New Immigration Law Published for Mexico – The Article

515 Responses to New Immigration Law Published for Mexico – The Article

1. Pingback: New Mexican Immigration Law Signed - Playa del Carmen, Mexico forum

2. Alan from Mérida says:

   May 30, 2011 at 1:58 pm

   Thanks, Steve. Yours is one of the first, if not the first, serious look at how the new Mexican immigration law applies to the expatriate community. All the many press reports that I have seen to date (5/30/2011) have addressed aspects of the law’s great steps forward in handling current illegal immigration to Mexico, but have made no reference to the simplification of processes applying to us folks.

   First, a general comment on the new law and its apparent change to the current rentista category of FM2. That category has meant, in practical terms, primarily someone living off foreign-sourced income who looks forward to being eligible to qualify for immigrant status upon completing x number of FM2 renewals (where x depends is 4 or as little as 2 if married to a Mexican national). So now, as an FM2 Rentista, will I and the many like me be reclassified as a temporary resident, as opposed to someone with a working FM2 category, who will be considered a “permanent resident”?

   That is not necessarily how I read the new law. First of all, I do not see any provision in Temporary Resident being applicable to me. As an FM2 rentista I see my logical reclassification to be a Permanent resident, per Chapter 2, Article 54, Section IX.III:

   “III. Que sean jubilados o pensionados que perciban de un gobierno extranjero o de organismos internacionales o de empresas particulares por servicios prestados en el exterior, un ingreso que les permita vivir en el país;”

   Or, “III. Who are retired or pensioned and receiving, from a foreign government, international organization, or private business, financial support for services rendered outside Mexico, an income which permits them to live in the country.”

   Article 52, VII, “Residentes temporal” (Temporary residents) simply has no appropriate category for pensioned expats.

   However, Steve does point to a reading of the Transition implementation clause that would dump all of the retired and pensioned folks, etc., who have been categorized in the newly “old” FM2 status, nilly willy into the Temporary resident category. Sorry, but if that is what the law means, I see it as self-contradictory. It leaves me and other FM2 rentistas up in the air.

   ————–
   Let me turn now to consider the meaning of “rentista,” as “financier” in the translation Steve provides of V is misleading. Also, I offer a substitute understanding of “caracteristicas” in this legal context.

   But first let me repeat that clauses following Article 162 addresses transitory matters, that is, immediate implementation issues.

   Let’s take a closer look at the translation provided in Steve’s very useful summary, which, however, could use (as he as requested) tweaking.

   “V. Foreigners who have obtained the immigration status of “Inmigrante” (old FM2), who meet the characteristics “Rentista” (financier), investor, professional position of trust, scientific, technical, family, artist, sports athelete or similar, be equated to Temporary Resident status. Note that Inmigrante Rentista, Inmigrante Cientifico, etc have special legal meanings as, typically people who are not working, or are working as unpaid professionals.”

   May I suggest that financier does not capture the meaning of “rentista”? Indeed, I can not think of a single English word that captures this Mexican immigration law category (as in Section 48 of the 1974 General Law of Population). (Yes, I know, online dictionaries do offer up “financier” as one meaning.)

   Looking at Mexican legal precedent, a review of the 1974 law’s categories describes rentista as follows:

   “a) Rentista: Son las personas que deciden ingresas a nuestro país para vivir de sus recursos traídos del extranjero, los intereses que produzca la inversión de su capital en certificados, títulos y bonos del estado o de las instituciones de crédito nacionales u otras que determine la Secretaría de Gobernación, dicha Secretaría podrá autorizarlos para que presten servicios como profesores, científicos o investigadores cuando estime que dichas actividades son benéficas para el país.

   “El artículo 101 del reglamento señala que su ingreso mensual no podrá ser inferior a 400 días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal.”
   http://html.rincondelvago.com/extranjeros-en-mexico.html (see: section 2.7.B.a).

   I think we are stuck with translating the term as meaning “one who lives off foreign-sourced income as well as certain Interior Ministry-authorized experts .”

   Between “professional” and “person of trust” there should be a comma. Note that a foreign professional needs to a credential issued by the Ministry of Education upon that Ministry’s recognition of the professional’s foreign credentials. As for a scientists, unlike a “rentista” who is a scientist, a scientist in that proper category is required to teach at least three Mexican nationals.

   Here’s my alternative reading:

   “V. Foreigners who have obtained the immigration status of “Inmigrante” (old FM2), who meet the following qualifications: “Rentista” — one living off foreign-sourced income or an Interior Ministry-authorized expert, investor, professional with a credential issued by the Ministry of Education, position of trust, scientist who teaches at least three Mexican nationals, technical expert, family member of an otherwise qualified FM2 holder, artist, sports athlete or similar, be equated to Temporary Resident status.” [The note that followed is Steve’s, not in the Law.]

   “V” above is listed under the Transition items (following Art. 162), as category or item SEXTO.V.” To me, on the face of it, it contradicts an element of the Permanent resident category, per Chapter 2, Article 52, Section IX.III (cited by me previously).

   — Alan from Mérida

   Reply
   • yucalandia says:

     May 30, 2011 at 2:09 pm

     Hi Alan,
     Yes, our current reading of the law specifically identifies FM2-Rentista / ” Inmigrante Rentista” as Temporary Residents under the new law, because INM uses common Spanish words in legally-defined ways that are different from their traditional every-day meanings. “Profesional Cientifico” and “Inmigrante Cientifico” have very different legal meanings to INM than they do in every-day usage. Both of these INM terms mean that this person cannot be remunerated (no pay) for their work under this category, while every-day Spanish would clearly mean that a professional (by definition) is one who is paid = the opposite of an amateur.

     In “Government-Speak”, up is down, peace is war, war is peace, and yesterday’s firiends are today’s enemies.

     One Mex. Gob. “pulse-point” that we might monitor for future clarifications and proof of promulgation of the new Regulaciones is . When INM updates these glossary pages to reflect the new law’s requirements and terminology, we’ll know for sure what “Residente Temporara; ” and “Residente Permanent” finally mean.
     Good Stuff !
     steve

     Reply
     • Alan from Mérida says:

       May 30, 2011 at 2:17 pm

       Uh huh, okay. But then what is jubliado/pensionado in the Permanent resident category, per Chapter 2, Article 52, Section IX.III, if not rentistas — chopped liver?
     • yucalandia says:

       May 30, 2011 at 2:35 pm

       Alan,
       Good intention, but there is no Article 52. Sec. IX, III. …. Sec IX has no sub-category “III”.

       There is a sub-category “III” to Article 54 (listed on the same page as Article 52 Sec. IX):
       “Artículo 54. Se otorgará la condición de residente permanente al extranjero que se ubique en cualquiera de los siguientes supuestos: . . .
       …
       III. Que sean jubilados o pensionados que perciban de un gobierno extranjero o de organismos internacionales o de empresas particulares por servicios prestados en el exterior, un ingreso que les permita vivir en el país; ”

       This addresses:
       “Who are retirees or pensioners who are entitled to a foreign government or international agencies or private companies for services rendered abroad, an income that allows them to live in the country;

       This could be interpreted as people and retirees who have “pensions”, receiving regular pension income payments, but not all “Inmigrante Rentistes” are pensioners under this interpretation. Which would mean that the pensioner type of “Inmigrante Rentista” could be elegible for Permanent Residency under the new law.
       steve
   • wanda says:

     August 2, 2011 at 4:57 pm

     my name is wanda and i would like to know that in sept i renew my fm2 status that i have obtained for almost 4 years.I am married to a mexican for the past 30 years and have been registed civil for those 5 years will i be able to obtain permenant residency this year.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 2, 2011 at 5:12 pm

       wanda,
       In theory, yes, you will be eligible for Permanent Residency. You are also eligible to apply for Mex. citizenship – and then carry 2 passports. Will the new regulations be written by then? There is no news on this point.
       steve
     • mexicomystic says:

       December 21, 2011 at 10:51 pm

       As Steve said… Wanda is eligible for Mexican Citizenship…. and she should go for it . I{m married to a Mexican National (42 years), we were married in Puebla so I didnt need an Apostille for that… I had to get a current copy of my birth certificate (with an Apostille from the State where your Birth Certificate came from) … it has to be a copy dated two years or less, the same for the spouses birth certificate and marriage license.
       I’ve been working as a translator/ intrepreter for the last six years… had to have an FM3 for 3 years, an FM2 for two years and then apply for the Acta de Naturalization…. note theres a catch 22 here… you have to have an FM2 that is at least 6 months away from expiring…this means your going to have to have another year on this immigration paper…
       You’ll have to have 2 criminal background checks…one from the state and another Federal. It will take about 6 months to process this paperwork…. once you get it you will have to sign a paper saying you renounce any other citizenship… dont let this scare you… it’s just a technicallity so if you get in a legal situation you won’t start screaming..Ï’m an American Citizen… they will let you keep your American passport. If you go to the States you are a Mexican until you cross the Rio Grande…then show your American passport. Coming back it works in reverse… welcome to the life of a Duall National Amigo.
       P. P.S. The USA gave me more headaches about papers than the Mexican side did…. I’m from Georgia and had to deal with redneck hillbillies who have been brainwashed into believing there is a terrorist under every rock. I took me a couple of dozen phone calls before I found someone without brain damage to send my papers to me.
   • Richard Bates Newton says:

     April 9, 2013 at 2:27 pm

     Just to add a personal update I want to tell you that today I received my RESIDENTE PERMANENTE card from INM here in Mérida. I had had an FM3 for 3 years and was half way through the third year of my FM2 (these totaled 5 1/2 years) and the years of my FM3 DID COUNT towards attaining my status as RESIDENTE PERMANENTE. The only thing that the INM checked was to make sure that I had never let either my FM3 or my FM2 lapse, in essence that I had never been late in renewing them.
     So, it my be different in other places in México; but, here in Mérida the years of my FM3 definitely counted.
     RBNMEX

     Reply
3. Alan from Mérida says:

   May 30, 2011 at 2:13 pm

   I just want now to touch on two separate matters, the point system and the “what happens now” question.

   First, as for the point system for applicants seeking permanent immigrant status faster than otherwise provided for, the eighth item among the Transitory or Transistional clauses grant Gobernacion (Interior Ministry) 180 days to issue implementing regulations, 180 days from the May 25, 2011 publication of the Law in the Official Daily.

   Second point, the ninth such clause reads,
   “NOVENO. Los trámites migratorios que se encuentren en proceso o pendientes de resolución a la fecha de entrada en vigor de la Ley de Migración, deberán concluirse de conformidad con las disposiciones vigentes al momento en que se iniciaron.”

   Which I render as:

   “NINTH. Immigration applications that are in process or pending resolution upon the effective date of the Migration Law [that is, May 25, 2011] will be resolved in conformity with the legal provisions current at the time the applications were initiated.”

   Technically, my reading says if you go in to start a new application after May 25, you are under the new system. And I bet INM is not ready to implement that! As for renewals initiated after May 25, perhaps they could be interpreted as “pending resolution” though technically I would consider them to be under the terms of the new law.

   Reply
4. Alan from Mérida says:

   May 30, 2011 at 3:28 pm

   Err… I copied the wrong reference, yes, of course, the section I was referring to in my May 30th 2:17pm query was from Art. 54, Sec. IX.III. And, in fact, in my original submission, I had quoted what you cite in your 2:35 pm reply.

   Anyhow… will be fun to see what regulations Interior comes up with, and when they will be issued, that will govern what we encounter at our local friendly INM office.

   Reply
5. Mary Ann Waite says:

   May 30, 2011 at 3:56 pm

   My husband & I dropped off all of our paperwork at INM to obtain a new FM-2 on Wed. May 25th. We already completed 5 years on our FM-3. We still need to pay our fees and have pictures taken. Now with the new law can we change back to starting over on an FM-3? We would save $2000 pesos by not getting an FM-2.
   Mary Ann in Ajijic

   Reply
   • yucalandia says:

     May 30, 2011 at 5:41 pm

     A few observations:

     Your application was filed right on the day when the new law was officially published in the Diario Oficial, which in theory would mean that you are locked into your Inmigrante change of status application.

     The new law clearly has NO FM2 nor does it have “No Inmigrante” (old FM3) nor “Ïnmigrante” categories. The 2 categories that could fit your situation in the future are Temporary Resident and Pernanent Resident.

     Some immigration people think that your prior 4 years as an FM3 and 1 year as a “No Inmigrante” would meet the new Permanent Resident requirements for 4 prior years as a Temporary Resident. It seems that you applied just 1 day too early** to qualify for the new system, so you are locked in as an Inmigrante applicant, unless INM allows you to abandon your current Inmigrado application, and allows you to refile under one of the 2 new categories, preferably as a Permanent Resident.

     Maybe an Immigration attorney who knows the new law and who also has contacts inside your local INM office can help? Or if your Spanish is solid, head over to your INM office and ask how they would handle things if you abandon your current application for change in status to Inmigrante, and then re-file an application for Residente Permanente under the new Transitorio regs. If that works, you would only pay one fee this year for Permanent Residency status. (?)

     As we suspected, things will get messy for some people caught during the transition period.
     steve

     **Sometimes the “early bird” truly does get worms.

     Reply
6. Howard Feldstein says:

   May 31, 2011 at 10:00 am

   I’m about to file for my 2nd renewal (third year) of my Inmigrante (FM2) status. Previously I held an FM3 for 5 years. I have submitted my request online to Extender la estancia, Refrendo de Inmigrante, but haven’t yet appeared in the INM office to begin the process. Should I or can I refile in a different way to apply for Residente Permanente at this time?

   Reply
   • yucalandia says:

     May 31, 2011 at 4:58 pm

     Hi Howard,
     Great question.
     Under the old regulations, as long as you re-enter the country within 60 days of the expiration and then renewed within 30 days of your re-entry to the country, then it all works fine.

     If you are worried that Mexican Immigration at the airport might hold you up, you could print page 11 from:
     ,

     This is the current Immigration Manual, published on August 9, 2010, Diario Oficial, and Section 6.3 covers your situation:

     6.3 If the foreigner is outside of the country at the expiration of their FM3 or FM2, they can solicit their renewal or referendum, whichever applies, within 30 days following their re-entrance, as long as they have not been absent from the country more time than the law allows.

     6.3.1 In the case of the FM3 the absence cannot exceed the period signaled in the General Population Law or sixty days after its expiration.

     This approach works fine, if you currently have the type of status that will get you what you want under the new Immigration law. If you want a status that gets you specifically into either Permanent or Temporary Residency status, you might want to file for your preferred status now (before the trip), and request a Permiso de Salida y Regreso from INM to leave the country. Applying now undder the old regs might give you the ultimate status you want, or you may want to wait until you return to apply under the bright & shiney new system? We don’t know enough about your personal circumstances and preferences to say which is best.
     steve

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       June 1, 2011 at 8:33 pm

       Howard Feldstien wrote:

       Steve,

       Thanks for the detailed reply. Good information. I stopped into the local INM office today and they confirmed that I can wait until I get back to renew my FM2 inmigrante status, but didn’t seem to know much about the new Temporary or Permanent Resident status, which is not surprising. I guess I don’t see how I could file for Permanent Residency now if they don’t know anything about it yet. There isn’t such a choice on their online form. Any suggestions about how to file for that? I thought that when I return they may know more about those new stati(?) and I could thus apply then.

       Howard
     • yucalandia says:

       June 1, 2011 at 8:40 pm

       Howard,
       You can’t file for the new Permanent Residency category yet, because INM offices have not trained their employees yet. They have up to 6 months to implement the changes, but they can act under the Transitorios section if they choose to. You can read Mexconnect – last entry on the thread – to see how a good choice today under the old system may or can lead to the status you prefer under the new law (next year?) if you file before your trip under the current system; see http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=164825;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;page=last;guest=38098334#last YucaLandia’s last post.

       Are you a working FM2 inmigrante? It appears that they will be assigned as Permanent Residents under the new law, which means if you filed now, you would be given Permanent Resident status with next years filing = paying twice (this year and next year). If you wait until you return from the trip before filing, your local INM office may have begun implementing the new system, giving you Permanent Resident status this year = only one payment….

       Are you a non-working (no lucrativa) FM2 Inmigrante? Rentista? (a category that lets you keep your foreign-plated vehicle now). If you want to keep the vehicle, take a route that leads to Temporary Residency for the best chance of keeping the car, though INM has not published anything official on this, but the current categories that allow foreign-plated vehicles now, are assigned to Temporary Residency under the current readings of the new law.

       If you have 4 years of FM2 or FM3 completed, then if you can wait until INM starts the new procedures, you could likely get Permanent Residency for a single payment this year.

       If you are the husband of Mexican Citizen, there’s just a 2 year requirement for Permanent Residency… So, waiting to file until after you return could save you a payment.

       It’s all good, but you haven’t supplied enough personal information to sort out what category best fits your needs, desires, and possibilities.

       Gotta love Governments, just when we figure things out, they change the rules,
       steve
7. Howard Feldstein says:

   May 31, 2011 at 5:33 pm

   My current credencial expires on July 3rd, but I’ll be out of the country then, not returning until July 20th. I’m wondering if I can use the 60 day grace period for renewal if I’m out of the country. I leave on June 10th, 1 week into the 30 day renewal window. Any advice?

   Reply

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9. Gary in Florida says:

   June 1, 2011 at 3:23 pm

   I am moving to Merida at the end of July and shipping household goods. Will I still be able to apply for FM2/FM3 (whatever they are going to call it now) and get my visa so that I can get my household goods out of customs? This could present major problems for me.

   Reply
10. Suman says:

    June 7, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Is there a way that FMM can be converted to FM3 while I am in Mexico with FMM.

    Please let me know ASAP.

    Thanks,
    Suman

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      June 8, 2011 at 8:47 am

      Suman,
      Yes, go online and register with INM at the link and follow the instructions provided in https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/moving-to-mexico-fmm-fm2-or-fm3/ (INM link = http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php/page/Solicitud_de_Estancia ).

      After filling out the on-line application, you will be given a Pieza number – record it – and then accept the print option to print your personal information registered with INM – because the INM goes faster and smoother if you bring in that printed sheet with you. Take the sheet, your passport, pieza number, 3 months of bank statements, comprabante, etc into your INM office, and register your application to get the process started. Write back to tell us how it goes.
      Best of Luck,
      steve

      Reply
11. Annie says:

    June 15, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    I’m confused and in Year 1 of a FM3 Rentista issued in Jan 2011 of this year. Laminated card not the green booklet. Does any know how many days I am allowed out of the country in the 4 year period? I was told by the Consulate it was multipe entry but no info about time periods. Now I hear it’s only 180 days allowed out in the time. My father is sick and I have to keep coming and going. What to do?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      June 17, 2011 at 7:26 pm

      There are no limits to how long you can be out of the country on an FM3/No Inmigrante, other than being back in time for renewal. The FM2/Inmigrante has restrictions on how long you can be out of the country, but since FM2’s are going away in a few months, even that restriction appears to be going by the wayside before the end of this year.

      Reply
12. zena says:

    June 22, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    I am a FM3 holder under the old old regulations,I have to renew before November 11/11. When I renew I want to make it a working FM3 and have my CURP # to do so, does any of these new regulations apply to me?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      June 22, 2011 at 6:53 pm

      Since you do not renew until November, INM will likely be using the rules of the New Law, which means no more FM3 (No Inmigrante). The closest category in the New Law would seem to be Residente Temporal. Take a look above at the characteristics of “Residente Temporal” and see what you think.

      I just now read the first report on the internet about INM beginning to implement the New Law. The report from Mexconnect says:
      “…a top immigration lawyer (says) that it is true that we can no longer change our “tourist” to “working” without leaving the country.

      This shows that INM is beginning partial implementation of the New Law now, and that FM3 category will likely not exist by November.
      steve

      steve

      Reply
13. Cap Sparling says:

    June 22, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    Hi and thanks for all this information. I did not see the issue of those who are working towards citizenship which could be granted after 5 years on an FM2. Did that change?

    Thanks

    Cap Sparling

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      June 22, 2011 at 7:00 pm

      Cap,
      In our reading and re-reading of the New Law, we did not see any specifications describing changes in the path to citizenship. The New Law does specify that the old Inmigrado status will be Residente Permanente, which might be an option for you, but Residente Permanente does not have the same rights as a citizen, e.g. you would still be liable to have a fidei comiso for property within the 50 km zone.

      Since Mexican Citizenship applications are controlled by SRE, not INM, I think the “old” rules on official residency requirements still apply to qualify for citizenship. (5 years for typical ex-pats and 2 years for spouses of Mexican Citizens. This may be a good item for SRE &/or INM to clarify or by a reliable knowledgeable attorney as the implementation of the upcoming El Reglamento evolves. We mention “reliable” because we have reading information printed by some local Yucatecan “immigration” attorneys who have not read nor understood key parts of the New Law affecting ex-pats, so, things seem a bit up in the air right now.
      Yet another item to be clarified and worked out in the upcoming Regulations.

      If you choose Residente Permanente in the meantime and the old Inmigrado requirements & rights are carried over into the new Residente Permanente, it is worth noting that Inmigrados are prohibited from operating brothels or bars…
      steve

      Reply
14. Conzag says:

    June 22, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    The English word “rentier” seems to translate “rentista” rather well. It refers to someone who lives off investments, etc.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      June 23, 2011 at 8:47 am

      Conzag,
      Good point.
      When describing and using INM clauses, we’ve chosen to insert the Spanish legal terminology that INM specifically uses, since the Spanish legal terms often have more specific and important meanings than their generic English translations. e.g. Substituting “Immigrant” (a perfectly good English word) into translations of INM Regulations gives tons of confusion between Inmigrante, Inmigrado, and No Inmigrante. Since Yucalandia’s typical reader is an ex-pat interested in staying in Mexico for more than a weekend, they usually have at least a passing interest in using and leaning Spanish, so, using the proper Spanish legal terminology maintains accuracy and clarity without confusing people.
      steve

      Reply
15. Sharyn Bates says:

    June 23, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Very valuable information, thank you.

    Reply

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17. Anthony says:

    June 24, 2011 at 7:29 am

    Thank you all for valuable information and am signing up right now to be kept advised. Had previously been told that we would have to go to Mex City for confirmation of no criminal record in application for citizenship. Any news on this?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      June 25, 2011 at 7:30 am

      Hey Anthony,
      How long ago had you been told you have to get a clean bill of health from the police? The last time we heard that this requirement was used, was over 4 years ago. Did you hear this from an ex-pat or from a Mex. Gob. official?
      steve

      Reply
      • Anthony says:

        June 25, 2011 at 12:13 pm

        Hi Steve
        This was from official at SRE, Tepic (we live Nayarit), he said we had to go to Tepic first Proc. Justico de l’estado de Nayarit and then also to Sec. Publica Federal, Mex City. This was November 2010, and the first any of us have heard of this procedure.
      • yucalandia says:

        June 25, 2011 at 7:57 pm

        Anthony,
        Wow….

        We haven’t heard of this requirement from other States, but the experiences we’ve heard about were in dealing with INM, Immigration laws, and Immigration regulations. SRE governs citizenship/naturalization requirements, which are separate from INM requirements, and are not part of the New Immigration Law.

        Are you applying for citizenship?
        steve
      • mexicomysticBob Cox says:

        August 16, 2011 at 12:24 pm

        Steve… Im applying for Naturalization and I had to get a local & a Federal background check ‘. Had to go to Mexico City for the Federal, Check adress on websearch…get there early. so you wont have to be another day. Theres an expiration date of 30 days Federal and 15 Local…
      • mexicomystic says:

        January 14, 2012 at 9:59 pm

        Anthony… I just got my Acta de Naturalization… I had to go to Mexico City for a Criminal Background Check This was the Federal Background Check), then a State Background Check also.
18. Anthony says:

    June 28, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    Yes, have had FM3 for 9 years and FM2 for 2 years this Oct. Will need house & pet sitter if have to go to Mex. and will do so Feb after wife has got her old age pass & go by bus. am told over 60 don’t need take test, just be able to speak Spanish. True?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      June 28, 2011 at 5:53 pm

      Anthony,
      I don’t know. It would be great if you could give us a reference for the “over 60” exemption to taking the citizenship test. I have a close friend in his 70’s who is also married to a Mexicana, and he has been studying for the test. He’d be tickled pink to be able to only have to pass a Spanish speaking competency evaluation.
      steve

      Reply
      • Anthony says:

        June 30, 2011 at 1:07 pm

        Sorry for delay been doing research!! Let “tickled pink” (good ol Brit phrase!) be the order of the day… First off credit to bajainsider.com and rolleybrook.com, check them out. Then on to my research sre.gob.mx find where nationalisation laws are, dated 17 June 09, go to Capitulo III Art 15, 2nd par: ” personas mayores de sesente anos sera sufficiente que acrediten saber hablar espanol”. As your friend is married to Mexicana he should have no problema on this. Experience of neighbour indicates very basic knowledge, ie greetings, counting, general conversation. Frankly I believe anybody applying for citizenship should speak Spanish. From this site I answer another of my own Q, yes we need “not criminal record” from both Mex AND local Admin city, in our case, Tepic, based “upon where you live”. sheesh.
      • yucalandia says:

        June 30, 2011 at 7:53 pm

        Thanks!
        I passed the word along to the friend.
        steve
      • yucalandia says:

        June 30, 2011 at 8:08 pm

        For people who are unsure of Anthony’s comment on getting certified that applicants for citizenship have no criminal record:

        “¿Cómo obtener la constancia de Antecedentes no Penales Federal para el trámite de Naturalización?
        Respuesta: Le atenderá la Dirección de Normatividad y Control de la SPF, Órgano Administrativo Desconcentrado de la Secretaría de Seguridad Pública Federal que se encuentra ubicada en la Calle de Xola Nº 324 1er piso, Colonia del Valle, Delegación Benito Juárez, C P 03100, México, D F, Teléfono 56 82 94 94, extensión 606 y/o 607, de lunes a viernes. Entre División del Norte y Coyoacan.”
        http://www.sre.gob.mx/index.php/tramites-y-servicios/nacionalidad-y-naturalizacion

        English Google Translation:
        How to get the record federal criminal background check for the processing of Naturalization?

        Answer: We will respond to the Directorate of Standardization and Control of the SPF, Detached Administrative Office of the Secretary of Federal Public Security which is located on Calle Xola No. 324 1st Floor, Colonia del Valle, Delegación Benito Juárez, CP 03100, Mexico City, Phone 56 82 94 94, extension 606 and / or 607, Monday through Friday. Among the Northern Division and Coyoacan.

        Check out the SRE website and INM for further information.

        Click to access Reg_LNac.pdf

        Thanks Anthony for the tips & solid info.
    • mexicomystic says:

      January 14, 2012 at 10:02 pm

      If you’re over 6o you’re exempt from the test.

      Reply
19. Dan Swisher says:

    June 30, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Rentier in English is directly from the French word and means a person of independent means, (that presumably lives off them). That would certainly cover those of us who have been living off our US retirement funds.

    Reply
20. NORM & SUE PAUL says:

    July 2, 2011 at 8:26 am

    We need some help !!! We have a house in La paz, have had this place for six years … We did not get back to renew our fm-3 it can due in april. We has some family problems to take care of & did not go to La paz this winter ..Now we need to try to renew all the paper work & are not sure what we should do ???
    Thank for any help.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      July 2, 2011 at 1:57 pm

      Norm & Sue,
      When do you intend to return to Mexico? Do you have a foreign-plated car registered under your old FM3 visa?

      If you do not have a foreign-plated car registered under your old expired FM3, then you could simply apply for a new FM3 (currently called “No Inmigrante” visa). New FM3’s require more documentation and take a little more time than renewing an existing FM3. If you are returning to Mexico later than the next 4 months *or so?), INM could have you apply for the new “Residente Temporal” under the new law, but INM is not saying when they will begin implementing the new law. Realize that if INM begins implementing the new law by then, and you enter under a visitor’s visa, you will not be allowed to change residency status from visitor to Residente Temporal or Permanente without leaving Mexico first (as currently described in the new law). This means that it would be good for you to find out which law INM is using, just before your re-entry into Mexico: the old pre-May 25, 2011 law or the new law.
      steve

      Reply
21. NORM & SUE PAUL says:

    July 3, 2011 at 8:54 am

    Steve;;
    Thank you very much,We are going to la paz in late October, pay our property tax & work on the yard.I am 68 & should not have any trouble getting citizenship? We have a blazer there with Mexico plates & I have a truck drivers license. Just need to know how to get all this going again ???
    So we need to have a visitors visa to cross the border & go on to la paz & try to get all this done !!
    If there is any more info for us please let us know, we have a gal there that can help us , But with all the new laws it will be a hard time to get all this taken care of .. Thanks ~~ Norm & Sue

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      July 3, 2011 at 9:30 am

      Norm & Sue,
      I’m not communicating well today.

      “Thank you very much,We are going to la paz in late October, pay our property tax & work on the yard.I am 68 & should not have any trouble getting citizenship? “

      I think you do not qualify for citizenship yet. You said you have had an FM3 visa, which does not qualify you for citizenship. 4 years of FM2/Inmigrante status is needed for typical ex-pats to qualify, or 2 years of FM2 as the spouse of a Mexican.

      “We have a blazer there with Mexico plates & I have a truck drivers license. Just need to know how to get all this going again ???”

      Since the Blazer has Mexican plates, it is fine to re-apply for a NEW FM3 (or “Residente Temporal” if INM has kicked-off the New Law).

      “So we need to have a visitors visa to cross the border & go on to la paz & try to get all this done !!”

      Here’s another bogey in our communication: Under the New Law, if you enter under a Visitor Visa (Visitante), then as a Visitante, you can NOT apply to change status while in Mexico, You must leave Mexico to apply for “Residente Temporal“. If INM is using the Old Law when you re-enter, then you can use a Visitor Visa and then apply to change residency status.
      steve
      –

      Reply
22. Bill says:

    July 4, 2011 at 3:15 pm

    Hi-

    I’ve been renewing my FM3 annually solely so I can keep my US-plated vehicle in Mexico. We are in the Puerto Vallarta area about 3-4 months each year. I am not worried about obtaining official residency status to exempt myself from capital gains tax on our property, mostly because I have no intention to sell anytime soon, and probably wouldn’t have much in gains anyway. Having to apply for and renew the FM3 or whatever it’s called now is becoming a lot of hassle and money. In April 2011 I got my new “No Immigrante” laminated card, which I understand must be renewed every year. My car is a 1997 Nissan Pathfinder that was originally built in Japan. I’ve heard many different answers to the question of “can I nationalize my car?” So with all the mess going on with Visas, if I nationalized my car so it had Mexican plates, I could just go back to having a regular tourist visa and not mess with all the other stuff. Is it possible to nationalize it, without driving it back out again first, and are they any disadvantages to doing so? Thanks,

    Bill

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      July 5, 2011 at 12:01 am

      Bill,
      Unfortunately, I think that (nationalizing) ship never left the dock. Ex-pats with FM3’s/No Inmigrante status and FM2 Rentistas are allowed to keep one foreign-plated vehicle here, but you can only nationalize them when they are exactly 10 years old, and ONLY if they are NAFTA made vehicles (ruling out your Japanese made Nissan). There are rumors that the “10 year” part of the law./rule may be changed in the future, but for now, you can either update your No Inmigrante status yearly, or take the vehicle out of Mexico.
      steve

      Reply
      • Bill says:

        July 5, 2011 at 5:40 am

        Steve-

        That’s kind of what I had always thought was the official answer too. Even if they drop the 10 year rule, chances are since my vehicle was made in Japan it’ll never be allowed to be imported. Thanks for your prompt reply.
23. Bill Semeyn says:

    July 5, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    Wow….sure is deep stuff. Lawyers will have a field day no doubt until things sort out. Can an investor be considered as an FM-2 rentista or is that separate?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      July 6, 2011 at 7:27 am

      Bill,
      FM2’s won’t exist under the new law. The law has a potential internal conflict on the rentista issue: Rentistas who receive pension income qualify for Residente Permanente status, while under the Transitorios (Transition rules), Rentistas shall generally be categorized as Residente Temporal.

      If you are asking about the old law (still being used until they shift to the new law), Yucalandia’s “Moving to Mexico: FMM, FM2, or FM3?” article describes the income/savings requirements for meeting FM2 Rentista requirements. https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/moving-to-mexico-fmm-fm2-or-fm3/

      “…

      Proof that you have sufficient income to support yourself

      (and any dependents). (Some INM offices are requiring this, others: not.) This could be 3 months of bank or investment account statements, with your name on them, showing balances equivalent to 250 times (FM3) or 400 times (FM2) the official minimum wage in Yucatan ( $56.7 pesos/day for Zone C). SALARIOS MINIMOS This translates to 2011 minimum monthly income requirements for a single person: FM3 = $14,175 pesos & FM2 = $22,680 pesos. At current $11.80 MXN/USD exchange rates, it converts to $1,200 USD per month for an FM3, and $1,920 USD per month for an FM2. Each additional dependent increases the requirement by 50%. Some INM offices are approving reducing the financial requirements by ½ for FM2 applicants and their dependents, if you can show proof of home ownership in México (fideicomiso), but acceptance of this expemption is not univerally approved. (Remember, “TIM”: “This is México.”)”

      Reply
24. Charles Burnside says:

    July 9, 2011 at 5:34 am

    If we do not work in MX what reason is there to change from an FM3 (Residente Temporal to an FM2 (residente Permanente)?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      July 9, 2011 at 6:49 pm

      Charles,
      FM2 / Inmigrante / Residente Permanente offer several differences and benefits.

      The differences between FM2’s and FM3’s under the old law are described in “Moving to Mexico: FMM, FM2, or FM3?”/. The differences between Residente Temporal and Residente Permanente under the new law are not yet fully determined. At a minimum, Residente Temporal is required to renew and pay for their visa every year and Residente Permanente only has to apply once and pay once. Residente Permanente also allows the holder to apply for citizenship and its benefits. Other differences will be known only after INM releases the El Reglamento (new regulations) based on the new law.
      steve

      Reply

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26. wanda says:

    August 3, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Thank You for the respose and also what would be the benifit of mex.citizenship would i not have to give up us and my retirement.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      August 4, 2011 at 8:29 pm

      Wanda,
      As long as your intent is to get Mexican citizenship and a Mexican passport, then the US Government is fine with American citizens carrying 2 passports and still receiving benefits. You use your Mexican passport to enter Mexico, and you use your US passport to enter the USA. As long as you do not file with the US Govt. to renounce your US citizenship, then it works fine. You might note that as a Mexican Citizen you are given all rights, but if you are then arrested in Mexico, then you are treated as a Mexican, with no protection or aid from the US consulate. The US Consuls typically provide no more aid than to provide contact information for an Mexican attorney, so, the actual ¨protection¨ you lose is practically fairly minor.
      steve

      Reply
27. Don Cuevas says:

    August 12, 2011 at 2:03 am

    Steve, I came here by way of your intelligent posts on Mexconnect. I appreciate your intensive research and non speculative approach to these topics. It’s very refreshing.

    I am adding your blog to my Blogger Dashboard Reading List.

    Many thanks.

    Don Cuevas (AKA Anonimo)

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      August 12, 2011 at 7:54 am

      Don Cuevas,
      I too enjoy your Mexconnect posts.

      Thanks for the props. We try hard to stick to the facts here, with just enough prose to keep it interesting.

      I’m off check out your blog.
      steve

      Reply
28. Anthony says:

    August 19, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    3rd attempt to post…Q for MexmysticBob 16 Aug: what do you mean by expiration date Federal 30 days, local 15 days? Do you need to go to local first? What paperwork necessary there and Mex City? What fee? Thanks!

    Reply
29. Imigration says:

    August 20, 2011 at 1:31 am

    While the US government grapples with immigration reform and some states ramp up their anti-immigration laws, crossing the border from Mexico into the United States has become an extensive process. However, the added security has created an unexpected result. According to the New York Times, people crossing the border from the US into Mexico also face similar scrutiny.

    Reply

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31. wguru2 says:

    September 8, 2011 at 12:59 am

    I’m sure the effort afforded as well as the shared information are helpful to those who have been ‘in the system’, but sadly I saw too little (if any at all) plain English with respect to new law and those considering retiring to Mexico; eg; links to 200 words or less explaining where to start and what the law requires for US citizens to say, move to Mexico and expect to stay there.

    Reply
32. wguru2 says:

    September 8, 2011 at 1:03 am

    Seems someone should post this…http://rollybrook.com/how_to_move_to_mexico.htm#visa

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      September 8, 2011 at 8:30 am

      wguru2,
      Fortunately, the web is a big place, with plenty of room for all. Rolly Brook has offered very good information over the years. His style is different from ours, and there are a very few issues where he takes a different opinion from ours. Rolly Brook posts information from many many sources around Mexico, making him a valuable resource. Rolly also publishes books on these things, which has caused him to occasionally shift focus away from keeping his website updated, which prompted us to start Yucalandia during one of the periods that he was busy writing, publishing, and marketing a book on moving to Mexico. Unfortunately, the Mexican government has been frequently changing the laws affecting expats, which can make information published in hard-copy books on Mexico out of date, not long after being published. We understand that Rolly has had a new book in the works, and that he just is waiting for INM to publish their new Regulations before he goes to press with the changes. Overall: Rolly has a good site !
      steve

      Reply
33. Meir Gershenson says:

    October 2, 2011 at 8:27 am

    I intend to retire soon in Merida. I usually enter Mexico on tourist visa. My wife, Mexican own a house in Mrida and we hold a car which I have to transfer every six month to Belize and back. I intend to bring a second car when I move. What are my options.
    Meir

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      October 2, 2011 at 8:06 pm

      Hi Meir,
      Are you living in Merida or Mexico now? If you change to a No Inmigrante/FM3 RENTISTA visa or an Inmigrante/FM2 RENTISTA visa soon, then you can transfer the Temporary Import on one vehicle over from your current Tourist/Visitor visa onto your new FM3 or FM2.** If you do not apply for an FM2 or FM3 soon, INM will be changing the immigration rules and categories over to a new system on or before Nov. 25.

      If you choose to wait, the new immigration system will have different categories, replacing the old Inmigrante, FM2, FM3, & Inmigrado, with either the new Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente categories. None of us know the new rules for Temporary Import permit cars under the new system.

      If you file for No Inmigrante RENTISTA status (now) before the rule change, you would have at least one year of no traveling to Belize (and possibly 5 years). Most experts expect that the new Residente Temporal will have some sub-category or exemption to allow Caracteristica: RENTISTA visa holder to keep one car here for 5 years under a Temporary Import permit from Aduana. (Rentista = rentier = someone who lives off their investments or pension, etc.).

      Alternative: If you choose to use your special status as the spouse of Mexican citizen to:
      1. get either Residente Permanente status under the new upcoming rules or
      2. become a naturalized Mexican citizen, holding both US and Mexican passports, then
      you might not be allowed to to keep a foreign-plated car here under a Temporary Import permit. That might force you to take the vehicle(s) to Belize to be sold.

      You or your wife could also choose to get a Permanent Import permit on one vehicle per person, (nationalizing it), if the vehicle is 10 years old (model years running from Nov.1 – Oct. 31 manufacturing date), or you could check out permanently importing the vehicles while paying heavy taxes = but most people find the taxes so high that it is cheaper to sell their foreign car outside Mexico, and buy vehicles here.
      steve

      ** The choice of FM2 vs FM3 is affected by various factors beyond the scope of a simple reply. Please see our article on FM2s and FM3s at: https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/moving-to-mexico-fmm-fm2-or-fm3/ . You might also want to read our article on the New Immigration Law at: https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/new-immigration-law-published-for-mexico-the-article/ . e.g. If you don’t want to have to go through 5 years of FM3 or 5 years of FM2, then as the spouse of a Mexican you have the right to apply for Mexican Citizenship after only 2 years of FM2 (Inmigrante).
      –

      Reply
      • Meir Gershenson says:

        September 4, 2012 at 3:23 pm

        Less than a year later: what a mess they added new polution control rule mid shipment. I had to ship the car back to the US.
      • yucalandia says:

        September 5, 2012 at 7:02 am

        Unfortunate…
34. devin chambers says:

    October 9, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    I have already resided in mexico for two years without a visa with my now wife who is a mexican citizen we have been married for a month now, now I would like to recieve a permanent residence status eventually becoming a mexican citizen aswell. Is it possible without having to be in mexico for another two years under the mexican marriage naturalization rules? any other information would help

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      October 10, 2011 at 6:51 am

      Devin,
      There are several basic requirements for naturalization as a spouse of Mexican citizen:
      – You need a marriage that is legally recognized by the Mexican Government. Were you legally married by your Registro Civil? …. Mexican church weddings are not legal, and are not recognized.
      – You need to complete 2 years as a No inmigrante Familiar spouse of Mexican citizen.

      Since you are currently an illegal alien, I am unsure of all of your options. You could leave Mexico and re-enter under a visitor’s visa. If your marriage is legal, then you could apply for a No inmigrante Familiar with INM. After 2 years as a No inmigrante Familiar , you could apply for naturalization.

      I mention the need for a legal marriage, because most Registro Civiles across Mexico require prior INM approval before they allow marriages. Since you are here without INM approval, it would seem that your marriage is also not legal? There’s a good thread on Mexconnect the naturalization process at: http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=169936;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread
      Give a shout back about how this works out,
      steve

      Reply
      • Woody says:

        May 26, 2012 at 10:21 pm

        I’m confused. I am married to a Mexican for 13 years and have 4 Mexican born kids (I brought them all to the states over 10 years ago). I currently have an FM3 which expires in Aug. of 2012 and go back and forth to the states. I want citizenship and a Mexican passport in the fastest, least expensive way possible but mostly the fastest.

        When I asked at the INM in San Luis Potosi last year at the time of obtaining the FM3 I was told 1) I must get an FM3 before I could get an FM2 and I had to have the FM2 for 5 years before I could ask to be nationalized. The woman handing out the papers would accept no other scenario.

        I am now coming up on time to renew. I think what the lady (bureaucrat) told me is a crock but I don’t know how to proceed. Here you indicate that I need to ask for “No Inmigrante Familiar” but elsewhere I understood that I should ask for “Inmigrante Fimaliar”. The latter because it is like the FM2 seems more likely to be correct to me though I would prefer that my time with the current FM3 would count toward the 2 years needed.

        Any help to clear this up would be appreciated as I would like to be armed with an understanding of the law the next time I encounter the lady at INM.

        Thanks in advance,
      • yucalandia says:

        May 27, 2012 at 11:34 pm

        Woody,
        You were sold a bum steer by your previous INM clerk – unless the San Luis Potosi office is not following the federal rules. The INM handbook describes that you can file for an “FM2” Inmigrante Familiar without ever having an FM3. Inmigrante Familiar holders who are legally married to Mexican citizens – which means a marriage registered and recognized by a Mexican Registro Civil – are allowed to apply for citizenship after completing 2 years of the Inmigrante Familiar . If your local INM counterperson does not agree with this rule, then I suggest talking with a supervisor, or hire a reliable known immigration attorney who knows how to work with your local INM office.
        All the best,
        steve
35. Pat says:

    October 18, 2011 at 11:29 am

    Are common law relationships between a mexican and non-mexican recognized in order to shorten the time period for obtaining naturalization? Is there any way of registering, in some official way, a common law relationship?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      October 18, 2011 at 11:51 am

      Pat,
      I think you are referring to an expat Concubina or Concubino who has lived with a Mexican citizen. We don’t know the specific documents or proofs that the Mexican govt. requires to prove the Concubina’s or Concubino’s status, but it is a specific category with special rights. Since the heads of each INM office have some discretion in their choices of what is needed to meet the INM law’s requirements, I think you should check with your local INM office to find out all their office’s requirements.
      steve

      Reply
36. Tina Michelle Palacios says:

    November 17, 2011 at 5:07 am

    please keep me informed of changes of marriage to Mexican citizens cause i want my residency in Mexico so i can be with the man i love there !

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 17, 2011 at 8:54 am

      Tina,
      Me too.
      Though mi cariña se llama Maria.
      steve

      Reply
37. Phillip Herring says:

    November 22, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    Your info is very useful to me. Many thanks.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 22, 2011 at 8:26 pm

      Phillip,
      Thank you for the kind words.
      steve

      Reply
38. Phillip Herring says:

    November 23, 2011 at 5:02 am

    Hi Steve,
    I lived in Mexico 2005-7 and had an FM3. It has now expired, of course. Since we are moving back next year I will need a new visa de residente. I am still confused about where one acquires the visa. My reading tells me that I should fill out the formato basico online (I have done this) and go to a Mexican consulate in the U.S. for the visa, then register it in the Mexican town where one takes residence. On the other hand, my friends in San Miguel take their FMM to INM and do it all there. The Mexican Consulate in Chicago has such a general form for rentista that I hesitate to apply there, because they are not using any of the new terminology for visas. They have a form in English that just says “if you want to retire in Mexico,” fill out this form. Who knows what category they would put you in. My wife of 50 years is Mexican, so I would seem to qualify for No Inmigrante Familiar, or Residente Permanente, or Residente Temporal. Can you help? Many thanks. Phil

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 23, 2011 at 9:08 am

      Phil,
      You can decide whether to start the INM process either here or there. Some INM agents propose that spouses of Mexicans apply for FM2/Inmigrante visas, because you qualify to apply for citizenship after just 2 years and you qualify for applying for Inmigrado after 4.

      All of these categories may soon go away, and the new categories of Residente Permanente or Residente Temporal when the new Reglamento de INM is issued. The head of INM announced that the Reglamento would be issued in late November. The 6 month limit for issuing the new Reglamento is due out in 2 days.
      steve

      Reply
39. anthonykruiser says:

    November 23, 2011 at 9:30 am

    There was an Immigration meeting here in Pto Vallarta last week. Basically all laws are the same, just drop FM3 use No Inmigrante, drop FM2, use Inmigrante. Once held Inmigrante 5 years & gone thru (laborious) process & accepted for citizenship,you are then Inmigrado. You cannot apply for ANY status outside of Mexico – except you CAN start it online, it has to be processed & finalised at an INM office in Mexico. ALL forms are in Spanish, so the English one you mention will not be acceptable. You should ask your local office for assistance in your particular category. Married 50 years! You could have held citizenship eons ago! Remember if your address or status (married,retired etc) changes you must notify your local office or you will pay a fine.

    Reply
40. Phillip Herring says:

    November 24, 2011 at 5:13 am

    Thanks. This was very helpful. Of those 50 years of marital bliss, only two were spent as a resident of Mexico. Now it seems that Mexico is actually encouraging rentistas to apply for citizenship. Whichever path is the one of the least hassle and paperwork is the one which attracts me.

    Reply
    • Phillip Herring says:

      November 28, 2011 at 10:40 am

      I haven’t seen comments on this issue. My category (2005-2007) was FM3 Rentista. Does one ever get credit for time served if the visa lapses? Does one just start afresh with INM? Could I do an end run around INM and just apply for citizenship since I have been married to a Mexican for 50 years and our two sons were born there? We will be spending all of January in SMA and SLP, and having connections can help in those towns. I may be too early for Inmigrante Permanente, but I wonder what other options there will be.

      Reply
41. Ricardo Carmesiel says:

    December 7, 2011 at 11:54 am

    I did the Acquisition of a condo in Vallarta and also made the request and received my FM3 card, since I am a painter, I would like to use my work legally with galleries or other … etc, by doing so would result in entries pesos as much for me and for those who sell, (galleries and other) then the question is, do I have requested a special status (artist) as some have mentioned, or have added to my map FM3 something, or simply apply for a FM2, but since it’s only been a month since I have my FM3, should I wait 5 years ?????

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 8, 2011 at 8:07 am

      Ricardo,
      Read our article that addresses these issues at: https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/moving-to-mexico-fmm-fm2-or-fm3/ . If your goal is to live here permanently, then the fastest route to Residente Permanente would seem to be having an Inmigrante/FM2, especially if you do not have a working FM3 and need to change immigration permit status.

      If you are permitted to work, and are not planning to be a permanent resident, I would complete your first year of your No Inmigrante/FM3. There will be an entirely new process and new categories next year. I would make my choice between the new Residente Temporal and Residente Permanente based on which of their options fit your situation: likely Residente Temporal. Contact an accountant about registering with Hacienda and paying taxes. If you do not currently have a working FM3, you would need to get a Residente Temporal type of permit that allows you to work.
      steve

      Reply
42. Raija says:

    December 13, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    We are Canadians living in Mexico. We just got our FM2, it says Inmigrante, Rentista, El extranjero inmigrante reside en Mexico.Now, we want to sell our house and buy a house in Bahias de Huatulco,Oxaca. My question is, do we have to have a bank trustee? I mean do we not get a DEED on a house for ourseleves? If the Deed is in possion of the Bank, then what happens if we die? We would put our daughter as beneficiary. She lives in Canada. Can she sell the house without paying Capital Gain? or is it better to have a Testament. All these laws are so tricky and complicated. We want to do things right. We would sell our house here and then buy another one there. The transaction would be cash payment, no financing. I would think that in case we shouldn’t have to have a trustee? Please advise. Thank you, ria

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 13, 2011 at 1:37 pm

      Hi Raija,
      Is your potential house in Bahias de Huatulco, Oxaca, within the 50km exclusion zone? (A coastal or border area where only Mexican citizens can own property.) If so, then your home could be owned using either a fideicomiso or by a corporation. The advantages and disadvantages of either vehicle are best described by your Notario. Your Notario can also tell you if he/she is willing to approve any future homeowner gains tax exemptions for the house as your primary residence. Many Notarios do not approve this exemption for FM2’s or FM3’s – only Inmigrados, and you would also need to meet other requirements to try to qualify for the exemption. See our article on Capital Gains Taxes on Mexican Properties at: https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/capital-gains-taxes-on-mexican-properties/ e.g. The property cannot be used for income generating purposes within the 5 year residency period.

      The Notario can also explain how things work if you die.
      All the best to you,
      steve

      Reply
43. Brian Voris says:

    December 20, 2011 at 8:35 am

    Does anyone know how the new law will effect property tax issues? Currently you need a FM2
    to qualify for certain levels of property tax exclusion. Does the new catagories have those elements within the classifications? Thanks

    Brian in SMA

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 20, 2011 at 6:07 pm

      Hi Brian,
      There are no hard and fast national rules or law on which immigration status/category qualifies one as a permanent resident for determining whether the property owner qualifies for the home owner’s exemption. This choice is left up to the individual Notarios – who are personally financially liable for approving this claim. Many Notarios do not accept Inmigrante/FM2’s claim for the exemption. Many Notarios do not even accept Inmigrado‘s claims for the exemption, unless the Inmigrado has applied for citizenship.

      Since the Notarios of each State have the slightly different responsibilities on how to decide who qualifies and who does not qualify, I think it will take some time to sort out whether a particular region/State’s Notarios take liberal or conservative positions on who qualifies. Some Notarios may choose to consider Residente Permanente, while others may award the exemption only to naturalized citizens. I would be sure to have my personal Notario give his approval in writing, before making any real estate deals.
      steve

      Reply
44. Solomon Freimuth says:

    December 20, 2011 at 9:58 am

    Good work on investigating this. I am excited about the new changes, I was starting to get discouraged by the lack of a “Reglamento”.

    A few years ago, Felipe Calderon in one of his many speeches on immigration said that he wanted to reform the system so that foreigners didn’t have to renew their visas every year. I am hoping that may be the case with “Temporary Residents”, since the wording in the law doesn’t mention that the document will have to be renewed every year as it does in the current “Ley de Población”.

    Exciting!

    Reply
45. Paul Geraghty says:

    December 23, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    I stumbled upon all this great info while trying to get through to Mexican Consulate in S.F. CA.
    I’m on my 6th, FM3 renewal and don’t want it any longer. Nor do I want an FM2. It is costing too
    much time and money, with no actual benefits. I was looking for a form letter to rescind my FM3.
    Am I going to have to go 1 more time, at renewal date and take care of this, or is there another way?
    I for one am glad to see these changes.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 24, 2011 at 1:02 pm

      Paul,
      There are a few Mexican lawyers who are interpreting provisions of the new INM law to allow INM to issue a 5 year version of the new Residente Temporal: pay once to get the immigration permission of Temporal Residente status, and then use it for 5 years. Will this happen? Apparently, it depends on INM – so, you might want to wait for the Reglamento to be issued and interpreted and implemented to decide what path is best for your situation.
      steve

      Reply
46. Phillip Herring says:

    December 24, 2011 at 8:13 am

    Hi Paul,

    I’ve done this before. I turned in an expired FM3 visa to an INM (Immigration) office in Mexico and exited the country with a FMM, but you can just go down to the Mexican Consulate in S.F. and turn in your FM3, saying that you now live in the U.S. Don’t just throw it away or file it away, or you might have trouble entering Mexico in the future.

    Reply
47. carol says:

    December 30, 2011 at 11:23 pm

    So Steve, based on your update (Dec 22)….How exactly will one apply for/receive the new FMx? Temporary resident status? If you come in on a visitante permit, and then have to exit to apply for a different type of permit…. can you only apply for the FMx’s at the border towns? So then you have to hang out at the border towns to get them?

    Or do you have to get them thru a US consulate? This is muy importante to me because I have sold my house and hope to move at the end of January… I was planning to enter on the old FMM, then apply for FM3 in San Miguel.

    I was also thinking of going to Juarez and applying for FMx there… is that possible even tho I will be living in San Miguel (I have rented a place and have an address there)?

    Thanks for any clarity you may be able to provide… I know there are a lot of unknowns now…but would appreciate you take on this.

    I need an FMx in order to bring my household goods into Mexico… hopefully when I go own there at end of Jan… so I don’t have to unload them and store them on the US side and then load them up again to go to SMA.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 31, 2011 at 10:47 am

      Hi Carol,
      Since none of us know what exactly will be happening either on the local, regional or national levels this coming week, I think it’s best to wait at least one week before making any choices. There are some reports by the Mexican government – listed on the SEGOB website that they realized that are not ready to start the new system on Jan. 2, 2012 – and that they will delay implementation for several months – but that page was taken down…
      steve

      Reply
48. francisco reynoso says:

    January 1, 2012 at 7:33 pm

    hi,I´m not American.I am European.But since American lax laws are the worst,it can only be better for me whatever you answer:I have an Fm3 for about 6 years as non inmigrante visitante.I have to show that I am living from my own income with a bankaccount in Europe that´s all being called “rentista”. Fine. What about the taxes ?When do we non-Mexicans have to be “dado de alta en la hacienda?” When do we have to file tax returns all the same if we work here or not? Does the Fm2 include the obligation to be registered at the Hacienda in Mexico? When and why when you are
    n o t working here,do we have to pay or declare what we earn and have at the Hacienda=dado de alta? Or can we just stay here as long as we want without ever having to pay taxes on interests earned on our bankaccounts outside of Mexico?Thanks for the information,I am not giving my name since it is dangerous & they stole my dates already,I am using another email,fr

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      January 2, 2012 at 12:46 am

      francisco,
      First, we are not experts in taxes, and can only speak to our personal experiences as a US citizen and his Mexicana esposa: USA and Mexico have a tax treaty, which may make things different than for Europeans. Our tax treaty has things set up so that the expat pays US taxes on their US earnings, Mexican taxes on Mexican earnings, and that the individuals then calculate the taxes on total world income, then any tax paid in one country is credited against their taxes owed on total worldwide earnings. As a rentista (living off investment or pension income), you would not have income from working in Mexico, so, in our crude understanding, you would not owe taxes. Our Mexican accountant explained that in our situation, no taxes were owed by me in Mexico, unless I started working for pay here.
      steve

      Reply
49. francisco reynoso says:

    January 1, 2012 at 7:36 pm

    sorry t a x laws,not lax laws

    Reply
50. Marc says:

    January 11, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    As we are waiting for the implementing regulations to be promulgated, this thought has occurred to me: Assuming that holders of an Inmigrante Rentista (the old FM2) visa might not be automatically qualified as a new Residente Permanente, but are reclassified as a Residente Temporal, is there any indication that our time on the FM2/Inmigrante Rentista visas might count towards the four years required as a Residente Temporal before qualifying for the Residente Permanente?

    And secondly, has anyone become aware of how the Points System may work, and if it could be used to reduce the amount of time as a Residente Temporal to qualify for the Residente Permanente visa if not totally replacing that four-year period on the R.T.?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      January 11, 2012 at 1:27 pm

      Marc,
      Excellent Questions!

      So good that many others have asked them, around the internet, but there are no definite answers published yet.

      It would be reasonable to assume that previous years on an FM2 would be considered when qualifying for a Residente Permanente, but Mexican bureaucratic systems are well known for having great and widely varying discretion in how they implement new and changing regulations. No word on ¨Points, other than public statements that there will be a Points system….
      steve

      Reply
51. Phillip Herring says:

    January 13, 2012 at 5:55 am

    I have no answers, but I can say that on Jan. 11th I received a Inmigrante Rentista visa from the INM office in San Luis Potosi, valid for one year. They are still using the old terms FM2, which does not appear on the visa. I asked for a list of rules and they just shrugged their shoulders, but they did know that on this visa one can have a US-plated vehicle in Mexico. Otherwise the process was efficient, friendly, and not irksome. I still don’t know if the old rules about restrictions on the amount of time that one can be out of the country still apply.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      January 13, 2012 at 7:44 am

      Hi Phillip,
      Thanks for the update.
      Across Mexico, expats and abogados continue to report that INM continues to use the old terminology (FM2 and FM3), and to follow the “old” rules and regulations for immigration permits. Our Merida INM officers said last week that they will continue to follow the “old” / current rules until they receive the final version of the Reglamento for the May 25, 2011 “New” INM law. Reports from our local INM officers fit several Mexican immigration attys. reports that their local officials are saying it will likely be “months” until the new Reglamento is written and issued. Until then, the 18 month restriction for Inmigrante (FM2s) being outside Mexico still applies.
      steve

      Reply
52. Marc says:

    January 13, 2012 at 7:35 am

    We don’t need to renew our visas until August – so I’m sure there will be something in place by then – but was hoping there might be some insight, particularly about the points system (that darned graduate degree should be of some use, eh?) if they allow us to use points for partially qualifying for the Residente Permanente.

    Guess I’ll wait (not-so) patiently for news and monitor Yucalandia for news as it happens!

    Marc

    Reply
53. anthonykruiser says:

    January 13, 2012 at 8:28 am

    Can anyone tell me how much it has cost to get citizenship to date? Local abogado said USD $4,000 plus Mexi charges. Somebody said even doing it yourself was same cost! Thanks.

    Reply
54. mexicomystic says:

    January 13, 2012 at 11:44 am

    I just received my Acta de Naturalizacion and an IFE Voters Card..(in Tlaxcala).. Depending on how you look at it… I already had gone through 3 years of an FM3 and 3 years of an FM2 which cost me About $300 dollars a year not counting transportation trips to Mexico City, Copies, etc., So lets say about $2000 dollars. I want mention the Stress factor which I received from both sides of the border. Then I applied for the Acta de Naturalization .. Cost $120 dollars… Fotos, etc. in all over that period of time it probably cost me a total of $2500 dollars… Also I had to prove I was able to support myself in Mexico and get a tax number and pay the taxes on my earnings.
    The fact that I was married to a National and had 2 children born in Mexico helped shorten things a little. I did this ALL on my own without the help of a Lawyer. I think if you get a lawyer you are rolling dice, if you get an honest one it might help some but if you get a crook he’ll bleed you. SRE will give you all the info you need.

    Reply

55. Pingback: Advise on FM 3 renewal pls - Playa del Carmen, Mexico forum

56. Sally Attwell says:

    January 31, 2012 at 8:47 am

    Hola ….I have a FM3 ,had the green book then renewed last year and i have the card .
    I thought i was allowed to renew 30 days before your renewal date that is on the card but i was said that i can start my renewal 60 days before my renewal date is this correct ?
    This would be great my renewal date is April 18th so can i start Feb 18th ?
    My place i go to is close to Chetumal and same distance to the Belize Boarder.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      February 1, 2012 at 1:48 pm

      Sally,
      Everything we have read from INM says to start the process within 30 days before the permit’s expiration date. Some INM offices do allow people to make special applications for an early renewal, but then the applicant (you) forfeit the remaining time left on your current visa. This means that they might allow you to make a special application several months early, but then the renewed visa has an earlier expiration date. e.g. If your visa expires on May 15, and you apply to change it on Feb. 1, and INM issues the new FM3 on Feb. 15, INM could assign you a renewed FM3 with an expiration date between Feb. 1 and Feb 15 – sacrificing 3 months of your previous visa.

      Expats with FM2s or FM3 who are not able to be in Mexico when their visa expires will take this route – to attempt to shift their expiration date to a new date that fits their travel plans, while sacrificing some $$$.

      Hint: it sounds like someone told you just part of the story?
      steve

      Reply
57. Trevor Achenbach says:

    February 7, 2012 at 7:28 pm

    I was wondering, I am a missionary who came to Juarez, Mexico from the USA about 3 months ago. I was told I need a lawyer to get me tax forms, I’m assuming FM-2 or FM-3, to pay Mexican taxes. I’m only planning on being here 2 years at the very most. I don’t receive any income or goods here in Mexico. All I’m doing in humanitarian type work. Can I just use the tourist visa or is there other suggestions? Thanks

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      February 8, 2012 at 7:26 am

      Trevor,
      If you are working here, you should have a “working FM2” or a “working FM3”. Contact an accountant to find out what tax filings are needed – or contact your local Hacienda office for additional guidance.
      steve

      Reply
58. richard westerlage says:

    February 18, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    First I would like to say what a pain. I had to make it a little more difficult as I want to do some hobby type carpenter work as retirement in mexico (or here) does not mean I can sit still. My problem is I do not want to start a mexican corporation as I have had enough tax stuff to last a lifetime. Will be moving to cozumel in november and what I want to do is get an FM# residence visa so that I can apply for permission to engage in lucrative activites. I believe the Residente Permanente covers working immigrants under the right top work. I guess I do not mind paying taxes its just that a corp has to file monthly taxes and you need an accountant always for that.
    Anyway do know of any way to work self employed there on a part time basis without corp forming. Hope this is not a tax question

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      February 19, 2012 at 4:08 pm

      Hi Richard,
      Yes, talk with a good accountant who knows both immigration and tax laws. I had an FM3 that allowed me to work – with an account set up with Hacienda. The account was set up by an accountant. I had the choice of personally filing monthly with Hacienda or on a per project basis. The accountant can make the filings with Hacienda, or you can do them online yourself. There currently is no Residente Permanente yet, and INM officials have said that it is several months out from now. Have you completed 4 years of an FM2 – to allow you to qualify for the new Residente Permanente?
      steve

      Reply
59. Sharyn says:

    February 19, 2012 at 11:30 pm

    I wanted to sell my art work and got permission without forming a corp. It is for ‘smallish’ earnings, so that is the approach to take, I think. I am trying to remember the name of it. Ask around. Maybe you want to use your carpentry as art? So you have to show some pictures of little wooden things you make. Then get permission and i doubt anyone will ever run out to see what kind of carpentry you do later. good luck, and don’t sweat it!

    Reply
60. richard westerlage says:

    February 23, 2012 at 8:25 pm

    Thank’s for the responses. We have not even moved there yet. Cozumel is kind of a small area to escape notice but we will try. I think I have heard something about the art idea and that will probably not work for me. We will be starting out with an FM3 when we go in November and see what develops.
    I like the idea of setting up an account with Hacienda and paying on a pay as you go basis as I really do not want to do a hell of allot anyway.
    Steve do you operate under an FM2 or do you think I can do work with an FM3?

    Reply
61. Hilary Guile says:

    March 3, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    Hi! I am an English Nurse / Teacher with a Canadian parttner, who is a carpenter / builder .
    We are in our 50s . I have a job offer in Puerto Vallarta, and the company representative says he can do the FM forms with IMN when I get there in April. Is this right ?
    I had a hard time when I returned to Canada at POE Vancouver , My Visitor status was current in Canada but was waiting for an LMO prior to a Work Permit ( filed in Sept 2011 and was still waiting in Dec2011 ).I now cannot return to Canada until after Dec 2011 .
    We therefore would like to live in P/V as temporary residents whilst working .
    My partner would like to work as a carpenter / builder for periods of time and I hope to stay for 6 months initially, from April .
    We are co habitee partners in Canada and at present I am living in England visiting family here .
    Any suggestions as to the best way forward ?
    Many Thanks,
    Hilary & Vern

    Reply
    • Hilary Guile says:

      March 3, 2012 at 2:50 pm

      Correction ;- After December 2012!

      Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      March 3, 2012 at 8:40 pm

      Hi Hilary,
      You and your partner can come in as tourists on FMMs, and then apply for working No Inmigrante (FM3) permits while you are here.
      steve

      Reply
62. anthonykruiser says:

    March 4, 2012 at 11:30 am

    Hi Steve
    I receive the various Qs and As, thank you, but am wondering if all the new Immigration regs have in fact now been made official and if so, do you have them in English? All I can see when I look at this site are just the previous surmisings. Many thanks!

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      March 4, 2012 at 8:02 pm

      Hi Anthony,
      There is no word yet from INM on when they will implement the new law. Some regional INM officials have hinted at June, 2012 – but we suspect those are just guesses.
      steve

      Reply
63. Sally Attwell says:

    March 4, 2012 at 8:46 pm

    Hello Steve
    Not sure if i read here or somewhere…. that in the new laws and rules for Mexico they are going to change renewals for FM3 to every five years instead of the yearly renewal . Have you any updated info on this ?
    Thank you Sally

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      March 4, 2012 at 8:53 pm

      Hello Sally,
      There are several lawyers who read the base text of the new INM law to allow up to 5 year (total on one permit) renewals – and one INM regional official reported different costs for 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 year rate schedules for Residente Temporal permits – but none of this has been formally or officially confirmed. We’re still waiting for INM to issue the Reguladora for the new law.
      steve

      Reply
64. Jake says:

    April 9, 2012 at 3:43 am

    Hi.
    I’m getting married to a Mexican citizen in a few months from now. I’m from a different country.
    I don’t have independant income. Do they ask for a criminal record from my own home country? ( I have zero criminal convictions) And can you see any problems for me living in Mexico from a legal standpoint? I want to live there permanently with my bride. I assume this will be an fm2 visa.
    I wonder if they will change me over to the new visa if the law changes after I get an fm2. Thanks for all your information, it’s great.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      April 9, 2012 at 7:25 am

      Jake,
      Each Mexican State has its own Registro Civil offices who set their own requirements for what is needed to marry a Mexican. Have your prospective bride go to her Registro Civil office to get a list of their requirements. e.g. Our Registro Civil office in Merida requires that the foreigner supply a Certification of Singlehood (a document from your home government proving that you are single). Also have her check with her local INM office as to what proofs/requirements they need. Each regional INM office has the discretion to ask for different documentation.

      In the past, some INM offices required proof that the applicant had no criminal record in their home country, but the only time we have heard of this requirement occurring recently was with applications made in the USA through Mexican Consulates.
      All the Best,
      steve

      Reply
65. RG says:

    April 14, 2012 at 6:20 am

    I am Working with company from last 1 year with FM3,If i want to change my employer, as per the old law FM3 holder can not change Employer,Is it same for new law

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      April 14, 2012 at 7:54 am

      RG,
      The Reglamentos for the new law have not been issued yet, so, no one knows the details yet.
      steve

      Reply
66. mexicomystic says:

    April 14, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    I was on an FM2 and was told I could change jobs but had to give at least a one month notice.

    Reply
67. Brian Johnson says:

    April 16, 2012 at 9:58 am

    Excellent overview of the new laws. I’ll look forward to email updates as the new laws are implemented.
    Thanks for doing all the hard work.

    Reply
68. J_CozDiver says:

    April 22, 2012 at 8:23 am

    [quote] QUOTE: yucalandia says: January 13, 2012 at 7:44 am
    Hi Phillip, Thanks for the update. Across Mexico, expats and abogados continue to report that INM continues to use the old terminology (FM2 and FM3), and to follow the “old” rules and regulations for immigration permits. Our Merida INM officers said last week that they will continue to follow the “old” / current rules until they receive the final version of the Reglamento for the May 25, 2011 “New” INM law. Reports from our local INM officers fit several Mexican immigration attys. reports that their local officials are saying it will likely be “months” until the new Reglamento is written and issued. [b] Until then, the 18 month restriction for Inmigrante (FM2s) being outside Mexico still applies.[/b] steve [/quote]

    I’m confused – I thought you are allowed to be out of the country for a aggregate total of 180 days in 5 years. I am assuming this was a typo? Gracias.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      April 22, 2012 at 12:36 pm

      J_CozDiver,
      The “180 day” restriction is the maximum time (and typical time) that INM gives for FMM expiration dates. The 18 month limit on aggregate out-of-the-country time on an Inmigrante visa (FM2) has been in place as long as we know.
      steve

      Reply
69. Phillip Herring says:

    April 22, 2012 at 9:35 am

    On Feb. 5th I asked an INM officer in MEX airport about this time restriction and she said that it did not apply any more to FM2s. Entering Mexico again on April 10th the INM officer in Laredo was interested in when I had left (Feb. 5th). Depends on who you ask, I suppose, but I trust the young lady who said that exit restrictions no longer apply

    Reply
70. Hugh says:

    May 16, 2012 at 11:50 am

    I have been an FM3 holder since August 2011 and no longer live nor intend to live in Mexico. Is there anything I need to do to avoid future problems with entry as a tourist?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      May 16, 2012 at 11:52 am

      Hugh,
      Leave Mexico before your FM3 expires, and bring your passport and request an FMM when you return.
      steve

      Reply
    • Rick Wunn says:

      June 6, 2012 at 1:23 pm

      are you a homeowner?

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        June 7, 2012 at 11:43 am

        Rick, yes.
71. richard westerlage says:

    May 20, 2012 at 6:52 am

    Kind of off topic here but as we were in Cozumel the last two weeks we were able to go by customs and ask them directly about moving household stuff there. We were told that only an empty car was allowed to enter with a tourist visa only. Rolly is of the opinion that we can move a car and trailer full of household goods there with a tourist visa and I cannot see how this is a problem.Everybody else says you have to have an FM3 to bring your stuff.
    I know you cannot apply logic to allot of things that go on in Mexico but it seems to me like if you are a first time visitor to mexico and are wanting to retire and move there to say Merida or somewhere you would not have been there yet and could not therefore have an FM3 in your possession.I guess my question is this, Can we cross the border, get a tourist visa and move some possessions to Mexico in a suv and a 4×8 trailer?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      May 20, 2012 at 8:23 pm

      Hi richard,
      Is there any chance that the Aduana person in Cozumel thought you were bringing the car in by ship? Cars arriving by ship must be empty… Cozumel is so far from any land border, I suspect that their Aduana personnel may not know the details for land crossings.

      Historically, driving across the border with a load of household goods produces a dice-roll event – regardless of whether your have an FMM (tourist permit) or an FM3.
      ~ Some people are waved through with their vehicles crammed with stuff – especially the ones with big dogs riding along.
      ~ A few get stopped and given a quick once over – to look for drugs, guns, medicines, or other contraband – and get waved through. It can help a ton to have an Excel spreadsheet printout of every single thing in your load, with the prices (from E-bay?) and any applicable serial numbers listed (like a menaje de casa).
      ~ A very few people driving in get waved to the side, get thoroughly inspected, and have to pay duties on contents of the load (minus the personal deductions).

      I most recently entered Mexico with friends with a 16′ dual axle fully enclosed trailer – the trailer was roughly half full… After a cursory inspection for contraband – opening a few boxes as they requested – and then waved through with no charges… Can any of us predict how it will go for you? lo no se… 15% duty on stuff, if they decide to apply it.

      If you are (former?) law enforcement, or a lawyer, or a doctor, consider politely introducing yourself as such, (in a professional way), and many many times you may find they stand up a bit straighter and treat you very well. One lawyer friend finds that they even get chatty when they find out, and they ask if they can get any legal help with getting themselves or family members into the States.

      All the best,
      steve

      Reply
72. Rick Wunn says:

    June 6, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Im a homeowner in San Felipe with a fm3,I only go down their once a year for a week or so.So whatr your saying is I dont need a Fm3,I’m in a master trust with El Dorado Ranch? Thanks Rick

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      June 7, 2012 at 11:43 am

      Rick, Correct.

      Reply
73. Merlenna says:

    June 12, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    I have a question. My husband and I just visited Mexico and stayed with friends, and we are thinking of moving to Mexico. I work online. What visa would we need to apply for and how do we do it?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      June 14, 2012 at 5:14 pm

      Merlenna,
      If you stay in Mexico less than 6 months at a time, you can use a simple tourist visa (FMM) with online work, paid to you outside of Mexico. If you want to stay longer than 6 month periods, read our article on FMMs, FM2’s and FM3: https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/moving-to-mexico-fmm-fm2-or-fm3/ since there is a lot of information you might want to know before deciding.
      Happy Trails, steve

      Reply
      • Charles says:

        July 13, 2012 at 12:49 pm

        July 13, 2012. I just pickup up my FM3 renewa; this morning. It is my 4th one. Immingation told me that 30 days before this one expires (no inmigrante), I can apply for an INMIGRANTE status. What is the difference of applying for it and what advantage if any would it give me? I married a Mexican lady and we have a son who was born here in Mexico. Our marriage is registered here in Mexio.
      • yucalandia says:

        July 17, 2012 at 5:24 pm

        Hi Charles,
        Read our article on Moving to Mexico: FMM, FM2, or FM3? ~ https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/moving-to-mexico-fmm-fm2-or-fm3/ ~ ? It contains detailed discussions of the benefits and drawbacks of each of the current categories. Under current INM rules, as the spouse of a Mexican citizen, you could qualify to apply for citizenship after only 2 years of Inmigrante (FM2) status. Inmigrante is also the permit that leads to qualifying for Inmigrado status.

        There are drawbacks to having an FM2. The annual costs are higher, you can only be out of Mexico for less than 18 months over 5 years. Only FM2 Rentista is allowed to keep a temporarily imported vehicle, while other categories are not allowed to keep foreign plated cars. Read the article for more details.
        steve
74. Preet Rau says:

    July 2, 2012 at 4:31 am

    I seriously am grateful for all of the effort you have put into keeping this site around for your followers.

    I honestly hope this stays online for a nice long while.
    All the best.

    Reply
75. Rosemary Gomez says:

    July 16, 2012 at 11:50 am

    I have been living in Mexico since January 1997. I filed for my FM2 in April of 2002. In August of 2007 I was granted the status of “Inmigrado”. My husband is a Mexican national and I have tried to obtain citizenship twice – once basing my application on the fact that three of my grandparents were born in Mexico and should make me eligible for double citizenship and another time when my FM2 was to expire before I was granted the status of “Inmigrado”. I know the SRE in Mexico is where citizenships are granted, but I was wondering if anyone has had the same problem as I have. When I applied for citizenship the first time, I could not get copies of any of my grandparents’ birth certificates to prove their citizenship. The second time, I was told that because my passport and birth certificate have different last names SRE could not proceed with the process. My husband and I were married over forty years ago in the state of Indiana and at the time of our marriage I took on his last name. Obviously, when I applied for a passport, I did it using my married name hence the two different last names. Can someone tell me what I can do so that I can successfully apply for citizenship? I would be grateful for any help or suggestions. Keep up the good work!

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      July 16, 2012 at 5:37 pm

      Hi Rosemary,
      Yes, we have heard similar stories from reliable friends. Your experience is not unique. We have no other advice other than to hire a talented immigration attorney who knows how the systems work. All the Do It Yourself efforts of our friends with these issues have had zero success over the past 6 years.
      steve

      Reply
76. Charles says:

    July 17, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Have an amendment made on your birth certificate to coincide with your passport. You can do that in the State where you were born. Apply for citizenship on the basis of being married to a Mexican. FORGET THE LAWYERS!!!

    Reply
77. Charles says:

    July 17, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    In my opinion the office of SRE is clearly operating illegally, that is anainst the National law of
    Mexico. The National Mexican lay of May 2012 states that a foreigner who desires Mexican
    citizenship can be the 2nd grade, THE PROGENITOR (the person born in Mexican) DOES NOT
    ENTER IN THE GRADES. This means a child or a Grandchild is elligible. SRE told me repeatedly
    that the Progenitor is GRADE 1. NOT SO, I TOLD HIM AND SHOWED THEM THE NATIONAL
    LAW. The Director told me that they have their own REGLAMENTOS. I asked him how his office
    is able to operate against the national law, and that I’m going to find out.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      July 17, 2012 at 5:01 pm

      Hi Charles,
      When you read the actual laws (in addition to the regulations and rules), you find that individual offices of SRE, Aduana, and INM are each given broad discretion on how to implement the laws and rules. As our friends have found out, even if you meet the web-described requirements to a TEE, the local officials are not required to accept the evidence we present, nor are they required to do what we want.

      As described in your own process, you were not successful in multiple attempts to get your SRE office to do what you wanted. This seems to indicate that your previous Do It Yourself (DIY) attempts have not been successful. In the absence of successful attempts by our DIY attempts, our friends’ unsuccessful DIY attempts, and your unsuccessful DIY attempts, all at different SRE offices, then it appears that professional help may be the best remaining option for Ms. Gomez.
      steve

      Reply
78. darla nordstrom says:

    July 28, 2012 at 10:06 am

    First, I need to congratulate you for all of this hard work. Amazing how you gathered all this information.
    Do you know what the new laws will be for an FM2-worker driving an American plated car will be?
    thanking you.
    Darla

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      July 28, 2012 at 2:58 pm

      Hi darla,
      No one knows what the final form is until they release it.
      steve

      Reply
      • darla nordstrom says:

        July 28, 2012 at 3:23 pm

        I meant to say the new permanent papers// with a car, but I guess you figured it out.. thanks so much. D
79. Elaine Miller says:

    August 20, 2012 at 11:56 am

    I would like to add that my experience with INM in the state of Sonora this July was that I could no longer renew my “FM3” as I had it for five years. I was told I could apply for a new one in the States or pay for an “FM2” in Guaymas. I elected to get the new Inmigrante card as my car is free from the current impound fee and it would be less costly to pay the 3900 pesos for the new permit. I assume next year all could be different.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      August 20, 2012 at 9:18 pm

      Hi Elaine,
      Good update. Your experiences fit with the (old) federal rules. Each FM3 can be renewed up to 4 years, for 5 years total. Then (under the old/current rules) you either apply for a new FM3, apply for an FM2, or leave Mexico (and return under FMMs).
      All the best,
      steve

      Reply
80. anthonykruiser says:

    August 20, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    Just my usual periodic checking that we still have not had confirmation regarding the new laws and that I wasn’t sleeping since the promised time of May 2 years ago…beginning to wonder if all will change yet again,omitting the last change! – after new President officially in power. So many Qs, so few As…Thanks Yuucalandia team for being our eyes & ears!

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      August 20, 2012 at 9:06 pm

      Anthony,
      Agreed. The price schedules are in place for the new system, some of the rules changes are creeping in, but some savvy folk are saying that the new PRI administration will want to put their own stamp on the key new civil rights parts of the law ~ including landmark new protections for Guatemaltecans, Hondurans, Costa Ricans, et al who are in Mexico illegally (transiting to the USA?).
      ???
      steve

      Reply
81. Karl says:

    September 4, 2012 at 7:55 am

    Hope this might be useful for your readers:
    We are a Scandinavian couple who plan to move to Mexico next year.
    We have already bought a condominium where we will live, which will be completed March 2013.

    We will seek permanent residency permit, and will not seek employment in Mexico.

    Following is my dialog with the Mexican embassy in Copenhagen:
    Question:
    As I understand it, the best way to apply for what used to be called FM2, is to enter Mexico on a tourist visa, fill out our application online and then apply locally for the permanent residency (?).

    We will also need to send some household goods, all used, in a small container by sea.

    Do we need a license/permit or simillar from your embassy in Copenhagen before we ship the goods?
    If yes: How do we go about this?
    How long is the permit valid after you issue it?

    Answer:
    Please note that our visa regulations are expected to change as of the end of October this year, and thereforeit will no longer be possible to apply locally for permanent residency after having entered the country as a tourist.Hence, to obtain a residence permit you will have to apply for a visa at this or any other Mexican consular office abroad. At the moment, we do not have the specific requirements available, but we will publicize them as soon as they are in force.
    Concerning the removal of your household goods, indeed you require a permit from the Embassy so that your goods can be liberated tax free from customs in Mexico. The requirements to obtain such permit are:
    Packing list (three copies), containing a detailed description of all items, the address in Mexico where they will be delivered and your former address in Norway, andduly signed in original.
    If the importation is definite:
    – Copy of your valid passport and immigration card; (hence, you should obtain the visa before the permit)
    – Place where you will live in Mexico (including address);
    – Proof of payment of the fee.
    If the importation istemporary:
    – Copy of valid passport andvisa or temporary resident card;
    – Place where you will live in Mexico (including address);
    – A letter (signed) where you oblige to the return of the goods abroad and that, in case of changing your address in Mexico, you will notify the custom authorities;
    – Proof of payment of the fee.

    Question:
    Is there a time limit where I have to enter Mexico after you have issued the permit?
    Is there a time limit where the goods have to arrive in Mexico after you have issued that permit, and we have arrived in Mexico?

    Answer:
    The residence permit expires on the date specified in the permit. There is no time limit for you to enter Mexico during that period, but you have to obtain a resident card in Mexico within the first 30 days of your stay.
    There is no expiration date on the certificate of household goods.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      September 4, 2012 at 3:06 pm

      Hi Karl,
      Wow, this is the most specific and most detailed information we have seen about the long-awaited implementation of INM’s 2011 “New Immigration Law”. I have copied the information you kindly provided, above, into the body of the article, and created a post highlighting the answers you received.
      THANKS!
      steve

      Reply
      • Don Cuevas says:

        September 5, 2012 at 5:55 am

        Que será, será. When the new regs are implemented, and our local delegacíon is fully trained in implementing them, then we can definitively know the answer to “¿Que pasa?”
      • yucalandia says:

        September 5, 2012 at 7:02 am

        Amen!

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84. Charles 2 says:

    September 6, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    Dear Yucalandia, I have had an FM3 for 9 years. I finished the 5 year deal then got another one. I renewed my new card last month. The INM guy said before my next renewal I can cet citizenship. I was told that before. I do NOT want Mex. citizenship. I have been marriesd to a Mexican lady for over 9 years (marriage registered here) & have a, 8 year old son born here. All I want is the PERMANENT RESIDENTCY. iS THAT AN OPTION?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      September 6, 2012 at 6:06 pm

      Hi Charles,
      In a normal world of routine application of the rules, no…

      But if your local office is willing to offer it (or allow it), then you should ask your INM office if they would allow you to apply for Inmigrado status. Maybe things are done differently there.
      steve

      Reply
85. Kris says:

    September 12, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    I understood all FM2 and FM3 (current laws) were good for a 1 year period, then needed renewed? Is there a visa with a shorter time frame (under the current laws or laws to be soon implemented)? Just picked up our card and it expires in 6 months. no-immigrante lucrativo. any thoughts?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      September 12, 2012 at 8:19 pm

      Hi Kris,
      Yes, all past FM2 and FM3’s were issued for 1 year.

      Your 6 month expiration date for a No Inmigrante Lucrativo seems unusual. Is there any chance that you are mistaken? What date does the Fecha de Caducidad field have?

      It is not that I do not believe you, but that is a big change – possibly indicating that INM will change over to the new system very soon – and they want to get everyone converted to the new system quickly???

      Was this a renewal or was this a new FM3?
      Did they charge you the normal full year fee?
      ???
      steve

      Reply
      • Kris says:

        September 13, 2012 at 9:30 pm

        I replied below to your questions, it clearly expires in 6 months. Would you suggest going back and asking questions now(our spanish is limited) or wait for the new laws to be in effect before asking?
86. Kris says:

    September 12, 2012 at 9:14 pm

    I’m glad we are not the only ones confused.
    This was for a new application for my husband and he applied for an FM2 artista, they requested more info after the initial application, including to modify is letter of intent but never mentionned a different status than FM2 artista. The fees paid in total were 2906 pesos. The card states Calidad -no inmigrante, Caracteristica – Visitante, Modalidad – Otros, Tipo de actividad – Lucrativa, fecha de expedicion 06/09/2012, fecha de vencimiento 05/03/2013. We didn’t check the card till later in the day so couldn’t ask why at immigration, and we were too excited to have the card to worry about the details at the time. We did the process ourselves and it took exactly a month from day of application to receiving the card. This was at the Cancun office.

    Reply
87. Oliver says:

    September 12, 2012 at 9:51 pm

    I’ve been in Mexico a few times, in the past i traded my 6 month tourist visa for a FM3 to work and to get an additional 1 year stay. Now that i’m back, upon entering they gave me an FMM and as my 6 months are coming to an end I see no FM2 FM3 options on the INM website. I think that what i gather from previous posts is that they no longer exist. I’ve researched all the options on the INM website and am confused about what to get now. My intentions are to get married and obtain citizenship. In the past i thought it was FM2 for 2 years with marriage papers and that would get you citizenship. On the INM website the best option i can find is a “cambio de caracteristica” under the following clauses “cambio de caracteristica dentro de la calidad de Inmigrante Profesional” o “declaratoria de inmigrado” The town i live in is asking us for permission from the state in order to get married (San Luis Potosí) and I’m just wondering how i could go about achieving all this with out to many hoops to jump through? FMM – permission from state to marry – marriage – and how to obtain citizenship? Advice?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      September 13, 2012 at 6:41 am

      Hi Oliver,
      Read our article on Moving to Mexico: FMM, FM2, or FM3?: https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/moving-to-mexico-fmm-fm2-or-fm3/ for details on benefits and drawbacks to each category, and explanations of how to get an FM2 or FM3 and some information on citizenship applications.

      Under the old INM law, the Inmigrante (FM2) permit was your quickest route to either citizenship or Inmigrado status as the spouse of a Mexican. We are living with the rules of the old INM law, until INM issues the Reglamento for the New Law. None of us know how the Reglamento will handle this under the New Law.

      Your marriage application typically has to be handled by your state’s central Registro Civil. Even though some state websites say you must get INM approval to get married, the rules have changed, and INM now has a sign saying that they no longer approve weddings to foreigners.

      Citizenship is a whole other can of worms. You make your application SRE – see the link to SRE in https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/moving-to-mexico-fmm-fm2-or-fm3/ for their Requisitos . If you are over 60, you no longer have to pass a history & culture test. You must have at least 6 months left on your INM permit to qualify for applying for citizenship. You must pass a spoken language test. You must renounce your foreign citizenship (but you do NOT have to send a written renunciation to your home government). etc etc
      All the best,
      steve

      Reply
      • mexicomystic says:

        September 13, 2012 at 7:52 am

        When I got married I had to get permission from Relations Exterior in Mexico City. This may have changed… it was a 3 day ordeal and it was a month after the Tlatelalco massacre which occurred near the SRE office so that may have had some bearing on the proceedings at the time.
      • yucalandia says:

        September 13, 2012 at 9:49 am

        Hi Mike,
        Yes, it has changed. They stopped the requirement for SRE approval, and shifted it temporarily to INM. That temporary program for INM approval for foreigners to marry Mexicans has been ended in the past few months.
        steve
      • Oliver says:

        September 13, 2012 at 12:19 pm

        We called the state INM office and they said that they no longer give information over the phone and that we have to personally drop by. We explained that their office is a bit out of the way for us and they gave us a little info. They said that the FM3 was the way to citizenship, but I think that they were purposefully trying to complicate things for us. I have read many times that is definitely the FM2 and this is something that they should certainly know.

        “and INM now has a sign saying that they no longer approve weddings to foreigners.” is this true for every office? its about 5 hours away for us, are they just going to tell us no? our city “registro civil” told us that we have to get permission from the state. And on the INM website there is a PDF with the requirements. Has anybody been told “no” recently? and what happened next?
      • yucalandia says:

        September 13, 2012 at 8:04 pm

        Oliver,
        We cannot tell you how each INM office handles things, but the official national rules – as followed by our Yucatan INM offices:
        1. FM3 are NOT a route to citizenship nor inmigrado status.
        2. INM does NO LONGER approve foreigners to marry Mexicans. This responsibility is strictly up to your Registro Civil office. In Yucatan, it is now ONLY handled by a single Yucatan state Registro Civil office.

        So, your city Registro Civil office may be directing you to go to your STATE Registro Civil office.

        Both myself and another expat fluent in Spanish have gone through this drill with our local INM office and local Registro Civil offices. Our local INM office even has a sign posted describing that they no longer approve marriages by foreigners, so there are no issues of us being confused nor issues of us not understanding Spanish.
        Happy Trails,
        steve
    • Woody says:

      September 13, 2012 at 7:26 pm

      See Woody’s post below – I guess I didn’t get it attached to this strand.

      Reply

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89. Charles says:

    September 13, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Take her to the USA and marry her there. Then just Register the marriage with INM and also in a Registro Civil. Is she can’t go to the states, if you live in either in Texas or I think Nevada you can do a proxy marriage. Here in Mexici the has to go to a Notary Public and sign a statement why she cannot be present. Then take your marriage license to a county Judge. You will need a “stand-in” to answer for your Mexican wife. I KNOW it works. I did it, and now have been in Mexixo for over 9 years.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      September 13, 2012 at 8:19 pm

      Charles,
      In theory, advising someone to go to the USA and get married sure sounds good.

      In reality, many many many Mexican Juzgados and many Registro Civil offices DO NOT ACCEPT US marriages. I know at least 6 different couples who have had their requests legally denied to have their US marriages recognized by the Mexican Gobierno. 4 of those couples were Americans married to Americans- trying to get their US marriages recognized to make property, inheritance, and medical POA issues easier…

      I am glad that you were able to get a judge to recognize your marriage. Our experience is that far more couples applications (for getting US marriages approved) are rejected than the few that are accepted. Once your application has been rejected by a Mexican Juzgado, the Registro Civil is HAPPY to allow you to get married in Mexico.

      Go figure…
      Happy Trails,
      steve

      Reply
      • John Garvin says:

        September 21, 2012 at 8:02 am

        Steve, I am Canadian and my wife is Mexican. We were married in Austin Texas 18 months ago and here in San Miguel the Registro Civil quickly accepted the documents and acknowledged the marriage allowing it to be registered in Mexico. It was much easier than getting approval to marry in Mexico especially since Canadians can not get documents apostilled.
      • yucalandia says:

        September 23, 2012 at 10:29 pm

        Cool !
90. Woody says:

    September 13, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    A year ago I went in to the San Luis Potosí INM and asked for an FM2 and “Familiar” status so that I could obtain citizenship in 2 years. My wife is Mexican and we were married in Mexico 15 years ago. The woman who runs the desk downstairs told me that I needed to get and FM3 and wait 3 years or something, then get an FM2, blah, blah, blah. I didn’t think she was right but didn’t have time to challenge her then.

    This year, in July, I went in to renew and asked to change to FM2-Familiar. Again, the same woman told me the same thing. This time I asked to speak with her supervisor and was sent upstairs. After explaining the situation and what I wanted the supervisor agreed with me that I should have an FM2 now and that it would be 2 years before I could apply for citizenship. She called Anai upstairs (I think that’s her name) and explained things to her. Anai explained that she had apparently been misinformed by someone before but didn’t seem to be bothered at all and went down and did my FM2. They even cranked it out that same afternoon so that I wouldn’t have to drive all the way back to SLP from where I live.

    There is one issue though. My FM2 is not the “working” one and as a result I can’t temporarily import a vehicle under that visa. If I want a car I have to buy one in Mexico. “No Lucrativo” means no permiso for your car. You will have to get it out of the country before the date when your INM status changes.

    I went ahead and did the INM change from FM3 to FM2 which took effect before the old FM3 would have expired and then headed for the border with a copy of the old FM3 to show if needed. I have been stopped many time to see the “permiso” papers and have never been asked to show my visa papers along with it. The original permiso will still have the old visa expiration date on it. If you get out before then you’re good.

    If you have a “working” visa I think, as I remember, that you can keep your vehicle. Don’t quote me on that. You should ask. The supervisor upstairs knows that answer. If you can keep the car, remember that you will lose the money you put down at the border if you don’t inform the aduana of the visa renewal (change) soon enough. You better start 30 days early or so because the aduana computers will take your money automatically on the last day of your permiso even if you have renewed your visa and even if you have told aduana if the paperwork at aduana takes too long to clear. You won’t get that money back and you will be blacklisted for bringing in another vehicle. This is even if it is their fault for being slow with your paperwork.

    When I married my Mexican wife, 15 years ago in Morelia, I had to have an “official” translation of my birth certificate and the birth certificate had to be “apostillado”

    Good luck with all of this. In the end my issues with the Mexican migra were a lot easier than getting my wife and kids into the U.S.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      September 13, 2012 at 8:14 pm

      Woody,
      Sorry you got sold a bum steer.

      Unfortunately, there are very few web sites that actually describe these things currently, correctly, or well. The only 2 sites that we have seen that do it currently (with good regular updates), correctly, and well: Rolly Brook’s site and ours (Yucalandia). Mexico Mike stays on top of things, but he reasonably charges for his services.

      Ironically, our 2 sites are also the only ones that seem to give good advice, and are ad-free and without fees.

      Would the readers here be offended if we started to include some ads- to help defray expenses? Good advice that saves readers years of getting the wrong INM visas would seem worth something?

      ~~~~~~
      One item that needs clarification: You wrote:
      “There is one issue though. My FM2 is not the “working” one and as a result I can’t temporarily import a vehicle under that visa. If I want a car I have to buy one in Mexico. “No Lucrativo” means no permiso for your car. You will have to get it out of the country before the date when your INM status changes. ”

      This information does not fit INM policy. There is only one type of Inmigrante INM permit that allows the holder to have a temporarily imported car: RENTISTA . By choosing Familiar for your Inmigrante permit, you are not permitted to keep a foreign plated car.

      INM permits that allow foreign plated cars using temporary import permits are not for visitors or temporary residents. By choosing to go for citizenship, you are inherently saying that you are NOT here temporarily.

      Make sense?
      Happy Trails,
      steve

      Reply
      • anthonykruiser says:

        September 14, 2012 at 7:49 am

        Not offended at advertising, I can choose not to look at it, LOL !

        From: Surviving Yucatan Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 9:14 PM To: abmarine@hotmail.com Subject: [New comment] New Immigration Law Published for Mexico – The Article

        yucalandia commented: “Woody, Sorry you got sold a bum steer. Unfortunately, there are very few web sites that actually describe these things currently, correctly, or well. The only 2 sites that we have seen that do it currently (with good regular updates), correctly, and wel” Respond to this comment by replying above this line New comment on Surviving Yucatan yucalandia commented on New Immigration Law Published for Mexico – The Article.

        in response to Woody:

        A year ago I went in to the San Luis Potosí INM and asked for an FM2 and “Familiar” status so that I could obtain citizenship in 2 years. My wife is Mexican and we were married in Mexico 15 years ago. The woman who runs the desk downstairs told me that I needed to […]

        Woody, Sorry you got sold a bum steer. Unfortunately, there are very few web sites th
    • Charles says:

      September 14, 2012 at 6:10 am

      I have read in English and in Spanish that the date on your car sticker is not really important; that the car is legal as long as you are legal in Mexico. I keep it in my glove box. I only was told once by a local transito that is was expired. I offered to show him the paper in my glove box but he said OK, and I was on my way.

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        September 14, 2012 at 7:05 am

        Hi Charles,
        Many people have written overly simplistic interpretations of all the rules, basing their misunderstanding solely on Article 106. This is one of those cases where the rules and the enforcement changed 2 years ago in July, 2010, and many websites are not keeping their information current. \

        The current Aduana rules DO require that you officially notify Aduana every year of your updated INM permit expiration date. If you do not notify Aduana in person of your new exp. date, Banjercito confiscates your deposit, which disproves that the overly simplified interpretation of only renewing your INM permit also magically keeps your Aduana permit current. As a result, Aduana offices now give out an official letter every year to carry in the car, proving that you registered your new expiration date.

        Some state border crossings are now checking the paper permit, sticker dates, and if you have a letter from Aduana documenting that your Aduana permit expiration date has also been renewed. We got checked 2 months ago crossing the Quintana Roo – Yucatan border. Fortunately all papers were in order.

        I understand that your local transito officer let you go, but so many police officers do not want to do the paperwork of tickets or the hassles of calling Aduana officers to come confiscate your car, that they tend to wave people back onto the road.
        Glad that it worked out for you!

        It is really really easy to get your expiration date updated by Aduana, so, it seems worth it to us.
        steve
91. mexicomystic says:

    September 13, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    Other surprises will await you… I’m now a Mexican citizen as of last December… When your 2 years are up on the FM2 and you no longer deal with INM … SRE will tell you you have to have a current FM2 that is no older than 6 months… So you’ll have to go through that process again with immigration.. Also your marriage certificate, birth certificate and wifes birth certificate cannot be more than 2 years old… you’ll have to get new copies dated less than 2 years old at civil registry.
    You’ll be allowed to keep your American passport but if you cross the border dont show them both at the same time… Mex. passport on this side…Amer, passport on other side. Technically you are a Mex. Citizen… No one is going to ask but dont flash. You will be asked to sign a paper in SRE renouncing all other citizenships… the reason for this is if you break the law and then try to say you’re an American citizen they are going to pull this paper out and say… Oh No you arent. so dont sweat it…just dont rob any banks.

    Reply
    • anthonykruiser says:

      September 14, 2012 at 7:53 am

      Now I’m really confused. The FM2 “must not be older than 2 years”? It is valid for 5 years & was told had to wait for it to be at least 2 years old before could start the process. Also: “Marriage & birth certs cannot be more than 2 years old” – how on earth am I going to get British Registrar to change the date of an official document? Never going to happen. Maybe you mean the Apostillo to be not more than 2 years old? Just paid for all of this over a year ago, plus DHL, great – going to have to do it again!

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        September 14, 2012 at 9:05 am

        Hey Anthony,
        Who said “the FM2 must not be older than 2 years” ??

        The official SRE Requisitos only say that you must have at least 6 months remaining on your INM permit. Acceptable INM permits?: No Inmigrante and Inmigrado are specifically identified as the acceptable INM permits in the most recent SRE regulations.

        I think the 2 year requirement applies to when the current version of your document is issued, printed, and apostilled.
        steve
      • mexicomystic says:

        September 14, 2012 at 9:54 am

        Its not change the date on it… its you have to have a Copy of the certificate from civil registry where you were born, or married that is certified less than 2 years old.
        Yes I know… I had to get this done twice and it wound up costing me over $100 dollars for something that normally costs ten dollars… ah what a tangled web of red tape is presented to us… a bureaucratic Gordian knot.
92. Charles says:

    September 14, 2012 at 6:21 am

    It wasn’t a Mexican Judge. An American judge married us by proxy. Here in Mexico, INM wanted to see the marriage certificate, and simply entered it in our INM records. Then we registered it in a Registro civil. Everything has been cool since that. It was about 8 years ago. INM keeps telling me I qualify for citizenship, and I keep telling them “thank you , but no thank you”.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      September 14, 2012 at 7:11 am

      Hi Charles,
      I’m glad that your Registro Civil approved your US marriage. As happens frequently in Mexico, government things that are routinely approved at one office or in one town, are often dis-approved by other offices in other states and other cities, all following the same government/same rules.

      Because of these variations between how marriage license rules rules are applied, we advise people to check with their local offices on what is allowed or permitted by their local application of this specific rule. I’d hate for someone to make an expensive trip back to the USA to get married, and then find that their US wedding is not acceptable and then they still have to get married here, and pay the same $2000 pesos wedding application permit here for a marriage here that they could have done in the first place.
      To each his own,
      steve

      Reply
93. Charles says:

    September 14, 2012 at 6:27 am

    Whoa! I have never had anything but an FM3 and INM keeps telling me I can get citizenship; but it’s probably because I’m married to a Mexican lady.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      September 14, 2012 at 7:20 am

      Hi Charles,
      Since INM has nothing to do with you getting citizenship, asking INM about citizenship requirements is like going to a US county DMV drivers license office and asking them about specific citizenship requirements for foreigners in the USA.

      Instead: Go to your local SRE office, describe your situation, and ask for their requirements.

      About 5-6 years ago in the past, SRE would accept some citizenship applications from people on old FM3s. Since the 2010 change from FM3’s (and the old rules and old paper books), over to No Inmigrante permits and the new cards, the SRE offices (we hear from) clearly have not been accepting No Inmigrante (still commonly referred to as FM3’s) years as credit towards qualifying for citizenship.

      If you read Woody’s post (above), it becomes clear that many INM agents really do know either INM rules nor SRE rules.

      Good luck on the information you get from SRE !

      Please come back and tell us what SRE tells you,
      steve

      Reply
      • mexicomystic says:

        September 14, 2012 at 7:39 am

        That’s correct Steve… you’re dealing with a different set of bureaucrats. I started citizenship papers 6 years ago… SRE told me, you have to have three years with FM3, prove that you are getting X amount of money in a bank account, or you’re working , have an RFC (tax number) …a C.U.R.P. (Population Registration Card.), and after which two more years on an FM2 (because of a catch 22, this was 3 years)..In the 5th year you start filing for citizenship…. A marriage in the USA is accepted if it has an apostille.Also birth certificates from the USA have to have apostilles… these have to be obtained from the State they were issued from.
      • yucalandia says:

        September 14, 2012 at 8:50 am

        Hi Mike,
        Good updates!

        One variation: Our local Juzgado’s and the local and State Registro Civil offices have NOT been accepting US marriages for at least the past 4 years…

        Our wedding certificate/License was recently apostilled by the county official that issued the original wedding license, it had the correct County apostille cover sheet, had the bar-code sticker affixed to the license, was an original version on the original heavy-bond linen paper, legal sized document, signed in ink (not printed nor machine signed), had the County’s official seal pressed into/across the signatures, had an accepted official Spanish translation letter by a Notario, ALL filed by a respected Notario, ** and …

        just like other applicants here …both the Juzgado and the State Registro Civil rejected it because they officially said they thought our US license was “false”.

        So, again, local variances can trump Mex. Gob. policy – as they have been doing here in Yucatan for years with US marriages.

        All the best,
        steve

        **I mention all these things, because we had heard reports from others on the stipulations and requirements that the Juzgado could require or the Registro Civil could require. We touched all the bases, and they simply said: “No” – even though we hold property together, joint bank accounts, have lived together continuously for 7 years prior to filing, … yada, yada, yada… We have heard personally from 7 other couples who have also had their applications rejected, and have not heard from even one couple these past 5 years who Yucatan officials in Merida accepted their US weddings. Other systems work GREAT here – making this the one area that we go down into the rabbit-hole.
94. mexicomystic says:

    September 14, 2012 at 9:43 am

    I guess its up to the officials.. or they are holding out for a mordida… when following rules that are posted and they still say NO, then I would get a lawyer or go to Mexico City and talk to them about it.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      September 14, 2012 at 9:56 am

      Mike,
      Very true.

      We used a lawyer, and they had no luck for 3 years of persistent efforts – so, it was not some DIY effect.

      The wedding license only costs $160 USD, so that route seems cheaper than a prolonged fight, particularly since the Mexican wedding route is fast. After 5 years of trying to get this finished – fast seems like a good thing, especially since my citizenship application is held up by further delays.
      steve

      Reply
95. Charles says:

    September 21, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    I was married in Dallas, Texas, and 2 cities here in Jalisco readily accepted it for registration, also the INM accepted it.

    Reply
96. anthonykruiser says:

    September 22, 2012 at 7:19 am

    To the gentleman who says Canadians cannot get documents apostilled…, you need to check that out because currently citizenship application requires apostilles of marriage certificate and birth certificate – and these apostilles to be less than 2 years old.

    Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      September 28, 2012 at 7:46 am

      The apostilles you note are in reference to those documents from other countries. Canada, China etc did not join Hague Convention Abolishing the Requirement for Legalisation for Foreign Public Documents

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostille_convention

      Reply
97. Juan Antonio says:

    September 26, 2012 at 9:43 am

    If I’m approved for an FM2 today and the new law comes into affect later this year, how does that affect me?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      September 27, 2012 at 9:01 am

      Juan,
      The new law is expected to come into effect next week according to several news sources.
      We will have to see the new Reglamento and the new INM manual before we know the specifics of the changes.
      You are generally bound by the old rules, except for items like TIP car ownership???
      steve

      Reply
98. John Garvin says:

    September 28, 2012 at 6:54 am

    Here are the new Immigration laws dated today!!!!

    http://dof.gob.mx/copias.php?acc=ajaxPaginas&paginas=todas&seccion=PRIMERA&edicion=248552&ed=MATUTINO&fecha=28/09/2012

    Reply
99. John Garvin says:

    September 28, 2012 at 7:36 am

    The above is PDF and here is WORD which may open faster:
    http://dof.gob.mx/nota_to_imagen_fs.php?cod_diario=248552&pagina=1&seccion=1

    Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      September 28, 2012 at 7:54 am

      October 28th is when they are to come into effect. Yeah, I am married to a Mexican and my visa renews in November…. fingers crossed.

      Reply
      • Solomon Freimuth says:

        September 28, 2012 at 9:29 am

        The calculation I made for the Regulations is for November 12th because Provisional Article Primero says “30 working days”.

        I just published a basic overview of the Regulations on MyMexicanLawyer.com, here:

        http://www.mymexicanlawyer.com/immigration-questions/regulations-for-the-new-immgration-law-ley-de-migracion-2011/

        I am really looking forward to seeing Steve’s interpretation of the law and seeing what parts he sees that I missed (he is good at that).
100. John Garvin says:

     September 28, 2012 at 10:35 am

     Steve you may be right. Spencer in Chapala with whom I believe you communicate noted 30 calendar days. Mine expires Nov 13 so fingers crossed.

     Reply
     • John Garvin says:

       September 28, 2012 at 1:05 pm

       Whoops Solomon.. sorry. And yes 30 business days. Mine expires Nov 13 and I am told the new laws allow me to apply up to 30 days before and the new laws will cover me. Time will tell. Now fingers crossed on being Permanent Resident and keeping NOB plated car.

       Reply
101. Roger Isla says:

     September 28, 2012 at 2:48 pm

     What about the holidays Nov 1 and Nov 2. Or could it be 30 working days (including Saturdays) which would be Nov 5th? And what is your source for allowing you to apply 30 days before and still have the new law cover you?
     We expire Nov 11 of course! Murphy’s law!

     Reply
     • Solomon Freimuth says:

       September 28, 2012 at 9:41 pm

       You are right, I was thinking as per Dias Festivos according to the Labor laws, but there are a few more in the Administrative calendar. Lets say middle of November it comes valid.

       Reply
     • Doug Huffman says:

       September 30, 2012 at 10:24 pm

       Ditto, Roger, Nov 11 here also! I would definitely like clarification of those two questions, soon. Murphy doesn´t SOUND like a Mexican name!

       Reply
102. ajijiclady says:

     September 28, 2012 at 5:14 pm

     I did a Google translation of Article 139 (Residente Permanente) which I know is risky, especially in the realm of international law.

     With that warning, the tranlation puts the word “any” at the beginning to Article 139.

     To those of you with better Spanish skills, especially in the legal realm, do you agree with that translation?

     If so, does that mean that a foreigner meeting any single requirement set out in subsections I through VII can qualify immediately for Residente Permanente status based solely on income, without regard to length of residency in Mexico?

     Here is the Google Translation in English, followed by the Spanish as written:
     Article 139. The status of permanent resident stay under Article 52, section IX, of Law will be awarded to the foreign person that shows any of the following circumstances:

     I. Having recognition of refugee status, granting complementary protection political asylum and statelessness determination in terms of the relevant legislation;
     II. Harving links with Mexican or permanent resident alien, according to the hypothesis family unit in terms of the provisions of Article 55 of the Act;
     III. Being retired or retired with sufficient monthly income to support themselves during their stay in the country;
     IV. That meets the categories and the minimum score required by point system, under the general administrative provisions issued by the Secretariat and will be published in the Official Journal of the Federation;
     V. Having regular migration status for four consecutive years, in the case of residents temporary;
     VI. Having relationship straight up or down to the second degree with Mexican by birth,
     and VII. Having regular migration status for two consecutive years as a temporary resident, provided when the condition of stay has been granted by having spousal or common-law or Mexican equivalent figure or permanent resident and the relationship subsisting.

     Artículo 139. La condición de estancia de residente permanente prevista en el artículo 52, fracción IX, de la Ley se otorgará a la persona extranjera que demuestre alguno de los siguientes supuestos:

     I. Tener reconocimiento de la condición de refugiado, otorgamiento de protección complementaria, asilo político o determinación de apátrida en términos de la legislación en la materia;

     II. Tener vínculo con mexicano o persona extranjera residente permanente, conforme a las hipótesis de unidad familiar en términos de lo previsto en el artículo 55 de la Ley;

     III. Ser pensionado o jubilado con ingresos mensuales suficientes para su manutención durante su estancia en el territorio nacional;

     IV. Que cumple con las categorías y el puntaje mínimo requerido por sistema de puntos, conforme a las disposiciones administrativas de carácter general que emita la Secretaría y que serán publicadas en el Diario Oficial de la Federación;

     V. Tener situación migratoria regular por cuatro años consecutivos, en el caso de los residentes temporales;

     VI. Tener parentesco en línea recta ascendente o descendente hasta el segundo grado con mexicano por nacimiento, y

     VII. Tener situación migratoria regular por dos años consecutivos como residente temporal, siempre y cuando la condición de estancia se haya otorgado por tener relación conyugal o de concubinato o figura equivalente con mexicano o residente permanente y que subsista dicha relación.

     Lo anterior, previo cumplimiento de los requisitos establecidos en las disposiciones administrativas de carácter general que emita la Secretaría y que serán publicadas en el Diario Oficial de la Federación.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 28, 2012 at 10:05 pm

       And so it begins…

       We just had our first grandchild, and are currently in Colorado helping care for newborn Marco Arturo. Between getting our house back into shape after a prolonged absence, and enjoying time with Marco & his mom and dad, we’ve been busy kids.

       A Few of the Changes Affecting Expats:
       A quick scan of Art. 139 confirms one intention of the May 2011 law: Uniting families (Item II of A. 139). One impact on expats is for foreigners who have married Mexicans. This seems to say that spouses immediately qualify for Permanent Residency. This interpretation/implementation of the May 2011 law was not spelled out in the original version of the law.

       Art. 139 Item III is also significant, because it sure seems to say that retired people with sufficient monthly income deposits also qualify for Permanent Residency. This interpretation/implementation of the May 2011 law was not spelled out in the original version of the law, and represents a big shift. Just imagine how many fewer expats there will be at INM offices, if many of the current expat retirees skip the annual hassles of Residente Temporal visas, and instead jump right into Residente Permanente status !

       This change alone will take a lot of stress off of overly-busy INM offices and staff – which may part of why INM chose to add this twist

       Item V addresses only people who have 4 years of Residente Temporal status, which does not clear up our past questions about whether FM2 years or FM3 years might be credited towards the 4 year residency requirement to qualify for Residente Permanente.

       Item VII clarifies a residual bogey from Item II. Some Mexican state Registro Civil offices simply deny almost all requests to recognize and register US weddings. Since many expats married to Mexicans do not have legally registered marriage or legally recognized marriages (in the eyes of Mexican law), the 2 year common-law / concubino clause allowing them to qualify for Residente Permanente is yet another change affecting many of us.

       If you jump to Article 160, another big change lurks to bite expats who stay too long outside of Mexico with expired visas: No se permitirá el ingreso al territorio nacional de las personas extranjeras titulares de un documento que tenga más de cincuenta y cinco días naturales de vencimiento.
       Let your Mexican Residente Temporal expire for 56 days, and you will not be allowed to return back into Mexico….

       This is a substantial tightening of the previous 30 & 60 day grace periods…

       Let’s keep tossing in our individual insights to make a new crisp concise article, to help us and others enjoy and apply the new law well and smoothly, (and to avoid some of the pitfalls in the changes) . As we enter our observations, please cite the Article and Section/Item number references, to make it easy for us to find & cross-check each other’s interpretations.

       I’ll set up the article template tomorrow morning!
       THANKS!
       steve

       Reply
103. Wendy Kasdan says:

     September 30, 2012 at 12:31 pm

     Okay… husband and I obtained our first FM3 cards in Feb. 2012. We will be in Mexico when they expire this Feb.. Must we go outside of the country to renew or to change our status to permanente?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 30, 2012 at 10:12 pm

       Wendy,
       You can apply for the new Residente Temporal in Feb 2013. Do you qualify to apply for Residente Permanente?
       steve

       Reply
104. Wendy Kasdan says:

     September 30, 2012 at 11:22 pm

     Hi Steve, We are both retired with pensions that qualify and own property. If there is a time limit for us to be out of the country like there is for the current FM2, we might not want to become permanent residents.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 1, 2012 at 9:02 am

       Hi Wendy,
       The Reglamentos were just released last week, and the Administrative rulings INM manual has not been released yet – so the monthly $$ income financial requirements have not been established – and we don’t have any specific requirements yet for maintaining Residente Permanente or for Residente Tempora. We should know more by Nov 1 with the release of the new INM manual.
       steve

       Reply
105. Wendy Kasdan says:

     October 1, 2012 at 11:29 am

     Thank you. This website is a lifeline!

     Reply
106. usman says:

     October 2, 2012 at 9:55 am

     Anyone can help me about new rules i listen we can pay upfront 4 years fee for fm2 and not need to pay and go immigration for every year

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 4, 2012 at 9:16 am

       usman,
       There was an allusion to this in the 2012 INM law, but we will have to wait for the INM operations manual to come out to learn the details if this will be available.
       steve

       Reply
       • Ric Hoffman says:

         October 7, 2012 at 7:07 am

         This article in the new regulation, allows 1-4 years visa to be issued with one renewal to complete the four year requirement to allow transition to permanent residency:
         Artículo 156. La tarjeta que acredita la condición de estancia de residente temporal podrá tener una vigencia de uno, dos, tres o cuatro años, contados a partir de que la persona extranjera obtuvo la autorización de la condición de estancia.
         Cuando el residente temporal obtenga un permiso de trabajo, la tarjeta que acredite su condición de estancia tendrá la misma vigencia que la oferta de empleo.
         El titular de esta tarjeta podrá, dentro de los treinta días naturales previos a su vencimiento, solicitar las renovaciones que correspondan hasta completar cuatro años contados a partir de que obtuvo la condición de estancia.
         Las personas extranjeras menores de tres años de edad sólo podrán obtener tarjeta de residencia con vigencia de un año. En estos casos, se deberá solicitar la renovación de dicha tarjeta cada año hasta que cumplan tres años.
         La tarjeta que acredite la condición de estancia de residente temporal implicará el derecho de su titular para realizar entradas y salidas múltiples del territorio nacional.

         New visa fees announced in Article 8, LEY FEDERAL DE DERECHOS 09-04-2012:
         Artículo 8o. Por la expedición del documento migratorio que acredita la condición de estancia se
         pagarán derechos conforme a las siguientes cuotas:
         I. Visitante sin permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas ……………………… $295.00
         II. Visitante con permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas ………………….. $2,350.00
         III. Visitante Regional …………………………………………………………………………………. $295.00
         IV. Visitante Trabajador Fronterizo ………………………………………………………………. $295.00
         V. Visitante con fines de adopción ……………………………………………………………. $2,280.00
         VI. Residente Temporal:
         a). Hasta un año ………………………………………………………………………………. $3,130.00
         b). Dos años ……………………………………………………………………………………. $4,690.00
         c). Tres años …………………………………………………………………………………… $5,940.00
         d). Cuatro años ……………………………………………………………………………….. $7,040.00
         VII. Residente Permanente ……………………………………………………………………….. $3,815.00
107. Mark Topliss says:

     October 3, 2012 at 11:43 am

     My question about Article 139 (Residente Permanente) is a bit different than others on here.
     I wonder how this will affect me as the American father of a Mexican citizen (a 3 year old boy) living in Mexico. I’ve been traveling back and forth between countries since 2008, but never applied for an FM-2 as it seemed like such a pain in ass from what I observed the few times I stopped at the INM office in Toluca. Though recently I had begun looking into moving to Mexico permanently and when I come online to check up on residency requirements I find that everything is in the process of changing. So will it be a change for the better (ie. re-unite families) or will it be just another convoluted application process designed to bring in revenue now that the mordida machine is moving back into Los Pinos after a 12 year absence?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 3, 2012 at 4:12 pm

       Hi Mark,
       As a law-abiding foreigner living in Mexico, I do not comment on anything remotely political due to Constitutional prohibitions on participating in any part of Mexico’s political process. Our government officials in Yucatan have great reputations for being both helpful and pleasant to work with, so, I assume that they will implement the new INN Law and new Reglamentos in fair and good ways.

       The text of both the Law and the Reglamenta make it look like you should be able to apply for the Residente Permanente status, especially if you are officially married to the Mexican mother. If you are a common law Concubino, then there are different standards of proof required. The specific requirements are supposed to be released this month in the form of an operations manual for INM personnel.
       Let’s hope that the news is all good!
       steve

       Reply
108. Charles says:

     October 7, 2012 at 7:24 am

     Are these prices US Dollars or Mexican Pesos ??

     Reply
     • Ric Hoffman says:

       October 7, 2012 at 7:36 am

       Local currency.

       Reply
109. anthonykruiser says:

     October 7, 2012 at 8:57 am

     Hi Steve
     Getting confused (nothing new there then). Two questions: Is my “FM2″ temporary or permanent residency? My FM2 says ” the owner of this document is a resident in Mexico”. As of the laws at this time, if I did not get citizenship after 5 years are expired, what happens then? My friend has “inmigrado” status, his card shows no expiry date and he never has to renew it. But I guess I’ve missed that boat!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 7, 2012 at 9:48 am

       Hi Anthony,
       I think your INM status and prospects for permanent residency are just fine.

       The actual formal name of an “FM2” describes your status: Inmigrante. You are an immigrant resident of Mexico, who is required to have each new year of immigrant status re-approved every year => not a Permanent Resident. The current equivalent to permanent resident status is called Inmigrado.

       Under the “old” (current) law, you apply for citizenship before your last year of FM2 status ends (with 6 months left on your FM2). If you want Inmigrado status, check out our article on this that describes:
       “According to INM’s 2010 Manual: Inmigrado status must be applied-for within the 6 months after the expiration of the 4’th year of the FM2 renewals = after completing all 5 years of the FM2. For application requirements, see: INM’s List of Inmigrado Requirements (http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/tramites/Estancia/Residencia_definitiva/DeclaratoriaInmigrado.pdf) ”
       https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/moving-to-mexico-fmm-fm2-or-fm3/

       This information only applies if you are applying to INM before the 2012 law and its new Reglamento are implemented. If you apply instead under the 2012 INM law’s provisions, you should easily qualify for the new Residente Permanente status.

       When does your FM2 expire?

       If you want to apply for Mexican citizenship, then SRE requires that you have at least 6 months of INM residency left on your INM permit.
       steve

       Reply
110. Ric Hoffman says:

     October 7, 2012 at 9:04 am

     I am surprised that not very much has been mentioned about the residency restrictions being lifted for the Residente Permanente. The new Ley de Migración gives complete responsibility to INM for setting and enforcing the all criteria for the immigrant. All chapter 3 which dealt with immigration requirements and restrictions have been removed from the Ley General de Población with the revision dated 25 May 2011.

     New LGP was revised again on 09/04/2012 and can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/New-LGP-May-2011
     Las derogaciones de las fracciones VII y VIII del artículo 3o. y de los artículos 7 al 75, de la citada ley publicadas en el Diario Oficial de la Federación el 25 de mayo de 2011, entrarán en vigor hasta que se encuentre vigente el Reglamento de la Ley de Migración
     Derogations, items VII and VIII of article 3rd. and articles 7 to 75, of the aforementioned Act published in the Official Gazette of the Federation on May 25, 2011, will enter into force until that force is the regulation of the Migration Act.

     So it appears the only negative to becoming a Residente Permanente is the prohibition concerning foreign plated vehicles under the Aduana laws.

     Reply
     • Howard Feldstein says:

       October 7, 2012 at 9:13 am

       I have lived here over 8 years , 5 under an FM3 and I’m in my 4th year on an FM2. Any idea yet how my application for Residente Permanente needs to be made and how it will be handled? I still have a foreign plated car which I will have to dispose of.

       Thanks, Howard

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         October 7, 2012 at 9:35 am

         Howard,
         You apply for Residente Permanente in the month preceding the expiration date of your current FM2. Based on the details you give, you would seem to qualify, as long as you still can meet the tests for fiscal independence. Since the INM has not yet released an operations manual for the 2012 law and new Reglamento, we don’t know the details of how the process will work.

         As Ric identified, is your expiration date well after the anticipated November kick-off of the new rules?
         steve
       • Howard Feldstein says:

         October 7, 2012 at 12:19 pm

         Yes, my renewal date is well into next year. I have to process a change in status from rentista to non-lucrativo since I’m an officer in an A.C. and was hoping I could combine the two steps, but doesn’t look likely. Howard
111. Ric Hoffman says:

     October 7, 2012 at 9:19 am

     If your next renewal date is after the effective date of the new regulation, you should apply for Residente Permanente. If it is before, then you will apply for your fourth refrendo under the current law and wait another year.

     Reply
112. John Garvin says:

     October 9, 2012 at 7:36 am

     Some are predicting a vehicle amnesty and they say it will happen in November which is common at the end of a President’s reign. Also, I doubt anyone knows for sure if upon receiving Residente Permanente one is no longer allowed to have a foreign plated vehicle. If so, there will be thousands of expats driving to the border to sell their vehicles. Hoping for my Pernanente Residente Nov 13.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 13, 2012 at 11:38 am

       Hi John,
       A vehicle amnesty would be very cool. It is clear from all the changes in the INM rules that they want to encourage expats to come to Mexico – making a lot of things both easier and less stringent. Will Aduana do the same?

       You are exactly right that none of us know how Aduana will decide to adjust their rules to fit the new INM categories.

       BEST of LUCK getting your Residente Permanente !

       Come back and give us a report on the details???
       steve

       Reply
       • John Garvin says:

         October 15, 2012 at 12:11 pm

         Here in SMA we went to Immigration today and staff are in training this moment and expats can apply at beginning of November under the new Immigration laws.
113. Roger Isla says:

     October 15, 2012 at 1:36 pm

     Did they give you an actual date in November?

     Reply
     • John Garvin says:

       October 15, 2012 at 1:43 pm

       Actually, the Immigration officer was counting 30 calendar days from Sept 28. he indicated October 29th. I know many of us think 30 business days but this is what we were told this morning. My wife Is Mexican and is a facilitator and knows this Immigration officer so we believe what he said. I am also seeing on other web boards many Immigration offices saying they won’t be ready for some time but my understanding is it is the law and they have to be ready.

       Reply
114. Roger Isla says:

     October 15, 2012 at 1:56 pm

     Of course, we expire with five years on a No Inmigrante Rentista on November 11. We were told last month that we have to change to Inmigrante rather than renewing in Cancun, known for being the slowest to implement. I don’t care if it takes until after the holidays, if we can be under the new program as a Residente Permanente. Hopefully they all use the same calendar so we can be included this year!

     Reply
115. Roger Isla says:

     October 19, 2012 at 8:36 am

     The October 10th update on this article says numerous INM offices have stated that November 1st is the date. Anyone with specific locations that have stated this date? We are waiting until next month to go over to Cancun INM.

     Reply
     • John Garvin says:

       October 19, 2012 at 8:44 am

       All of Guanajuato state is using November 1 as the date. Actually here in San Miguel they are using October 29th when asked in person.

       Reply
116. Jay says:

     October 20, 2012 at 5:36 pm

     Hi.
     So am I to understand if you renew before this October 29/ November 1, 2012 date (say October 26) that your renewal will fall under the ‘old’ rule in status. Or is that simplistic, and one can apply prior by a few days and if one of those above dates passes during the renewal paperwork process that your application is in the office the ‘new’ rule will be applied to the renewal once it is actually processed?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 20, 2012 at 8:31 pm

       Hi Jay,
       In theory, if you go into your INM office and formally start your application process, and they give you a NUT for an FM3, then you will be processed for an FM3.
       steve

       Reply
117. Jay says:

     October 20, 2012 at 8:40 pm

     Hi Steve- thanks. I guess I just don’t quite understand the pending differences in labels/terms/ card of the FM’s, and was wondering about some of the above comments and their given expiration dates/duration~ I read they were given shorter terms by filing prior to the New Rules (!) being activated.
     I’ll keep you posted– going to proceed prior to the dates -about the 26 th,

     Reply
118. Howard Feldstein says:

     October 20, 2012 at 9:32 pm

     My partners renewal date is Nov. 3 and we’d both like her to renew under the new rules. I think it’s cutting it close to wait until the 1st to complete the online forms assuming the new forms will be ready by then. Agree?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 21, 2012 at 5:37 pm

       Hi Howard,
       The online forms do not officially start the renewal process. The renewal process officially starts when you go to an INM office, register, and get an NUT from them.

       This means that you would need to go into an INM office by Nov. 3. Filing on the expiration date (as long as the INM office is open that day) is as good as filing 2 days or 2 weeks early, as INM does not distinguish between dates of how early one files. If you have a vehicle Temporary Import Permit with a cash deposit, filing on the last day may cause problems with getting a future refund of the deposit from Banjercito, though. Aduana and Banjercito have been confiscating the deposits when they do not receive notification of the INM permit’s new expiration date by 2 weeks after the INM permit’s current expiration date. e.g. Banjercito and Aduana would confiscate any deposit if you do not file with them by Nov 18.
       Steve

       Reply
       • Ric Hoffman says:

         October 21, 2012 at 6:23 pm

         For more information or queries you can contact us through the following means:
         Email Aduana • CIITEV AduanasMexico@sat.gob.mx or
         control.gestionaoa3@sat.gob.mx
         Call toll free-INFOSAT 018004636728 in México
         18774488728 from the USA and Canada

         enter the prompts: 7 – 2 – 2 – 1 – 1
         You may ask for an English speaking agent if needed..
       • Ric Hoffman says:

         October 21, 2012 at 6:46 pm

         I called the INFOSAT number listed below and talked at length with a Sr. Miguel Rojas, in English. The deposit will only be forfeited if you do not comply with paragraph 19 . You do not need to present this notice prior to the Aduana, prior to expiration of your vehicle permit. Your deposit will be returned when you remove your vehicle from Mexico and have complied with the Aduana regulation and manual for importation.
       • yucalandia says:

         October 22, 2012 at 10:47 am

         Good update Ric.

         Unfortunately, when the rubber meets the road ~ when expats actually apply to get their deposits refunded ~ the ones who have not done early or prompt registrations of their new INM permit expiration dates find that Banjercito has officially confiscated the deposit, and that after even 3 months of appeals, phone calls, and letters: Banjercito has not been refunding the deposits for people who do not keep Aduana officially updated.

         Since the updating process is easy, I am a big fan of using government systems in the ways that they actually work, rather than fighting for months with bureaucrats to get them to follow the letter of the rules. Rolly Brook’s contacts at INM and Banjercito have confirmed what we were told by Banjercito supervisors and Aduana managers at their offices at the Chetumal/Belize: Their current operating systems do confiscate deposits on day 15 after the INM permit expiration date… and that they do not have systems to easily recover the deposits after they have been confiscated.

         Just like Washington DC, Congress, and the Pentagon: The officials in Distrito Federal often describe policies that don’t fit conditions in the field.

         Let’s hope that Sr. Rojas gets the word out to Banjercito employees, and gets both Banjercito and Aduana to change their current systems to fit his understandings.
         steve
       • John Garvin says:

         October 22, 2012 at 12:46 pm

         Ric I do not know what Article 19 says but suspect it may state you must have your vehicle out by the date on the car permit. IF true, it means you forfeit your deposit as you have not complied with Article 19. I have known others who went through lawyers after forgetting to inform Aduana when they renewed a FM-3 and since Aduana and Immigration do not communicate they lost their deposit.
119. Howard Feldstein says:

     October 21, 2012 at 6:06 pm

     Steve,
     The online forms, however have you select the reason for the tramite request. They also ask for the NUT from your present credential, if you have one. I have to go to the INM office this week for a change in my status so I’ll ask them for their advise and report back here.
     Howard

     Reply
120. John Garvin says:

     October 21, 2012 at 6:08 pm

     But, will the Chapala office accept Howard’s application on Nov 3, applying the new laws? That is the question several of us are wondering. I am in SMA and now differing stories as to what date will the new law apply. Mine expires Nov 13 and it appears I qualify for Residente Permanente as married to a Mexican etc.

     Reply
121. Ric Hoffman says:

     October 22, 2012 at 1:42 pm

     Bookmark this page: http://www.aduanas.gob.mx/aduana_mexico/2012/descargas/vehiculos/Manual_importacion_temporal_vehiculos.pdf it is the most current copy of the manual which should be used by all Aduana agents and modules.

     Chapter 18 governs the return of the vehicle, Retomo de los vehículos, motocicletas, casas rodantes embarcaciones. Paragraph 18.1 explains how the refund will be processed and when it will be returned to the importer. Paragraph 18.2 lists the reasons for your deposit to be forfeited, (a) When the return of the vehicle at the border crossing and is made after the deadline authorized the temporary import permit. (b) When the foreign importer does not submit to the customs authority, the notice within fifteen working days after having obtained an extension, expansion, endorsement or changing its quality immigration.

     Chapter 19, starting on page 31, governs the permit and Aviso de prórrogas, ampliaciones, refrendos o cambios de calidad migratoria. In order that no guarantee becomes effective in accordance with Rule 4.2.7. RCGMCE as well to extend the term of temporary import permit for vehicles and motorcycles, foreign importers for which they are granted the extension, enlargement, or change endorsement immigration status, must submit a letter to any country’s Customs or to the Central Administration of Customs Operations located at Av Hidalgo No. 77, Module IV, 1 or floor, Col. Guerrero, Cuauhtémoc, Zip 06300, Mexico, Federal District, a notice within 15 (working) days after the date on which they are intended granted, attaching the following documentation:
     a. Copy of the fotocredencial of INM immigration form issued by the importer.
     b. Copy of passport of the importer.
     c. Copy of permit temporary importation of vehicles.

     ********* This letter must be presented at time of final return********

     Paragraph 19.1 describes the transfer of the deposit to the National Treasury and also states that the presentation of an untimely notice of that does not mean that vehicles imported temporarily under Article 106, section IV, paragraph a) of the Customs Act, they are illegal in the country.

     John Garvin said ” I have known others who went through lawyers after forgetting to inform Aduana when they renewed a FM-3 and since Aduana and Immigration do not communicate they lost their deposit.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 22, 2012 at 6:14 pm

       Hi Ric,
       Excellent link!
       Interesting quote from the Aduana manual about mailing in the permit expiration date renewal letter. Ironically, all of the regional Aduana offices have been saying you must go to the Aduana office in person. Similarly for the past 2 years, every internet report we have read from foreigners trying to report their new expiration date via the mail, using the address you list, every single post and report says that their attempts to use the mail-in option failed.

       Our local Aduana office in Progreso and the Aduana office at Chetumal both offer forms for foreigners with TIPs to fill out, and Aduana then prepares a formal letter, on Aduana letter head, that documents the new expiration date, explains that the permit is good for another year, and they say the car owner must keep the letter in the vehicle for the police to inspect at any future stops/retens.

       Do you know anyone who has successfully used the mail-in option described in the manual?
       Did they get printed documentation from Aduana confirming the new expiration date?
       steve

       Reply
122. Ric Hoffman says:

     October 22, 2012 at 8:49 pm

     I do not personally know anyone who has used the mailing address provided in the Aduana manual. The mailing address was provided as a way to submit your letter with supporting documents. I have seen reports posted on various forums saying that some have done so successfully. And yes their requests were duly endorsed when returned.

     I have talked with CIITEV Aduana officials at the telephone number listed with the prompts, found in the manual. So I know the numbers and prompts are accurate.The telephone contact is listed to provide answers to questions concerning the T.I.P such as the closest location of offices authorized to accept such notification letters. Not all Aduana offices are authorized to process these requests or notifications.

     Both Aduana law and operational manual state the letter has to be received not later than 15 working days from the date granting the INM action. There is no mention of any time limit preceding the T.I.P. expiration date. In fact all publications state that the T.I.P is valid as long as your visa status remains current. Any deposit posted either in cash or by credit or debit card will be returned according to chapter 19 of the manual. As you know while your INM tramite is processing, your status remains current if submitted prior to the visa’s expiration date. You must submit the copy you received from the servicing Aduana with their endorsement or official stamp on it when you turn in your T.I.P. to prove your entitlement for the return of your deposit as stated in the manual.

     I encourage all who have deposits pending to personally call the numbers listed for own peace of mind concerning the return of the deposits.

     For those who do not have deposits pending, you are still required to comply with the current manual, although you are not penalized if you do not meet the 15 working days time frame.

     Reply
123. Ric Hoffman says:

     October 23, 2012 at 7:22 am

     Howdy Steve and other followers,

     I am trying to understand where the “15 day prior to T.I.P. expiration date” rule comes from and I think I have found the source. While talking with a couple who winter here they told me they were concerned about losing their deposit when they ran into visa renewal problems. They told me that they were asked to sign an additional form, in English, when they purchased their T.I.P. It stated something to the effect that the deposit would be forfeited if the permit was not renewed 15 days prior to the expiration date. They were not provided a copy of this form however and I cannot validate the information.

     If this is true it brings up a few questions. First, it contradicts the law and operational manual. Second, if it was only printed in English, it has no validity in Mexico whose legal language is Spanish. And third, as with all violations of law; the government has to show the offender the law as published.

     This subject is similar to the stories of someone having their vehicle impounded for T.I.P. violations. I don’t think anyone actually knows one foreigner who’s lost their vehicle under these terms. I have read newspaper accounts of local nationals having their vehicles impounded for illegal importation during annual sweeps or security check points.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 23, 2012 at 8:07 pm

       Ric,
       There never has been a “15 day prior to expiration date” rule.

       The advice to submit your new expiration date to Aduana 15 days before the old expiration date comes from at least 3 separate Aduana offices over 6 months time, in different states, all advising expats who are renewing their expiration dates, to submit the new expiration date as soon as possible. All of these past reports from Aduana agents and Aduana field managers and Banjercito field supervisors mention that they can get their systems to work “for sure”, preserving the deposits if they get notifications up to 15 days before the expiration date.

       Again, this is an issue of how their systems actually work vs. the theoretical world of Distrito Federal bureaucrats and their rules and pronouncements.

       Since the Aduana-Banjercitto communication systems and data logging and data transfer systems take up to 3 weeks (or more) to enter and log the correct renewed expiration date in Banjercito’s $$$ TIP deposit data base, then if a typical expat notifies Aduana of the new expiration date after the old expiration date, then Banjercito’s computer often automatically seizes the deposit – and expats have had very poor success in recovering their deposits once they have been confiscated, even when they follow all the formal rules.

       So, there is no “15 day before expiration date rule”. This has simply been a consistent guideline / advice given by Aduana and Banjercito field agents and field supervisors to help gringos with TIPS to preserve their deposits due to less than perfect systems linking 3 separate computer systems (INM, Aduana, & Banjercito).
       Hope this helps lift the confusion,
       steve

       Reply
       • Ric Hoffman says:

         October 23, 2012 at 8:16 pm

         Steve, the simple fact is it does not matter what happens to the deposit, I think it actually is transferred to the treasury the day after the permit expires. The permit holder should not be concerned either. As long as you show continuity of your status when you turn in your permit, then the deposit will be issued IAW the current law and manual. The proof required is/are the endorsed letters which you turn in with your permit when leaving Mexico.

         All of the stories of refused deposits that I have heard were because the notification letters were not submitted or stamped as being received, with in the 15 working day period as required. Even John Garvin says he was late in submitting his, yet attempted to recover it. How many permit holders do you personally know or have verified accounts of actually losing their deposits? I would guess that once you talked to each one, they would tell you they did not follow the information provided online and on the reverse of the permit. I have heard of a facilitator in SMA who attempted to gain return of a deposit until it was pointed out that the proper notification was not made in a timely manner.

         It is just poor business for Mexico to keep the deposits and I think we would have seen more in the news if this was true.

         This is the answer I received from the officials at Aduana in DF. The highlighted portion states:
         The time allowed to return vehicles were imported temporarily by foreign immigration status of immigrants or non immigrants annuitants, will be the effect of immigration status, its extensions, extensions or endorsements granted to these qualities under immigration law matter. For these purposes the term of temporary import permit of the vehicle will be credited with an official document issued by the immigration authorities, without requiring authorization from the customs authorities, even when the importer has obtained change in immigration status to non immigrant rentier immigrant, temporary import permit will remain in effect as long as there is continuity in the quality migratory also a fact that becomes effective no guarantee granted under the terms of this regulation, within 15 days after the date on for which they are granted the extension, enlargement, endorsement or change of status, must be submitted by writing to any office of the country or ACOA, a notice attesting to that fact, attaching a copy of proof of such proceedings and temporary import permit of the vehicle that letter must be presented at time of final return.

         En relación a su consulta le informamos que la Regla 4.2.7. de las Reglas de Carácter General en Materia de comercio Exterior vigentes establece a la letra lo siguiente:
         El plazo autorizado para retornar los vehículos que hubieran sido importados temporalmente por extranjeros con calidad migratoria de inmigrantes rentistas o de no inmigrantes, será el de la vigencia de la calidad migratoria, sus prórrogas, ampliaciones o refrendos otorgados a dichas calidades migratorias conforme a la ley de la materia. Para estos efectos la vigencia del permiso de importación temporal del vehículo se acreditará con el documento oficial que emita la autoridad migratoria, sin que se requiera autorización de las autoridades aduaneras, aun y cuando el importador haya obtenido cambio en la calidad migratoria de no inmigrante a inmigrante rentista, el permiso de importación temporal se mantendrá vigente siempre que exista continuidad en las calidades migratorias; asimismo, a efecto de que no se haga efectiva la garantía otorgada en los términos de la presente regla, dentro de los 15 días siguientes a aquél en que les hubiere sido otorgada la prórroga, ampliación, refrendo o cambio de calidad migratoria, se deberá presentar mediante escrito ante cualquier aduana del país o a la ACOA, un aviso en el que se haga constar dicha circunstancia, anexando copia del comprobante de dicho trámite y del permiso de importación temporal del vehículo; dicho escrito se deberá presentar al momento de efectuar el retorno definitivo.
       • yucalandia says:

         October 23, 2012 at 8:29 pm

         Hi Ric,
         According to problems recovering their deposits by 4 different people, I am not convinced that:
         ~~~~ ” the simple fact is it does not matter what happens to the deposit ” ~

         Their experience has been that once the deposit is confiscated, it can be very difficult to recover.

         This position is based on the actual experiences of 4 different people, all crossing at different border crossings, using different Banjercito offices – all who had the proper documents in place, but who had filed the new INM permit expiration date with Aduana with only a few days left in the 15 day grace period.

         This position is also based on the direct advice given to me personally by an Aduana field office manager and by a Banjercito field manager. I personally tend to believe field officers, field supervisors, and field managers, over the hypothetical opinions of bureaucrats in central offices back in Washington DC or in Distrito Federal.

         If your position were correct and applied to all expats with imported vehicles, then why are field agents, field supervisors, and field managers at many different offices, giving very different advice than what you are advocating.

         Again, until we get multiple, consistent, solid & reliable reports from expats who have received their deposits, using the proposed new system that an Aduana bureaucrat in Distrito Federal advises, is actually working, then it will be time to for us to change our advice to expats with foreign plated cars with TIPs.

         We do our best to give advice that works for pretty much all people,
         steve
124. Ric Hoffman says:

     October 23, 2012 at 9:24 pm

     So let’s do the math, four out of how many thousands, maybe millions of permits? Based on these numbers I think you should agree the system does work as it is designed. Do you know how many of the four complaints did or did not have the required copy of the approval letter to turn in when they did the final return? Were the letters accompanied with the correct endorsement or other documents? Did they meet the timeline requirements? Were they demanding that their deposit be returned immediately and did not want to wait for the credit or debit card transaction to be processed the following day?

     Those bureaucrats included a copy of regulation governing the permit. And I might also point out that this is the office that directs those outlying offices you rely on. It is also the office that hosts a “hotline” so to speak, to field questions, concerns and complaints on a national level.

     Reply
     • John Garvin says:

       October 24, 2012 at 8:47 am

       I have never attempted to collect. I agree with everything Steve is saying regarding deposits as that is the practice vs the law. My wife as a facilitator clearly tells people to renew visa at least 3 weeks before expiration and then immediately go to Aduana in Queretaro to register your visa and protect your deposit. Those who came in before June 2011 and the implementation of the large deposits usually do nothing which is my situation.
       Also, Spencer who is an American and a Mexican lawyer in Chapala and highly regarded recommends the same as Steve.
       Again, not arguing with the law and like it but the practice is different.

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         October 24, 2012 at 9:33 am

         John,
         Thanks for the updates !

         Since there are variations in how the regional offices act vs. the desires of DF bureaucrats, I think we just have to live with the current realities.

         Hopefully, Aduana and Banjercito will improve their systems to work nationally like the DF’ers want them to work, but in the meantime, we will continue to advise people to use approaches that work.

         I personally would not like to get stung for $400 by trying to make Aduana/Banjercito field offices follow what Ric or I think should be the rules. We also will not re-imburse anyone for a lost $400 due to Banjercito issues. We can only offer advice from Banjercito field managers about the best approaches that have been working to maximize expat’s chances of receiving their deposits.
         steve
125. Phillip Herring says:

     October 24, 2012 at 11:47 am

     There is a very good article on the new immigration law by Enrique Ramírez (Oct. 19, 2012, pp. 22-23). We;ve had the F series in visas, and now comes the R series–basically three visas. The Residente Permanente, the Residente Temporal, and the Visitante. He says that “RP is the equivalent to the current inmigrado status and will be a welcome status to long term residents, as it will have three very important qualities (1) an indefinite time period, (2) will not need to be renewed, and (3) will include the right to work.You will receive the status of Residente Permante if (A) You have the current Inmigrado status; (B) if you are a refugee or have political asylum with a N-Inmigrante status; (C) if you are pensioned or retired and you receive an income that allows you to live in Mexico (an amount yet to be defined; (D) if your child, spouse or parents are Mexican; (E) after two years as Residente Temporal under a point System (yet to be defined; or (F) if you have 4 years as Residente Temporal (taking into consideration previous renewals under the Series I visa structure).” He goes on to define the other terms, but this Residente Permanente will be the most interesting for most of us. What he does not say is whether RP one can keep a foreign-plated car (I would think not), whether one might get a special break on nationalizing a car, or whether one has to drive the car immediately out of the country on receiving the RP visa.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 24, 2012 at 8:49 pm

       Phillip,
       Thanks for sharing a really good summary of Residente Permanente.

       I think that his descriptions match the details in our article (above), written 14 months ago.

       Residente Permanente is not quite the same as the old Inmigrado, because
       ~ Residente Permanente allows one to work; and
       ~ Residente Permanente has much more lenient standards for qualification.

       Do you have a link to Enrique Ramírez’s web reference?
       steve

       Reply
126. Phillip Herring says:

     October 25, 2012 at 6:55 am

     Hi Steve,
     Enrique Ramírez is an immigration lawyer in San Miguel de Allende. There aren’t any links to the articles in “Atención,” the local newspaper (at least that I can see). However, if you will send me your mailing address to my private email account: pfherr36@gmail.com I will send you a copy of the article in question. I already cut out the copy from my own newspaper and sent it to a friend. One can still find copies of the relevant issue today (last day). Phillip

     Reply
127. Sebastian K says:

     October 26, 2012 at 1:25 am

     Wow, I was really excited by how easy it seemed to get an FM3 before the new laws, Now I am very confused! I have been living in mexico for 2 years now and would like to request my tourist visa (FFM?) be changed to FM3 or whatever the new status is. Especially since job opportunities are starting to arise and I would like to be legally able to work in mexico (before I would work a bit in USA and then return).
     It seems before you just needed a TEL-CELL phone bill, bank account with $15,000+ pesos deposited each month, credit card possibly, and a rental lease for apartment from landlord. With these doc’s you could get awarded a FM3 by which you would be legally allowed to live and work in Mexico.
     Is this Correct?
     HOW DOES IT WORK WITH THE NEW LAWS NOW?????
     US CITIZEN.
     Thank you so much for any insight?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 27, 2012 at 3:16 pm

       Hi Sebastian,
       Your understandings of the past systems are partly correct. You could get a non-working FM3 (Rentista – investor or pensioner) with the terms you described. or You could open a business and employ yourself. or You could find a local employer to write you an official letter documenting their plan to hire you, and describing that you would be doing work that that they could not find a Mexican to do. You would also need letters from 2 Mexicans certifying that they know you to have good character.

       It is not yet clear what the new law and new rules will require.

       As a tourist with an FMM, the law as published 15 months ago, requires you to leave Mexico, and apply for residency from outside Mexico (or at the border).
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 27, 2012 at 3:16 pm

       Hi Sebastian,
       Your understandings of the past systems is partly correct. You could get a non-working FM3 (Rentista – investor or pensioner) with the terms you described. or You could open a business and employ yourself. or You could find a local employer to write you an official letter documenting their plan to hire you, and describing that you would be doing work that that they could not find a Mexican to do. You would also need letters from 2 Mexicans certifying that they know you to have good character.

       It is not yet clear what the new law and new rules will require.

       As a tourist with an FMM, the law as published 15 months ago, requires you to leave Mexico, and apply for residency from outside Mexico (or at the border).
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply

128. Pingback: My Blogs : Mexico's New Immigration Laws to be Implemented November 1, 2012.

129. FRED in LEON says:

     October 27, 2012 at 9:13 am

     I have a question…very important to me! i have been in mexico for 10 yrs, as of august 22, 2012. i had FM3 for 5 yrs. and FM2 for 5 yrs.and i am currently in the process of obtaining residencia definitiva. yesterday i was told that they can’t read the stamps in my passport to verify 4 dates that i left mexico, 2008, 2009 and 2012. i was given 10 days to prove when i left mexico by means of airline tickets or boarding passes. who has those from 4 yrs. ago?? any adivce…or do you think it is a plot to make me qualify under the new rules taking affect in november?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 27, 2012 at 3:06 pm

       Hi Fred,
       Since there are limits to how long you can be out of the country, they do need to verify the dates that you left and the dates you returned. This is a good update for those readers who want to immigrate here permanently – to watch the quality/legibility/accuracy of the stamps in your passport.

       Is your passport in pristine shape or is it a bit worn?

       Good Luck,
       steve

       Reply
       • FRED in LEON says:

         October 27, 2012 at 5:22 pm

         two of the dates they are worried about are in an older passport and two are in my new passport from 2009. neither is in bad shape. i even emailed the airlines i used to see if they can provide me with copies of tickets….one, TACA says they purge their system each year so they can’t help. United has not responded.
         Have you heard of this situation before? And how to rectify it? Would a letter from my employer stating that I was here working help me?
130. FRED in LEON says:

     October 27, 2012 at 9:14 am

     PS: i own terreno, have a car loan and work professionally.
     FRED in Leon

     Reply
131. Jo Ana Starr says:

     October 27, 2012 at 11:24 am

     WOW! Lots of information here. I am coming to Merida 1/3/13 to file for my FM2 non-working visa, or that was the plan. Will I still be able to do so now since the law seems to say that I can’t upgrade an FMM to a FM3?

     I would like to know what steps to take now to begin the process of getting my first FM3 or whatever version of that operating on 1/3/13?

     Thanks in advance!
     Jo Ana

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 27, 2012 at 3:03 pm

       Hi Jo Ana,
       If you want something longer term than a 6 month tourist visa, you will need to go to a Mexican Consulate near your home and apply for a Residente Temporal before you fly in. After you arrive in Mexico, you will have 2 weeks to go to an INM office and complete your Residente Temporal permit process.

       Alternately, if you drive in, you will apply for the Residente Temporal while at the INM border crossing office before you enter Mexico.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
132. Jo Ana Starr says:

     October 27, 2012 at 6:09 pm

     HI ! Thanks so much for you reply! I live in the US about 6 hours from the nearest Consulate. Each way. Flying into Cancun from MCO takes in total 90 minutes. What happens to tourists who just fly into MX? Are they allowed to enter under the new regs?

     Thanks!

     Reply
133. Jo Ana Starr says:

     October 27, 2012 at 6:27 pm

     Hello again! I just checked and there is a consulate in Orlando, FL. Their website is entirely in Spanish, so it’s not so helpful for me. I will call them on Monday and find out if they know anything about this new law. I was planning to spend 4 months in MX this winter and again, I’d like to know if the old tourist visa that was available at the airport is still in operation, for those who just fly in. Thanks!

     Jo Ana

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 27, 2012 at 7:13 pm

       Yes, you can almost automatically get a 6 month tourist visa with a passport and a round trip ticket.
       steve

       Reply
134. Jo Ana Starr says:

     October 27, 2012 at 7:53 pm

     Hi Steve! If I just get the airport visa which is now a part of the airline ticket from the US, can I apply for the transitional visa once inside MX to then apply for one of the new longer term visa?
     Thanks! Jo Ana

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 28, 2012 at 11:19 am

       Hi Jo Ana,
       No.
       Applications for either temporary residency or permanent residency must be made outside of Mexico.

       As described 14 months ago in the article on the “New” INM Law, no more converting tourist visas into residency visas: You must go to a Mexican Consulate or do it at the border before entering Mexico.
       steve

       Reply
135. Roger Isla says:

     October 28, 2012 at 11:48 am

     Wouldn’t doing it at the border or at the Mexican airport, just be having the INM agent mark the FMM tourist visa “Visa for exchange for FM3(Non-Immigrant)” or the other box “Visa for exchange for FM2 (Inmigrant) in the OFFICIAL USE part of the current FMM form?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 28, 2012 at 2:51 pm

       Hi Roger,
       The INM offices at airports are not full service, they only check in passengers. They do not register residency applications.

       Since the new procedures for residency do not start until sometime in November, none of us know exactly what boxes they will have us check, but direct first person reports from Mexican Consulates and from regional INM offices are definitely saying that foreigners wanting to apply for residency in Mexico must apply at either a Consulate or at a full service INM office at the border before officially entering Mexico.

       After applying outside of Mexico, to start the process, the applicant still must then go to a full service INM office within Mexico, near their residency, and complete the application process to get either Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
136. John Garvin says:

     November 1, 2012 at 3:09 pm

     In San Miguel, on Friday November 9th they will start implementing the new laws. Few details available.

     Reply
     • John Garvin says:

       November 1, 2012 at 7:04 pm

       And Jalisco along with Guanajuato state are going with November 9th.

       Reply
137. Wendy Kasdan says:

     November 2, 2012 at 7:50 am

     Our lawyer says he will know on November 9th, also (Cancun)

     Reply
138. kikipushinthirty says:

     November 3, 2012 at 7:57 am

     Hello, under this new law, do you know what the costs are for renewal of the formerly named FM3? I’ve found information about applying for 1-4 years (first time applicants), but nothing yet about a simple renewal for 1 year. Thank you in advance!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 4, 2012 at 11:06 am

       Hi Kiki,
       Visa fees from Article 80, Ley Federal de Derechos (D.O.F. Sept. 4, 2012):
       Artículo 8o. Por la expedición del documento migratorio que acredita la condición de estancia se
       pagarán derechos conforme a las siguientes cuotas:
       I. Visitante sin permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas ……………………… $295.00
       II. Visitante con permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas ………………… $2,350.00
       III. Visitante Regional ………………………………………………………………………………… $295.00
       IV. Visitante Trabajador Fronterizo ……………………………………………………………… $295.00
       V. Visitante con fines de adopción …………………………………………………………… $2,280.00
       VI. Residente Temporal:
       a). Hasta un año ………………………………………………………………………………. $3,130.00
       b). Dos años …………………………………………………………………………………… $4,690.00
       c). Tres años …………………………………………………………………………………… $5,940.00
       d). Cuatro años ……………………………………………………………………………… $7,040.00
       VII. Residente Permanente …………………………………………………… $3,815.00

       I bolded the part that answers your question.
       steve

       Reply
139. Roger Isla says:

     November 4, 2012 at 11:35 am

     Rolly Brook and others are citing 9 Noviembre 2012 as the date.Morelia, Michoacan INM office posted this:

     The text of the notice is posted below:

     Para conocimiento del público usuario:

     Nueva Ley de migración

     Se les informa que a partir del día 09 de Noviembre del presente año entra en vigor la nueva ley de migración y su reglamento, por tal motivo se les exhorta a conocerla para que tengan conocimiento de sus nuevos derechos y obligaciones, ya que esta ley contempla un gran número de cambios en los trámites migratorios que ustedes conocen, tal es el caso del artículo 9 que a continuación se cita:

     Articulo 9. Los jueces y oficiales del registro civil no podrán negar a los migrantes, independientemente de su situación migratoria, la autorización de los actos de estado civil ni la expedición de las actas relativas a nacimento, reconocimiento de hijos, matrimonio, divorcio y muerte.

     Ustedes pueden encontrar dicha ley y su reglamento en la página de internet:

     http://www.diputados.gob.mx

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 4, 2012 at 7:25 pm

       When we passed through Aduana in Q. Roo yesterday, the Aduana agents said that their offices would start using the May 2012 INM law & new Reglamento on Nov 9 also.

       We talked with 4 different agents, to get different viewpoints on the issue of whether FM2 (Inmigrante status) years would “count” towards qualifying for Residente Permanente, and 2 of the agents said: ” Yes .” The other 2 agents said that they were under supervisor’s orders to “Make No Comments” about that issue.

       The 2 agents who said 4 Inmigrante/FM2 years would qualify for the Residente Permanente, also said that FM3 (No Inmigrante) years will NOT qualify or count towards Residente Permanente. They said anyone with an FM3 would have to go to Residente Permanente Temporal.

       We will wait and see if the 2 talkative agents were correct.
       steve

       Reply
140. John Garvin says:

     November 4, 2012 at 7:52 pm

     Steve you said: “They said anyone with an FM3 would have to go to Residente Permanente.” Do you not mean Residente Temporary?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 4, 2012 at 10:59 pm

       John,
       We had a long travel day yesterday, leaving me tired when I wrote the reply. You are exactly right.
       I edited the previous post to reflect your good observation. Thanks!
       steve

       Reply
141. kikipushinthirty says:

     November 5, 2012 at 7:01 am

     Thanks for your reply about the costs. I’m assuming then that it doesn’t matter wether we are renewing or applying for the first time, we still have to pay those amounts. 😦 In that case my husband and I are thinking of just getting the tourist permit instead of renewing our FM3 (formerly named tourist & fm3). With this new law, do you know if there will be any limits to the number of times you can get a tourist permit? Can I continue to get a new tourist permit at the border every 6 months or will I be forced to get the FM3 eventually? Thanks so much for all of your help and quick responses. 🙂

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 6, 2012 at 7:14 am

       Hi Kiki,
       According to our Merida INM personnel, you can keep getting a series of tourist visas, as long as you leave the country to get them.
       steve

       Reply
       • kikipushinthirty says:

         November 6, 2012 at 7:40 am

         Great! Thanks so much for your help Steve. I love your site. 🙂
142. John Garvin says:

     November 5, 2012 at 7:31 am

     Having had 2 years on “FM-2” (plus 2 on a FM-3) I am wondering if by being married to a Mexican for the past 22 months means I do not have to prove income to gain Permanent Resident status? And, also, will I actually be qualified for it simply through marriage? On Friday we will start to get these answers.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 6, 2012 at 7:13 am

       Hi John,
       If the answers we got from 2 of the Cancun INM agents are correct, your 2 completed years of an FM2, plus being legally married to a Mexicana would meet the new law’s requirements for 2 years of Residente Temporal for spouses of Mexican citizens. Friday it is…
       Best of luck, and thanks for the very good updates.
       steve

       Reply
143. Roger Isla says:

     November 5, 2012 at 3:14 pm

     I spoke with Cancun INM on the phone this afternoon and they said that the new laws go into effect on November 9th. We will be there with a ream of paper and hopeful and thankful attitudes! Wish us luck!

     Reply
144. Roger Isla says:

     November 6, 2012 at 7:48 am

     Have you heard whether 5 years on an FM3 will automatically qualify us as Residente Permanente? Or do we need to show money deposits at our local bank? Has the 400 times days wages been retained for Residente Permanente? Or are they requiring proof of a retirement deposit monthly? Any clarification before we go in Friday before our expiration on Sunday is appreciated!

     Reply
145. Roger Isla says:

     November 6, 2012 at 8:00 am

     My final question at least on this writing: Does INM still intend on giving a 50% reduction of income requirement for dependents and home ownership on the residente permanente visa?

     Reply
146. John Garvin says:

     November 7, 2012 at 9:53 am

     In speaking with Immigration staff today, it appears to get a Permanent Resident status and married to a Mexican one has to show a FM-2 with family status for 2 years. After we married I never changed my FM-2 to “family” and that is all they will accept regardless of time married. My FM-3 expires Nov 13. I wonder what income I have to prove when married to a Mexican? And is it her income or mine?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 7, 2012 at 11:43 am

       Hi John,
       The rule about 2 years of Inmigrante Familiar, to qualify for citizenship when married to a Mexican have been in place since May 2010. I personally changed in 2010 to Inmigrante Familiar from a prior FM3 Lucrativo, due to this rule. I actually applied and qualified for the free (gratis) Inmigrante visa as a scientist doing substantial proffesional work contributing to the betterment of Mexico, but when INM agents explained that the Inmigrante Cientifico category did not lead to early citizenship, I changed to the Familiar status.

       The specific requirements for meeting the financial independence requirement vary by regional INM offices. It is a financial independence requrement, not just an income requirement since substantial savings/investment accounts balances or substantial investment in Mexico also meet the requirements. $1,500 USD a month in pension income or other monthly income is usually sufficient.

       Still, some individual INM regional offices are rejecting simple bank account statements in your name that show $1,500 a month in deposits. Many many gringos were playing the float – transferring money from one account to a different account and then back to the original account – to artificially create $1,500 in deposits, when there really was NO net $1,500 in income. To get around this gringo cheating, some INM offices have changed to instead requiring a letter from the bank saying that you are receiving monthly automatic deposits, specifically citing some former employer, or from a pension fund, or from SSI – not just deposits from shuffling cash.

       Since the principle has not changed for stopping gringos from shuffling cash between accounts to show artificially high monthly total deposits, some individual regional INM offices will likely continue to require the higher standard of proof, as a letter from the bank on bank-stationery and bank letterhead.

       Yes, your wife’s regular income, proven by monthly deposits from her employer or business, deposits made into an account on which you have full signature authority (preferably in your name), do qualify. If you want to use an account in her name, we had to get multiple special letters from the bank confirming that I was on the account, and letters from my wife documenting that she promised to continue to be financially responsible for me (… Inmigrante Familiar…)
       steve

       Reply
       • John Garvin says:

         November 7, 2012 at 12:45 pm

         Thanks Steve
         Here in San Miguel you have to prove source of income as you state. In other words a confirmation letter from SS, Canadian pension sources, or a bank letter stating you get deposits of $x from “Y” source on a continuing basis. Many banks NOB have a fee or some won’t even do it.
         I have more than enough income but today, Immigration staff who seem totally confused stated I had to prove her income in her name. Well, she does not work although we do have a joint Bancomer account. Another twist is Bancomer only prints statements in my name even though joint and this is common practice of Bancomer everywhere… geesh where are your IT people. They say both names is impossible but will write a letter. And, my income goes into a Canadian account. They sure do not make it easy.
         I could become Inmigrado after 2 years of marriage but not Residente Permanente, oddly.
         In some places total pandemonium. In Chapala all applicants are told to come back next Wednesday and nothing is processed. They openly stated they are confused. lol
       • yucalandia says:

         November 7, 2012 at 6:28 pm

         John,
         What a good report.

         Your details confirm exactly what we have experienced and what we have read from other reliable expats across Mexico.

         Re Residente Permanente for Spouses of Mexicans:
         The 2012 INM law and the Reglamento both specify that legal spouses of Mexican citizens are eligible for Residente Permanente.

         The new law has many many provisions to keep families together.

         By the letter of the law, if you are married to a Mexican citizen, and the marriage was legally approved by a Registro Civil office in Mexico, then you qualify for Residente Permanente (after 2 years of Residente Temporal, according to the Reglamento in Article 141 as pointed out by Sr. Garvin). (Edited to correct content, Nov 8, 2011.)
         steve
147. Roger Isla says:

     November 7, 2012 at 12:03 pm

     If the letter written in Spanish is from a USA bank, can it be emailed as a PDF file and printed showing signature and letterhead from the USA bank? Are the income requirements for Residente Permanente the same as Immigrante currently with reduction for home ownership and dependents? We will report what we find at the Cancun INM office on Friday. Thanks!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 7, 2012 at 6:20 pm

       Hi Roger,
       There are no published income requirements yet for Residente Permanente, though the principle of proving financial independence is in the 2012 INM law & Reglamento. Experts in this area expect the INM to keep similar mulipliers of the minimum daily wage in Mexico City, to determine the monthly minimum income requirements for foreigners to be financially independent (not needing the aid of the Mexican Gob.). Keeping the same ratio between the Mexico City minimum daily wage and monthly income for gringos, translates to about $1,500 a month for gringos wanting Residente Permanente.

       Still, none of us will know the exact figures until Nov. 9, or later.
       steve

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 7, 2012 at 6:39 pm

       Roger,
       You may have misunderstood my over*long, convoluted answer. Each INM regional office can set their own requirements. Our regional office in Merida, Yucatan, accepts bank statements with $1500 USD in monthly deposits. Other offices require printed letters from the bank.

       Please check with your local INM office to find out what exact documentation they require. e.g. Our Merida INM office accepts statements from US banks, UN-TRANSLATED, as long as I circle the beginning and ending dates, and circle the deposit amounts, and circle my name.

       Other INM offices require official translations of English statements into Spanish.

       Still other INM offices require special letters from the bank.

       We do not know the future rules of your regional INM office, so, we can only offer practical cautions as to what they may require. Since PDF files can be manipulated, your INM office may not accept them. or Alternately, your office may be content with a simple bank statement or investment company statement. Frankly, our very tolerant INM staff in Merida have accepted foto-copies of US Visa and Master Cards as proof of financial independence.

       Talk with your own INM office after they implement the new procedures on Nov. 9, and give us a shout with a detailed description on how things work with your office – as a help to other readers.
       steve

       Reply
148. John Garvin says:

     November 7, 2012 at 6:37 pm

     Steve based on your interpretation, being married to a Mexican should be all it takes to qualify for Permanente Residente, true? Neither income nor years married should be a factor. And, years with a previous visa should not be factors. Correct? Do you have that is Spanish so iI can show Immigration? Thanks for all you do for us.

     Reply
     • John Garvin says:

       November 7, 2012 at 6:39 pm

       Steve and yes legally approved by a Registro Civil office in Mexico.

       Reply
       • John Garvin says:

         November 7, 2012 at 8:10 pm

         Article 141 I believe states the expat has to have lived legally in Mexico 2 years (FM-2/3 for 2 years) and been with his / her spouse married or common-law for two years. The Mexican partner has to prove they are Mexican. There is no mention of income which makes sense.
       • yucalandia says:

         November 8, 2012 at 8:04 am

         John,
         Thanks for the good update (aka reminder).

         You are correct that Article 141 of the Reglamento does specify a 2 year requirement of Residente Temporal. I have edited my prior post to correct any future misperceptions that might be created from reading only part of the comments. (I am a bit of a dope, since our original article above described exactly what John pointed out about needing to complete 2 years of marriage and Residente Temporal to qualify. – *grin* )
         steve
149. Solomon Freimuth says:

     November 8, 2012 at 11:15 am

     Hey Steve,
     SEGOB published some supporting regulations in the DOF today. Actually, they published a bunch of supporting regulations today. Here is my take on the part about getting Residency:

     http://www.mymexicanlawyer.com/immigration-questions/living-in-mexico-getting-a-non-working-residency-card-not-an-fm3fm2/

     I’ll publish more as I get the time to analyze and write, but for now if anyone wants to look at some of the new “lineamientos” they can do so here:

     http://dof.gob.mx/nota_to_doc.php?codnota=5276968
     http://dof.gob.mx/nota_to_doc.php?codnota=5276964

     Pictures of what the new documents and applications are going to look like are published here:

     http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5276971&fecha=08/11/2012

     Some of the ambiguous income requirements in the Reglamento were cleared up in the “lineamientos”: Pensionados will have to earn 500 SMG (~$2400 USD) per month in order to qualify for Permanent Resident…

     Warm regards!
     Solomon

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 8, 2012 at 11:55 am

       Superb !

       Reply

150. Pingback: Updated Mexican Immigration Rules | Surviving Yucatan

151. John Garvin says:

     November 8, 2012 at 3:02 pm

     I do not see how an expat by being married to a Mexican gains Permanent Resident status solely by virtue of the marriage. Am I missing something?

     Reply
152. John Garvin says:

     November 8, 2012 at 3:06 pm

     I do not see how X years as a Temp resident gets you to Permanent Resident.

     Reply
153. Ric Hoffman says:

     November 8, 2012 at 3:16 pm

     Artículo 44. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, de residente temporal a residente permanente:

     Aplicable al titular de la condición de estancia de residente temporal que desea residir en territorio nacional de manera permanente y acredita encontrarse en los supuestos señalados en el apartado de criterios de la presente ficha de trámite.
     ….6. En caso de que hayan transcurrido cuatro años desde que cuenta con permiso de residente temporal,
     deberá indicar expresamente en su solicitud de trámite que solicita el cambio por esta vía.

     Reply
     • John Garvin says:

       November 8, 2012 at 3:36 pm

       Thanks Rick .. 4 years

       Reply
154. Roger Isla says:

     November 8, 2012 at 3:16 pm

     http://www.mymexicanlawyer.com/immigration-questions/living-in-mexico-getting-a-non-working-residency-card-not-an-fm3fm2/

     Reply
155. John Garvin says:

     November 8, 2012 at 3:34 pm

     is the $1950 for a single person and also the same for a couple? I am starting to think so. They do not differentiate.

     Reply
     • Solomon Freimuth says:

       November 8, 2012 at 10:37 pm

       Its all in the fine print. $1950 for one person to get XXX Residence based on income, then another 100 SMG ($62.3 x 100 = $6230 pesos or $500 USD) for XXX Residence based on a bond with another XXX Resident.

       Reply
       • John Garvin says:

         November 9, 2012 at 6:26 am

         Solomon please explain.

         My wife works as a facilitator in San Miguel. Many will singles will never qualify. One lady this week is simply letting her visa expire and will stay here. I am sure there are lots of others. Then again one should try moving to the US and almost impossible.
       • Solomon Freimuth says:

         November 9, 2012 at 8:05 am

         Here is how I read it: First, keep in mind that the procedures are independent of one another: Mr. Smith & Mrs. Smith are married, but Mr. Smith’s & Mrs. Smith each have a SEPARATE procedure for getting approval for their Residency.

         This can be accomplished in various different ways:

         1. Mr. Smith can apply for Residency and show that he is eligible by proving that he has income of $XXX by showing the account statement for bank account XXX-123, he should be approved for a Resident visa of some kind. Mrs. Smith can ALSO apply for residency and show that she is eligible by proving that she has income of $XXX by showing the account statement for bank account XXX-123. The consulate isn’t going to check that the $XXX monthly income shown by Mr. Smith isn’t the same $XXX monthly income shown by Mrs. Smith. All they want to see is money coming in.

         2. If for some reason one of the spouses can’t show income (their name isn’t on the bank account), then they can apply for Residency based on the Residency of their spouse, in which case they just need to show that the foreigner (Resident) who is maintaining them has income of 100 SMG ($500 USD). So, going back to the Smiths, Mrs. Smith has been an advertising exec during the last 40 years, but Mr. Smith is sort of a bum, so she never included him on the bank account for fear of him spending the money on hard drink and loose women. Now that they want to move to Mexico, she can show a pension and money in the bank, but he has just been a moocher for 40 years: Mrs. Smith will apply for Resident based on HER income, then Mr. Smith will apply for resident based on the fact that his loving wife has Residency and will show that she is going to maintain him in Mexico with HER income.

         That said, I always try to show the income requirements separately: in the years that I have been doing FM3/2’s, I don’t recall ever getting any spouse a document as a dependent.

         As for you John, I am not sure if the 2 years with an FM2 will apply for your 2 years as Temporary Resident or not. I think it should, but you might have a hard time convincing the clerk at INM (not a lawyer) of that. Let us know how it works out.

         Solomon
156. John Garvin says:

     November 9, 2012 at 6:33 am

     Solomon, on Monday I have to go in myself, married to a Mexican and even the answers from Immigration are all over the map.I am seeking Permanent Residence; married 22 months, together 4 years, 2 years on FM-2, 2 years on FM-3. Income well beyond Permanent Resident level. BUT… do I qualify?

     Thanks

     Reply
157. John Garvin says:

     November 9, 2012 at 6:48 am

     Solomons are your real estate values correct? Is it not 120,000 X’s the minimum daily wage in D.F.?

     Reply
     • Solomon Freimuth says:

       November 9, 2012 at 8:17 am

       Tramite 5>Requisitos>Frac. 4e says 40,000 SMG. Did you see 120,000 SMG somewhere else?

       Reply
       • John Garvin says:

         November 9, 2012 at 8:39 am

         On chapala.com web board I am seeing others using an amount equivalent to about $95,000 for a house. 120,000 x DF minimum wage. And, how do you prove house value?

         The big issue for those on SS is that is approx 1200 a month and now many do not qualify as a single person. There are thousands of very nervous expats today.
       • yucalandia says:

         November 9, 2012 at 9:17 am

         The current official value (using the current DF general minimum wage value of $63.33/day) is $2,493,192 pesos for qualifying real property.

         $95,000 USD is roughly the amount to prove financial independence for Residente Temporal using the 12 months of Average Monthly Balances.

         $192,000 – $200,000 USD is a good beginning range, depending on what exchange rate you use. BETTER STILL: Follow Solomon’s advice, and use the formal/official value in MXN pesos (“You prove the value of the house with “escritura publica”, which is your deed.”)

         I suspect that the Chapala board posters are likely mis-parroting something they read on another board/site, since the Lineamientos (“Manual”) sections on this are very clear, (see Article 41 Lineamientos) and are easily translated by Google. Note that Google does seriously mis-translate some items, so, it is best to always cross check Google’s stuff vs the original Spanish versions.

         e.g. Some expat websites are reporting the following mis-translation from the Lineamientos:
         Original: “ii. Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes equivalentes a cuatrocientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal …”

         get mis-published by some sites as:
         “ii. Original and copies of documents showing that employment has monthly income or pension unencumbered equivalent to four days of general minimum wage in the Federal District …

         Too funny….!
       • Solomon Freimuth says:

         November 9, 2012 at 8:49 am

         Minimum wage in el DF is $62.3 pesos. 120000 SMG is $7,440,000 pesos, or about $595,000 USD. I didn’t see that anywhere. You prove the value of the house with “escritura publica”, which is your deed.
     • yucalandia says:

       November 9, 2012 at 8:28 am

       Depending on what exchange rate you use, the real estate value (specified in Article 43 Lineamientos) ranges around $195,000 USD.

       I cleaned up the sections on Monthly Income, Monthly Deposits, Average Monthly Balance, and Real Estate Holdings to qualify for Residency to better specify the T’s & C’s for proving financial independence, separately for Residente Temporal and Residente Permanente.

       Reply
158. John Garvin says:

     November 9, 2012 at 9:30 am

     Solomon many many thanks for all this information… truly appreciated.

     And of course thanks to Yucalandia. Lots of anxiety by people but what a great source of information.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 9, 2012 at 9:52 am

       Agreed !

       Solomon is a gem.

       Fortunately, both he and I believe that collaborations make for better results. His website is very good, with accurate, solid, reliable and complete information ~ which differentiates it from a lot of “How To…” sites on the web.

       Reply
159. John Garvin says:

     November 9, 2012 at 10:53 am

     Can an expat who makes $2400 / month become a Permanent Resident with out first being a Temporary Resident?

     At one time I read if you were a legal resident in Mexico for 4 years you would be come a Permanent resident. Is this true?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 9, 2012 at 12:29 pm

       An unofficial explanation last week from 2 INM agents in Cancan said that INM was including years completed on a current FM2 as qualifying as years with Residente Temporal. In a hypothetical example, if you have completed 4 years on your current FM2 (Inmigrante), then you could qualify to apply for Residente Permanente.

       Reply
160. John Garvin says:

     November 9, 2012 at 5:36 pm

     The head of Immigration for Guanajuato state Lic. Clemente Villalpando P. Delegado Federal,
     Delegación Federal Guanajuato a few minutes ago answered via email a question for my wife. Marriage to a Mexican only gets you to a Temporary Resident status. Time on a FM-3 does not count towards Permanent Resident or time on a FM-2. I may disagree but that is his position.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 10, 2012 at 7:57 am

       Bummer that the FM2 time does not contribute to meeting the 4 year Residente Temporal requirement. I hope that this interpretation does not hold up nationwide.

       Reply
161. John Garvin says:

     November 9, 2012 at 5:51 pm

     I also wrote to him under my email address and included in my email was the following:
     “Please note the income required for a Temporary Resident of $1950 for a single person per month is a 50% increase from the requirement of what we called a FM-2. Canadian government pensions and US Social security are typically $1300 to $1400. This $1950 per month (25000 pesos) is more than the majority of the Mexican population. This means literally thousands and thousand of expats will have to leave. Others, will simply not renew their visa and stay here illegally. This week I know of two people who are doing so and many others reported to intend to do the same. Mexico is the home for hundreds of thousands of expats. We appreciate being here but for some such a large increase in monthly income is very serious for many and they do not qualify.”

     Also, in the same email before my wife received her response, I wrote:
     “To be a Permanent Resident is time counted with a FM-3 and a FM-2? I have 2 years with a FM-3 and two years with a FM-3.

     I believe the law includes time with a FM-3 which is a temporary resident as the law I believe states:
     Artículo 44. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, de residente temporal a residente permanente:
     Aplicable al titular de la condición de estancia de residente temporal que desea residir en territorio nacional de manera permanente y acredita encontrarse en los supuestos señalados en el apartado de criterios de la presente ficha de trámite.

     ….6. En caso de que hayan transcurrido cuatro años desde que cuenta con permiso de residente temporal,
     deberá indicar expresamente en su solicitud de trámite que solicita el cambio por esta vía.”

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 10, 2012 at 8:00 am

       Unfortunately, the term “residente temporal” in item 6 of Article 44, has a specific legal meaning. In the 2012 INM law it refers to a specific INM status of a person with a residente temporal permit. There is no mention of Inmigrante or No Inmigrante in the lineamentos/manual.

       Reply
162. John Garvin says:

     November 9, 2012 at 6:08 pm

     whoops …should be what was called a FM-3

     Reply
163. andres says:

     November 9, 2012 at 6:46 pm

     hola , quisiera saber si los cubanos q se encuentran en mexico detenidos actualmente se benefician con estas nuevas leyes y no seran deportados hacia cuba ? gracias

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 10, 2012 at 8:03 am

       Possibly. It depends on whether they meet one of the many criteria stipulated in the 2012 law, the Reglamento, or the Lineamientos. Most of the changes in INM policy address protecting the civil rights of foreigners, including Cubanos.

       Reply
164. John Garvin says:

     November 10, 2012 at 8:18 am

     Steve and Solomon do you interpret the law to mean time with both a FM-3 and FM-2 (Inmigrante) should be counted towards obtaining Permanent Resident status or just the Inmigrante (FM-2)?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 10, 2012 at 6:49 pm

       The way the Reglamento and the Lineamientos are written, specifying 4 years of “residente temporal” before general applications for Residente Permanente seems to shut the door on using FM2 or FM3 years. If either document had used the word “inmigrante” or “no inmigrante” in their descriptions of qualifying for Residente Permanente, then I would hold out more hope.

       2 different regional INM directors have said that neither FM2 nor FM3 years count towards the 4 years of “residente temporal” status. I am off to check the Transitorios Sexto section of the 2012 law to see if there is any wiggle room on this.
       *sigh*
       steve

       Reply
       • John Garvin says:

         November 10, 2012 at 6:58 pm

         In just having called the Hotline the time on a FM-3 does not count. Time on a FM-2 does count towards Permanent Resident.
       • yucalandia says:

         November 10, 2012 at 7:34 pm

         GREAT !

         Let’s hope that Regional INM offices across Mexico adopt this policy!
         steve
165. John Garvin says:

     November 10, 2012 at 12:46 pm

     If a snowbird (Canadian / American) is coming in for 5 or 6 months is anything different now? In other words, do they have to prove income or assets or ? I ask as some are posting this but find it hard to believe.

     Reply
166. Bud Godley says:

     November 10, 2012 at 2:33 pm

     My neighbor went into INM (merida) on the 9th … under the old rules, to change her FM3 into an FM2…but waited until Friday to get in under the new rules. She stopped by afterwards and told me …
     As usual, they were incredibly helpful (she doesn’t speak much Spanish), helped her with new forms under the new rules and asked her to come back in on Monday to submit her forms. After asking about permanent residency, she was also told after THREE renewals of her new form/card/status, she would be eligible to apply for permanent resident. And also advised to be patient as she may not actually receive her new card until as late as Jan 20.
     All of this is just as new to them as it is to us … and they are working very hard to comply with the new regs. and get things right the FIRST time. The job has to be stressful! While it all may be a little confusing right now, it will all seem mundane and routine soon enough.

     Thank you ALL for all of the helpful info. that has been posted about the new regs. … This site certainly has my respect!!!!!!!

     Reply
167. John Garvin says:

     November 10, 2012 at 6:56 pm

     Immigration Hotline

     01-800-004-6264

     24 hours / day and 7 days a week.

     They answer quickly and a few speak English.

     Reply
     • John Garvin says:

       November 10, 2012 at 9:00 pm

       whoops you need a 0 in front so 01-800-004-6264

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         November 10, 2012 at 10:10 pm

         Done
168. kikipushinthirty says:

     November 11, 2012 at 6:54 pm

     HI again! Can anyone provide me with a list of the needed documents for the new fm3 (one year). Are the required docs the same as before or has that also changed? Thank you!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 11, 2012 at 9:07 pm

       Full details on the New Rules for Immigration, Visiting, or Residing in Mexico are now at:
       https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/

       Residente Temporal is the new equivalent to the old FM3 (and also FM2):
       Residente Temporal is the INM permit for people who want to stay in México for more than 180 days. The Residente Temporal can be purchased for 1 year or up to 4 years. INM will continue to use laminated picture IDs for Residente Temporal permit holders.

       If you are already in Mexico with an FM3 or FM2, you start by applying for your Residente Temporal online, and then go to your local INM office.

       If you are outside Mexico, with no FM3 nor FM2, then you apply for a Visitante visa at your local Mexican Consulate.

       When you take your documents to your local INM office inside Mexico, you should take the items listed above in the article above:

       1. A letter addressed to your INM office’s delegado requesting the type of visa you want (see below). Note: ” Residente Temporal ” (described below) is the official name of the category that corresponds to the old FM3 No Inmigrante and the old FM2 Inmigrante).
       2. Your passport and copies of the first key pages of your passport,
       3. A copy of a comprobante (Telmex, JAPAY, CFE etc bill) to prove your address (or renters can bring a letter from your landlord),
       4. Copies of the most recent 6 or 12 months of bank or financial statements to show deposits or on-going balances that prove your fiscal independence as described in Updated Mexican Immigration Rules **
       5. Your current visa document (keep a copy for your personal use while INM processes your app. You may need official proof of an FM2 or FM3 with the police or other Mexican authorities while INM is processing your application). (Hint: it is good to keep a copy of your INM permit throughout the year, because it is much easier to replace a lost permit if you have a copy.<9
       6. Your Pieza Number (from your INM web application) and possibly your personal info page that you might have printed from the INM website.
       7. If you have applied for the Residente Temporal from outside of Mexico, then bring your Visitante permit you got from INM when entering Mexico, along with the form given to you by your Mexican Consulate. (Applicants who lose their Visitante permits may have to pay a fine.)

       Some INM offices are now having applicants also complete a Formato Básico on their first visit. On some later visit to INM, they will request that you bring ID fotos: 2 front and 2 right profiles, infantile size color pictures with hair off your face and off your ears, and no jewelry.

       One significant change due to the 2011 “new” law is that visitors in Mexico on tourist/Visitante visas CANNOT apply to change immigration status while inside Mexico. Visitantes must apply at a Consulate first from outside Mexico to get a new Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente. Further, Visitantes must apply for their Mexican residency visas from their home country. The consulates do not issue Residency visas. Visitantes make their applications and pay fees at their local Mexican Consulate, in their home country, and then the Consulates give you an official notice to submit with your passport when you next enter Mexico. Visitantes then have 180 days to travel to Mexico to continue the process. In Mexico, Visitantes must go to their local INM office within 30 days of entering Mexico to complete the process of getting your Residente Temporal permit.

       I think this touches many of the applicable current & new bases for your circumstances…
       steve

       Reply

169. Pingback: Mexico’s New Rules and Procedures for Immigrants and Visiting Tourists | Surviving Yucatan

170. kikipushinthirty says:

     November 12, 2012 at 5:58 am

     Wow, thanks so much for all your help!

     Reply
171. John Garvin says:

     November 12, 2012 at 7:51 am

     When you call the Hotline, they say 2 years FM-2 and 2 plus years married to a Mexican does not get you Permanent Resident. This is my exact situation and today have to renew. darn

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 12, 2012 at 8:37 am

       John,
       Sorry to hear this.

       Let’s hope your local/regional INM office accepts your petition, as is.
       steve

       Reply
172. John Garvin says:

     November 12, 2012 at 11:43 am

     Went to Immigration in San Miguel. One officer said time on FM-3 did not count. The Delgado said it did. Here was a huge shocker and a good one… One year on a FM-2 or 3 and $2500 PENSION income and you can apply got Permanent Resident. That income can be proven with bank statements PLUS letters from whom you receive the pension income or income tax statements etc. So I applied for Permanent resident. Final word on approval will be 2 weeks from today. Then one more step required and not sure of all the details.

     Reply
     • Ric Hoffman says:

       November 12, 2012 at 12:40 pm

       John, there is nothing magical about that. You applied for Residente Permanente under Tramite 7, which lists several different ways for approval, one says:

       IV. Presentar los documentos que acrediten alguno de los siguientes supuestos:
       a. Jubilados o pensionados:
       1. Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinticinco mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos doce meses, o
       2. Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes mayores al equivalente de quinientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.
       
       Your time spent as a FM3 or FM2 holder are not needed or considered under Tramite 7, fracc IV a. 2.

       Good luck with your application.

       Reply
173. John Garvin says:

     November 12, 2012 at 1:35 pm

     i did not realize the income was sufficient without “time served” of 4 years. I was told at immigration you need one year of a temporary or permanent visa (applied for at consulate) before the $2500 threshold kicked in.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 12, 2012 at 2:11 pm

       Are $31,165 pesos a month of regular deposits from pension payment sufficient in and of themselves to qualify an applicant for Residente Permanente?
       

       John has been told orally by his local office that he must also have completed 1 or 2 years on FM3 or FM2…
       ****
       Ah, the devil in the details.

       The original 2011 Law does have a clause that says that residents with sufficient pension income from government agencies or international organizations or private companies qualify for Residente Permanente – as we noted in our May 2011 original article on the New Law.

       Sub-category “III” to Article 54 (listed on the same page as Article 52 Sec. IX) reads:
       “Artículo 54. Se otorgará la condición de residente permanente al extranjero que se ubique en cualquiera de los siguientes supuestos: . . .
       …
       III. Que sean jubilados o pensionados que perciban de un gobierno extranjero o de organismos internacionales o de empresas particulares por servicios prestados en el exterior, un ingreso que les permita vivir en el país; ”

       Roughly translated:
       Article 54: Individuals who shall be granted permanent resident status due to any of the following circumstances:
       III: Individuals who are retirees or pensioners, who are entitled to a foreign government or international agencies or private companies for services rendered abroad, an income that allows them to live in the country;

       So, by our previous reading, monthly pension income above the requirement for Residente Permanente, $31,165 pesos a month of regular deposits, qualify for Residente Permanente.

       This could be interpreted as people and retirees who have “pensions”, receiving regular pension income payments, but not all previous “Inmigrante Rentistas” are pensioners under this interpretation.

       We hesitated to highlight this clause from the law in our new Immigration article, because everything we had found relating to it in the Reglamento and in the Lineamientos all pointed to ALSO requiring 4 years of Residente Permanente.

       We decided to wait to publish this interpretation, until there is definitive and consistent(?) confirmation that sufficient pension income is sufficient by itself to qualify a foreigner for Residente Permanente, because the Lineamientos and Reglamento seem to say otherwise.

       As such, we encourage readers to post their experiences with regional office rulings on this issue:
       1. ~ Are they approving Residente Permanente applications based solely on sufficient pension income?
       2. ~ Are they adding a requirement of 1 or 2 years on a Residente Temporal first?
       3. ~ Are they giving “credit” for 1 or 2 prior years on a current FM2 Inmigrante Rentista? (Immigrant Resident, Investment Income category) or
       4. ~ Are they approving Residente Permanente applications only with 4 years of prior Residente Temporal AND sufficient pension income?

       In the absence of direct clear instructions by the Reglamento or Lineamientos, we believe it is within the purview and rights of each Regional INM Delegado to choose to require any of the 4 options described above.

       Please keep sending in your comments and descriptions of your experiences to help the expat community to understand and know what is working, and where there are obstacles.
       steve

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         November 12, 2012 at 2:52 pm

         Personally, I would find it difficult to believe that a first time Visitor to Mexico could apply for Residente Permanente at their Mexican Consulate, and go to Mexico for their first time, trot into an INM office, and get Permanent Residency by just showing a passport, proof of a local address, a few ID fotos, and 6 bank statements and a letter from their pension fund documenting the pension… I would hope that one would need to show some evidence that they really do intend to become a Permanent Resident of Mexico, by at least living here…. but … ???

         I suspect INM officials will have the same reaction, and will supplement the income requirement with some previous residency requirement to demonstrate that the Permanent Residency application is credible and has been made in good faith.
       • Ric Hoffman says:

         November 12, 2012 at 4:29 pm

         I have been telling you since the law was passed to READ it and not try to tear it apart. KISS – Keep It Simple S…….. Too much information is just as bad as too little….. I have also sent PDF copies of all to Steve which are cut-n-paste enabled for his use. And yes the law says you can apply for Residente Permanmente outside of Mexico and have it granted if you meet the qualifications.
174. darla nordstrom says:

     November 12, 2012 at 2:36 pm

     if you own property in Mexico I believe this $2,500. is cut in 2

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 12, 2012 at 2:56 pm

       Darla,
       Do you have a citation for this proposal? A reference from the 2011 Law, Reglamentos, or Lineamientos would help. None of us or our contributing experts have seen this.

       This principle used to be used by some Regional INM offices, but that was 4 years ago, and many/most INM offices discontinued the practice.
       steve

       Reply
     • Ric Hoffman says:

       November 12, 2012 at 4:36 pm

       That is no longer available. It was an option in the LGP and in the INM manual of 29 Jan 2010. When the Ley de Migracion was passed they also passed a new LGP which deleted all reference to INM articles. It also deleted the time out of Mexico restrictions that were in place.

       Reply
175. Mark Topliss says:

     November 12, 2012 at 4:19 pm

     Might also want to discuss the info for persons wanting to apply under the condition of “unidad familiar” with family and/or personal connections to Mexicans (or foreigners with temporary or permanent resident status).
     With this the person or persons in Mexico whom you have a family relationship with have to petition the INM directly using one of the new forms on their website. Not sure what happens after that, but it seems that they are committed to reuniting families.
     Also the economic solvency requirements are much less. Either 300 x 62.33 = 18,699p for an average monthly balance for the last six months; or 100 x 62.33 = 6,233 pesitos (or 475 bucks @ 13.1) in a monthly pension or wage each month for six months.

     In my own case I am the father of a Mexican citizen and divorced from a Mexican citizen and am going with this route when I move back to Mexico next spring.

     From Tramite 5: Visa de Residencia Temporal: Requisito IV: section d:
     d. Unidad Familiar: en términos de los artículos 55 y 56 de la Ley y el artículo 113 del Reglamento.

     1. Vínculo con persona extranjera que cuente con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal:

     i. Si el solicitante es cónyuge, concubina o concubinario de persona extranjera con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal, acta de matrimonio o constancia de concubinato o figura equivalente emitida por autoridad competente de conformidad con la legislación aplicable del país del que es originario el solicitante, en original y copia; o

     Si el solicitante tiene hijo extranjero con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal, acta de nacimiento del hijo, en original y copia; o

     Si el solicitante tiene padre o madre extranjero con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal, siempre y cuando sea niña, niño o adolescente y no haya contraído matrimonio o se encuentre en estado de interdicción y esté bajo su representación legal, acta de nacimiento del solicitante, en original y copia; o

     Si el solicitante es hijo del cónyuge; concubinario o concubina o figura equivalente de una persona extranjera con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal, siempre y cuando sea niña, niño o adolescente y no haya contraído matrimonio o se encuentre en estado de interdicción y esté bajo su representación legal:

     – Acta de nacimiento del solicitante, en original y copia, y

     – Acta de matrimonio o constancia de concubinato o figura equivalente emitida por autoridad competente, con la persona extranjera con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal, en original y copia.

     ii. Tarjeta de residente temporal o visa de residente temporal, en original y copia, y

     iii. Acreditar solvencia económica para la manutención del familiar durante su estancia en el país, con:

     – Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a trescientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos seis meses; o

     – Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes mayores al equivalente de cien días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.

     2. Matrimonio o concubinato con persona extranjera que cuente con la condición de residente permanente o titular de una visa de residente permanente:

     i. Acta de matrimonio o constancia de concubinato o figura equivalente emitida por autoridad competente de conformidad con la legislación aplicable del país del que es originario el solicitante, en original y copia;

     ii. Tarjeta de residente permanente o visa de residente permanente, válida y vigente, en original y copia, y

     iii. Acreditar solvencia económica para la manutención del familiar durante su estancia en el país, con:

     – Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a trescientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses, o

     – Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes mayores al equivalente de cien días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.

     3. Matrimonio o concubinato con mexicano:

     i. Acta de matrimonio o constancia de concubinato o figura equivalente emitida por autoridad competente, en original y copia; y

     ii. Documento probatorio de la nacionalidad mexicana, conforme al artículo 3o. de la Ley de Nacionalidad, en original y copia.

     iii. Acreditar solvencia económica para la manutención del familiar durante su estancia en el país, con:

     – Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a trescientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos seis meses, o

     – Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes mayores al equivalente de cien días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 12, 2012 at 4:31 pm

       Hey Mark,
       Thank you for the kind and very thorough update.

       In our new up-to-date article, New Rules and Procedures for Immigration, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico at https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/ … we describe the principles and sections of the Law and Regulations that affect familial relationships.

       Your inclusion of the specific text of the regulations fills in a gap that we had not yet addressed.
       THANKS!
       steve

       Reply
       • Mark Topliss says:

         November 12, 2012 at 5:39 pm

         Yesterday on the mexconnect forum you said: “In the brief 7 years I have lived here, it is clear that the prices on many things have increased by at least 30%, so, there may actually be no nefarious plots, but that simple economics and changing exchange rates are driving the INM changes in average balance or income requirements. ???” & “Is it possible that the real costs of living, based on the prices of the stuff that expats buy and use in Mexico, have gone up 5% per year (or more), since the old $1,200 USD standard was used for about the past 7 years?”

         Some old turkey over there then shot you down saying: “No it is not possible that the real cost of living has risen that much. 30% of 1200 is not almost 2000.” And I think to myself the hell it isn’t if you crunch the numbers at an even even 5% increase it year.
         For example: 1) $1200 x 1.05 = $1260, 2) ” x 1.05 = $1323, 3) ” x 1.05 = $1389.15, 4) ” x 1.05 + $1458.61, 5) ” x 1.05 = $1531.54, 6) ” x 1.05 = $1608.11, 7) ” x 1.05 = $1688.52, 8) ” x 1.05= $1772.95, 9) ” x 1.05 = $1861.59, 10) ” x 1.05 = $1954.67
         So at a flat an even 5% over 10 years one can watch $1200 turn into $1954.67

         I spend a good deal of my time in Mexico in and around the DF and I can tell you honestly the cost of living has easily risen by 25% just in the past 4 years I’ve been going there. People really underestimate how much that change in exchange rate (and without a recovery to previous levels of stability) really threw the fundamentals out of whack. But hey they could be worse I remember a few days around the end of Feb. 2009 when the rate for pesos among the currency dealers at the airport in the DF bottomed out around 16 to a dollar. At least things rebounded to the 12.5-13.5 range we’ve mostly been in the last two years.
       • yucalandia says:

         November 12, 2012 at 6:21 pm

         Hey Mark,
         Yep, prices have gone up. For poor people who subsist on the basic commodities of tortillas, eggs, rice, and beans, the prices have jumped proportionally more than for more affluent folk.**

         We too have seen at least 25% inflation in the past 4 years. Our local expat forum has old guys who have little else to do than track how they spend every penny, and their annual accounting shows similar inflation. 7 years ago, the consensus opinion was that $1,200 a month was slicing the baloney pretty thin, living in a very cheap apartment in a blue collar part of town, and almost no going out to eat, no travel, … a spartan life.

         Ironically, when newbies come onto our local forum asking about what to expect for cost of living, the geezers clear their throats, and form a chorus that sings: $1,800 – $2,400 is needed to cover all expenses – because lots of people forget or don’t realize their non-recurring spending.

         So, while I am not generally a fan of big centralized government, I think they actually got this one pretty right, especially if you are renting.

         **People who own an already-remodeled home, who already own enough furniture, TVs, computers, and electronics, have nice cars, etc can obviously get by comfortably on less than $1,900 per month.

         To each his own,
         steve
176. Mark Topliss says:

     November 12, 2012 at 4:33 pm

     The devil is in the details.

     I was just wondering to myself about “con saldo promedio mensual”. Seems like all the people shouting about the sky falling on different forums and blogs are reading this as “saldo mínimo mensual” Minimum Monthly Balance instead of Average Monthly Balance (six or twelve monthly figures divided by six or twelve for an average).

     Lets say someone needed 400 times the DF daily minimum wage for six months. They could have 600, 250, 400, 600, 300, and 350 yielding a six month average of 416.66.

     Reply
177. John Garvin says:

     November 12, 2012 at 5:31 pm

     Here are some notes regarding today in San Miguel. I am married to a Mexican and we supported proof but appeared to not be a factor.

     1. Staff were courteous and helpful.

     2. Application I processed on-line and obtained the NUT tracking number.

     3. If you only have a travel permit (FMM) you need to leave the country and apply at the consulate near your home. No one can initiate the visa process from within Mexico, only process renewals.

     4. The income to prove for a Temporary Resident visa is 400 x Mexico city daily minimum wage which in dollars is approx $1910 depending on exchange rate. This amount is for one person or can be the same total for a couple. You can pay for all 3 years at once creating a saving.

     5. The income to prove for a Permanent Resident visa is 500 x Mexico City daily minimum wage which is approx. $2500. This amount is for one person or can be the same total for a couple.

     6. To prove income I had 6 months of bank statements I took off the Internet. Then I supported that amount by having a letter from my former employer issued last January stating what my pension would be this year. I also had a Canadian NR-4 which is equivalent to a T-4 showing last year’s total income. They were only seeking confirmation and a bank letter was never requested.

     7. One Immigration officer stated time with a FM-3 would not count. When another facilitator asked the Delgado he stated the FM-3 time would count. The bottom line is we will see what happens tomorrow or the next time this issue comes up.

     8. I have had a FM-2 for 2 years and sufficient pension income for a Permanent Resident. I was told I can apply for Permanent Resident which I did.

     9. In two weeks we return to confirm approval and complete another form.

     Reply
178. Marc says:

     November 12, 2012 at 5:48 pm

     I’m not sure how the income for one person ($1910/$2500) can be the same for a single person or a couple. I thought the other partner added about $500 to the figure?

     Reply
     • John Garvin says:

       November 12, 2012 at 5:56 pm

       We asked about 3 times as we too thought so and at least here in SMA that is what they say. No more for a couple vs single.

       Reply
179. Marc says:

     November 12, 2012 at 7:03 pm

     Are you sure it has nothing to do with the fact that your wife is a Mexican citizen…and doesn’t need anything from INM? Otherwise I’m all for it, and I hope they have the same policy when we go in in August for our new cards!

     Reply
     • John Garvin says:

       November 12, 2012 at 7:11 pm

       Marc the Immigration officer said it was because my PENSION income was over 2500 per month. We are at Immigration often as my wife is a facilitator so will report experiences.

       Reply
180. Marc says:

     November 12, 2012 at 7:39 pm

     Yipee! Sounds great!!

     Reply
181. Valene says:

     November 12, 2012 at 10:26 pm

     John, did they seem more concerned that the amount of the monthly income was over 2500 per month, or the source of the income? I am gathering my documents as my FM2 expires in 30 days. I have bank statements and my bank is preparing a letter to confirm I have investments in the amount that is specified in the new rules. Sure look forward to hearing that someone, with non government/employee pension type income is able to obtain permanent residency.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 12, 2012 at 11:39 pm

       There are reports from our Merida INM office that they are requiring Apostilled statements from the US Social Security to verify pension income.

       *sigh*

       Are other offices raising this issue?

       Reply
       • John Garvin says:

         November 13, 2012 at 6:06 am

         Not in San Miguel. Plus Canadians can not get Apostilled documents as the Canadian government did not sign that component of the Hague Convention.
     • John Garvin says:

       November 13, 2012 at 6:10 am

       I believe to get Permanent Resident they wanted bank statements which I printed from my account off the Internet and then the source proved this was pension income vs employment. Hence, i had a letter from employer stating what my 2012 monthly pension would be dated back in January. If you are going to a simple renewal ie wanting a Temporary Resident visa (renewal) the official list of required documents does not mention bank statements for renewal. In essence, a Permanent Resident is an Inmigrado which is a higher “level” than simply a FM-2.

       Reply
       • BeachBum says:

         March 21, 2013 at 4:24 am

         OK, I’ve been on an FM-3 in Acapulco since December 2009, when I had to show 3 months of bank statements along with the rest of the required paper work. I did not have to show them during my renewals in 2010, 2011 or 2012. This year I received my Temporary Resident visa upon renewal. The women helping me at the office told me that I would be eligible for Permanent Residency upon renewal in 2013. Was this info accurate? If so will I need to be prepared to show 6 months of bank statements and the rest of it to obtain Permanent Residency during my 2013 renewal?
       • yucalandia says:

         March 21, 2013 at 7:54 am

         Hi BB,
         Yes, she is correct that you qualify for Residente Permanente in 2013, solely because you will have completed 4 unbroken years on the same “temporary” resident permit (w/ no breaks, no penalties). In theory, this alone is enough to qualify you for Permanent. Many many applicants with 4 unbroken temporary years have NOT had to show any bank statements. It is possible that they could ask for bank statements. You could then show them a copy of the text of the Requisitos of Articulo 44 of the Lineamientos saying that 4 years is enough.
         All the best,
         steve
182. Valene says:

     November 13, 2012 at 9:42 am

     OK. Looks like the worst case scenario for some of us will be that we can obtain a Temporary Resident visa, but not a Permanent Resident visa. Now just to figure out how to get a market evaluation because the value on my deed is far less than the actual value, which is over 200K US. Don’t think I need it now, but would like that for the future. I guess I will start keeping all those facturas for improvements!

     Reply
     • John Garvin says:

       November 14, 2012 at 4:10 pm

       Valene let’s wait and see if you need to prove income after 4 years with Temporary Resident Visa.

       I know to go from a FM3 / 2 to a Temporary Resident it is considered a renewal and you do not have to prove again income. Does anyone know if the end of time with a Temporary Resident visa if you have to prove income to become a Permanent Resident or is the 4 years all that it takes to qualify?

       I also believe that at end of 4 year Temporary Resident visa you must go to Permanent Resident or leave.

       Reply
183. John Garvin says:

     November 14, 2012 at 4:13 pm

     Has anyone applied for Permanent Resident after 4 or more years on a FM-3? Or did they get Permanent resident with a combination of 4 years with both a FM-3 and FM-2? In other words, are they recognizing time on a FM-3 towards Permanent Resident visa?

     Reply
     • Linda Leonard says:

       December 1, 2012 at 7:56 am

       In Zihua- have had FM3 for 4 years. Went to immigration & they said I qualify to go directly to Perm. Res. I won’t be applying until Jan. 3- so let’s see what the story is at that time.

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         December 1, 2012 at 8:16 am

         ~ HOOORAY ! ~

         This news fits other expat reports from across Mexico… except for Mazatlan….
       • John Garvin says:

         December 1, 2012 at 8:41 am

         And now you should be able to go to Perm. Res with a total of 4 years including current and past visas. This is important. Some had several years on a FM-3. To avoid capital gains they went to FM-2 recently. If the total years did not count this would be grossly unfair. They would otherwise be prevented from going to PR and have to wait say 3 more years while others who did not simply change from a FM-3 to a FM-2 could become PR.
184. Phillip Herring says:

     November 16, 2012 at 8:06 am

     Sorry if this has been previously explained, but I haven’t read anything about any new rules for US or Canadian plated automobiles. Can a Permanent Resident have a foreign plated car, or must it be nationalized or exported?

     Reply
185. anthonykruiser says:

     November 16, 2012 at 9:29 am

     Input from visiting INM in Nayarit yesterday. First be clear that Residente Permanente is NOT citizenship. Citizenship is ONLY dealt with via SRE, and INM “believe” nothing has changed in their requirements. She said ex “FM3” and ex “FM2 are now BOTH identified as Residente Temporale, and thus with complete four years OF EITHER you then go forward to apply for Residente Permanente. With RP you cannot cease your Fideicomiso that’s for citizens only, but you CAN leave the country for unlimited periods of time. You pay an initial fee of 1,000 pesos. You need 2 photos front, 2 photos right, colour, infantil. The online form. As ex “FM2” house owner with no pension (or insufficient for their requirements) but with money in the bank we need: complete photocopy of escrituras and 6 months bank statements – EACH, even tho it’s all in joint names, as we are individual applications… but the joint amount is fine, do not need to have it twice! No notary copies necessary of anything, no letter from bank, but we are showing our local Mexican one so maybe that makes a difference. Basically they just want to be reassured of our solvency so that we won’t be a burden on the State – and she seemed indifferent to actual house value or savings, but they are super friendly here, knowing how important our financial contribution is to this tourist area! She did go into singsong voice mode regarding the DF daily wage multiplied by 20,000 days etc, but was done with a smile! All paperwork then sent to DF for verification and issue of individual RP cards. Collect these from our local office once paid balance of 3,815 pesos (I see this is total 1,000 pesos more than on Yucalandia, maybe I misunderstood). The cards will be ready in approx 2 weeks – ONLY! Never have to be renewed!
     She confirmed the fee if you are renewing your Res Temporale, 1 – 4 years, as per your site. As usual, all renewals to be started in the 30 days preceding expiry, inc going for Res Permanente.
     She did precede anything regarding fees and finances with “as at this time”, waving her finger for emphasis.

     Reply
     • John Garvin says:

       November 16, 2012 at 3:48 pm

       Thanks for the update and exactly what I experienced when applying on Monday for Permanent Resident. The fee is 3815 pesos as you noted and there is a process component unlike in a Temporary Resident visa that is 1000 pesos as you and I discovered.
       Congratulations.

       John

       Reply
186. trishinmexico says:

     November 17, 2012 at 5:56 pm

     The info. on this site is saying that you can qualify for Permanant Resident with a home in Mexico of a value around 2,500,000 pesos. Every other site that I have looked at is saying that it only qualifies you for TEMPORARY Resident. Can anyone confirm which is correct?
     Saludos, Trish..

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 18, 2012 at 8:31 am

       Hi Trish,
       Excellent question!

       You are correct: By our readings of the most recent updates to the Requisitos (Requirements) for each type INM Residency Cards/Permits,
       ~ Residente Permanente applicants can NOT use the owning sufficient Real Estate to qualify ~

       Only certain types of applicants for Residente Temporal cards/permits can use the Real Estate Ownership clause.

       ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
       Going to the source (the INM Law/Lineamientos), avoids the he-said, she-said, they-said problems of convolving information:
       “Artículo 41. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, cambio de visitante por razones humanitarias a residente temporal.
       Requisitos:
       …
       Escritura pública en la que conste que el extranjero es propietario de bienes inmuebles o que adquiere derechos de fideicomisario, con un valor equivalente a cuarenta mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, original y copia.”

       Article 41. describes the requirements and details for changing from “refugee”/”asylum”/”humanitarian” Visitor permit to Residente Temporal.
       Requirements: … real estate property worth at least 40,000 times the general minimun daily wage in DF. => $195,000 USD at 13:1 exchange rates.

       This means that there is a route to Temporary Resident status by owning enough real estate in Mexico but the applicant must be in the country as a refugee/seeking asylum from abuses in their home country. Typical visitors to Mexico do not qualify to become Temporary Residents on humanitarian grounds – so, the other sites are technically correct, but only on a narrow basis.

       ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
       Let’s now go on to the next type of Resident that can use the Owning Real Estate route to Residency:
       “Artículo 43. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, cambio de residente temporal estudiante a residente temporal.
       Requisitos:
       …
       Escritura pública en la que conste que la persona extranjera es propietaria de bienes inmuebles o que adquiere derechos de fideicomisario, con un valor equivalente a cuarenta mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, original y copia.”

       This basically says that official Student Residents can use the owning sufficient Real Estate rule to qualify for a Temporary Resident card.

       ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
       Let’s now go on to the next type of Resident that can use the Owning Real Estate route to Residency:
       “Artículo 52. Ficha del trámite para la regularización de situación migratoria en la modalidad regularización por tener documento vencido o realizar actividades no autorizadas.
       …
       Vigencia de la autorización:
       …
       Hasta 4 años para residente temporal.

       Requisitos:
       …
       i. Escritura pública en la que conste que la persona extranjera es propietaria de bienes inmuebles o que adquiere derechos de fideicomisario, con valor equivalente a cuarenta mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal. ”

       This basically says that foreigners who want to change status to either Visitante, Residente Estudiante or Residente Temporal due to their previous INM card expiring or due to “unauthorized activities” (like working without proper authorization) can qualify for Temporary Resident status (or Visitante or Residente Estudiante) using the owning sufficient Real Estate rule.

       Artículo 44. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, de residente temporal a residente permanente:

       ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
       Let’s now go on to the section governing changing from Residente Temporal to Residente Permanente:
       This is the most common type of application for expats with FM2’s and FM3’s.

       Artículo 44. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, de residente temporal a residente permanente:
       …
       Requisitos:
       1. Original y copia del pasaporte, documento de identidad y viaje o documento oficial que haya exhibido para obtener la condición de estancia de residente temporal;
       2. Tarjeta de residente temporal, válida y vigente;
       3. Comprobante del pago de derechos por la recepción y estudio de la solicitud de cambio de condición, de conformidad con lo establecido en la Ley Federal de Derechos;
       4. En caso de sistema de puntos, deberá presentar los documentos que acrediten los indicadores y puntaje mínimo requeridos conforme al acuerdo que al efecto se publique en el Diario Oficial de la Federación;
       5. En el caso de pensionados o jubilados deberán presentar:
       a) Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinticinco mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos doce meses, o
       b) Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con ingresos o pensión mensual libre de gravámenes equivalente a quinientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses, y
       6. En caso de que hayan transcurrido cuatro años desde que cuenta con permiso de residente temporal, deberá indicar expresamente en su solicitud de trámite que solicita el cambio por esta vía.
       

       Unfortunately, this section has nothing describing using ownership of property to qualify for a Resident Permanente.

       Hope this clears up any confusion on this issue.
       THANKS !
       steve

       Reply
187. John Garvin says:

     November 17, 2012 at 6:33 pm

     Can one go to Permanent Resident having sufficient income and 6 months prior to FM visa expiring? Or, even with sufficient income does one have to wait until 30 days prior to expiration of FM visa to apply for Permanent Resident?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 18, 2012 at 7:22 am

       John,
       Based on reports from across Mexico, no.
       First person reports are saying that the INM offices are following the rule of starting INM permit renewals or changes in type of permit, no more than 30 days before the existing permit’s expiration.
       steve

       Reply
       • John Garvin says:

         December 1, 2012 at 8:34 am

         Steve the answer is “yes”. As we get more experience we see many going to Permanent Resident at any time they wish to apply if they have the income. Since notarios are reporting they will want to see PR status to get a savings on capital gains it is important those with a home and selling or thinking of selling they should become PR asap.
188. anthonykruiser says:

     November 18, 2012 at 1:29 pm

     I was specifically told you can only apply within the 30 days preceding expiry date, just like when renewing the other categories.

     Reply
189. John Garvin says:

     November 20, 2012 at 2:21 pm

     If you have the required income or 4 years on a FM-3 or FM-2, not combined, you can apply for Permanent Resident anytime without regard to when current visa expires. This is as per a meeting my wife had today at Immigration in San Miguel.

     Reply
190. david says:

     November 21, 2012 at 6:27 am

     hi steve
     I am fm3 holding since 9 october 2012 and i am out of maxico home country, my question is should i go to embassy for for extra papels because of chenges and will be problem to re-enter in maxico? please provide me your kind information.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 21, 2012 at 7:50 am

       Existing FM3s and FM2s are fully legal, and function normally, until they expire this coming year. You simply return to Mexico with your FM3 before it expires.
       steve

       Reply
191. Brenda_Playa says:

     November 23, 2012 at 3:37 pm

     I had the option of moving to an FM2 last year (after 5 years on FM3-rentista) but did not take it because of the residency requirements (no more than 18 months out-of-country over 5 years). From what I am reading on this site, that requirement does not apply to Residente Permanente. Could I use my previous 5 years on FM3 plus the last year on an FM3 to apply for permanent resident status?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 23, 2012 at 6:49 pm

       Unfortunately, no.

       INM is officially only counting years-completed on current valid visas. Did you read Joe from Q.Roo’s post at https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/2012/11/21/inm-regional-office-requirements-for-getting-mexican-residency-and-immigration-rules/ ? His Q. Roo INM office allowed him to file a Residente Permanente application, with some “23 exhibits” he presented, even though he did not meet the general requirements. We do not know which office he went to in Q.Roo, nor do we know enough of the specifics of his situation. e.g. If he has over $2,400 USD per month in pension income, that alone could qualify him.

       Ask Joe (enter a comment) about the specifics of his application, and he might give us insights to exactly what his office expects.
       steve

       Reply
       • John Garvin says:

         December 1, 2012 at 8:30 am

         Steve sorry but I disagree. INM here in San Miguel are saying if you have proof of previous visas and they along with current visa total 4 years they will allow you to proceed to Permanent Resident. They stated this is a change in past week. Next week my wife has 2 clients and will test this.
       • yucalandia says:

         December 1, 2012 at 1:28 pm

         Hooray!

         We look forward to your report/update about how things are actually working.
         steve
192. Brenda_Playa says:

     November 23, 2012 at 8:35 pm

     I had not read Joe’s post, so thanks for bringing it to my attention. The points option raises another question… At first glance at least, it would appear that a “snow bird” could become a permanent resident if he/she had the points to qualify. Would permanent resident status in and of itself trigger income tax obligations for a person like me whose income derives from outside Mexico and who spends at least 183 days outside the country?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 23, 2012 at 10:00 pm

       Yes, some offices are considering “points” (?) to qualify some applicants, though the details of a points system has not been officially described at all. *yet*

       Re Taxes.. Do you have permission to work in Mexico? If no permission, then no taxes, because you are not supposed to be working here.
       If you have permission to work here, along with an RFC, then does your employer withhold Mexican taxes? If you are paying Mexican taxes via withholding, then your employer is responsible for withholding the proper amounts. If you think the Hacienda should refund any taxes you have withheld, then… you really must talk with a Mexican tax accountant or tax attorney.

       In any case, if you work here, I think you must talk with a Tax accountant or Tax attorney to determine your specific tax liabilities.

       In principle, the tax treaty between the US and Mexico establishes that any taxes paid in one country, are counted as credits against any equivalent taxes owed in the other country. You are claiming the US as your Tax Home, (in formal IRS terminology), with at least 183 days inside the country. In some Mexican accountants opinions, if your salary is paid only to a US account, and US taxes are withheld, then there are generally no taxes owed. Other accountants refer to the Mexican statute that residents of Mexico, with permission to work in Mexico, owe Mexican taxes on all income earned across the globe – after subtracting any taxes you paid to other governments who have appropriate tax treaties with Mexico.

       Many reliable expats report that their US and Canadian tax attorneys repeatedly advise them that as long as the salary/wages are paid to US or Canadian accounts, then no Mexican taxes are owed, but this is a matter for your personal advisor/expert to decide.

       Again, I repeat that our insights are not intended as legal advice, as good stories of our experiences that might help readers better understand their experiences and some possible options, and as such, they are for informational or entertainment purposes only.
       Talk with your bona fide, certified, trained tax expert.
       steve

       Reply
193. Paul says:

     November 23, 2012 at 9:59 pm

     Hello Steve!

     So if I get this right, since I don’t have a FM3/FM2, I must start the process in France, my home country, and then go to Mexico to finish the process.

     If I come as a tourist, I will still have a 180 days permit to travel around, at the end of these 180 days, I must leave the country obviously, but can I re-enter the country the next day and have another 180 days touristic visa?

     Thank you so much!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 25, 2012 at 9:28 am

       Hi Paul,
       Mostly yes, the law reads: Foreigners in Mexico on Visitante visas cannot change status *while in Mexico*. (This means they must leave Mexico to apply for residency, when they are visitors). If the applicant is not applying in their home country, they must also provide documentation demonstrating their legal status in that country. This bit means the applicant must be a legal resident(?)** of the country where he is applying at a Mexican consulate – which is generally their home country.

       **The language on this is not completely clear, and we have no confirmation of how INM and Consulates are actually handling this. It is possible that someone with an US CIS I94 temporary permit to be in the US might qualify to apply at a Mexican Consulate in the States, (but I think not.) Clearly, a foreigner, e.g. from India, who also has a US Permanent Residency card, could simply leave Mexico and apply in a Mexican Consulate inside the USA, and not have to return to India.

       All the best,
       steve

       Reply
194. John Garvin says:

     December 1, 2012 at 8:45 am

     Steve, is there a way to go back a clean out questions / answers that are now incorrect based on practice and reality? The thread is so long. Plus, one could easily be misled by making major decisions based on what is now erroneous information.

     Or remove numerous postings and have a summary of what is practice / reality? Due to the number of posts this is becoming hard to follow.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 1, 2012 at 1:32 pm

       Good points….

       I will read back through them, and delete the excess posts – and add after-the-fact editor’s notes to the bum advice.
       Good suggestion. The only drawback to deleting things is that some people may use their name to do future searches (Google: “Yucalandia John Doe FM2 income requirement” … ) Gotta think about the ramifications of deleting anything…
       steve

       Reply
195. Brian Voris says:

     December 1, 2012 at 11:58 am

     Has anyone heard about a plan by the Mexico government to try to tax permanent residents
     on the income from abroad? This would be similar to the US government taxing you on profits made outside the USA. I believe that both governments are working on some type of financial information sharing system to capture this data for tax purposes. If that is the case being a temporary resident may have it’s advantages…..

     Reply
     • Phillip Herring says:

       December 1, 2012 at 7:07 pm

       The normal procedure in taxation is to avoid double taxation of the taxpayer. If your pension income is from the US, you will have to continue to pay federal, and usually state, income tax. How could the Mexican government imagine that they could levy taxes on these pensions without driving all of the rentistas out? I just don’t b elieve it.

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 1, 2012 at 10:59 pm

       Since Permanent Residents are automatically eligible to work in Mexico, then if they do work, they are responsible for paying Mexican taxes on Mexican earnings. Under the longstanding US-Mexico Tax Treaty, both countries agree that any taxes paid by US citizens on US income are also credited for Mexican purposes. Similarly, the US IRS credits US citizens for any Mexican taxes they pay on revenues earned in Mexico. The US credit for overseas earnings used to be $91,000. To read the details of what might be owed, you can read the 1992 Treaty at http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/mexico.pdf . US tax rates are almost universally higher than Mexican rates on income, which means: In simple terms, if you have paid all appropriate US taxes on US income/interest, then you likely should not owe any taxes in Mexico, due to the USA’s higher tax rates. e.g. Payroll taxes in Mexico are quoted at 1%, so paying your US taxes on US derived income, definitely covers any Mexican obligations on US income.

       Capital gains on real estate could be a different matter for a very small proportion of US expat Permanent Residents in Mexico. Capital gains are generally excluded for US citizens by taking the $250,000 IRS 2011 exclusion per person per sale of a primary home, in place since 1997. In theory, since Mexican capital gains are at 28% of the basis-adjusted gain, then if you had over $500,000 in gains on a jointly held property, then your Schedule D would show the excess gain, and then the gain would be treated as a long-term gain taxed at 15%, which means if the Mexican government found out about it, maybe maybe maybe, they could ask you to pay 13% on the net, basis-adjusted gains over $500,000, but then the taxpayer could adjust the basis of the property by deducting 3% per year allowed by Mexico for depreciation/wear/tear for up to 10 years, which would translate to a 30% reduction of the minimum $500,000 = a minimum $167,000 adjustment, which then means that the net basis adjusted gains on the US property would have to exceed $667,000 to begin to trigger any Mexican taxes on the remainder after the US citizen paid their 15% Schedule D gains…

       Do any Yucalandia readers, who might become Permanent Residents of Mexico, really anticipate selling a US property with basis adjusted capital gains exceeding $667,000??? If so, they likely have enough money to pay the relatively small amount that might be owed to Mexico. ???
       steve

       Reply
196. Juan Antonio says:

     December 1, 2012 at 12:24 pm

     On a different note: The new reglamentos state that I (a US citizen), having grandparents (segundo grado) being born in Mexico, can apply for Residente Permanente.

     Reference: Numeral VI of Articulo 139, page 43-44 – Reglamento de la ley de Micración DOF 28-09-2012

     What is this particular application process?

     Also; where may I obtain certified copies of my grandparents Mexican birth certificates?

     Thanks for all that you do!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 1, 2012 at 1:53 pm

       Juan,
       Good Good Good luck with this one. Yes, the route has existed for a long time, but the 3 individuals I know who have chased the Mexican Birth Certificate routes have all been net skunked – 5 years of effort later. One individual’s father was Mexican born, yet 5 years later, his Federal, and State and local and municipalidad (county) all/each cannot provide the document or any supporting documentation from just 60 years ago. Your grandparents birth records are likely older, and hence even more challenging to get. Start with their birth city or municipalidad Registro Civil office and records. Then go to their State Registro Civil offices. and then When you are unsuccessful there, go on to the national Mexican government in DF.

       Like I said above, this route is legal, but all 3 people I know who have been writing and visiting offices and and and, all have had zero success after 5 years of steady efforts.

       Best of Luck ~ and come back and tell us how it comes out.
       steve

       Reply
197. anthonykruiser says:

     December 1, 2012 at 6:17 pm

     I do think a lot of the past stuff should be filed away – it’s out of date but who knows might still be of interest for future reference purposes? Can you set up some kind of “archives” In Word Press? then those who want/ need to can refer to it, while all your updates continue to remain current? As you know by now, I am not a computer person! But this is how I wold do it given a physical “filing cabinet”. Whatever – you provide an excellent service to us all to disseminate. Well done!

     Reply
198. Marc says:

     December 1, 2012 at 7:13 pm

     I believe FATCA is the agreement to which everyone is alluding?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 1, 2012 at 11:20 pm

       Hi Marc,
       I don’t think FATCA applies. FATCA addresses US citizens residing in foreign countries reporting their FOREIGN FINANCIAL assets to the IRS. It has nothing to do with reporting US income to the Mexican government. The old 1992 Tax Treaty between the US and Mexico governs the taxes owed by Americans living in Mexico and Mexicans living in the USA: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/mexico.pdf
       steve

       Reply
199. Marc says:

     December 2, 2012 at 6:27 am

     Yes, Steve, that’s my point. If the 1992 regs haven’t changed since 1992, then folks might be getting excited about the implications of FATCA for which the IRS just had a press release on November 14th, eh? If it requires US citizens residing in foreign countries to report their foreign financial assets to the IRS, some people might be concerned.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 2, 2012 at 8:23 am

       Hi Marc,
       I’m feeling particularly dense this morning, and do not see how Residente Permanente expats reporting to the US IRS about their Foreign Financial Assets held in Mexico, will somehow cause Mexico’s Hacienda to try to tax US pension income? There is no link between FATCA reporting to the USA and Mexico wanting to tax worldwide income of Permanent Residents – because the Mexican Government already knows about the US expat financial assets in Mexico.

       Then: Consider that expat’s US pension distributions, payed out in the USA, generally have their taxes withheld by the distributor – so, when the US taxes (higher %’s than Mexican taxes) have already been paid (withheld) then no tax is owed in Mexico.

       I’m just not seeing how Hacienda will find anything to tax on their new Residente Permanentes, for US payouts received in the US, unless the expat sells a property that has gained a net value of more than $500,000 USD or $667,000 USD in basis-adjusted gains. And this group would seem to be a very very small slice of the Americans retiring in Mexico or visiting as snowbirds.

       What have I missed ???
       steve

       Reply
200. Marc says:

     December 2, 2012 at 9:20 am

     I don’t think you’ve missed anything, Steve, and I agree with your analysis. However, something has caused some expats to get sick and nervous and since the 1992 regs are still the same, my thoughts turned to the release of information about FATCA.
     Thanks for the reassurance,
     Marc

     Reply
201. jems says:

     December 29, 2012 at 5:47 am

     Hi Steve,
     I have submitted my application end of September for .fm3 and i have got my nut number and i have not get .fm3 card and i am still want to get my card but is it possible because of changes . Do i need to provide extra other doc or new application ? Please let me know i hope you my solution.

     Jems

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 29, 2012 at 9:11 am

       Hi jems,
       We do not have enough information to answer your question.

       Are you in Mexico?
       Are you here here on a tourist or FMM permit?

       You probably need to restart the Residency application process, but note that if you are here on a Tourist/FMM permit, because you waited until after Nov. 9, 2012, then you must leave the country and go to a country where you have residency and apply at a Mexican Consulate there. If you are here in Mexico, I would go to your local INM office and ask if there are any options to continue with your previous application.

       Have you read our main article on immigration? New Rules and Procedures for Immigration, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico

       steve

       Reply
       • Ric Hoffman says:

         December 29, 2012 at 9:20 am

         I am assuming he submitted his application within Mexico. If he has been assigned a NUT, then his application is processing. He should just report to his INM office where he submitted his Tramite and pick up the card. No need to add to the confusion by requesting something different. If he submitted for a FM3 at a consulate, then he would just pick up his visa for canje and travel to Mexico to complete the process under the previous law.
       • yucalandia says:

         December 30, 2012 at 8:56 am

         Good insights !

         Let’s hope that jems can continue the process from Sept, even though it is 3 months later.

         Jems, can you report back the updates from your INM processes?
         steve
202. mexicanatheartj says:

     February 2, 2013 at 3:33 pm

     This is all so confusing and REALLY appreciate the post and you answering everyone’s comments– I’ve read through them all looking for some insight to my current situation, which is the follow:

     I’ve been on a FM3 for the past 2 years. The last year I was No Imigrante- No Lucrativa as a Dependiente Economico of my boyfriend (in a union libre, not married)

     I just realized my FM3 expired January 20, 2013 (even though I never got it until March 29, 2012!!)… Oops.

     INM told me I can’t apply for a prorroga, I have to start all fresh. He said all I have to do is fill out the Solcitud de Estancia //Regularizacion Situacion MIgratoria — Regularizacion por tener documento vencido.. I understand there is a penalty of about $1500 MXN, but with this there is no other fee and this is all they need (in addition to some more paperwork) to issue me a new Fm3, but I guess now in this case, they would issue me a new ‘Residente Temporal’ right? With Residente Temporal, are there still different ‘caracteristicas’?

     As Residente Temporal, can I still be an economic dependent of my boyfriend? I would have to re-turn all that paper work in, right?

     But then on the other hand this article totally confuses me with the first paragraph:
     (Jan 27, 2013 Updates
     Many people from different INM offices across Mexico are now reporting that they are now receiving their Permanent Residency cards. One consistent and dominant theme is that NONE of them had to submit financial documents when applying. Some of these successful individuals had No Inmigrante Rentista permits (retired FM3 person), others were transferring from “working FM3s”, and others had Inmigrante (FM2s). One individual simply had to sign a letter saying that he continued to have the same financial situation and same income as in the past. Even INM offices like Mazatlan’s that initially required proofs of solvency, have now dropped the requirements. Sweeeeet.
     https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/) …..
     Sooo, wait, it’s Permanent Residency or Temporary!? And I don’t have to prove my incomes? (I only make $1000USD/month).

     And further more, from what I understood in Solomons post, under a Residente Temporal (http://www.mymexicanlawyer.com/immigration-questions/living-in-mexico-getting-a-non-working-residency-card-not-an-fm3fm2/), I won’t have the option to change it to a working visa (should the occasion arise). Is this true?

     Questions are in bold. Again, super appreciate your help. I’m in DF, and last year was in and out of the office 15 times (always leaving in tears!) because no one had consistent information.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 2, 2013 at 3:50 pm

       Hi Mexicana,
       If you read the whole article, you will note that you may only qualify to get a Residente Permanente without showing paperwork IF you 1. HAVE NO BREAKS nor FINES nor PENALTIES on your current FM2 or FM3. Plus, you must have completed 4 years on a current FM2 or FM3, and the INM agent can still require proof of personal fiscal solvency if they choose. If you were married to your Mexican man, then you could apply for Permanent Residency after just 2 years of being his spouse. If you were formally registered/qualified as his Concubina, then you could also qualify after 2 years with no breaks or no fines nor penalties. By missing your expiration date, you have to start the whole process from scratch.

       Also, I suspect that the fine they quoted you is only one of the fees you will have to pay to get a Temporary Residency card. If you choose to start over, and pay no fine, then you would have to requalify and show lots of extra documentation as a new applicant.

       Your post is a helpful reminder to readers to check the expiration dates on their current INM permits, and not let them expire before applying with INM.

       All the best,
       steve

       Reply
       • mexicanatheartj says:

         February 4, 2013 at 11:08 am

         Does any one have a lawyer they can recommend in Mexico City to do my tramites? And what they charge? THank you!!
203. anthonykruiser says:

     February 2, 2013 at 5:44 pm

     and also look at your FM whatever to check the date, some folks here in Vallarta confused the month with the day, ie 06 02 means:? 06 Feb, or 02 June? And it expired, requiring slide down the snake and start the ladder all over again!

     Reply
204. anthonykruiser says:

     February 2, 2013 at 5:54 pm

     FYI: USA Consular Agent Kelly Trainor, fantastic woman, holding a BIG informative meeting down here (Nuevo Vallarta/Riviera Nayarit) on 13 Feb with local Immi reps. Expect all As to Qs to be as already posted on Yucalandia! No Qs on the day!! All Qs by email in advance: consularagentpvr@prodigy.net.mx

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 2, 2013 at 6:59 pm

       Hi Anthony,
       Good update. We look forward to hearing what you find out.

       Maybe there will even be a “Points System” out by then, and even an Aduana ruling???
       steve

       Reply
205. Wayne Overby says:

     February 19, 2013 at 2:45 pm

     I have had an FM3 (no inmigrante; cargo de confianza – lucrativo) for 14 years and it expires March 13th. I have a Mexican Corporation and am in Huatulco a little over 6 months of the year. I went to start the process 30 days prior to renewal and was told to get the Residente Permanente card. I was told by INM that I could not start that process until my current card expires! I have the vehicle permit with a credit card and last year immediately after renewal drove to Salina Cruz (since Aduana in Huatulco didn’t know what to do with me) to notify them and gave the stamped letter when I returned to the US. After several months I finally got a very helpful person at the Mexican Consulate in Minnesota to help me get my refund back. My wife’s vehicle permit (here on a tourist visa) was immediately reimbursed on her credit card after returning to the US.
     My facilitator (who speaks much better Spanish than me) advised me correctly that I can’t go in & tell INS that they are wrong, and I can’t afford to lose my unbroken years of INS permits, the fines or the $400US for the vehicle permit. Any suggestions would really be appreciated.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 19, 2013 at 3:36 pm

       Hi Wayne,
       A few INM local offices are following the old procedure for getting an Inmigrado permit, for applicants for Residente Permanente, where the old Inmigrado system was set up to allow your old No Inmigrante permit to expire. Since your office has chosen the old way, then you have to follow their instructions.

       A few corrections to your understanding: You can only have an FM3 or No Inmigrante permit for a maximum of 5 years. This means you have actually had 3 different FM3’s, and you are not losing any past years. (Your time spent on the 2 earlier FM3’s does not count towards anything – just the number of years on your current FM3/No Inmigrante permit.)

       Out of curiosity: Are you completing year #4 or completing year #5 on your current permit? (Read the back “Prorroga ___ “)

       Since each individual INM office has broad discretion and wide latitude in how they apply the law and rules, what they are doing is “correct” – for them. You have to just go into their office, and do it their way.
       steve

       ps Your somewhat disjointed narrative about the cars confuses me. Are you also asking some question about the cars?
       Did you see that the latest proposal out of Aduana will not allow temporarily imported cars on either Residente Temporal or Permanente? One proposal proposes that expats with current temporary import permits be allowed to nationalize the car ($$$) or take it out of the country. Under the proposal, only visitors will be allowed to have temporary import permits and foreign plated cars. Still, there are some Aduana offices giving temporary permits for the length of the Residente Temporal permit: 4 years… God only knows what the final system from Aduana will be…

       Reply
       • Wayne Overby says:

         February 20, 2013 at 2:08 pm

         Thank you for all your help. I had contacted the Mexico City INM to explain our problem and they sent a letter saying that I can apply 30 days prior to my current card expiration. We took that letter and very humbly asked the Huatulco INM that I be allowed to begin the process for my Residente Permanente. They spent some time going through books, and a phone call later they agreed!!! I was really concerned as Soloman Freimuth and others have written DO NOT allow the current permit to expire. Now we’ll see what happens with Aduana. Any further updates or info would be appreciated.
       • yucalandia says:

         February 20, 2013 at 2:56 pm

         Hey Wayne,
         Well done. Excellent action, completed quickly and effectively. Thanks for reporting back.
         Glad we could help a little,
         steve
       • sharynbates says:

         May 3, 2013 at 2:42 pm

         I don’t know if I am starting a new thread…so sorry if I’m doing this incorrectly. I just got my permanent resident card. Is it like a ‘green card”? I would like to rent my house out part of the year and I will be happy to register with Hacienda, but someone just told me I should have applied before I got the card! Anyone know for sure what the rule or law is? Sharyn
       • yucalandia says:

         May 3, 2013 at 5:31 pm

         Hi Sharyn,
         You did great.

         Residente Permanentes are allowed to work and to make money. This is one of the major benefits of becoming a Residente Permanente. Next: The rules say that you apply with Hacienda after you get your Residente Permanente. Also note: At most SAT/Hacienda offices you schedule your appointment before you go to get registered. Check online.

         For sure,
         steve
206. Wayne Overby says:

     February 19, 2013 at 4:08 pm

     When I came back to Mexico in November I brought in a vehichle from the US
     I knew that my Vehichle permit would expire upon my FM 3 Expiring
     So I went to the INM 30 days prior to my FM 3 Expiring so that I could get a new FM3 and then inform Aduna 14 days prior to my old FM 3 expiring so I could get my deposit back when I return to the US in May (this is what I did last year )
     If I understand you correctly everyone has to become a resident after a period of some years
     I know of dozens of US vehichles here in my area that were brought in years ago and we were all told that that as long as we kept our FM 3 in force that we could keep them here
     many of my friends and neighbors leave there vehichle here all year long
     will they now have to get them out of Mexico and can those of now becoming residents no longer bring in our US vehichles

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 19, 2013 at 5:26 pm

       Hey Wayne,
       The final Aduana policy has not been issued.

       IF Aduana chooses one current proposal, then your friends could permanently import their vehicles.

       Unfortunately, any government can change the rules at any time. Think about how US INS changes their rules.
       Think about how the US IRS changes the rules.
       Think about how Homeland Security keeps changing the rules.
       The concept of a Catch 22 is based on US policies.

       By choosing to get Temporary Import Permits, they are by definition: “temporary”. If people coming temporarily to Mexico want to have a guarantee of keeping their vehicles there permanently, they should have “permanently” imported them, or bought vehicles in Mexico.

       The new upcoming Aduana policy will LIKELY force you to take the vehicle out of Mexico, or to permanently import it. If this happens, it seems like the only way to save the deposit money is to take the car out of Mexico, before your current INM permit expires, which is exactly what you agreed to do when you signed for the temporary import permit.

       The only way for me to guarantee that you get your deposit, is for you to take the car out of Mexico and surrender the permit before your INM permit expires.
       I wish I had better news.
       steve

       Reply
207. Wayne Overby says:

     February 19, 2013 at 4:10 pm

     Sorry I did not answer about my Prorroga is # 4

     Reply
208. Charles says:

     February 21, 2013 at 7:12 am

     In times gone by, the temporary car permit was for 180 days; HOWEVER I read a law that said that actuallt the car is legal as long as the person is legal in Mexico. So, I have an old permit on my car. IS THAT STILL THE RULE?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 21, 2013 at 11:06 am

       Hi Charles,
       Read our
       Importing & Driving a Car in Mexico article. Read the section on Aduana Letter to Carry In the Car If Your TIP was Issued before June 11, 2011 .

       There is just too much to describe in a reply to a comment – so, please read our main article on Cars in Mexico, focusing on the sections we have published to deal with these issues. In your car: Carry Spanish language copies of Article 106 , plus the Aduana letter describing how pre-June 2011 cars are not required to notify Aduana of INM permit renewals, and Sec. 17-14.4, along with the other items described in our main article on Importing and Driving Cars in Mexico.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 21, 2013 at 4:10 pm

       Hi Charles,
       Your question triggered us to take a combination of answers that we have written to other posters, and create a new article on just this issue. Please read: Current Aduana Car Import Rules Made Obsolete by INM’s New Residency Categories for the answers.

       You can find the bulk of our answers to common autos in Mexico questions at: Importing & Driving a Car in Mexico
       steve

       Reply
       • Charles says:

         February 23, 2013 at 1:30 pm

         So do I understand that if my temporary permit was issued in 2008, and that I carry these 3 documents in my car, that is all that is necessary??? Also can I leave the country and return on this SAME temporary permit?
       • yucalandia says:

         February 23, 2013 at 2:08 pm

         Hi Charles,
         Yes, as long as you have met the following requirements: kept your INM permit current, with no breaks, and with no fines or penalties, and no changes in INM status, and no unreported address changes.

         Many people do leave the country and reenter with their TIP car, but you can also apply for a free multiple entry/exit permit from Aduana. Read about the potential major headaches that can arise from taking a TIP car out of Mexico at: Why not just drive out of Mexico, and keep the sticker on my windshield?
         steve
       • yucalandia says:

         February 23, 2013 at 2:32 pm

         Also note that things go more smoothly at inter-state border crossings and at military retenes and police retenes if you have the annual letter from Aduana, and you preserve your deposit. Without the annual letter from Aduana showing your new TIP expiration date, you may have to do a lot of explaining and wait for them to read the papers at retenes – and maybe be forced to pay a “special payment” (mordida).

         Ultimately, the result should be the same, unless you get a dogged persistent (or somewhat avaricious) local law enforcer. Some police officers and even their Captains use the absence of the annual Aduana letter as a reason to demand “special payments” (mordidas).
         Happy Trails,
         steve
209. Bernhart James says:

     March 15, 2013 at 1:48 pm

     Hi Yukalandia,

     Posted some questions here a little while ago and now reading through other posts I have another question. My lawyer told me to renew my FM3 I need 3 months bank statements, same as I did a year ago when I first got my FM3. I am confused because I read something about 6 months statements here.
     Is my lawyer missing something?
     Please drop me a short note.

     Thanks so much

     Bernie

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 15, 2013 at 3:24 pm

       Hi Bernie,
       Yes, you are in the same boat as many other foreigners in Mexico: You got bad/incorrect out-of-date information from your lawyer.

       The 2011 INM Law and the Lineamientos clearly require proof of personal fiscal solvency in the form of 6 months of average deposits over $1,900 USD a month, or property, or an average annual balance to qualify, as described above in section: Financial Independence (Savings or Income) Requirements for Temporary Residency / Residente Temporal Applicants . If you want Permanent Residency instead, those requirements are listed in the section just below the Temporary Residency fiscal solvency $$ requirements.

       The good news is, since you are basically renewing/extending your current INM permit, they may not ask you for any financial documents. Most offices are simply renewing current INM permits for Residente Temporal with zero bank statements. (Which means your “lawyer” was wrong both in the law’s requirements and wrong about real-world practices. … oh well)
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • Bernhart James says:

         March 15, 2013 at 6:20 pm

         Hi Steve,
         Thanks for the info again, really appreaciate it.
         Only one thing what I was wondering, you wrote the 2011 INM Law requires 6 months statements, but when I first applied for my FM3 a year ago I only had to give them the last 3 months statements, and I got my FM3 without any problems.
         So last year was 2012 and the 2011 INM Law was obviously already in place.
         Would you have any idea why I was only asked 3 months statements? Sorry if I bother you, just want to be prepared for the renewel.
         Another thing what I was wondering, does the local INM office handle my request, since I have heard the cards come now from DF?
         Would be great if you could send me a quick reply.

         Thanks so much
         Bernie
       • yucalandia says:

         March 15, 2013 at 10:29 pm

         Hi Bernhart,
         Actually, the May 2011 INM law was not used until after Nov. 9, 2012. The legislature passed the 2011 law, and Calderon signed it on May 25, 2011, but there was a clause that the old law would stay in place until the Lineamientos (a manual of rules for the new law) were issued by INM at an undefined later date. It took 18 months for INM to release the Lineamientos for the 2011 Law, so, if you read my previous post carefully, I identified both the 2011 Law and the Lineamientos. This explains why your 2012 application was processed under the pre-May 2011 rules that only required 3 months of statements.

         Your attorney could have read the Lineamientos 4 months ago, and become familiar with them. Rolly Brook’s website and our website had pretty much all the key details of the Lineamientos published in just 2 days. Unfortunately, this means that a couple of old grey-haired gringos have been publishing more reliable and more timely information than most Mexican attorneys get around to learning even 4 months later. Really, if you would like additional perspectives on these things, read: My Mexican Lawyer and Rollybrook.com. They each have different styles. Our style? As a former professor and scientist, I tend towards offering full details, and full references – which makes for long articles. Rolly Brook and Solomon Freimuth (my Mexican Lawyer) describe the big picture issues really well, offering key points, but without all the details. So, in our view, there are 3 very good sites that stay on top of these things. We may be the only one of the 3 that actively answers questions??? Lawyer Freimuth is a fine lawyer, and a good guy, but he has a law practice that keeps him busy, while Rolly and I are retired.

         So, you likely will not have to produce any statements for a simple renewal, but the INM agent has the right to ask for 6 months of statements.
         Happy Trails,
         steve
210. Bernhart James says:

     March 15, 2013 at 6:25 pm

     Steve,
     Forgot to add something. The reasonwhy I ask about how many months is that when I first applied I gave them my bank statements from back home. Now I have closed all my accounts back home and have only bank accounts here since 3 months. Next month when I am due to renew it’ll be 4.
     Will this cause a problem. Getting a bit paranoied.

     Thanks a lot.

     Bernie

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 15, 2013 at 10:39 pm

       Hi Bernie,
       Do you have 6 consecutive months of statements from a combination of banks for the past 6 months? They do not necessarily require 6 continuous months from just one account.

       Ideally, they will be content with your past filings, and just like a few thousand other Residente Temporal applicants, you will cruise through without having to supply any financial documents. The issue of requesting proof of fiscal solvency is all up to the discretion of the INM agent who processes your application.

       Alternately, if your income is coming as Social Security deposits or pension disbursements or as regular salary payments, then your Pension company or your employer can supply a letter documenting the monthly amount you are paid, and they can provide assurances that they will continue to make deposits to your account in the future. (a very few INM offices actually require the letter from the Pension fund or Social Security system and do NOT accept simple deposits shown on bank statements – why? because some gringos play a shell game of moving money from one account to another to make it look like they have regular income coming in as regular deposits.) This means that the letter from the pension fund, annuity, or employer is actually better documentation of proof of future personal fiscal solvency.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
211. Bernhart James says:

     March 16, 2013 at 7:24 am

     Thanks Steve, appreaciate your help. Will check with my lawyer again and see what she says.

     Best
     Bernie

     Reply
212. Benjamin Giles says:

     March 20, 2013 at 10:51 am

     I have been living in Mazatlan for 7 years and married to a Mexican citizen for more than 20 years. I have had an FM-3 every year for 7 year renewing every Sep./Oct timeframe. I am not sure I should even try to get a Residente Permanente because of my huge concern about my vehicle registration and the impact for anyone who has a U.S. registered and tagged vehicle. I have always acquired a letter from Aduana that insures my Mexican auto sticker is current in the past. I now understand that if I get a Residente Permanente that I must return to the border to register and tag my SUV as a Mexican vehicle. I just bought my 2010 SUV for $40,000 + USD in Houston in June, 2012 and a portion of my car is financed by a credit union. I cannot and will not be able register my SUV in Mexico, thus I need to acquire ANY registration that would allow me to maintain my U.S. car registration and tag yet still be able to travel back and forth to Houston without any problem. We do travel back to the U.S. twice a year to visit my doctors and my family. What are my options and why. I would really appreciate your help.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 20, 2013 at 11:43 am

       Hi Benjamin,
       We are fresh from a 2 hour meeting with a talented import broker, who has imported over 800 vehicles here in Progreso.

       Sr. Cervera clearly said that vehicles with liens cannot be permanently imported. This means that if you want to keep your TIP vehicle in Mexico, you will have to maintain either a Residente Temporal (no lucrativa – rentista) or Visitante INM permit. Since INM is taking 6 to 9 weeks to process permit applications, there is no practical way to wait for your new card and then apply to extend your TIP. As you approach the expiration date of your TIP, be sure to apply to extend the expiration date well before the expiration date (at least 2 weeks). Your application to extend your TIP’s expiration date should include printed documentation from INM that you have officially applied to extend your INM permit.

       Since you have 5 years on one FM3, and then 2 years on your current FM3 (see the Prórroga # on the back of your current INM card to confirm this), this means that you can only get a Residente Temporal for 2 more years, and then you must either go to Residente Permanente or return to your local Mexican Consulate in the USA and re-apply for a new fresh Residente Temporal (no lucrativa).

       Since the Consulates check your computerized bkg. information, you must first cancel/surrender your existing TIP, otherwise it shows up on your personal records as evidence that you are already a Mexican Resident. This also means cancelling/surrendering your current INM permit at that same time. Which means you make a trip to the border to formally surrender both TIP and INM card. You leave Mexico and go to your local Mexican Consulate to file and wait for their approval to get a Visitors visa to return to Mexico to file for Residente Temporal status. As you return to Mexico, you then apply for a new TIP on the SUV, which they may only give you a 30 day TIP (or 180 day TIP). When you complete the INM process in Mexico, then quickly go to Aduana/Banjercito and apply to extend your expiring TIP to match your new INM Residente Temporal (no lucrativa) permit’s expiration date. … since the Consulates are currently only approving 1 year on the new Temporary Resident permits, you will get only a 1 year extension on your TIP. For the 2’nd year of your new Residente Temporal, you can apply for a 3 year permit. and then you start the whole dance all over again at the end of that 4 year cycle….

       Are you working in Mexico? If so, the whole plan falls apart…
       Current Aduana rules say only Tarjeta No Lucrativa cardholders are allowed to have a TIP.
       steve

       Reply
213. Benjamin Giles says:

     March 20, 2013 at 5:03 pm

     Steve,
     I really appreciate your rapid response, but I still need a follow up on what I should do. I am carefully trying to digest your info in light of my circumstance. I am not working, but am retired. The below information and your response will impact several friends in Mazatlan who are in the same boat as I am. It appears you are a wealth of knowledge about immigration as you response will surely enlighten my retiree friends. My wife and I are currently visiting friends in Puerto Vallarta and they too, are confused.
     I have been renewing my FM-3 every single year in Sep. for the last 7 years. I have never had 5 years on one FM-3 nor 2 years on my current FM-3. Immediately after I received my FM-3, I had a letter typed up to take to Aduana to update my vehicle sticker for another year, keeping the letter in my vehicle. My next renewal date is Oct. 2, 2013, but am confused about what I should do about renewing my sticker. We have never removed a sticker from our vehicle unless drove from Houston to the Columbia crossing and had the Mexican’s remove the sticker so we could clear the vehicle for our trade on another vehicle.When we crossed the border again in July, 2012 we paid the $400+ USD for the sticker on our 2010 Cadillac SRX and continued our trip to Mazatlan. Our next planned trip to Houston is in mid May, 2013 and I will be remaining in the U.S. until the end of July. When we return to Mazatlan at that time and based on my FM-3 expiration on Oct. 2, we had planned to drive straight to Mazatlan using the sticker we have on our car as we always did in the past. Our second trip to the U.S. (short trip) is planned for mid Nov., but returning on Dec. 5-6
     1. Given this info, do you believe my best option for an immigration permit would be the Residente Temporal or a Visitante INM permit?
     2. If I went with the Visitante permit, I assume I could drive to the border, cross the border and return and register my SRX as many times as I wanted to…correct?
     3. I personally believe that the Residente Temporal looks to be my best bet so far, but I need your advice.
     4. Are you saying that I could get an extension on my current vehicle sticker 2 weeks before the Oct. 2. FM-3 expiration if I applied in mid Sep., 2013?
     5. Assuming that my extension will not last through our next Nov. drive to the U.S.,how, where and when do I have to turn in my vehicle sticker?
     6. I am confused when you said I had to cancel/surrender my INM ( immigration permit) along with my vehicle permit…Why?
     7. I now assume that I must make a special unplanned trip to the border in Oct. just to have my vehicle sticker removed. I would then use my new Residente Temporal status and reapply for a new vehicle sticker when we crossed the border again…correct?
     8. We have some friends who have foreign made vehicles registered in the U.S. who told me that Japanese vehicle could not be registered or tagged in Mexico under any circumstance,
     that they would have to sell their vehicles in the U.S. Is that true?
     I cannot begin to thank you enough for your assistance and most likely I will have follow ups. I have been reading many of you very good responses.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 20, 2013 at 5:47 pm

       Hi Benjamin,
       You wrote:
       “I have been renewing my FM-3 every single year in Sep. for the last 7 years.”
       This is simply not possible under the law. I asked you to look at the back of your current FM3 card and reply back with the number. That number describes how many years (out of 5 total) you will have used on your current permit at the date of expiration. e.g. If you permit has a ” Prórroga 4 ” or ” Prórroga 5 “, then you will not be able to apply for renewing your FM3 as a Residente Temporal inside Mexico. With a “4” or “5”, you would definitely have to take your car out of Mexico, surrender both TIP and FM3 at the border, and start again at a Mexican Consulate in the USA.

       Because you did not answer our previous question about how many years are listed on your current FM3/No Inmigrante card, we really cannot answer your question #1, #3, #4 or #7. Please send a reply with that ” Prórroga ” number, if you want answers.

       2. Maybe. Some Aduana border crossings and some Aduana border agents are issuing 6 month TIPs to go with 6 month Visitante permits. Other crossings and some agents are only issuing 1 month to 3 month TIPs and INM permits. Hopefully, these variations will lift, and then you could reliably get 6 month renewals on each.

       5. If you must turn in your sticker, then you can surrender your sticker and paper TIP at any border crossing with an Aduana office, or any port with an Aduana office, and even at interior non-airport Aduana offices.

       6. Please read the explanation in our previous reply to your first questions. Consulates have NOT allowed foreigners who still have active TIPs to apply for Residente Temporal…

       8. Under Aduana DF’s current official policies, J cars can be in Mexico using Permisos de Importación Temporal de vehiculos (TIPs). Frankly, there are so many gringos who do not speak decent Spanish yet they think they are understanding, others hire mediocre lawyers, and then they get strange or screwy answers from their mediocre lawyers, or they do it by themselves but really do not understand what the Aduana agent told them in Spanish (or broken English), and those gringos go on to tell others about their experiences, propagating the basically incorrect or incomplete reasons about what happened to them. This means that their stories are just that: stories.

       Interesting stories may or may not be useful when making your own choices.
       steve

       Reply
       • Benjamin Giles says:

         March 21, 2013 at 12:41 pm

         Steve,
         Thank you so very much for your straightening me out. I looked on the back of my FM-3 and it says “Prorroga 2” which means nothing to me as I have never even bothered to look at that before. I had no earthly idea what a Prorroga 2 means, but would appreciate it if you, once again, explain the difference between what a “2” means versus the othe numbers. Although I have been married to a beautiful Mexican lady 17 years younger than I am, I still cannot speak the language very well after 20 years. I have heard so many stories about the new immigration and Aduana laws that my head is spinning. You are the very first person who has knowledge and that I can pass on to my friends whose heads are spinning too. Maybe now that you know I have a Prorroga 2, you can answer the other questions. I can guaranttee you that none of my friends have any idea what a Prorroga number means on their FM-3. I really appreciate your help and THANKS again. Looking forward to your response.
       • yucalandia says:

         March 21, 2013 at 1:33 pm

         Hi Benjamin,
         Thanks for reading the number: a “Prórroga 2” means that you will have completed 2 years on this FM3/No Inmigrante permit when it expires this year. This means you would have 2 more years left of eligibility to be a Residente Temporal, and 2 more years to keep your TIP car here.

         Alternately, if you want Residente Permanente, and you want to permanently import a NAFTA car at the border, you could ask INM to please aggregate 2 previous years from your prior FM3, to have a total of 4 continuous years of Residency – to qualify for Residente Permanente. Many INM offices across Mexico allow aggregating years from different permits to qualify, while a few do not….

         Hope that covers things,
         steve
214. Benjamin Giles says:

     March 21, 2013 at 9:07 pm

     Steve,
     Thanks so much for the info. I still have a couple of points. I assume you are saying that sometime in Sep., 2013, prior to my Oct. 2 expiration date of my FM-3, I can start renewal of my status as a Residente Temporal. Can I then take my new Residente Temporal status, after it’s issue in Oct., to Aduana and they will provide me with a letter to allow me to retain my Mexican vehicle sticker without having to go back to the border? Will the receipt from immigration be OK for me to continue driving our vehicle in Oct. until I receive my Residente Temporal? We are due to drive to Puerto Vallarta on Oct. 8-11 on reservations already made for those dates? Will the new Residente Temporal status will be good enough for 2 more years as well as my vehicle remaining in Mexico for 2 years?. Since I would never want to register my vehicle in Mexico, I would never be able to obtain a Residente Permante nor does it really matter. I am more interested in assuring my vehicle will be legal and I can drive it back and forth to the U.S. without a problem. Also, can I still leave the sticker on my vehicle as I drive back and forth across the border? Based on the above, what are my options at the 2 year mark if I do not want Residente Permante status? Can I apply for another 2 years as a Residente Temporal so I can continue to keep my vehicle registered in Texas?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 21, 2013 at 9:54 pm

       Hi Benjamin,
       All good points.

       The only hiccups I see in your plans:
       1. Since INM has been taking 6 to 9 weeks to process even simple renewals of Residente Temporal permits: To start the TIP renewal process 2 weeks before your TIP expires, you will likely not have the Temporal permit in hand. You would instead go to Aduana with a printed copy of the INM document showing your Temporal application has been accepted and started.

       2. I would be willing to bet $100 that by next September when you apply, the Aduana system and Aduana rules will not be the same as they are right now. e.g. The Camara de Diputados may have passed a new law offering an amnesty period where you could easily import the vehicle, which would make Residente Permanente an option???
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
215. BeachBum says:

     March 22, 2013 at 12:34 am

     I first obtained my FM-3 in December 2009. I have since renewed in 2010, 2011 and 2012. I was renewed as a Residente Temporal this year. The lady that helped me at the immigration office this last time said that in December 2013 I will be eligible for a Residente Permanente. Is this accurate? If so should I be prepared to show six months worth of bank statements along with the rest of it or will it be the same process as my 3 prior renewals(where I didn’t have to show bank statements)?

     Reply
216. Bib says:

     March 23, 2013 at 10:13 pm

     This is a great site. Thank you for all of the information. I am in Mazatlan and have what should be a simple issue that I cannot get straightened out. I had one year with an FM 3 and applied and paid on the 10th of January for a 4 year Residente Temporal. I came back a week or so later and gave fingerprints and provided photographs. Everything was in order. My new card arrived but they had inadvertently used someone else’s photo so it was sent back to Mexico City to be corrected. I was told it would be returned to me in a week or two. It has now been about 7 weeks and still no card. I have been to the immigration office several times to check and worked with an interpreter, but I keep being told one more week. It is getting close to when I have to leave the country for the season and return to my work. I don’t know what else to do? Also, I now don’t have my card to use for leaving the country. I was told I may need a temporary permit to leave but must return within 60 days. I will not be able to do that. It does not seen right that such is needed when I have done everything right but a simple error occurred. Any suggestions?

     Mazatlan Bob

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 23, 2013 at 10:32 pm

       Hi Bob,
       Ewwwwwww…. believable, but weird.

       Did you submit new fotos?

       I think you may need to speak with the Delegado at your INM office, to escalate the issue to the highest local level to expedite things. … just requesting a formal cita with the Delegado may shake the branches enough to get it to drop out, but I still worry that if DF lost your fotos, it may be best for the local office to resubmit them and whatever other documentation is needed to get DF to process a new ID vs, trying to find the old one,
       steve

       Reply
217. Bob says:

     March 24, 2013 at 6:55 pm

     I tend to agree. I asked to submit new photos, but the local INS person said that was not necessary. I am not convinced since it has been so long. She said she would call to Mexico City. I plan to call the hotline number on Monday and see what they can tell me. I can’t really force them to resubmit photos, but I will ask again. Thank you for your ideas!

     Reply
218. KHamilton says:

     March 28, 2013 at 11:08 pm

     All the changes and legal speak have left me and those I work with very confused. Basically, I’m an FM2 holder, without any complications or assistance (Mexican dependents, property or others). I’ve been living and working in Mexico for 8 years now. I completed 5 years on the old FM3 and then switched to FM2. I switched in order to be able to apply for citizenship after the required 10 years. What does the new law mean for someone like me? When my FM2 expiration comes due, can I automatically apply for citizenship?

     Thanks!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 29, 2013 at 12:06 am

       Hi K,
       The existing SRE rules are/were to complete 4.5 years on an FM2/Inmigrante (=> the visa that is near full-time residency), and then apply for Citizenship while you still had 6 months left on an INM permit. (Also you cannot be outside of Mexico for more than 180 days out of the last 24 months.) (We are not aware of any 10 year rule. – read the SRE webpages and SRE’s DOF publications and I think you will find there is not 10 year rule.)

       Well, since the new INM (SEGOB) law forces one to go to Residente Permanente after just 4 years of FM2/No Inmigrante/Residente Temporal, it makes a mess for the existing SRE “5 year Inmigrante/FM2″ rule. The lawyer we have spoken to on this says to get a Residente Permanente card, to meet the 5 year requirement. This makes sense, because the existing SRE rules allow the old Inmigrado card holders to apply for citizenship, and Inmigrado = Residente Permanente plus one year, or 2 years, or 3 years, or 4 yearss-**…

       If you live in Yucatan, the Merida INM office fortunately combines past FM3 years with current FM2 years, where your aggregate of more than 4 years on FM2+FM3 qualifies you for Residente Permanente.

       **As to your final question, since you did not complete 5 years on an FM2, SRE rules say that you definitely do not qualify for citizenship yet. That leaves you in a bit of limbo for citizenship, because you will have qualified for Residente Permanente with just 3 years on an FM2. This means that to hit 5 years of official full time residency status, you will likely*** have to complete 2 additional years of Residente Permanente to add to your prior 3 completed years of FM2.

       ***I say “likely” because SRE has not made a public ruling on this issue, yet,
       steve

       Reply
219. mexicomysticBob Cox says:

     March 29, 2013 at 11:08 am

     I recently became a Citizen here, there are definitely some advantages to doing this, I can now do anything a Mexican Citizen can do. I don’t have to go to Immigrations, fill out any more papers or pay to be here. I talked to the American Embassy and told them I was about to become a Mexican Citizen and asked how it effected my U.S. Citzenship, they said… We arent against Dual Citizenship … If INS asked me to turn in my U.S. Passport just come apply for a New one.. (They didnt)…. But when crossing the border only show your U.S. Passport and coming back only show your Mx. Passport.
     Heres something that may cause concern to persons getting Mx. Citizenship: Relations Exterior will give you a Document of Naturalization and … They will have you sign a paper saying you renounce All other citizenships. This is a “technicality”, Why do this if they (Mx) also recognize Dual Nationals? … I think it’s because if you break the law and in the legal system you then declare you are an American, they will come up with this paper with your signature… so as long as you are law abiding and obey Mexican Law there should be no problem.
     Here’s another thing about the 5 year rule… after 3 years on an FM3 and 2 years on an FM2… I told them Now I want to be Naturalized… they said: Yes that’s fine except you have to have a valid FM2 that has at least 6 months more on it before it expires… so I had to go through that process with INS again: Note this means you only have a 6 month period to complete these requirements… you’ll be surprised how rapidly that time flies. You will be asked for 2 background checks, one lfrom the State and one Federal, Getting Apostilladas for my Birth certificate was the most time consuming of all. The moment you get your Last FM2 you should immediately start the Naturalization process at Relations Exterior. And you should go and talk to someone there and they will give you a list of requirements. Since rules constantly change you should go to the SRE web page in English to see whats happening. Getting a lawyer MAY help but it will definitely cost you. I did All of this on my own just by going and asking questions at INS and SRE. Good Luck and hope we can all meet some day Paisanos !!!

     Reply
220. Linda Leonard says:

     March 29, 2013 at 1:45 pm

     Thank you for sharing that info. Recently got my Res. Permanente and want to start looking into being Nationalized. So I have some questions you might be able to answer for me:
     1. what is the process for getting the 2 background checks?
     2. where do I find Relations Exterior?
     3. do Canadians also need apostilladas for birth certificate? How do I do that? Can I get that done before starting the nationalization process?

     Thanks for any info.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 29, 2013 at 7:08 pm

       Hi Linda,
       I hope Bob Cox comes back to answer your questions. I understand that one of the background checks required a trip to DF?
       ???
       Since the Canadians refused to sign the Hague treaty, Canadian citizens have to do some special activities to meet the document certification requirements of other nations – called “legalizing” a document. Our New Immigration Procedures article has this description of how Canadians may work around the apostille/notarization issues for their documents:
       “If the document is issued in Canada it must be notarized, legalized by the Mexican Consulate or Embassy in Canada, and translated into Spanish.” http://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/calgary/index.php/inicio

       The SRE Website for Canada describes the Legalization process as:
       http://embamex.sre.gob.mx/canada_eng/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1255&Itemid=41
       Legalization of Foreign Documents (for Canada)

       Consular legalization is performed on foreign public documents that must be valid for legal purposes in Mexico.

       Legalization may be provided to the signature and/or stamps contained in public documents. It is an act of certification through which the consular official certifies that the signature or seal is from a government office or official, or from a notary located within the consular jurisdiction. This certification does not prejudge the content of the document.

       Canada IS NOT a Member State of the Hague Convention Abolishing the Requirement for Legalisation of Foreign Public Documents (known as the Apostille convention), and therefore the interested party must go to the corresponding Mexican consular office to obtain the legalization of any Canadian public document that he wishes to be legally valid in Mexico.

       Each consular office is empowered to legalize documents issued within its jurisdiction.
       Be sure to check the SRE website for Canada listed above to get contact information and details on all the Mexican Consulates in Mexico.
       Hope that helps,
       steve

       Reply
221. jakejohnson says:

     March 29, 2013 at 7:05 pm

     Thanks for all this information on immigration. I learned a lot.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 29, 2013 at 9:09 pm

       You’re welcome.

       Reply
222. Linda Leonard says:

     March 29, 2013 at 7:37 pm

     Thanks for some excellent info. Can you tell me if I can I get my Canadian documents (birth certificate) legalized here in Mexico? since I live here? or do I have to get it done in Canada?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 29, 2013 at 8:51 pm

       Hi Linda,
       To the best of my knowledge, you have to get recent originals from Canada, legalized in Canada (per the SRE site) – as my quotes on the legalization procedures came from the SRE site.
       (but I am just now learning the SRE/Citizenship myself – and every talented foreigner I have asked says to hire a good lawyer for the citizenship process- where getting an INM permit is an easy Do It Yourself project, the citizenship process is said to be more complex ),
       steve

       Reply
223. mexicomysticBob Cox says:

     March 29, 2013 at 9:46 pm

     Sorry to answer so late.. went to see the phantom of the opera with my wife…
     I think Steve’s correct about the apostilladas for Canadian citizens… (way to go Canada) , I suggest looking for a webpage from the Canadian Embassy to see if you can get some info there.
     Go to SRE and ask about requirements, they will give you a list.
     As for background checks (Antecedentes No Penales)… they are only interested about your time in Mexico… ask at SRE where State and Federal Procuraduria Offices are… I heard that the SRE Offices closed in Zihuantenejo and everyone there has to go to Acapulco. I had to go to Mexico City for the Federal Background check…. but I’m only 2 hours away. Ask SRE about that also maybe they have a branch office closer to you. The trip there , if you have to go to Mexico City, be sure to go early or get a room and go the next morning… when I went there were 200 people in line and I thought uh oh! this is going to take time, after entering the building it only took 15 minutes to get the paper,,,, they said dont worry …we have your adress and if we find out your wanted we’ll come by and arrest you. NOTE: getting the background check should be close to the last thing you do as the paper is only good for a couple of weeks…if the date expires you will have to do it again… the State charged me $100 pesos… the Federal cost me nothing… its different in different states..
     Look for SRE locations on GOOGLE.
     They were real finicky about my Birth Certificate… it had to be in Pristine shape.. I had an original that was tattered and aging… they said NO…it has to be a certified copy…NO LESS THAN TWO YEARS OLD… So I had to get a new one from the States and an Apostillada on it… Also our marriage certificate couldnt be more than 2 years old …but because I was married in Mexico no Apostillada was required.
     Good Luck….. Bob

     Reply
224. Iqbal Muhammad Al Muktadir says:

     April 18, 2013 at 2:52 pm

     Hi Steve, I am Engineer Iqbal M. Muktadir here, before I told you I am in Mexico under 6 months FMM multiple entries tourist visa, as per your advice, I applied for USA for tourist visa, but at first Application service center(ASC) wanted to show them FM residence status, when I told them about new rule & I cannot change directly my FMM status to FM3 or FM2, so I don’t have FM3 or FM2 legal residence card, but as per INM telephonic conversation, I am eligible to apply for US visa & go to USA, then they accepted me for taking my photograph & fingerprint, but they also told me that when you go to the consulate for interview then the consular may ask to present your FMM card of legal status in Mexico. My interview date is 22nd April, 2013 in Guadalajara US consulate. My question is: – Is there any system in INM to get the FMM residence card while a tourist is staying in Mexico under FMM visitante 6 months multiple entry tourist visa? Please let me know if there is any procedure to get such types of documents from immigration. or the FMM small form which I fill out when I enter into Mexico & require this for departure time – Is this card enough & will cover my FMM status everywhere? Do I need any separate document or card for FMM status? Please let me know ASAP.
     Thanking you in anticipation of your kind cooperation.

     Best Regards,
     Iqbal Md. Al Muktadir
     Electrical Engineer
     E-mail: muktadir_kuet@yahoo.com

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 19, 2013 at 12:49 pm

       Hello Ing. Muktadir,
       Your wrote:
       “Is there any system in INM to get the FMM residence card while a tourist is staying in Mexico under FMM visitante 6 months multiple entry tourist visa? Please let me know if there is any procedure to get such types of documents from immigration. ”

       There is no system as an ordinary tourist or ordinary visitor to legally apply for Mexican residency from inside Mexico.

       If, instead, you have family members here who have residency, then you can apply “to keep the family together”. …or… As an Engineer, you may very well qualify as a person who offers valuable skills to Mexico. There is even a special INM category for scientists and engineers to qualify as residents. From the New May 2011 INM Law, Article 57, Item II. :

       “The Mexican Gob. will introduce a new Points System for permanent resident applicants who would like to be granted residency before the standard 4 year temporary residency requirements. The Points can be awarded based on level of education, work experience, skills in areas related to the development of science and technology, international surveys, and the skills to develop activities that are required by Mexico. ”

       Contact:
       Immigration Hotline
       01-800-004-6264
       24 hours / day and 7 days a week.

       If you have an offer letter from a Mexican business or University to work as an Engineer – providing specialized “skills that are needed by Mexico”, then INM may open that door for you to apply for a Mexican residency permit, without leaving Mexico.

       Contact the national Immigration hotline, and contact your local INM office for details on how to apply,
       steve

       Reply
225. Kay says:

     April 22, 2013 at 3:15 pm

     I want to avoid getting a permanent residence visa. I currently have an FM2 “refrendo 2” (I’ve completed 2 years and now on my 3rd year); classification – Renista. What will happen when I renew my FM2 in Nov. 2013? Will I receive Permanent Residence visa with 2 more years to complete the term of 5 years or whatever the amount of time is required? If this is the case, I then would like to change over to a Temporary resident visa? Is this possible?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 23, 2013 at 7:26 am

       Hi Kay,
       Formally, you qualify for 1 more year of Residente Temporal. This means you simply apply to extend your current Inmigrante Rentista as Residente Temporal, in your solicitud (application letter) ~ for the legally-allowed 4 year total.
       steve

       Reply
226. Fred says:

     June 3, 2013 at 4:01 pm

     San Luis Potosi S.L.P.- My application for permanent res will take 3 weeks to get the card, according to the agent. Migration wanted 6 months financials , formato basico, app to change status, 3 front and 2 right photos, 2 letters, one requesting my change of status and another from my Mexican wife stating that she will support me. I have 4 renewals on my no inmigrante rentista and more than enough income in USA and wife´s business here to handle everything. Very different requirements than most that I have read.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       June 3, 2013 at 9:55 pm

       Hi Fred,
       Amen.

       They used their discretion to ask for way more than the minimum requirements in at least 3 areas.
       Good report ! Especially if there are SLP readers, married to Mexicans, who plan to apply for Residente Permanente.
       steve

       Reply

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228. Randy Ore says:

     June 14, 2013 at 3:13 pm

     Hi Steve,

     My wife and I have been going in and out of Mexico on a tourist visa, just renewing each time we come in. We bought a house in Playa del Carmen and are going to apply now for the Residente Temporal. I believe we can apply online like you have mentioned above. My main concern is can we continue to go in and out of Mexico on a tourist visa while we are applying for our visa? Also, does it matter which consulate we visit to complete our paperwork, bank statements, photograghs, etc.? Looks like the first step is to apply online?

     Thank for taking the time to help out,

     Randy

     Reply
229. Carlos says:

     June 19, 2013 at 2:50 pm

     Regarding the NUT number. Can you tell me what NUT means?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       June 25, 2013 at 10:45 pm

       Hi …Carlos,
       I believe it is the Numero Unico de Tramite…
       steve

       Reply
230. Eric says:

     June 30, 2013 at 10:47 am

     Hi,
     Thanks for all the great info! I just wanted to point out the math mistake/typo made at the top of the page regarding bank account or income for family member of Mexican citizen. You used the same figure of $480 for both ….the bank account balance of 300X should be 3 times the figure for income of 100X. In other words it should read ($1438 USDs @ 13:1)
     keep up all the great work providing info!
     Eric

     Reply
     • Eric says:

       June 30, 2013 at 10:50 am

       Also, one more thing. Can you provide link to website for the regulations in Spanish that show the above income or account requirements?
       Thanks again, Eric

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         July 3, 2013 at 6:53 am

         Hi Eric,
         It is in our main immigration article: https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/ New Rules and Procedures for Immigration, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico .

         See: https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Proof%20of%20Financial%20Independence%20for%20Residency%20Applicants Proof of Fiscal Solvency for Residency Applicants.
         Enjoy
         steve
231. Casey Haslstead says:

     July 15, 2013 at 8:01 pm

     A little Help

     I have been planning on moving to Mexico for a couple years (studying the old laws) and this is trowing me for a loop. I can’t qualify for the new financial requirements but I’m not sure I need to. I think my plans may be ruined and this may have made it easier. If you know the answer to any of these questions PLEASE chime in.

     1) Can a visitor (tourist) buy/sell land without the intention of becoming a resident? The old law allowed purchase but it but required residency applications afterwards. I suspect this answer might change in the restricted zone due to banks/trusts/businesses needed to buy it (presume outside for now). I can’t tell if they want to prohibit non resident purchases or if the point was to encourage snowbirds to come/buy/go home without the residency hassel. I can’t imagine they would stop you from buying land but would selling it be considered remuneration.

     2) The new laws say a business owner that employs 5 people can become a resident. If this can override the financial requirements it would be great. But I still don’t see a process for starting a business on a vistors visa. Perhaps this is just to grandfather the old FM2/FM3 holding business owners, or you can buy a business or I am missing something.

     3) I read the 180 day tourist visa can be extended for an additional 180 days. Does anyone know how many times? If you can only get 2 can you go home for a day and return (a month?) Can you go to Belize for a day and get another like in Costa Rica/Nicaragua?

     4) Any idea when the points system details will be announced. I am a Biologist (BA), Whitewater River Guide, PADI Divemaster, First Responder with 15-20 years in Tourism and Hospitality. My Spanish is passable and improving. Anyone willing to speculate if that will cut it. I also know a few educated Mexicans and tons of FM3 holders. Anyone think the “relationship” method will include quasi-formal relationships or small business partnerships?

     5) I read that visitors (tourists) can now open bank accounts. Is that true.

     FYI
     I am trying to launch a small multinational NPO/NGO dedicated to helping travelers prevent poverty in paradise. It is based on the habitat for humanity model but is micro scale and focused on permaculture, appropriate technologies and cultural tourism. Our facilities will research appropriate technologies and maintain a botanical garden but our primary purpose is to harness the power of caring travelers to deliver crops and technologies to Mexico’s poorest most remote communities. The idea is combine various elements from community tourism organization I have seen throughout Central America and Mexico into one international organization.

     The new laws don’t appear to be very conducive to doing this unless you have the big bucks. I am not a rich man and this is an idea I came up with because I love Latin America, permaculture and appropriate technologies. I have wanted to start a tropical permaculture project and have a place to tinker with cool technologies for years…but don’t really need a farm or a methane digester (why not grow it/build it…then give it away). Over years of traveling I have noticed I’m not alone and I wanted to create a place for like minds and volunteers. I found a 5 hectare property between Bacalar and Chetumal for $5000 but now I can’t figure out if its legal to buy it or operate an organization like this informally.

     Is this the perfect case of,”Siempre es mejor pedir PERDON que pedir PERMISO”.

     I suspect some day the organization (or myself) may be successful enough to meet the new NPO requirement (basically same as for profits) for executives but that will be many years down the road. This organization will have a second office in Nicaragua and even thou we don’t plan on having an office Costa Rica, we are affiliated with several businesses/NPO/families there as well. I plan on going back and forth between each country and home (Colorado) a lot. I don’t foresee needing even 6 months but I certainly might want 2 years at some point. The real kicker is can the organization even exist without a business license and if it grows how do I keep it up and running for the time I’m gone.

     IDK if it matters but the organization will be a registered 501 3 c NPO in the USA to encourage donations and insure participants that we are legitimate.

     Of course I need to speak with an attorney down there but I would love to know some of this before my next trip down.

     Thanks in advance

     Reply
232. simongullberg says:

     October 20, 2013 at 12:59 pm

     Hi! I forgot to get my visa at the border in Tijuana. Im on a bicycle and at the moment im in La Paz. Do you know if its possible to get a turist visa in La Paz? If it is how? I need to take the ferry asap and for that I need my visa.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 20, 2013 at 9:43 pm

       Hi Simon,
       Since you are still in the Free Zone, (Baja California Sur), then you don’t need an Visitante permit to visit there. In the past, visitors were allowed 7 days in Baja or Baja California Sur without a tourist visa, but we are not up to date on the current special regulations that apply to BC and BCS.

       Some internet sources say you must go back to the US border, but I would check with INM in La Paz, and ask what options they have for people who want to cross to the mainland.
       steve

       Reply
233. jason says:

     December 19, 2013 at 2:31 pm

     hello,

     great site ,very informative.

     My wife and I are having problems at the consulate in Atlanta,ga.We went there and requested temp. resident visas. We told the lady what documents we were using to prove economic solvency. We are going under the monthly deposit requirments. My wife gets her income from a job and a business we run. our monthly deposits are 3 times what is required. the lady at the consulate said she will not accept self employment income since the regulations say the word “Employment”. We have a difference of opinion of what the word “Employment” means. Last week she said she would accept all income, and has since changed her mind. We seem to have made her angry with us going back and fourth with how we derive our income.

     Talking to other people that are currently in Mexico, it seems that some consulates are tough and others are easy. We dont know what to do now. We meet the requirements,but are not getting our visas.CAN we go to a different consulate where people have had better results,

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 19, 2013 at 4:59 pm

       Hi Jason,
       Other people report that the Mexican Consulates in Laredo Texas, San Antonio TX, Phoenix, and Chicago have been very accomodating. I would contact the Consulates in Texas first before driving – and explain that you would like to apply as you are approaching Mexico.

       Reply
234. jason says:

     December 20, 2013 at 12:50 pm

     the problem we seem to be having is a lack of paystubs. I read over at Mexconnect that someone was self employed like us and was approved because they used a paystub service to provide them with paystub

     I was thinking we would enter mexico on a tourist visa, get our paperwork in order, and return to the border and enter a cnsulate elsewhere in say 2-6 months from now.
     I just hate to have to fly 4 people and 3 dogs back and fourth to accomplish this.

     I read somewhere else that people had sucess with going to Belize and applying at the consulate there….

     Anybody want to chime in on this situation, feel free. I need advice from others who have been there and done that !

     thanks

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 21, 2013 at 9:21 am

       See: http://www.yolisto.com/topic/7154-temporary-resident-visa-belize/?hl=belize

       Reply
235. Al says:

     January 1, 2014 at 4:38 pm

     I am duly IMPRESSED with your knowledge base that is exhibited on your site !
     I also have a question that I hope you would allow for in case it has been answered before…..
     I have flipped through pages and pages without seeing a ‘concrete’ answer…

     “One significant change due to the 2011 “new” law is that visitors in Mexico on tourist/Visitante visas CANNOT apply to change immigration status while inside Mexico. Visitantes must apply at a Consulate first from outside Mexico to get a new Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente. Further, Visitantes must apply for their Mexican residency visas from their home country. The consulates do not issue Residency visas. Visitantes make their applications and pay fees at their local Mexican Consulate, in their home country, and then the Consulates give you an official notice to submit with your passport when you next enter Mexico. Visitantes then have 180 days to travel to Mexico to continue the process. In Mexico, Visitantes must go to their local INM office within 30 days of entering Mexico to complete the process of getting your Residente Temporal permit.”

     I have two years of FM3 status and a two year Temporal status since 2010, which expires in November 2014.
     At which time I will apply for Permanante status.
     Can I do so within a period of time prior to its expiration outside MX ?
     I have heard that the MX consulate in Chicago is amendable to such application ?
     Thank you ver much.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 1, 2014 at 8:32 pm

       Hi Al,
       There were a few reports earlier this year that a few INM offices were allowing people to apply before the 30 day window before their visa’s expiration date. Within 2 months, all the INM offices started a uniform policy of not allowing early applications. We have neither read nor heard any reports that the Consulates are accepting applications to change from Residente Temporal to Residente Permanente. The INM offices have actually been requiring that Residente Permanente applicants actually wait until their Temporal has just expired, and then file the application at your INM office on the next business day.

       There is nothing in the INM law or Lineamientos or Reglamento to permit Consulates to accept the applications to change to permanent status.

       Has anyone else out there heard of the MX consulate in Chicago successfully starting the process?
       steve

       Reply
       • Andy says:

         January 25, 2014 at 6:23 pm

         I recently received my recidencia permenente in Acapulco after having 3 years on a FM3 and one year on a recidencia temporal. I was ready if it would have come down to it but I think they are letting those in between through. I was paid a visit by INM agents at my bungalow(they were very polite and friendly) to verify everything was on the up and up, but other than that it was a very smooth process.
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238. charles okoh says:

     June 20, 2014 at 11:08 am

     hello, i have been married for 10 months now to a Mexican woman, our marriage was recognized by immigration, and i was told that i can file in for permanent residence after two years, and can also file in for a Mexican passport as a Mexican, please i will like you to explain the process that i have to follow, when its time, what do i do, where do i go, what document do i source for, and how do i get started, i will appreciate your help, thanks

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       June 20, 2014 at 4:37 pm

       Hi Charles,
       Was your marriage approved and registered officially at a Registro Civil office in Mexico?

       If so, then you just follow the instructions for “Vinculo Familiar” in our main article on Visiting an Immigrating to Mexico at: https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/ … ~ Current Rules and Procedures for Immigration, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico ….

       Use the Table of Key Topics (near the top of the article) to find the subject you want – and click on that topic: https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Other%20Categories/Qualifications%20that%20Permit%20a%20Foreigner%20to%20Become%20a%20Residente%20Temporal … ~ Other Categories/Qualifications that Permit a Foreigner to Become a Residente … Go there and read the Vinculo Familiar section.

       Official INM Vinculo Familiar por Unidad Familiar Rules and Requirements : http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/Tramites_LM/Estancia_LM/Cambio_de_Condicion_de_Estancia/Cambio_de_condicion_de_residente_permanente_por_unidad_familiar.pdf
       and

       Click to access POR_VINCULO_FAMILIAR.pdf

       for the actual instructions.

       Reply
239. charles okoh says:

     July 19, 2014 at 9:47 am

     i just had a babe with a mexican lady, my wife, what can i do to get my permanent residence in mexico?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 19, 2014 at 11:23 am

       Hi Charles,
       If you want to use the family connection, the baby would need to be a registered Mexican citizen.

       Read the Vinculo Familiar – unidad de familias – section of our main article on immigrating to Mexico: https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/ … subsection: https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Special%20Rights%20of%20Foreigners%20who%20are%20Family%20Members%20of%20Mexican%20Citizens

       Best of luck,
       steve

       Reply
240. Barry Jones says:

     September 20, 2014 at 12:09 pm

     Hi there,

     Been following your site for a while now and have to say really good info on here.
     I have a question myself and was hoping for a quick answer. I have 1 year on a FM 3 and in March my second year of “Residente Temporal” expires. In total I then will have 3 years and will go for my 4th year renewl. The question is about the babk statements. My last renewl I had to show 3 months of statements. I have heared it’s 6 months now to renewl. Does that sound correct or is it still 3 months or is it more than 6 months?
     Would be great if you could let me know.
     Thanks so much

     Kind regards
     Barry

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 20, 2014 at 1:06 pm

       Hi Barry,
       In the published law, you are not required to show any bank statements in the renewals, but as always, the local INM offices have broad discretion and latitude in their local requirements for awarding renewals. Some offices do NOT ask for statement, some require 6 months of statement, others ask for just 3.

       It all depends on the choice of your local INM office,
       steve

       Reply
       • Barry Jones says:

         September 20, 2014 at 4:06 pm

         Thanks Steve for getting back to me, I really appreaciate it.

         Take it easy

         Barry
241. Katie says:

     September 24, 2014 at 1:56 pm

     Hi,
     I work for a non-profit immigration clinic. I am currently assisting a client whose status in Mexico is unclear. He is a citizen of an African country. He lived in Mexico for three years, and while there obtained an FM3 visa which he then renewed. The most recent time he renewed it, he was issued a permanent resident card. He did not think that he qualified for this card, since he had not yet been in Mexico for four consecutive years. The Mexican official affirmed this, and said that he would have to return the card and have the correct temporary resident card issued in its place. The individual has since left Mexico and travelled to a third country where his status is temporary. He is still in possession of the PR card. My question is, if he returned to Mexico, what would his status be? If he wanted to qualify for PR, legitimately, would he have to have another year of temporary resident status? Would he have to start from scratch and have four more years? (Apologies for the vagueness, I’ve held back on some details for confidentiality purposes.)

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 24, 2014 at 3:44 pm

       Hi Katie,
       I think your African friend’s situation requires that assistance of a lawyer who knows how the African’s INM office does things.

       I would hope that he could make a case that he has continued his Mexican Residency status for a period of more than 4 years, as a combination of the prior FM3 and the Residente Permanente visa. (?) If his INM office accepts that the error was theirs, they could agree that he would have had 4 total years of Residente Temporal + FM3 – but that is for the INM office to say.

       His INM office could just as easily say that he has not met the letter of the law, and must start all over again to accumulate 4 consecutive years of Mexican temporary residency before qualifying for a Residente Permanente.

       It’s all up to that single iNM office.
       steve

       Reply

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243. Nancy says:

     June 19, 2015 at 9:56 am

     Hi, my husband and I have received our temporal stamps from our consulate and are ready to move to Merida, I noticed in your blog that we need an introductory letter written in spanish, is this still required, what should it say? My Spanish is limited (right now) do you have an example?
     Thank you

     Reply

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246. Gregory Burger says:

     April 24, 2018 at 8:39 am

     Alan Sir ,I Married a Mexican Citizen in Tijuana Mexico in 2009 We are still married and living there . In the same year I received my fm card for temporary resident rentist , now in 2018 I want to get my permanent Mexican resident card , What do I need to do ? Where is the new immigration office located for this ? I already did my photos. , Financial , everything for my old expired fm card . Thank you for your Help

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 26, 2018 at 8:52 pm

       The answers to your questions are in our main article on immigrating to Mexico:

       ~ Current Rules and Procedures for Immigration ~ Immigrating to, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico

       As the spouse of a Mexican, you apply at INM under the Vinculo Familiar program.

       You don’t list your location, so we can’t tell you where your closest INM office is.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply