~ Current Rules and Procedures for Immigration ~ Immigrating to, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico

1,602 Responses to ~ Current Rules and Procedures for Immigration ~ Immigrating to, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico

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3. Solomon Freimuth says:

   November 12, 2012 at 8:05 am

   Good Morning Steve,
   I think we both had the same idea this morning, publish articles about the new immigration law! We write about the most exciting stuff!

   You have so much more patience than I do for writing down all the details all at once. This article is thorough and VERY detailed.

   Anyway, here is a brief summary of the renewal process. This is definitely a work in progress, because I haven’t had a chance to ask the immigration office how they want me to present renewals yet (I am going this morning), but this is at least what the law says:

   http://www.mymexicanlawyer.com/immigration-questions/changing-or-renewing-fm3fm2-to-temporary-or-permanent-resident-card/

   I am sort of hoping to ease some of the chaos that is going on in some of the online forums in the last week based on the changes in the law. Hopefully, everyone can exhale a little when they read that the RENEWAL process isn’t that hard.

   Saludos!
   Solomon

   Reply
   • yucalandia says:

     November 12, 2012 at 8:36 am

     Good Morning Solomon,
     You are a kind kind man.

     I know how much I appreciated good current information on the internet when we were planning our move to Mexico, 8 years ago. There were few sources of information on immigration or Custom’s rules for Mexico, and most of it was incorrect hear-say – things that people “had heard”, parroted over and over.

     Your insight about the lack of knowledge getting some expats unnecessarily worked-up fits our experience this weekend. There has been a series of vigorous discussions going on at Mexconnect (a very good national forum for expats) and also on our local Yolisto. Fortunately, most of the issues have been minor, except for concerns about the increase in financial independence requirements, aka the difference between typical United States Social Security monthly checks for $1,300 vs the new INM requirement for $1,950 in monthly deposits to qualify for Residente Temporal.

     Ric Hoffman (another talented and helpful guy) has written some good summaries on Mexconnect describing how the new rules and processes really are improvements in a number of areas: http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=182701;page=4;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; and related pages.

     I am off to read your fresh article, and I wish you the best of luck in gleaning more insights and better understandings of the new INM law and rules this morning at your INM office. I am also heading over to our Merida INM office, to get a copy of their official list of things to bring to the INM office when applying for Residente Temporal and Residente Permanente.

     All the best,
     steve

     Reply
   • Nancy dicken says:

     January 16, 2013 at 1:56 am

     Good morning
     My husband and I made it all the way to the fingerprinting and were told to pick up or residence cards yesterday. When we attempted to pick them up, we were told that the applications have gone to Mexico City and will be neither three weeks. Anyone have this?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 16, 2013 at 8:26 am

       Hi Nancy,
       Your latest INM experience makes sense with what we know about the new system. In the normal “new process” steps”
       1. The foreigner makes an application.
       2. The application is accepted for processing at your local/regional INM office and has the foreigner pay.
       3. INM can ask for additional documentation, where they have you return to the INM office. They have you submit fotos.
       4. INM approves the application.
       5. INM notifies the foreigner that their permit is approved, and asks them to return to the office for fingerprinting.
       6. The applicant gets fingerprinted at the office, and they send your fotos, fingerprints, and information to a central office in Mexico City / D.F. for printing and laminating a national standard ID/permit card.
       7. The new laminated card is sent back to the regional office, and the regional office notifies the foreigner that their card is ready.
       8. The foreigner makes their last trip to the INM office, and gets their card.

       I am going to guess that your Spanish skills are like ours (less than perfect), so you were simply mistaken about coming in to get your final card, where you were actually at steps 5 & 6, needing to get fingerprinted. ??

       This means your process is right on track for finishing in about 2 more weeks.
       steve
     • Linda Leonard says:

       January 16, 2013 at 3:32 pm

       The link doesn’t seem to take me to where this is on the forum, as it usually does. How can I get to where this is posted and make a comment?
     • yucalandia says:

       January 16, 2013 at 6:56 pm

       Linda,
       What link is not working the way you expect?
       steve
     • Linda Leonard says:

       January 16, 2013 at 7:34 pm

       I was emailed a post by Nancy dicken, and also received your reply. When I click on reply or comment at the bottom, it takes me to the section on the website called New Rules and Procedures for Immigration, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico but once there I can’t find the posts by Nancy or your reply to her. Usually when I get an email with a post like this, I click on reply and it opens right where the post is on the website and I can add my 2 pesos. How can I find the posts by Nancy & you?
     • yucalandia says:

       January 16, 2013 at 7:49 pm

       Nancy replied to an earlier comment by Atty. Lic. Solomon Freimuth:
       Her reply was submitted on 2013/01/16 at 1:56 am.

       Look in this article, in the comments made by Solomon Freimuth.
       steve
     • Linda Leonard says:

       January 16, 2013 at 8:08 pm

       Aha! Found it. Muchas gracias for taking the time to help me.
4. ranchosolymar says:

   November 12, 2012 at 10:43 am

   I admittedly have not read the changes issued directly regarding the new immigration laws, but it appears there is one new advantage. Previously on an fm2 with a desire to become a nationalized citizen one was limited to 2 months outside of Mexico and I don’t see that this requirement is in the new regs, am I correct? I have asked this several times on Mexconnect with no response.
   Thanks!

   Reply
   • yucalandia says:

     November 12, 2012 at 11:04 am

     Correct.

     Neither us nor Ric Hoffman nor Solomon Freimuth (and others) have seen anything in the 2011 Law, the Reglamento, or the Lineamientos that raise this restriction on time out of the country. Actually, the old limit was 18 months outside of Mexico over the 5 year Inmigrante/FM2 period.

     My head is tired from all the writing, but the final word on this should be checked with SRE’s requirements.

     SRE has a long past record of checking Inmigrante passports to prove that they have been “Residents” in the years before the application for Citizenship. If the passport stamps and dates are illegible, or if the applicant has been out of the country more than SRE likes, then SRE can and does reject applicants who they think have not behaved as good Residents. SRE is a different government agency than INM, so, they have their own policies, rules, and requirements.

     Really, we have found that talented attorneys can both valuable and may be essential for applying for citizenship in Mexico.

     Our best advice: Ask an attorney who specializes in Immigration and Citizenship – since individual SRE offices may not have hard and fast rules on how residency is determined and approved.

     SRE offices have a lot of discretion in what rules are applied and how they are applied. e.g. Our local SRE office has a reputation of rejecting nearly all of the Citizenship applications made when the attorney comes along with the expat to the first meeting with SRE personnel.

     According to recent reliable reports: If the applicant cannot handle the SRE first visit, with conversations and casual Q&A about the application on their own, with no family member or attorney aiding or prompting them, then the applications are rejected because the applicant effectively fails the Spanish competency requirement. Apparently, the SRE lady who receives and enters the applications is also the lady in charge of determining Spanish language comprehension and competency. Have some Mexican friend or relative come with you to help understand the Spanish, and you may be quietly but automatically rejected in our SRE office.

     This sort of good local advice from a knowledgeable attorney can save a lot of hassles and grief, by avoiding unexpected undocumented quirks at the local SRE offices???
     steve

     Reply
5. ranchosolymar says:

   November 12, 2012 at 12:14 pm

   Thank you! We do have a very good accountant who has handled all of our fm3 visa apps the past 7 years and a very good attorney who we will consult as we apply for our new visas this year. We had been on track 5 years fm3 and would have applied for 1st year fm2. It seems we may qualify now to apply for citizenship sooner under exceptions. We own a Sustainability Center and Off Grid Campground in a small village, and will be starting a non profit Woman’s Cooperative Dairy to make Artisanal Cheese. The investment amount and/or technical skills area in addition to employing 5 people or more may help. We do have rental property in Maine, 5 adult children and 2 grand babies to visit NOB, so the out of country allowed time is somewhat of an issue as we have normally taken 5 months a year. Thanks for your posting here and on Mexconnect.
   Holly

   Reply
6. yucalandia says:

   November 12, 2012 at 2:15 pm

   Are $31,165 pesos a month of regular deposits from pension payment sufficient in and of themselves to qualify an applicant for Residente Permanente?

   John Garvin and Ric Hoffman have initiated an interesting and potentially useful dialogue in the comments section on this, in our other original May 2011 article on the new law. See: New Immigration Law Published for Mexico – The Article at https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/new-immigration-law-published-for-mexico-the-article/

   John wrote:
   “Went to Immigration in San Miguel. One officer said time on FM-3 did not count. The Delgado said it did. Here was a huge shocker and a good one… One year on a FM-2 or 3 and $2500 PENSION income and you can apply got Permanent Resident. That income can be proven with bank statements PLUS letters from whom you receive the pension income or income tax statements etc. So I applied for Permanent resident. Final word on approval will be 2 weeks from today. Then one more step required and not sure of all the details.”
   (and later)
   “I did not realize the income was sufficient without “time served” of 4 years. I was told at immigration you need one year of a temporary or permanent visa (applied for at consulate) before the $2500 threshold kicked in.”

   Ric then gave very good details from the Transitorios from the 2011 Law describing how to document such qualifications.
   See Comments in https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/new-immigration-law-published-for-mexico-the-article/

   ********************************************
   Yucalandia’s Perspectives on this:
   Ah, the devil in the details.

   The original 2011 Law does have a clause that says that residents with sufficient pension income from government agencies or international organizations or private companies qualify for Residente Permanente – as we noted in our May 2011 original article on the New Law.

   Sub-category “III” to Article 54 (listed on the same page as Article 52 Sec. IX) reads:
   “Artículo 54. Se otorgará la condición de residente permanente al extranjero que se ubique en cualquiera de los siguientes supuestos: . . .
   …
   III. Que sean jubilados o pensionados que perciban de un gobierno extranjero o de organismos internacionales o de empresas particulares por servicios prestados en el exterior, un ingreso que les permita vivir en el país; ”

   Roughly translated:
   Article 54: Individuals who shall be granted permanent resident status due to any of the following circumstances:
   III: Individuals who are retirees or pensioners, who are entitled to a foreign government or international agencies or private companies for services rendered abroad, an income that allows them to live in the country;

   So, by our previous reading, monthly pension income above the requirement for Residente Permanente, $31,165 pesos a month of regular deposits, qualify for Residente Permanente.

   This could be interpreted as people and retirees who have “pensions”, receiving regular pension income payments, but not all previous “Inmigrante Rentistas” are pensioners under this interpretation.

   We hesitated to highlight this clause from the law in our new Immigration article, because everything we had found relating to it in the Reglamento and in the Lineamientos all pointed to ALSO requiring 4 years of Residente Permanente.

   We decided to wait to publish this interpretation, until there is definitive and consistent(?) confirmation that sufficient pension income is sufficient by itself to qualify a foreigner for Residente Permanente, because the Lineamientos and Reglamento seem to say otherwise.

   As such, we encourage readers to post their experiences with regional office rulings on this issue:
   1. ~ Are they approving Residente Permanente applications based solely on sufficient pension income?
   2. ~ Are they adding a requirement of 1 or 2 years on a Residente Temporal first?
   3. ~ Are they giving “credit” for 1 or 2 prior years on a current FM2 Inmigrante Rentista? (Immigrant Resident, Investment Income category) or
   4. ~ Are they approving Residente Permanente applications only with 4 years of prior Residente Temporal AND sufficient pension income?

   In the absence of direct clear instructions by the Reglamento or Lineamientos, we believe it is within the purview and rights of each Regional INM Delegado to choose to require any of the 4 options described above.

   Please keep sending in your comments and descriptions of your experiences to help the expat community to understand and know what is working, and where there are obstacles.
   steve

   Reply
   • yucalandia says:

     November 12, 2012 at 2:53 pm

     Personally, I would find it difficult to believe that a first time Visitor to Mexico could apply for Residente Permanente at their Mexican Consulate, and go to Mexico for their first time, trot into an INM office, and get Permanent Residency by just showing a passport, proof of a local address, a few ID fotos, and 6 bank statements and a letter from their pension fund documenting the pension… I would hope that one would need to show some evidence that they really do intend to become a Permanent Resident of Mexico, by at least living here…. but … ???

     I suspect INM officials will have the same reaction, and will supplement the income requirement with some previous residency requirement to demonstrate that the Permanent Residency application is credible and has been made in good faith.

     Reply
7. ranchosolymar says:

   November 12, 2012 at 2:26 pm

   My husband Dan would likely be able to pass the exam soon, his Spanish is excellant, but he still needs to hit the books on Mexican history. I will need all of the four years for both requirements to have any prayer of passing. I assume nine of those requirements have changed.

   Reply
   • yucalandia says:

     November 12, 2012 at 2:53 pm

     How old is Dan?
     There is a waiver on the exam for age…

     Reply
8. ranchosolymar says:

   November 12, 2012 at 4:12 pm

   55 years old.

   Reply
   • yucalandia says:

     November 12, 2012 at 4:35 pm

     Nope, not old enough to avoid the exam.

     Have you tracked down the official list of the pool of 100 questions to study?

     The exam is multiple choice, and you only are given a small number of questions by SRE. Back in the day, applicants had to memorize big blocks of Mexican history, and write out answers in decent Spanish – including the full names of key figures: Benito Juarez vs Benito Pablo Juárez García. The old questions also required analysis and critical thinking to write little essays about why things happened.

     In comparison, the current test is pretty straightforward.
     All the best,
     steve

     Reply
     • Barry says:

       November 12, 2012 at 6:15 pm

       Steve – I am 66 do I get an exemption?
     • yucalandia says:

       November 12, 2012 at 6:34 pm

       Barry,
       Yep, most (all?) SRE offices waive the test for geezers over age 60, especially if you speak passable Spanish, and can get through a basic interview with no help from other people.

       …. They mumbled something about “perros viejos” and “no trucos nuevos“, the last time I checked.

       Gringos have a long history of reporting that Regional SRE offices can occasionally seem capricious and possibly arbitrary when accepting or rejecting citizenship applications. I have no idea how much of it is real and how much is due to poor communication. I say this, because after 7 years of hanging out at the INM office for myself and friends, we really can not believe the goofy and gravely mistaken ways that some gringos think they know what INM agents are telling them. These gringos get nervous, mis-ask their questions – asking a different thing than they think they have said, and the dialogues really go down the rabbit hole after that.

       If they do make you take a test, you only have to pass 4 out of 5 straightforward multiple choice questions.

       All the best,
       steve
9. yucalandia says:

   November 12, 2012 at 4:38 pm

   Submitted on 2012/11/12 at 4:19 pm

   Might also want to discuss the info for persons wanting to apply under the condition of “unidad familiar” with family and/or personal connections to Mexicans (or foreigners with temporary or permanent resident status).
   With this the person or persons in Mexico whom you have a family relationship with have to petition the INM directly using one of the new forms on their website. Not sure what happens after that, but it seems that they are committed to reuniting families.
   Also the economic solvency requirements are much less. Either 300 x 62.33 = 18,699p for an average monthly balance for the last six months; or 100 x 62.33 = 6,233 pesitos (or 475 bucks @ 13.1) in a monthly pension or wage each month for six months.

   In my own case I am the father of a Mexican citizen and divorced from a Mexican citizen and am going with this route when I move back to Mexico next spring.

   From Tramite 5: Visa de Residencia Temporal: Requisito IV: section d:
   d. Unidad Familiar: en términos de los artículos 55 y 56 de la Ley y el artículo 113 del Reglamento.

   1. Vínculo con persona extranjera que cuente con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal:

   i. Si el solicitante es cónyuge, concubina o concubinario de persona extranjera con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal, acta de matrimonio o constancia de concubinato o figura equivalente emitida por autoridad competente de conformidad con la legislación aplicable del país del que es originario el solicitante, en original y copia; o

   Si el solicitante tiene hijo extranjero con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal, acta de nacimiento del hijo, en original y copia; o

   Si el solicitante tiene padre o madre extranjero con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal, siempre y cuando sea niña, niño o adolescente y no haya contraído matrimonio o se encuentre en estado de interdicción y esté bajo su representación legal, acta de nacimiento del solicitante, en original y copia; o

   Si el solicitante es hijo del cónyuge; concubinario o concubina o figura equivalente de una persona extranjera con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal, siempre y cuando sea niña, niño o adolescente y no haya contraído matrimonio o se encuentre en estado de interdicción y esté bajo su representación legal:

   – Acta de nacimiento del solicitante, en original y copia, y

   – Acta de matrimonio o constancia de concubinato o figura equivalente emitida por autoridad competente, con la persona extranjera con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal, en original y copia.

   ii. Tarjeta de residente temporal o visa de residente temporal, en original y copia, y

   iii. Acreditar solvencia económica para la manutención del familiar durante su estancia en el país, con:

   – Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a trescientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos seis meses; o

   – Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes mayores al equivalente de cien días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.

   2. Matrimonio o concubinato con persona extranjera que cuente con la condición de residente permanente o titular de una visa de residente permanente:

   i. Acta de matrimonio o constancia de concubinato o figura equivalente emitida por autoridad competente de conformidad con la legislación aplicable del país del que es originario el solicitante, en original y copia;

   ii. Tarjeta de residente permanente o visa de residente permanente, válida y vigente, en original y copia, y

   iii. Acreditar solvencia económica para la manutención del familiar durante su estancia en el país, con:

   – Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a trescientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses, o

   – Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes mayores al equivalente de cien días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.

   3. Matrimonio o concubinato con mexicano:

   i. Acta de matrimonio o constancia de concubinato o figura equivalente emitida por autoridad competente, en original y copia; y

   ii. Documento probatorio de la nacionalidad mexicana, conforme al artículo 3o. de la Ley de Nacionalidad, en original y copia.

   iii. Acreditar solvencia económica para la manutención del familiar durante su estancia en el país, con:

   – Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a trescientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos seis meses, o

   – Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes mayores al equivalente de cien días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.

   Reply
10. ranchosolymar says:

    November 12, 2012 at 7:13 pm

    Perfect! By the time I have 4 years on my new visa I’ll be 60.

    Reply
11. LIC. JACQUES-EDOUARD BEAULNE says:

    November 13, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    Good information but not totally correct:

    There are now, not 4 but 5 immigration documents.
    Visa
    FMM
    Residente temporal
    Residente temporal estudiante
    Residente permanente

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 14, 2012 at 8:09 am

      Estimado Lic. Beaulne,
      Thank you for your kind and accurate corrections.

      When I first read your comments, I agreed, but could not find to which item/paragraph you referred. I just found it, and corrected it.

      To help readers understand the context and weight of Lic. Beulne’s comments, when I moved to Mexico 8 years ago, his website and his thorough analyses of Mexican law and regulations affecting foreigners, was the best on the internet in our opinion. Other sites had lots information on Moving to Mexico, but their information was almost universally either: out-of-date, repeating bad hear-say or corrupted repetitions of things they had “been told by” government employees, significantly incorrect, or were missing key details. Instead, Can-Am-Mexico Law firm – Lic Beaulne – offered detailed, thorough, accurate, and USEFUL information, supported by references that surpassed the typical “I heard that …” content on other sites serving expats.

      As such, I was and am grateful for Lic. Beaulne’s ongoing efforts to help foreigners visit and live in Mexico, as his work helped us, and partly inspired us to create this website, Surviving Yucatan.

      Kudos to Lic. Beaulne for years of jobs done well !

      Thanks,
      Dr. Steven M. Fry

      Reply
12. LIC. JACQUES-EDOUARD BEAULNE says:

    November 13, 2012 at 8:57 pm

    You mix things up when you use the word visa instead of the proper terminology:
    A temporary or permanent residente card is legally known as “Tarjeta de residencia” as per article 3.XXVIII. of the Law. which can be translate as RESIDENCE CARD.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 13, 2012 at 9:24 pm

      Agreed, correct. I thought I tracked down and removed any references to visas, except for the actual visa issued by Mexican Consulates when visitors apply at their consulate permitting them to enter Mexico later to apply for residency at their local INM office inside Mexico.

      I am off to make the VERY GOOD corrections you have offered.
      THANKS !
      steve

      Reply
    • Jennifer Hill says:

      March 7, 2013 at 4:01 pm

      Wow this blog is so helpful. I have a question that I can’t seem to find the answer to. Please point me in the right direction. Lic. Beaulne mentions the 5 immigration documents above.

      What is the difference between a Visa de Residente Temporal (o Permanente) and Residente Temporal o Permanente Card. Does it depend upon your country of origin which one you receive? Or are there other reasons you would have one or the other?

      Thanks so much!
      Jennifer

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        March 7, 2013 at 4:17 pm

        Hi Jennifer,
        For Temporary vs Permanent residency card differences, you can read this section (a part of this article): Advantages and Disadvantages of Residente Permanente vs. Residente Temporal

        Your country of origin is only important if they have no immigration treaty with Mexico. If you are from a country with NO treaty, then you have to apply for an entry visa first.

        If your country has an immigration treaty with Mexico, (like the USA, Canada, et al) then you apply at a Mexican Consulate for either a Residente Permanente or Residente Temporal card, and then if the Mexican Consulate approves you, they give you a special one-time visa to use to enter Mexico (within 6 months of their approval), and you then come to Mexico and continue the application process at your local INM office here, to get your residency card.

        Re Temporary vs Permanent: You may qualify for both, which then gives you the choice of getting a series of up to 4 Residente Temporal cards, or apply for the Residente Permanente once.
        steve
13. Michael La Brooy says:

    November 13, 2012 at 11:40 pm

    About 40% of the way through the article + comments, there are TWO sections headed “Other Categories/Qualifications that Permit a Foreigner to Become a Residente Temporal”
    After reading them both, I think the second is actually about PERMANENT resident applicants, but the two identical headings could deceive or baffle a reader looking for the permanent resident details.
    I got a LOT out of reading this. Thank God there are people like you who can plod through and digest all this stuff to help people like me. (30 yrs ago I spent 6 yrs daily reading miles of legislation — I was an investigator for a provincial ombudsman in Canada — but I just can’t stand it now!)
    Michael (Morelia, Mich.)

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 14, 2012 at 7:19 am

      Good Morning Michael,
      Ahhhh, after 6 years of daily drilling into government legislation and regulations, you would certainly know what an effort this has been for folks like Solomon, Ric, Rolly, and me.

      I’m heading off to fix the error in the header. (Cutting and pasting repeated text, to save some typing, can let some minor bogeys creep in.)
      Thanks!
      steve

      Reply
14. Richelle Halverson says:

    November 14, 2012 at 7:03 am

    Has the Point System for requesting Residente Permanente (currently with an FM3 status) been published yet? I would like to review it if I can find it! Thanks

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 14, 2012 at 7:15 am

      Not yet.

      Reply
      • Richelle Halverson says:

        November 14, 2012 at 8:42 am

        Thanks… still waiting then!
      • Rebecca says:

        January 27, 2013 at 5:46 pm

        I was wondering this as well, and hope it’ll be published soon! I’ve been with my Mexican husband for almost a decade (common-law for most of that time) and we have a 7-year old daughter. Unfortunately, I’ve only been living/working in Mexico for 7 months (on an FM3) so I still have quite a while before I’m eligible for permanent residency except by potentially going through this point system.
      • yucalandia says:

        January 27, 2013 at 10:07 pm

        Cool.
        Is your daughter registered officially as a Mexicana? If so, then you qualify for Residente Permanente as the immediate relative of a Mexican, without having to complete 2 years or 4 years of Temporary Residency.
        steve
      • rebyanna says:

        January 27, 2013 at 5:58 pm

        Looking forward to getting this information! I’ve been living and working here for 7 months (FM3) with my Mexican husband and our daughter. I’d LOVE to apply for permanent residency but know I have quite a while to wait unless I can get approved through this point system. Thanks for all the great information you provide here! 🙂
      • yucalandia says:

        January 27, 2013 at 10:05 pm

        If your marriage to a Mexican was approved by a Registro Civil, then you are eligible to become a Residente Permanente after completing just 2 prior (unbroken) years of Mexican residency, on either an FM2, FM3, or Residente Temporal. This could mean that you are almost half-way there right now.
        steve
      • rebyanna says:

        January 27, 2013 at 10:33 pm

        Ah thanks 🙂 Sorry for the double-post, thought my first one didn’t go through since it disappeared after I clicked to comment! And yes, our daughter has a Mexican birth certificate and passport. She’s only 7 years old though…I thought she had to be an adult to qualify me for residency?
      • yucalandia says:

        January 28, 2013 at 7:03 am

        Hi Rebyanna,
        I’m glad that the news is good for you. The 2011 INM law clearly specifies the importance of keeping families together, so, yes, the 2011 law clearly qualifies you for Residente Permanente as the mother of a daughter who is officially recognized as a Mexicana.

        Ironically, a local law firm gave an “Immigration Law Presentation” at our local men’s club breakfast 2 weeks ago to teach us about “the changes”. Their “immigration expert” lawyer was telling people that family members had to wait 2 years (like the rule for spouses) before applying for Residente Permanente. As I had already corrected the lawyer on 2 previous significant errors, I remained quiet. A grandfather stood up to say that he had just been at our INM office last week, and the INM agents told him: “Sir, as the grandfather of a Mexican child, you qualify right now for Residente Permanente, with no prior years on an FM2 or FM3.”

        Even though the law has been out for over 19 months, many lawyers are still unaware of the basic requirements of the law. Lawyers can give advice on many things where they have no training, no certifications, and have not passed any tests. As Mexico changes their Labor and Immigration laws and regulations, it takes substantial efforts to read, learn, and interpret the legal changes, and it takes even more effort to track how local INM offices across Mexico are implementing the changes. This makes reader reports/comments to Yucalandia very important in updating what is actually happening “on the ground” versus the oft-faulty advice of “immigration” lawyers and immigration “facilitators”.

        Just like auto mechanics and Mexican “electricians”, there are
        ~ a few good ones, ~ a bunch of mediocre ones, and
        ~ more than a few incompetents ~ .

        Thanks to everyone for their ongoing comments,
        steve
      • rebyanna says:

        January 28, 2013 at 8:27 pm

        So I talked to someone else at the INM office and got another answer (surprise!)…turns out that you were correct. There is no waiting period “por tener hijos de nacionalidad mexicana por nacimiento”…having children of Mexican nationality through birth. However, because my daughter wasn’t born *IN* Mexico there’s no way to apply through her at ALL. Of course, a bit further down it then says, “Artículo 56. Los mexicanos tendrán el derecho a la preservación de la unidad familiar por lo que podrán ingresar con o solicitar posteriormente el ingreso de las siguientes personas extranjeras: I. Padre o madre;” Of course, they’ll probably say “mexicanos” implies adults, not children, but it won’t hurt to ask. Looking forward to this point system coming out! We should’ve just gotten married earlier when residency was immediate, since this would be a non-issue…20/20 hindsight. Thanks again for your help and for providing this blog! 🙂
      • yucalandia says:

        January 28, 2013 at 10:26 pm

        Dandy update.

        I really enjoy hearing that some INM offices are following the rules, and I feel a bit disappointed when some INM agents give out bad information, or choose their own opinion over the law.
        All the best,
        steve
      • rebyanna says:

        January 28, 2013 at 1:30 pm

        I’m sorry to report that my experience “on the ground” is not the same as that grandfather’s. Went to the local INM office this morning (Santa Cruz in Huatulco, Oaxaca) and they said I have to wait 2 years before being eligible through my daughter, same as if I was applying via my spouse. I’m wondering where they ARE giving permanent residency to parents of Mexican children…or where I can find the relevant information online to bring to the INM office? My FM3 is valid until July and I’d much rather become a permanent resident if I’m eligible instead of paying for a temporal. We’re moving to Mérida in August, so hopefully I’ll get it there if they continue to insist I can’t here.
      • yucalandia says:

        January 28, 2013 at 7:13 pm

        I am also sorry to hear your report.

        Individual INM offices have wide latitude and discretion in how they apply the rules. Unfortunately, your Santa Cruz office is taking a more stringent line than our Merida Office. Since your FM3 expires in July, you would need to apply before the expiration date. Unfortunately, the recent immigration polices between INM offices have not been consistent, and some policies are changing within offices even over the past 3 weeks.

        Fortunately, a 2 year route to Permanent Residency is shorter than the 4 year route you were previously told was necessary. There is still also a chance that when INM announces the particular details of the “Points System”, you may still qualify for Permanent Residency this year under the new upcoming “Points System”? or not ?
        steve

15. Pingback: INM DF Central Hotline Gives Consistent Answers on FM3/FM2 to Permanent Resident Questions | Surviving Yucatan

16. John Garvin says:

    November 15, 2012 at 7:04 am

    The costs for Permanent Resident is 1000 pesos to process and a 3815 peso fee. Final approval will take two weeks.

    Reply
17. Tony says:

    November 15, 2012 at 10:06 am

    Are we actually required to go back to the states and to a consulate, or can we get the documents from calling / emailing them.
    We are right in the middle of getting our temp or perm residency… Dang

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 15, 2012 at 5:44 pm

      Hi Tony,
      If you already started the residency application process with INM, then no, you do not have to go back to the USA.

      You mention something I do not understand: ” can we get the documents from calling / emailing them.”
      If you are already in Mexico, and have already officially started a residency application with INM, then there are no documents to get from the Mexican Government – so the question does not fit what you wrote…??

      Also, INM does not give foreigners any documents for the application process to people inside Mexico. You give them documents.
      steve

      Reply
18. John Garvin says:

    November 15, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    From the Hotline: You can only start the Permanent Resident application 30 days ptiro to your current visa expiration date. And, bank statements may comply with proving income but each Immigration office can seek a higher standard.

    Reply
19. Lisa Davis says:

    November 15, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    if the temporary resident is only valid up to 4 years – at the end can you reapply for another temporary resident permit or at that point must you apply for Permanent resident?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 15, 2012 at 6:03 pm

      Lisa,
      Yes, you can continue to apply for fresh Residente Temporal permits/cards, every 5th year.
      steve

      Reply
20. trishinmexico says:

    November 16, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    My first try at posting a question here… I hope I do it correctly. I am going for my 4th refrendo in March 2013 , so I believe I can apply for permanent resident. I own a home worth way in excess of the required peso value, but I bought it as land only, so the escritura shows very little value. On completion of building the house, the predial/city value was placed at 2,000,000 pesos. Does anyone know what document is required from the Notario, is it something other than the escritura?
    Would asking the city to increase the value for the predial ( above 2,500,000 pesos) help serve as proof of the house value? Thanks for any info. ….Trish.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 18, 2012 at 9:04 am

      Hi Trish,
      My apologies for not seeing and approving your very good questions earlier. We have our first grand-baby in town now, and we have been swept up in a flurry of family events with all our Yucatecan relatives wanting to see the new baby. Welcome Marco!

      Anyway, you ask good questions.
      Many many INM offices around Mexico are allowing foreigners with 4 years completed on their current Inmigrante/FM2 permits to qualify for Residente Permanente. A FEW INM offices are NOT allowing this interpretation. You must check with your local INM office to find out how they are handling this issue.

      Please note that owning real estate in Mexico does not qualify one for Residente Permanente – so, I think your other questions do not apply.

      In any case, people wanting to use the Real Estate Ownership rule to apply for Residente Temporal, are being told to bring in their official Catastral document showing the Government’s valuation of the property. The Lineamientos say that you need supply the original and a copy of your “escritura pública ” aka “deed” to the property. Our readings of the new rules say only certain types of applicants for Residente Temporal permits qualify to use the owning real estate route.

      Can one make a case with sufficient facturas and an official letter from a Notary and “before and after” fotos to prove sufficient increased value to meet the current $2,493,200 pesos valuation of real estate requirement? We are waiting to hear if our readers have successfully made this case with INM, or if it might take an attorney.

      Sorry I did not answer your very good questions sooner – Bad Dog, no biscuit …
      steve

      Reply
21. Maggie says:

    November 17, 2012 at 12:23 am

    Thank you Steve for all of this fantastic info….
    My question relates to existing FM2 holders with expiry very close. We (my husband & I) have adopted a Mexican child & are living in Mexico for one year.
    Our FM2’s are due to expire at end of November & we are unsure if the new law will require us to travel to our home Embassy to renew & if being the parents of our adopted Mexican child will allow us to qualify for the extension of what was the FM2.
    We understand from your very valuable information that we would fall under the new category of “Residente Temporal“ as we have “Inmigrante FM2 Rentistas” (and also, quoting your details,Have a familiar bond with another Permanent Mexican citizen – our daughter), or do you believe we could apply for ”Residente Permanente“?
    Any assistance would be appreciated with regard to the need to travel to home embassy to renew & also which category we would fall under as we need to get moving on a new application but were unable to do so until the new law was introduced & are now close to expiry of our existing FM2’s.
    Thanks again
    Maggie

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 17, 2012 at 10:47 am

      Maggie,
      As long as you have FM2’s, you do NOT have to return to a Consulate in your home country.

      Only visitors here on visitor permits are required to leave Mexico, go home, and file for a different immigration status at their home country’s Mexican Consulate.

      Without knowing your situation, we cannot say whether you qualify for Permanent Residency.
      You can qualify with ANY of the following, if you either:
      ~ have enough monthly income/pension deposits, or
      ~ own enough real estate, or
      ~ own a significant stake in a Mexican business, or employ 5 Mexicans, or
      ~ have enough money in a bank or investment account for the past year,

      then you can qualify for Residente Pemanente .

      Read the sections of the article above about the Requirements for Permanent Residency for lists of the specific details and $$$ needed.
      Happy Trails,
      steve

      Reply
      • Anita Farrar says:

        November 30, 2012 at 5:10 pm

        I live in Kelowna, B.C., Canada and was told my someone at the Mexican Embassy in Vancouver that I must go to Vancouver for a personal interview with the consulate in order to start my Residente Temporal from here. That, at this point (I am leaving Canada for Mexico in less than 2 weeks) impossible. Can it be true that all B.C. residents that wish to apply for RT must go in person to the Mexcian Embassy in Vancouver?
      • yucalandia says:

        December 1, 2012 at 6:45 am

        Anita,
        That is correct: All foreigners wanting to go to Mexico to get a Residency permit must go apply at a Mexican Consulate in a country where they have legal residency. We reported this new requirement in May 2011 when the law was approved. This requirement has been known for 18 months, but the implementation was simply delayed until the Mex. Gob. issued the Reglamento in Sept 2012 and Lineamientos on Nov. 8.

        I mention the history of this issue, to help you choose what sites on Mexico carry current news important to Canadians, Americans, Brits, and European interested in how things actually work in Mexico. Many “advice” sites on Mexico only report after-the-fact about the polices that are in the pipeline. If you know the upcoming changes, then you can shift your plans to best fit your needs.

        This is why we have been the first on the web to publish the immigration rule changes in 2010, and again in 2011, and again in 2012, along with the most up-to-date information on the changes in rules governing importing cars in 2011, and other issues important to foreigners.

        For us: Forewarned is forearmed… which is why we do our best to report the latest news affecting immigration, cars, importation, and labor law – based on tracking the policies at both the national and regional levels of Mexico — heavily supported by updates from our very talented readers’ and contributors’ comments.

        If you choose to not go to a Mexican Consulate, you can simply fly here, and enter Mexico on a 180 day Visitor’s permit, and then leave Mexico after 180 days.
        steve
22. Lisa Friesen says:

    November 17, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    My husband and I have FM3 Lucrativas, which we received in 2009. We live full time in Mexico and at this time do not have any employees. Where will we fit in…or do we?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 18, 2012 at 8:36 am

      Hi Lisa,
      You fit into the Residente Temporal permit category. One bonus of this new category is that you can pay for up to 4 years of this status, and NOT have to do the annual renewal dance any more… *YAY* !
      steve

      Reply
23. Kaye says:

    November 18, 2012 at 9:27 am

    I had to let my previous FM3 expire because I was unable to return to Mexico within the required time frame and did a completely new application and received a new (what is now called Residente Temporal) on Oct 11, 2012 good for only one year. Since the new law is now in effect and offers the option of paying for 4 years at one time, is there any option to go back into the office and pay for the additional 3 years to extend it to the full payment of the newly offered 4 year one time payment? In other words, could I take mine in and request to add the additional years to it? Or, do I just have to return next year and qualify again to extend. Previously, they never asked for income verification for renewals.

    Also, when you mention owning property as an optional condition, does that waive the income requirement.? What is that value based on? The value on the fideicomiso or a current evaluation based on assessments since many properties have been renovated and values change. If it is assessments, I am good. However, my notario/abogado/realtor all did me a great injustice by recording my value lower on the fideicomiso when I first bought my property…expecting they would do everything correctly, but not understanding that they were doing it “the way it’s always been done”. I would gladly have paid the additional amount to record the actual sales price and told them I wanted everything done “correctly”. Needless to say, I didn’t understand the implications of that and now and I am somewhat dismayed that they took it upon themselves to “save me some money” which will now come back to bite me should I sell. That being what it is, returning to my original question, how is the property valued?

    Thank you for any info.

    Kaye

    Reply
    • Kaye says:

      November 18, 2012 at 9:34 am

      One other note. Had I known that they were removing the time outside the country limitation, I would have applied for the Residente Permanente this last time. Always a day late and a dollar short.

      Reply
      • Kaye says:

        November 18, 2012 at 9:43 am

        Well, it appears you were answering the second half of my question as I composed it. ha ha. The home ownership valuation and requirement as the sole qualification. It seems to me, using the fideicomiso is not a very good option when so many properties have been improved far beyond the stated value when first purchased. 😦
      • yucalandia says:

        November 18, 2012 at 1:11 pm

        True, but with the low value listed on the Government’s records, you pay less in annual property taxes, but get zinged for 28% taxes on the difference between your original deed’s price and the new selling price.

        Did your Notario at least have you pay the optional 2% Acquisition Fee (tax) when you bought the property?

        If you paid the 2% Acquisition fee with the purchase, then the 2% fee is deductible when you sell, and you can depreciate the property 3%(?) per year as a tax deduction at the sale time, and if you get and keep facturas for all your improvements, then those remodeling costs are also deductible from those Capital Gains taxes when you sell. If you keep the property for 10 years before selling, you get a 30% deduction, and if you did another $1,000,000 pesos in improvements (documented by facturas), then you could deduct both amounts – taking a lot of sting out of the taxes at sale time.

        All of this stuff was described in our article from 2 years ago when the Mex. Gob. significantly changed the rules for Gains Taxes on Sales of Properties: https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/capital-gains-taxes-on-mexican-properties/

        If you read this article on Capital Gains, you will find that you could qualify for a Homeowners Waiver of all capital gains on the sale of the property, BUT your Notario must agree to sign-off, certifying and approving in writing that your home has been your primary physical residence and financial home (the city you make your income in) for the 5 years before the sale. Since your Notario screwed the pooch on handling the sale documents and $$ amounts, maybe you could get him to agree to give you the Homeowner’s Waiver of taxes on the sale as a resident homeowner???

        Remember that all of our advice is for educational and entertainment purposes only,
        because I am just a schmuck chemist who enjoys slogging through 100-s of pages of Government-speak legalese, in Spanish, to pull out the details and gems that seem interesting or possibly useful.
        You should talk with a talented real attorney or talented Notario to get actual legal or tax advice.
        steve
      • yucalandia says:

        November 18, 2012 at 1:23 pm

        Kaye,
        You did fine…

        NOBODY knew what the actual requirements would be for being allowed out of the country, until INM finally released the 250 page Lineamientos on November 8, 2012. Unless you were psychic, there was NO WAY to know these things when you applied in October, so you really did things OK.
        steve
    • yucalandia says:

      November 18, 2012 at 1:01 pm

      Kaye,
      Could you look carefully at the Immigration card you got in October?

      There were not supposed to be any Residente Temporal cards issued before the Nov. 8 start date. It is really unlikely that you have a Residente Temporal card. You most likely have a No Inmigrante card.

      This means that you will not be able to change over to a Residente Temporal until next October. If it is really urgent/important that you get a Residente Temporal card with a 4 year expiration date NOW, then you will need to abandon your current No Inmigrante status, surrender your current No Inmigrante card, and apply for a new Residente Temporal card by paying for 4 more years. Taking this approach does however cost you one year’s INM fees, because INM will not refund the fee you paid in Oct.

      If you meet the ownership of sufficient property qualifier, then you would not need to meet any income requirement. As written in our article above, you provide a copy of your deed to the property to confirm the value. Some INM offices are asking for a copy of your most recent Catastral document (the one you use to pay your property taxes/Predial).

      Your Notario did the previous owner of the property a big favor. By recording a falsely-low price on the deed, the previous owner owed less taxes on their profits ~ but this shifted the tax burden to you, when you sell the property in the future. Since the INM Lineamientos specifically list the required document as the “escritura publica“, the deed, then you may be stuck.

      Caveat Emptor We really do need to read documents before we sighn, whether we are in Canada, England, the USA, or Mexico. You could consult with a lawyer and see if there is anything that can be done.

      As my Polish grandpa used to say: Education costs money, and many times we do not even go to school for the new lessons.
      steve

      Reply
24. ranchosolymar says:

    November 18, 2012 at 10:43 am

    FM3 never had a limit on time outside of the country, so you can check that “woulda,coulda,shoulda” off your list.

    Reply
25. John Garvin says:

    November 19, 2012 at 4:32 pm

    Explaining Mexico’s new immigration laws. Much of it aimed at refugees.

    Click to access 12460.pdf

    Reply
26. John Garvin says:

    November 19, 2012 at 6:31 pm

    If a person has say 4 years on a FM-3 and 3 years on a FM-2 when they go for their next application for Temporary Resident permit (and do not want Permanent Resident) do they have to start over meaning do they have to prove income or is it considered a renewal based on the total of 7 years?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 19, 2012 at 8:21 pm

      John,
      This is one of those areas where the individual INM offices have each been handling things differently. Our local Merida INM office has been granting Residente Temporal to current FM3 and FM2 holders with no requirements to prove income nor bank statements. Other INM offices are requiring 6 months of bank statements to prove sufficient monthly income. The Manzanas INM office initially only required 3 months of statements, and then a jefe ordered them to change to 6 months (fitting the new rules), forcing the people who applied on Nov 9 – 14 to return with a full 6 months of statements.

      So, the answer to your very good question is that it will likely take several months for INM offices to settle into consistent procedures on items like this. In the meantime, check with your local INM office to find out their current requirements.
      steve

      Reply
27. John Garvin says:

    November 20, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    From a trip to San Miguel Immigration today:
    You can return with an expired FM visa up to 60 days late. You must have your passport stamped when you re-enter Mexico indicating you were out of the country. This is a must. Do not compete what we call a FMM or Visitor Visa. Explain the situation. there is no fine if within 60 days at time of renewal.

    Reply
28. John Garvin says:

    November 20, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    EXCELLENT Immigration news:

    From a meeting at immigration in San Miguel this morning:

    1. If you qualify for a Permanent Resident Visa based on income of ~$2500 / month you can do so at any time. You must again prove income with bank statements and supporting document/s showing source of income such as letters from US SS, Canadian CPP / OAS, employer pension, etc

    2. if you have 4 years on a FM-3 OR 4 years on a FM-2 you can apply for Permanent Resident at the end of the 4 years. You do NOT have to prove income. But it must be 4 years on one of these visas. it can not be 2 years on a FM-3 and 2 years on a FM-2. In this situation you only prove income once and not now.

    3. Proving income is done with both a bank statement for 6 months and supporting documents such as those named above.

    Reply
    • Linda Leonard says:

      November 24, 2012 at 7:43 am

      We went to the migration office here in Zihua yesterday to see what we need to do when we should renew our FM3’s at the beginning of January. We have had our FM3’s for 4 years, so we were told we would be given Permanent Resident status. However, we were also told we need to provide 6 months of bank statements. We weren’t told that they need to show anything in particular. Let’s see what happen on Jan. 3.

      Reply
      • Linda Leonard says:

        December 19, 2012 at 8:18 pm

        We have heard so many different stories, we decided to go back to migracion and check once more what we need to take with us in January. Different story- surprised?? Now they say we will be given temporal residency for 1 year, then we can apply for permanent resident. We were told 3 months of bank statements, but have not been told what those statements need to show. If this comes to be in January, will we need to show proof of income next year for our permanent residency?
29. ranchosolymar says:

    November 20, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Hope PV accepts the same.

    Reply
30. trishinmexico says:

    November 20, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Wow.. If what Jonn Garvin says holds true until March 2013, I’ll be the happiest preson in San Miguel!!!
    I’ve been chasing permanent status/citizenship for 13 years… This year march will be my 4th renewal on my Inmigrante (old FM2)…. So I hope this gets me in the door! I don’t quite qualify on any of the requirements.
    Great hopes… Thanks Jonh…

    Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      November 20, 2012 at 1:59 pm

      Hi Trish Sonia sent the same to you in an email. Best wishes.

      Reply

31. Pingback: INM Regional Office Requirements for Getting Mexican Residency and Immigration Rules | Surviving Yucatan

32. John Garvin says:

    November 22, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Near the top of this page you state:”Later, after they approve all your documents, they will have you return for fingerprinting, and they give you another form to take to the bank and pay $3,185 pesos for one year”. That should be 3815 pesos

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 22, 2012 at 2:24 pm

      Got it. I mistakenly inter-mixed the Temporal and Permanente clauses, creating some really clumsy text.
      THANKS!

      Reply
33. Lisa says:

    November 22, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    So I have someone working in Mexico and on FM3 – however we have noticed that the classification is “rentista” which does not allow him to work. All paperwork submited to our consular office in Candad showed the work he would be performing. All other FM3 provided with the correct classification it just appears the office here in Calgary made an error with this one. We are trying to get the local INM office to change the classification to Cargo Confianza and they agreed…..until today …when they are now asking for the following – any suggestions you can provide on how to expedite this change in the simplest manner possible. Can we bring him back to canada – cancel his current paperwork and have them reissue ?:

    1) Formato para empleadores, llenando de manera electrónica a través de la pagina de internet (www.inm.gob.mx), con firma autógrafa del promovente.

    2) A) Acta constitutiva o el instrumento público en el que se acredite la legal existencia de la persona moral, asi como sus modificaciones;

    B) Instrumento publico en el que conste el tipo de poder mandato y las facultades conferidas a los representantes legales o a los apoderados si el acta constitutiva no los contiene;

    C) Identificación oficial vigente del representante o apoderado legal; (IFE)

    D) Comprobante de domicilio de la persona moral, cuya fecha de expedición no exceda de treinta días;

    E) Constancia de incripcion en el Registro Federal de Contribuyentes (RFC) y constancia emitida por autoridad competente, sobre la presentación de la ultima declaración de impuestos, y

    F) Lista de empleados y su nacionalidad.

    Google translated version:

    1) Format for employers, filling out electronically via the website (www.inm.gob.mx), with the signature of the petitioner.

    2) A) Act constitutive or public instrument which certifies the legal existence of the corporation, and any amendments thereto; –

    B) A public document attesting to the type of mandate and powers conferred on the legal representatives or guardians if the charter does not contain them; .

    C) Identification of current official legal representative or agent (IFE); –

    D) Proof of address of the firm, whose date of issuance not exceeding thirty days; –
    ) Proof of inscription in the Federal Taxpayers Registry (RFC) and certification issued by competent authority on the submission of the last tax return, and –
    F) List of employees and their nationality. – They said that they would like a list of all our employees in Mexico and their nationalities.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 23, 2012 at 6:25 am

      Hi Lisa,
      Yes. Have they issued him a NUT? If so, on what date did they issue the NUT? Having a NUT signifies that they have officially started the application process. If he really does have an official application started with them, then you need to draft a letter in Spanish to abandon his current application.

      Your letter should have a format like the letters listed at the bottom of our old FMM, FM2, or FM3 article (https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/moving-to-mexico-fmm-fm2-or-fm3/) stating his name, his country and passport number, the NUT of his application, the NUE of any old INM ID, the old INM ID number (if he has one), and then state your purpose: Sr. _____ is abandoning his current application for the INM permit ______ (permit type). And BE SURE to add the little paragraph at the end, word-for-word, that certifies that he is being completely truthful- as many INM offices require a statement certifying veracity.

      Once they accept his abandoning the prior application, You can then immediately start another one under the new rules, under a type of Tarjeta de Residencia that better fits his needs. Can he qualify for a Residente Permanente Tarjeta de Residencia ? That category allows the holder to work, unrestricted – simply getting his RFC from Hacienda in Mexico.
      All the best,
      steve

      Reply
34. Lisa says:

    November 23, 2012 at 7:09 am

    it is already complete – we did not notice as all the others were given differently. Is there any way to change it now and void the current? How do we effectively move them from the Old system of FM3 to the Residente Temporal ?

    Reply
35. John Garvin says:

    November 23, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    FYI the Hotline, as of today, is quite adamant that time on previous FM-3/2 does not count towards Permanent Resident. Only the time on your current visa.

    Reply
36. John Garvin says:

    November 23, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    From the Gualajara Reporter:
    Immigration chief opens up on confusing new rules
    Friday, November 23 2012 11:26 Dale Hoyt Palfrey

    The full implementation of Mexico’s Ley de Migracion (immigration law) has caused quite a stir among many of the foreign nationals to whom it pertains. While some are downright furious about modified requirements, the majority seem to be quite befuddled over the personal implications. A precious few are just taking it all in stride and waiting for the dust to settle.

    As promised, Chapala’s National Immigration Institute (INM) office chief Juan Carlos Galvan sat down late last week for a Reporter interview to help clarify key points of confusion.

    “It’s understandable that many people are very disconcerted,” he said for openers. “At the end of the day, it’s basically all about modernizing the law and improving procedures to put Mexico on a par with international immigration standards.”

    Getting down to brass tacks, Galvan honed in on several recommendations that probably won’t do much to soothe those who are most agitated and addled.

    “I want to underscore that every foreigner should read the law and its regulations. It’s an obligation to have knowledge of the content—not interpret it, but be familiar with what it says.”

    (For reference, pertinent website sources are listed below.)

    Additional advice: At this early stage don’t bother asking about what the changes mean for people who have foreign-plated vehicles admitted under temporary import permits. New guidelines from Aduana (Customs) have not yet been defined. Standing rules apply until that happens and no dire consequences should emerge due to the void.

    The same goes for the point system mentioned in the new law as a pathway to permanent residency. It will remain irrelevant until fully spelled out in procedural guidelines.

    Galvan’s final recommendation is to erase obsolete terminology from your vocabulary. This particularly refers to familiar terms for different kinds of Mexican immigration documents.

    He points out that all INM papers issued prior to November 9 that remain valid according to the given expiration are automatically categorized according to the Condiciones de Estancia (conditions of stay) laid out under the new system. It’s a done deal, so there’s no need to consult or deal with INM.

    Comparing new permit labels (in bold face) versus the previous ones, the conversion works out as follows:

    – Residente Temporal (temporary resident): now equivalent to former status Inmigrante, No Inmigrante Visitante, Ministro de Culto and Corresponsal for a stay of one year.

    – Residente Temporal Estudiante (temporary student resident): equivalent to No Inmigrante Estudiante.

    – Residente Permanente (permanent resident): equivalent to Inmigrado and No Inmigrante Refugiado or Asilado.

    – Visitante sin permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas (visitor without permission to engage in paid activities: equivalent to No Inmigrante Turista, Transmigrante, Persona de Negocios, Visitante Distinguido and FMM documents valid for up to 180 days.

    – Visitante con permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas (visitor with permission to engage in paid activities): equivalent to Visitante con actividad lucrativa with FMM documents valid for up to 180 days.

    (Particular nuances for each condition will be covered in a follow-up story in next week’s Reporter.)

    Income requirements

    At this point, the stickiest issue for most expats concerns steep hikes in income requirements that have come into effect for persons wishing to qualify for temporary or permanent residency as retirees or pensioners.

    The rates are based on current minimum wage (SM) figures: average monthly income of 400 times SM (around $1,900 USD) for temporary status and 500 times SM (around $2,400 USD) for permanent status. (Today’s SM is set at 62.33 pesos)

    Alternately, proof of sufficient personal investments calculated over the previous year is acceptable. Doing the math, at the moment it works out to an average worth of around $96,000 USD for temporary status and $120,000 USD for permanent status.

    “There’s logic to this,” Galvan explains. “People who want to live here under either condition need to have the means to do so.”

    The good news is that ownership of real property may be factored into investment holdings. Also, individuals who were square with INM before November 9 as temporary residents won’t have to meet higher income brackets until the four year period they qualified for runs out. Permanent residents are totally off the hook.

    On the down side, he says new guidelines do not specify considerations to lower the bar for spouses or other immediate family members. That aspect might be contemplated as policies evolve.

    For the time being, local attorneys specializing in immigration matters appear to be reserving judgment on how business with INM will eventually pan out. New questions arising day to day will be answered as decisions on individual cases are resolved. Stay tuned.

    INM information on line

    Migration Law, full text:

    http://www.diputados.gob.mx/LeyesBiblio/pdf/LMigra.pdf

    Migration Law Regulations, full text: http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5270615&fecha=28/09/2012

    Condensed overview: http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/marco_juridico/pdf/Ley_de_Migracion_y_Reglamento.pdf

    Procedural guidelines, full text: http://www.dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5276967&fecha=08/11/2012

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 23, 2012 at 6:32 pm

      Good Stuff !

      All of the items sure seem to fit with the current descriptions we have in the article above.
      I’m off to read the pdf of the summaries.
      THANKS !
      steve

      Reply
37. John Garvin says:

    November 24, 2012 at 6:36 am

    Having property in Mexico worth at least $196,000.00 US gets you to Temporary or Permanent Resident?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 24, 2012 at 6:55 am

      Temporary Residency. For now, because we don’t know the rules for the Points System.

      Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 26, 2012 at 10:29 pm

      Having property in Mexico worth at least $196,000.00 US (at 13:1) gets you to Residente Temporal.

      Reply
38. John Garvin says:

    November 24, 2012 at 6:38 am

    Having proof of investments or savings with an average worth over the previous year equivalent to $96,000.00 US gets one to a Temporary Resident?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 24, 2012 at 6:55 am

      Correct: Works for Residente Temporal.

      Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 26, 2012 at 10:26 pm

      Yes.

      Reply
39. John Garvin says:

    November 24, 2012 at 6:39 am

    Having proof of investments or savings with an average worth over the previous year equivalent to $120,000.00 US gets one to a Permanent Resident?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 24, 2012 at 7:23 am

      John,
      You are a gem.

      … and exactly right about my typo (of cutting and pasting “Permanente” mistakenly in 2 spots of the Residente TEMPORAL section of proving fiscal independence… THANKS !

      I have fixed the Residente Temporal required assets section to delete in incorrect references to “Permanente”- so

      Yes, Residente Temporal offers the opportunity to use sufficient Mexican Real Estate, or sufficient monthly income, or sufficient annual average account balances to prove financial independence.

      …. Edited after-the-fact to remove a mistaken comment I made….
      Best to root out the weeds, and not have readers even temporarily adopt my errors…
      
      THANKS,
      steve

      Reply
      • John Garvin says:

        November 24, 2012 at 8:38 am

        Steve I ask also because Rolly and the head of Immigration in Jalisco / Chapalastate 25,000 x Mexico City daily minimum wage averaged of 12 months gets you to Permanent Resident
      • John Garvin says:

        November 24, 2012 at 4:39 pm

        Steve you have the same amount under Temporary Resident as Permanent resident:

        Residente Permanente Income or Deposits or Bank Balance Requirements:
        (Lineamientos Article 44)
        ~ Documentation of Proof of Financial Independence by Average Bank Balance: Provide the 12 months of original bank statements (plus copies) as proof of income or savings/investments, to show equivalent to twenty thousand days of the general minimum wage in the District Federal for the previous twelve months…
        … Average Monthly Balance of about $95,892 USD ($1,246,600 pesos) at $13:1 MXN:USD for Residente Permanente.
      • yucalandia says:

        November 25, 2012 at 9:04 am

        We have Temporary Resident Monthly Deposits listed at $1,918 USD ($24,932 pesos)
        We have Permanent Resident Monthly Deposits listed at $2,397 USD ($31,165 pesos)

        We have Temporary Resident Average Annual Balance listed at $95,892 USD ($1,246,600 pesos)
        We NOW have Permanent Resident Average Annual Balance listed at $119,865 USD ($1,558,250 pesos).

        My math was fine. I stubbed my toe when reading the regs, and accidently read 20 Thousand days for both categories.

        For those who like original source material for John’s very good insight:
        Changing from Visitante to Residente Temporal (Lineamientos Article 41)
        Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos doce meses;

        Changing from Residente Temporal to Residente Permanente (Lineamientos Article 44)
        Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinticinco mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos doce meses,

        Thanks for hanging in there and providing really good advice and help,
        steve
40. John Garvin says:

    November 26, 2012 at 7:41 am

    Something to consider … If you are selling or intend to sell a property I suggest you talk to a Notario. Some Notario’s are reporting if you want to avoid capital gains in Mexico the seller must now be a Permanent Resident. This can have major financial implications.

    What also happened is some buyers (now sellers) recorded a low purchase price to pay less property taxes. This may make capital gains tax burden even greater.

    If you are selling or contemplating selling being a Permanent Resident may be beneficial. This is the area of expertise of a notario and I advise you contact one.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 26, 2012 at 11:02 am

      Amen, John !

      This is exactly why we wrote the article on Capital Gains taxes on Properties in Mexico: https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/capital-gains-taxes-on-mexican-properties/

      and Income Tax Liabilities in Mexico: https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/income-tax-liabilities-in-mexico/

      Good, good advice, because if you Notario will not approve and certify your status as a Resident Homeowner, you can owe up to 28% of the difference between the value listed on your deed (often an artificially low amount entered to save the previous owner tax $$) vs your current selling price… An no, unless you kept facturas for every repair or update, you cannot deduct the remodeling costs.
      steve

      Reply
41. John Garvin says:

    November 26, 2012 at 11:14 am

    We just came from immigration in SMA. They will now consider total time on visas in applying for Permanent Resident. You can not have a break between visas and no fines nor going beyond an expiration date. We are told this is a national change.

    Mexico City will review the request.

    So, if say 3 years on a FM-3 and then 1 on a FM-2 meeting the conditions I noted with no penalties etc, you can apply for Permanent Resident and no need to prove income.

    Sonia Diaz

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 26, 2012 at 12:03 pm

      Sweet…. Really good update !

      Reply
      • John Garvin says:

        November 26, 2012 at 12:30 pm

        Of course helps to have my Mexican wife Sonia who is also a facilitator.
42. John Garvin says:

    November 26, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    The Permanent Resident process is two steps. The first takes 2 weeks, you pay 1000 pesos and requires photos and application forms.

    According to Immigration mine is the first to be approved locally. Staff are very helpful and learning.

    The approval as noted is 2 weeks. Once approved, another form is required, payment of 3815 pesos, 2 more photos and finger prints.

    An additional 2 weeks is required to receive your Permanent Resident visa.

    So allow up to 5 weeks plus any holiday time.

    Reply
43. readingterminal says:

    November 26, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    Hmm… no fines huh, to maintain continuity. So I am on my 3rd refrendo now, but I had to pay a fine prior to get the 2ndo refrendo of the then FM2 as I misunderstood the requirement to be to renew within 30 days after the expiration, rather than the actual requirement to start renewal up to 30 days prior to expiration.
    Ok, so I paid the fine, then got what is stated to be the 2nd refrendo, by the Nov. 26 update language I guess that means I have just 2 continous years under my belt when I get near my current expiration date, right? Well, I am not sure about that. Somehow I do not believe that type of fine for that infraction makes my immigration status discontinuous, or it would not be the second renewal. So my question, fines for what infraction make the periods of immigration status discontinuous, not counting towards the 4 years to apply for permanent resident?
    Oh well, the devil is indeed in the details.

    Reply
44. John Garvin says:

    November 26, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    Every Immigration office has some latitude so I am just quoting what was told this morning here in SMA. Ask at your local office as this practice is a revision based on what I was told. Compared to a Mexican trying to even travel to the US let alone live there such as my wife this is amazing and cheap.

    Reply
45. Barry says:

    November 26, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    Just to update you with the current procedure as we experienced it today in Puerto Vallarta:
    – If renewal no financial documents required you can apply 30 days before and seems that a change now is that it seems you can apply up to 55 days after expiry with no penalty.
    – If like us you had a 1 year FM3 last year you can use that 1 year towards the 4 year permanent resident category. It does not matter how many FM3’s that you had prior.
    – We took out a 3 year temporary visa at a cost of $5,940MP per person. This gives us the option after 3 years of taking out either Temporary or Permanent residency and also let us see more clearly at that time the advantages/disadvantages of both.
    – If you have an FM2 it appears that the length of time on that may be counted towards your 4 year residency requirement
    Procedure
    – Pull up Internet form on http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php/page/Solicitud_de_Estancia
    – Line 1 enter Extender la Estancia
    – Line 2 enter Expedicion de Tarjeta de residente por Renovacion
    – NUE? – tick box and when prompted enter your NUE which you will find top right corner of your current FM3. The form will then auto complete for you
    – You have to confirm that the information is correct then print it off and take to Immigration
    – You also need to take your Passport and FM3 together with a photocopy of the passport information page and a photocopy of both sides of the FM3. I also had a copy of my recent utility bill in case but they did not need it.
    – You need the required photos. Just go to Soriana down the street from Immigration and tell them you want Immigration photos and they will do them while you wait for 30 pesos.
    – Go to Immigration at the Cruise Ship Terminal and line up to see to the English speaking lady seated at a desk on the left and she will check your application and provide a personalised Spanish cover letter for you. She will also provide you with a Form Basico for you to complete and a form for you to take to the Bank to pay your Visa fee.
    – Return to Immigration from the Bank with original and one copy of the payment receipt and sign in the visitor book where you enter your a turn number from the Federal policeman and take a seat.
    – When your number is called take your document package to the clerk who will check it/ stamp it, return your Passport and provide you with a stamped receipt that shows you the website address and NUT reference number. She told us to check on that site in about 2 weeks as they will notify us there when our Visa is ready for pickup.
    In summary the new process is smoother and less complex than before. The Brokers no longer have priority over anyone. They have to line up with the rest of us. The English speaking Immigration lady is a sweetheart – really patient and helpful. If you have everything organised you can do it an about 2/3 hours. The waiting room is clean, air-conditioned and more chairs than before.

    Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      November 26, 2012 at 5:40 pm

      Barry they just changed the rules and they should have counted all past visas allowing you to go to Permanent Resident if you have 4 years of continuous visas.

      Reply
      • Barry says:

        November 26, 2012 at 10:24 pm

        Yes I tried to point out without success that I have had 4 previous Fm3’s – their postion was only the validity of the most recent – 1 year could count towards residency requirements. So as I have now processed as temporary resident I think I will be best to leave it that way and then in 3 years my options of temporary versus permanent will also be clearer.
      • yucalandia says:

        November 26, 2012 at 10:33 pm

        Hi Barry,
        Yes, only the SMA INM office is so far reporting that they will combine years from different permits (including successive FM3s) towards qualifying for Residente Permanente. Unofficial reports out of SMA are saying that INM SMA thinks this interpretations should be adopted nationwide, but who knows…

        Thanks for the good information update. What INM office gave you this ruling?
        steve
46. valene says:

    November 26, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    On Nov 20th, John Garvin wrote about what he learned at a meeting In San Miguel D. In that posting he mentioned that, if you meet the financial requirements, you do not need to wait four years to go Permanente. Has anyone found this not to be true when applying? I was supposed to meet my lawyer to review all of my documentation today, but she is sick. I seem to know more than she does, from what I learned on this site! I would like to hear of at least one success storey!

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 26, 2012 at 9:55 pm

      Hi Valene,
      Because there are over 400 pages of Spanish government-speak legalese to tackle in 4 documents: the Law, the Reglamento, and 2 Lineamientos documents, and because the Lineamientos were released just one day before the INM offered the new program to the public, I suspect most lawyers have struggled to digest all of it. We have a 3 decades of experience digesting and crystallizing legislation publication, along with a 1000 pages or so a week of contracts and SOPs, so, we might have a leg up in this area of understanding the overlapping descriptions of rules from a formal centralized D.F. perspective. In another quirk of irony, hundreds of expats across Mexico have been going into their local INM offices and pushing the information-envelope on the issues most important to expats this past 2 weeks – with special emphasis on the items that are not clearly defined in the Law/Reglamento/Lineamientos combination. By daily surveying expat forum reports from across Mexico, sorting out the good reliable reports from the less-reliable mis-translation related ones, the efforts of hundreds of people have been concentrated into focused multi-location distillations of how things are actually working, so we get to harness the power of the internet – where a lawyer probably cannot formally use this source material. Plus, lawyers have an obligation to get it precisely right, before they advise people – while we can give our insights based on best-available-knowledge at the time, and then change and adjust our insights and descriptions as the knowledge of INM’s new procedures evolve and are resolved.

      We also have a handful of really fine professional contributors, including 2 attorneys, working separately and together to identify and resolve answers to some of the knotty problems, and pushing me to refine and polish our presentation, while individual attorneys are likely working alone. Finally, I have to give credit to our local Merida INM office for giving crystal clear, concise, and accurate answer to our questions posed to their personnel.

      We have read one reliable report from a good expat that they were approved by their Consulate for a visa to come to Mexico and get a Residente Permanente, with no prior residency in Mexico, and they further reported that their INM office in SMA had accepted their application – but no word yet on a Tarjeta de Residencia being issued yet for this case. Finally, we identified and wrote about this option back in May 2011, as a clear part of the new Law, but there is no direct mention of it in the Lineamientos, unless you conclude that it is covered by the “Points System”.

      I mention all this to soften some of the expectations and criticisms about how slowly Mexican lawyers have been to come up to speed on the new regulations.

      Maybe you will be the first documented case?
      All the best,
      steve

      Reply
47. Joe says:

    November 27, 2012 at 4:44 am

    “We have read one reliable report from a good expat that they were approved by their Consulate for a visa to come to Mexico and get a Residente Permanente, with no prior residency in Mexico, and they further reported that their INM office in SMA had accepted their application – but no word yet on a Tarjeta de Residencia being issued yet for this case. Finally, we identified and wrote about this option back in May 2011, as a clear part of the new Law, but there is no direct mention of it in the Lineamientos, unless you conclude that it is covered by the “Points System”.”

    I think when all is said and done it will turn out that the direct to permanent residency based on financial self-sufficiency route will be open. If this proves to be true it will be in part because of the difference between what logic tells people should be so, and what the law simply says is so. There has been discussion of the illogic of allowing someone to apply for permanent residence in Mexico, perhaps without ever having even visited Mexico (as an extreme case) but, so far as I can see, the law lays down no requirement for proof that you know anything at all about Mexico, if you´re qualifying on a financially self-sufficient basis; nor does it require that you actually spend any significant amount of time in Mexico, after having obtained this legal status. Put simply, it has little to do with our common concept of what constitutes residency in a country, which is usually based on physical presence.

    On a related subject, nowhere have I seen in the forums dealing with this topic a discussion of the potential tax implications for a foreigner who takes up the legal status of permanent resident: no longer will he be able to maintain that he is not a resident for tax purposes, thus subjecting himself to the laws of Mexican Taxation. Will this matter? I´ll leave that to those more familiar with Mexican Tax Law.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 27, 2012 at 7:37 am

      Joe,
      Whether you have Permanent Residency or not, foreigners living in Mexico have always had tax liabilities, beyond property taxes or IVA’s.

      Investment income is taxed. Capital Gains are taxed, corporate dividends are taxed, rental income is taxed. etc etc. One basic premise of the Tax Treaty between the US and Mexico: Any income you receive on which you are not already paying taxes back in the USA, is potentially taxable in Mexico for Mexican Residents.

      Deloitte has a decent primer on Mexican taxes in English at http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-Global/Local%20Assets/Documents/Tax/Taxation%20and%20Investment%20Guides/2012/dttl_tax_guide_2012_Mexico.pdf . Personally, the Mexicans we know and work with say that the Mexican tax system is so complex, that it is better to simply hire a good tax attorney, and have them handle things. Consider honarariums for example…

      What insights do you have from the foreigner’s perspective on tax liabilities?

      Reply
      • Linda Leonard says:

        November 27, 2012 at 2:25 pm

        When you said ” Any income you receive on which you are not already paying taxes back in the USA, is taxable in the USA.” did you mean to say “is taxable in Mexico”???
      • yucalandia says:

        November 27, 2012 at 3:31 pm

        Linda,
        Correct. Thanks for reporting the error. I have fixed this typo.
        THANKS, steve
48. Barry says:

    November 27, 2012 at 7:16 am

    My experience was based on the INM office in Puerto Vallarta

    Reply
    • Barry says:

      December 7, 2012 at 1:37 pm

      To update you with our progress – Visa application approved after 9 working days – had to go to Immigration office and line up for our turn and then fingerprints of all fingers both hands taken – Visa package now has to go to Mexico City for issuance of Visa – anticipated that it will be available in 15 working days. Of course we are now entering the holiday season so anticipate it being ready some time later in January. If we need to leave the country while this is being processed we have to get a temporary authority valid for return within 60 days at a cost of $320 MP

      Reply
49. Joe says:

    November 27, 2012 at 8:29 am

    ¨What insights do you have from the foreigner’s perspective on tax liabilities?¨

    Certainly the U.S. wants to tax the income of U.S. persons where ever they may live, and Mexico wants to tax the income derived in Mexico. Where it gets trickier is on the question of taxation of world wide income of foreigners, holding the status of permenent resident in Mexico. There is an exemption for certain of foreigners´ income from abroad which is written into Mexican Tax Law and, if you´re not a citizen of Mexico, you´re clearly a ¨foreigner¨ for the purposes of this exemption, but what is not so clear to me is what happens when you assume the status of permanent resident, as ¨foreigness¨ begins to be a little more muddied, especially when coupled with physical presence in Mexico more than 180 days in 360 (the point at which you become subject to Mexican Tax, and the information provided when you sign up with Hacienda points that out: this harmonizes with the tax law of all the jurisdictions I´ve lived in, thus far, and must be an international standard for establishing residency for taxation purposes).

    Like many countries, Mexico has a provision that says if you do not declare the foreign income on your Mexican Tax return, and claim it as exempt, you lose the exemption. It may just be that no one has ever tested this by declaring their foreign investment income, pension income, or social security income, derived from abroad, on their Mexican Tax return, if they file one.

    Like I said, this is a question for those better versed in Mexican Tax Law than me, and there may be a reason why this is not an issue, as a matter of Mexican Tax Law: I´ll leave it to them.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 27, 2012 at 12:46 pm

      Joe,
      Solid insights, that fit our understandings too.

      Many times the person asking the supposedly “simple question” often happens to know more than the so-called “expert” they are consulting with. I think this is one of those cases, especially when personal experience trumps theoretical or strictly legal evaluations.

      Have you read our older article on Income Tax Liabilities in Mexico for Foreigners? at https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/income-tax-liabilities-in-mexico/ This article focuses on issues faced by expats from the perspectives of the previous INM Inmigrante, No Inmigrante, and Inmigrado permits. but the basic principles still apply… You might also check out our article on Capital Gains taxes for Foreigners, when they buy or sell Mexican properties. e.g. How you handle the purchase can either cost you or save you $60,000 – $100,000 USD later when you try to sell your Mexican home. See our Capital Gains Taxes article atL https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/capital-gains-taxes-on-mexican-properties/ . In addition to the references in these articles, you might find http://www.taxmeless.com/MEXICO.htm and http://www.taxmeless.com/page4.html helpful?

      For readers who are thinking, Just what are Joe and Steve fussing about?, consider:

      Can you tell us: Just where is your home?….

      Is it your Tax Home?
      Is it the property you call “home”?
      Is it your principal place of Fiscal Activity?
      Is it the locale where you have full voting rights?
      Is it the place where you have been the past 183 days?
      Is it the place where you spent at least 183 days last year?
      Is it the place that you can sell, and then claim a homeowner’s exemption on any Capital Gains taxes?

      If you know the best answers, and why, then read no further. If you hesitated on even one of the 7 questions, then it might be worth reading on…

      It turns out that there are different-but-equally-valid-and-legal answers to each of these questions. Further, your answer should depend who is asking you, and when they are asking.

      e.g. To do things well, you should give different answers if you are responding to
      ~ US-CIS,
      ~ different answers for Hacienda,
      ~ yet different answers to US-CBP,
      ~ other answers for INM’s purposes,
      ~ totally unique answers to US-IRS, and
      ~ different answers for SRE’s question, and
      ~ different answers to US-State Dept/Consular Officials, and
      ~ yet still different answers to your local voting precinct officials…

      Not to be cute, but the answers you give may either:
      ~ get you deported, … or save you from deportation…
      ~ allow you to enter a country… or get your entry denied…
      ~ cost you $10,000’s of dollars in taxes owed, … or save you $10,000’s in taxes avoided,
      ~ cost you $25,000 to $50,000 in IRS penalties, not counting interest and bad-faith penalties, or have you owe nothing.
      ~ trigger a decade of IRS audits going back into time, and continuing forward for another decade, or avoid IRS problems
      ~ allow you to vote, … or have your voting rights suspended
      ~ trigger tax problems with Hacienda, of which I have no ideas of the consequences
      ~ cause you to be detained by ICE officers for hours and hours in the basement of some US airport …
      ~ …???

      In addition to these issues, consider the issues that Joe raised, where your choice of Residente Permanente vs Residente Temporal may dramatically affect the future taxes you may owe or avoid, based on your choice at INM today.

      Anyway, this all provides more grist for our mills, and raises the issue of a need for an updated article on tax liabilities ?
      steve

      Reply
      • Joe says:

        November 27, 2012 at 2:11 pm

        Not cute at all, Steve, very much to the point: knowing how to deal with these questions is important in an increasingly complex world.
50. Joe says:

    November 27, 2012 at 8:48 am

    Just a little note to correct the way I expressed an idea above, I should have said, ¨If you are a citizen, you are clearly not a foreigner….¨ (and where it gets muddied is…).

    Reply
51. John Garvin says:

    November 27, 2012 at 11:39 am

    In San Miguel Immigration staff are saying for Permanent Resident when a couple each must prove $2400 / month. For Temporary Resident each must prove 1900 per month. Any one else with knowledge regarding double income for a couple?

    Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      November 27, 2012 at 3:02 pm

      Hotline says $1900 per single for couple for TR and $2400 for PR. No additional income required for a couple vs a single person.

      Reply
52. John Garvin says:

    November 28, 2012 at 6:44 am

    From Los Angeles Consulate:
    • Valid Passport (original and one copy).
    • Letter addressed to the Consulate General of Mexico, stating that you are rentista or retired, and that you are willing to reside in Mexico. The letter must be typed in or translated into Spanish, and should include:
    • Your request to have a retiring or rentista resident card.
    • Date of travel and port of entry.
    • Address in Mexico.
    • Proof of economic solvency through a letter from a bank institution (last three bank statements), stating that your retirement pension or earnings, is in the uninterrupted amount of $2,000.00 dollars or more a month. Add 25% more for each additional dependent family member.
    • Passport size pictures: 2 front and 1 right profile
    • Payment of consular fee:
    • Consular visa $36.00 Dollars applicable to some nationalities.
    • Applicant must be present in order to submit paperwork.

    • If you are planning on taking your household goods, you have 6 months to apply for a stamp. You need to present an itemized list (4 copies) of your belongings, typed in Spanish, in columns, at single spacing, with the description of each item. Electrical appliances must include name, brand, model, and serial number. For example:
    CANTIDAD ARTICULO MARCA MODELO NO. DE SERIE
    1 refrigerador Kenmore 234234234 A36548
    1 televisión RCA 989251883 X16896
    1 comedor de madera de 5 piezas
    3 cajas de utensilios de cocina
    4 cajas de ropa

    • Payment of consular stamp:
    • $127.00 Dollars

    Applications are accepted Monday through Friday from 7:00 to 10:00 am.

    The payments are: cash, credit or debit card or money order

    Reply
    • ranchosolymar says:

      November 28, 2012 at 9:01 am

      Is this for Temporal?

      Holly Hunter CFP http://www.VistaMagicaVacationRentals.com http://www.RanchoSolYMar.com US Address: P.O. Box 36 Portsmouth, NH 03802

      “Worry is praying for what you don’t want”.

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        November 28, 2012 at 9:33 am

        Yes, this article describes the procedures and requirements for Residente Temporal Tarjeta de Residente applicants.
        steve
      • ranchosolymar says:

        November 28, 2012 at 9:35 am

        I have followed all of your posts here, but have now forgotten the requirement to obtain citizenship? We have 5 yrs FM3 and last year upped our FMs to Lucrativa. Thanks, Holly

        Holly Hunter CFP http://www.VistaMagicaVacationRentals.com http://www.RanchoSolYMar.com US Address: P.O. Box 36 Portsmouth, NH 03802

        “Worry is praying for what you don’t want”.
      • yucalandia says:

        November 28, 2012 at 9:49 am

        Best not to mix the 2 in your mind: SRE (equivalent to the US State Dept) governs naturalization processes, not INM/SEGOB (equivalent to US CIS-CBP/Homeland Security). SSRE’s naturalized citizenship policies are broadly written enough to really not require re-writing to accommodate the new INM changes, in our humble opinion.

        We can describe the basic requirements for citizenship applicants if needed, but I think they are already listed in our articles: 6 months of valid INM visa remaining, Spanish competency, no excessive stays outside of Mexico, detailed knowledge of Mexican History for under 60 year olds, special exemptions for foreign family members and foreign spouses of Mexicans, etc.
        steve
      • ranchosolymar says:

        November 28, 2012 at 10:05 am

        Hmmmm, now I’m worried again! I thought time out of the country (the old fm2 issue) had been eliminated. So,if you can now go from fm3 to Nationalized/Citizen directly without fm2, how or why would there be an out of country penalty? How much time out is excessive, how would it be determined since in the past it was something like 18 months out of 60 mos allowed. This very much impacts us as we have a property in Maine that we do work on pre and post rental season and now 2 grandkids. We also have 2 house for sale in GTO and would love the preferred tax treatment of citizens. Thanks again! Ps referred a Mex lawyer to your site.

        Holly Hunter CFP http://www.VistaMagicaVacationRentals.com http://www.RanchoSolYMar.com US Address: P.O. Box 36 Portsmouth, NH 03802

        “Worry is praying for what you don’t want”.
      • yucalandia says:

        November 28, 2012 at 3:03 pm

        Holly,
        Time out of the country has always mattered to SRE, which is why they check passport pages for legible stamps. e.g. SRE has rejected some past applications, because some of applicant’s passport stamps were illegible. Continuing: If in their opinion you have been outside of Mexico in the years before applying for citizenship, then you likely really are not serious about residing full time in Mexico, and they question your motivations for applying for citizenship(?). So, the 18 months again was an INM requirement, not SRE…

        This is why some people find citizenship almost impossible to get at some SRE offices. e.g. At our office, there is a history of any applicant who comes with a helper/friend/lawyer/family member to start the initial application, and if that helper does even light interpretation, then the SRE agent quietly checks a box that says: Applicant not able to speak and understand commonly spoken Spanish…. and their application is eventually rejected – due to the applicant not managing the spoken Spanish parts of the first visit. I am not trying to scare you, but to get you to see a good local attorney who KNOWS how your SRE office works – and not rely on things “I heard from someone” and not rely on advice from the internet or from forums.

53. Pingback: Precedents for Aduana to Restrict Permanent Residents from Keeping TIP Cars | Surviving Yucatan

54. trishinmexico says:

    November 28, 2012 at 10:04 am

    I think the SRE rules still list 5 years with an FM2 (or less with Meican spouse)? I imagine that they will change that to Residente Permanete?
    Thanks, Trish.

    Reply
55. John Garvin says:

    November 28, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    I talked to the head of Immigration in person today, Lic Villalpando. The amount of income for a Temporary Resident is $1900 for 1 and $3600 for 2! He showed us the manual. There is no break for being a couple.
    The same applies to Permanent Resident $2400 for one and $4800 for a couple.
    Thankfully, those with an existing visa get grandfathered and simply wait to become permanent resident and not prove income.
    This totally contradicts the Hotline and many consulates.

    Reply
    • Linda Leonard says:

      November 28, 2012 at 2:06 pm

      Well it seems that this whole thing is a real mess. We went into the immigration office here in Zihuatanejo to see what we would need when our renewal date for our FM3’s arrives in January. We were told we qualified for permanent residency status & just needed to bring new photos and 6 months of bank statements. They didn’t mention what the bank statements should reflect. I guess we need to go back in and ask that specifically in case we need to take proof of investment money, or proof of owning our condo, because our pensions combined do not amount to 4800/month. Any advice?

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        November 28, 2012 at 3:05 pm

        Hi Linda,
        I would relax, and wait to see how things shake out in your office. Their procedures and internal requirements may change over the next month.
        steve
56. A. Ceniceros says:

    November 28, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    My husband is a Mexican Citizen. If I moved with him to Mexico, would I be required to show proof of income in order to obtain resident status, or could I obtain it as his dependant?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 28, 2012 at 10:00 pm

      Hi A.
      There are too many things we do not know about you to answer your question. For typical spouses of Mexican citizens, you would need to apply for and complete 2 full years of Residente Temporal. Do you have a current FM2 or FM3? How many years have you completed on your current INM permit?
      Hope that gives you a starting point,
      steve

      Reply
      • A. Ceniceros says:

        November 29, 2012 at 8:03 am

        Thank you for replying. I don’t have any type of residency as of yet. We are still residing in the United States. I was just curious as to what the first step would be if we moved there.
    • John Garvin says:

      November 29, 2012 at 5:44 am

      My answer is”no” for Temporary Resident based on: Proof of a any familiar bond with another Temporary or Permanent Resident or a marital (or equivalent) bond with a Mexican;

      Reply
      • Rosie Campos says:

        December 2, 2012 at 7:18 am

        I’m in the same situation as A. Ceniceros and from the research I’ve done, I see that this is the case across the board with the new law. NO requirement for proof of income for spouses of Mexicans. 🙂
      • A. Ceniceros says:

        December 3, 2012 at 9:39 am

        Thanks Rosie Campos. So I could get resident status without proving that I have an income apart from my husband?
57. Bill Phelan says:

    November 28, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    Steve,
    I contacted the Mexican embassy consular office here in Washington DC yesterday and they informed me I would need a “letter of non criminal record” in addition to other items you lsted when applying for residente temporale for the first time. In Maryland when you go to the police for this, they tell you, that you need a full blown, fingerprint, FBI background check. You might want to add this as a possible requirement for first time applicants, so people are aware. We leave Dec 9 for Mx so I will not be getting resident status, as there is not enough time to obtain the criminal background check before leaving.
    Bill Phelan

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 28, 2012 at 10:20 pm

      Hi Bill,
      Long time no hear. How are you?

      Thanks for the very good update. I hesitate to make any broad announcements, because we have not heard of this requirement from any other Mexican Consulates. 4 years ago, back when Consulates used to handle these requests, some Consulates required the statement from your local law enforcement authority while others did NOT. Further, the local law enforcement officials out West, were willing to write letters certifying that you had no criminal record in their jusrisdiction, nor in their State.

      Maybe since Maryland is so close to DC, they are adding the unnecessary requirements of FBI background checks. I personally would contact a Consulate far from DC – like the Orlando Fla Mexican Consulate. Ask them what documents they require for meeting the proof of no criminal activity – and ask how their Florida law enforcement officials handle the issue. If you can find some good precedents from other law enforcement agencies that FBI background checks are unnecessary, maybe, just maybe you could get the Maryland fuzz to reduce their requirements. Who made the ruling of needing FBI checks? a low level clerk/policeman? If an underling told you this, go up the chain?… talk to a supervisor… and then talk to a manager, and then talk to a Chief, and then talk to a Superintendent… going up the chain to try to unknot this unreasonable requirement???

      All the best,
      steve

      Reply
      • Nicole says:

        February 4, 2013 at 5:06 pm

        “Contact a consulate”? I have tried contacting the San Diego Consulate four times via their messaging tool on their web site and twice by phone (leaving voice mail). They never replied, and others I have heard from since then say “forget it – they will not.” All I want is to know just what documents to take to them to apply for a temp. residency visa, before I waste 2 days (traveling there from MX and spending the night, due to their inconvenient early hours) applying. 😦
      • yucalandia says:

        February 4, 2013 at 5:43 pm

        Hi Nicole,
        I do not know what the San Diego Consulate is requiring.

        You could take the items listed by the Mexican Consulate in Los Angeles :
        From Los Angeles Consulate for Retired applicants:
        • Valid Passport (original and one copy).
        • Letter addressed to the Consulate General of Mexico, stating that you are rentista or retired, and that you are willing to reside in Mexico. The letter must be typed in or translated into Spanish, and should include:
        • Your request to have a retiring or rentista resident card.
        • Date of travel and port of entry.
        • Address in Mexico.
        • Proof of economic solvency through a letter from a bank institution (last three bank statements), stating that your retirement pension or earnings, is in the uninterrupted amount of $2,000.00 dollars or more a month. Add 25% more for each additional dependent family member.
        • Passport size pictures: 2 front and 1 right profile
        • Payment of consular fee:
        • Consular visa $36.00 Dollars applicable to some nationalities.
        • Applicant must be present in order to submit paperwork.

        • If you are planning on taking your household goods, you have 6 months to apply for a stamp. You need to present an itemized list (4 copies) of your belongings, typed in Spanish, in columns, at single spacing, with the description of each item. Electrical appliances must include name, brand, model, and serial number. For example:
        CANTIDAD ARTICULO MARCA MODELO NO. DE SERIE
        1 refrigerador Kenmore 234234234 A36548
        1 televisión RCA 989251883 X16896
        1 comedor de madera de 5 piezas
        3 cajas de utensilios de cocina
        4 cajas de ropa

        • Payment of consular stamp: $127.00 Dollars

        Applications are accepted Monday through Friday from 7:00 to 10:00 am.

        The payments are: cash, credit or debit card or money order. ”
        * * * * * * *

        I would note that you should take the documentation listed in our article above, to prove personal fiscal solvency for the type of Residency card that you want: where Permanent Residents need different proofs than Temporary Residents.
        steve
    • John Garvin says:

      November 29, 2012 at 5:47 am

      Miami, Albuquerque, Los Angeles definitely do not require background checks.

      Reply
      • Nicole says:

        February 4, 2013 at 5:07 pm

        Do you happen to know if San Diego does?
      • Nicole says:

        February 4, 2013 at 8:34 pm

        FYI, this email from the Mexican Consulate in Portland, Oregon was posted on another forum. (I only wish that other Consulate offices were so helpful!)

        • There are two kinds of residency visas, temporary residency and permanent residency. Here is the information on how to apply. You do not need an appointment to submit your application, you should just come in during our visa services hours Monday, Wednesday or Friday from 12pm to 1:30pm. (This information is also available in our website http://www.sre.gob.mx/portland, under the visas section).

        Best regards,
        Lilibeth Vinagre
        Visas Department
        •
        Visa for temporary residents without authorization for lucrative activities

        This type of visa is for you if:
        • You are traveling to Mexico for retirement, investments, professional activities, technical activities, artistic activities, scientific activities, and sport activities or as a minister of religion.
        • You will be in Mexico for more than 180 days but less than 4 years.
        • You don’t have a work authorization.
        Requirements:
        • All applicants must come in person to the Consulate’s office (1305 SW 12th Ave, Portland, OR), mailed applications will not be accepted.
        • Fill out the Application form, English or Español.
        • Valid passport and one photocopy of the pages containing personal information, bearer’s photograph and signature and expiration date/extensions.
        • Valid US visa for multiple entries and one photocopy (non US citizens only).
        • Valid I-94 in original and one photocopy (non US citizens only).
        • One recent passport size photo (size 1.5 x 1.3/4 inches), in color, white background, no glasses, no smiling.
        • Original financial records under the applicant’s name and one photocopy of each, such as: Last twelve months of bank statements (checking, savings or investments) in US Dollars with an average monthly balance of at least 95,225.00USD*, or last six months of employment or pension pay stubs with a monthly balance of at least $1905.00USD* after taxes (yearly social security statements are acceptable). You can also submit original deed documents (notarized by Mexican notary public) proving the ownership of a property in Mexico with value of at least $190,450.00USD*.
        • If a company/organization in Mexico is inviting the foreign national, the applicant can submit an original invitation letter** from them (the invitation must have a letterhead, address and signed in ink. Scanned or pdf versions won’t be accepted), accompanied by official documents that prove the applicant is qualified to carry out the activities stated in the letter. Ministers of religion should also submit original letter of “anuencia” (consent) of the Ministry of the Interior (Secretaría de Gobernación) from Mexico.
        • Payment of Consular fee of $36.00USD in cash, debit or credit card, no personal checks accepted.

        IMPORTANT NOTES:

        I. To apply, minors (under 18 years old) must be accompanied by both parents (or legal guardian) and submit original birth certificate and one photocopy or original legal documents of proof of guardianship and one photocopy. If only one of the parents is present at the time of application there must be an original notarized authorization from the absent parent with a copy of both sides of their valid official ID, or original custody documents and one copy of them.
        II. All documents issued outside of Mexico considered public records, such as birth, marriage, death certificates, court documents or school records/degrees must bear the seal of the apostille issued by the corresponding authority.
        *Amounts may change depending on the official Mexican minimum wage and the daily exchange rate
        **Invitation Letter:
        • Original Invitation Letter from the company/organization based in Mexico must be addressed to the Consulate of Mexico in Portland requesting the visa and specifying:
        o The company/organization’s main activities/services/purpose.
        o Applicant’s full name and nationality.
        o Exact purpose of the trip to Mexico (the purpose should be directly related to the company/organization’s activities/services/purpose).
        o Length of the trip to Mexico.
        o How applicant’s expenses will be covered (if the company/organization will cover expenses, must present proof of financial records for past six months).
        o Registration number of the company/organization, plus address, complete name and contact information of the company/organization and its representative.
        o Copy of ID of the person who signed the invitation letter.
        The visa process can take up to 10 working days after the application has been submitted.
        THE VISA SERVICES HOURS ARE: MONDAY, WEDNESDAY OR FRIDAY FROM 12:00PM TO 1:30PM.
        Filing an application does not guarantee the issuance of a visa. All cases must be reviewed by a consular official, who will determine the approval of the visa issuance.
        PLEASE BE AWARE THAT:
        Some cases are required to have an additional review and approval from the Mexican Immigration Authority; this process can take up to 10 additional working days. Unfortunately, the Consulate cannot do anything to expedite this procedure.

        Visa for permanent residents

        This type of visa is for you if:
        • You will be in Mexico indefinitely.
        • You don’t have a work authorization.
        Requirements:
        • All applicants must come in person to the Consulate’s office (1305 SW 12th Ave, Portland, OR), mailed applications will not be accepted.
        • Fill out the Application form, English or Español.
        • Valid passport and one photocopy of the pages containing personal information, bearer’s photograph and signature and expiration date/extensions.
        • Valid US visa for multiple entries and one photocopy (non US citizens only).
        • Valid I-94 in original and one photocopy (non US citizens only).
        • One recent passport size photo (size 1.5 x 1.3/4 inches), in color, white background, no glasses, no smiling.
        • Original financial records and one photocopy of each, such as: Last twelve months of your bank statements (checking, savings or investments) in US Dollars with an average monthly balance of at least 119,032.00USD*, or last six months of pension pay stubs with a monthly balance of at least $2381.00USD* after taxes (yearly social security statements are acceptable).
        • Payment of Consular fee of $36.00USD in cash, debit or credit card, no personal checks accepted.
        IMPORTANT NOTES:

        I. To apply, minors (under 18 years old) must be accompanied by both parents (or legal guardian) and submit original birth certificate and one photocopy or original legal documents of proof of guardianship and one photocopy. If only one of the parents is present at the time of application there must be an original notarized authorization from the absent parent with a copy of both sides of their valid official ID, or original custody documents and one copy of them.
        II. All documents issued outside of Mexico considered public records, such as birth, marriage, death certificates, court documents or school records/degrees must bear the seal of the apostille issued by the corresponding authority.
        *Amounts may change depending on the official Mexican minimum wage and the daily exchange rate
        The visa process can take up to 10 working days after the application has been submitted.
        THE VISA SERVICES HOURS ARE: MONDAY, WEDNESDAY OR FRIDAY FROM 12:00PM TO 1:30PM.
        Filing an application does not guarantee the issuance of a visa. All cases must be reviewed by a consular official, who will determine the approval of the visa issuance.
        PLEASE BE AWARE THAT:
        Some cases are required to have an additional review and approval from the Mexican Immigration Authority; this process can take up to 10 additional working days. Unfortunately, the Consulate cannot do anything to expedite this procedure.
58. William Glenn says:

    November 28, 2012 at 11:22 pm

    Blog with information on Mazatlan Immigration Forum: http://www.vidamaz.com/

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 29, 2012 at 4:47 pm

      Good update on how things are being proposed in Mazatlan. Most of it matches the national rules, with some local twists – quirky enough that it may not apply widely to other expats applying at offices other than Mazatlan.

      Big sections of key information that affect expats are missing from the powerpoint presentations. e.g. It is odd that they have left out any mention of other INM approved ~ really common ~ methods of qualifying for residency, like the Average Annual Balances, or investing or owning shares in a Mexican company, or owning a qualifying business, nor do they mention the options available for spouses and family of Mexicans (which fits a lot of folks who have married Mexicans).

      People using the Mazatlan Immigration Forum information should definitely check other sources to cover all the missing sections and missing areas.
      steve

      Reply
59. John Garvin says:

    November 29, 2012 at 5:52 am

    This is why I believe only one person in a couple needs to have the required income. The second person qualifies for temporary Resident by the words: “Proof of a any familiar bond with another Temporary or Permanent Resident or a marital (or equivalent) bond with a Mexican”. This may apply to Permanent Resident as well. Steve and others, any comment?

    Reply
60. John Garvin says:

    November 29, 2012 at 7:34 am

    Click to access Immigration%20Forum%20Q%26A.pdf

    Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      November 29, 2012 at 11:42 am

      Please note, the above is from a Q and A with INM and slideshow presented by the Governor’s Advisory Council and will feature representatives from Immigration, Aduana and Hacienda in an attempt to clarify a lot of the things we have all read about on various forums on the Internet.

      Reply
      • Linda Leonard says:

        November 29, 2012 at 12:57 pm

        The link does not appear to work.
    • John Garvin says:

      November 29, 2012 at 8:45 pm

      Q and A with INM and slideshow presented by the Governor’s Advisory Council featuring representatives from Immigration, Aduana and Hacienda in an attempt to clarify a lot of the things we have all read about on various forums on the Internet.

      QUESTIONS FOR IMMIGATION FORUM

      FACT CHECK / VERIFICACIÓN DE DATOS

      IS IT TRUE THAT: / ES VERDAD QUÉ:

      1. All current FM2 and FM3 permit holders get full credit for time they have
      completed on their current permit?

      SI

      2. If you want a Residente Permanente card, FM2 and FM3 years count towards
      the 4 years of Residente Temporal requirement?

      SI

      3. FM2 and FM3 holders must submit a cover letter describing that they want a
      “renovacion” of their current permit, changing to either Residente Temporal or
      Residente Permanente.

      SI

      4. Both the Residente Temporal and Residente Permanente have options for 1
      thru 4 years

      No.

      Only the Temporary Resident has this option.

      The Permanent Resident has no time limit

      5. FM2 holders with Famiy or spouse status are eligible to apply for Residente
      Permanente after completing 2 years on their FM2.

      SI

      6. The income requirements for proving fiscal independence are cut in half (1/2)
      for both home-owning Residente Permanente and Residente Temporal
      applicants who already have valid Inmigrante Rentista or No Inmigrante
      Rentista visas

      NO

      7. NEW applicants for Residente Permanente or Temporal (who have no current
      FM2 or FM3) will be required to show proof of sufficient income.

      SI

      8. For Residente Temporal applications for retirees and pensioners

      – NEW applications can only be made at a Mexican consulate in your home country

      Si

      9. NEW applicants for a Residente Temporal will have to provide the following:
      Original and copy of proof of investments or bank
      accounts for the previous 12 months – with an ANNUAL Monthly balance
      equivalent to approx.. $96,000 USD (depending on exchange rate)

      SI

      AND / OR

      Original and copies of documents showing that has employment or pension

      – With non – encumbered monthly income for the last six months of:

      – equivalent to approx.

      $1950 USD pcm (subject to Exchange rate)

      SI

      10. Residente Permanente applications can be made at an INM office in México.

      Yes if you have an FM3 or FM2 for 4 Years

      11. Residente Permanente applicants who qualify for the previous question No. 10 MUST SUBMIT documents proving one of the following:

      AND / OR

      Original and copy of proof of investments or bank accounts with average Monthly
      equivalent to approx. $120,000 USD (depending on exchange rate)

      NO

      AND / OR

      Original and copies of documents showing that monthly income has for the
      previous six months been equivalent to approx. $2500 USD pcm (depending on
      current exchange rate)

      NO

      Questions from the International Community

      1. What is the Actual Real Difference between Residente Temporal and
      Residente Permanente?

      Residente temporal is for a maximum period of 4 years and pay each year for up
      to four years

      The permanent residency allows you to live in Mexico indefinitely with a one
      time fee

      2. Is it true that permit holders with 4 prorrogas on their existing permit must
      allow it to expire and reapply?

      No. Those people who have completed 4 annual extensions have to leave Mexico or change to a permanent resident
      .
      3. How long of a process is this?

      20 Days

      4. Is there any way to start the process early rather than waiting for it to expire?

      NO.

      5. Is travel outside of Mexico allowed while this process is taking place?

      SI

      6. What are the costs for a permit to leave on this basis

      $320.00 PESOS

      7. Will the minimum monthly income requirement be less if you own a home in Mexico as it was in the past?

      NO.

      8. What are the advantages and also disadvantages of someone who is a
      Residente Temporal (formally FM 3 or FM 2) obtaining Residente
      Permanente?

      The Permanent resident does not have to renew whereas the residente temporal can only stay for a maximum of 4 years without becoming a permanent resident

      9. Beyond a copy of a marriage license for married couples, what sort of
      documentation is needed to verify a familiar bond (or equivalent) with
      another Temporary or Permanent Resident?

      Español.- Aparte de una copia del certificado de matrimonio ¿qué tipo de
      documentos necesitas como prueba de lazo familiar con otra persona que tiene
      residencia (permanente o temporal)?

      Only with a marriage certificate verified with the relevant Mexican authority
      AND – For parents a birth Mexican authority

      10. Are the rules any different for someone that is married to a Mexican National?

      NO.

      11. If one applies for an Inmigrante Permanente – what is the maximum time one is allowed to remain in that status before being required to change to Inmigrado status?

      The Permanent Resident is equivalent to inmigrado status.
      .
      12. Are the minimum monthly income requirements the same for
      all of Mexico or does it vary by region as it did in the past?

      It’s the same in all of Mexico

      13. Are the new rules the same for Foreign Business Owners?

      SI

      14. Will an Inmigrado be able to own real estate without the need of
      a fideicomiso?

      No you still require a fidei comiso

      15. If I have been living in Mexico for more than 4 years on a Temporary
      Resident Visa – must I convert it to a Permanent Resident Visa?

      or can I continue indefinitely as a Temporary Resident should I wish to do so?

      YOU MUST CHANGE TO A RESIDENTE PERMANENTE

      16. If I pay for a 4 year Temporary Visa with a working visa and cease to work during that period – how does that change my status?

      If you are no longer working you have to inform immigration and you will not automatically qualify for a residente permanente

      17. If that WERE TO HAPPEN – Do I need to go through the entire process of application again?

      Yes at your home country’s Mexican Embassy
      .
      18. Will the money I have paid be applied to the change in status?

      NO

      19. If one is already inmigrado and a permanent resident do you have to obtain another card?

      No only if you are under 18 years old

      20. Would an individual with a documented retirement income of $1500 USD
      Canadian, who owns a notarized home valued at $100,000 US/Canadian, has a
      college degree, and owns a US-plated new automobile be allowed to obtain
      “permanent” status?

      YES – Once you have completed 4 years you can then apply for permanent residency

      21. Are people that are working here going to have restrictions on time spent out of
      Mexico if they want to apply for permanent residency?

      NO.

      22. What happens to people that cannot meet the minimum income requirements?

      You will have to leave Mexico but you can come back once you have successfully re applied and met the new requirements

      23 . What type of visa is available to a person who wants to move to Mazatlan
      and open a business? And, what are the requirements to obtain this type of
      visa?

      You have to consult with the Mexican consulate in your own country and it will depend on the application

      24. What is the process in changing our lucrativa FM3 from one company to
      another?

      You have to notify us of your change of business location

      25. If I only have a tourist visa will I be able to leave the country at 180 days and
      return the following day with a new 180 day tourist visa?

      SI

      26. Am I still able to rent a private home to live in even if I only have a 180 day
      tourist visa?

      SI

      27. I help out in a not for profit organization – do I need a specific visa to do that

      ONLY if you are applying originally from outside of mexico

      NOT if you are already in Mexico with a residente temporal or residente permanente

      28. Would any income generated by a foreigner here who has a business be
      considered a valid part of their income?

      SI

      29. With the current FM2 there are travel restrictions. I am now told that you
      can’t be out of the country for more than 15 months in 5 years – is that true?

      WHEN YOU CONFORM WITH THE CORRECT IMMIGRATION FORMS – THERE ARE NO TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS

      30. Are the income requirements based upon combined incomes when dealing
      with a husband & wife?

      NO they are on an individual basis
      .
      31. Do any of the changes affect someone currently working in Mexico?

      NO

      32. My husband and I stay in Mazatlan less than 180 days a year and currently
      each have a FM3. We own a condo. What visa is best for us?

      180 day tourist visa

      33. We drove our Motorhome from Canada, a distance over 5000 kms, to our
      home in Mexico.

      Our plan was to apply for either the FM2 or FM3 after we
      arrived.

      Can Immigration forgive those that arrived here during this change and give
      them a short period of time to get their FM2/FM3?

      NO.

      Reply

61. Pingback: Mexican Immigration Questions Answered by San Miguel Allende INM Office | Surviving Yucatan

62. John Garvin says:

    November 29, 2012 at 11:40 am

    Asked this morning… if now have a “lucrative” visa what happens at time of renewal? At your next renewal you will have to move to Permanent Resident. if you do not have 4 years on a visa you will have to prove income.

    Reply
    • wrytr says:

      February 1, 2014 at 5:17 pm

      John, I have a Residente Temporal visa with a “3” on the back, so on the last day I will go to INM (with my application already filled out and the fee already paid at the bank, if possible) and apply for Residente Permanente.
      • At that point, must I do anything at the Hacienda office in Celaya, where I got my lucrative status and RFC originally?
      • Will INM let Hacienda know that I have changed from Residente Temporal to Residente Permanente? Is that my responsibility?
      • If I don’t change jobs, am I okay NOT going to Hacienda?
      • What if I need to change my address–should I first get the Residente Permanente visa in my hands and THEN go to Hacienda? Or will INM notify them of my new address, the one that will be associated with my Permanente visa?
      • Do you have a link for the Residente Permanente application form online?

      Thank you!! Always such a great source of info!

      Anne

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        February 2, 2014 at 9:17 am

        Hi Anne,
        Since John has not answered yet, I will make a stab at replying to your questions.
        ~ We are not experts on SAT rules, but we are not aware of any SAT requirements for foreigners to notify SAT of INM visa changes, as long as SEGOB (INM) continues to award you permission (a visa) that includes the right to work.

        ~ See the prior answer.

        ~ Correct – no need to go to SAT/Hacienda.

        ~ I believe they both have the same 90 day grace period requirement for notification. To the best of my knowledge, INM does not notify SAT of your address change – but we have NO definitive information to back this up. I would notify each of SAT and INM as independent actions.

        ~ You use the INM webpage for starting your application online. See our instructions on this above: Instructions for the INM Webpage for Visiting Mexico or Moving to Mexico https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#INM%20Webpage%20for%20Visiting%20Mexico%20or%20Moving%20to%20Mexico ~ ~ If our INM link stops working (due to INM changes the webpage address), go to their homepage and look for a page called: “Solicitud_de_Estancia” .

        After completing the webpage information, then take your pieza number to your INM office with a letter that describes what you want to do. See “Example Letter #2: For applying for CHANGING from a Residente Temporal to Residente Permanente” https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Example%20Letter%20for%20applying%20for%20CHANGING%20from%20Residente%20Temporal%20to%20Residente%20Permanente if you’d like a template.

        Best of luck for a smooooth process,
        steve
63. yucalandia says:

    November 29, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    Moved from a smaller group of Comments to solicit some answers:

    Lopo wrote:
    Submitted on 2012/11/29 at 4:29 pm

    Are others who are in their home country having any luck (other than the Danes who seem to have a very responsive consulate) making an appt. to apply for their visa so that they can return to Mexico? Although the Orlando consulate has “some” information on their site, I have tried all month to make an appointment but my emails and voice mail messages are not being returned.
    And as I understand it, I cannot go to the Miami or any other consulate to apply. Anyone have word on how long it’s taking for the consulates to be ready for this new responsibility?

    Reply
64. Sue says:

    November 29, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    My husband and I have just completed the Residencia Temporal process at the Mexican Consulate in Chicago. We arrived in Chicago at 11:30 a.m. and picked up our Mexico Visa at 2:00 p.m. This how the process worked:
    I called a couple days in advance and the Visa specialist (a very friendly & knowledgeable woman named Ivette) told me to bring the following to the office:
    Passport
    1 passport photo (no glasses)
    6 months proof of income

    Cost would be $165 USD each. I was also told that we didn’t need an appointment,

    In addition we took copies of our Mexican corporation papers, and copies of our CFE, water and Telmex bills showing our address and names on the bills.

    When we arrived, we were asked to complete a very simple 1-page information form. While we were completing our forms, Ivette gathered all the information and documents that we had brought, reviewed our documents, and asked a few questions, When we had completed our forms, and satisfactorily answered all her questions, she took digital photos and fingerprints (both index fingers) from each of us. That completed the process.

    Payment was the next step of the process. We were informed that there had been a change in policy between the time I called and our arrival. The fee we were required to pay was now only $36 each, the remainder to be collected at Immigration in Mexico. We took payment coupons to the cashier in a different part of the Consulate, paid our $36 each and returned with our receipts.

    Because we were not from the Chicago area, we were told to return in about 2 hours to pick up our new Visas. Arriving back at the Consulate, all our documentation and our US passports were returned to us with a new Mexico Visa affixed to one of the passport pages. The Visa shows the following:
    Place of Issue: Chicago
    Date of Issue: 29 November 2012
    Validity: 29 May 2013 (180 days)
    No. of Entries: Una
    Visa No.: *******165
    Permanent No.: BLANK
    Type/Class Category: Residencia Temporal
    Obtener en iNAMl forma migratoria /Refer to Immigration Office
    My Name, Passport #, Birthdate, Home country
    VISA GRAVADA $36.00
    Ordinario

    The Mexico Visa also contains a large and small version of the photo that was taken during the process. The passport photo we brought was attached to the information form that we completed.

    Ivette instructed us to go to an Immigration Office within 30 days of our entry into Mexico. At that time, we will be able to pay for our “permanent card”. We can pay for 1 to 4 years at one time, with 4 years obviously being the best choice for us, since it will allow us remain for 4 years and to also temporarily import a vehicle for 4 years without the need for annual renewals. The Mexico Visa attached to our passports is good for 180 days, so we can enter Mexico once, on any date before 29 May 2013 (in our case) and when we enter we have 30 days to go to Immigration to get our “permanent card” as Residencia Temporal.

    I hope this is helpful to all of you . . .it was amazingly quick, the service was excellent, we brought what we were told and left with our new Visas, all in less than 3 hours.

    Good Luck to those that will be completing this process . . .may your experiences be as positive as ours.

    Reply
    • Jim Llamas says:

      December 29, 2012 at 6:45 pm

      Thank you so much for your detailed post on the Resident Temporary process in Chicago. I have a friend who is planing to apply in Colorado and your post will give him and his wife the information and procedure to follow. Your story has been every so helpful. Thanks.
      again

      Reply
65. 1947jbbarker says:

    November 30, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Thank you for the very helpful information. There are many web sites with old, out dated or bad information. I have a two part question.
    1.)
    From your site: Re Spouses and Dependents Effects on the Income/Deposit Requirements: (Residente Temporal)
    A good Mexican lawyer has noted in our comments on Surviving Yucatan that dependents or multiple applicants in the same family are factored in by adding: “another 100 SMG ($62.3 x 100 = $6,230 pesos or $500 USD) for (Residente Temporal) based on a bond with another (primary applicant Resident Temporal).“
    This formula comes from the Lineamientos, Tramite 5: Visa de Residencia Temporal: Requisito IV: Section d, Item 1, iii.
    If my wife and I apply together, we would need proof of income 1,920.00 for me with an additional 500.00 for a total of 2,420.00. Her Social Security and mine together is roughly 3,00.00. Can we apply with this?
    2.)
    I have a brother in Mexico with a FM-2. Can I apply under the condition of “unidad familiar”?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 30, 2012 at 11:21 am

      JB,
      Good questions.

      The requisitos for dependents of current FM2 and FM3 holders are not clear. Some INM offices are accepting the principle you quoted, others, like Mazatlan are saying that each individual applicant must have their own assets… Well, this just flat does not work for children – because kid’s don’t generally have their own bank accounts with $100K, so we expect that this issue will be resolved over time. Check with your local INM office, or Mexican Consulate, and explain your exact situation.

      You should qualify – especially if you already have FM2s or FM3s. Further, if you have a home in Mexico, then it may allow them to lower your requisitos by 1/2. You may also qualify based on significant average annual balances in retirement/bank/savings accounts. Bring all your documents, and based on other similar people’s experiences: They may decide on an overall “points” basis, that you qualify, even though NO SINGLE item qualifies you.

      Your brother in Mexico with an FM2 does not help your case.
      All the best,
      steve

      Reply
66. Linda Leonard says:

    November 30, 2012 at 11:28 am

    What documents should we take with us to prove condo ownership? The fidei comiso is HUGE- they can’t possibly want the whole thing….can they?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 30, 2012 at 1:20 pm

      Talk with your Notario and your local INM office: The specific item is a public notice from your Notario, officially describing the property and price you paid. The original deed showing the price also generally works. The catastral (property tax Predial notice) is often accepted. Some Notaries are certifying formal real estate appraisals that show higher values than your original deed – but that is up to your Notario.
      All the best,
      steve

      Reply
      • Linda Leonard says:

        December 1, 2012 at 8:08 am

        I will take your advice and check, AGAIN, with INM. I just realized that our catastral does not have our names on it- it shows Scotiabank as the owners…I guess since they have our fidei comiso. Is that normal?
      • yucalandia says:

        December 1, 2012 at 8:15 am

        yes.
67. Anita Farrar says:

    December 1, 2012 at 10:08 am

    Hi Steve, Thanks for your quick reply. The reason I was wanting a FM3 or equivalent is because I sit on the board of directors of the condominium complex that I own a condo in. That is one of their requirements. But as I do not have time to go to Vancouver to the Mex. consulate this year, I will go down with a tourist visa , as before, and go to Van. next year to apply for it. Maybe by then, they will have changed the rules again. I just heard that the rather stringent requirements for travelling with a minor have been withdrawn!

    Reply
68. Barry says:

    December 1, 2012 at 10:39 am

    I applied for an FM3 in Vancouver 4 years ago and one requirement at that time was to get a criminal record check. You might want to check to see if that is still a requirement for the new Visa.
    Barry

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 1, 2012 at 1:40 pm

      Barry,
      Yes, some Mexican Consulates are requiring this, others… NOT. e.g. The Mexican Embassy/Maryland Police combination are requiring FBI background checks (which can take up to a year), while Chicago… nada. Please check with your Consulate and report back to us just what they are currently requiring.
      steve

      Reply
69. Anita Farrar says:

    December 1, 2012 at 10:58 am

    No, apparently not anymore. Just the bank statements with loads of money in them, fotos, etc. How long did it take to get it done? Did you have to have a personal interview with the consulate?

    Reply
70. 1947jbbarker says:

    December 1, 2012 at 11:12 am

    I am posting this question thinking that many other may find themselves in this situation. I hope you are not.

    My Social Security is $1,448.00. There will be 1.7% increase as of January 1, 2013. ($1,463.50)
    I have the document from Social Security Administration to prove this.
    I have no other pension or retirement.
    I do have rental real estate rental property. I have the deed and title to the property. It is paid for.
    I have a separate bank account for that property with Bank of America.
    My personal account is with another bank.
    The rental payment is $700.00 per month. We have a rental contract which I can have notarized if necessary.
    The taxes on the property are $1,651.45 or $139.62 per month. This makes my actual income $560.38
    $1,463.50 SSA and $560.38 rental income is $2,023.88.
    The information person at the consulate seems somewhat confused. He questioned the taxes on the property but is adamant about “pension retirement documentation”.
    My 6 months of bank statements starts today 12/01/2012
    I don’t want to go there June1 and get turned away.
    Based on this data, Do you think I can my Residente Temporal ?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 1, 2012 at 1:46 pm

      JB,
      Do you already have an FM2 or FM3? If so, Yes, you qualify as long as you have no problems with your current INM permit.

      Is your property in Mexico? Then your local INM office may be giving a 1/2 off the income requisitos.
      Is your Mexican property worth more than $195,000 USD? If so, Yes.
      Can you show 12 months of account statements with an aggregate of over $95,000 USD in average monthly balances? Then Yes.
      Do you deposit the rental income into a Mexican account to prove regular income?

      If you meet any of these requirements, then you qualify. There are also people who did not meet any single qualification, but the Consulate and the INM offices both approved them based on aggregate partial qualifications in several areas. Check with your Consulate before hand.
      steve

      Reply
      • jbbarker1947 says:

        December 1, 2012 at 2:21 pm

        I do not have an FM2 or FM3.
        The poroperty is in Texas
        I do not have $95,000 USD in average monthly balances.
        I have stored all of my funiture and rented out my house. With plans to move to Mexico in March which is now looking like June, or never.
      • yucalandia says:

        December 1, 2012 at 5:55 pm

        JB,
        Hopefully, the Consulate will give you enough partial credits/points for partially qualifying on multiple requisitos, to give you enough total “points” to approve your application. They are doing this for others on a case-by-case basis, so you will have to check with them on your particular situation. Write back to tell us how it works out.
        Good Luck.
        steve
71. John Garvin says:

    December 1, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Steve please comment on this…. If one person meets the requirements to become a Temporary or Permanent Resident this clause should allow their spouse / partner to gain the same status: “Proof of a any familiar bond with another Temporary or Permanent Resident or a marital (or equivalent) bond with a Mexican”.
    Where I am coming from is say one proves the $1900 or $2400 but the couple does not have double that to include spouse / partner. Should they not be given same status based on the clause above?
    To me the double income or say triple income some or most INM offices are seeking is ridiculous and I do not believe the intent was for a child to prove a $1900 or $2400 income in a month. Now imagine if one had say children. that is 5 x the income requirements.
    So far only the hotline is saying same income for a couple as for one and no multiple required.

    Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      December 2, 2012 at 7:52 am

      Steve here in SMA they are insisting on each family meIber showing the full income requirement. In Chapala, Lic Juan Carlos Galvan the ehad of Immigration, in an interview with the Guadalajara Reporter stated: “the new law allows anyone whose residency permits are in order to request papers for his or her spouse or common law mate, children and parents without each one of the applicants needing to meet individual income requirements. Foreigners who are spouses or parents of Mexican nationals also enjoy certain privileges, including ability to initiate application for temporary or permanent residency condition inside Mexico’s borders”.

      This is what the Hotline states.

      If true why does ones spouse / partner / child need to prove additional income? How would a child have the required income?

      This is very important to a large number of expats. Otherwise, a couple needs to prove $3800 per month and a couple with two children need to prove $7600 per month of income for Temporary Resident. Similarly a couple needs $4800 and a family with two children $9600 for Permanent Resident. And, all these amounts go up 4-5% when the new minimum wages are implemented.

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        December 2, 2012 at 8:31 am

        Morning John,
        Your insights seem spot-on, which is why we are asking readers to write in with comments about how their local INM offices and local Consulates are handling the requisitos for fiscal solvency (financial independence) for dependents.

        For any readers who are not following this aspect of the discussions:
        ~ Do dependents have to show their own assets or own bank accounts – with them as titulars on the account(s)?
        ~ Do dependents have to show equal $$ amounts as the main Residente Temporal or Permanente permit holders?
        ~ Does you local office accept dependents reporting some smaller monthly $$ amounts, equivalent to the ~$500 USD per dependent mentioned in one of the refugee/asylum articles?
        steve
72. Barry says:

    December 1, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    Anita – Back then applying first time for an FM3 in Vancouver it had to be done personally and we had lots of time so it took 3 weeks. You might get it quicker but I would suggest you call them first

    Reply
73. Slash says:

    December 2, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Interesting comments here
    However i have a queston!
    Has anyone not thought of aquiring a passport or Visa in another fashion ?
    Thats what we did

    Reply
74. Anita Farrar says:

    December 2, 2012 at 6:37 pm

    well that was a provocative statement! How did you do that?

    Reply
75. jbbarker1947 says:

    December 2, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    I too would like to know more about “another fashion.”

    Reply
76. John Garvin says:

    December 3, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    In San Miguel total processing time is a minimum of 6 weeks. Approvals are done locally but after finger printing everything documents are sent electronically to Mexico City where a contracted firm prepares your visa.

    Reply
77. John Garvin says:

    December 3, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Wow finally … huge news…. After a long meeting with the SMA Immigration Delegado a lot was learned.

    Visas are processed and approved locally. Following the finger printing stage in 2 plus weeks, your file is sent electronically to Mexico City where an outside firm has been contracted to process your final visa.

    For 3 weeks I have been pursuing the “family” connection to obtain a visa. In other words, not having to prove prove income. It did not make sense that a family consisting of a husband and wife with say 2 children had to prove 4 x the income. And, it turns out I was correct.

    If the application is made at a consulate, only one person has to prove income. The other family members enter Mexico on a FMM. The one applicant upon arriving in Mexico has to finalize their Temporary or Permanent Resident visa within 30 days by going to their local Immigration office. Once that visa is issued, the remainder of the family applies for the same level of visa ie Temporary or Permanent Resident under the “FAMILY” classification. That application can be done locally.

    If you are already in Mexico and have a Inmigrante (FM-2) or Non-Immigrante (FM-3 visa) and require a simple renewal no income proof is required to become a Temporary Resident.

    If you are already in Mexico and want to become a Permanent Resident you can do so by waiting 4 years as a Temporary Resident including time on past visas, or at any time by meeting the financial requirements. If only one has sufficient income / investments etc.That person applies for Permanent Resident. Immediately upon it being issued the other family members … spouse, children, partner can apply for Permanent Resident under the “Family” classification. This is done locally. I repeat, no proof of income required.You must make sure no person will have an expired visa in the process so timing is important.

    For some this is a huge relief.

    Reply
78. Holly says:

    December 3, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    you are providing a huge service and thank you. I have many years of fm3 and last year changed it to fm3 Lucrativa. I was thinking to go Resident Temporal to keep my foreign plates, but looks like I cannot have more than 4 years then I will have to go Permanente. I also don’t want to bump up against an income requirement down the road. I understood your comment about time out of country for citizenship falling under Mexican version of State Dept., but would you know if the allowed time out of Mex is going to be the same 18 months out of 60?
    thanks!

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 3, 2012 at 3:35 pm

      Hi Holly,
      SRE does not seem to have a published standard for how much time is permitted outside of Mexico for the applicants for Naturalized Citizenship. I would hope that an experienced attorney with specialization in this area would know how your local SRE office handles this. The old 18 months out of 60 was an INM standard, not SRE.
      steve

      Reply
79. John Garvin says:

    December 5, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Aduana and Permanent Residency: After several calls to Aduana regarding Permanent Resident talked with Juan Manuel de la Vega. His phone numbers are: 442-227-0013 and 442-227-0100 and extension 62343 for the second number regulations. Aduana is now writing laws to tie in with the new Immigration laws. Aduana, SAT (Hacienda) and Immigration are tying in their computer data bases but will take time. For now, if you have a foreign plated car and a Permanent Resident visa do not worry. In the future if need be, Aduana will send letters to those they want to remove their foreign plated cars from Mexico. Those details have not been finalized. The time frame to remove will not be limited to a few days but a longer period yet to be finalized.

    Reply
80. John Garvin says:

    December 5, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Based on a meeting this morning, with the Delegado at Immigration if you have a
    3 on the back of your Non-immigrante (FM-3) or Immigrante (FM-2) card you must
    become a Permanent resident when that card expires or leave the country and
    start over. The “3” means 3 renewals totaling 4 years.

    If you have a “4” on the back of your card you are to change now to Permanent
    Resident. If not there may be a fine or you may have to leave the country
    because you will have exceeded the 4 years as a Temporary Resident

    No financial information is needed.

    Note, if you are renewing now with a “1” on the back of your card, you renew and
    pay for 2 more years. If you have a “2” on the back of your card, meaning 2
    renewals, you pay for one more years as a Temporary Resident.

    Any time you may move directly yo Permanent Resident without waiting 4 years by
    submitting financials including bank statements and supporting documents. In
    doing so every page must be translated by a CERTIFIED translator.

    Reply
81. Linda Leonard says:

    December 5, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Excellent info. Now…what to do in our case in Zihua: we have the number 4 on our FM3’s and have been told we will be permanent residents, but we must provide 12 months of bank statements at our renewal time (beginning of Jan.). How do we convince them that we don’t need to provide financial information?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 5, 2012 at 7:56 pm

      Linda,
      The INM reserves the right to require proof of financial solvency from any applicant. Zihua´s INM personnel are fully within the rules and the law in asking for proof of solvency.
      steve

      Reply
      • Linda Leonard says:

        December 6, 2012 at 7:59 am

        Thank you for that clarification. We will be happy to comply. Will report how it goes in January!
82. James K. says:

    December 5, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    I wish I would have found this site months ago! Awesome information and huge thanks to all who have contributed.

    We headed to the San Francisco consulate today, only to realize half way there that they closed at noon for visa applications (8am to noon). We’ll head back tomorrow. In the meantime, I’m going to share our situation/ask a few questions and see if there is any insight on us or if we need to gather up anything else before we head in.

    – We will be applying for Resident Temporal and leaving for Puerto Vallarta on January 3rd, 2013. We have never resided in Mexico before. This will be our first application. I’m James and I’m 36 and Ryan is 35.

    – We are a couple (gay) who have lived together for 3 years. Joint checking for 2.5 years, own a car together, have bought and sold a house etc. Are we “familiar” enough?

    – We don’t have the $96,000 in cash or traditional investment assets. However, I sold a company and have payments being made that, when combined with our assets, exceed that amount for one of us. But, again, that’s not cash or an investment that can be easily liquidated. I’m taking copies of the papers from the sale of the business (all done very formally).

    – I believe we qualify under “Using Method of Monthly Deposits of Income or Pension Receipts” –

    (1) I sold my company in June and receive a monthly payment of $4300/month for the remaining balance on the business (this started in July – so 5 months worth with 19 months remaining). The initial down payment of $95,000 shows on June bank statements, so that should be month 1 plus 5 payments….6 months. (and OUCH on the commissions and taxes I had to pay! Yowza…tax on the full amount up front…but I digress…)

    (2) Ryan, is an actor and makes $4760 gross a month ($3301 net). Obviously, the show he has been in for 12 years is not moving with us. However, he has printed a year’s worth of pay stubs to show them. But, knowing that income isn’t coming with us…to me this doesn’t help us??? He will be performing in Puerto Vallarta, but we don’t have finalized contracts or what his income will be, so we can’t show anything there.

    (3) I now work for the company (online company) I sold and will continue to do so part-time when we get to Puerto Vallarta, but I have only been “back” for 3 months, showing a gross income $2400 a month ($2060 net). I don’t have 6 consecutive months of pay stubs to show (I’m going to take my stubs for all of 2012 since I paid myself at the beginning of the year when i owned the company). I have a letter from the new owner stating that I will be employed at this rate.

    – I have copies of 6 months worth of bank statements that have carried end of month balances in that exceed $3,900 every month (current balance is $18,000 – $26,000 as of January 1st).

    – I have a spreadsheet of our budget and how everything is paid for – with money going in the bank – and that we won’t be a burden to Mexico.

    Based on the income from the payments for the company and bank statement balances of at least 3800 at the end of each month, I believe we qualify…and then also on the salary I will receive from working…(even though none of the income is in Ryan’s name…the bank accounts are, so he should be fine??)

    Yes, I’m anxious and nervous. Is it showing? Should I be as nervous as I am right now? haha 🙂 Any thoughts?

    James
    (PS: I will be absolutely sure to report about our experience in San Francisco tomorrow!)

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 5, 2012 at 7:57 pm

      Sounds like you are doing just fine.
      Happy Trails,
      steve

      Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      December 5, 2012 at 8:14 pm

      Do not mention either of you working in Mexico or doing anything in Mexico that generates income unless applying for Permanent Resident which I would recommend. temps I believe can not work.

      Reply
    • James K. says:

      December 6, 2012 at 2:36 pm

      The system is down in San Francisco (but not in San Jose or Sacramento). We met with the Consulate and his only concern was the joint checking account – he had never had to process one like that before. He doesn’t know how they’ll view that (I didn’t understand why that would be an issue, but will hope the computer decides it’s ok). The “income” from the sale of the business is in my name, but covers the amount we need for both of us…again, the issue of not being legally married. He seemed to think we could head that off with a letter of explanation. Feels like trying to get a mortgage!!!

      If Ryan can’t get a the temporary resident visa and has to go on a tourist 6 month, how long does he have to leave the country before he can come back in on another 6 months? Anyone know? I can’t find a consistent answer online – all I see is “it depends on the agent at the border.”

      Reply
      • John Garvin says:

        December 6, 2012 at 3:06 pm

        To get another tourist visa you have to “leave” for 1 minute.Turn in old one and ask for a new one or come back in a minute.
83. Barry says:

    December 6, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Just wanted to point out one significant difference in interpretation of the rules by INM Puerto Vallarta. Although I have the number 3 on the rear of my expiring FM3 which indicates 3 prior concurrent renewals with no fines, they are interpreting that as my previous visa had a term of 1 year they insisted that I had to apply for a 3 year renewal of Residente temporal. They stated as the previous visa term was for 1 year that only qualified me for 1 year. I took their recommendation of a 3 year renewal as with qualification at the end of that term for Residente Permenante.
    It is now 9 working days and I am awaiting visa – I will post details if anything changes when I receive my visa.

    Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      December 6, 2012 at 3:09 pm

      My wife had a client today in SMA with a total of 7 years over 2 FM-3’s. Her client was pre-approved by the Subdirector for Permanent Resident.

      I do not know anyone who has received a visa in their hands since Nov 9, 2012. I am told mine will come in New year and I applied Nov. 12.

      Reply
      • Corinne Allen says:

        January 5, 2013 at 4:42 pm

        in Cozumel…filed the first week of the new regulations (Nov 11) and as of today Jan 3 I’m still waiting to hear…I was on my second FM3 with two years. Was told I could apply for permanent status.
84. James K. says:

    December 6, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    “To get another tourist visa you have to “leave” for 1 minute.Turn in old one and ask for a new one or come back in a minute.”

    Seriously, why am I even bothering with a temporary! Oy.

    Reply
    • 1947jbbarker says:

      December 6, 2012 at 4:58 pm

      Correct me if I am wrong. We would like our Residente Temporal to take our vehicle loaded with our essential possessions. We would also be eligible for the health insurance. There are there are some perks for being 65. Half price bus fares for one.
      On another note: John Garvin and Steven Fry, Yucalandia are doing a superb job Can’t thank you enough . My wife applies tomorrow in San Antonio, Texas. We will post results.

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        December 7, 2012 at 7:31 am

        Good Updates! (and Yes, your insights seem good… though the health insurance does have limits and restrictions: does not cover all illnesses, has significant restrictions on pre-existing conditions, etc* )

        *One diligent and highly precise reader, Pennsy-Al has thoroughly researched the IMSS options from a retired foreigner’s perspective, and he has strong reservations about relying on this insurance/medical coverage: He can describe the details far better than I… which may be good fodder for a new Yucalandia article? Interested?
        steve
    • yucalandia says:

      December 7, 2012 at 7:30 am

      Good Question.
      Do you want to have a US or Canadian plated car while in Mexico? without paying the $250 -$400 permit deposits?

      You can leave and enter Mexico without the hassles of turning in permits – trying to collect refunds on deposits – and then doing the dance again with every trip.

      Using past years on an FM2 or FM3, or combination of them, to pay a one time fee for Permanent Residency and have no future fees at the border or at INM … appeals to some Canadians and Americans.

      Do you own property in the coastal or free zones of Mexico? Do you enjoy paying $400 – $600 a year in perpetual Fideicomiso fees?

      Do you look forward to paying 28% gains taxes on any property you sell?

      Watching how our pennies are spent, does not necessarily take care of the C-notes…

      These are just a few of the reasons some factor into their calculus.
      steve

      Reply
85. John Garvin says:

    December 7, 2012 at 7:57 am

    Important updates on past FM-3 time counting towards Permanent Resident…….. my wife’s client in San Miguel has the word “PERMANENCIA” on the Immigration computer system when checking her client’s history. This word showed up when client reached 5 years and started over on a FM-3. Thanks to the word “PERMANENCIA” they counted total time on current and past FM-3’s after they met with Mireya the Subdirector. She was immediately pre-approved for Permanent Resident and no financials required. Thank goodness and the client’s income is $1100 / month.

    With another facilitator her client was unable to count past time on previous FM-3’s as she had the word “REGULARIZATION” when she was at the end of her five years on a FM-3 and started over.

    Steve may have more clarification.

    Reply
    • 1947jbbarker says:

      December 7, 2012 at 5:05 pm

      Our experience with the Mexican Consulate today:
      We have no previous FM3 or FM2 permits. We were down town by 11:00. We had the passport pictures produced and two copies of her passport pages. We presented the application form, photos and passport copies and six months bank statements to the application desk. The person in charge of that type of applications soon called our number. She immediately went into $95,000.00 bank balance and a letter from the bank. We asked to use the monthly deposit option. She then wanted twelve months but then had to refer to her documentation for clarification. My wife told her it was our understanding that the six months of statements, over $1,900.00 would be accepted. We had to show her the direct deposits. We showed her the bank statements with each of the direct deposit and the months clearly marked. She said she would check if this could be accepted. After some waiting my wife was called to the desk. They took her picture and only finger printed her index fingers. This was clearly the first temporary residency application this office has done. All they wanted was the application, her passport, the bank statements and $36.00USD. My wife has a lamented MEXICO visa permanently affixed to a page in her US passport. It is the one with the red and black header at the top. Everything was completed by 2:00. It was handled in a very courteous and professional way. She was told she 30 days to go to Queretaro and present this to immigration.

      Reply
      • 1947jbbarker says:

        December 7, 2012 at 5:09 pm

        When we return from Queretaro, we will work on getting mine. Hallelujah! We can now exhale.
86. Anita Farrar says:

    December 7, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    Where did you do this? City, country?

    Reply
    • 1947jbbarker says:

      December 7, 2012 at 5:23 pm

      My apology for not stating this before. San Antonio, Texas USA.

      Reply
87. Dirk VanErp says:

    December 8, 2012 at 9:53 am

    We have went through the process to acquire an FM2 Visa (old name). The process IS very straight forward, and not complex. You must contact THE CLOSEST Mexican Consulate, THAT SERVES your area/state of residence. I would strongly advise you have a COLOR printer and SCANNER! They will email you a simple one page, one sided application. VERY basic questions, you type fill out the app, print it, scan it and email it back UNSIGNED. Prior you MUST have a passport photo and have it attached to the application. When it IS returned you must also include COLOR scans of ALL PASSPORTS of the applicants.
    Now the problem YOU will have. There is no more “SCAMMING” Mexico on the income requirements you all did in the past. YOU MUST SHOW $2,400. USD INCOME PER MONTH, PER PERSON, PERIOD !!! Yes you are reading this correct, NO BS! In other words if a family of three wishes to move to Mexico, say a husband, wife AND 3 month old baby, ALL and I MEAN ALL, MUST SHOW $2,400 USD per month income. Let me do the math, $7,200. On top of this, all 3 must show their OWN income/investments, IN THEIR NAME !!! Secondly you will be required to show 12 months of statements, DEMONSTRATING at least $2,400./mo. Deposits AND furnish a sworn notorized statement from your banker/investment house attesting in separate (not group), that the single named applicant has monthly deposits derived from (name ALL sources here) that equal or exceed $2,400.USD per month. THIS MUST BE INVESTMENT INCOME, SS OR A PENSION (s) NOT A CHECK FROM AUNTY EM ! NO running the same money in a circle. You will have to scan and email these as well with your application.

    The consulate will then perform a security/background check, verify all paperwork submitted, AND GIVE you an appointment, that you must ALL appear in person. At this appointment you will be asked all the questions on your initial application, fingerprinted (electronically) then photographed.

    You will then pay $36.00 USD per applicant. They will then place a “VISA” decal in your passport giving you 6 months, and a ONE TIME right to enter Mexico.

    After entering Mexico you MUST report to the nearest Mexican Immigration Office, to the intended place of residence, WITHIN 30 DAYS and complete the application process. Do NOT forget to bring your passports and all original copies to the meeting at the Consulate in the US, they will want them.

    Now some good news, after 2 years, that’s right 2 years you may apply to become a “Citizen”, AND at that point your “FIDEICOMISO” if you have one goes away. Also I must add anyone who tells you dependents get you a 50% reduction or home ownership get you a reduction ARE WRONG !!! Not under the new law! Once more this applies to new applicants, as I understand it, Mexico is handling old residents MUCH differently, and they are being given MUCH greater latitude! AS someone who has spent HUNDREDS of hours reading ALL blogs, from ALL sources, I must say thank you, you were ALL VERY AUTHORITATIVE, BUT ALL WRONG !

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 8, 2012 at 7:59 pm

      Hey Dick,
      Good updates.

      It would be helpful to hear exactly which Mexican Consulate you worked with, because each Consulate is doing things differently.

      I read the 2 things you wrote about what you think are incorrect in our posted information:
      ~ “YOU MUST SHOW $2,400. USD INCOME PER MONTH, PER PERSON, PERIOD !!!” and
      ~ “Also I must add anyone who tells you dependents get you a 50% reduction or home ownership get you a reduction ARE WRONG !!!”

      Fortunately, your information is incorrect on both items.
      I have personally spoken with an INM manager at our local office, as have other talented facilitators in other cities working with their local INM offices, and there clearly are multiple INM offices that are exercising a 1/2-off policy for some applicants who have homes in Mexico. Further the “per person” item where you think that each dependent must show full assets is also only partially true, as there is only one INM office that has been reported as taking this local policy position. These are both areas where the individual Mexican Consulates and INM regional offices are currently exercising varying and different policies. Further, the Mexican Consulates only start the immigration process, they do not control it. Immigration policies are set by INM, not SRE/Consulates.

      Dick,
      Consider for a moment that you have been dealing with a single Mexican Consulate – and then realize that the Mexican Consulates are not part of the same branch of the Mex. Gob. as INM. As written many times on Yucalandia, the Consulates are a part of SRE (similar to the US Stated Dept.)… SRE and the Consulates have nothing to do with INM. INM is a part of SEGOB (making INM closer to the US CIS and ICE – Homeland Security). Just like the US State Department does not dictate Homeland Security CIS immigration policies: SRE does not dictate policy to INM…

      It is the other way around from what you propose: INM formulates and dictates the policies on these matters, and many INM offices are handling your two claimed items exactly oppositely from your claims. I am confident that your SRE-Consulate office acted in good-faith, but their approaches are NOT the last word on INM immigration Requisitos or INM policies.

      We all hope that sometime in the future, SRE and individual Mexican Consulates will start harmonizing their policies with the hoped-for common consistent harmonized INM policies.

      Right now we clearly have significant variations in how the rules are applied – with differences arising between pretty much each INM office, and also between individual Mexican Consulates.

      Again, thanks for the good updates on visa stickers.
      Re Visa stickers and timing: Also note that at least one local INM office is recently requiring the foreign applicants who enter Mexico with the plastic Visa sticker in the passport are being REQUIRED to come to their INM office within just 5 days of entering Mexico. NOT the 30 you describe that fits for most, but not all INM offices.

      So, please, everyone… Foreigners outside of Mexico: Check with both your local Mexican Consulate and your INM office on their site specific requirements. Foreigners inside Mexico: Check with both your local INM office on their site specific requirements.
      Happy Trails,
      steve

      Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      December 8, 2012 at 9:31 pm

      Each family member does not have to prove income. Only one is required. We have talked at length with the head of Immigration for Guanajuato state and the Delegado for San Miguel. One person applies at a consulate and completes the process as much as possible.The rest of the family obtains a visitor visa what we call a FMM. Once the person who was approved on income enters Mexico and obtains their visa the rest of the family can obtain the same visa under the FAMILY classification. Otherwise, a family of say two children and a couple would have to prove 10,000 income per month as of january will all the numbers go up 4 to 5%.
      And, some consulates do vary as to requirements and the actual responses are all over the map. Miami applicants are reporting $1400 for temp resident. Friends in Albuquerque provided bank statements and have no clue how they got 4 years as temp res. but they certainly do not as a couple show anywhere near $4800 / month and as a matter of fact unable to even pay for their mortgage and walking from the house.
      In summary, do not be put off by the financial requirements as many factors are being considered including home ownership inside and outside Mexico.When you call the Hotline they make it clear each consulate and INM office has discretion and from all reports it is being exercised.

      Reply
88. Dirk VanErp says:

    December 8, 2012 at 10:11 am

    I am sorry, in my haste I forgot to mention ALL the people we dealt with in this process at the Mexican Consulate, were very professional, caring and considerate. If you qualify, they are there to GENUINELY help you move to Mexico, I felt very well treated and no hassle, WHATSOEVER! Considering this is a “NEW” process, Mexico is doing a great job!

    VIVA LA MEXICO!

    Reply
89. 1947jbbarker says:

    December 8, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    Dirk
    Where did you do this? City, country?
    Did you get the visa?
    How many dependents you apply for?

    Reply
90. Bettye says:

    December 11, 2012 at 6:46 pm

    Steve,
    I just had a conversation with the officer at the Mexican consulate in Boston who is in charge of issuing visas. He told me we had to show monthly distributions from our investments in order to get our visa…We are currently working and have adequate savings in our retirement funds but didn’t plan to make withdrawals right away as we’ve saved up a year’s worth of cash for expenses. I understood from your previous posts that one option was to have a minimum bank balance. We also own a home in Merida so no rental expenses. Does anyone have experience transitioning from working in the US to achieving “rentista” status permanent residency other than regular deposits to those bank or investment accounts? The balances are certainly over the stated amounts.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 11, 2012 at 7:46 pm

      Hi Bettye,
      I think you are caught in a temporary bureaucratic snafu, where the person you talked with at the Consulate does not know the law.

      Mexican Consulates generally do NOT know Immigration law, because Consulates are a part of a different branch of the Mex. Gov. and they are NOT part of INM. Consulates are a division of SRE (like our State Department) while INM is a division of SEGOB (like Homeland Security).

      Since the person you talked to at the Mexican Consulate in Boston has not been properly trained, I think you need to gently educate them. I think you need to carefully read the sections of our article on the fiscal solvency requirements to qualify for Residente Permanente. Print out a nice copy of the Requisitos for Lineamientos Article 44, http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5276967&fecha=08/11/2012

      As we describe:
      Residente Permanente Income or Deposits or Bank Balance Requirements:
      (Manual/Lineamientos Article 44)
      ~ Documentation of Proof of Financial Independence by Average Bank Balance: Provide the 12 months of original bank statements (plus copies) as proof of income or savings/investments, to show equivalent to twenty five thousand days of the general minimum wage in the District Federal for the previous twelve months…
      … Average Monthly Balance of about $120,000 USD (exactly $1,558,250 pesos) at $13:1 MXN:USD for Residente Permanente.

      or
      Using Method of Regular Deposits of Income or Pension Receipts: (Residente Permanente)
      ~ Have minimum pension income that is the equivalent of five hundred days worth of the current minimum wage in the Federal District, for each of the previous six months – with original and copies of original bank statement. This translates to:
      … about $2,400 USD (exactly $31,165 pesos) a month of regular deposits for one Residente Permanente.

      Make a copy of the header page of the Lineamientos, then go to Article 44 and copy all the pages covering Article 44. BE SURE to go to the Requisitos section of Article 44, and HIGHLIGHT the sections (in Spanish) that specify the Requisitos for Fiscal Solvency:

      =====================================================================================
      Artículo 44. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, de residente temporal a residente permanente:

      Caso en el que se presenta: Aplicable al titular de la condición de estancia de residente temporal que desea residir en territorio nacional de manera permanente y acredita encontrarse en los supuestos señalados en el apartado de criterios de la presente ficha de trámite.
      Fundamento jurídico: Artículos 3, fracciones VI, XI, XXIX; 43, 52, fracciones V y VII; 53, 61, 77, 79, 126, 128, 130 y 131 de la Ley; 1 y 142 del Reglamento.
      Forma de presentación: Formato para solicitar trámite migratorio de estancia.
      Lugar donde se presenta: Oficinas de atención a trámites del Instituto.
      Monto de los derechos: El previsto en el artículo 9 de la Ley Federal de Derechos.
      Plazo máximo de resolución: 20 días hábiles.
      Vigencia de la autorización: Indefinida.
      1 año en caso de menores de 3 años de edad.
      4 años en caso de mayores de 3 años y menores de 18 años de edad.
      Excepciones al artículo 15-A de la LFPA: Se requiere original de todos los documentos que se señalan a continuación:

      Requisitos:
      1. Original y copia del pasaporte, documento de identidad y viaje o documento oficial que haya exhibido para obtener la condición de estancia de residente temporal;
      2. Tarjeta de residente temporal, válida y vigente;
      3. Comprobante del pago de derechos por la recepción y estudio de la solicitud de cambio de condición, de conformidad con lo establecido en la Ley Federal de Derechos;
      4. En caso de sistema de puntos, deberá presentar los documentos que acrediten los indicadores y puntaje mínimo requeridos conforme al acuerdo que al efecto se publique en el Diario Oficial de la Federación;
      5. En el caso de pensionados o jubilados deberán presentar:
      a) Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinticinco mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos doce meses, o
      b) Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con ingresos o pensión mensual libre de gravámenes equivalente a quinientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses, y
      6. En caso de que hayan transcurrido cuatro años desde que cuenta con permiso de residente temporal, deberá indicar expresamente en su solicitud de trámite que solicita el cambio por esta vía.

      Criterios de resolución:
      I. El titular de la condición de estancia de residente temporal podrá cambiar a la condición de residente permanente por:
      a) Sistema de puntos;
      b) Ser jubilado o pensionado que perciba del exterior recursos suficientes que permitan vivir en territorio nacional, o
      c) Que hayan transcurrido cuatro años desde que cuenta con permiso de residente temporal.
      II. En el caso de solicitudes presentadas por haber transcurrido cuatro años como residente temporal, la autoridad migratoria verificará tal circunstancia.
      III. La autoridad migratoria podrá cancelar la condición de residente temporal por las causas señaladas en los artículos 64 de la Ley y 163 del Reglamento.
      Información importante para el usuario:
      – La persona extranjera en caso de resolución positiva, deberá presentar los requisitos correspondientes, para la expedición de documento migratorio por autorización de condición de estancia en términos del artículo 33 de los presentes Lineamientos.
      – La persona extranjera que cambie de residente temporal a residente permanente, deberá continuar informando cualquier cambio de estado civil, cambio de nacionalidad por una diversa a la cual ingresó, domicilio o lugar de trabajo de acuerdo a lo señalado en el artículo 63 de la Ley.
      En caso de no cumplir con dicha obligación se hará acreedor a las sanciones previstas en el artículo 158 de la Ley.
      ==========================================================================================================

      I bolded the sections you need to pay attention to. Note that they might require you to have ALREADY completed 4 years on a Residente Temporal or FM2 or FM3. This fiscal solvency section of the regs is also for people who are retired or retiring… Since you are not planning to work in Mexico, you officially qualify as a Jubilado – retired person…

      You need to specifically HIGHLIGHT Requisitos, Item 5a, that clearly describes the test of using 12 months of bank or investment account balances to prove a minimum ANNUAL average balance as:
      12 months of original bank statements (plus copies) as proof of income or savings/investments, to show equivalent to twenty five thousand days of the general minimum wage in the District Federal for the previous twelve months…
      … Average Monthly Balance of about $120,000 USD (exactly $1,558,250 pesos) at $13:1 MXN:USD for Residente Permanente.

      Because Consulate personnel really do not know the rules, you do not want to humiliate them for being trained poorly. So, tread gently, realize that they would have to read over 450 pages of government legal-ese to know this, and then give them the applicable sections of the official rules from the DOF, with the key passages highlighted, as I listed in BOLD in this extended comment.
      Happy Trails,
      steve

      Reply
91. Bettye says:

    December 11, 2012 at 9:16 pm

    Thanks Steve,
    That was how I had read it from your earlier posts…The whole change in language is especially confusing when describing the new categories…We want to get the equivalent of the old FM2–so it seems the consulate gives you a visa temporal which we then have 30 days to convert to residente permanente?? if I’m correct. Also, eventually we may want to set up a Mexican corporation to work in Mexico but it seems that can be changed at a later date with a notorio handling the process. The consulate employee also told me he is the one to sign off on the household goods paperwork as well so all approvals are completely up to him apparently—-a bit scary–but did say the process is short (2 days or so).

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 12, 2012 at 6:58 am

      Hi Bettye,
      Yes, you now have a good grasp of things.
      steve

      Reply
92. Josephine Carlson says:

    December 12, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Hi Steve,
    Ive been searching and searching and cannot find an answer – Im a Danish citizen going to Mexico in the beginning of next year and as a tourist I get up to 180 days – before these 180 days are up is it possible for me to exit the country to then enter again for another 180 days?
    Kind regards,

    Josephine

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 12, 2012 at 4:42 pm

      Hi Josephine,
      Yes, you definitely can go to a border, and without leaving Mexico, you can turn in your “old” Visitante permit and you can get a fresh “new” Visitante permit within minutes of surrendering your “old” Visitante permit.
      steve

      Reply
      • Dermot Kenny says:

        December 18, 2012 at 2:53 pm

        Correct me if I am wrong but the i80 days only applies to U>S and Canadian citizens. I came in on an Irish passport one time and was only given 90 days as I was told this is what Europeans are eligible for. Another time I also came in on my Canadian passport and only received 90 days. When I questioned this with INM I was told it is at the discretion of the immigration officer who meets you when you land at the airport to grant the amount of days you are allowed to stay in Mexico as a visitor
      • yucalandia says:

        December 18, 2012 at 6:06 pm

        Dermot,
        All visitors in Mexico on Visitante visas are allowed up to 180 days, at the discretion of the INM agent handling the application. Calderon previously requested that INM agents automatically give ALL visitors the max of 180 days, but not all agents follow this guidance.
        steve
93. John Garvin says:

    December 13, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    In talking with the Hotline today it was discovered the investment clause allowing for a visa is only tied in to a point system. They stated the point system should be ready mid-January. Until that time, only 4 years on a visa OR a pension sourced income of $2400 a month will allow you to become a Permanent Resident.

    Reply
    • Joe says:

      December 15, 2012 at 5:55 am

      My application for permanent residence based on points was accepted 23 November: it has now moved to the “ha sido clasificado” stage.

      Whether they will slow the process until the details of the point system are published remains to be seen: if they feel the application is strong, they may go ahead with it anyway, there being analogs to the point system contained in the law detailing the various accelerated paths to citizenship.

      Reply
    • Ric Hoffman says:

      January 29, 2013 at 10:20 am

      Mexconnect post: http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=185244#185244

      Two other applications were accepted today, one based on 500 times daily wage for 6 months and the other based on 25000 times daily wage over 12 months average. As with my application both were submitted prior to their natural expiration date. Their original cards expire sometime in August 2013.

      Reply
    • Nicole says:

      February 4, 2013 at 5:49 pm

      I did not understand your last post. Are you saying that, without a PENSION income, a person w/out having lived here 4 years cannot get a permanent residency visa? Frankly, I thought it had been determined that NOBODY could get a permanent residency visa w/out first living here on a “temporary residency” basis, for at least 4 years. If I am not correct, I wonder why MX would allow pensioners early permanency and would deny, say, multi-millionaires without a pension (or other source of MONTHLY income) the same status. ?

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        February 4, 2013 at 6:03 pm

        Nicole,
        Please re-read the section on Proof of Financial Independence for Residency Applicants. . This section describes the personal fiscal solvency requirements for all types of applicants, including: Retirees, people with pension income, people with substantial savings, people with sufficient monthly income, people with real estate in Mexico, etc etc.

        When re-reading this section, pay attention to the section describing how people with over $125,000 USD in average annual savings can qualify for Residente Permanente – with no prior residency and no pension income. Individual Consulates and some INM offices are adding an extra requirement that the applicant have 1 or 2 years of prior residency, but both the 2011 INM law and the Lineamientos both allow people with no prior residency in Mexico to qualify immediately for Permanent Residency.
        steve
      • Nicole says:

        February 4, 2013 at 6:46 pm

        Thank you. I am familiar with the financial requirements, although I did not know that the exchange rate had changed to the point that, what was once a $96,000 requirement is now up to $125,000. (???) What I did not understand was this post. (Maybe I read it out of context, i.e., without having seen the question to which it responded.)

        “December 13, 2012 at 2:26 pm

        “In talking with the Hotline today it was discovered the investment clause allowing for a visa is only tied in to a point system. They stated the point system should be ready mid-January. Until that time, only 4 years on a visa OR a pension sourced income of $2400 a month will allow you to become a Permanent Resident.”
      • yucalandia says:

        February 4, 2013 at 7:13 pm

        Nicole,
        Based on your comments and your questions, you are not familiar with the financial requirements.

        Please re-read the section on Proof of Financial Independence for Residency Applicants. Click on the link.

        Read how Resident Permanente requires roughly $125,000 in average savings, while Residente Temporal requires $100,000. There is no exchange rate issue.

        You quote a reader’s post/comment as if it must have legitimate information. Please realize that posts by various readers have no requirements for accuracy, precision, or substance (as we do not edit posts to correct their factual or logical errors). The post is overly narrow in its explanation of the INM Law and INM Lineamientos. This poster is describing their personal understanding, which does not actually fit either the Law, nor the Lineamientos, nor reality at many INM offices.
        steve

94. Pingback: Recent Updates to Yucalandia | Surviving Yucatan

95. James K. says:

    December 17, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Update from San Francisco.

    It’s been 2 weeks since first applying for our Temporary Residency permit.

    Reminder: we are a same-sex couple with more than enough assets, they were unsure how to divide a joint checking account between the two of us, even though we met the requirements from pay stubs and a monthly payment from a company sale.

    We have been down there twice. The first visit, the consulate asked us to redo out letter of intent and spell out exactly how we were going to support ourselves and to bring notarized letters from each other as to the division of assets (50/50). We did all this, even had out LOIs notarized. We went back last Monday to turn them in and were told that all of the originals were fine and that we didn’t need these new letters. LOL. We stayed surprisingly light and happy through that. Although, I could have saved $40 in notary fees. It was the same guy, the actual consulate. He showed us an email he sent to Mexico City for clarification of our situation, detailing everything with great accuracy and understanding (he poured through all of our papers and found it all).

    Today. We got our response. He responded to an email and said he got a response and will call us later today to discuss the details and set up a time for our fingerprints. Sounds like an approval to me!

    I saw someone else’s comment above and wanted to reiterate it. At no time did we try to tell him how to do his job or get visibly frustrated with him. He had the massive document open on his screen and kept scrolling. Realizing he was left to interpret this at such a local level, we were cautious in how we approached him. We would make suggestions as though they came from him “Well, if they can’t divide the checking account, do you think they could apply it to one of us and then use the company sale payments for the other?”

    Reply
96. Lisa Friesn says:

    January 4, 2013 at 10:43 am

    My husband and I currently have FM3 No Immigrante Lucrativas. We received them in March 2010. They have a “2” on the back of them. We live in Mexico full time. We own our own home but the purchase price was far less than the $195K US. We own our own business, which is completely legal and we pay taxes but we do not employ any Mexicans. Our long term goal was to be able to provide employment but at this time it is not possible. All our products are sourced from within Mexico so in the long run we are providing employment but obviously not in the way the law requires. We are in our early 40’s and do not have any pension income. We have money in the bank but not $100K. If I am reading between the lines correctly, as we don’t qualify financially we will have to close our business and leave the country. Our only option is to come in on the 180 tourist visas which does not allow us to work. If we can’t work, we can’t stay. Am I correct or is there something I am missing?

    Reply
    • Lisa Friesen says:

      January 9, 2013 at 10:38 am

      Any information would be appreciated.

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        January 9, 2013 at 3:40 pm

        Hi Lisa,
        We have roughly 60 pages of information on immigrating to Mexico and visiting Mexico in just this article.

        What information do you want? Can you ask a specific question, or maybe your entry is robot-spam?
        steve
97. Linda Leonard says:

    January 7, 2013 at 2:36 pm

    I posted in November and December about our experience here in Zihuatanejo, but I will re-cap now so everyone will get the whole story. My husband and I have had our FM3’s since 2009. We were due to renew in January. In November we went to the Migracion here in Zihua to see what they would tell us. We were told we qualified to be Permanent Residents- bring copies of 1st page of passport, photos, and 6 months of bank statements. We began to worry about the bank statements since we do not have the necessary income to qualify. During the next few weeks we heard many different stories from several people’s visits to Migracion. I decided to check again in December, just before they closed for Christmas break. We were told we needed 1 year of temporary resident status. Bring 3 months of bank statements, same passport copy and photos. Very interesting. Our Mexican friends have a friend who works with Migracion. We were taken by our friends to see her. She said we certainly qualify for Permanent Resident status. She didn’t know what we would need to take with us, since that is not the area that she works in.
    Well, today was the day! We went to do whatever they would tell us to do. We took our passport copies and photos. I had a file folder with bank statements for the past year, also bank statements showing investments, many different forms proving ownership of our condo here in Zihua- I felt I had everything anyone might ask for). We were told….congratulations! This is the last time you will have to come here and the last time you will have to pay!! You will be Residentes Permanentes. We signed the forms she printed for each of us, handed over our passport copies and photos. Went to the bank to pay the 1000 pesos/each fee, and the 3815 pesos/each cost for our status, and returned to Migracion. They did not ask for any bank statements at all. Whew! She says our apps go to Acapulco for acceptance. They will call us then, we will return to do fingerprints and provide signatures for our cards, then it will take about a month for our cards to arrive. Very simple. Hopefully all will go very well for us from this point on.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      January 7, 2013 at 2:45 pm

      Hooray !

      Do you mind telling us if you actually met any of the individual formal financial requirements for Permanent Residence, or did they seem to consider a combination of real estate, some pension/Social Security, and some savings enough in aggregate to qualify you?

      Without revealing too much personal information, it would be good to hear any of the specifics of your typical monthly deposits etc you choose to share.
      THANKS for the very good update !

      I am confident that other readers really appreciate the information you have shared.
      steve

      Reply
      • JRG says:

        January 7, 2013 at 2:55 pm

        This is the process since Nov 9 in SMA. If 4 years no financials are required. Slowly those offices insisting on financials after 4 years are learning the process. Chapala appears to finally to have started this practice and follow the law.
        Until a point system is implemented, which is to be later this month, home ownership, investments education means nothing. Now some offices may have considered this but call the Hotline and they will confirm this. Only pension sourced income with bank statements, letters from pension source and both translated are to be accepted for Permanent Resident until point system implemented..
    • Linda Leonard says:

      February 21, 2013 at 2:04 pm

      Continuing on…. It has been about 7 weeks since I wrote the above account of our experience, and since we submitted our applications for permanent resident. As it says above, they said they would call us to return to do fingerprints. Well no one called, so yesterday we checked regarding our status. They said “we have been waiting for you to come in to do your fingerprints”. ok- so no one is going to call us. They said we should have checked back in about a week later. hmmm So now we have been fingerprinted. They say our application is totally approved, and we should call in about 2 weeks to see if our document (card, I think) is ready for us. Will report again then.

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        February 21, 2013 at 4:12 pm

        nice.
      • Linda Leonard says:

        March 12, 2013 at 2:35 pm

        Well we both have our Residente Permanente cards. Just over 2 weeks since we were fingerprinted. I gave it a couple of days beyond the 2 weeks, and both cards were there. So all in all- not a bad process at all.
98. Linda Leonard says:

    January 7, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    I guess I wasn’t very clear. My biggest relief was that they didn’t ask for ANYTHING financial at all. We provided 3 months of bank statements when we applied for our 1st FM3’s. At that time, 2009, we need 12,000 pesos per month each for income, and because we own our condo, that requirement was reduced by 50%. Today, for Permanent Resident, the amount required is much higher, which created our concerns. I had read, here, that proof of finances should not be required for people who already have FM2 or FM3. But both times we went to Migracion, it seemed that they WERE going to required that from us. We were so happy they didn’t require any financial information at all, so I didn’t need any of the documents I was prepared to hand over.

    Reply
99. Brad Johnson says:

    January 7, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    My wife and I went to the consulate in Phoenix on December 21, 2012, to apply for Residencia Temporal, during a holiday visit to relatives and a storage unit raid. We had been unable to schedule an appointment, or to get any response by telephone or email, prior to our return. We were advised when we arrived that they only schedule appointments for visa applications on Wednesdays, and that January 2, 2013, was the next day an appointment was available. We were further advised that the individual handling these applications was very busy, and they were unable to say exactly when our second appointment (the ‘biometric’ one, I assume fingerprints) could be scheduled. It became clear we would have to stay there until mid-January at the earliest, which was not practical (we have to pay rent in Puerto Vallarta January 14), so we returned on new ‘tourist visas’ (FMM’s, I guess).

    Do you think we can avail ourselves of the somewhat more friendly procedures in San Antonio or Chicago, or must we deal with an extremely inconvenient process in Phoenix (our last residence before PV)? We are likely to be permanent tourists rather than budget three or four weeks in Phoenix motels for the privilege of making a significant contribution to the Mexican economy as temporary residents (income requirements are not a problem). And I suspect we are not the only US citizens facing this choice, much as I do not look forward to the three-day drives to AZ each 180 days. Or do you think there might be a little greater consistency and/or convenience in consular procedures June/July?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      January 7, 2013 at 11:33 pm

      Hi Brad,
      Good good information and questions.

      I certainly hope and expect that the Phoenix consulate will get better organized by June or July. Clearly, the Chicago consulate has been handling cases the same day. Is there a cheap Southwest Airlines flight option available for you in and out of Chicago? Maybe using Midway?

      If you have sufficient assets and pension income, you may qualify immediately for Permanent Residency at some Consulates, which would eliminate any future hassles, by having Permanent Residency, after just a single consulate visit in the USA. ??? In effect, go “shopping” for a Mexican consulate in the USA that accepts and processes applications quickly, has an airport with cheap flights, and that is approving Permanent Residency card application for people with no prior INM permits. ???
      steve

      Reply
100. Terri Rasmussen says:

     January 8, 2013 at 12:29 pm

     Wow…this is all very confusing to me. My husband and I have lived in Mexico for more than 5 years. We currently have the status No Immigrante Rentistas and our visas are on the fourth and final renewal. What happens next? Do we have to leave the country and start all over to get new Temporary Resident visas? Can we use our five years as FM3’s to apply for permanent resident status without leaving the country. Would the latter force us to get rid of our US plated vehicle?
     Do we have to wait until 30 days before our visas expire to make the change or can we apply whenever we want to?
     Terri

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 8, 2013 at 6:16 pm

       Hi Terri,
       You need to speak with your local INM office. Some INM offices are welcoming people in your position to apply for Residente Permanente, a few others have not. Our local office is encouraging one group of expats in your situation to apply early for changing to Residente Permanente, abandoning their current No Inmigrante permits before they expire.

       In any case, ONLY expats here on visitor permits must leave Mexico to apply for Temporary or Permanent Residency. As a current No Inmigrante, you would only have to leave Mexico if you allow your INM permit to expire before officially starting your application for a new Residency permit.

       Re foreign plated cars and Permanent Residency: It is becoming clearer (but not finalized) that Aduana is considering a plan where the new Residente Permanentes who have foreign plated cars, will allow the new Permanent Residents to keep their car for a year, and then send them a letter describing how much longer they can keep the car in Mexico. None of this is finalized, and hopefully we will clearly know Aduana’s final plan this month on how to handle this issue.
       steve

       Reply
101. John Calypso says:

     January 9, 2013 at 1:26 pm

     Here in Puerto Escondido, Oaxaca we received our NUT numbers and passwords by submitted proper documents as described here:
     http://www.vivaveracruz.com/blog/

     We now wait about 20 days for our cards – Your information here was helpful.
     Thank You

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 9, 2013 at 5:37 pm

       Great!

       Did you apply for Permanent Residency? Did you have to show financial documents? or was this a simple renewal/extension of an FM3/FM2 over to Residente Temporal? What requirements did they give you, if it is not too personal to describe?

       Now that the INM offices have opened after the Holiday break: There have been a slew of expat reports from across Mexico describing how people are getting both Permanent Residency and Temporary Residency, shifting from FM2s and FM3s, working and Rentista, without having to show financial documents, and without having to meet the specific Personal Fiscal Solvency requirements…. I have made comments on this at the top of this article.

       Give us a shout when you actually get your new Residency Cards!
       steve

       Reply
102. Lisa Friesen says:

     January 11, 2013 at 9:52 am

     My husband and I currently have FM3 No Immigrante Lucrativas. We received them in March 2010. They have a “2″ on the back of them. We live in Mexico full time. We own our own home but the purchase price was far less than the $195K US. We own our own business, which is completely legal and we pay taxes but we do not employ any Mexicans. Our long term goal was to be able to provide employment but at this time it is not possible. All our products are sourced from within Mexico so in the long run we are providing employment but obviously not in the way the law requires. We are in our early 40′s and do not have any pension income. We have money in the bank but not $100K. If I am reading between the lines correctly, as we don’t qualify financially we will have to close our business and leave the country. Our only option is to come in on the 180 tourist visas which does not allow us to work. If we can’t work, we can’t stay. Am I correct or is there something I am missing?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 11, 2013 at 11:02 am

       Hi Lisa,
       You understand the strict legal aspects well. I think you might be missing 2 salient practical aspects of how the INM systems are actually working.

       1. As described in our latest post https://yucalandia.com/2013/01/09/january-2013-updates-to-immigration-requirements-for-getting-residency-in-mexico-or-immigrating-to-mexico/ many many expats across Mexico who are simply renewing/extending their current FM3 as the new Residente Temporal, are not being required to show financial documents. There are already examples of people with working FM3’s in your same position who have been approved and just received their Residente Temporal cards from INM. One gentleman was required to sign a simple letter verifying that his “financial situation had not changed.” I suggest you put this statement into your request letter when you apply to the INM for your new temporary residence permit.

       2. For the people who have FM3’s and FM2’s who are being asked for financial documents, and they meet none of the individual requirements for proving personal Fiscal Solvency, then their INM offices are generally accepting an aggregate of homeownership, savings balances, and income to qualify these people.

       Hopefully, your local office will use their legally mandated discretion/latitude to approve you, just as many others across Mexico are being approved, without meeting the specific requirements. Can you get reliable information about how your office is doing it?

       If recent information on your local INM makes it appear that you will have problems with the local policy enforcemnt: Sometimes if there are problems it can really help to use a local facilitator or local lawyer (individuals that your local INM agents know and trust and who have a TRACK RECORD OF SUCCESSFUL APPLICATIONS under the new law) to make your application – as the local INM agents trust them and will approve things they may not approve for Do It Yourself people ??

       steve

       Reply
103. John Calypso says:

     January 11, 2013 at 1:16 pm

     Steve – Yes we are filing for Residente Permanete. Here in Puerto Escondido they did require financial statements (bank or savings) – and in Spanish. They also advised us that my having only one year with a FM3 was insufficient time. But because we had very good looking financials and my wife has met the 4 year prior possession of the FM3, they were going to process it anyway. I go into some detail at my Blog.

     We originally used your request letter (the one that passed there in Merida) it was rejected. They spent a lot of time writing a letter for us.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 11, 2013 at 3:45 pm

       Hi John,
       Good stuff.

       We appreciate you finding our information and content useful to use on your site. As we note at the bottom of every one of our pages, please cite our website and the specific webpage for each item you have copied from Yucalandia, and posted on your blog.

       Here’s a link you can cut and paste into your site to give proper attributions:

       ~ Current Rules and Procedures for Immigration ~ Immigrating to, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico

       
       Thanks,
       steve

       Reply
104. rubygeorgina says:

     January 13, 2013 at 4:28 pm

     Another question: I will renew my visa before my partner. I read somewhere that Mexico recognizes common law partners and so wonder if once I am approved if my partner can tag along with regard to financial requirements. OR does he have to provide independent means of $2500 USd per month. Thank you.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 13, 2013 at 8:44 pm

       ruby,
       “Partner” is a sufficiently generic term that I have no idea what it means in your case. If you want to have your partner qualify as a concubino or concubina, I suggest you contact an immigration attorney for the specifics. The 2011 INM law does approve concubinos for Residency, but I do not know the legal requirements for officially proving a preexisting/ongoing concubino relationship.
       steve

       Reply
105. rubygeorgina says:

     January 13, 2013 at 4:30 pm

     Think my first question didn’t get posted so excuse me while I repost. I have FM2 with 2 proroga and am thinking of moving directly to Permanente.. I believe I can do this with out renewing as Temporal. Correct? But that likely means I cannot keep my foreign plated vehicle. I have been unable to find rulings on this subject. And wonder if it becomes illegal 1) how long before it needs to be removed? and 2) would I be able to insure it in Jalisco should I decide to keep it?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 13, 2013 at 8:44 pm

       previously answered. I did not see your post until just now, and our blog host has things set up so that we approve posts before they appear.

       Reply
106. rubygeorgina says:

     January 14, 2013 at 7:30 am

     Thanks! Going to a seminar at the Lake Chapala Society this coming Friday, January 18th. Information session being presented by the Jefe of the INM office in Chapala to help clear up confusion. Will let you know what I find out as I am sure it will be helpful information to all.

     Reply
107. Merlenna says:

     January 14, 2013 at 4:53 pm

     Question, lets say someone does not qualify for a Residente Temporal and they have a foreign plated vehicle. Can they be allowed to leave the country by driving over the border every 6 months indefinitely or is there a limit ?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 14, 2013 at 9:06 pm

       Hi Merlenna, There is no limit. You would simply stop and cancel the permit every time, and then refile the paperwork for a new permit every time, and give Banjercito a $300 – $400 deposit every time, and file for refunds on the prior deposits every time.

       Reply
108. MrBuzz says:

     January 14, 2013 at 9:56 pm

     I haven’t read all comments. But…I was at the Progreso INM office today, Jan 14, and they are definitely looking at bank statements, requiring 6 months of statements, but only looking for deposits to the account to show income. I have had an FM3 for one year and an FM2 for 2 years…and the only thing I could do was renew to get a Temporary visa. I should have been eligible for a Permanent visa but I don’t have income…I have money….I’m too young for pension or Social Security….my bank statements show well over a couple hundred thousand dollars sustained balance…but no deposits. Even though I pointed out the balances on the statements the girl told me that deposits are all they are looking at and showed me an INM document that states the same. I also own 5 properties in the Yucatan but they told me that owning property does not count towards eligibility. I was previously told that owning property did put you in the line for Permanent status.
     The only good thing…and this remains to be seen…is that she told me that with the new Temporary visa I don’t have to start over….next year I will have over four years here and then nothing will matter. She actually said that…after four years they don’t look at statements at all. So…nothing I did or “learned” today made any sense at all! I’ll have to wait until next year to see where I go with my Temporary visa and how this new process has evolved after the learning curve.
     Lesson for everyone…bank statements need to SHOW DEPOSITS!! Next year I will be transferring money back & forth from my checking to my savings accounts so that my statements show deposits.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 15, 2013 at 7:15 am

       Hi Buzz,
       The clerks in Progreso are definitely confused, but some of it makes sense to us.

       If you read the Proof of Financial Independence for Residency Applicants section above, INM does not currently consider property ownership when determining if you meet the Personal Fiscal Solvency requirement for Residente permanente.

       You might want to us a little caution in moving money “back & forth from my checking to my savings accounts so that my statements show deposits“. When gringos do this, it causes the INM to require official NOTARIZED letters on bank stationary, for all future gringo applicants. from the US banks certifying that the income is coming from pensions or from social security – just to keep a few gringos from cheating. Other INM offices are requiring these Notarized letters from the USA because of gringos doing a money dance between their personal accounts. I would personally not like to see the already slightly confused Progreso clerks start adding even more requirements just to get gringos to follow the rules on pension and SSI income.

       Fortunately, it will be all good for you next year, with 4 years of prior residency completed.
       steve

       Reply
109. Holly says:

     January 15, 2013 at 7:45 am

     Puerto Vallarta. My husband held an fm3 for 4 or 5 years and then last year received an fm3 Lucrativa. He was given a new laminated card with 1 on the back. He has been denied Permanente and we have had to pay over 4800 pesos for a 2 year renewal at which time he can convert to Permanente. I was a year behind getting my fm3 and also have Lucrativa, however, mine has a 3 on the back of my card so I will be given Permanente status as I was told yesterday. the fee for me is 3800 + 1000 for an investigation fee. This is so crazy since he has more time than I do, which they admitted to our facilitator, but said “those are the new rules”. If his fm3 did not expire in 2 days we would try perhaps to apply in Guanajuato as we own a house there also, but alas we are out of time and see no other options. Your thoughts?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 15, 2013 at 12:38 pm

       Holly,
       I think it is in all how you count things. You have 3 years completed on your current permit. Your hubby has only one year completed on his current permit. You have more seniority…

       Whomever advised your husband to change to a new different INM permit last year, while the Residente Permanente was coming in a year, (since the original law was published in May 2011), did not give your husband the advice that would get him to Residente Permanente by the shortest path. Your facilitator simply did not read the 2011 law carefully or did not read it at all. The law was worded in specific ways 19 months ago, that we were advising people that they would not be allowed to sum / aggregate years of INM permits from different INM permits under the new system. The law was clearly worded… Maybe it is time to find a facilitator who studies the law in a timely way, and knows the INM rules?

       Unfortunately, I think that boat sailed for your husband, when he chose to change INM permit types last year.

       We are pleased that they granted your Residente Permanente a year earlier than the period described in the law.
       Did they require either of you to produce financial documents proving personal Fiscal Solvency for each of you?
       steve

       Reply
       • Rancho Sol y Mar says:

         January 17, 2013 at 4:38 pm

         We did not have to provide financials.

         “Worry is praying for what you don’t want”.
       • markemmer says:

         February 17, 2013 at 1:03 pm

         Steve, I just noticed this post of yours, and think it bears correcting — the part about Holly getting her RP a year earlier than the period described in the law. She stated that she had a 3 on the back of her FM3. That is Prorroga 3, which is her third extension. Her first year FM3 had no number at all on the back. Her first year plus three extensions is 4 years total, which is why she was eligible for RP. (My first FM3 had no number on the back, my first renewal had Prorroga 1, etc.)

         That doesn’t completely explain why her husband’s new FM3 had Prorroga 1 on it, unless he had five years on the previous one and they gave him credit for the difference between four and five years. That’s pure speculation that his previous card was Prorroga 4 and that they count in such a manner.

         In any event, her RP seems to be completely by the book.

         Mark
110. yucalandia says:

     January 16, 2013 at 7:52 pm

     Nancy and Linda,
     You have been commenting on a very early post/comment by Lic. Solomon Freimuth, so, your posts are showing up at the beginning of this article’s Comment section under Solomon’s original comment.

     Jump to the top of the Comments on this article to see what you two have been writing.
     steve

     Reply
111. Merlenna says:

     January 17, 2013 at 9:13 am

     We are in the US now and this is what we were emailed from the Embassy as requirements to apply from a tourist visa to a Residente Temporal (Old FM3)

     Mr. Brian Higby,
     Let me inform to you that accordingly the new immigration law, there are not FM3 status any longer, if you apply for Temporary Residency, the requirements are the following:
     REQUIREMENTS TO OBTAIN A MEXICAN VISA
     FOR TEMPORARY RESIDENCY
     (TO STAY IN MEXICO FOR OVER 180 DAYS AND UP TO 4 YEARS)

     I.- VALID PASSPORT, ORIGINAL AND A COPY
     II.- ONE COLOR PHOTO PASSPORT SIZE, FRONT VIEW, NO GLASSES, WHITE BACKGROUND
     III.- IF APPLICANT IS NOT A U.S CITIZEN, NEEDS TO PROVE LEGAL STATUS IN THE UNITED STATES
     IV.- SUBMIT DOCUMENTS, PROVING ANY OF THE FOLLOWING ASSUMPTIONS:
     a.- PROOF OF ECONOMIC SOLVENCY
     1.- ORIGINAL AND A COPY OF INVESTMENTS OR BANK STATEMENTS WITH A MINIMUN BALANCE OF 95,500 DOLLARS IN THE LAST TWELVE MONTHS; OR
     2.- ORIGINAL AND A COPY OF DOCUMENTS SHOWING A MINIMUM MONTHLY INCOME OR RETIREMENT PENSION OF 1,900 DOLLARS AFTER TAXES IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS; OR
     b.- SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH WITHIN MEXICO’S INTERNATIONAL WATERS;
     c.- AN INVITATION LETTER FROM A PRESTIGIOUS MEXICAN ORGANIZATION (PUBLIC OR PRIVATE INSTITUTION);
     d.- BY FAMILY UNIT (b, c, d APPLICANTS MUST CONTACT THE CONSULAR OFFICE TO INQUIRE ABOUT SPECIFIC DOCUMENTS REQUIRED IN EACH CASE)
     e.- OWNERSHIP OF REAL ESTATE IN MEXICO.- ORIGINAL AND A COPY OF PROPERTY TITLE (ESCRITURA PUBLICA OTORGADA ANTE NOTARIO PUBLICO), WITH A MINIMUN VALUE OF 2,500,000 PESOS
     V.- APPLICATION FORM
     IV.- FEE: 36.00 DOLLARS FOR THE CONSULAR VISA
     THE CONSULAR REPRESENTATION WILL ISSUE A ONE-ENTRY VISA GOOD FOR 180 DAYS. BEARER MUST PRESENT IT AT THE PORT OF ENTRY ALONG WITH HIS/HER PASSPORT, AND WILL REQUEST INMIGRATION FORM FMM (FORMA MIGRATORIA MULTIPLE) WICH WILL BE SUBMITTED TO THE INM (INSTITUTO NACIONAL DE MIGRACION) WITHIN 30 DAYS TO OBTAIN THE TEMPORARY RESIDENT CARD.
     THIS STATUS DOES NOT ALLOW TO WORK IN MEXICO WITHOUT THE SPECIFIC AUTHORIZATION FROM THE INSTITUTO NACIONAL DE MIGRACION (INM).

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 17, 2013 at 9:50 am

       Hi Merlenna,
       This is very good information.

       It fits with our previous understandings, but we had not seen the official $30 consular fee, and their information requests for scientific research, etc, fits the reported plan for INM to start using a points system, where an applicant does not have to meet any single requirement, but if the applicant partially meets a variety of requirements, INM can create an aggregate score that qualifies the applicant.
       Which city’s Consulate issued this? or did it come from the Mexican Embassy in Washington DC?

       Thanks!
       steve

       Reply
       • Merlenna says:

         January 23, 2013 at 5:34 pm

         Well we just got word today we do not qualify for a residente temporal. New information we were told is the Income Tax reports are what they look at, not just income in bank statements., even though we had given the last 12 months of statements. So since we do not make enough income/month to qualify, we need to leave the country every 6 months. So this is good information for anyone to know if they want to apply for a Temporary Resident Visa. Hope it helps some not have to go through what we did.
       • yucalandia says:

         January 23, 2013 at 8:14 pm

         Good Update.

         Which Mexican Consulate has added the extra requirement for income tax statements?

         There are reports that INM will publish the details of the new “Points System” this month. The “Points System” will allow some people to qualify using a combination of partially meeting multiple requirements. Some INM offices are already using this system, to consider a combination of: savings, property, whether your professional qualifications could aid Mexico, and monthly income to qualify applicants for residency. You might qualify under the new “Points System”, so stay tuned, and a new window of opportunity may open for you.
         steve
112. Barry says:

     January 17, 2013 at 4:55 pm

     New procedure change:
     In former years we would monitor our Case Number on the internet to see when our new visa was ready. I have been monitoring the file on the internet and there has been no change from the last entry on December 12 when we had to go in and be finger printed.
     However today January 17 we received a bilingual Spanish/English email (see below) to our personal email address to let us know that our Temporary Resident Visa was ready for pickup and to suggest that we did not need to line-up but just to check directly at the window. What great customer service they are providing in Puerto Vallarta!
     FYI – original documentation stamped November 26. Went back for fingerprints December 12 and today is the first news. I will let you know what happens when we go to pick up the new Visa tomorrow.

     Hola, Buenos Días.
     Le informo que ya puede recoger su credencial dentro del horario de atención (LUNES A VIERNES DE 10:00 AM A 1:00 PM).
     *Pasar directamente a la ventanilla de ENTREGA DE DOCUMENTOS. (No necesita tomar turno)
     Saludos.
     ***************************************************************************************
     Hi, Good morning.
     Please be informed that the new forms are ready to pick up (MONDAY TO FRIDAY 10:00 AM TO 1:00 PM).
     * PICK UP WINDOW (Don’t take a number)
     Yazmín Alejandra López Rodríguez
     Coord. de Unidad en Áreas de Servicios Migratorios.
     Subdelegación Federal del INM en Jalisco
     Tel. 322 22 4 76 53, 22 4 79 70
     Red de Voz. 60705
     ylopez@inami.gob.mx
     De conformidad con los artículos 13, 14 y 63 de la Ley Federal de Transparencia y Acceso a la Información Pública Gubernamental y 51 de la Ley de Seguridad Nacional la información contenida en este mensaje electrónico o anexo al mismo podrá ser considerada como reservada o confidencial, por lo que su uso, reproducción, difusión o distribución indebidos ya sea total o parcial estan estrictamente prohibidos si se recibe esta comunicación por error, eliminar de su computadora el mensaje o cualquier documento adjunto, absténgase de efectuar su reproducción, difusión o distribución, notifique esta situación al remitente, en caso de incumplimiento, además de las responsabilidades administrativas puede estar sujeto a sanciones del orden civil o penal que procedan conforme a lo previsto en los artículos 210,211,211 BIS,211 bis 1,211 bis 7,214 fracción 4 del Código Penal Federal y demás relativos y aplicables de la legislación federal, la información de este correo así como la contenida en los documentos que se adjuntan pueden ser objeto de solicitudes de acceso a la información.
     Instituto Nacional de Migración.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 17, 2013 at 6:54 pm

       Very cool !

       Reply
113. Barry says:

     January 18, 2013 at 2:29 pm

     Today we went in to the counter and straight away they located our new visa cards and we signed for them and were out of there in 10 minutes. They are valid until December 2015.

     Reply
114. 1947jbbarker says:

     January 18, 2013 at 6:15 pm

     See our previous post dated December 7, 2012 at 5:09 pm.
     My wife has her temp in her US passport to go to Mexico and get her card. We approached the San Antonio, Texas embassy to add me as a family member. We again had to prove solvency with bank statements (6 months) and marriage license. We both now have the laminated visa our passports. Overall courteous and professional service provided by the consulate. We did make three trips this week to satisfy the requested documentation.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 18, 2013 at 6:38 pm

       Good update. Thanks!
       .,

       Reply
115. rubygeorgina says:

     January 19, 2013 at 10:25 am

     Wondering about having working papers attached to a Permanent Visa. My understanding is that like Inmigrado it is not necessary to have working papers BUT the other day my facilitator’s assistant mentioned to me that when I apply for Permanent status I also need to provide documentation about my existing working papers. What is your take on that?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 19, 2013 at 7:06 pm

       Hi Ruby,
       Good question.

       If you meet the personal Fiscal Solvency requirements for a Residente Permanente permit, then your current working status should not matter. If you are using income from your current work in Mexico to meet the Solvency requirements, maybe that’s why your “facilitator” thinks you may need to show them.

       There have been a growing number of reports from across Mexico (from Cancun & Merida, over to Chapala, San Miguel Allende, to Puerta Vallarta) describing “facilitators” who are making significant mistakes at INM with the immigrants they are trying to help, including lots of bad and uninformed advice. The same issue is happening for a number of so-called “immigration” attorneys, as they also have not learned the specific requirements of the 2011 INM law and the Nov 2012 Lineamientos. Neither “facilitators” nor attorneys are required to study the new Immigration Law before giving advice, nor do they pass any competency tests on the 2011 Law, and there are no qualifications required before they start to offer these services. Many “facilitators” and lawyers clearly have not even read the new law or they have ignored what they read. We have personally seen where these untrained Do-It-Yourself “facilitators” and lawyers have been adding requirements that are neither in the law nor required by their local INM office.

       I would probe a bit by questioning your “facilitator” as to the specific legal citations in the Law or the Lineamientos that describe this unusual requirement. You are correct that just like the old Inmigrado, the Residente Permanente automatically grants the holder the right to work in Mexico. I have read the INM statutes on these areas roughly 20 times, and there is nothing relating to your “facilitator’s” request.

       It is possible that your local INM office asks for this, but there really should be NO HARM in not submitting them… and waiting to see if your INM office actually asks for them. If they require them, then submit the documents.

       Hint: None of the reports we have read from Residente Permanente applicants who currently have Lucrativo status, have mentioned this issue.
       steve

       Reply
116. rubygeorgina says:

     January 20, 2013 at 8:19 am

     Thanks, Steve… that’s pretty much what I thought. Good advice about not submitting anything that is not asked for. And yes… I’ve chatted with several facilitators in our area who really have not yet come up to speed with the new regulations.

     Reply
117. Lynn Z says:

     January 22, 2013 at 12:46 pm

     I went to renew my FM3 January 7, 2013 and was one day late for my expiration. I now have a temporary letter that reads I must return in 60 days to finish the FM3 application. How long after I return to Mexico will the one year card be ready for pick-up? I was told that I had 55 days after expiration date to re new, not with the new laws. Becareful, I had all documents for the permanent card and was not able to get it.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 22, 2013 at 6:35 pm

       Hi Lynn,
       You are exactly correct about not allowing your current INM permit to expire. The opportunity to get Residente Permanente can depend on having 4 unbroken years of prior INM permits, with no fines nor penalties. By allowing your old permit to expire, you surrendered the chance to change to a Permanent Residency card.

       Related Notes for Readers: If your INM permit expires on a weekend or holiday, it is your responsibility to go in early to start the application process before the expiration date. If you also have a foreign plated car with a temporary import permit, then you really should start the process 30 days early (30 days before the expiration date), because Aduana can confiscate any deposit, if you do not notify them of your new INM permit expiration date within 15 days of this year’s expiration date. Since the application process is taking extra time, some folks may lose their TIP deposits. ???

       Typical applications are taking 2 – 3 weeks to process the application, which leads to local INM office approval, after which they call you in to be fingerprinted. The fingerprints and approved application are then sent to Distrito Federal to have a Residency card printed and laminated. There has been a back-log of cards to be produced by the DF office, so that step is taking another 2 weeks to 1 month. This means the whole process might be completed in 4-5 weeks, but can take up to 2 months for people applying now.
       steve

       Reply
       • Lynn Z says:

         January 23, 2013 at 11:54 am

         Because my card had expired I lost ALL rights to a permanent card or just this renewal? What happens at this point if I do not renew the FM3 and let it go? It’s pretty impossible for me to be in Mexico for a month at a time.
       • yucalandia says:

         January 23, 2013 at 1:38 pm

         Hi Lynn,
         Correct, you may have lost your opportunity to be approved for a Permanent Residency card (this year?). Every person with an FM3 or FM2 has a right to apply for Residente Permanente.

         The local INM offices have the right to follow any one of these courses of action:
         ~ If you have either an annual Average Monthly Balance of at least $1,619,000 pesos … or .. exactly $32,380 pesos a month of regular pension deposits for one Residente Permanente, then your local office may approve your Permanent Residency application immediately.
         ~ Your local office can consider less than 4 past unbroken/continuous years of FM2 or FM3 to grant the applicant Permanent Residency.
         ~ Your local office can say that you have enough monthly income and/or a large enough annual average savings account/investment account balance, but STILL require you to do 1 or 2 years on a Residente Temporal.
         ~ If you are completing either 4 years or 5 years on your current FM2 or FM3, your local office can tell you that you must wait until that year’s permit expires and then apply for Residente Permanente within 6 months.
         ***
         ~ By the end of January, the INM is supposed to publish the new rules for the “Points System”, where applicants for Permanent Residency do not have to fully meet any of the requirements listed above, but that the local INM office can approve the applicant for partially meeting a combination of the individual requirements, or if the applicant offers some key service to Mexico (like being a productive scientist), owning property in Mexico, etc. Some INM offices are already using their own in-house version of the “Points System” by approving applicants who own some property, have some monthly income, and have some annual average savings – with no single value meeting the specified criteria.

         Clear as mud? Let’s hope this all sorts out into a single coherent set of rules during the coming year, with minimal variations between offices. There currently are wide variations in the applications being accepted for Permanent Residency by individual INM offices.

         Check with your own office,
         steve
118. Terri says:

     January 23, 2013 at 12:53 pm

     This last post raises questions for me? Why would someone who doesn’t spend most of their time in Mexico want to be a permanent resident? For that matter are there any rules about how much time you must to spend in Mexico in order to qualify for permanent residency?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 23, 2013 at 1:14 pm

       Terri,
       Good Questions.

       ~ Regular visitors to Mexico can save $1,000’s of dollars over the years in various fees, and annual INM permit renewal costs.
       ~ Residente Permanente card holders can work and run businesses, getting income while here.
       ~ Residente Permanente is the path to Naturalized Citizenship, which can save many gringos $10,000’s of dollars in Fideicomiso savings.
       ~ Residente Permanente can allow some gringos to sell their homes using the Homeowner’s Exemption, avoiding paying 25% tax on the whole sale price or avoiding paying 28% tax on the net gain.
       ~ Residente Permanente card holders do not have to leave Mexico every 6 months like Visitor permits.
       ~ Residente Permanente do not have to return to do annual renewals like Residente Temporal card holders.
       ~ Residente Temporal holders must convert over to Residente Permanente anyway,
       after having their temporary permit for 4 years (including prior FM2 or FM3 years). Alternately, to avoid having to go to Residente Permanente, Residente Temporal holders may be able to abandon/surrender their existing cards, leave Mexico, go to a Mexican Consulate in their home country, apply for a new Residente Temporal at the Consulate, wait for that approval , and then go back to Mexico and re-file for a fresh Residente Temporal… which seems like a lot of hassles to just keep a US or Canadian car.

       but… to each his own,
       steve

       Reply
     • Lynn Z says:

       January 23, 2013 at 1:16 pm

       Simple Terri, I am not retired as of yet and still run my business full time, when I can be in Mexico I am, trying to get ahead of all the new laws before they change it and make it impossible to be permanent resident. I would love to be there full time soon!

       Reply
119. Merlenna says:

     January 23, 2013 at 8:56 pm

     We went to Austin, Texas Embassy.
     Thanks for the heads up.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 24, 2013 at 8:54 am

       Thanks for the further reply. This makes it clear that, so far, this is an Austin-only requirement. There are no other reports from other Mexican Consulates in the USA, Canada, or Europe who are asking for the additional requirement of copies of tax returns. The INM law and the Lineamientos make it clear that only bank statements, investment account statements, or pension statements are needed.

       Again, we will note that the Consulates are part of SRE (the foreign service), and they are not part of INM. As such, they do not seem to always follow INM / SEGOB’s rules or laws on immigration. This may be a training issue, or it may be due to some local Consul’s pecadillos, or this Austin-only addition may be due to simple misunderstandings / misinterpretations of the rules. If this is important to you, (and if you meet INM’s actual official personal Fiscal Solvency requirements), I would strongly consider printing out the specific Article and Section from the official Lineamientos describing the current official rules on income/savings/deposits/pension distributions/SSI income requirements for Residency ~ and give a copy of the official rules for personal Fiscal Solvency to your Austin Consulate. e.g. There are 2 other Consulates who were previously unaware of the actual rules, who were making up their own rules, and when shown the actual rules, both flipped their policies to fit INM rules.

       The specific Article numbers, Section numbers, and web links to the Lineamientos are listed in the article above.
       steve

       Reply
     • Jerry Barker says:

       January 24, 2013 at 6:36 pm

       San Antonio wants bank statements only.

       Reply
120. Nicole says:

     February 4, 2013 at 7:19 pm

     Sorry. I thought I was quoting one of the experts on this site. The information is very helpful – the best I have seen, and I am grateful for it.

     Reply
121. Nicole says:

     February 4, 2013 at 8:16 pm

     Having reread the opening article (including financial requirements section), I have more questions. As background, I had gotten everything together I needed to apply for a first-time, temporary no-inmigrante visa, months ago, before the regulations changed. However, when I returned to the INM office in Ensenada to apply (having been there 4 times previously with questions, etc.), I was told I had everything I needed – EXCEPT that I lacked a Spanish translation of my financial statements, which were over 100 pages long. I put off the time-consuming task of translating my financial statements until after the regulations had changed (had I only known what would follow!). About a week after the regulations had changed, I returned to INM to ask if I could not possibly just translate the 6 pages that showed one (of a few) accounts containing funds sufficient to qualify me for the visa. She said “yes,” that would suffice. She looked at my documentation and said all I needed to do was to return to INM with it and the 6 translated pages. I was thrilled. I returned to INM 2 days later with what I’d been told I’d need. This time, the representative (another woman) looked over my documents and said, “sorry, we don’t do that here anymore. You need to go to San Diego. And they won’t like your financial documentation.” I believe that was my 6th visit to INM.

     Since then, I have been researching, again, what I will need to apply for a visa – at the Consulate in San Diego. Until I found your site today, I had thought I could ONLY get a temporary residency visa (“TRV”); I’d read that a permanent residency visa (“PRV”) would not be issued until one had resided here legally for four years. So all of my research was related to the TRV.

     Assuming a PRV really can be issued to a first-time applicant, I am eligible to apply for one. I have read your description of “advantages and disadvantages” of TRVs vs. PRVs and did not note ANY disadvantage of applying for a PRV. My question is: IIs that the case; is there any reason NOT to apply for the TRV? (I did note posts expressing concerns about those with PRVs importing/keeping foreign-plated cars here, and possibly some tax issues (?), and I gather that these are open questions, at the moment.)

     Thank you again.

     Nicole

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 4, 2013 at 9:22 pm

       Hi Nicole,
       It’s good that you read things and understand them better.

       First, a minor point: There is NO such thing as a Temporary Residency “Visa”. A visa is a specific legal permission document, as a special sticker placed in the passport, for a foreigner to enter Mexico. Americans are NOT required to have visas to enter Mexico. INM instead issues a permit in the form of a card called a Tarjeta de Residente Temporal (Temporary Resident Card) to allow foreigners to stay in Mexico. I make this point, because you do not want to request a “residency visa” from the Consulate – you want to make an application for “residence”. The TRV and PRV terms are faulty, and generally should not be used when talking with INM, since they cause unnecessary confusion – because people from many non-treaty countries must actually request actual visas before being allowed into Mexico, while US and Canadian citizens can enter Mexico with just their passports.

       Second: The Mexican Consulate in San Diego may or may not approve you to apply for a Permanent Residency card. If they do give you their preliminary approval, then the Consulate will put a special “Visitante Visa” in your passport, (an actual temporary visa), that allows you to enter Mexico for the purpose of applying for residency, and you use that special visa to then go apply at your local INM office for your actual Residency permit (Tarjeta de Residencia = Residency Card).

       Third: Even if the Consulate approves you to enter Mexico to apply for a Permanent Residency card, your local INM office has the discretion to deny your request, as the local INM offices are given wide latitude in what applications they accept – and they can add additional requirements not specified in the law.

       Both the Consulate and your local INM office may approve you for a Residente Permanente permit/card. They have legal right to accept it, but they are not required to. ~ If they do, GREAT ! ~ They may also tell you that you have to complete 1 or 2 years on a Residente Temporal permit first. It may help if you copy the pertinent sections of the Lineamientos in Spanish to show the Consular personnel, describing the actual INM requirements. Since the Consular employees are SRE (foreign service) personnel (not SEGOB nor INM employees), they often do not know the INM Lineamientos.

       Further, since we do not know the particular details of your personal situation, we cannot hazard a guess as to whether you qualify. We also have no reports from readers about how the Mexican Consulate in San Diego is handling things – nor any reports from how Ensenada’s INM office is handling things.

       Re your financial statements: Did you highlight or circle the key items of beginning and ending statement dates, deposits, beginning and ending account balances – ~ identifying each with handwritten Spanish translations of the key terms ~ – ? We have described these terms in our other articles describing what to highlight, i.e.:
       ~ Beginning and Ending Dates on each Statement (Fecha de Inicio, Fecha de Termino, or Periodo de Actividades)
       ~ Beginning and Ending Balances (Saldos)
       ~ Each Individual Deposit (Deposito / Abono) and circle the Column Header Title for Deposits.
       ~ Account Owner (Titular de Cuenta or “Cliente”)
       ~ Account Number (Numero de Cuenta)

       We have found that INM offices accept bank or retirement account statements in English when they have had the key terms translated and highlighted.

       Hopefully, if you ask for the right things, provide the right documentation, then you will get a good outcome.

       Come back and give us a shout about how it all turns out.
       All the Best,
       steve

       Reply
122. Nicole says:

     February 4, 2013 at 9:49 pm

     Thanks, Steve. Well, I DID do much of what you suggested, when preparing to apply in Ensenada. The one thing I HOPE I am right about, now, is that when I provide my financial statements (and I know they must be complete – not just reflect one account) – to the Consulate in San Diego, I will NOT have to include translations of them. (I have communicated with someone who recently applied there, and he said he did not have to provide translations. Come to think of it, he also said (a) he had applied directly for permanent residency, without having lived here, and that was granted to him and his family, and now that I see that it is possible to apply directly, I “get it, and (b) he did not need a police report. He moved to Baja Sur, where I believe he was granted permanent residency, but of course, that is not where I will have to apply.)

     But my main question was meant to be: IF I can apply for/obtain permanent residency, is there any disadvantage in doing this as opposed to applying for temporary residency?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 4, 2013 at 9:58 pm

       Perfect ! Getting the police certification that you have no criminal record can be a pain, so, it is good that San Diego is not requiring it.
       As answered in the other post, other than the possible TIP vehicle issue, there really is no problem with getting a Residente Permanente card. steve

       Reply
123. Nicole says:

     February 4, 2013 at 9:51 pm

     To clarify: Is there any disadvantage to being GRANTED permanent residency, as opposed to being granted temporary residency?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 4, 2013 at 9:55 pm

       Except for the possible hassles with keeping a Temporarily Imported foreign plated car for more than a year here in Mexico, I do not see any problems with getting permanent residency. People who go for Temporary Residency are forced to go to Permanent Residency, anyway, when their total number of current FM2/FM3 years +Residente Temporal years add up to 4.
       All the best, steve

       Reply
124. Maggie says:

     February 4, 2013 at 11:06 pm

     Hi Steve, I posted some questions here late last year when our (my husband & I) FM2’s were about to expire. We applied for renewal prior to expiry & this renewal on November 27th so it came under new rules. We had a FM2 for one year as we were granted that immediately on moving to Mexico in 2011.
     We (possibly foolishly) trusted a local visa “advisor” with our application & were granted a “Residente Temporal”. Our preference was a Permanent residency & we had sufficient joint income for this. On application our “advisor” told us he did not know which vis (Temporary or Permanent) we would get….just apply & we would see…however he told us straight off how much we needed to pay….which I found to be unusual on the day as I was aware that fees were different for both. But of course we trusted him & our application was processed.
     We were granted “Residente Temporal” & went & had our fingerprints taken & completed paperwork as we assumed that this was the Visa we had been granted. We now wonder if in fact our “advisor” knew what she was doing & applied for the Temporary visa straight off.
     We are waiting since mid December for our ID cards…which I understand is not unusual with the backlog.
     We now find ourselves in a position where it is VERY IMPORTANT (due to personal circumstances) that we get Permenant residency & not Temporary.
     My questions are:
     1) Do you know if, with 1 year of residency with a FM2, we may apply for Permanent Residency….as we DO have the stated income levels.
     2) If the answer the the above question is Yes, at this late point..when we are awaiting ID cards for Residente Temporal…can we apply for this to be changed / reassessed as a Permanent visa application??
     3) Can paperwork that was submitted as part of a visa application be requested to be returned…or re-used if we are now applying for permanent residency.

     Your help would be very much appreciated.
     Maggie

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 5, 2013 at 12:28 pm

       Hi Maggie,
       Your situation is unusual, and is not specifically covered by the 2011 INM Law, nor the 2012 Reglamento, nor the 2012 Lineamientos.

       Since any changes are all controlled by your local INM office, you need to go see them and explain your situation. They may allow you to abandon your current application, abandon your current payment, and start over with a fresh application for a Residente Permanente Tarjeta de Residencia . Does your local INM office actually say that you qualify for Residente Permanente? I would not abandon your current Residente Temporal application, unless your local INM office says that you do qualify for Residente Permanente .

       If can prove that you have the required levels of income, then your local INM office does have the option to approve you for a Residente Permanente card. They are not required to approve you, because individual INM offices are given discretion and broad latitude in approving applications.

       If you abandon your current Residente Temporal card application, they may allow you to use the same documentation – but that is up to them.

       Come back and tell us which INM office your are working with, and how it worked out,
       steve

       Reply
125. Iqbal Muktadir says:

     February 4, 2013 at 11:37 pm

     Is there a (any) way to convert my FMM visa to FM3 visa while I am staying rightnow in Mexico with FMM Visitante’ visa.

     Please let me know ASAP.

     MUKTADIR
     C/O, Jaacob Cuivas.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 5, 2013 at 12:19 pm

       Dear Iqbal,
       There is no way for typical foreigners in Mexico to convert from FMM visitor’s permits to Residency permits.

       If you have a family member who is Mexican, then you can apply here in Mexico. If you are legally married to a Mexican, then you can apply here. If you are a political refugee or other refugee, fleeing persecution, then you may be allowed to apply here.

       If you do not fit one of the special categories, then under the INM law, as published in May 2011, then you must leave Mexico to apply for residency at a Mexican Consulate in a country where you have legal residency.
       steve

       Reply
126. Patricia Niles says:

     February 5, 2013 at 11:34 am

     Could anyone give me information on capital gains tax cost for the sale of our house, we currently have FM2’s and are in the process of applying for Permanent Residency

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 5, 2013 at 1:19 pm

       Hi Patricia,
       The rules on determining taxes on the gains on Mexican property are somewhat complex.

       Read our long and detailed article on this at: Capital Gains Taxes on Mexican Properties .

       In short form: If your Notario approves you for the Homeowners Exemption, then you pay no taxes, but you must meet multiple legal requirements to qualify for this exemption. If your Notario will not approve you for the Homeowners Exemption, then you either pay taxes of 25% of the total sale price … or 28% taxes on the adjusted basis (deducting out the original sale price, plus various other deductions/adjustments, and possibly deducting depreciation).

       It really all does come down to how your Notario structured your purchase, and on whether your Notario decides to approve you for the tax exemption.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
127. Iqbal Muktadir says:

     February 5, 2013 at 4:48 pm

     I am a graduate Electrical & Electronics Engineer having around 7 years Overseas experience, If I get any job offer here from Mexican company, then should I be eligible to convert my FMM status to a FM3 visa status, If I go through a Lawer, then is it possible to do tha same? Please let me know ASAP. Thanks for your cooperation.

     Regards,
     Muktadir
     C/O, Jaqoob Cuivas

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 6, 2013 at 12:18 pm

       Iqbal,
       Every thing I read in the 450 pages of the 2011 INM Law, the 2012 Reglamento, and the 2012 Lineamientos had zero options for professionals to convert from a Visitor Permit (FMM) over to a Residency Permit while inside Mexico. Maybe you have a lawyer who can make a “special payment” to get around the law and regulations, or create some special work-around, but I find no legal options, other than those I mentioned in the previous reply. Is it really impossible to follow the rules, and go to a country where you have valid residency to make the application.

       Further, INM regulations describe approval of Residency permits for people who already have jobs or firm job offers, have a letter to prove the job, and have documentation that the company providing the job is a real company. If you do not already have such current proofs of a real job from a real company, then INM will likely not approve you for a Temporary residency permit to work in Mexico, until the INM publishes its Points System.

       As an alternative: If you already qualify for Residente Permanente based on the rules listed in the article above, then apply for Permanent Residency (at a Mexicna Consulate), which allows you to work.
       steve

       Reply
128. Chad says:

     February 7, 2013 at 8:08 am

     Hi Steve,

     I see so much chatter about retirees and pensions to show proof of income. (As I do believe this is the norm.) I am definetely under retiree age and It is my understanding that if I work from Mexico, but receive my financial backing from the U.S. and the deposits are in the U.S. I can still apply for permanent residency, correct (or temporary at that)? Since I am really ‘remunerado’, but not on a Mexican salary is this OK? No work visa complications? Or are they really looking for a guaranteed pension or social security deposit? This may seem like a silly question, but after perusing so much information my head begins to hurt. I truly appreciate your dedication and expertise that you offer on this site. You and your site have been a life saver. Please keep up the good work. We all look up to you!
     Chad

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 7, 2013 at 9:04 am

       Hi Chad,
       First: Proving personal fiscal solvency may or may not routinely require providing financial documents. Consulates definitely require the documents for new applicants. For people with FM2s or FM3, some INM offices routinely require documentation, while many other INM offices do not ask for documentation. At the offices that do not routinely require documentation, if the INM agent thinks the application or applicant looks suspecicious, they do ask for documentation.

       Second: Check out: Financial Independence (Savings or Income) Requirements for Permanent Residency / Residente Permanente Applicants . Article 44 of the Lineamientos clearly identifies monthly income (from either work or pensions) deposits can be sufficient to prove personal financial solvency for Residente Permanente applicants. Article 41 provides the similar income descriptions for Residente Temporal applicants.

       Third: Check out our article on working in Mexico while being paid in another country: https://yucalandia.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/income-tax-liabilities-in-mexico/ Income Tax Liabilities in Mexico . Basically, the last word we got from an INM supervisor is that you do NOT register as a working (lucrativo) status, even for the temporary residents. Also, under the new law, if you get a Residente Permanente card, you are authorized to work here… So, there are no visa / permit issues around you working here, being paid in another country. You might note that Hacienda may believe that you could owe tax in Mexico on such income, but Hacienda credits your US tax payments as a deduction from any taxes owed in Mexico.

       Finally, thank you for the kind words: ~ It has been fun ! ~ Helping people hack through the dense thickets of the changing and very complex regulations fits with my enjoyment of learning and teaching university Chemisty and learning and teaching US EPA Environmental Regulations. I actually enjoy culling-through and distilling-down nearly 500 pages of Spanish legalese and Govt.-speak down to a handful of summaries. And yes, it does take a lot of work to keep the content accurate and current.
       THANKS !
       steve

       Reply
129. Maggie says:

     February 7, 2013 at 2:44 pm

     Hi Steve, thank you (again) for your response to my query.
     We have spoken to another advisor about changing from a FM2 (which we had for one year) to Permanent Visa & she has again said “No, you need to have 4 years with a FM2”
     Therefore……My husband & I are very confused about the “Qualificantions for Permanent Residency”. I have been doing alot of reading of your very helpful website & the attached links.
     If I might please ask for clarification of one point…
     Under your section “Additional information on how the new categories line up with parts of the old categories:” you quote:
     On the issue of “Permanente Residente” / old “Inmigrado”, the new law’s Transitorio section reads:After Article 162: “Transitorios, Sexto: VI. Los extranjeros que hayan obtenido la calidad migratoria de inmigrado, se equipararán al Residente permanente. “
     This translates to:
     ” VI. Foreigners who have obtained the immigration status of “inmigrado”, are deemed equivalent to Permanent Resident status. “
     However on one of your links – by Solomon Freimuth – New Mexican Immigration Law comes into effect in November 2011 he states:
     “People who currently hold FM3′s and FM2′s and who do not fall into any of the categories allowed for Permanent Residency will be eligible at the time of renewal for Temporary Residency.”

     Our previous FM2 was a “Inmigrante – Rentista” & we are applying in Rosarito office

     Is there any way we can get absolute clarification? Or is it on a case by case basis?
     We DO have the income level required but DO NOT meet any of the other requirements for Permanent visa. We had been been advised when we first applied & successfully obtained our FM2 in 2011 that we were “permanent” residents.
     Also….
     If we do not qualify – and need to just accept our new “Temporale Residente” visa – do we then need to wait 3 years before we get Permanent residency?? (i.e 1 year of FM2 & 3 years of Temporary visa”??
     Thanks as always
     Maggie

     .

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 7, 2013 at 3:08 pm

       Hi Maggie,
       You wrote: “We have spoken to another advisor about changing from a FM2 (which we had for one year) to Permanent Visa & she has again said “No, you need to have 4 years with a FM2″

       This is simply not correct on several levels:
       1. You can get a Residente Permanente immediately if a.) you meet one of the fiscal solvency requirements AND b.) your local INM is willing to approve you based on this part of the INM Law and Lineamientos. Some INM offices are granting Residente Permanente with anywhere between 0 – 4 years completed on some combination of FM2/Residente Temporal or FM3/Residente Temporal years. Some offices are requiring just zero or 1 total year, others require 2 total years, etc…

       2. You definitely qualify for Residente Permanente in just 3 more years of Residente Temporal (as 4 years total completed on your current INM permit with no breaks). (So you definitely do NOT have to complete 4 years on an FM2 – Inmigrante permit.)

       Is there any way we can get absolute clarification? Or is it on a case by case basis?
       We DO have the income level required but DO NOT meet any of the other requirements for Permanent visa. We had been been advised when we first applied & successfully obtained our FM2 in 2011 that we were “permanent” residents.

       As described in Item 1, if your local INM office follows the Lineamientos, then you qualify now.
       Your local office also has the latitude to arbitrarily add a requirement you to complete another year, or possibly up to 3 more years on a Temporary Residency card. It is their discretion. I suggest you give them all the details of your situation (including income or pension deposits, savings, and Mexican property ownership) and find out what they decide.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
130. Suzanne says:

     February 7, 2013 at 3:15 pm

     Hi all,

     I am in a sort of specific situation and I hope that someone can help me… I’m a 28 year old medical doctor from the Netherlands with a Mexican partner (however not married etc). I came to Mexico beginning on January on a tourist visa (FMM) to start the revalidation (homologacion) of my diploma’s, and will need to do a ‘servicio social’ to be able to registrar as a physician in Mexico. I have been told though at the Secretaria de Educacion that to revalidate my diploma I need proof of an ‘estancia legal en el pais’ that is not the FMM. Therefore I want to apply for a Residente Temporal visa, based on the Solvencia Economica, as I don’t qualify for any of the other requirements (Unidad Familiar, Inversionista, Investigacion Scientifica, Oferta de Empleo..). The Mexican embassy in the Netherlands however tells my that you can only base your application on the Solvencia Economica if you are a pensioner (rentista), which I’m obviously not! They tell me my only option is to show a Carta de Invitacion, as my plan is to work in Mexico. To me this seems like a catch-22 situation: I will not be able to apply for a job until my diplomas are revalidated, which I need to be able to do a servicio social, which I need for registration as a doctor. But to start the revalidation (and I guess to be allowed to do a servicio social) I need to have a Residente Temporal visa!
     Is it true that the Solvencia Economica in the case of the application for the Residente Temporal visa only applies to pensioners? Is my only option therefore to get married? That seems a bit far-fetched…
     I would very much appreciate your thoughts on the matter!

     Suzanne Veldhuis

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 7, 2013 at 7:46 pm

       Hi Suzanne,
       “. The Mexican embassy in the Netherlands however tells my that you can only base your application on the Solvencia Economica if you are a pensioner (rentista), which I’m obviously not! ”

       This is just incorrect. I would take them a copy in Spanish of the specific article of the Lineamientos applying to the requisitos for qualifying for Residente Temporal. If you look above in this article, read the section on:

       Articulo 41 Requisitos
       2012 INM Lineamientos: http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5276967&fecha=08/11/2012
       Using Method of Monthly Deposits of Income or Pension Receipts: (Resident Temporal)
       ~ Have minimum pension or salary deposits of income that is the equivalent of four hundred days worth of the current minimum wage in the Federal District, for each of the previous six months – with original and copies of original bank statement for one Residente Temporal.

       Current 2013 DF general minimum wages of $64.76 MXN pesos per day, converted at the current exchange rate of 13.00 pesos to US dollars, for 400 days of wages:
       ~ About $2,000 USD (exactly $25,904 pesos) per month of regular Deposits ~ to qualify for Residente Temporal

       Specifically, in Spanish:
       Artículo 41. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, cambio de visitante por razones humanitarias a residente temporal.
       …
       Requisitos:
       1. Original y copia del pasaporte, del documento de identidad y viaje o del documento oficial que haya exhibido para obtener la condición de estancia de visitante por razones humanitarias;
       2. Comprobante del pago de derechos por la recepción y estudio de la solicitud de cambio de condición, de conformidad con lo previsto en la Ley Federal de Derechos;
       3. FMM o tarjeta de visitante, válida y vigente;
       4. Presentar los documentos que acrediten alguno de los siguientes supuestos:
       a) Oferta de empleo:
       i. Oferta en papel membretado emitida por una persona física o moral establecida formalmente en territorio nacional, en la que se indique la ocupación que pretende realizar la persona extranjera, temporalidad requerida, lugar de trabajo y los datos de la constancia de inscripción del empleador emitida por el Instituto.
       b) Solvencia económica:
       i. Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos doce meses; o
       ii. Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes equivalentes a cuatrocientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.”

       If you show them the bolded passage of Requisitos, Item 3, ii. : “ii. Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo… ” clearly states that deposits “con empleo” (from employment) qualify.

       If you copy this section, and show them the exact quote describing employment income FIRST (before pension income), then I think they will understand.
       All the Best,
       steve

       Did you also note?:
       “c) Carta de invitación:
       i. Original de la carta de una organización o de una institución pública o privada de reconocida probidad que invita a la persona extranjera a participar en alguna actividad no remunerada en territorio nacional. La carta deberá contener los siguientes datos:
       – Nombre completo del solicitante o interesado y nacionalidad.
       – Denominación o razón social de la organización.
       – Número de registro y objeto de la organización o institución privada.
       – Domicilio completo y datos de contacto de la organización o institución.
       – Información sobre la actividad que realizará o el proyecto en el que participará el extranjero. La actividad del extranjero deberá estar relacionada con los fines de la organización o institución que invita.
       – Duración estimada o fecha aproximada de terminación de la actividad que realizará.
       – La manifestación de la responsabilidad solidaria para la manutención del extranjero durante su estancia en México y de su retorno a su país de origen o de residencia.
       – Copia de una identificación oficial con firma de quien suscribe la carta invitación.
       ii. La solvencia para asumir responsabilidad solidaria por parte de la institución privada que invita deberá acreditarse mediante copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo vigente para el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos doce meses.
       Las instituciones públicas, instituciones de educativas o de investigación pertenecientes al Sistema Educativo Nacional o empresas que transfieren personal a la matriz, filial o subsidiaria en México, no requieren presentar solvencia económica.”

       Here is the full version
       Artículo 41. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, cambio de visitante por razones humanitarias a residente temporal.

       Caso en el que se presenta:

       Aplicable al titular de la condición de estancia de visitante por razones humanitarias que al término del proceso o de las causas que motivaron la autorización de dicha condición, desee residir en territorio nacional y acredite encontrarse en alguno de los supuestos señalados en el apartado de criterios de la presente ficha de trámite.
       Fundamento jurídico:

       Artículos 3, fracciones VI, XI, XXIX; 43, 52, fracciones V y VII; 53, 61, 77, 79, 126, 128, 130 y 131 de la Ley; 1 y 142 del Reglamento.
       Forma de presentación:

       Formato para solicitar trámite migratorio de estancia.
       Lugar donde se presenta:

       Oficinas de atención a trámites del Instituto.
       Monto de los derechos:

       El previsto en el artículo 9 de la Ley Federal de Derechos.
       Plazo máximo de resolución:

       20 días hábiles.
       Vigencia de la autorización:

       1, 2 o 3 años, de acuerdo con la petición del interesado, o en su caso, de acuerdo con la oferta de empleo.
       Excepciones al artículo 15-A de la LFPA:

       Se requiere original de todos los documentos que se señalan a continuación:

       Requisitos:
       1. Original y copia del pasaporte, del documento de identidad y viaje o del documento oficial que haya exhibido para obtener la condición de estancia de visitante por razones humanitarias;
       2. Comprobante del pago de derechos por la recepción y estudio de la solicitud de cambio de condición, de conformidad con lo previsto en la Ley Federal de Derechos;
       3. FMM o tarjeta de visitante, válida y vigente;
       4. Presentar los documentos que acrediten alguno de los siguientes supuestos:
       a) Oferta de empleo:
       i. Oferta en papel membretado emitida por una persona física o moral establecida formalmente en territorio nacional, en la que se indique la ocupación que pretende realizar la persona extranjera, temporalidad requerida, lugar de trabajo y los datos de la constancia de inscripción del empleador emitida por el Instituto.
       b) Solvencia económica:
       i. Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos doce meses; o
       ii. Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes equivalentes a cuatrocientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.
       c) Carta de invitación:
       i. Original de la carta de una organización o de una institución pública o privada de reconocida probidad que invita a la persona extranjera a participar en alguna actividad no remunerada en territorio nacional. La carta deberá contener los siguientes datos:
       – Nombre completo del solicitante o interesado y nacionalidad.
       – Denominación o razón social de la organización.
       – Número de registro y objeto de la organización o institución privada.
       – Domicilio completo y datos de contacto de la organización o institución.
       – Información sobre la actividad que realizará o el proyecto en el que participará el extranjero. La actividad del extranjero deberá estar relacionada con los fines de la organización o institución que invita.
       – Duración estimada o fecha aproximada de terminación de la actividad que realizará.
       – La manifestación de la responsabilidad solidaria para la manutención del extranjero durante su estancia en México y de su retorno a su país de origen o de residencia.
       – Copia de una identificación oficial con firma de quien suscribe la carta invitación.
       ii. La solvencia para asumir responsabilidad solidaria por parte de la institución privada que invita deberá acreditarse mediante copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo vigente para el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos doce meses.
       Las instituciones públicas, instituciones de educativas o de investigación pertenecientes al Sistema Educativo Nacional o empresas que transfieren personal a la matriz, filial o subsidiaria en México, no requieren presentar solvencia económica.
       iii. En caso de que la institución no asuma responsabilidad solidaria, la persona extranjera deberá presentar copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a diez mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos doce meses; o copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes equivalentes a doscientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos seis meses.
       iv. Los documentos con los que la persona extranjera acredite que cuenta con la experiencia, capacidad, habilidades o conocimientos necesarios para desarrollar la actividad para la cual es invitada.
       d) Bienes inmuebles en territorio nacional:
       i. Escritura pública en la que conste que el extranjero es propietario de bienes inmuebles o que adquiere derechos de fideicomisario, con un valor equivalente a cuarenta mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, original y copia.

       e) Inversionista
       i. Escritura o póliza de la persona moral mexicana otorgada ante fedatario público, o documento debidamente certificado por el órgano de administración o funcionario competente de éste, en el que conste que la persona extranjera participa en el capital social de dicha persona moral mexicana, y que el monto de la inversión efectivamente erogado para la participación de la persona extranjera en la persona moral mexicana sea equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, lo cual podrá acreditarse, enunciativa mas no limitativamente, mediante contrato de compraventa de acciones o partes sociales, contrato de transmisión de bienes o derechos en favor de la persona moral mexicana o documento expedido por esta última que acredite el monto aportado por concepto de la participación en el capital social;
       ii. Documento que acredite la titularidad de bienes muebles en favor de la persona moral extranjera, con valor equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal;
       iii. Documentación que acredite el desarrollo de las actividades económicas o empresariales en territorio nacional, lo cual podrá acreditarse, enunciativa mas no limitativamente, con contratos, órdenes de servicio, facturas, recibos, planes de negocio, licencias o permisos, y constancia expedida por el Instituto Mexicano del Seguro Social que acredite que la persona extranjera es empleador de al menos cinco trabajadores.

       Criterios de resolución:
       I. La autorización por oferta de empleo estará sujeta a las cuotas que establezca la Secretaría mediante acuerdo publicado en el Diario Oficial de la Federación, de conformidad con el Capítulo I del Título Sexto del Reglamento.
       II. El supuesto de inversionista se podrá autorizar a la persona extranjera que se encuentre en alguno de los siguientes casos:
       a) Que tenga participación en el capital social de sociedades mexicanas de conformidad con las leyes y demás disposiciones jurídicas aplicables, y que el valor de la inversión sea equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal;
       b) Que tenga bienes muebles o activos fijos utilizados para fines económicos o empresariales de conformidad con las leyes y demás disposiciones jurídicas aplicables, cuyo valor sea equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, o
       c) Que desarrolle actividades económicas o empresariales en territorio nacional de conformidad con las leyes y demás disposiciones jurídicas aplicables, que generen al menos cinco empleos formales.
       Información importante para el usuario:
       – En caso de resolución positiva, la persona extranjera deberá presentar los requisitos correspondientes, para la expedición de documento migratorio por autorización de condición de estancia en términos del artículo 33 de los presentes Lineamientos.
       – La persona extranjera que obtenga autorización de la condición de estancia de residente temporal tiene la obligación de comunicar al Instituto cualquier cambio de estado civil, cambio de nacionalidad por una distinta a la utilizada para ingresar al territorio nacional, o cambio de domicilio o de lugar de trabajo. La comunicación deberá realizarse dentro de los noventa días naturales posteriores a que ocurra dicho cambio.
       En caso de no cumplir con dicha obligación se hará acreedor a las sanciones previstas en el artículo 158 de la Ley.

       Reply
131. Lynn Z says:

     February 7, 2013 at 3:39 pm

     Hi Steve, Now that the holidays are long over and the new laws are up and running, do you know the wait time after finger printing in Nueva Vallarta for the actual card? Thanks for your time.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 7, 2013 at 7:20 pm

       Hi Lynn,
       The current backlog seems to take 2-3 weeks to mail your information, print the card in DF, and mail the new card back to your local INM office.
       steve

       Reply
132. Charles Thomas says:

     February 8, 2013 at 8:23 am

     We’re in the process of moving to Mexico from Belize. Thought your team might find this information useful:
     All visas for Mexico are processed only in Belize City (at the site of the original MX Embassy). Neither the MX Embassy in Belmopan nor the small consulate/MX Aide station in Corozal (near Chetumal border) offer this service.

     The Belize City office is open 9-12AM, first come, first served. Best to come midweek we were told and indeed on Thursday morning we were second in line at 8:30AM. It is located at the corner of Wilson St and Newtown Barracks (near Princess Hotel/Casino). Phone 501.223.0193 or 501.223.0194
     Email: embamexbze@btl.net or consular@embamex.bz

     In Belize City the clerk informed us that if we wished a Residente Temporal visa we had to START the process in MX and then return to Belize. Made no sense whatsoever but she had some documentation that stated same. We didn’t ask details so as not to confuse the issue and, as well, we are looking to make a permanent move.

     As I had requested Residente Permanente, she said that process indeed started at the consulate and so she accepted the application and took my supporting documentation*. Each applicant had to have a complete copy of all the same documents,except for the passport information which is unique to each applicant.

     After a few short minutes we were photographed and fingerprinted. The counsul was unavailable that day so we were advised that we will be informed when to show up for an interview and if any additional documentation is required.

     Ours is the first Residente Permanente case their office has handled so it should prove interesting though hopefully neither complicated nor terribly lengthy.

     Separately we asked about moving household goods. Apparently there is a permit necessary, subsequent to entry approval, that requires the equivalent of a pedimente(sp?), translated in Spanish, with associated fee of $295BZ or about US$150.

     So far, a relatively easy event. On my next trip I will inquire about the Residente Temporal to learn more about the issue of starting the process in MX. I’ll pass along my findings to you at that time.

     *Documentation Requested by MX Consulate in Belize (Note: None of these had to be translated to Spanish)
     Single passport size photo for each applicant
     Proof of Retirement Pension
     1 YR bank statements
     Marriage Certificate
     Color copies of Passport ID page and Permanent Residency Stamp
     Copy of lease agreement (we have a 4 yr lease contract in MX)
     Cheers,
     Charles

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 8, 2013 at 9:14 am

       Thanks for the dandy report,
       steve

       Reply
133. Ayman says:

     February 8, 2013 at 5:06 pm

     How much time & what’s the required procedurs to get the permenant residence for foreigners married to Mexican citizen

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 8, 2013 at 5:46 pm

       Ayman,
       As written above, if your marriage is legally recognized by a Registro Civil in Mexico, then you qualify to apply for a Residente Permanente card after completing 2 years of temporary residency as Residente Temporal or as an FM2, each with no breaks, no penalties, or no fines.

       Reply
134. Linda Leonard says:

     February 12, 2013 at 9:52 am

     We have a fidei comiso for our condo. We recently received our permanent resident status. We plan to apply (next year) to become naturalized citizens. How do we then get rid of our fidei comiso?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 12, 2013 at 11:18 am

       Hi Linda,
       After you receive approval from SRE, and are declared naturalized citiznes, then contact the bank who holds your fideicomiso. Hopefully, a formal letter describing your new situation, along with proof of citizenship can be processed without a Notary.
       steve

       Reply
135. The Boom says:

     February 13, 2013 at 7:11 am

     I am going to be working at a private university. They said to come in on a tourist and not sign my contract till getting in Mexico and then convert to the new version of the lucrativo.

     They said they will be taking me to the INM office and shepherding me through the process.

     However, they think I will probably need to leave Mexico for a “few days” to pick up the visa. The way they describe it is similar to what I had to do in China.

     Any sense if they are correct given the new laws and how long this could take, especially how long I may need to stay outside of the country while dealing with the final visa paperwork?

     Thanks

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 13, 2013 at 9:07 am

       The typical processing time is now about 4 to 6 weeks.

       Reply
       • The Boom says:

         February 14, 2013 at 9:42 pm

         Thanks. Any idea on how many days I would need to be outside of country during that period? The school said it would be just a few to deal with a Mexican Consulate in the US but it seems like everything takes far more time related to Mexico than it should.
       • yucalandia says:

         February 15, 2013 at 8:36 am

         Reports from applicants at various Consulates across the USA are saying 1 to 4 days. The longer periods seem to be triggered by Consular requests for more information / more documentation. Some Consulates are requiring police background checks, others not. Contact the one closest to your home, and find out how long they are taking, and what they documentation they are requiring.
         steve
136. The Boom says:

     February 13, 2013 at 7:13 am

     Addendum to my prior post…the university felt that it would be much easier to do it the way I described rather than start the process outside, especially since I’m in China. Although I have heard there is a way to start the process and enter Mexico with 60 days to wrap it up.

     Reply
137. The Boom says:

     February 15, 2013 at 8:59 pm

     on a side note…one thing I’ve always wondered…lots of retirees in Mexico yet Mexico taxes US social security which is tax free up to a certain level of income in the US. Plus Mexico has higher cap gains tax on 401ks. Do most retirees just grin and bear it because the overall cost of living is so much cheaper?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 16, 2013 at 8:30 am

       Boom,
       Do you have evidence that Mexico taxes US Social Security benefits?
       I know at least 25 couples who live here full time and receive social security benefits, and none/zero of them are charged any Mexican taxes.

       Do you have evidence that Mexico taxes the capital gains Americans realize on their 401K gains?
       Again, I know about 5 people who are clearly getting capital gains from 401Ks, and none of them are charged Mexican taxes.

       What is the source of your understandings on these things? Can you provide official text from the Mex. Gob. / SAT / Hacienda that shows this?

       or maybe we are all seriously confused ???
       steve

       Reply
       • Roger Peterson says:

         February 16, 2013 at 3:06 pm

         try the link below to clarify, fast forward in the text to 6.2 on page 18, although this document was prepared prior to the immigration law changes of May 2012, I would expect Deloitte to post an update for 2013

         Click to access dttl_tax_guide_2012_Mexico.pdf
138. The Boom says:

     February 16, 2013 at 7:25 pm

     I’ve read quite a few places on the web (e.g, http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/On-Retirement/2011/12/05/the-most-tax-friendly-places-to-retire-abroad)
     that Mexico taxes social security and other retirement funds but have never been able to confirm it. It is always good to keep in mind that you can read all kinds of nonsense on the web.

     Unfortunately, the Deloitte section is an example of the vagueness I find related to taxes in Mexico. In the Deloitte section it mentions Pension benefits are exempt up to 9 times the minimum wage for the region. Do pension benefits include social security? If so (I prefer to see things specifically stated), it does seems to cover you for up to 1800 per month USD in pension benefits which would cover most social security payments. However, to make it more complex, Mexico has a different minimum wage per job. The min for a reporter of a print publication is around 2x that of a poultry farm manager. What number do they use?

     Mexico taxes capital gains as the Deloitte doc notes. However, the Deloitte doc doesn’t specifically mention 401k’s. It also says that sales of shares can be tax exempt in some situations but doesn’t say what they are.

     Any clarity would help and I would love to find out conclusively that both are exempt.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 16, 2013 at 8:07 pm

       Interesting.

       I am left with more questions than answers.

       I would note that the Deloitte guidance document gives no precise meaning to the term “Resident”, when they use it. When asked by a government agent, I can point to at least 4 different valid legal definitions of Resident for my own personal position. Mexico does not (yet) legally consider me a “resident” as far as working and other rights. I have residency in one location as a property holder by US voting criteria. US Border Patrol and CIS have told me I am a resident of Mexico because I lived here for 6 months before my last flight back to the USA. The IRS assigns me yet a different form of residency. To qualify for the homeowners exemption from gains taxes: Hacienda/the ISR says I only qualify as a Mexican resident if that location is both my “fiscal residence” & the “main center of your professional activities” under Mexican law.

       The Deloitte document’s 6.2 section may refer to citizens of Mexico who also reside in Mexico vs. those citizens who do not reside in Mexico? and refer to Mexican pensions (not making it clear what pensions they refer to)? i.e. Other Mexican laws differentiate between international pensions and Mexican pensions. Again, I just don’t know enough to give advice, am left with questions.

       Re the Minimum Wage: All of the Mexican laws I have read that base some $$ threshold on what American’s refer to as the “minimum wage”, is actually written specifically as the “salario mínimo general” , a specific daily wage rate for each region, that is published every year. Read Article 123 of the Mexican Constitution for its definition.

       i.e. The current salario minimo general for D.F. is $64.76 pesos per day http://www.conasami.gob.mx/t_sal_mini_prof.html & http://www.conasami.gob.mx/pdf/tabla_salarios_minimos/2013/01_01_2013.pdf .
       steve

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         February 18, 2013 at 12:31 pm

         The 1993 Mexico-USA Tax Treaty has an interesting clause on the residency issue:
         “Article 4 Residence
         …
         2. Where by reason of the provisions of paragraph 1, an individual is a resident of both Contracting
         States, then his residence shall be determined as follows:
         a) he shall be deemed to be a resident of the State in which he has a permanent home
         available to him; if he has a permanent home available to him in both Contracting States, he shall
         be deemed to be a resident of the State with which his personal and economic relations are
         closer (center of vital interests);
         b) if the State in which he has his center of vital interests cannot be determined, or if he
         does not have a permanent home available to him in either State, he shall be deemed to be a
         resident of the State in which he has an habitual abode;
         c) if he has an habitual abode in both States or in neither of them, he shall be deemed to
         be a resident of the State of which he is a national; …”

         Does this give you a deeper understanding of just how legally inappropriate and vague Deloitte’s casual usage of “Resident” is ?

         Does this give you a stronger sense of the importance of my point about how I am assigned differing residency status-es by least 4 different Mexican and US entities, and that Mexico has NO SINGLE definition of residency for me, and that the USA has NO SINGLE definition of residency for me?

         The issue of residency really does depend on what situation you are addressing and what Govt. agency you are dealing with. IRS rules are different from CIS, are different from CBP , are different from State rules. The same thing applies in Mexico.
         steve
       • yucalandia says:

         February 18, 2013 at 1:52 pm

         Hey Boom,
         The non-precise authors at Deloitte and the summarists and editors at US News seem to have missed Article 19 of the 1993 Mexico USA Tax Treaty:
         ARTICLE 19
         Pensions, Annuities, Alimony, and Child Support
         1. Subject to the provisions of Article 20 (Government Service):
         a) pensions and other similar remuneration derived and beneficially owned by a resident
         of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment by that individual or another
         individual resident of the same Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State; and
         b) social security benefits and other public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a
         resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in
         the first-mentioned State.

         … simple….

         Me? I tend to only trust authors who provide proper sources, references, and citations for their broad pronouncements and conclusions.

         My apologies if some of this is rambling or poorly constructed, as I am worn*out from 5 days of not-sleeping ~ coughing/hacking/wheezingg ~ from a wicked cold that migrated into a heavy 2º bacterial lung infection & bronchitis, which has me taking prescription expectorants and broncho-dilators, leaving me ultra-spacey…
         steve
139. The Boom says:

     February 16, 2013 at 8:17 pm

     Do you know if they multiply that by 22 days (normal working days a month)? If so, then that only makes around the first 1K of US social security tax exempt. Even if they multiply it by 30 then it is less than 1400 exempt and that obviously fluctuates based on exchange rate.

     And I agree with you about the Deloitte docs vagueness on resident too. I find it really hard to nail all this down.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 17, 2013 at 8:01 am

       Boom,
       Your observation about Deloitte’s faulty reference to the daily minimum wage is good. Here’s an attempt to try to make sense of their vague advice. I have not read the new Labor Law, but the Constitution describes 6 work day weeks, not exceeding 8 hours per day. That translates to 52 weeks of 6 days (312 days) @ $64.76 per day, so, the annual minimum wage would work out to $20,205 pesos or $1,554 USD per year (at $13 : $1 ) for 2013. . Note that the old Labor Law required statutory 7 paid days off for official holidays, and the labor law also required a payment of an Aguinaldo payment equaling of at least 15 days paid off at Christmas time.**

       If Deloitte’s 9X formula for taxing is correct, that would translate to $13,988 USD a year, or $1,165 a month. If Deloitte’s advice were taken at face value, then more than half of retired US expats who have lived here on FM2s and FM3 would owe taxes… a conclusion that is simply not believable – since basically zero retired US expats pay Mexican income taxes.

       I personally would go with what actually happens on the ground, versus generic somewhat vague insights we can get from the Deloitte document or from the overly broad (not detailed) US News report.
       steve

       **The Aguinaldo represents an extra payment to you (as an employee) of (15/312)*100% = 4.8% . I mention this because you have asked to try to determine the precise payments you might receive as a teacher here. Had you figured in the additional five percent payment you would receive annually by working in Mexico?

       Reply
140. The Boom says:

     February 17, 2013 at 8:25 am

     Steve thank you for your analysis. My guess is this is a case where Mexican inefficiency benefits retirees and people should be paying more. If I’m correct, let’s hope they don’t get their bureaucratic acts together during our lifetimes.

     What have you heard about 401K withdrawals an cap gains? Do you know retirees paying on those or is that included in the zero retirees paying income taxes?

     Whether or not I get hit on my 401K withdrawals and other capital gains plays a huge part in my decision to work in Mexico and if so what the requirements would be for me to work. I also have to sort through whether type of visa plays a role too.

     Thanks

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 17, 2013 at 10:38 am

       Hey Boom,
       You are free to assume that it is Mexican Gob. inefficiency, but over a decade of real world evidence indicates “not”. I think reality says that a generic vague non-legal summary by a foreign accounting firm (Deloitte) is likely misleading on this point. If there were tax obligations for 10,000’s of very chatty gringo retirees that existed for 20 years or more, there would be at least isolated reports of Hacienda enforcing such rules.

       I think the complete absence of at least a decade of gringo internet-comments and zero comments in the gringo organizations I attend, and no press reports of gringos being prosecuted/pursued for the tax payments you propose, says that there is likely nothing in the ISR that requires retired gringos living in Mexico to pay taxes on the pension and 401K income they receive from foreign countries.

       Answering your question: As I wrote in a previous reply to you, I know at least 5 retired US citizens here in Mexico who have made substantial withdrawals from their 401Ks, and their accountants have said nothing about owing taxes in Mexico.
       Enjoy the weekend,
       steve

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         February 18, 2013 at 1:37 pm

         Reply UNDER CONSTRUCTION… please pop back later to see the final version

         Check out the 1993 Mexico US Tax Treaty http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/mexico.pdf

         ARTICLE 10
         Dividends
         1. Dividends paid by a company which is a resident of a Contracting State to a resident of the other
         Contracting State may be taxed in that other State.
         2. Such dividends may also be taxed in the Contracting State of which the company paying the
         dividends is a resident, and according to the laws of that State. However, if the beneficial owner of the
         dividends is a resident of the other Contracting State, except as provided in paragraph 3, the tax so
         charged shall not exceed:
         a) 5 percent of the gross amount of the dividend if the beneficial owner is a company
         which owns at least 10 percent of the voting stock of the company paying the dividends;
         b) 10 percent of the gross amount of the dividends in other cases.
         This paragraph shall not affect the taxation of the company in respect of the profits out of which the
         dividends are paid.
         3. For a period of five years from the date on which the provisions of this Article take effect, the
         rate of 15 percent will apply in place of the rate provided in subparagraph (b) of paragraph 2.
         4. The term “dividends” as used in this Article means income from shares or other rights, not being
         debt-claims, participating in profits, as well as income from other corporate rights which is subjected to
         the same taxation treatment as income from shares by the laws of the State of which the company
         making the distribution is a resident.
       • The Boom says:

         February 18, 2013 at 8:32 pm

         Steve, tanks for all the good information. I have to sift through it more closely but I get lost in all the contracting states. At first read social security seems only payable in the US or other nation where the expat is from. However, I have no idea if my 401K being in one state (US) and my residence being in another (Mexico) means I pay in Mexico or not. This provision makes it sound to me like I would owe taxes in Mexico and not the US, since I would be a resident of Mexico, which seems inaccurate. I’m also not clear if a 401k is considered “other similar remuneration”

         “pensions and other similar remuneration derived and beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment by that individual…shall be taxable only in that State;”
       • yucalandia says:

         February 18, 2013 at 10:53 pm

         Hi Boom,
         It would work well if you read our new article on US Taxes – 2012 – for Americans living in Mexico. (rather than this Immigration law article?) Tax Issues for Americans Living and Working in Mexico – A Redux for 2012

         This new article was spurred to document (add references) our answers to your questions, describing how you owe ZERO Mexican taxes on US Social Security or US Pension disbursements – regardless of where you receive the check.

         See the section on all the Articles of the US-Mexico Tax Convention (Treaty), focusing on the one describing how US SSI benefits are taxable only in the USA: Pension income and Social Security benefits .

         Just as in any legal document, you need to know who the defined parties are in the treaty. The opening articles of the treaty define the “States” as the two nations, the United States of Mexico and the USA. So, for US Social Security benefit payments: The “Contracting State” is not some US state that is being eroded by rising ocean levels or global warming, but instead it is the United States of America. For Mexico’s IMSS payments to her retirees, the “Contracting State” is the United States of Mexico. This means: IMSS benefits are taxable only by Mexico, and US SSI benefits are taxable only by the USA.
         Hang in there,
         steve
141. The Boom says:

     February 17, 2013 at 7:10 pm

     That is good to know that retirees aren’t paying in Mexico on their 401IKs. Do you know any expats still working for a Mexican company who have withdrawn on their 401Ks or had other cap gains worthy transactions who have not had to pay?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 17, 2013 at 7:40 pm

       None of them were working for a Mexican company.

       So far, I checked on the accountants we know, and they only speak Spanish.

       You might want to sign-on to Yolisto. Yolisto is almost universally populated by gringos who do not speak Spanish, so they must find professionals who speak English. You could also ask there for referrals to a US accountant who knows the US – Mexican Tax treaty and IRS rules for US citizens residing in Mexico.
       steve

       Reply
142. The Boom says:

     February 23, 2013 at 9:53 pm

     Steve, Have never been able to get in touch with a Mexican accountant, although referred to 4. Have read your information again and really appreciate the thought going into it, especially when you were sick.

     Still struggling with:
     1. not sure whether a 401K fits under dividends or annuities, pension or other similar…that makes the two issues next more confusing to me.

     2. if I read this right that means if I am a resident of Mexico then I am liable for tax on my US retirement accounts paid to be if I am a resident of Mexico. Correct? because of “except insofar as the dividends are paid to a resident of that state.”
     “A Contracting State may not impose any tax on dividends paid by a company which is not a
     resident of that State, except insofar as the dividends are paid to a resident of that State”

     3. still struggle to find any mention of an ira or other type of retirement account. seems to be the focus on pensions and annuities and their definition of annuities doesn’t cover an IRA for example unless that falls under “similar remuneration.”

     This section seems to not pertain also because, if I’m reading it right (and I could easily be reading it wrong), then this just relates to people who earned money in a state and are a resident of that same state so the other state can’t tax it. meaning, I’m guessing, anything a resident of Mexico earned in Mexico can’t be taxed in the US.

     ARTICLE 19
     Pensions, Annuities, Alimony, and Child Support
     1. Subject to the provisions of Article 20 (Government Service):
     a) pensions and other similar remuneration derived and beneficially owned by a resident
     of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment by that individual or another
     individual resident of the same Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State
     +++++++++++++++

     All kind of a mind bender for me I must admit.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 23, 2013 at 10:30 pm

       In my readings of the 1993 Tax Convention, I believe that since the exempted annuities and pensions are described as remuneration “in consideration of past employment” – then: Article 19 exclusions are intended to cover income from investments that are related to past employment (plans set up and operated by past employers). If your 401K was set up as part of compensating workers – in the form of employers matching employee income – then they would qualify. It is difficult for me to see how IRAs fit under Article 19 exemptions.

       Article 1 would seem to cover the IRA income – where Mexico must accept the exemptions, exceptions, credits, etc offered by the USA. Retirement accounts where you had no US tax exemptions or exceptions, and where they were not directly related to your work, would then have dividends or interest that would seem to be taxed as ordinary gains.

       I would be very cautious in describing yourself or characterizing yourself as a “resident of Mexico”. Really, as I said before, there are at least 4 different types of residency under the various US and Mexican laws. As I described in the article I wrote to address your questions, your type and levels of international tax liability HINGE on the issue of residency, as defined by the 1993 Tax Convention and the I.S.R.

       Finally, all of these items are described for education and entertainment purposes only, as we are not tax professionals. Readers should talk with their tax professionals on each and every one of their concerns to find out the real story. Hopefully, our perspectives can give you good starting points for productive discussions with your tax professionals.
       steve

       Reply
143. Mike Nault says:

     February 25, 2013 at 9:27 am

     Finally now have our Permanente cards. Am hearing there is a provision in the new law that a Permanente holder cannot be out of the country for more than 180 days or the status will be cancelled! Anything to this? can anyone quote the section of the law that says this?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 25, 2013 at 12:56 pm

       Hey Mike,
       Congrats on the new Permanente cards!

       There is nothing in the May 2011 INM law, and after 20 or so readings/reviews of the Lineamineto’s sections on Residente Permanente, there are no restrictions on how long you can be out of Mexico.

       Read Article 44 of the Lineamientos:
       Artículo 44. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, de residente temporal a residente permanente:

       ~ Vigencia de la autorización: Indefinida.
       1 año en caso de menores de 3 años de edad.
       4 años en caso de mayores de 3 años y menores de 18 años de edad.

       ~ Información importante para el usuario:
       – La persona extranjera en caso de resolución positiva, deberá presentar los requisitos correspondientes, para la expedición de documento migratorio por autorización de condición de estancia en términos del artículo 33 de los presentes Lineamientos.
       – La persona extranjera que cambie de residente temporal a residente permanente, deberá continuar informando cualquier cambio de estado civil, cambio de nacionalidad por una diversa a la cual ingresó, domicilio o lugar de trabajo de acuerdo a lo señalado en el artículo 63 de la Ley.
       En caso de no cumplir con dicha obligación se hará acreedor a las sanciones previstas en el artículo 158 de la Ley
       

       So, the official INM rules regarding Residente Permanente permits have NO restrictions on how long you can be out of Mexico.

       Maybe someone is flashing back to the old FM2 rules???
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
144. Pam says:

     February 25, 2013 at 2:02 pm

     New Question: We’re partway through the process of being granted our Residencia Permanente cards but they likely won’t be ready before we have to fly home to Canada to work; so we will need the temporary exit permit good for 60 days (at which point we’d have to come back to pick up cards). Is there any way we can have a representative pick up our cards and courier them to us, without our having to return?
     We have been given two answers so far: 1.) No, because we must return to Mexico within 60 days once we fly out with that permit. or 2.) Maybe, if we drive out of Mexico without applying for the exit permit, then it wouldn’t show as an exit and we could do that. If this is true, could we then simply return in six months to pick up our cards/finish the process?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 25, 2013 at 2:43 pm

       Hi Pam,
       Good good questions.

       I understand that these are specific to your INM office, so you should contact them to see if they would approve you to authorize a POA for a representative to pick up your cards.

       I personally see a no problems with this proposal, as long as the courier gets the cards to you. Because INM cannot guarantee that you receive the cards, they may say “no”, on the chance that you would NOT have the cards in your possession when you re-enter Mexico. If you do not get the cards by courier: You cannot use a visitor’s permit to re-enter, as you would be penalized for having 2 INM permits (easily tracked by INM’s computer systems). You could try to re-enter on your letter, but the letter would be expired.

       Even if the courier works: The INM computer will show that you have have an open letter, but received your new INM Residency cards. Will the INM agent who checks your passports will find the open letter as a problem when they enter your passport #’s into the INM computer?

       I see no problems with the exit process: It is the return to Mexico that gets messy. You really do not want to get stuck when returning into Mexico… e.g. It is no fun paying fines for simultaneously having 2 authorized permits (the letter and the cards).

       If you can get INM to authorize your proposal, and they give you strong assurances of no problems returning, then it sounds like a good plan.

       Happy trails.
       steve

       Reply
       • pambarnsley says:

         February 25, 2013 at 3:04 pm

         Thanks, Steve. We’ll ask our INM agent again. Fingers crossed!
         Pam
145. Iqbal Muhammad Al Muktadir says:

     February 25, 2013 at 5:26 pm

     Hi, I am Engineer Iqbal Muktadir, I am in Mexico under 6 months multiple entries FMM tourist visa. My question is:- Can I become eligible to apply here US embassy for tourist or study or any types of visit visa? Is it possible to get USA visa & can travel & tour there for some days?
     Please let me know ASAP.
     Thank you for your Co-operation.
     Regards,
     Iqbal Muktadir

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 25, 2013 at 5:31 pm

       Hello Iqbal,
       Yes, you can apply at any US Consulate or the US Embassy for a visa to visit the USA.
       steve

       Reply
146. Iqbal Muktadir says:

     February 26, 2013 at 11:57 pm

     Thanks for your Information. But now question is: For how many days or months I can get the USA visa? Please can you tell me? Here in my position of FMM visa status, can I apply for work visa for USA in Mexico US Embassy or US Consulate? Should I be eligible to get work visa for USA in this condition of mine? Please let me know ASAP.
     Thank you again for anticipation of your kind Cooperation.
     Best Regards,
     Iqbal Muktadir

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 27, 2013 at 8:01 am

       Hello Iqbal,
       Yes you can apply for a work visa. I understand that the American Consulate in Juarez is the one that has the capabilities to handle these requests – as they also handle the requests for Permanent Residence, but you really should contact them.

       The length and type of your visa depends on their determinations of your personal data/qualifications.
       Contact them:
       http://ciudadjuarez.usconsulate.gov/
       U.S. Consulate General
       Paseo de la Victoria #3650
       Fracc. Partido Senecú
       Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua, Mexico C.P. 32543

       Hours
       Information Window hours: 7:30am – 1pm
       Interview hours 7:30 – 4:15

       Visa Information/Appointments
       For information on how to make or change an appointment to apply for an immigrant (resident) visa or to provide information on your visa case, contact our applicant service center at any of the numbers provided. You may also visit the main applicant service center website.
       Please use these steps for our non-immigrant visa application system.

       General Information & Non-Emergency American Citizen Services: (656) 227-3000
       steve

       Reply
147. ph1tx says:

     March 1, 2013 at 12:08 am

     Steve, I loved the quote Feb. 25 of Article 44 in Espanol . Do you have the part of Article 44 in Spanish for the requirements for Financial independence for Permanante Residente ? Or where can I find it ? Question : If you 12 months of bank statement shows an average balance of $10,000 ++ and usually a deposit of $ 3-5,000 be null as income if in Oct. I only deposited $204. and in Dec .only $1400 ? P. V. immigration is saying I need to show the deposits every MONTH.
     I also have Certificate of Deposit accounts at $95,000 each ( 2 of them ) or $190,000. The statements are trimestre /quarterly and my immigration guy ( my go between) said they would not accept them if they were not MONTHLY . I also, own my condo ,have elect. , fidicomiso, property tax and maint. fee reciepts all paid in full . What do you advise, Steve? THANK YOU!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 1, 2013 at 8:17 am

       Hi ph,
       “ Artículo 44. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, de residente temporal a residente permanente:”
       …
       “ Requisitos:
       1. Original y copia del pasaporte, documento de identidad y viaje o documento oficial que haya exhibido para obtener la condición de estancia de residente temporal;
       2. Tarjeta de residente temporal, válida y vigente;
       3. Comprobante del pago de derechos por la recepción y estudio de la solicitud de cambio de condición, de conformidad con lo establecido en la Ley Federal de Derechos;
       4. En caso de sistema de puntos, deberá presentar los documentos que acrediten los indicadores y puntaje mínimo requeridos conforme al acuerdo que al efecto se publique en el Diario Oficial de la Federación;

       5. En el caso de pensionados o jubilados deberán presentar:
       a) Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinticinco mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos doce meses, o
       b) Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con ingresos o pensión mensual libre de gravámenes equivalente a quinientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses, y

       6. En caso de que hayan transcurrido cuatro años desde que cuenta con permiso de residente temporal, deberá indicar expresamente en su solicitud de trámite que solicita el cambio por esta vía.”

       I highlighted the KEY PHRASE: con saldo promedio mensual … The key word is “promedio” = average. Now, if you can educate a Mexican INM clerk what an AVERAGE is – then you get what you want. Averages are the sum of the individual values, divided by the number of values. Averages are NOT the individual values…. So, in formal legal and mathematical terms, the individual values almost always vary above and below the Average value… Because the Average is the central value, there are almost always values below the Average… (except for the exotic case when all the values are the same…)

       ~ Note that the law does not stipulate either a minimum value nor does it say you must have the same amount every month – especially when looking at an account’s monthly balance. Point out that they are adding requirements that do not exist in the Ley de Immigración.

       These concepts can be difficult to explain to a typical Canadian or American, so, I wish you much luck in explaining it a Mexican clerk who may have almost no statistics education…

       Maybe also quote:
       “Promedio:”
       “Suma de todos los valores numéricos dividida entre el número de valores para obtener un número que pueda representar de la mejor manera a todos los valores del conjunto. El promedio de un grupo de números es el mismo que la media aritmética.

       Por ejemplo, el promedio de 6 números (3, 4, 2, 2, 5, 2) es
       (3 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 5 + 2) ÷ 6 = 3 ”

       Our link to the Lineamientos (to see Article 44) is at the end of this/our article in: Sources and References for the New INM Law and Rules

       Re your IMN agent not accepting your financial documents:
       I think you should make a letter in good Spanish explaining a quote of the law (focusing on the linchpin: “promedio“), explaining Average, and explaining the nature of the documents that are available (quarterly vs monthly), do your best to request and get copies of financial documents that show daily or monthly changes/transactions, translate key terms on each of the financial documents, and then have an INM supervisor review the letter and the documents.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
148. andrew says:

     March 1, 2013 at 1:00 pm

     Hi everyone , hope someone can help me out here?….. I am andrew from australia, married to a mexican for 5 years and we are settling in cancun now. I applied for temporary resident card in Jan 06 2013, and now it is 2nd march and still have’nt got my card. Te INM officials have said that my application has been approved but the card will come from mexico city, so it is out of their hands. but this is taking too long and was wondering if there could be a way to fasten the process or if there coud be any problem in the process which i could identify. all my papers were apostilled and were accepted without problem … I have given my fingerprints and photos already a month ago
     any sort of help regarding this is will be appreciated….
     Thanks…

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 1, 2013 at 4:55 pm

       Hi Andrew,
       Cancun INM office is notorious for being very very slow.

       If they have approved your application, then GREAT. All you have to do is wait.
       steve

       Reply
149. Marilyn Britton says:

     March 2, 2013 at 2:57 pm

     Great information here—wished I had read it in Nov!!! Awaiting tarjeta de Res. Permanente from DF. Initially in Nov. we were told the new tarjeta would allow us to keep our vehicle with US plates. I’m just discovering that that is incorrect.
     We drive from Merida to Indiana in the spring and return in the fall. Should one of us revoke the Tarj. de Res. Perm when we cross the border then just return with the vehicle in the fall and get a Visitante paper good for 180 days? According to IMN yesterday, we would have to do this at the border. Anyone have info on this, suggestions, or an opinion? The other option the IMN official gave me was to revoke Perm Res then apply for Temp when I get home. But, it would seem that I would be in the same position in four years.

     Thanks so much for your incredible work on this site and for your concern for all of us.
     Sincerely, Marilyn Britton

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 2, 2013 at 7:58 pm

       Hi Marilyn,
       Yes, you seem to understand things just fine.

       I can’t tell you what route to choose with your INM and Aduana permits. There really is zero/zip/nada for an official national Aduana policy on Residente Permanente cardholders with TIPs. No one knows what the ultimate disposition will be. Some Aduana offices like Queretaro are approving extensions of their TIP expiration dates for everyone (both Temporary and Permanente Residents), while Progreso Aduana and Puerta Vallarta Aduana are telling everyone with even Residente Temporal permits, that they must take their cars out of Mexico immediately… We just have to wait and see what Aduana DF ultimately decides – over-ruling all the variations of local policies used by local Aduana offices now.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
150. Marilyn Britton says:

     March 3, 2013 at 6:27 am

     Thanks Steve for your response. I wrote to the US Consulate in DF last night, I remember seeing a name and email address for a person connected to Aduana in someone’s blog. Please send any addresses you feel would be helpful to us in this situation. I urge everyone in this situation to write whomever so expediate this decision. We are definitely caught in a nightmare.

     Again, my appreciation for your work. Marilyn

     Reply
151. ph1tx says:

     March 3, 2013 at 12:19 pm

     Steve, Thank you again for ALL of your efforts. I was up until 5 a m the other night Re reading all of your posts and links, and Article 44 and 34 and the Spanish links, too. WOW ! You are terrific! Question: I am leaving on an extended 1/2 world tour for 65 days. I understand that if I don’t get my Residente Permanente card from DF before I leave I can get a letter to be OUT of Mex . for 60 days. What should I do since I will be out 65 and on a SHIP , until the last when I FLY from Singapore to Puerto Vallarta , Mex. Because of air schedules I have 1 overnight in Houston. Sould see my doctor for an ear ache? or what is your best suggestion. I can pick up my card ON that one NIGHT in Houston, because my friends here in PV can pick up the card and bring it to Houston , so it will be there when I get there, just before returning to PV.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 3, 2013 at 6:17 pm

       Hi Ph,
       You have a unique situation.

       Check with your INM office to see if you can authorize a legal representative (via a Power of Attorney) to receive your new Residente Permanente for you. If so, they could bring it to you in Houston. In no case would you use a Visitante permit to return into Mexico (because the computer flags you for having 2 visas, you get fines, and problems).

       If they do not let you authorize a rep to pick up your finished ID card, then find out what the penalty is for returning after 60 days. If you cannot handle the penalties (???), then you could abandon your Permanente Residency application, and start over??
       steve

       Reply
152. Chris says:

     March 5, 2013 at 4:47 pm

     Hi Steve,
     Just been reading through your website. I appreciate the great effort you have put in to help people like me!
     I wondered if you could help shed some light on my situation for me? I am a British Citizen (currently in London) waiting for my residency/work permit to be authorised by the INM. The visa application in Mexico is being handled by my company’s lawyers in Mexico D.F and all the information I have to go on is via El Seguimiento de Trámite. On 4/3/13, the status of my application changed to “presentarse en una oficina del inm”.
     I contacted INM by phone, the speaker advised that when that comes up, the checks have been completed, but then spoke to my company/Lawyer in Mexico this afternoon (5/3/13) who advised that wasn’t the case, and that I need to wait for “Enviado a SRE” for it to be completed.

     I just wanted to ask your thoughts on that, and how long one might be waiting for the application to be completed from this point? (Assuming my company’s Lawyer has passed on the relevant info and answered any questions they have).

     Thanks in advance Steve,

     From a very impatient Chris!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 5, 2013 at 7:22 pm

       Hi Chris,
       “the status of my application changed to “presentarse en una oficina del inm”.”

       This is good. It says that your application has been officially filed and accepted by the INM office.
       The company lawyer is correct, that you need to wait for the message telling you to come into the INM office.

       In the next step, they could ask you to come into the INM office to give them more information or documents. or They could tell you to come in to drop off fotos and get fingerprinted. This next notice should come in a week or 2. After you drop off fotos and get fingerprinted, figure another 2 weeks for them to send your information and papers in to Aduana DF, where they make the ID cards, and then they call you in to pickup the new ID card.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • Chris says:

         March 6, 2013 at 1:02 am

         Thanks Steve,
         This is where it gets a little hazy for me though. As I am not in Mexico, I have been advised that once “Enviado a SRE” appears on the online check, I then need to then make an appointment at the Mexican Consulate in London, from there it will take only 2 days for my permit to be ready/completed?
         I assume its there that I will have to give photos and finger prints maybe, and it seems these processes in the UK consulate are much faster to that of INM.
         I was really just trying to get a better idea of how much longer (approx) I would have to wait for the instruction to go to the UK consulate to complete the remainder of the process.

         Aboomerabroad, I gave my New Mexican employers everything they needed on 31st Jan. as I understand it, they submitted all the documents and application on 8th Feb. However, on the Online check, it appears the application was only officially registered on 15th Feb.
         I have been advised by the Mexican Consulate in London that this process with the INM will take, quote, “No More than 20 days”.
         Today is the 20th day.
     • Holly Alana says:

       May 23, 2015 at 5:21 am

       Hi Chris,

       I am also from the UK, waiting for my visa approval (impatiently – I can’t wait to leave!)

       Are you in Mexico now? If possible, would really appreciate some more info on the procedure and how it all turned out! I’m a bit confused by the out-of-date or Spanish information online (I’m not that good yet!)

       All the best,

       Holly

       Reply
153. aboomerabroad says:

     March 5, 2013 at 7:25 pm

     Chris, how long have you been waiting?

     Steve, how long is it taking these days for the work permits? I can fly into Mexico in early July to start at beginning of August. I’m debating whether it will be faster to deal with it along with the company in country and then fly out to pick it up as the school advises. However, I hate to go to all that extra expense and possibly miss the start of the semester at beginning of August.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 5, 2013 at 9:43 pm

       People in locations around Mexico report 4 to 6 weeks total for the INM processes, except for Q. Roo, which is taking much longer.
       steve

       Reply
154. Jennifer Hill says:

     March 7, 2013 at 4:25 pm

     Hi Steve, Thanks.
     A clarification since I wasn’t so clear: what is the difference between Visa de Residente Permanente vs. Residente Permanente Card for example. Why is one a card and one a visa? Thanks!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 7, 2013 at 8:16 pm

       Hi Jennifer,
       Please re-read the previous answer.

       The Residency Card is what you apply for to stay in Mexico. The visa is a one-time usage permit to allow you to enter Mexico for the specific purpose of finishing your Residency Card application process. SRE/Consulates issue visas. SEGOB/INM issues residency cards. Different organizations with different permits, used for different purposes.
       steve

       Reply
155. Marilyn Britton says:

     March 7, 2013 at 4:33 pm

     Hi Jennifer. Hope i give you the right info. have been trying to work through this myself.

     Basically, all permits are called tarjetas or “cards”. None are visas. If you have been here for more than 4 years, you will be placed into “residente permanente” status. If not, you are placed into “residente temporal”: which after 3 or 4 years you will automatically be placed into the other.

     With NONE of the above are you allowed to have a car imported from the US. ONLY with the tourist visa at the border (good for 180 days) OR with a tarjeta temporal ONLY AVAILABLE in the US (or other country) will you be allowed to “import temporarily” a car with foreign license plates.

     Basically, you don’t have much choice. Hope that helps. I’m just going thro this myself—what a headache. best—m

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 7, 2013 at 8:32 pm

       Hi Marilyn,
       We much appreciate your information, but it really is not quite accurate and is modestly misleading. Please reread our prior reply, and the other latest reply if you want to understand how these things work (or feel free to ignore the whole Consulate visa vs. INM permit issue, and continue with your current successful approach to getting a residency card – since you do not need a visa to do this).

       e.g. Tourist visas are only issued to residents of countries who have no immigration treaty with Mexico (like Belarus).** Residents of these countries must be approved in advance to enter Mexico (by SRE/Consulates), or they are immediately shipped out of Mexico. In contrast: the USA and Canada have immigration treaties with Mexico, so American and Canadian citizens can simply drive or fly to Mexico, and they are automatically granted visitors permits by INM/SEGOB.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       **Check out http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php/page/Paises_Visa/en.html for a list of countries whose citizens must apply for an entry visa before coming to visit Mexico.

       Reply
156. Mike Nault says:

     March 8, 2013 at 10:35 am

     We arrived in Mexico on January 16,2013 under our FM3 Visas. Those visas were scheduled to expire January 21, at which time we were going to go through the annual renewal process. We were advised that under the new Immigration Law we HAD to apply for Permanente since we were no longer qualified for the “Temporal ” status, due to having had our FM3s for 4 years. So, we now have Permanente cards. Little did we know that we therefore cannot keep our foreign plated vehicle in Mexico with that card, AND THAT WE CANNOT BE OUT OF THE COUNTRY FOR MORE THAN 6 MONTHS!!!! We own a home in Mexico but are only there 8 weeks a year. Can we revert from Permanente back to Residente Temporal so we can keep our foreign plated car in Mexico and avoid the 180 out of country limitation? Mike

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 8, 2013 at 10:42 am

       Hey Mike,
       Where did you get the idea that you cannot be outside Mexico for more than 6 months with a Residente Permanente?

       We have read the applicable sections of the law and the regulations roughly 30 times, and we cannot find anything about this. Is it an internet rumor?

       The car’s Temporary Import Permit expiration date issue is for real. There is one report that one Aduana office is approving 1 year extensions of TIPs for Permanent Residents (e.g. Aduana de Queretaro), but that may change soon. In theory, you could surrender your Residente Permanente, and apply at your local Mexican Consulate office in the USA/Canada to get a Residente Temporal… But you would face the same issue again in 4 years.
       Hope things work out for you,
       steve

       Reply
157. Linda Leonard says:

     March 8, 2013 at 10:42 am

     I was told there was no longer any residency limitations, and that we may come & go as we wish. Also, as I understand it, aduana controls the vehicle issues and has not yet issued their new regulations to go with the new immigration laws. That means we don’t know about the foreign plated car issue at this time, and probably won’t for some time to come. Do I have all this right?

     Reply
158. Mike Nault says:

     March 8, 2013 at 10:56 am

     Thanks much Steve….just for clarification, is a person entitled to “roll over” /renew a Temporal, or is one required to go to Permanente or FMT at the expiration of a Temporal?

     Reply
159. Mike Nault says:

     March 8, 2013 at 11:23 am

     Steve…sorry, I didn’t answer your question about where I heard that you couldn’t be out of Mexico more than 180 consecutive days with a Permanente….it is posted as a requirement of Permanente on the Ajijiclaw.com site. Mike

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 9, 2013 at 9:28 am

       Hi Mike,
       There are several factual and legal errors in the Ajijiclaw’s website’s claims about both Temporal and Permanente INM permits, so I hesitate to believe their claim that Residente Permanente permit holders cannot be outside Mexico for more than 6 consecutive months.

       Still checking the official rules and law. A search of one version of the Ley Aduanero Lineamientos, shows no 6 month (or 180 day) restrictions for being out of Mexico. (Microsoft Word’s search engine is 100% reliable – and searches of: 6, seis, 6 meses, seis meses, ciento ochenta and 180 … turn up nada/zip/zero entries for restricting Residente Permanente rights…)
       steve

       Reply
160. rubygeorgina says:

     March 9, 2013 at 9:51 am

     Thanks for that … I also questioned this information on their website. I have been following your threads and have read the Ley Aduanero and see no reference to 6 month restriction. Thanks for all your good work and information!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 9, 2013 at 10:23 am

       I plan to head down to our local INM office next week, to confirm this.

       Ironically, when the May 2011 INM law was published, the lawyers were the slowest group to come-up-to-speed with the changes, then when the Nov. 8, 2012 final rules were published, the lawyers and many immigration “facilitators” were again the slowest groups to come-up-to-speed. (Maybe they are entrenched in their old thinking? – resisting change?) The advice in the meantime from most lawyers and many facilitators has been heavily flawed and very susceptible to rumors, myths, and hold-over ideas from the past. I have listened-to and watched 4 different “expert lawyer” presentations, and in each and all of the 4, there were multiple audience members who knew more than the “experts”. The audience members consistently pointed out the flaws, faults, and factual errors in the lawyers perceptions, trumping the lawyer’s opinions with knowledge of the new regulations and first hand evidence from their recent experiences at local INM offices.

       For context: The expat sites like Rollybrook and ours were the first to read and publish summaries on the new INM rules, and also the first to report real-world first-person accounts of how the new systems have actually worked. Still, we could not do it without good help and first-hand stories from all the readers.
       steve

       Reply
161. stevecinq says:

     March 9, 2013 at 10:51 pm

     Myself and my partner entered Mexico on temporary resident visas on March 5. We’d applied in Australia for visas with work permits but this has apparently not happened despite providing all kinds of apostilled degree certificates and references. Our lawyer here in Guadalajara is now telling us that the cost of obtaining work-permitted cards will be just under M$50,000(!) and will require the issuing of the originally approved cards (“investista/professionalista”) then the reissuing of the cards with “permiso para trabajar”. And this cost includes only single-year validity cards.

     We’re not quite confident about this process and the costs and would like to know what you think.

     Our lawyer’s fees (per person) are:

     Temporary Resident Card (1 Year): M$5,980
     Permit To Work: M$5,365
     Translation Work: M$2,700
     Legal Fees: M$9,600
     Total: M$23,645 per person

     Finding the actual government costs has proven difficult so any comments to that effect would be much appreciated.

     Steve C

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 10, 2013 at 11:26 am

       Hi Steve,
       The fees you list are the first we have seen. I have a friend in DF who did this by herself, and I can check with her, to confirm if your lawyer’s fees were in-line with what she paid. The “Legal Fees” seem a little steep – where they may have billed you for their learning & research time??
       steve

       Reply
       • stevecinq says:

         March 11, 2013 at 6:23 pm

         The lawyer ended up virtually halving the INM fees – saying that the officer at the INM was confused – after we showed him some info from here and other sources. So we’ve decided to just do it ourself when we get to Queretaro. We went ahead with the translation work, though I can’t really understand how it costs 200 bucks to translate the words ‘Bachelor of Science’!
       • yucalandia says:

         March 11, 2013 at 6:46 pm

         Hilarious !

         You may find that some agencies require “official” or “certified” translations of key documents. Ironically, this morning I was just directed to a State of Yucatan government office that does official (free – gratis) translations of English documents to Spanish: The Office of Maya Culture… “Instituto del Indemaya” on Calle 66 x 65y63 … to get my apostilled Illinois Birth Certificate translated. (and yes, it was a “long form” version – the only kind used by Illinois)

         Go figure, a Govt. office of Maya culture, with boldly posted Maya language signs describing “entrance” “door” , “reception” “table” , etc, houses the function of official English-Spanish translations… or maybe I just got lucky (maybe they did us a favor or maybe they only translate documents for the Registro Civil?). People needing quick official translations should note that this free service takes 1 to 3 days to issue the certified version.
         Happy Trails,
         steve
162. Thomas says:

     March 11, 2013 at 10:19 am

     Hi Steve,

     Thanks for your website, it is very accurate and helpful !
     I need tour help on my case. I am 25, French and I have got a master degree from a top school in France. I am coming soon to DF to make some job interviews and I want to be sure of what I can answer to the interviewer when coming down to the work visa topic and I want to save them hassles

     Please correct me if I am wrong, I need to follow these steps :
     1) I need to go to a local INM office with copies of my passport, photos, my master degree with apostille, oferta de empleo and the numero de constancia de mi empleador. They will give me a NUT number.
     2) Once approved, I need to go to a mexican consulate abroad (US, France, whatsoever) to get a special visitante visa
     3) Then I have got 30 days to go back to Mexico and check with my local INM office to finish up the process

     What I don’t understand is that I called several times the Mexican consulate in Paris and they tell me that my potential employer needs to make all the process ! Cannot I do it myself while I will be in Mexico (I understood the fact that at one point I will need to go a mexican consulate outside of Mexico)

     As you see, I am bit lost with the whole process and I just want to look attractive for a potential employer by saving them time consuming stuff that I can do myself

     Looking forward to your reply

     Thomas

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 11, 2013 at 1:39 pm

       Hi Thomas,
       You have asked very good questions.

       While you are here, I would ask your INM about exactly what is needed, and if they require that your potential employer makes the process. They should be able to give you a printed list of the requirements that you can take to your Mexican Consulate in Paris. Since the Consulates are NOT part of INM/SEGOB, they tend to not know the precise rules. Consulates are part of SRE (External affairs), so they are supposed to defer to INM/SEGOB rules on residency related immigration matters.
       steve

       Reply
     • The Boom says:

       May 6, 2013 at 5:32 am

       Thomas, what did you find out to be the correct process. My would be employer doesn’t seem to be able to move this along due to typical disorganization and laziness. If it is to happen it seems as though I need to do it. Hoever, when I contacted my local consulate, they told me the same thing yours did – that the employer has to lead the process.

       Reply
163. Holly Hunter says:

     March 11, 2013 at 11:27 am

     For what it’s worth, our facilitator also reports no limit on out of country time for Peramente or Temporal. Interesting that I heard an agent for another local attorney in PV give really bad advice, so take care. The couple asked if Permanente would protect them from paying capital gains upon the sale of their house, and the agent said “yes, along with some other things”. Yikes! he also told them they need to prove $2600 each without asking how many current years they have on their fm3.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 11, 2013 at 12:21 pm

       Hi Holly,
       Good stuff.
       We can get zero confirmation on that one attorney’s claim of no more than 6 consecutive months out of Mexico for permanent residents.

       You are spot on about the homeowners exemption for capital gains: Many Notarios are still saying you must have at least a citizenship application in process, plus 5 years in that location as your primary residence and fiscal home, plus 5 years of power and water bills in your name, plus, plus, plus… So, having permament residence may mean squat with most Notarios.

       The $2,600 each can be how it goes – depending on what your Consulate decides or what your INM agent decides. They have the discretionary option to modify it downward if you have monthly income, or Mexican real estate, etc. or they may not give the applicant break… If they are playing hardball, one option is to have one person get their Permanent Residence using the couple’s financials, and then have the spouse piggy-back on that approval later as a dependent/family member – partly avoiding the steep financial requirements for 2 people.

       1 + 1 does not always add up to 2…

       THANKS!
       steve

       Reply
164. Linda Leonard says:

     March 12, 2013 at 2:38 pm

     Now that we are permanent residents, I want to look at the whole package of becoming naturalized citizens. Is there somewhere I can read about this? I realize we have to wait at least 6 months before applying, and that once we apply it can take a long time for this process..even more than a year. I just want to start my homework and learn about the requirements for us, and the pros & cons to taking this step. I also realize that getting that status means no more bank trust. Now I want more info. Suggestions??

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 12, 2013 at 4:19 pm

       Hi Linda,
       Have you read this section: Immigration Requirements that Relate to Becoming a Naturalized Citizen and also use the links provided to read the SRE website sections.
       steve

       Reply
165. rubygeorgina says:

     March 12, 2013 at 2:40 pm

     So here is a new question: I was told today that because I have an FM2 (2nd renewal) with working papers I am not eligible to go directly to Permanent … that I needed to have 3 years of working papers on an FM2… any validity to this?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 12, 2013 at 4:15 pm

       Hi Ruby,
       The formal rules we have read say we need to complete 4 years on a Residente Temporal, to qualify for Residente Permanente – or have an average annual savings balance of $125,000 or 6 months average income/deposits of $2,500 a month.

       You may read or hear examples where some people do not meet these requirements, but are given Permanent Residency cards at the discretion of their local office. Under a points system, and under the local office’s discretion, they can consider combinations of: property ownership, partially meeting several requirements (some income and some savings), adding years from prior INM permits (to get a total of 4 or more), and also considering your profession. Since there is no formal points system yet, some INM offices are doing it their own non-routine ways.

       Your local INM office does have the right (discretion/latitude) to say you only need to complete 3 years of a working FM2, to qualify for Residente Permanente. Different INM agents in the same local INM office also have the right to require full compliance with the Requisitos (requirements).
       steve

       Reply
166. Amy B. says:

     March 13, 2013 at 9:59 pm

     Hi. I keep reading that the local INM offices have these fairly wide discretionary powers in how they apply the rules. Our situation – one year with an FM3, up for renewal soon – retired and own property in Mexico well over the prescribed value – would possibly qualify for necessary income (approx. $3200./mo), depending on those discretionary powers … question … are we better off doing a more straight forward change to Residente Temporal at the Playa del Carmen office or do you think we have a good chance of being approved for the Permanent card? (which is truly the one we would prefer) How does one go about finding out what the local policy might be? Truly appreciate any help/advice you can provide.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 13, 2013 at 11:09 pm

       Hi Amy,
       Take in your information, be prepared to give them summary information, and ask them. In our Merida office, it can depend on the person assigned to your case. I was just talking today with a fellow whose lawyer has worked with our office for over a decade, and knows the personnel well. He classifies our INM employees as “a few very good ones”, “a few who are OK”, “a few who are imbeciles” and “some trainees”. If you get that 70% who are very good or OK, then *ding*- *ding* – *ding*, you win. If you get one of the imbeciles, then “oh well” – maybe if they screw up badly enough, then your case gets kicked up to a supervisor. These facts-of-life explain why some expats Residency applications are done in 4 weeks, while others stretch out to 9 weeks. This variation between INM employee competency also explains why some applicants get approved for Permanent Residency while other applicants with the same qualifications get rejected, and told they can only apply for Temporary Residency. *sigh*

       Alternately, you could check about your INM offices recent policies with people on your local expat web-forums. Unfortunately, outside of Mexconnect, many talented expats report that their local forums (from Chapala to Cozumel) have been
       ~ overrun by petty feuds,
       ~ driven by folks who really don’t know the rules,
       ~ filled with accounts of people who do not speak Spanish well (and seriously misunderstand what they were told),
       ~ folks who love to talk about things they know a little corner of,
       ~ people who repeat rumors and pass-off gossip as fact, and
       ~ many who ignore facts that contradict their personal pecadillos.

       Unfortunately, since there have been so many changes in the past 4 months with INM and Aduana, even many lawyers and professional facilitators do not keep up with current realities.

       We do carefully read the Aduana and INM rules, then confirm our understandings with 3 different talented lawyers, and we track posts/reports on 4 different expat forums, but we do not claim to keep up with the latest realities across all the individual INM offices and Aduana offices in Mexico. This means we rely heavily on talented reader’s first hand reports on their latest experiences. After the Nov 2012 changes, most old-timers predicted at least 6 months of variations and turmoil until the offices settle into predictable routines. We are counting down the months until May… *grin*

       Thanks to all who come back here and explain how their processes worked!
       steve

       Reply
167. ph1tx says:

     March 16, 2013 at 3:09 am

     I had 12 months of bank statements well over $ 10,000 dollars average. Every month EXCEPT Oct. and Dec. I had depositis of over $ 3000. 00. Well the did NOT approve me on 2 poroga FM2 for Perm. Res.
     BUT I showed up with another checking account that showed more than $30000 for the deposits in October and December and the Accepted it and gave me my NUT and fingerprints and I am waiting for my Resid. Perm. card to come , they say probably next week . My friend got his back in 2 wks from Mex City DF after giving fingerprints, so they must have speeded up the process. Puerto Vallarta.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 16, 2013 at 7:41 am

       Hi P,
       Hooray !

       We are very glad that this worked out for you.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
168. Gary says:

     March 21, 2013 at 3:29 pm

     Steve —
     Has anyone thought that perhaps INM may revise their rules in the future vis-a-vis the requirement for people to go to Residente Permante (Inmigrado) after four years, like it or not.
     Seems like INM is going to suffer a big loss in income from all those who used to be FM3/No-Inmigrante who had no intention of ever moving to FM2 and eventual Inmigrado status. The annual revenue from FM3/No-inmigrante visa renewals is now gone when you go to Permanente.

     There are people here in Merida who have been on FM3 for 25 years. They did not want to go Permanent because they wanted to keep their cars and many are snow-birds who travel back and forth.

     When I first contacted the Hotline for INM several months ago, I made four calls and spoke with four different agents with the same question: Can I continue renewing as Residente Temporal, or do I have to go Permanente. They answered that I could stay Temporal forever, if I wanted. What they didn’t say (perhaps did not know) was that to do it, you have to leave Mexico and start the process anew in your country of origin.

     Looks like an error on their part to me. They want the revenue.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 21, 2013 at 4:22 pm

       Hi Gary,
       You may need to adjust to a different paradigm: Neither Aduana nor INM make these choices nor make the laws.

       I guess we have to decide if (instead) the Camara de Diputados … _______________. (fill in the blank)
       A. Has a plan. or
       B. Has no plan, but is aware of the current realities and forseeable future consequences of their current decisions. or
       C. Has no plan, has no awareness of current reality, but operates on some principle(s) or
       D. None of the above: They do whatever suits the people who vote for them and who pay their bills. or
       E. Hey, is it Friday, yet? Who’s mixing the margs?

       Anyway: I vote for “C”. They have a principle that Temporary means temporary. Foreigners who stay in Mexico or return repeatedly to Mexico AS TEMPORARY residents, should either … become Permanent if they are here as residents or Leave Mexico occasionally to confirm that they really are temporary. Keeping a car here indefinitely (on a perpetually renewable Temporary Aduana auto TIP) is really not temporary. Living in Mexico indefinitely on perpetually renewable Residente Temporal visas is not being a temporary resident.

       So, that’s just one guy’s guess – and it makes sense to me, and it fits the past 7 years of INM and Aduana policies.

       All the best,
       steve

       Reply
169. Holly Hunter says:

     March 21, 2013 at 3:36 pm

     I spoke to someone from the US who just payed extra to be able to retain his visa as temporal despite having over 25 years here. There is no way he is going to nationalize his truck and the same vehicle would cost (quote here) $16,000 more in Mexico.

     Reply
170. Gary says:

     March 21, 2013 at 4:35 pm

     Steve —

     I would select “C” as well. Living in Mexico and keeping a US plated car in Mexico ad infinitum is not “temporary”. I also think that when Aduana wrote the regs controlling nationalization of cars in Mexico, things were a lot different and drastically need to be changed. My opinion is that anyone who is willing to pay the import tax should be allowed to get Mexican plates on their car, but Aduana may view it differently.

     People should also realize that once their car has been nationalized with Mexican plates, they cannot take it back to the US and have it “reconverted” back to US plates. The US does not allow Mexican plated cars to be registered and tagged in the US, even if they originally had US plates.

     Happy Days!
     Gary

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 21, 2013 at 6:19 pm

       Hey Gary,
       “People should also realize that once their car has been nationalized with Mexican plates, they cannot take it back to the US and have it “reconverted” back to US plates. The US does not allow Mexican plated cars to be registered and tagged in the US, even if they originally had US plates. ”

       Really???

       How could they know we went to Mexico?

       I have checked with our counties in Colorado, and 8 years later they have no idea what we did with our vehicles nor our trailer. There was a mess at Aduana Matamoros 8 years ago, (they gave our official title and papers to some Canadians, and the Canadians got our trailer title, and we did not get the incorrect Canadian papers until 10:00 PM and the Canadians were long gone, leaving hours before without effectively checking to see if they got the correct paperwork…). Anyway, to resolve the mess, when back in Colorado a year later, I stopped by the DMV, and got a duplicate title for the trailer. I kept it simple: “The title for my trailer is gone, I need a replacement”. I then had them check on my truck records – they said: “Nothing unusual here.” , so, I replied “the title for my truck is gone too” and Colorado re-issued both titles.

       I have friends in Texas who go back and forth from central Mexico and Texas (a county near the border). He checked with friends in his TX county DMV office. They agreed. Mexico does not notify US states that we have imported into Mexico.

       If I have to go back to the USA for some reason, I have current valid Colorado titles for both the truck and trailer.

       How would I not be able to use the valid titles, and old Colorado plates, to enter Texas and get fresh temporary Texas tags? I am not trying to sneak anything through. The tags match the old truck and trailer registration… shoot, I may even get fresh Colorado registration & tags and full insurance before possibly bringing them back. I am not misrepresenting who owns the vehicle. I still am the legal owner of both truck and trailer: the owner in Mexico, the owner in the USA, and the owner in fact (possession). ??? (though I do not underestimate the desire of US government bureaucrats to want to control almost every aspect of our lives, and I do not underestimate their capacity for passing excessively controlling laws and non-sensical rules) *grin*
       steve

       Reply
171. Gary says:

     March 21, 2013 at 8:04 pm

     Steve —

     I have no idea since I do not travel back and forth across the border. I am only going by what US Customs Law says.

     I guess the US Customs Law depends on what State, and how dumb/smart/cooperative/argumentative the authorities want to be (sound familiar???).

     I don’t really care. I was just alerting people to a possible problem, which you have not experienced.

     Thanks. I will not post again.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 21, 2013 at 9:47 pm

       Gary,
       I hope I did not miscommunicate.

       I am happy with your posts. I especially like when people find the mistakes in our stuff, since it sharpens it up for everyone.

       Really, I did not know that US Customs law did not allow it.

       I asked because customs rules really can be weird. e.g. Even though we are allowed to import modest quantities of alcohol into the US, and Texas also allows modest imports, Texas still charges taxes/duties on any beer, wine, or liquor on any quantity brought in from Mexico or other US states. Nasty $100 to 1,000 fines if they catches you not declaring it. So, going into Texas, you must declare even allowed quantities.

       All the Best,
       steve

       Reply
172. Gary says:

     March 22, 2013 at 9:18 am

     Steve —
     No problem. The whole car issue is stupid from beginning to end. US Customs says NO Mexican plated cars permanently is the US. But if I nationalize a US plated car in Mexico, then drive to my home state and put the valid US plates (which I kept) back on it, how is anyone to know? Maintain registration in both countries.

     Regards, Gary

     Reply
173. michelle says:

     March 22, 2013 at 10:09 pm

     This is such a wonderful source of information, thank you!

     A couple questions if you don’t mind. We live half of the year in Rosarito, Baja California, and the other half in Quintana Roo. We cross back to the US frequently, and when we cross in Tijuana we don’t do any paperwork (since they just let you drive in without even checking your passport). When we fly to Quintana Roo we get 180 day visitor cards, which is plenty of days. We are interested in becoming permanent residents in hopes of avoiding capital gains taxes down the line if we sell our property. We will apply at a consulate in San Diego. First question: will we be granted permanent residency from the status of visitantes (we have sufficent funds)? Second question: In Quintana Roo we drive a car with Mexican plates, but in Rosarito we drive back and forth a car with US plates. If we get permanent residency cards, will we have trouble with the foreign plates? As I mentioned, entering and exiting Mexico through Tijuana doesn’t require us to show any paperwork, so I’m not sure who would exactly tell us to take the car out of the country. ?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 23, 2013 at 12:52 am

       Hi michelle,
       “First question: will we be granted permanent residency from the status of visitantes (we have sufficent funds)?
       Yes, they should approve you if you meet the Permanent Resident Requisitos listed above. If they resist, show them copies of the Lineamientos Articulo 44, Requisitos.

       “” Second question: In Quintana Roo we drive a car with Mexican plates, but in Rosarito we drive back and forth a car with US plates. If we get permanent residency cards, will we have trouble with the foreign plates? ”
       Correct, Permanent Residente are not allowed to have or drive foreign plated cars in the interior Mexico. There are special rules for the border regions, so that may be just fine… (check the rules for Fronteras)

       Happy Trails, You seem to have a great understanding of things,
       steve

       Reply
       • Jennifer Hill says:

         February 6, 2014 at 5:12 pm

         Hi Steve,
         I came across a post of yours on Mexconnect from Sept 2013 and wondered if you would please post the information for your contact at Aduana DF. We are looking for an update. Or if you have another update that would be great too. What kind of written word, an email? Your help is appreciated.

         Thanks!

         “Hey Barry,
         The most recent written word out of Aduana DF’s CIITEV office says that Residente Permanentes can keep their foreign plated cars in the Free Zones without temporary import permits, but you must keep the plates and registration current (from back in your home country/state/province), and they even mentioned maintaining a current foreign driver’s license. The foreign-plated car cannot be driven into other parts of Mexico.”
         Happy Trails,
         steve
         –
         Read-on MacDuff
174. Linda Leonard says:

     March 26, 2013 at 8:15 am

     Aduana speaks. At least that’s what one Zihua expat is saying. Here is his story and his procedure in nearby Lazaro Cardenas- the location of the nearest aduana to Zihua:

     Here is what I call “Renew Your Import Car Permit Basic 101”. This whole posting is based on my conversation with the Aduna official today in LazCard at the customs port office who is incharge of this import renewal stuff.
     First you need to know that the minute you sign for your new RESIDENTE/TEMP or PERM micracion card your vehicle importation permit is dead…expired on the spot. Mine expired while waiting for the new migracion card to arrive, and you HAVE to have it to get the extension. The very helpful head of this renewal operation in LazCard is Salvador Sanchez Ariaz. His biz email address is Salvador_arias@sat.gob.mx . His cell phone: 753-533-3201. He says to tell you that to speak English slowly and he will be able to help you. This guy is very professional and expect no games…he is all about getting you in and out.
     He says everyone…read EVERYONE …who has a car and gets a new ‘residente’ card under the new system is required to renew this car importation permit or risk loosing your car either temporarily or maybe peminately. The ZIH airport, for a while, tried to issue an import renewal but they did not have the process correct so those are now invalid. LazCard is the ONLY place to get your permit renewed!
     Here’s the process right from the horse’s mouth-
     1-call to make an appointment so he doesn’t have a bunch of people show at once
     2- show up at the guard gate 20 minutes before the appointment and call him that you are there so he can get a Aduana Police escort to take you to his office (see my pix #1 what the gate looks like and #2 the follow-the leader escort)…you will just follow the guard in your car. The guard will wait and escort you back to the gate when finished.
     3- bring with you a list on one sheet of paper –
     >your passport #
     >the VIN of your vehicle
     >your full name
     >the location of origin (California eg.)
     >the status of your new migracion card (temp or perm)
     >the make & model of your vehicle

     >your old permit #
     4- bring with you, in color, one copy of-
     >your passport photo page
     >your registration
     >your ownership title/pink slip
     >your new resident card
     >your old vehicle import permit
     There is no fee for this renewal
     I received a temporary extension paper to keep in my car at all times until the new windshield sticker arrives via mail to my home address here in Ziha. As I choose the 3 year plan, I will be good to go for the next 3 years berore I need to address this import thing again.
     He said I was the very first one to comply with the new regulations and that he was puzzled at why others have not been in to get the renewed permit. He says the guard escort and the process I had was going to be the standard operation procedure for all to comply….we will all do it this way.
     To get to his location, take #200 to #37 west and you will see it to the south just before you get to LazCard. About a 45 minute drive fro Zihua. Note: 37 does not have an onramp going west so you go over the overpass and flip a U to get it….gotta luv Mexico.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 27, 2013 at 7:20 am

       Hi Linda,
       I read some of his site. He is quoting Aduana rules and dates from dates before when Lic. Karen Villaseñor of Aduana DF started ordering local Aduana offices to allow Residente Temporal permit holders to renew the Audana TIPs. This makes his information about 3 weeks out of date.

       During times when the rules are changing, it would seem best to use the latest information. If the Aduana de Lazaro Cardenas office is still rejecting Residente Temporales to extend their TIP expiration date, have the LazCard Aduana agent, Lic. Villaseñor says to have them call her, and she will straighten them out. She says: Give them her number:
       Lic. Karen Villasenor 01-55-5802-0000 x46889
       Administracion Central — 01-55-5802-2069 ciitev_AduanaMexico@sat.gob.mx

       steve

       Reply
       • Linda Leonard says:

         April 2, 2013 at 9:09 pm

         It continues. I began inquiring as to how I can nationalize my vehicle since I feel that eventually aduana will say no foreign plated vehicles for permanent residents. I contacted the above mentioned Salvador Sanchez Ariaz in Lazaro Cardenas. He said that the moment I changed my status from FM3 to ANYTHING else, my car became illegal. He told me that he doesn’t do anything about cars and permits, etc. I have to contact an agent. Looking into that. I also contacted the also mentioned above Lic Karen Villaseñor. She told me my car IS legal. She told me to contact Isabel Ortiz at the aduana here in Zihua ) 554-3262. She confirmed that my car is legal in spite of changing my status from FM3 to permanent resident. She says to go ahead and nationalize it if I want- have anyone call her to confirm the legality of my car.
         So…on it goes. Will continue to check it all out.
       • yucalandia says:

         April 2, 2013 at 9:11 pm

         Well Done !

         Good update,
         steve
175. Marilyn Britton says:

     March 26, 2013 at 11:02 am

     In response to Linda Leonard’s post on TIP extension for vehicles:

     This was indeed good news. I immediaditely called Sr. Arias and spoke to him, he was certain that this was a new ruling that now applied to all of Mexico. (I discovered he is in Michoacan, I’m in Yucatan). He said that this new ruling would allow persons with the new tarjeta de residencia temporal OR permanente to renew the TIP at any port of entry.
     So, I called Aduana at Progreso and their position remains the same: our vehicle is illegal and we have to take it out of the country. When I told her of my conversation with Sr. Arias, she said that they have had no notification of a change in the interpretation of the law, and there are no TIP’s for the new cards.
     Anyone have anything else on this? I remain cautiiously optimistic!
     Marilyn B

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 27, 2013 at 7:26 am

       Hi Marilyn,
       The last report we have gotten from Aduana de Progreso is that on March 22 Aduana replied to a Residente Temporal gringo attempting to renew their TIP:
       …..“No” “Not now” “Work is underway to correct the situation…..”” …
       steve

       Reply
       • Marilyn Britton says:

         March 27, 2013 at 2:24 pm

         Thanks Steve, as always. Any word on the Res. Permanente? This is such a mess. Was picked up by a moto-policia in Merida today. Wanted to impound vehicle. Gave him 200 mordida. Went to SAT to try to get a “retorno seguro de vehiculo” but couldn’t b/c I didn’t have the original title papers. I’m at my wits end. Leaving on Tues next week for Matamoros. Hope I have enough 200 pesos bills to get there!!! Thanks for all you work. Marilyn
       • yucalandia says:

         March 27, 2013 at 4:43 pm

         Hi Marilyn,
         Bummer….

         Did you show him a copy of the Ley Aduanera Articulo 106, Fracc IV and your current INM residency card? (it is in our main article on importing and driving cars in Mexico: IMPORTANT RULES FOR OPERATING FOREIGN PLATED CARS IN MEXICO: Article 106 and Manual de Operación para la Importación Temporal de Vehículos y Motocicletas: Article 17 Sec. 17 17.1 & 17.4

         If not, carry copies of Articulo 106, in Spanish, with you to show to police if they stop you again.
         Most police are not educated in the Ley Aduanera (Customs Law), so when you have them read a copy of the applicable section of the law, they generally back-off.

         Unfortunately, there is a mess right now, because the Customs Law really does not address the new Residente Permanente INM category – leaving those people temporarily in legal limbo.
         steve
176. Julie Garfield says:

     March 27, 2013 at 11:43 am

     Thanks so much for your fine summary. Of concern to me is my understanding that a residente permanente status restricts the amount of time one can travel outside of Mexico. I do not see anything about travel restrictions in your list of pros and cons between temporale and permanente status. As a property owner in Mexico engaged in the business of renting that property, I do not think the visitante status will work for me. As a person who spends only between 6-8 weeks a couple of times per year in Mexico, the travel restrictions I understand to exist for the permanente status would be exceeded in my case. Accordingly, is it your impression that the best bet for me is to continue to renew my temporale status every year in Mexico for the allowed 4 years, then starting anew every 5th year at the Mexican Consulate in the US? That will be a hassle, but I don’t see any alternative from what I presently understand the new law to be. Thanks for your insights. Julie

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 27, 2013 at 4:38 pm

       Hi Julie,
       “…Of concern to me is my understanding that a residente permanente status restricts the amount of time one can travel outside of Mexico. …”

       Don’t worry about this.
       This is a rumor, started by several very-mistaken Mexican lawyers (and their inaccurate websites) and several very-mistaken “facilitators” – a rumor that has been passed from gringo-to-gringo like a bad head cold.

       Ignore it….
       … unless you want to apply for Mexican citizenship soon.

       SRE (the Mexican Gob. equivalent to the US State Dept) does check how long an applicant has been outside of Mexico, when deciding whether to approve a foreigner for naturalized citizenship. Citizenship applicants must not be outside of Mexico for more than 6 months of the previous 24 months.

       So, some Mexican lawyers and their websites mistakenly mix up SRE citizenship requirements with INM (SEGOB) requirements. This is like confusing the US State Department rules with Homeland Security (Immigration and Naturalization): Different issues, different departments, different rules…
       steve

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 27, 2013 at 4:38 pm

       Hi Julie,
       “…Of concern to me is my understanding that a residente permanente status restricts the amount of time one can travel outside of Mexico. …”

       Don’t worry about this.
       This is a rumor, started by several very-mistaken Mexican lawyers (and their inaccurate websites) and several very-mistaken “facilitators” – a rumor that has been passed from gringo-to-gringo like a bad head cold.

       Ignore it….
       … unless you want to apply for Mexican citizenship soon.

       SRE (the Mexican Gob. equivalent to the US State Dept) does check how long a citizenship applicant has been outside of Mexico, when deciding whether to approve a foreigner for naturalized citizenship. Citizenship applicants must not be outside of Mexico for more than 180 days of the previous 24 months.

       So, some Mexican lawyers and their websites mistakenly mix up SRE citizenship requirements with INM (SEGOB) requirements. This is like confusing the US State Department rules with Homeland Security (Immigration and Naturalization): Different issues, different departments, different rules…
       steve

       Reply
177. Linda Leonard says:

     March 27, 2013 at 4:35 pm

     There is no travel restriction involved regarding residente permanente. That used to be in place for anyone with an FM2. No restrictions any more.

     Reply
178. Marilyn Britton says:

     March 27, 2013 at 5:37 pm

     WOW!! Thanks, Steve. Very impressive!!! Surely they would not mess with us with these papers. Nice to know.

     Will be watching your blog to see updates. Very interested to see what they do at border in Matamoros. Wish us luck!!! Hope to not have to revoke Res Perm to get Res Temp. in US but if i have to, will do. Thanks. m

     Reply
179. Julie Garfield says:

     March 27, 2013 at 6:31 pm

     Thanks for your reply. Julie

     Reply
180. Sarah says:

     April 3, 2013 at 3:54 pm

     Re Linda Leonard’s post April 2: I also spoke to Lic. Karen Villasenor last week and she told me that my car will be illegal as soon as my permanente status takes effect and that I should not drive it until I take it back over the border with a “Safe Return” or legalize it (a “J’ car, so seemeingly not possible). Why are we getting completely contrary info from the same person?

     Reply
181. Linda Leonard says:

     April 3, 2013 at 3:56 pm

     Well good grief. Isn’t that an excellent question? I have always known that it depends who you talk to for the information you will receive. Now it seems it might depend on which day you talk to the same person.
     How can you take it over the border without driving it? What is a “safe return”.

     Reply
182. Linda Leonard says:

     April 3, 2013 at 4:58 pm

     On starting to research the nationalization (car) process, I am learning that you need an agent to handle this for you- arranged before you take the car to the border. I am also learning that FINDING an honest agent is going to be a real challenge. It seems there is a lot of fraud out there. Really?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 3, 2013 at 6:26 pm

       Nogales has a report of at least one honest customs broker. Here’s a Mexconnect report of a successful 2006 vehicle import at very modest cost ($1,100) including a trailer:
       “The broker we used (Nogales) was Oscar Angulo. His cel number is 045 631 120 1015. His email is ancomercial@hotmail.com

       His fee was only $60 US, but the total came to $1,100 US because of the duty and taxes. Working in pesos is okay because he covers all of the US dollars. As he told us, “money converts.” We have a 2006 Nissan Xterra and a 5 x 8 foot enclosed trailer. Our current cards are No-Inmigrante. And yes, Residente Temporal would have worked just fine. The only real condition on nationalization is that the vehicle must be 2007 or older and have been assembled in a NAFTA country. Our VIN starts with a 5, so we were okay.”

       …
       “The easiest and least stressful approach is to arrange for your broker before you leave home. If he’s like Oscar, he will ask you to scan and email him a photo of the VIN in the window, both sides of your title, your visa cards and the paper receipt for your TIP. With that, he will have all of the paperwork ready when you arrive and the whole process is a cakewalk. He also asked for our drivers’ licenses, but he stressed that it was only for picture ID. The lady at one of the counters said a passport was also okay. There have been reports that some brokers are requiring Mexican licenses, but it’s not really a requirement, at least at Nogales. I would have something with your name and Mexican address on it just in case, like a utility bill, if you don’t have a Mexican license.

       Since you are doing this long distance, before committing to a vehicle I would suggest checking the Aduana site that allows you to input the VIN. Have the seller photograph and send you the VIN from the window or inside the driver’s door and then double check it when you first see the vehicle. Sorry, I don’t have the URL handy but I’ve seen it pop up on MexConnect.

       As for what the brokers charge, they are supposedly limited to a maximum amount. But who knows. If somebody looks like they’re trying to rip me off I am loath to do business with them. Oscar was first class all the way and he’s getting quite a lot of business from this part of Mexico. If you have a Residente Permanente card he can arrange for you to bring in more than one vehicle per year via his broker’s license.”

       http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=188681;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;page=last;#last
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • Linda Leonard says:

         April 3, 2013 at 6:33 pm

         Thanks for the info Steve. I have already found and emailed Oscar. You are missing a couple of basic facts- the vehicle and I live in Zihua. If I have to drive to the Mexico-US border, I will have to register it in Canada again 1st. It has been here since 2009, so my Canadian plates have expired. Where I bought it, and originally registered it before bringing it to Mexico, was in Manitoba, Canada. In that province, your government vehicle insurance is your registration. Obviously I haven’t kept it insured in Canada. I never intended for this vehicle to ever leave Mexico. So..the process is not going to be simple no matter what. I appreciate all the info about Oscar- he seems to be a really good prospect for finding a way through this maze with me. I hope he will answer my email.
     • MareNerMan@aol.com says:

       April 3, 2013 at 7:53 pm

       I have researched this. To “naturalize” a foreign plated vehicle, you must obtain an EXPORT PERMIT from the country of origin. That means in most cases the car has to be driven back to the U.S. or Canada and returned into Mexico with an EXPORT PERMIT to be presented to Mexican authorities. In the U.S. , that is a 4 day process at one of the few Border Patrol stations that does exporting. You have to leave the car with them for 3-4 days while they check it all out. Then, you HOPE the Mexican authorities accept the Export Permit. It’s NOT guaranteed!

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         April 3, 2013 at 9:18 pm

         Hi Mare,
         None of the customs brokers we have talked with have mentioned this requirement. None of the 15 or so gringos we have talked with about their successful imports mentions an “export permit”. The most recent customs broker with whom we spent 1 hour discussing the current requirements for permanently importing cars said he and his firm have imported over 800 vehicles for gringos, and he never had to get this “export permit” you describe. We have personally permanently imported 3 vehicles from the USA, and never ran into this.

         How many vehicles have you permanently imported? Did a reputable customs broker tell this “export permit” was required? What border crossing is requiring it? Can you provide some reference for this?
         Thanks!
         steve

         post script: If you want to read the current requirements described by experienced customs brokers, read our article on this, focusing on the Option 7: Take your car to the US-Mexico border and Permanently Import It. (instructions for driving in with cars – vs. shipping into a sea port)

         … and read our main article on
         Importing & Driving a Car in Mexico
183. lascosas says:

     April 3, 2013 at 5:59 pm

     I thought I would provide my experience applying for permanente at the San Francisco consulate today.

     This particular consulate has very little helpful information on their web site, no number for answering questions, and no appointments given. The web site says the consulate is open from 7:30-1:30, Monday through Friday, but many services, including visas, are located on the second floor, which doesn’t open until 8:30. At 8:30 everyone waiting for the second floor is given a number and sits in a waiting room until your number is called. There are several numbering systems based upon the type of service you are waiting for. Visas are the 500 series. We were the first numbers for visas, and were called at 9:00.

     While my partner and I obviously were together, they still insisted that we each have a separate number, and they took us one at a time. I filled out the application while the official, a very nice young woman, reviewed the financials. She also handed me a piece of paper and asked me to explain, in English, why I wanted a permanente visa. I provided a one sentence explanation (I wanted to reside in Mexico). She then took my photo and fingerprint of each index finger. The whole process with her took maybe 20 minutes. When completed she asked me to wait in the waiting room for someone else to interview me. Twenty minutes later my partner reappeared, having been told the same thing. Another 15 minutes passed and the woman who took our documents came out to explain that the person who would interview us was very busy and didn’t have time to see us. But she had shown him our files, and he said an interview wasn’t necessary. We were told that our applications had been approved. We needed to pay $36 (credit card or personal check, no cash) each and return that same day between 3:00 and 3:30 to pick up the visas. We left at 10:30.

     Returned at 3:00 and, as instructed, knocked on the locked door and explained to the guard why we were there. Sat in a downstairs waiting room (we were the only people waiting) until 3:45. We then went up to the office of the woman we’d met with in the morning, handed her our receipts for the $36 and signed a receipt for our passport and visa. The visa says residente permanente and is good for 6 months. She handed us a paper explaining what we need to bring to our local INM office when we arrive in Mexico: the signed, completed online form, 3,815 pesos and 3 baby size photos.

     A few notes on the process:
     -Except for the page of explanations we received with the visa, the entire process was in English, including the form, letter and conversations with everyone we encountered. I would have been just as happy to communicate in Spanish, but the assumption at least at this consulate was that visa applicants speak English, not Spanish.
     -We brought the following items to the consulate:
     1. For me, six months of my pension stubs, and for my partner twelve months of statements from her retirement account.You need an original and one copy. We do not receive either document through the mail, we need to go online and print out the statements and stubs. So the copy was simply a second print-out. I feared that would be a problem. It wasn’t. They kept the copy and returned the ‘original’ to us. My partner has a different name on her retirement account than on her passport. We provided a copy of her drivers license (a photo id with the same name as the retirment account), and her Mexican will which references both names. The official certainly wasn’t surprised that a woman would have different names after a long life, but she did carefully underline the name in the various documents, and she kept them all in her file.
     2. Original and copy of passport.
     3. One photo 3.9 cm x 3.1 cm. We had a hard time finding a place that would provide this size. There is a photo and copy center next door to the consulate that could do it, but the line was very, very long waiting to enter the premises. We used ePassportPhoto.com. Take a digital photo, email it to them with instructions and it was ready to pick up at our local Wallgreens three days later. Cost about $10 each.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 3, 2013 at 7:14 pm

       Well Done !

       Plus, you gave us all a dandy report.
       THANKS!
       steve

       Reply
184. Gary says:

     April 4, 2013 at 9:46 am

     My guess would be that the “Export Permit” referred to in a previous post is actually a “Retorno Seguro” for a car that has become illegal. Just a guess.

     Reply
185. Sarah says:

     April 7, 2013 at 4:17 pm

     The info provided above re not letting your current immigration document expire seems incorrect, as the Nuevo Vallarta office, at least, INSISTS that if we have had 4 years on our current No Inmigrates we have to go to Permanente and that we can’t apply for this until the day AFTER our current status expires. Comments?

     Reply
186. Dermot Kenny says:

     April 7, 2013 at 5:20 pm

     That is correct, at least here in Merida. My 4 year FM2 expires on April 14, 2013. I applied for a Permente status 3 weeks before the expiry date . I was told to wait until the day after and reapply on April 15th when I would be granted a permente card.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 8, 2013 at 6:38 am

       Wow. So the logic is to follow the old Inmigrado rule. That pretty clearly causes the Aduana Temporary Import Permit for vehicles to expire. Good updates! steve

       Reply
187. Solomon Freimuth says:

     April 8, 2013 at 2:42 pm

     Good afternoon Steve,

     I just published all the Templates that I am using in my office for immigration on MyMexicanLawyer.com. I thought your DYI readers might find the examples useful as a guide for writing their own immigration letters and doing their own renewals/changes of condition.

     The URL is:
     http://www.mymexicanlawyer.com/immigration-questions/my-templates-for-the-new-immigration-tramites/

     Saludos!
     Solomon

     Reply
188. The Boom says:

     April 11, 2013 at 8:51 am

     do you know of some instructions for employers (preferably in Spanish) on getting authorization for hiring a foreign worker. amazingly enough the university I’m going to work with doesn’t seem to know how to do it and I want to give them the information otherwise, given my experience so far, it could take quite a while for them to figure it out.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 12, 2013 at 11:14 am

       We have not been down this road, and I couldn’t find anything published on it.
       sorry,
       steve

       Reply
189. Jason says:

     April 12, 2013 at 11:29 am

     Hi there,

     Great website you have there. Lot’s of good stuff.
     I have a question and was hoping you could give me a short reply. I have to renew (1st renew) my FM3. It expires on June 15th. I understand that the earliest date to go to renew is 1 month before it expires and the latest is 1 day before it expires. Is that correct. I am a bit confused because yesterday someone told me the LATEST to go to renew is 1 month before exiration not the earliest, as I thought?
     Would be awesome if you could give me a short reply.
     Thank you so much.

     Jason

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 12, 2013 at 2:05 pm

       Hi Jason,
       Normally, a renewal applicant can go in on the expiration date of their FM3/No Inmigrante permit. Since your June 15, 2013 expiration date falls on a Saturday, you must go in and apply no later than the last business day before June 15 => you may go in to apply to extend your FM3/No Inmigrante as a Residente Temporal, between May 15 and June 14, 2013.

       Be sure to do the online application to start your process, taking in the 2 pages you printed at the end of the on-line application, with you when you go into INM. Our Merida INM office is expecting applicants to come in before 7:00 AM, to be in a position in line to be served that day.

       What INM office will you use?
       steve.

       Reply
       • markemmer says:

         April 12, 2013 at 2:57 pm

         Small point Steve: Criterio de Resolución II of Article 34 of the Lineamientos says:
         Los documentos migratorios a que hace referencia el numeral 1 del apartado de requisitos de la presente ficha de trámite, deben tener una vigencia de 1 hasta treinta días naturales para que proceda el trámite.
         También procederá el trámite del documento migratorio que haya vencido en día inhábil y se presente al siguiente día hábil, y el de tarjetas que hayan vencido en el extranjero que tengan hasta sesenta días naturales de vencimiento.

         That is, renewal can be 1 to 30 days before expiration. Since one day before Jason’s Saturday, June 15, 2013 expiration is a Friday, the non-business day nature of June 15th is immaterial. If he had a June 16th expiration, I read the second paragraph to say that he could apply on the next business day, Monday June 17.
       • yucalandia says:

         April 14, 2013 at 9:40 pm

         Good correction.

         THANKS !
         steve
       • Jason says:

         April 12, 2013 at 6:21 pm

         Hi Steve,

         Great, thanks for your advice. I will be using the Playa del Carmen INM office.
         Is it obligatory to do the online application?

         Thanks a lot

         Jason
       • yucalandia says:

         April 13, 2013 at 7:58 am

         Yes.

         If you do not have internet access, our Merida office used to allow applicants to use a computer of theirs to enter your information. Do all offices offer this option? lo no se… Don’t worry, the online form is easy to complete – with basically the same options as last year. Since your personal data is already in their database, you can check the box that uses your personal info from last year: https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#INM%20Webpage%20for%20Visiting%20Mexico%20or%20Moving%20to%20Mexico
         All the best,
         steve
190. Linda Leonard says:

     April 13, 2013 at 8:05 am

     Here is Zihuatanejo we could do our renewal, which was really a move to permanent resident, up to a month before our FM3 expired. Also, our office just prints out the appropriate letter and we sign it. Very easy.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 13, 2013 at 9:10 am

       Nice…

       Reply
191. chadChad says:

     April 15, 2013 at 7:36 pm

     Hi Steve,
     I am sure you are tired of answering questions about immigration. However, the situation is fluid and we all get mixed reviews. That is why I want to ask you what currently is going on.

     I have no prior residency status. I am going to the consulate here in a two days. On the application, can I check ‘permanente‘? I am seeing that some say you must have temporal status before you can gain permanente. If this is true,as a newbie, how many years of temporal should I apply for on the visa? Or is this determined at the INM office no matter which box I check?

     Thanks so much!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 15, 2013 at 9:40 pm

       Hi Chad,
       If you can meet the requirements listed above for permanente, then you can apply for permanente.

       The Consulate employees do not tell you what to apply for, that is your choice. The Consulate people only determine if you qualify for the status you applied for. Do you meet the requirements listed above for permanente?

       I hope you can travel soon, since your travel has been delayed already for 3 months.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • Chad says:

         April 17, 2013 at 4:09 pm

         Well, Steve, it was a semi-smooth process. Although I showed deposits/additions of $3,000 each month, they didn’t want to give me ‘Permanent’ on my temporary visa to take to INM. The consulates are confused and my consulate is saying $3K for any sort of residency! LOL WAY OFF! So, it is my understanding, though, that since my temporary visa now states ‘TEMPORAL’, INM in Merida will NOT be able to change that to ‘Permanente’. Have you come across other expats in that situation? (I must admit, with my time being consumed I have not been diligent with my research.) I am thinking of hiring a lawyer to go to INM with me, not for language purposes, but rather to see if that can be changed. Any suggestions? (Also, I heard that people that used a popular company there did not even have to go to INM and they did all the grunt work. Is this true?)
       • yucalandia says:

         April 17, 2013 at 4:41 pm

         Hi Chad,
         What Consulate did you use?

         2 other Consulates tried to foist off this faulty position, but we supplied copies of applicable sections of the actual text of the law on these Requisitos de Articulo 44 de los Lineamientos, then the other Consulates gave up and started following the official rules.

         In this vein, it may be worth hiring an attorney who is well known and well respected in the INM office. We don’t know any.

         Re people to do your application: there is one group, called Y.E.S., and they charge $150 USD to stand in line for you for one time – 7:00 AM to 11:00 AM, which makes a pretty good hourly rate for them ($30 an hour for reading a book in line, plus checking a few things on-line at the INM website)…. I would consider though that they have been supplying advice that did not fit the law on Immigration issues for the past 2 years, similar to their errors in their written web-site advice on Mexican Labor law on what and how to pay your employees. When an agency refuses to improve for 2 years, it would not be my first choice.

         Hire a good immigration attorney instead, and see if he/she can make some appeal – possibly by asking for a formal hearing?
         This sort of special situation is beyond our knowledge, and is not described in the law or the Lineamientos.
         steve
192. Jason says:

     April 16, 2013 at 10:04 am

     Thanks Steve

     Reply

193. Pingback: The visa process for Mexico changed dramatically in 2013! | The Peripatetic Retiree

194. Gary says:

     April 17, 2013 at 4:28 pm

     RE: local company to do the grunt work. I think that the people to whom you refer are YES (Yucatan Expatriate Services). I have never used them. I do know three people who have used them in the past three months and they got their cards in about 4 weeks. They were only required to go to INM personally for one visit for the thumb print. YES did everything else. Cost was $160 US or equivalent in pesos.

     Reply
195. Chad says:

     April 17, 2013 at 5:22 pm

     Thanks, Steve! As always, your expertise, experiences and opinions are appreciated.

     Gary, I actually contacted YES about fees and they said I would have to go one time for an approximate 30 minute interview and show a utility bill in my name. I had also heard that only one trip was required for fingerprinting, but I do believe it is for those who are renewing FM2/FM3 visas. I’m one of the “lucky” ones to have to start at a Mexican consulate outside of Mexico. So, I may have to go. I do hate to waste money, but the thought of them standing in line for me is tempting. I don’t need their language skills. In fact, I think it would be in my favor to go and show INM that I speak Spanish and that may work more wonders of the possibility of changing the status to ‘permanente’ than anything. I will continue to investigate. If anybody reads this and has lawyer suggestions or YES experiences, please share!

     Reply
196. Gary says:

     April 17, 2013 at 5:42 pm

     Chad —

     Re: YES. The three people I know who used YES in the past three months were all people who were renewing. I am renewing in a few months and will use them for the first time, and the last time. The people at INM in Merida are neither friendly or accommodating.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 17, 2013 at 6:28 pm

       Hi Gary,
       It’s interesting that you will be using INM-Merida for the first time, yet you say bad things about them. … Odd choice.

       I’ve been in and out of the Merida-INM office roughly 50 times over the past 8 years, and I’ve found them friendly, helpful, and professional every time. They have consistently offered more liberal policies than almost every other INM office in Mexico on discretionary items. There is one INM employee handling applications who seems slower than the others, which means your app can take longer for approval if you get her… Still, even the slower agent has been 2X faster than the Quintana Roo INM offices…

       Why do we like Merida INM?
       They were possibly the first INM office to allow Residente Permanente applicants to use 1 year of an FM2 + 3 years of an old FM3 to qualify for Residente Permanente. I have watched them waive 6 months of penalties for one applicant who was 6 months late renewing his FM2. I have watched them patiently deal with cranky demanding gringos who couldn’t speak much Spanish, who didn’t know the rules, and were demanding things that were not allowed by the long-published rules.

       Different strokes for different folks,
       steve

       Reply
197. Gary says:

     April 17, 2013 at 7:43 pm

     Steve —
     I was accustomed to using the small office in Progreso when we lived in Chelem. The Progreso staff was super-friendly and helpful. Never a problem. I have only used the Merida office once (for a simple change of address) and they made the process very unpleasant, unfriendly. We’re talking a change of address, not a visa renewal. I loathe the idea of having to go back there again. Maybe they like you more than me. LOL You must have a ton of charisma!!! Or, I got the cranky, unpleasant person to whom you refer. She was arrogant and seemed annoyed that I was there to bother her with a change of address when she wanted to take her break. In all, the better part of three hours to put in a change of address, and I have to go back again to get the letter that says it was approved. That will be another three hours. Another reason to go Permanente as soon as possible.

     gary

     Reply
198. Chad says:

     April 17, 2013 at 8:27 pm

     Wow! I must chuckle because I have spoken to many folks about the Mérida office and ONE woman is constantly brought up in conversation as not being a pleasant person. I have heard mixed reports on the staff, butit appears that for me, the consulate office did most of the work and there should not be an issue, there, in Mérida, regardless of getting Ms. Cranky. I was told by YES that I would not even need to bring my bank statements. I would bring them, anyhow, as I have quickly learned documents of all sorts and copies of such documents are very handy. I have heard that Mérida’s office has been very generous compared to other offices. Each day can bring a new experience for anybody. Moods, personalities, full moons (LOL) and such could affect the outcomes.

     Reply
199. Chad says:

     April 17, 2013 at 8:33 pm

     I guess my next concern is…

     I have the canje tourist visa. What if INM does not go through with the temporary visa from the consulate and I am denied. What happens then? I have a few days to leave thecountry? once the Mex consulates issue these visas are there ever any denials?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 17, 2013 at 9:48 pm

       Hi Chad,
       Our understanding is that as long as you enter Mexico before the 180 day requirement, and then get into INM within the 30 day limit, they approve applicants who have been screened by the Mexican Consulates. We have seen no reports around the web to the contrary over the past 5 months.
       steve

       Reply
200. Chad says:

     April 17, 2013 at 8:40 pm

     One more thing…

     What about the point system? I feel like I could gain points. I have checked the Diario Oficial on occasion, but no news. I feel like i could earn points based on my degree, studying at a Mexican college, etc.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 17, 2013 at 9:50 pm

       Hi Chad,
       There is no formal points system in place yet. Some INM offices use informal points systems, where the applicants do not meet the Requisitos under any single item, but the offices consider partial fulfillment of several items to approve the applicant.
       steve

       Reply
201. Gary says:

     April 17, 2013 at 8:54 pm

     “Wow! I must chuckle because I have spoken to many folks about the Mérida office and ONE woman is constantly brought up in conversation as not being a pleasant person.”

     That’s the one I got!!!

     Anyway: I would agree with Steve that the people at INM in Merida have been far more “understanding” in working with the spirit of the law (as opposed to the letter of the law) in helping people to get their applications processed than has been the case in other states of Mexico. The unpleasant part about the INM office in Merida is that it is hugely understaffed, resulting in very long wait times. That’s why many people use YES or others: you give them a power of attorney and they do the waiting for you, which limits the time you have to actually spend at INM yourself. You provide full documents and pay them the money and they do the waiting in line.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 17, 2013 at 9:57 pm

       Hi Gary,
       Really good points. The Merida INM office has been processing about 40 – 45 new applicants every day. They also handle the questions for another 50 – 60 people with either questions or dropping-off documents or doing finger-printing etc. These folks are handled mainly by 2 employees at the information desk and the login desk, plus 4 (?) more inside in the first office for the face-to-face contacts => understaffed (this year).

       Imagine how much more smoothly things will go next year and the following year, when all of us Residente Permanentes never come back.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply

202. Pingback: Common Mexican Immigration Questions … as Answered by a Popular Mexican Lawyer | Surviving Yucatan

203. Chad says:

     April 24, 2013 at 9:20 pm

     Greetings Steve,

     I went with YES for the sole purpose of not wasting a day in line today to start the processing of the paperwork. As the cliché goes, ‘time is money’. And since the Indy consulate already branded me as temporary, I thought I would go with the herd of gringos and do what most do, use their services. They are quite polite and cordial. I cannot complain about my treatment.

     However, I was informed that since I am not jubilado/pensionado I CANNOT be granted ‘permanente’ status even though I have deposits well over the minimum required. I was told that it came from D.F. recently that you have to have four years of temporary status, even if the required deposits are there, as income, to get permanante status. Only those jubilados/pensionados can go straight to permanente with that amount of income. I was also told, though, that they probably won’t even look at my bank statements when I renew. ???? That makes no sense… Yes, I know it is our querido México. 🙂

     So, I was in a quandry. Do four years and pay the $7000+, but bypass a possible way to get permanente or go for the one year at the over-priced $3000+. I went with one year to see if things change OR to see if this is actually the rule. I can see both sides. My consulate was nervous giving me permanent status; therefore I received temporary on my visa, and I can see how a 36 yr. old could go through a lot of changes with income before reaching pension/Social Security status. If this is true, I will pay a bit more by going with a one year, followed by a three year, etc. I do believe that my age puts me in a minority group among the foreigners here.

     Does this seem accurate that since I am earning income from working (U.S. earnings, not S.S. or pension) I cannot receive permanent until four years are up? I love this place and plan on living and working here (U.S. wages, unless something comes along that destiny has in store for me here… which I hope for as I want to be out and working with the community) and wish to have dual citizenship.

     As always, mil gracias for your advice and insight, Steve.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 25, 2013 at 6:35 am

       Hi Chad,
       Yes, that does seem to be the way that more and more Consulates are shifting to.
       steve

       Reply
204. Iqbal Muktadir says:

     April 25, 2013 at 10:30 pm

     Iqbal Muhammad Al Muktadir says:

     February 25, 2013 at 5:26 pm

     I made the following question to you on 25th February, 2013 –
     ¨Hi, I am Engineer Iqbal Muktadir, I am in Mexico under 6 months multiple entries FMM tourist visa. My question is:- Can I become eligible to apply here US embassy for tourist or study or any types of visit visa? Is it possible to get USA visa & can travel & tour there for some days?
     Please let me know ASAP.
     Thank you for your Co-operation.
     Regards,
     Iqbal Muktadir¨

     Reply

     yucalandia says:

     February 25, 2013 at 5:31 pm

     Hello Iqbal,
     Yes, you can apply at any US Consulate or the US Embassy for a visa to visit the USA.
     steve

     Reply
     Now my question is: When I applied for USA visa to US consulate at Guadalajara, They asked about my FM3 or FM2 status, I told them according to new rule I cannot change my visa status from FMM to FM3 according to INM and even I showed them all of INM email & answers report where clearly mentioned about my circumstances, but consular officer directly refused my visa application only for the reason of not having my residence status here in Mexico.
     So, Now what is the solution? Please tell me. Before many times you and other INM people told me clearly that I can apply for US visa and I can go to USA for my professional special qualification. But what should I do? Can I reapply for US visa and take appointment in Mexico city Embassy? Do you think it would be positive?
     Please let me know ASAP.
     Kind Regards,
     Engineer Iqbal Muktadir
     Cell: 5514892688
     E-mail: muktadir_kuet@yahoo.com

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 26, 2013 at 1:35 pm

       Hello Ing. Muktadir,
       You wrote:
       “Now what is the solution? Please tell me. Before many times you and other INM people told me clearly that I can apply for US visa and I can go to USA for my professional special qualification. But what should I do? Can I reapply for US visa and take appointment in Mexico city Embassy? Do you think it would be positive?”

       As I wrote to you before, you “can” apply here in Mexico at the US Consulates or Embassy, but there is no assurance that any foreigner will be issued a visa to enter the USA. Since we do not know your country of citizenship, we do not know your political history, we do not know your criminal history, or your work history, etc, then we cannot say whether the US Embassy will issue you a visa.

       I think you need to ask the Embassy what approach is acceptable to them? They may require you to return to your home country, and apply from there. Each case has enough personal details and country-specific issues that I don’t think any of us can give you a definitive answer, except for the US State Dept. and Homeland Security – and they have been hesitant to tell foreign applicants what their specific criteria are for approving or rejecting visa applicants. (If they published the exact criteria, then unscrupulous or terrorist applicants could more-easily game the application systems to get around restrictions.)

       Did you ask them what to do to make a successful application?
       steve

       Reply
205. stevecinq says:

     April 27, 2013 at 1:22 am

     Iqbal, I don’t think your entry to the US has much to do with your current country of residence.

     The US provides a “non-visa” visa [insert appropriate cynical comment here] in the form of an ESTA (aka “Electronic System for Travel Authorization”) for some countries (such as my present-but-not-favoured country of citizenship, Australia). It’s valid for 90 days within a period of 2 years and is issued on-line for USD14 if you’re from an approved country. If not, I guess you need a full visa-visa, though the difference escapes me.

     I don’t think this forum has much to do with your US travel requirements, personally speaking; you could be coming from México, England or Iceland.

     Reply
206. Creagh Day says:

     April 30, 2013 at 8:11 am

     Hello Steve and other Yucalandistas, I am here in BCS and have had a great experience with Immigration in San Lucas which I would like to share. I am pensionista and applied for residente permanente with 2 years on an FM3 and 1 year on a FM2. I had the required $3k per month, which had to be a PENSION, not just a deposit. I had to write a letter explaining my pension and my SS which I will begin to receive next month and together they added up to the magic number. Meanwhile I talked to immigration about Aduana and how my husband and I have to drive from AZ through Sonora to Topolobampo to take the ferry across the Sea of Cortez to La Paz. Because of the ferry, we must have TIP for our truck. We don’t want to import the vehicle yet. So he recommended that my husband give up his FM2 when we pass through Nogales this time, and reapply for residente temporal in October when we return. That will guarantee us four more years of residente temporal (with the TIP) as opposed to the only one more that my husband would otherwise do. Make sense? Anyway, I am off to be fingerprinted after waiting only 2 weeks for the processing and hopefully will have my card in two weeks or more… perhaps more.

     Do you know how to give up your FM2 legally? I am sure it will involve $ and will involve a letter… do you have that letter and can you explain the process? Do I do that here in CSL or do I do it before crossing the border?

     Also in case my card does not arrive from DF in time, do you have a letter for requestig permission to leave and return? I have to be back in AZ May 20 but will be flying bak to BCS in mid-June when I can go get my card… the trick is leaving and entering legally.

     Thanks again for all your help. Creagh

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 30, 2013 at 8:41 am

       Hello Creagh,
       Here’s an example letter that should get you your permit to leave and re-enter – (along with your application for said permit at the INM website). Be sure to make the text of the letter double spaced if they

       Mérida, Yucatán a (ENTER DATE HERE)
       Asunto: Expedición de Documento Migratorio

       Delegado de Merida INM ( or enter NAME & ADDRESS OF YOUR INM OFFICIAL)
       Instituto Nacional de Migración Delegación Regional en Yucatán
       Av. Colón Núm 507 por Calle 8
       Mérida, Yucatán, México C.P. 97070

       Por medio de la presente, yo, NAME OF APPLICANT as SHOWN on PASSPORT, solicito para obtener un Permiso de salida y regreso. Mi NUT es (ENTER YOUR NUT FOR YOUR CURRENT INM APPLICATION) y mi NUE es (ENTER YOUR NUE FROM THE PREVIOUS INM CARD). Tengo que viajar fuera de México para ir a EE.UU.. Viajo para ir a ( ENTER YOUR REASON FOR TRAVEL – LIKE TO GO TO A FAMILY WEDDING: “una boda familiar”). Tengo la intención de salir de México el _______. (ENTER DEPARTURE DATE)

       Le agradezco por anticipado la atención prestada a la presente solicitud, esperando contar con el otorgamiento del obtener un Permiso de salida y regreso lo ántes posible.

       Bajo protesta de decir verdad.

       Atentamente,

       APPLICANT SIGNATURE – sign here

       Type/enter APPLICANT NAME

       APPLICANT’S ADDRESS

       Calle (ENTER ADDRESS) Col. (ENTER NEIGHBORHOOD)

       Mérida, Yucatán, México C.P. ______________

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 30, 2013 at 8:48 am

       Hi Creagh,
       You can simply turn in your FM2 at the INM office where you drive out of Mexico. If you want a letter, here is an example:

       Mérida, Yucatán a (ENTER DATE HERE)
       Asunto: Rendición mi permiso Inmigración (ENTER Inmigrante or No Inmigrante or ___)

       Por medio de la presente, yo, NAME OF APPLICANT as SHOWN on PASSPORT, solicito a rendir mi permiso de Inmigración (ENTER Inmigrante or No Inmigrante or ___ ). Mi NUE es (ENTER YOUR NUE FROM YOUR INM CARD). Le agradezco por anticipado la atención prestada a la presente solicitud, esperando contar con el otorgamiento del rendir mi permiso de Inmigración lo ántes posible.

       Bajo protesta de decir verdad.

       Atentamente,

       APPLICANT SIGNATURE – sign here

       Type/enter APPLICANT NAME

       APPLICANT’S ADDRESS

       Calle (ENTER ADDRESS) Col. (ENTER NEIGHBORHOOD)

       Mérida, Yucatán, México C.P. ______________

       Reply
207. Creagh Day says:

     April 30, 2013 at 3:01 pm

     Thank you Steve.

     Reply
208. Mo says:

     May 3, 2013 at 8:28 am

     Hi Steve, been folowing your site for a while and finally get to write and ask something myself. Tuesdays experience in the Cancun Imigration office. Went there to renew my FM3 rentista for the first time. All went smoothly and the whole thing took no more than 1.5 hours. I brought all the forms and several bank stements from 2 banks I use. I was not sure about which or how many of the statements I should give them so I just asked the Signora who handled my application. At the end she took only 5 months statements from 1 bank which have between 1200 and 4250 US$ monthly deposits, total of around 13100 US$ for the whole 5 months in deposits. There was no need for the other banks statements. She told me it was fine like this and I was on my way. Was told it’ll take something like 1 month fot the whole process. Now I found out something that I was not aware of. The new imigration law 1900$ monthly? That was less before, wasn’t it? I have 2 months with 1200$, 1 month with 2200$ and 2 months with 4250$. So 2 months with less than 1900, but a 5 months average of over the 1900. If the second banks stetements would be included those 2 months with less than 1900 would have been over 1900, as well, but I was told it’ll be ok with just teh mentined statements.
     Now I have been thinking this through and came to the conclusion if the signora who handled my case made a mistake with my stetements/amounts could I get rejected? Or just in case, if this turns out to be a problem will I still be able to give them my other statements? Or nothing anymore I could do about? Or am I doing to much thinking here? Reason I ask is that since been in Mexico, many times I was told something and it turned out to be something different. However my documents were reviewed by the INM Lady and accepted. So thinks should be just fine, shouldn’t they?
     Was hoping for your opinion on this Steve.

     Thank you

     Mo

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 3, 2013 at 10:07 am

       Hi Mo,
       “…my documents were reviewed by the INM Lady and accepted. So thinks should be just fine,…”

       I think you said it all.

       Under the letter of the law, the proof of personal fiscal solvency requirement is for NEW applicants.

       For renewing applicants, like you, the INM agent has the right to approve you with no financial statements, but they also have the right to ask for 6 months of statements – all up to their discretion. You are correct that the old FM3 requirements were about $1,200 USD and the new deposit requirements are about $2,000 USD a month (at the current exchange rate).

       You should be fine,
       steve

       Reply
       • Mo says:

         May 3, 2013 at 10:37 am

         Hello Steve, thank you your fast answer. Much appreaciated!
         Do you know, just in case something comes up regarding the requirements, if then I could still hand in my second banks statements, to eliminate any doubts about the situation?

         Thank you

         Mo
       • yucalandia says:

         May 3, 2013 at 11:49 am

         Hi Mo,
         Yes, if needed, INM does sometimes call some people back in for a second visit, where they ask questions, ask for more information, or ask for more documentation. This visit is another discretionary item, so most foreigners do not have to do this. Most go right to the fingerprinting, pay the Residency Permit fee, answer the battery of security/statistical questions, and sign the form for your official card.
         steve
209. Mo says:

     May 3, 2013 at 12:48 pm

     Hello Steve, Great information, thank you. I have already payed the fee on Tuesday. 4680 Pesos for 2 years. So bascically what you are saying is once they have accepted the documentation and fee and given you the paper with the “pieza” number to check your satus in the Internet it means that they have more or less accepted the renewl and the applicant just have to wait till they call you in for fingerprinting and signing or in the worst case call you in for more documentation.
     Does that sound about right????

     Thank you
     Mo

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 3, 2013 at 5:29 pm

       Hi Mo,
       Correct,
       steve

       Reply
210. Mo says:

     May 3, 2013 at 5:47 pm

     Awesome, Steve. Thanks. Was already thinking about going down there again on Monday and ask them to take my other statements, too!!!!
     Really appreaciate you helping me out with my (silly) questions.

     Have a great weekend

     Mo

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 3, 2013 at 6:03 pm

       Hey Mo,
       You’re welcome.
       Igualmente: Have a great weekend, too,
       steve

       Reply
211. John Schuler says:

     May 6, 2013 at 9:40 pm

     Dear Steve,

     Can you answer a question for me?

     I am a retired US citizen currently in Thailand on a Retirement Visa. I have no legal residence in the United States any longer. On May 30 I will be coming to Mexico and will obtain a Tourist Card at the airport. If I like Mexico I plan to try to stay. I will be alone and meet the monthly financial requirement easily. Initially I will be doing a 3 month Spanish Language Immersion Program and do not intend to work.

     My question is can I apply for some type of long term residence while in Mexico or do I have to travel back to California and apply from there? Also what type of visa or card would be most appropriate? Is this something I may want to hire an immigration attorney to handle?
     Regards, John

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 6, 2013 at 10:54 pm

       Hi John,
       Actually, I think your most economical option is to apply at a Mexican Consulate in Thailand.

       Because you have a valid residency visa for Thailand, Mexico’s 2011 INM law allows you to apply for either Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente (if you meet the personal fiscal solvency requirements listed above) – by applying in Thailand. We know of a very nice US fellow and his Korean wife who have recently done this in Thailand. He handled things just fine by himself.

       The Spanish/English version of their website: http://www.sre.gob.mx/tailandia/

       Since the Mexican Embassy/Consulate just did this for one US gringo we know, they should know how to do it for you too.

       This fellow’s screen name on Mexconnect.com forums is ” TedZar ” . I have exchanged a number of PMs with him, and found him knowledgeable, intelligent, and very pleasant.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
212. John Schuler says:

     May 6, 2013 at 11:24 pm

     Dear Steve,

     Thank you for the information.

     I am in Northern Thailand and the Mexican Consulate is in Bangkok, some 500 miles away.

     Could I ask one follow up? Then it would not be possible to come to Mexico, get a Tourist Card, then later apply for something (anything) longer term without leaving Mexico? If it’s not possible, then I will study Spanish, then perhaps find another country, such as Uruguay, where I can apply while in country, or return to Thailand.

     Thanks again, John

     Reply
213. ELLIE EGAN says:

     May 10, 2013 at 5:11 pm

     I HAVE A HOUSE IN AJIJIC AND TRIED TO START MY VISA APPLICATION AT THE MEXICAN CONSULATE IN ORLANDO. FOR OVER A MONTH I TRFIED TO TALK TO A PERSON ON THE PHONE, SENT E-MAILS ASKING FOR AN APPOINTMENT. I CAN NOT GET ANYONE TO REPLY. I EVEN TRIED CONSULATES IN OTHER CITIES, BUT THE SAME THING HAPPENS THERE TOO, NO RESPONSE. ANY ADVICE, AS I WANTED TO LEAVE NEXT MONTH

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 10, 2013 at 5:35 pm

       Some Florida residents have said that they have had to stop calling, and just go to the Consulate in Orlando, because this consulate has not replied to calls or emails.
       steve

       Reply
       • lascosas says:

         May 11, 2013 at 3:25 pm

         Same thing in San Francisco. For that office, you must show up in person.
214. Dave says:

     May 14, 2013 at 8:55 am

     Here’s a general update on the procedure we went through to get our renewals on our R/T’s this year. WE have gone to Tuxpan in the past and because we had a friend in the immigration office, we showed up at 9:00 am, presented our solicitud, along with the form completed on-line and downloaded with the NIP and also the other required documentation … were fingerprinted and our new cards were made right there and were picked them up at 3:00 pm A nice easy one day outing and our ( photocopied ) bank statements were hardly even glanced at.
     This time under the NEW rules it was a whole different ball game ( plus the fact that our friend had retired and we had to deal with his sucsessor … who we also Knew ) ….. We presented all the paperwork and although there was no problem with the photocopied bank statements, they did scrutinize them quite thoroughly and then told us we had to come back in 7 days to be fingerprinted. ( why can’t we just do it today ? …. no logical answer ). Back next week and got fingerprinted and then told everything had to be sent to Mexico City to be processed and the new cards printed . Told to come back again in 10 days.
     Now a little diversion to another subject. …. We had a copy made of the receipt showing we had paid the fee for renewal and off we went to Aduana/Banjercito in Tuxpan to try and get a renewal on our TIP for the car. Last year they pleaded total ignorance and I had to go to Mexico City. However, this year I made a phone call in advance to the Aduana abogado Sra. Villasenora in Mexico who then apparently made a phone call to the Tuxpan office and straightened then out because now a very nice young man named ” Nue ” seemed quite familiar with the process and took our solicitud and the required pr-completed form and said come back in 10 days …. it has to go to Mexico City to get approved ….. ” coincidence or what ?? ”
     Sure enough 10 days later the new R/T cards were ready and as luck would have it, our retired friend happened to visiting the office and he told us that he had never seen such a bunch of b.s. with all the new rules and that everyone was just trying to be super efficient but hopefully in the future things might get more relaxed again. From there, off to Aduana, who photocopied our new R/T cards and gave us the renewal on the TIP …. their service is totally free.
     CAVEAT: our car was made in Japan and has a J prefix in the VIN so even if we wanted to try and import it and pay the duty, ( you HAVE to import your car when you switch from R/T to R/P, which we would have to do next year ) you are NOT allowed to import a non-NAFTA vehicle.
     Fortunately for us we only spend 6 months of the year here so we will just surrender our R/T cards and go back to 6 months tourists visas and then you can bring in the non-NAFTA vehicle. For those of you in a similar situation ( with non-NAFTA cars ) and who live here year round, this is going to present a big problem unless they change the rules
     Our retired friend agreed that this is one of those instances where they are cutting off their nose to spite their face and just not being logical. In our case they will lose $7600 pesos in R/P fees plus the 15% import tax on the vehicle plus the licensing fees etc …. maybe $10,000 pesos plus, in exchange for the cost of only 2 tourist visas at 800 pesos per year for the two of us. That gives us at least 12 years before our costs come to $10,000 pesos.
     Our friend agreed that maybe someone will realize this loss of revenue and in the future they may change the rules but for now that’s the way it is.
     Anyway …. the whole process now appears to be taking at least 3 weeks ( in the Tuxpan office anyway )
     Wouldsappreciate any input from others who have done this lately.
     Dave

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 14, 2013 at 9:19 am

       Picked up my Permanent Residency card yesterday. Our Merida office only gives out the cards between 12:00 and 1:00. Applied March 21. Got fingerprinted and turned in fotos and $$ on April 23. Received card May 13, 2013. No financial statements needed. 3 prior yrs on FM3 + 2 yrs on FM2. All easy and routine. No drama, no hassles.

       Reply
215. Marilyn Britton says:

     May 14, 2013 at 10:11 am

     Hi Dave. I received my RP this year—was told I would be able to keep car. Once it was over, they then told me that I couldn’t. Car is in Mx, I’m in US for 6 mos and trying to figure out what to do (it’s a 92 Honda made in Japan, so no nationalizing possible as you know). My question is, where do you have to turn in your RP to then apply for Tourist Visa? Have card with me in Ind–closest consulate is Chicago. Any help provided much appreciated. Marilyn

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 14, 2013 at 10:42 am

       Hi Marilyn,
       The Mexican Consulate in Chicago has been one of the most helpful in the USA. You definitely could surrender your RP card there in person. They may also accept a formal letter sent by mail, along with your card. I would contact them and ask if they have a procedure for doing it by mail: http://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/chicago/

       Since the Honda is still in Mexico, you might want to keep your Residente Permanente, until you deal with the now-illegal Honda. You still have to get a Retorno Seguro, take the Honda out of Mexico, and cancel the TIP at a border. In that scenario, when you take the Honda to a border to cancel the TIP, you could either sell the Honda in the USA or Belize and keep your Residente Permanente card … Or if you want to take the Honda back into Mexico, you could cancel your RP at that point, and then get a visitante permit and new TIP and then replace both of them at the border at least every 6 months. Does driving to the border every 6 months make sense???
       steve

       Reply
216. Dave says:

     May 14, 2013 at 11:36 am

     That was the impression I got from Migration and Aduana also.
     If you are currently in Mexico and plan on surrendering your R/T or R/P you can just turn it in at the border when you go back to the U.S. and you can also surrender you TIP to Banjercito and get your deposit back ( if you left one originally and notified Aduana/Banjercito each year of the change/.renewal of your immigration status as required by law …. if you didn’t do this you may lose your deposit ) Then when you come back into Mexico later just get a tourist visa and pay another deposit on your car. Of course you have to leave within 6 months and then do it all over again the next time.This way it doesn’t matter if your car is non-NAFTA.
     However if you are already in the U.S. then I would assume like Steve says that you have to surrender you Residency card at a Mexican consulate …. not sure whether they then issue a tourist visa or whether you still just apply at the border or airport upon re-entry
     When the car is still in Mexico, as Steve says. … it looks like a trip to the border is the only solution.
     Dave

     Reply
217. Gary says:

     May 14, 2013 at 1:14 pm

     Is there anyone in Merida who provides Immigrations services (walks visa applications through Immigration for you) other than Y.E.S.?

     Reply
218. justin says:

     May 18, 2013 at 12:52 pm

     I have just been issued the temporary resident visa with the words ” Residencia Temporal” under Type/Class/Category at my local Mexican Consulate. I was told to exchange the visa for the temporary resident card at an INM office within 30 days of arrival in Mexico. However, when I read the above messages, I notice that you said ” Even the Consulate has pre-approved the temporary residence, the INM office may require additional documents or requirements, or may even reject your application” How likely is that? I have quilted my job and have brought flight ticket to Mexico on August. Has anyone ever been rejected by INM even he/she has pre-approval by the local Consulate? The consulate approve my application based on my financial documents. Do I have to bring all those financial supporting documents again to the INM?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 19, 2013 at 5:23 am

       Hi Justin,
       It is unlikely that they will ask for additional documentation, but it is their right to ask for them.
       steve

       Reply
219. Louis says:

     May 20, 2013 at 8:03 pm

     Thank you for this really useful summary.
     I wonder if you can help me with the following question: I am in Mexico on a tourist visa. I would like to change to a “visitante sin permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas” in order to carry out some voluntary work here. I understand that this change can no longer be completed in Mexico. My plan is to apply for the visa through the embassy in Guatemala on a Guatemalan tourist visa (my home country is the UK, so returning is prohibitively expensive).

     My question is about the order of doing so. Should I first submit my documents and the application at a Mexican immigration office here in Mexico, await an appointment, and then leave Mexico to collect my new visa and re-enter from Guatemala? Or does the initial paperwork have to be submitted in Guatemala? Meaning that I should leave Mexico for Guatemala to submit the paperwork, return to Mexico on a second tourist visa to await the decision, and then go to Guatemala again to pick up the visa and finally re-enter Mexico with the new status?

     I’m a bit confused! Your advice on how to make the change without flying back to the UK would be most appreciated. Thank you so much in advance.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 21, 2013 at 9:57 am

       Hi Louis,
       Our understanding is that you can apply at Mexican Consulates in countries for which you have formal residency. Does the Mexican Consulate or Embassy in Guatemala accept Residente Temporal applications from foreigners in Guatemala with tourist visas? e.g. What government agency would give you proof of a clean criminal background check, since you do not live there…? Maybe the Consulate/Embassy in Guatemala does not ask for this in every case, or maybe they do. We have no experience with them, nor do we have any reports from others on how they do it there.

       If the Guatemala route does work for you, you go there first to start the process, to get the official visa allowing you to return to Mexico.
       Hope it works out for you,
       steve

       Reply
     • Mark Emmer says:

       May 21, 2013 at 12:19 pm

       Louis, are you sure you are stating correctly that you want to obtain a “visitante sin permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas”? If you have a tourist visa as you say, then that is exactly what you already have. The 180 day tourist visa is no longer called “tourist” except informally. It is a “visitante sin permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas” — that is, a 180 day visitor’s visa without permission to perform remunerated activities.

       If that is not correct, then perhaps it would be clearer if you described in English what you want to accomplish. Do you want to be able to stay for more than 180 days and not earn money? Do you want to be a tourist who can perform remunerated activities for less than 180 days? Do you want to be here for more than 180 days and earn money?

       If you clarify your goal, it will be easier to suggest possibilities. I believe what you suggested in your original post is what you already have!

       Mark

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         May 21, 2013 at 12:55 pm

         Hi Mark,
         … perfect …

         I limited my answer to the limited question he asked and approach he , and you are asking for enough addtl. information to explore the other options that may be available to him.
         steve
       • Louis says:

         May 21, 2013 at 5:46 pm

         Thanks all – I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the help after a few weeks of going in circles.

         My situation is that I currently have the card they gave me at the airport as my permission to stay here. It is titled “Forma Migratoria Multiple (FMM)” and gives me 180 days in the country. I am a British citizen, so I don’t need a visa to visit Mexico.

         I’m wanting to do some voluntary work here in Mexico. Maybe I’m mistaken in this (?) but I thought I had to apply for a different visa that allowed me to undertake voluntary work, or risk deportation and a fine for the organisation I’m working with. However, I’m taking this from some of the local social organisations who haven’t had volunteers since the change. I’ve had some positive replies regarding the visa process from embassies in the US (“yes, you can get it here as a British citizen”).

         I have some fluency in Spanish, so if you can point me in the direction of the relevant statutes or pages, I’m happy to do some reading. I read the Ley de Migracion and the Reglamiento that goes with it, but found nothing specific to my situation.

         Thanks again!
       • yucalandia says:

         May 21, 2013 at 7:09 pm

         Hi Louis,
         Since the local INM offices develop the specific policies and steps specific to each type of application (including many details not identified in the law), you should swing by your INM office in the morning, and ask them. For sure, you could go to the border and re-enter with a 6 months visitors permit that allows you to work, but I don’t know if any changes are possible while you are here.

         Are you working for some charity, aid, or religious org? Will you be working in a border zone?

         If so, I think you should look to the Lineamientos: http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5276967&fecha=08/11/2012

         Go to Articulo 11: Del otorgamiento de la condición de visitante por razones humanitarias.
         and
         Articulo 13: Item V and maybe Item VII if you are in the border zone(s)
         and
         Articulo 14: Item C & D
         and
         Articulo 15
         and
         16
         and
         Then focus on Articulo 25 for the most details.

         Since I don’t know enough of the details of your situation to give a more detailed answer, you really need to talk with either a knowlegeable INM agent or a good INM expert who knows the in’s and out’s of how the working visitante permits work.
         All the best,
         steve
220. Mark Emmer says:

     May 21, 2013 at 7:09 pm

     Louis, I’ll let Steve or others give you an opinion on whether “actividades remuneradas” includes non-paying volunteer work. I’ve tutored English at a foster home without giving it second thought. I know many others in Michoacán who are generous with their non-paying volunteer efforts and have never applied for permission to work. Maybe we’re all illegal?

     You want to go beyond the Ley de Migracíon and the Reglamientos to the relevant Lineamientos. There are two — procedures for consulates and those for in-country immigration offices. Fun reading. Here are the links, and both have an English translation button from Microsoft that isn’t half bad.

     http://www.dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5276966&fecha=08/11/2012
     http://www.dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5276967&fecha=08/11/2012

     You can always go to your immigration office and ask them directly. Or there’s a web page where you can submit a question:

     http://www.inm.gob.mx/consultas/index.php

     Good luck, and please report back what you learn.
     Mark

     Reply
     • Louis says:

       May 30, 2013 at 7:02 pm

       Thanks for your advice and help on my situation (volunteering in Mexico – which visa).

       I have decided that for volunteering in Mexico I am not going to seek a visa, my reasoning being as follows:
       Of the list of visas that are available to citizens of the UK like me for visiting Mexico, I found only two that fitted my situation: Residente Temporal and Visa de Turismo. The Residente Temporal visa was attractive because it gives up to four years, but the financial requirements are exacting (if like me you don’t have the financial support of an organisation, or you’re not married to someone Mexican etc etc). If supporting yourself, you need about 650,000 pesos to your name (!).

       The Visa de Turismo seems also to be called “Visa de visitante sin permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas” and is described as “Desea ingresar a México para residir temporalmente por no más de 6 meses sin realizar actividades remuneradas.” Being from the UK, I don’t even need a tourist visa to visit Mexico, just an FMM card… So I’m going to chance it on my FMM card, which I’m taking to be the equivalent of a Visa Turistica or “Visa de visitante sin permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas,” and I’m going go to Guatemala for the weekend if I want to stay for longer than 6 months. It doesn’t seem that, if you’re from the UK, you need a visa to volunteer (but please don’t just take my word for it).

       FOR THE INFORMATION OF PEOPLE WISHING TO CHANGE THEIR VISA STATUS, it does really seem that you cannot start the process from within Mexico anymore since November 2012, but you do NOT have to return to your home country either (as the INM office insisted to me): I have been told by a few consulates that you can start the process at any consulate of Mexico as long as you have leave to remain in the country in which it is based. I believe you book an appointment online (e.g., for the consulate in Guatemala City it’s http://embamex.sre.gob.mx/guatemala/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=573&Itemid=195), present all of the documents that are required (letter of invitation, proof of solvency, etc) and then wait 2-3 days for your visa.

       Reply
221. Nigel says:

     May 23, 2013 at 8:54 am

     Hello,

     Can someone clearly clarify that in order to qualify for residente temporal based on income (not retirement or pension) from an overseas source that you need to show SIX months of bank statements with at least the $2000 (approx) amount going in to the account each month? Someone said twelve months but others are saying six.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 23, 2013 at 9:08 am

       Hi Nigel,
       Did you read the section of the article on this above?

       The section is: https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Various%20Types%20of%20Proof%20of%20Financial%20Independence%20for%20Temporary%20Residency

       This stuff needs no confirmation, as we make direct simple translations from the official law, so the banter and rumor that flows around the web really does not matter.
       ~ 6 months of statements proving at least $25,904 pesos per month of regular deposits ~ is one way to qualify for Residente Temporal.

       Local Consulates and local INM offices sometimes make up their own policies, ~ at their legal discretion ~, but that does not change the official rules and official law.

       Hope this helps,
       steve

       Reply
222. Nigel says:

     May 23, 2013 at 9:14 am

     I did read it Steve, but a local specialist immigration attorney in Cancun, who does a lot of visa work locally for expats, told me it was six months for pension and twelve months if the income source was related to something else like income from a business going into your personal account. I am wondering what is the real world experience of anyone going down this route recently. Many thanks for your quick answer!

     Reply
223. 1947jbbarker says:

     May 23, 2013 at 9:23 am

     Ours was 6 months. Take everything you submitted to the embassy with you when entering Mexico. We had to produce it again in Queretaro INM..

     Reply
224. Nigel says:

     May 25, 2013 at 8:24 am

     Thanks 1947jbbarker! Steve – can you possibly send me a URL to the actual published legislation? That would be a great help as I can show the attorney!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 25, 2013 at 8:47 am

       Hi Nigel,
       Really, it is a bad sign if your attorney or Notario does not know the basics of the area of the law of what they are practicing, especially when they do not even know the basic principles, let alone the letter of that law. Mexican legal training, like Canadian and US legal training, is incomplete at best. Good lawyers go on to learn and specialize in specific areas. Some learn wills, others learn real estate, some learn immigration law, and some even learn tax law.

       Sharp people pick a specialized lawyer for the specialized task at hand.
       
       I really would find a new attorney/Notario.

       Attorneys/Notarios who do not know the law, will cost you so much extra unnecessary payments of taxes, that it is just not worth it. A good attorney more than pays their salary by using their detailed knowledge of the law to get you EVERY deduction.

       The purpose of Yucalandia is to educate people on the principles of the law, so as educated consumers we know the fundamentals of what we should expect. We are not giving legal advice. We put disclaimers on every legal-issue article precisely for this reason, because it takes a good attorney to ask all the right questions for your situation. Your attorney should have copies of the ISR at their fingertips – and they should know the appropriate sections of the DOF. This stuff is not readily available to the public for a reason. There are areas of the deductions that only qualified experienced attorneys know. An attorney cannot know what to do for you, by simply reading the DOF. Mexican tax laws are incredibly dense, and it takes an expert in tax law to handle these things well.

       We really encourage you to change attorneys.

       Find a qualified attorney/Notario.
       You should never have to supply DOF or other legal citations to your own abogado/Notario.

       You pay them to be the expert,
       to teach you, and
       to represent you well.

       If you are somehow forcibly irrevocably locked-into using this guy, then hire another reputable tax-expert attorney to review and correct every single bit of the under-educated attorney’s work.

       All the best,
       steve

       Reply
225. larry scott says:

     May 26, 2013 at 11:12 am

     Hello,
     i am wanting to live in Mexico and do not have income even close to what is necessary. i am wanting to help out some orphanages in the area and am looking to adopt or be a guardian to one of the kids. Is there any way that a permit is granted on these grounds? Right now i just have the basic 6 month “visa”. i have a person that is ready to rent a house to me using 6 month contracts. Are there consequences if i am not able to obtain a temporal resident status and yet live in the area for those 6 months and leave and return for another 6 months. i will not have any income for this time unless i complete my course where i could get a certificate to teach English. This is a very brief statement on what i am or want to do. If you are not able to answer could you please direct me to somebody that could help me in this situation.

     Thank you and the Lord bless you
     larry

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 26, 2013 at 7:11 pm

       Hi larry,
       Orphans definitely need help.
       You really do not want to overstay your visitors permit, if possible – because they can charge you some wicked-high fees for overstaying.

       You are fully welcome to get a series of Visitante visas – going to the border, surrendering the old one, and getting a new one. This can be done at any Mexican border crossing.

       Since I do not know all the specifics of your situation, and since the local INM offices develop the specific policies and steps specific to each type of application (including many details not identified in the law), you should swing by your INM office and ask them about your options. Are you looking to work for some charity, aid, or religious org? Are you thinking of working in a border zone?

       If so, I think you should look to the Lineamientos: http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5276967&fecha=08/11/2012

       Go to Articulo 11: Del otorgamiento de la condición de visitante por razones humanitarias.
       and
       Articulo 13: Item V and maybe Item VII if you are in the border zone(s)
       and
       Articulo 14: Item C & D
       and
       Articulo 15
       and
       16
       and
       Then focus on Articulo 25 for the most details.

       Since I don’t know enough of the details of your situation to give a more detailed answer, you really need to talk with either a knowlegeable INM agent or a good INM expert who knows the in’s and out’s of how the working visitante permits work.
       All the best,
       steve

       Reply
     • Jon Laska says:

       June 11, 2013 at 8:39 pm

       Do not worry. I have been living in Mexico for almost 2 years and keep leaving for 3 days and coming back. I am retired and do not have the income required for FM3 so I keep staying on visitor visa. If you get residency you have a chance to get some insurance as other Mexican people which is an advantage, you can also apply for help in other ways if need be. In your situation I would stay on visitante visa until you need to change it .

       Reply
       • larry scott says:

         June 23, 2013 at 12:40 am

         Thank you John,
         From this and other posts it seems that upon surrendering a visitor visa, one must leave the country for three days. Is that mandatory or can i surrender one and apply for another the same day? Having done this for two years, i would imagine you know the nuances. and Thank you in advance
226. larry scott says:

     May 27, 2013 at 1:29 am

     Hello Steve,
     Thank you for such a quick response. i surely was not expecting this, especially on this weekend. Thank you very much. First of all, are you saying that if i repeatedly purchase and give up each visitante visa i could live in Mexico without having to secure a temporal resident visa? This is in a border zone. The city is Imuris, which is about 45 miles south of Nogales. This work is personal but i think it is possible to “hook up” with a church that does some help with one of the orphanages and ask for what might be necessary to be considered a part of the “help”. One pastor has already been planning for my move down there so that i can help cross things at the border. My “son” wanted to be adopted but has changed his mind and would rather have me as his guardian and i will hope that he will change his mind. Right now, he is 14 and having a really hard time with life in general, as pretty much all 14 year old’s do have. My foremost thought is to be there for my son as much as possible and possibly look into starting a business helping out some the other people there, but that will be at least 6 months from now so that i can look into what type of niche would be available to succeed. Also, i am planning of having the TESOL and TEFL course complete also and have a certificate to teach English. All this may seem a bit uncertain, i am going at it as it is coming to me and playing it by ear (listening to God), so to speak. These are possibilities that i see right now. As i said, for me, the most important thing is to be there for my son. And along with that will definitely be a lot of volunteer work at the orphanages. (There are four in this town of 16,000). i am not familiar with INM offices. Is this located at the border? i did go to the Aduana office which is about 15 miles south of the border and they said i needed to go to the main office in Nogales per regulation and that they were unable to help with my questions.
     Hopefully, this will help you in giving another very helpful answer. i do appreciate this very much.

     Thank you again and the Lord bless you,
     larry

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 27, 2013 at 7:17 am

       Hi Larry,
       Did you read the Lineamiento sections we proposed? e.g. in Article 15 et al on:
       ~ visitante con permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas ?
       ~ visitante por razones humanitarias ? and
       ~ visitante con fines de adopción ?

       These items really are not in our wheelhouse, (we have no experience with them), and there are almost always subtleties to the details of how these work – and it is best to get advice from someone who knows exactly how they work. ( e.g. Article 17, item 5 may apply to your situation)

       If you are doing internet searches, I alluded to a TARJETA DE VISITANTE TRABAJADOR FRONTERIZO in the previous reply, but that applies to people coming into Chiapas, Tabasco, Campeche, and Q. Roo from Belize and Guatemala: => no help for your situation – but I mention it to wrap up the loose end that I mentioned about special permits working in border zones.

       Articles 25 & 26 continue with more information on your situation – both working and non-working.
       Note that Visitante for Adoption permits are only for 30 days.

       Best of luck,
       steve

       Reply
227. larry scott says:

     May 28, 2013 at 12:12 am

     Hi Steve,

     Yes, i read the articles and they seemed pretty vague. i hope that i did not put out too much info. i was hoping that with more info, it would help you to help me gleam off of your knowledge in those areas to see what would be best. You have helped me very much in all this and i thank you very much. Continue the good work.

     the Lord bless you
     larry

     Reply
228. Ty says:

     May 31, 2013 at 8:25 am

     Hello Steve,
     Great bolg by the way, and I have a quick question myself. Have been waiting for over 4 weeks now on my 1st renewl of my temporary residence permit? When I check the INM page with my code, everything is still the same as it was when I submitted my request over 4 weeks ago. Was kind of wondering if the long waiting period is normal or if there might be a problem with my request? My bud tells me once they accepted my documents it’s only a matter of waiting till I get my renewl approved, only a matter of time. Does that make sense to you Steve? Would be fantastic if you could drop me a short note.
     Thanks

     Ty

     Reply
229. John Morgan says:

     June 6, 2013 at 11:20 am

     Steve,
     I live in Mazatlan and have since 2006. I was e-mailing with a friend yesterday. She has lived in Mazatlan for 7 years and was going to renew and get permanent status. She was told by Mazatlan INM that she could not have permanent status. She would need to start over with some other process and it would cost her 4000 pesos. Later she talked to a friend of hers who had just taken her car to Nogales to import/legalize it. After legalizing the car, her friend then went to get plates for it and was told there is no more permanent status. I am not sure of what happened with getting the plates. My friend talked to a gringo who was in INM and he told her the same thing. No more permanent status.

     I checked with a friend who is in the know to find if he had heard anything about this. Nope. I checked the forums at WhatupMaz. Nothing. I checked your Web site. Nothing.

     Today, the friend who knows a lot of people in Maz, checked with some of them and he said in an e-mail: “I have found others who have said no more permanent visas are being issued by INM. Instead, 3-year temporary visas are being processed. I spoke with a person who seems to stay on top of legal happenings in Mexico and he shook his head saying, “Permanent visas are the law.”

     I am now wondering if this is the INM response to the vehicle nationalizing fiasco.”
     ================
     ================

     So being as none of this info is on your Web site, I am sure you have heard nothing about this. Will you check in to this and see if you can find further info about this? And if you find the above info to be true, does this change anything concerning the importation of cars that have caused so many of us problems and heartaches. And what about those of us who have already received permanente status? I am now visiting in the USA with my Japanese car that I would love to keep, but I am about a week or two from getting rid of it due to me having the permanent status. The above news is unbelievable to me, but I believe that what these folks have told me is true.

     Thank you,
     John

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       June 6, 2013 at 12:34 pm

       Hi John,
       Good Update.

       Your’s is the first word we have heard about this – with no mention on the 4 expat web forums we read.

       There has been no official news of changes at INM, except that in personal communications between Lawyer McMullin and the Jalisco INM offices, the INM officials told Spenser that changes were in the works – and they hinted that the changes might affect Residente Permanente applicants. McMullin and others speculated that INM managers believed that it was inappropriate to give foreigners permanent residency based only on $$ in the bank.

       It would make sense to follow the letter of the May 2011 INM law – where it says Permanent Resident applicants must complete 4 years of Residente Temporal first.

       Normally, I would head over to our Merida INM office and ask, but I’m out on travel now.
       steve

       Reply
230. John Morgan says:

     June 6, 2013 at 1:09 pm

     Thanks, Steve. Over the next days and weeks I am sure others will come forward and tell of their experiences. At some point we will get some kind of official word of what is going on. It is very strange to me that more people are not talking about this. Is this just happening in Mazatlan? We will see.

     John

     Reply
231. John Morgan says:

     June 6, 2013 at 7:43 pm

     Steve,
     A woman I know says that today someone she knows got his permanente card today with no problems. He has heard nothing about this no permanent status stuff. The people who are saying no permanent status may be people who had FM3s for several years and thought they were going to get permanent status. I don’t know, but I will try to get more info about this. So disregard my info and entries. Sorry for the confusion. A friend just e-mailed me this info:

     “Putting some pieces together, INM wants to see a number 3 on the back of the current plastic Immigrante visa. Mine has a number 3, so will find out in October (when he has to renew). Maybe people are not understanding their current INM standing and then creating the confusion.”

     Well, my FM2 had a 2 on the back and they gave me a permanente card back in February. (?)

     John

     Reply
     • Fred says:

       July 3, 2013 at 2:09 pm

       I just submitted my papers for P.R. and nothing was said about no more perm. resid. I live in San Luis Potosi and have the number 4 on my old card

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         July 4, 2013 at 7:25 am

         Hi Fred,
         GOOD ! as it should be.
         steve
232. Nico says:

     June 18, 2013 at 12:54 pm

     Wonderful site. Thank you Steve.

     I stumbled upon this wealth of information while searching for a solution to our small dilemma. Unfortunately I have yet to read anything promising.

     Fairly recently my Inmigrante Asimilado(FM-2) was stolen/lost and we visited our local INM office (Vallarta) to inquire about replacing it. We were told(twice-2 different workers) that I’d immediately have to apply for a Residente Temporal, at full cost, to replace my old card and then at the time of the original’s expiration date in October I would have to switch to Residente Permanente, again at full cost(nearly 7000p!).

     We had planned on visiting the u.s in a couple of weeks and returning could then be problematic. Apparently however, if I lost my card there, I’m to acquire a Visitante when entering which is good until renew time in Oct(and $23?). Then I suppose I could obtain the Permanente?

     I’ve read posts elsewhere that describe what the process was like a couple of years ago but those rules don’t seem to apply any longer.

     Has anyone experienced this recently? Any light to shed?

     Thanks again.

     Reply
233. daniel hartman says:

     June 26, 2013 at 10:40 am

     Not sure if this has been addressed. We hold the immigrado status and the last time our card was reissued was in 2006. The card has no expiration date. When we were approved for immigrado it seemed there was no real limit to time away from Mexico (unless you were out of country for a year of so I believe). So where do we stand we the new system? We have been traveling in and out of Mexico for various years with no problem with the old card. How does the new law effect someone who is already immigrado. I am hearing there is limits on the time you can spend out of Mexico now.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       June 27, 2013 at 8:18 am

       Hi Daniel,
       No limits on being out of Mexico.

       Your Inmigrado status has legally been automatically migrated to Residente Permanente. You do have to register changes of address, etc (like before), and I think you are limited from working for foreign militaries or foreign governments… (but I need to check this)… You do not have to apply for a new card, but if you lose your old Inmigrado card, KEEP COPIES, to facilitate replacing it with the new Residente Permanente Tarjeta de Residencia.

       SRE is still working on how to deal with naturalized citizenship applications under the new INM Categories and Regs… So, your old Inmigrado status serves you much better to apply for citizenship (if you want that).

       All good news,
       steve

       Reply
234. dan hartman says:

     June 28, 2013 at 8:00 am

     thanks. good news. i was hearing stories that there was a limit on the number of days you were allowed out of mx peryear

     Reply
235. Angel says:

     July 3, 2013 at 4:39 pm

     Good day, i am a south african living in mexico for 2 years with an expired visa, what procedure do i need to follow to fix my status without having to leave the country.? I am working and can get a reference letter.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 4, 2013 at 7:18 am

       Hi Angel,
       You need to go into your INM office and find out what options you have. Generally, they apply fines/penalties, have you re-start the Residency process again, and get you legal…

       The reference letter really needs to be a formal offer of employment or formal declaration of employment. And yes, you need to register with Hacienda – get an RFC – and pay taxes….

       Otherwise, you are breaking the law, are liable for deportation, and liable for charges of tax evasion.

       Does South Africa welcome illegal aliens, who use government services, pay no taxes, work illegally (taking jobs from citizens), and stay in the country illegally?

       Our last readings of the Capetown news say no.

       Fortunately, Mexico is very gentle with people in your situation – and they generally welcome people who step forward, to make things right.

       Which side do we want to be on?
       Keeping Mexico a second-rate country in terms of laws, policing, and justice …?
       – Do we want to continue to be a country known for “road-side justice” and “road-side negotiations”; for bureaucrats arbitrarily levying unpublished “fines” and penalties – or doling out “favors”, and a country of citizens and guests who scurry about – skirting and openly breaking laws ???

       … or do we prefer a government and first-rate society that is known for reliably applying and citizens who adhere to laws ??

       Having the Rule of Law – and having a populace and government who follow it, really is a prescription for smoother better lives, in our view.

       Which Mexico do you want to live in?

       You will be fine – just start over – legitimately and legally.

       All the best,
       steve

       Reply
       • Angel says:

         July 9, 2013 at 3:01 pm

         STeve, Thanks for your reply and much needed information.. .YES, I shall proceed with legal proceedings ASAP! Mexico is my slice of paradise, irrespective. Exitos
236. John Goodenough says:

     July 8, 2013 at 4:57 pm

     Hi Steve,
     I am retired British Citizen and have a son who lives in Mexico, married to a Mexican. I am planning on moving there permanently in the near future. I have been in contact with the Mexican Consulate in London and have been given advise which is different than that experienced my son. My son changed his immigration status from tourist status to FM3 status by entering the country on tourist visa and then applying for the change within 30 days at his local immigration office (Cancun). He is in the process of now applying for residente permanente. The Consulate in London told me that I should apply for a visa prior to travelling to Mexico. Given I have a Mexican daughter in law and Mexican born grandchild and my son has the mentioned visa, please advise as to whether I can follow the same route my son took, or whether I need to get my “residente temporal” visa issued before leaving the UK
     Many Thanks
     John

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 8, 2013 at 8:44 pm

       Hello,
       If you only want a Resident Temporal card, then yes, you apply at a Mexican Consulate in your home country (England).

       If you really are the grandfather of a Mexican child, then I understand you qualify to apply for Residente Permanente without returning to England….

       Is your marriage to the Mexicana registered with an official Registro Civil?
       If so, then our best understanding is that you, like American friends of ours, can apply as a Residente Permanente: Vinculo Familiar por Unidad de Familia from here in Mexico.
       See:

       Click to access Cambio_de_condicion_de_residente_permanente_por_unidad_familiar.pdf

       and

       Click to access POR_VINCULO_FAMILIAR.pdf

       for the actual instructions.

       All the best,
       steve

       Reply
237. John Goodenough says:

     July 9, 2013 at 11:44 am

     Hello Steve
     Thanks for the response. In rereading my first sentence I probably confused you. It is my son who is married to a Mexican, not me. Does that change anything, or through being the grandfather of a Mexican child I can apply once in Mexico for Residente Permanente?
     Thanks so much for your help
     John

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 9, 2013 at 1:09 pm

       Hi John,
       An American friend of ours, who has an American son who married a Mexicana, then had a Mexican citizen grandchild – giving the American Grandpa a Mexican grandchild.

       That fits the Unidad de Familiar principle – and he and the wife were quickly given Residente Permanente status, using the Vinculo familiar, Mexican – blood relative – grandchild – route.

       Can you meet the requirements listed in the .pdf weblink I posted in my first reply?
       steve

       Reply
238. kelly flockton says:

     July 9, 2013 at 1:48 pm

     Hi there, I have found this information very useful. I am a British citizen wanting to emigrate to Playa Del Carmen I tried to get a temporary residency visa at the Mexican Embassy in London but got refused. They basically said I need a sponsor / job offer. Obviously it’s near impossible to get a job without living there. Anyway, I have remorgaged my property in England and now have enough savings to buy a small property outright in Playa. I am wondering if it is possible to buy a property without having the temporary residency as I won’t be able to open a bank account, but I was thinking that how do people go about buying holiday homes? My plan would be buy my little house in Playa and live off the small rental income I’ll have and maybe do a bit of nanny work. I would be grateful for replies thanks

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 9, 2013 at 6:09 pm

       Hi Kelly,
       If you read the section above on proving personal fiscal solvency to meet Temporary Residency requirements: Proof of Financial Independence for Residency Applicants

       You will find:
       “**Residente Temporal Income or Deposits or Bank Balance Requirements:
       (Manual/Lineamientos Article 41)
       ~ Documentation of Proof of Financial Independence by Average Annual Bank Balance: Provide 12 months of original bank or investment account statements (plus copies) as proof savings/investments, to show minimum Average Monthly Balance amounts equivalent to twenty thousand days of the general minimum wage in the District Federal for the previous twelve months…
       … Average Monthly Balance of at least : about $100,000 USD (exactly $1,295,200 MXN pesos) at $13:1 MXN:USD for Residente Temporal.

       or
       Using Method of Monthly Deposits of Income or Pension Receipts: (Resident Temporal)
       ~ Have minimum pension or salary deposits/income that is the equivalent of four hundred days worth of the current minimum wage in the Federal District, for each of the previous six months – with original and copies of original bank statement for one Residente Temporal.

       Do you have enough in savings to meet the requirements shown above?

       Alternately, you can come to Mexico on an FMM Visitante permit. There are at least 2 Mexican banks (including Banamex) who offer accounts to visitors. You can buy property near the coast here, using a real estate trust (Fideicomiso), using your visitor visa and Mexican bank account.
       steve

       Reply
239. lascosas says:

     July 12, 2013 at 2:47 pm

     On April 3rd I wrote a long entry here detailing my experience getting approval of a permanente visa at the San Francisco, California Mexican Consulate. By the end of that day I been approved for permanente status and had a one-time permanente visa in my US passport good for entry into Mexico within 6 months of issue. This is to update my saga with what happened once I arrived in Mexico. I am bothering to go in such detail because virtually all of the discussion on-line about permanente concerns people who are transferring from the old FM3 or FM2 into the new permanente, not those of us starting from scratch with an application outside the country. So, here goes.

     We flew into Mexico, and as always we were given the custom & and immigration forms to complete. Even though we had the visa already, we still needed to complete the immigration form (and of course the customs form). The immigration officer entered the relevant information in his computer. I have no idea what information that was, but instead of the normal 30 seconds it took a couple of minutes of typing stuff before we were handed the same bottom of the form (“tourist visa”) as always and sent on our way.

     We had 30 days from the time we entered the country to appear at the IMN office nearest to the address listed in our application for permanente. In order for our information to be accepted by INM we needed the following:
     1. One copy of the pages in the passport showing the permanente visa and the photo page at the front of the passport.
     2. The original and one copy of the bank receipt showing that we paid the 3,815 peso fee.
     3. A printout of the completed online application with an original signature.
     4. The original of the tourist visa.

     I know of no way to do all of this in one trip because you need INM to give you the printout with the endless detail used by the bank to correctly register the payment.

     The online application can be found here: http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php/page/Solicitud_de_Estancia
     The entire application is in Spanish, but except for the first 2 questions, the form is very easy to figure out. Here are the correct selections on the pull down menu for the first 2 questions:
     QUE DESEA HACER
     Canjear o reponer documento migratorio
     ESPECIFIQUE
     Canje de FMM por Tarjeta de Visitante o de Residente

     Later on the application asks for your CURP number. If you don’t have one, just leave it blank.

     When you entered the INM offices you went to the front and signed their book. People were called in the order they signed the book. The person at INM who takes your documents stamps them all, enters stuff in their computer and gives you a single page in return, a Comprobante de Registro de Solicitud. That has a pieza numero and contrasena (password) as well as your NUT. Using these three numbers you can go to the web page listed in the letter and check the status of your application. Don’t lose that page!

     Within 24 hours of INM accepting our documents, the below was listed as the status of our application:
     El trámite ha sido registrado
     Ha sido asignado el tipo de trámite
     Presentarse en una oficina del INM
     Registre los datos para la expedición de su documento migratorio

     A hyperlink took me to a page where I imputed info including my religion, amount of education, whether I spoke Spanish,what I did for a living before coming to Mexico and a few more statistical things. In almost all cases the answers needed to be selected from pull-down menus.

     We returned to INM, bringing with us the required photos: 2 frente, 1 perfil derecho, color de estudio, infantil. Make sure you use a photo shop that has their photos accepted by INM. Word is that they have gotten much pickier lately. We were then fingerprinted and told to check the web for notice when the cards would be ready. We were told 3 to 4 weeks. The INM office we used was in Chapala, Jalisco. And to repeat, 24 hours after submitting materials to INM we could go back for fingerprinting. Now, the permanente status was approved before we entered the country, but still, 24 hours?

     I’ll update this when the card is ready, but I wanted to end with a comment. We ended up going to INM three times, and in each case we waited about 10 minutes before our names were called.

     During each of these minimum waits, at least one gringo entered the office, went up to the counter and started demanding things. Not yelling, but showing a considerable lack of courtesy to the staff. In each case INM staff responded politely, in English, by asking the person to sign the book.

     I saw only one other gringo smile and thank the staff. Staff was working very hard, trying to handle a wide spectrum of concerns.

     It was embarrassing that the gringos were so grouchy.

     When we left after our papers were accepted I thanked the person who helped us and told her how honored I was that Mexico had accepted us as permanent residents of their country. When I returned today she remembered me and gave me a huge smile.

     Is that why our paperwork was completed in record time? I have no idea. But I meant what I said to her, and it was clear that she wasn’t used to hearing such things. I think that is sad. Do you have any idea how rude and capricious immigration staff often is in the United States?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 12, 2013 at 3:46 pm

       Dandy Report !
       Thanks! steve

       Reply
240. Lynn Z says:

     July 12, 2013 at 2:53 pm

     Good for you! A simple smile and thank you goes a long way and yes some gringo’s can be rude and it’s not right.

     Reply
241. Dave says:

     July 12, 2013 at 4:03 pm

     Nowadays it seems that until the new system has had a change to become routine, there is no way to avoid the time consuming process of three visits to INM to get any status approved.
     One to submit your application, the second to get fingerprinted and the third to pick up your new card. We used to be able to do all three and get our new card in 1 ( one ) day but our friend in the INM office even said that that not being able to be fingerprinted at the same time you submit your application is just plain stupid and that given time it will probably change, but for now it’s just a p.i.t.a.which cannot be avoided.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 12, 2013 at 10:07 pm

       Hey Dave,
       Three visits to INM to get Permanent Residency, almost no documentation, and less than $300 USD, and never have to go back again, make up this year’s 3 visits – a relatively easy process that I appreciate.

       To keep things in context, compare Mexico to USA and Canada: We had to go 7 times in the USA over a period of 16 months (with over 10 hours spent in US govt. offices), to get my wife’s 450 page Permanent Residency application settled in the USA – with no travel allowed outside of the USA during that 18 months. Then the CIS/ICE/Homeland Security raised the bar, and required us to stay in an additional 18 months in the USA, file yet more forms, and pay a total of over $1,000 USD to qualify for Permanent Residency. And then the USA takes away the residency if we are out of the USA more than they like.

       Does Canada give real Permanent Residency to foreigners in 3 visits spread over 1 month, for under $300 Loonies?

       Maybe it is time to have a “North American” citizenship, that allows law-abiding Americans, Canadians and Mexicans to move and work easily between the 3 countries – dropping all the visits to immigration?
       steve

       Reply
242. Dave says:

     July 13, 2013 at 8:23 am

     Permanent residence is one thing as it puts you on the road to citizenship, if that’s what you want but the same rig-a-marole also applies to residencia temporal, which is what our friend in INM was talking about.. Again not that it is unbearable but it’s still a p.i.t.a. seeing as it could be done so much faster in the past.
     Don’t know where your wife was from originally but when I immigrated/applied for residence in the U.S.( many years ago ) it only took one visit to the U.S. Embassy., a three month wait for the visa and that was it , followed by the 5 year wait as a green card and then automatic citizenship if I wanted it. Not to mention that I had all the rights and responsibilities of a U.S. citizen except the right to vote. Maybe things have changed, but back then I could come and go as I pleased so I didn’t feel restricted in any way. I was able to work and get all the social benefits of the system etc.
     Not exactly the same as residencia temporal or permanente ( green card ). I don’t believe you get any of the benefits of the system until you are a citizen ….. only the responsibilities and obligations.
     Not complaining …… just saying that compared to how things worked in the past, the new system needs a little refinement.

     Reply
243. lascosas says:

     July 13, 2013 at 9:23 am

     A minor clarification. I have already gone to INM three times and will need to go again to pick up the laminated visa. The one visit I would hope others could avoid is going to INM solely to be given the form showing the amount owed and the information needed to have the money deposited into the correct account of INM. Is that information published somewhere that people can use to figure this out themselves and take directly to the bank?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 13, 2013 at 4:44 pm

       Hi lascosas,
       The “form” that INM gives you is more than just an accounting list of what you need to pay.

       It is a formal order to a bank, that the bank uses to properly credit both INM and credit your account with INM for the payment you give to the bank. Since we want our payments to be credited to the balance we owe the INM, then you really do need to get the payment document from INM before going to the bank.

       The information about what is owed is listed in the article above, including $1,000 pesos application fee for changing status. The $1,000 peso application fee for changing status is charged early in the INM process. The final Residente Temporal or Permanente permit charges are issued later, after you have been approved.

       By separating the payments, we ONLY pay for the residency permit when we have already been approved. This protects us from being billed for a residency card, and then later being denied that card due to some missing document or missing information.

       In all cases, the payments systems seem to be designed to protect the applicants from mischarges, overcharges, and to properly credit our payments to settle our INM bills.
       steve

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         July 13, 2013 at 4:47 pm

         Lascosas,
         Here is the applicable section from the article above:

         INM Residente Temporal and Residente Permanente Permit Fees
         INM Permit (Tarjeta de Residencia) Fees from Article 80, Ley Federal de Derechos (D.O.F. Sept. 4, 2012):

         Artículo 8o. Por la expedición del documento migratorio que acredita la condición de estancia se
         pagarán derechos conforme a las siguientes cuotas:
         I. Visitante sin permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas …………………… $295.00
         II. Visitante con permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas ……………… $2,350.00
         III. Visitante Regional ……………………………………………………………………………… $295.00
         IV. Visitante Trabajador Fronterizo ………………………………………………………… $295.00
         V. Visitante con fines de adopción ………………………………………………………… $2,280.00

         VI. Residente Temporal:
         a). Hasta un año ………………………………………………………………………………. $3,130.00
         b). Dos años …………………………………………………………………………………… $4,690.00
         c). Tres años ………………………………………………………………………………… $5,940.00
         d). Cuatro años ……………………………………………………………………………… $7,040.00
         ~ e). Lucrativo (Addicional)…………………………………………………………… $2,600.00 ~

         VII. Residente Permanente …………………………………………………………… $3,815.00

         When changing from Residente Temporal to Residente Permanente, in 2013, INM charges an additional $1,000 pesos to process the change, on top of the base $3,815 pesos fee.…
         steve
244. lascosas says:

     July 14, 2013 at 7:04 am

     Thanks! So four visits to INM are required, and two visits to the consulate in the US in order to receive a permanente visa. The fees I paid were $36 USD at the consulate for the one time entry visa and $3,815 pesos when I submitted my paperwork to INM.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 14, 2013 at 10:46 am

       That makes sense. Different fees if you are applying the first time for residency vs. changing residency categories. Good update. Thanks!
       steve

       Reply
245. justin says:

     July 16, 2013 at 4:45 am

     Hi
     It takes about how many working days and how many separate times of visit to INM office for exchanging the temporary/permanent visa issued by the consulate to a temporary/permanent card?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 16, 2013 at 6:22 am

       Hi Justin,
       It takes either 3 or 4 visits for most INM locations, spread over 4 – 6 weeks. A few offices are doing something unusual: processing things in under 10 days, ( like Colima ), but that is just downright mysterious to the rest of us.
       steve

       Reply
       • Fred says:

         July 19, 2013 at 8:37 pm

         I applied for PR on July 1, fingerprint on july 3 and PR card in hand 8 days later. I live in San Luis Potosi
246. justin says:

     July 16, 2013 at 7:03 am

     Hi Steve

     Thanks for the quick reply. Would that mean usually I have to stay in Mexico (or even the same city in mexico) for 4-6 weeks, which is the time needed for the process of application?
     Also I notice that you need a confirmed address, either utility bill/bank account/ or letter from the landlord for the application. But if I just arrive in Mexico, I would not have utility bill/bank account, and most likely stay in a hotel a a friend’s place. Would the hotel address or a friend’s address acceptable?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 16, 2013 at 11:43 am

       Hi Justin,
       You wrote:
       …”Thanks for the quick reply. Would that mean usually I have to stay in Mexico (or even the same city in mexico) for 4-6 weeks, which is the time needed for the process of application?” …

       This is ONE of your options – to be personally available to go to INM.

       You also have the option to use or hire a local representative to do all of the visits for you, except for the one visit where you provide signature(s) and fingerprints. If you file the appropriate requests, you can even have your final card sent to you, if you are back in Canada or the USA – though that may also be handled by a representative.
       steve

       Reply
       • justin says:

         July 16, 2013 at 5:00 pm

         Hi Steve

         Thanks for the answer, what about the address for application? If when just arriving in Mexico, Would the hotel address or a friend’s address acceptable? or would a address outside Mexico acceptable?
       • yucalandia says:

         July 16, 2013 at 9:04 pm

         Hi Justin,
         Ooooops. I missed answering your question about an address.

         It needs to be the actual address of where you live in Mexico. Apartment addresses, and comprabante’s in the landlord’s name are fine.

         Note that every time you move, you must register the address change for your new Mexican address.

         Since you are applying for RESIDENCY, you really are supposed to be a resident. I suspect that INM might kick the application if you are have no place to live, and are temporarily staying in a hotel – though I have no precedents nor any statutes that I can quote.

         I will check with our local INM office to see what criteria they use,
         steve
       • yucalandia says:

         July 17, 2013 at 1:52 pm

         Hi Justin,
         As I wrote yesterday:
         … “I will check with our local INM office to see what criteria they use, ” …

         I went to our Merida INM office today to ask about the rules on your situation with a Mexican address.

         They said that “only people who either are residents or people who are becoming residents in Mexico are allowed to apply for Residente Temporal“. They further explained that you “must have an actual physical Mexican address where you reside, that you then produce a comprabante (CFE bill, water agency bill, etc) that proves your residency’s physical address”

         When I explained that you might be staying in a hotel, they looked alarmed and then stern, and they explained that “It is not possible for a Residente Temporal applicant to be just visiting.” “It is not permitted (no permitido) for a Residente Temporal applicant to be living in a hotel.”

         So, all their answers fit our prior advice to you (above): Applying for Residente Temporal, means that you are agreeing to be a resident of Mexico. By definition, residents have physical addresses, like a home or an apartment. Staying at a hotel does not qualify.

         Hope that gives you a clear indication of what is allowed,
         steve
247. Sunita Sharma says:

     July 16, 2013 at 9:04 pm

     My FMM got expired 20 days ago because of 30 days of stamping on FMM by immigration. I have a Valid Mexico Visa. I want to renew it. Can we renew it and whats the fees for the same? Whom to contact?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 17, 2013 at 6:50 am

       Hi Sunita,
       By legal definition, if your FMM Visitante visa expired 20 days ago, then you have NO valid Mexican visa.

       Unfortunately, you cannot renew an FMM Visitante. You must leave Mexico. You can get a fresh FMM Visitante at the border, without flying out of the country. If you do fly out, you can be charged $5 a day in late fees, but I saw one INM officer assess just a $40 USD fine. It might be easier to just drive to a border crossing and do it there – as they may charge you no fine.

       Come back and drop us a line describing how it turned out – including details that can help others with the same problem in the future,
       steve

       Reply
       • Sunita Sharma says:

         July 17, 2013 at 8:09 am

         Steve Thanks. But my FMM should be for 180 days as I have Visa till Nov. So I only need too extend my FMM because I wil be flying back in less than 180 days. I am ready to pay th fees. I have a return flight of next month.
       • yucalandia says:

         July 17, 2013 at 8:51 am

         Hi Sunita,
         Note that FMMs are NOT automatically issued for 180 days. …

         FMM Visitante visa lengths are (and always have been) at the DISCRETION of the INM agent who approves your FMM application.

         You wrote:
         … “My FMM got expired 20 days ago because of 30 days of stamping on FMM by immigration. ” …

         If your FMM really only was issued for just 30 days, and it expired 20 days ago (as you wrote), then you are currently in Mexico illegally.

         Fortunately, Mexico does not react like Canada or the USA when they find “illegal aliens” – like your situation.

         Mexican Govt. officials almost always simply scold the “illegal alien” who has overstayed their visa, and issue them a fine.

         FOR SURE: DO NOT just slip out of Mexico without notifying INM of you overstaying your FMM. Various Canadians and Americans have been fined very large fines, when they try to re-enter Mexico in the future (based on $5 a day since the official expiration date), because INM now has nationwide computerized databases that check our Names and our Passport Numbers against any old not-previously-cancelled FMM Visitor visas….

         All the best,
         steve
       • Sunita says:

         July 18, 2013 at 4:58 pm

         Just to let you know that I went to immigration office at airport and they asked me to come early on the day I am flying ..I need to fill a form, pay the fees and I can fly and there will be no issues in future..Thanks for your help
       • yucalandia says:

         July 19, 2013 at 6:26 am

         Excellent !

         Let’s hope they only charge you the default $35 USD or $40 USD charge for losing your paperwork…

         Thanks for coming back to tell us what happened. If possible, could you come back later and report how many days your visa was expired, and how much the airport INM charged you? We have not heard the amounts for expired visa fines for the past 2 years.

         Your report would help others,
         steve
248. justin says:

     July 16, 2013 at 9:34 pm

     Hi Steve
     Because you only have 30 days to apply for application after arrival, and when just arrive, it may not be easy to find a suitable long term accommodation within 30 days, and the most likely scenario at the initial stage of arriving is staying at a hotel or a bed and breakfast, a guest house ,or a friend’s home. How does INM office handle such case?

     Reply
249. Mandy says:

     July 17, 2013 at 4:15 pm

     Hello,
     I need some help, i had a job offer in Mexico. So my job started a application for work visa. We have applied end of may but nothing has changed except the registered status.
     When i checked the INM website. I was able to see 3 steps (
     El trámite ha sido registrado
     El tramite ha sido asignado
     El tramite ha sido classificado

     Then one day the last step disapeared, and switched to Ha sido asignado el tipo de trámite.
     Couple weeks after they switched again to just registered and asigned
     My job tells me the papers should be ready but then nothing.
     How loes does it typically take? How can i make sure no one is lying to me?
     They are also suggesting to go there to finish papers.
     What do you think of this?
     Will i be able to go there and get my final stamp there or does this sound weird ?
     Any idea of a paper i can get to be signed for security?
     Let me know any helps is important
     Thank you

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 17, 2013 at 4:34 pm

       Hi Mandy,
       Where do you live?
       Your IP address indicates that you are posting from the USA.

       Does you employer know what they are doing with their support of your application for a WORKING (lucrativo) Residente Temporal INM permiso_ ?

       I cannot make heads or tales from what you describe – as it does not make sense with the existing INM procedures or Mexican Consulate procedures for foreigners who do NOT have existing legal residency in Mexico – and are likely currently living in Mexico – while your IP says that you are in the USA.

       Are you a legal resident of Mexico, with either a Residente Temporal card, or an Inmigrante card, or a No Inmigrante card?
       If you do not have one of these cards, your employer cannot apply at INM for you.

       If you do not already have current Mexican residency from a prior INM approval, then you have to start over, following accepted protocols, and file your application first with a Mexican Consulate. Your prospective employer can only start a WORKING Residente Temporal application for you, IF you already have existing legal residency in Mexico. You CANNOT enter Mexico on an FMM Visitante/tourist visa to get a working Residente Temporal INM permit.

       Really, the standard rules and standard procedure is that
       1. your prospective employer is supposed to provide you with a letter, that you then provide to your local Mexican Consulate.

       2. You apply for the WORKING (lucrativo) Residente Temporal INM permiso at your local Mexican Consulate.

       3. Your local Mexican Consulate has its own procedures that must happen first, e.g. they have the option to require you to supply proof from your local US law enforcement agency that you have NO criminal record before they give you a visa to enter USA.

       4. When you give the Consulate the documents they need, then you pay the Mexican Consulate, and

       5. when the Consulate approves your application for starting the Residente Temporal process, the Mexican Consulate then issues you a special visa that you use to travel to Mexico (within 6 months), and

       6. you enter Mexico with that special visa – and

       7. you then apply at your local INM office within Mexico to complete your approval and complete your process for the WORKING (lucrativa) Residente Temporal INM tarjeta. …

       I cannot make heads or tales of why your employer prematurely started an application, from what you describe – as it does not make sense with the existing INM procedures.

       It may be possible that your local Mexican employer has botched things up, by pre-maturely starting the process in Mexico with INM – where you actually start the process with your Mexican Consul.

       Only the Mexican Consulates (e.g. in the USA or Canada) can give you a visa to enter Mexico to work (unless you are already a Mexican resident). … This is because visas to enter Mexico are the SOLE responsibility of SRE (the parent organization of the Consulates). Inmigration is part of SEGOB – and SEGOB has ZERO authority to issue you a visa that allows you entry into Mexico to work …

       So, There appears to be ZERO evidence of anyone lying to you…

       The evidence appears to show that your local employer has mistakenly filed a Residente Temporal application on your behalf at SEGOB/INM – which will simply not work under how SRE issues visas to enter Mexico. … This is as if a Mexican had started their immigration process by going to the US Department of Labor to apply for a visa to enter the USA to work…. Instead, Mexicans must apply to the US State Department to start the process. In this analogy, you must go through the Mexican State Department (SRE and the Consulates) – not the internal INM SEGOB system.

       What actions have you taken, and where did you take them?

       I suspect you may have to start over, following accepted protocols, and file your application first with a Mexican Consulate.
       steve

       Reply
250. justin says:

     July 17, 2013 at 5:23 pm

     Hi Steve

     Thanks for all the help, as I wrote yesterday “Because you only have 30 days to apply for application after arrival, and when just arrive, it may not be easy to find a suitable long term accommodation within 30 days, and the most likely scenario at the initial stage of arriving is staying at a hotel or a bed and breakfast, a guest house ,or a friend’s home. How does INM office handle such case?”
     Does it means I must find a long term residential address which can produce a comprabante within 30 days of arrival, or my residential visa will become invalid? Also some lanlords may be reluctant to issue an formal doucument to prove the rental because some lanlords may not want to pay tax and that can in turn to make the finding of rental whiich can produce a comprabante harder. It is impossible to produce a utility bill within 30 days of arrival. So the onus is on the landlord. How about renting not directly from the landlord, but rent a room in an apartment from someone who rent the entire apartment from the landlord?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 18, 2013 at 6:13 am

       Hi Justin,
       With an apartment, the landlord would simply give you a bill from CFE, et al, and it does not matter at all whose name is on the bill.

       Apartment owners know that they need to do this, so the knowlegeable ones readily offer you their power bill.

       Hope this helps,
       steve

       Reply
251. justin says:

     July 18, 2013 at 6:40 am

     Hi Steve

     Thanks very much for all the information. Now I know what type of accommodation I should look for when arriving Mexico. Just one more question, Upon completion of the permanent resident application and the permanent resident card is collected, and as a permanent resident, is there a requirement for minimum duration stay in Mexico each year and/or in a certain period? Or what is the maximum days allowed when not in Mexico?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 18, 2013 at 11:09 am

       Hi Justin,
       Once you have your Residente Permanente card there are no time limit restrictions. The only restrictions that I know of are that you do have to notify them of “home” address changes and changes in work address.

       Glad things worked out with the questions,
       steve

       Reply
252. kelly flockton says:

     July 18, 2013 at 11:03 am

     Hi Steve,
     Please could you provide a link to the ‘lucrativo Residente Temporal’ apllication I am having trouble locating it on the Inm website.

     Much appreciated and thank you for the informatiobn on buying houses it was very useful.

     Kelly

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 18, 2013 at 11:19 am

       Hi Kelly,
       Your request took a bit of digging…. but: http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/Tramites_LM/Autorizacion_Visas_LM/Visa_oferta_de_empleo.pdf

       works fine,
       steve

       Reply
253. tax preparation help says:

     July 20, 2013 at 4:46 am

     How does insurance Work in a dealer finance
     car if it where to get in a accident?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 20, 2013 at 6:08 am

       I don’t know.

       Check with you insurance company, since each company has the discretion to set their own policies.
       steve

       Reply
254. Dave says:

     July 20, 2013 at 8:37 am

     Curious …. I thought you couldn’t bring a car into Mexico unless you had clear title. Can’t imagine a U.S. bank/finance/insurance company allowing you to take a vehicle out of the country if you still owed money on it. Not to mention that 99% of U.S. auto insurance is invalid in Mexico. Explanation ?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 20, 2013 at 9:39 am

       Hi Dave,
       Good question.

       Yes, we can easily bring our vehicles (with loans) into Mexico under Temporary permits, as long as we have an official letter from the non-Mexican lien-holder approving you to bring the vehicle into Mexico.

       Re 99% w/o auto insurance coverage:
       We have no idea what the exact % is of companies that do not cover accidents in Mexico – but there are international companies that offer coverage on BOTH sides of the border. …

       Practically, even if your insurance does offer coverage in Mexico – like the Credit Card companies insurance on rental cars – but because these policies are NOT specifically designed for Mexico – are you highly confident that they cover Mexico-specific issues?

       ~ Do they cover a substantial ($1 million peso or higher) FISCAL BOND … ?
       This is the coverage that bonds you against being detained – no food / no water – indefinitely – because you cannot prove to the satisfaction of the local police that you have enough $$ assets or specific insurance to cover any and all possible damages and medical problems related to an accident….

       Do they cover the up to $5 million peso liability (varies by state) for injuries/death?

       and yes: In Mexico, BOTH parties (guilty and innocent) are often put in jail, until the police can sort things out – no food / no water – for days – until your INSURANCE company’s ADJUSTOR proves your ability to pay….

       So, the Credit Card “insurance protections”, really almost universally DO NOT cover the essential liabilities that routinely pop up in routine auto accidents. …

       For some unknown reason, you are asking about car things in our Immigration article.
       We invite you to read our articles on Cars, Importing Cars, and Driving in Mexico: You want coverage that fits reality.
       steve

       Reply
255. mandy says:

     July 21, 2013 at 2:42 pm

     Thank you for your time and help Steve,
     I am having mix answers and i am a bit confused, from the side of my job they told me i had to wait for immigration to give there ok and then i go to the Consulate (I live in the USA), I actually went direcly to the consulate a month ago, and they told me the same, that as long as the immigration didnt say ok they couldnt do anything for me. I’m a bit confused. Is there an option that i just go direcly to Mexico to try to do it myself? Aparently the employer has to file the papers. As you can imagine i am very lost

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 21, 2013 at 7:24 pm

       Hi Mandy,
       I don’t know what to tell you.

       Clearly, the Consulate and your INM office’s approach is not working….

       And… their approach does not fit the law… or the Reglamento… or the Lineamientos…

       Since your INM office and your employer decided to make their own way up, for doing this, I think you need to pressure them to either get their method working, and tell them if they do not get the process moving, then get the letter I described = and point to that official web page of information, and shift things to your Mexican Consulate. ???
       steve

       Reply
256. Frank says:

     July 27, 2013 at 3:28 pm

     Recieved my Residente Permanente yesterday in Cancun. Applied at the Mexican consulate in Philadelphia in the middle of May. Came to Cancun,to the INM May 30th.(Total of 5 visits) No lawyer needed.Just some patience. Very happy. My fiance (Mexicana) and I celebrated last night.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 27, 2013 at 10:21 pm

       Congrats !
       Well Done,
       steve

       Reply
257. stetson2015 says:

     August 2, 2013 at 2:46 pm

     Steve, I have been researching my 2016 move to Mexico for about 10 years now. It was scary from about November 2012 to this spring because nobody knew all the rules changes and the consequences of the new rules. There was a time when I didn’t think I was going to be able to juggle the financial requirements, and this meant giving up on a dream. I learned more in an hour about retiring in Mexico reading your blog than I found out the previous six months, and this includes several phone calls to the Mexican consulate. So I sincerely thank you for your concise and accurate information. It’s been invaluable to me. Dianne

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 3, 2013 at 6:44 am

       Hi Dianne,
       Thank you.

       We received some key good help when we moved here in 2006, and I much appreciated that help – so, I decided to “pay it forward” by starting this website.
       steve

       Reply
258. Kaye says:

     August 4, 2013 at 10:33 am

     Re your comment of: “Hopefully, the INM will issue their specific rules for the new “Points System” in January or February, allowing expats to qualify for Residente Permanente using an aggregate Points Score of meeting part of the income threshold, part of the savings account balance threshold, and part of the real estate ownership value threshold (even when they do not have enough of any single $$ amount to qualify, but a combination of lower amounts is enough).”

     Looking for help for renewing in the Progreso office. I had to let my FM3 expire in 2011, thanks to all the changes that were occurring at the time . I reapplied and got a new one so I now only have 1 year into my possible four years RT. I will be renewing this trip and am trying to decide if I should renew for the remaining 3 yrs or try for RP. By the way, it was done just before the change from FM3 to RT…due to renew in Oct (issued 10-11-12)

     Here is my first question…since I would be renewing if I go RT, would I be required to show income verification? Second question: If I decide to apply for RP, has anyone had success in the Progreso office using the Point System, a combination of retirement income and home value? My records on my home don’t reflect it’s full value…another issue, thanks to my notario. 😦

     Worried that if I applied for RP and got rejected, would I have to start the whole process again or would they just issue RT? Don’t want to let the RT expire in hopes of getting RP (only to be denied)and the process might take longer than the one month early they allow to start renewal. I was one of those whose purchase price was improperly recorded…but I didn’t realize what was happening at the time. (Note: Always be informed…that’s for another question later. 😦 )

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 4, 2013 at 12:35 pm

       Hi Kaye,
       How have you been?

       Your plans sound good. Yes, I would apply for 3 years on the Residente Temporal card. The last applicants we knew who went through Progreso, did not have to show financials for renewing an existing/valid FM2/FM3 as the Residente Temporal.

       Re the Resident Permanente application: Do you meet the requirements? I think you could go in – tell them your story and describe your personal situation, and they may say – Yes, you qualify… If you qualify, then go on-line and file your application as a Residente Permanente.

       In the case where they tell you don’t qualify for Permanente, you don’t have to spend the $1,000 peso fee for applying to change from Temporary to Permanente. With the final $3,800 peso fee for the Residente Permanente, you only pay that when they have given your final approval.

       Since the individual INM offices and agents have some discretion in what they require, it really is best to ask, if you think you might qualify using a variety of positive characteristics.
       All the best,
       steve

       Reply
259. Kaye says:

     August 4, 2013 at 1:19 pm

     I am just a little unclear. Are you suggesting that I go into the Progreso office first and see if I qualify by the point system, explaining my situation, and if they tell me no I don’t qualify, then I should apply online for the 3 year renewal? Can that be determined by the Progreso people in that office without submission of the documents for exam/approval by higher ups? Since I arrive Aug 15, I can go in and ask then, as I cannot begin the RT renewal process until Sept 11, anyway…as I can only apply 30 days early. I was just worried that if they should tell me in the Progreso office they think I qualify by point system and have me apply for that, then, if, for some reason, I could then be denied by higher ups (due to lack of sufficient retirement income and not allowing consideration of the property ownership). Also, if that denial took too long in coming, I could possibly run afoul of the deadline to go ahead and renew my RT. I wouldn’t want any breaks in it, should I need to go that route again. Thanks for your quick response. Also, did you see my question about customs and bringing in tools under “What can I bring into Mexico”. I haven’t seen a response to that one. Thanks for all your time given to help us….it’s much appreciated for sure.

     Reply
     • Kaye says:

       August 4, 2013 at 1:22 pm

       And by the way…I am doing well…thanks for asking. 🙂 Hope you are doing well too.

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 4, 2013 at 9:12 pm

       Hi Kaye,
       You understand perfectly.

       Our Merida office has an information desk – generally staffed with a very well instructed person, whose job is to answer questions and evaluate people’s situations – and advise them. So, when you go to Progreso, check if there are 2 lines – one for the Info person and one for the people with active pending applications.

       I missed the question about tools – I will head off to check,
       steve

       Reply
260. Kaye says:

     August 4, 2013 at 10:13 pm

     Thanks, Steve. Each time I have been to the Progreso branch, there has been one security guard and 2 girls…but usually only one of them helps people. The other has mainly just been in the background. The main person that signs the docs is only there at certain times..I have only seen her once…don’t know if others are in back room. So I will just ask, and if I have to return after she checks with someone else, I will return for an answer. Just hope it’s the one I want. 😉

     Reply
261. readingterminal says:

     August 15, 2013 at 1:24 pm

     Wow, the length needed to cover the relevant details, plus all the comments, makes for a tough read. Perhaps it is time, at least, to separate info for those first timers who need to apply at the Mexican consulate covering their area of residence, from those of us already in the system who start our paperwork at the local INM delegation. (Besides first times, those declining Resident Permanente who need to reapply for a Residente Temporal must go out of Mexico and start a new process with the relevant Mexican consulate.)
     Also, I do not know if WordPress supports in text links, but an instruction to go to the end of the text really takes us into a difficult swim downstream, as doing a cntrl end places one at the end of the over 528 comments I current see!

     For those within the system (as a FM2 rentista/Inmigrante in my case) WHEN DOES ONE APPLY AT INM FOR RESIDENTE PERMANENTE?

     At one point, the text reads,
     “Expiration Date Issues for Changing from FM2/FM3 to Residente Permanente:
     “If you are applying to change from an existing FM2 or FM3, to go to the new Residente Permanente, and you apply after your current INM permit expires, then you are likely out of luck. Some people who apply even 1 day after their expiration date are being told that they must start the whole process over from scratch,..”

     Perhaps I misunderstand the above, but, following the example of renewing my FM2’s (most recently: Inmigrante), I trotted down to INM Merida today with papers in hand to apply for Residente Permanente. My Refrendo 3 of the Inmigrante expires Sept. 19, 2013. The officer outside told me that, as it is a change in category, not a renewal, I cannot apply until I have had a full four years under my belt, that is, I cannot apply until Sept. 19. I sure hope he knows about what he was talking! I should have, but did not ask, how many days I had from Sept. 19 to submit my application.

     He did review my assembled paperwork. He said that I did not need to present any financial info. (An INM office could ask for some, even though I qualified during the course of my FM2’s, so do not have to requalify, as I am grandfathered, however, next time I show up, I will carry the financial paperwork anyhow. Never know what will change.)

     As I am planning to go back to the USA for a short visit, starting Sept. 25, the officer explained that, once I submit the paperwork for RP on Sept. 19, I should return the next day with the proof of submission, plus my itinerary and a frontal infantile shot, to apply for permission to leave. I will trust to the Mayan gods that the approval will be ready by Sept. 24.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 15, 2013 at 2:09 pm

       Hi R.T.,
       Good Good GOOD observations…

       The Word Press formats (our web-host provider) offer limited utilities to present these mountains of interwoven material…

       The best solution we found (earlier) was to make a section of Summary Titles, that are active buttons, that take the reader down to the appropriate subsection that interests the reader.

       I like your idea of retooling and rewriting all the main articles, to bring them up to date and make information easier to find. Unfortunately, we foreigners still are living with the parallel INM systems of FM2/FM3/Inmigrado and Visitante/Residente Temporal/Permanente until November 8, 2013. My target was to make the change-over to new targeted articles at that point…

       ————————-
       The issue of when to change status from temporary residency to Residente Permanente, while inside Mexico is messy, Messy, MESSY.

       This is one of those items where there is NO single nationwide INM policy. There is very little consistency between INM offices. There is even less consistency of policies within some offices….

       At times, Merida INM has allowed applicants to apply to change from temporary to Permanente as much as 6 months before their temporary permit’s expiration date. Many other people are told to come and apply within 30 days – just like they told me and 6 other friends we know ~ including both foreign spouses of Mexican citizens, and including ordinary foreigners with no Mexican relatives, and including foreign (US) grandparents of Mexican grandchildren.

       The summer heat of Merida is cooking the last of my functioning neurons, so I am unclear of the meaning of what your wrote:

       ~ “I trotted down to INM Merida today with papers in hand to apply for Residente Permanente. My Refrendo 3 of the Inmigrante expires Sept. 19, 2013. The officer outside told me that, as it is a change in category, not a renewal, I cannot apply until I have had a full four years under my belt, that is, I cannot apply until Sept. 19. I sure hope he knows about what he was talking! I should have, but did not ask, how many days I had from Sept. 19 to submit my application. ” ~

       Does this mean that you (R.T.) personally got this information from the Merida INM office, or are you quoting someone who applied at Merida INM office?

       Based on my current “well-done” state of mental cognition: This narrative does not fit recent-past Merida INM policies, but it does fit western Mexican states’, and 1 northern Mexican state’s INM office policies. Is that your point that Merida has flipped to the very restrictive policies used by other INM offices?

       I know your levels of Spanish comprehension are superb, but IS IT POSSIBLE that you got a poorly-informed opinion from an INM intern ? (They have had a number of interns from Social work and other academic programs, working-off their 1 year of public service requirements – and this bunch has been sources of notoriously wrong information at INM for the past 9 months. ???)

       If Merida has changed policy on when RTs apply for status change, then it sure is worth confirming and worth publicly announcing to foreigners applyin in Yucatan.

       Sorry, in advance, for my misunderstanding your point,
       steve

       Reply
262. Robert says:

     August 15, 2013 at 10:57 pm

     Here is my recent experience at Immigracion in San Miguel de Allende: With four years on an FM-3, I went in with an application and letter to renew to a Residente Temporal. I was told that I would have to leave Mexico and apply for that at a Mexican consulate in the U.S. because I had 4 years as an FM-3, or I could simply apply for Residente Permanente status there. So, next day I took in the application to change to Residente Permanente (completed online at the INM website), a letter requesting the change in status and stating my financial and no-lucrativa situation was the same as previously, the bank receipts showing payment of the fees, and the required photos. No bank statements or other proof of income was requested. I surrendered my old FM-3 and was told to return in one week to get fingerprinted. Upon returning in one week, I was informed my papers weren’t ready yet and to return five days later – this Friday, tomorrow. Also, I was told that after fingerprinting, I could pick my permanent card up 2 – 3 weeks later.

     As I plan to leave town next week for some extended travel, I would like to have a friend pick up the card for me in my absence. I understand that this can be accomplished by giving my friend a “carta de poder”. Can you provide a sample of the proper wording in Espanol for such a document or a link to same? In lieu of having the friend get it for me, would there be any problem if I didn’t return to pick it up myself for 2 – 3 months, in effect leaving it to sit in the local INM office for all that time?

     Thanks for all your great information and assistance to everyone.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 16, 2013 at 4:32 pm

       Hi Robert,
       Have you considered that you need to have an exit/reentry permit to be allowed to leave Mexico and to re-enter Mexico while you have NO VISA….?

       Be sure to apply for the permit, that allows you 60 days, to return…. and the friend will have to Fed Ex or DHL your new card to you? https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Issues%20When%20Leaving%20Mexico%20with%20a%20Pending%20INM%20Application%20using%20a%20Temporary%20Exit%20Permission%20Letter

       Sample Letter: (delete the English translations)

       Date

       A Quien Coresponda,
       I am unable to come to the INM office in _____, to pick up my Residente Permanente card.
       No puedo ir al la oficina de INM en _________, para recibir mi tarjeta de Residente Permanente.

       I, full name as on passport, US passporte number ____, NUT # _____, NUE #__________, authorize Mr./Ms. _______, US passport number______, to pick up my Residente Permanente card from the __________ (city) INM office.
       Yo, ___________________, EU passaporte #__________, NUT # _____, NUE #__________, autorizo Sr./Sra. _____________________, EU passaporte #_______, para recibir mi tarjeta de Residente Permanente en la oficina de INM en _______________.

       Bajo protesta de decir la verdad.

       Atentamente,

       APPLICANT SIGNATURE – sign here

       Type/enter APPLICANT NAME

       APPLICANT’S ADDRESS:
       Calle (ENTER ADDRESS) Col. (ENTER NEIGHBORHOOD)
       Mérida, Yucatán, México C.P. 97000
       Tel. domicilio (ENTER HOME PHONE)
       Cel. (ENTER CELL PHONE)

       Reply
       • tropical21 says:

         March 6, 2015 at 1:00 pm

         yucalanda, is it possible to leave your RT card sitting at immigration for a few weeks, 3-6 while one is away? i plan to go to northern mexico and possibly to the US by land to visit some friends and family. Or, can I authorize a family member, who is american and RP, to pick up my card and FEDEX it to me in the states or northern mexico while I am away? thanks for all your help.
       • yucalandia says:

         March 6, 2015 at 6:30 pm

         Hi tropical,
         What INM office are you using? Check with that office.
         We’ve read reports of INM requiring some people to pick up their cards in person, so if you’re using Merida, I’ll check at our Merida INM office on Monday.
         steve
       • Tropical21 says:

         March 6, 2015 at 7:37 pm

         I’m using the Cancun office. Thanks for your hard work.
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         March 6, 2015 at 10:21 pm

         I don’t know how this will appear. It is a comment on the person who wants to leave the country while the papers are being processed. At least in Puebla they tell me if I want to leave the country while the residency is being processed, I must apply for permission to leave. This is one of the options on the INM web page. You may all well know this but thought I’d mention it.
263. justin says:

     September 9, 2013 at 10:48 am

     Has anyone experienced long wait for exchanging visa to resident card? I have a permanent resident visa granted from the consulate. I submitted the on line application, FMT, photo required and receipt of 3815 peso for application of the permanent resident card. I was told to check the status on line, and should be ready to back to the office (in Guadalajara) for finger printing in 10 days. No two weeks has passed, there was still no information when I check on line. I went back to the office and ask them how long it would take. The staff said it usually takes 10 days but now they are very busy, can take up to 45 days for finger printing, and another 30 days to get the card, totally about 90 days. That seems to be very long wait as someone mentioned above said they go approved within a few days or even 24 hours.
     Even though I would not mind waiting a bit, the problem is without the resident card, I cannot open a bank account and many other things cannot do, it is very inconvenient. Someone mentioned it might be able to open an account with FMT, but I don’t have the FMT either as I have submitted to the INM office. Does anyone know any other way to open a bank account?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 9, 2013 at 11:03 am

       Justin,
       The most recent reports out of Guadalajara confirm what you report. Some offices like Manzanillo and Colima are processing things in days… Others like Merida and Guadalajara are taking 45 – 60 days.

       Re bank account: There are 2 major national banks that offer special bank accounts to Americans and Canadians as visitors and tourists: Banamex and I think Bancomer. You may have to take in your 2 comprabantes: 1 from INM, and 1 fromthe bank where you paid for your residency permit.

       Let’s hope this works for you, as each branch bank has the local discretion to say yes or no.
       steve

       Reply
     • Frank says:

       September 9, 2013 at 11:11 am

       Hi Justin,
       It took about 3 weeks for me to get fingerprinted after the other process.Then another 3 or 4 weeks after everything was sent to D.F. for my Permanente card. That was in Cancun.
       As far as opening a bank account,you should have a copy of your fmm. That might be enough. My fiance told me Coppel bank here in Cancun would open a account with me if I wanted with just a Passport..But I use an ATM card from Bank of America with no fees whatsoever as long as I use Santander or Scotia bank ATM´s. Try to be patient,this is Mexico. Good luck. Francisco.

       Reply
       • Dave says:

         September 9, 2013 at 11:18 am

         Wow …..that is surprising !! I too have a Bank of America ATM card and I used it a few times at Bancomer and Banamex to get cash and not only did the two Mexican banks bust me for a expensive fee, so did Bank of America at home.
         If it weren’t for the fact that I have been a B of A customer for over 25 years and have excellent credit established though them, I would drop them in a heartbeat. They are such a bunch of nickle and dime thieves
264. Dave says:

     September 9, 2013 at 11:07 am

     Your post is a bit confusing. You say you applied through the consulate yet you say your visa is going to Guadalajara. Are you in Mexico or outside of Mexico.? If you are inside then you would have at least an FMT
     I have no proof of this and in the past I always thought you had to have at least an FM-3 to open a bank account, but several people have told me that in some areas ( Cancun for example ) banks allow you to open an account with an FMT and you are also allowed to buy and register and Mexican car as well as obtain a Mexican drivers license.
     I would verify this because just like immigration offices, every state and area seem to be a law unto themselves and nobody follows a definite nationwide mandate. Depending on where you are, visa renewals can take from one day to three months …. go figure !

     Reply
     • justin says:

       September 9, 2013 at 11:17 am

       I am inside Mexico now, I was issued an FMT when I entered mexico, but when I exchange my visa to the resident card in Guadalajara, I had to submitted the FMT along with other documents to the INM office for process. That is why I do not have the FMT with me right now.

       Reply
       • Frank says:

         September 9, 2013 at 11:57 am

         Hi Justin,
         You should have made a copy of your FMT. You can open a Bank of America account online if you have an American address.
       • yucalandia says:

         September 9, 2013 at 12:27 pm

         Hi Justin,
         Please ignore Dave’s old terminology, there are NO FMTs. You filled out an FMM (Forma Migratoria Multiple) form, (which we ALL fill out when exiting and entering Mexico), and INM issued you a Visitante permit to be in Mexico for 30 days.

         Depending on how knowledgeable/sophisticated the bank jefes are, they may or may not accept your comprabantes that prove you have an INM residency application in process, and the bank comprabante that proves the INM has approved you and that you have paid for your new residency permit.

         Banamex and Bancomer had special programs last year. Those may still be available for you.
         Best of luck
     • Frank says:

       September 9, 2013 at 12:05 pm

       Hi Dave,
       All Banks are thieves. They are in the business to make money.But,you can minimize the fees with some research and on forums like this one. BOA doesn’t give a great exchange rate like some of the other banks can, but no transaction fees are a good thing. Plus you do get a better exchange rate than you would at a bank or cambio exchange.

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 9, 2013 at 12:21 pm

       Dave,
       The system you describe has not been used since back in 2012.

       There are no FMTs, and yes, new applicants for residency must go to their Mexican Consulate to apply, unless they have Mexican family members or are approved refugees.

       Banamex and Bancomer had special programs for foreigners without residency, that you have to ask for.

       The immigration offices do have discretion on a case by case basis, but there is BROAD uniformity in how INM applies the rules for the past 10 months – as a part of the new Law and the new Lineamientos for the past year.

       You did get one part right: there is great variability between INM offices in processing times for residency permits.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
265. Holly says:

     September 9, 2013 at 11:16 am

     Banamex in PV is requiring my current Residente Permanente and a utility bill no more than a month old despite having a Banamex in the US.

     Reply
266. Gary says:

     September 9, 2013 at 11:44 am

     Bank of America debit cards are free of charges at Santander Banks only.

     Reply
     • Frank says:

       September 9, 2013 at 11:54 am

       Hi Gary,
       I´’ve used BOA atm card at Scotia also many times without a fee.

       Reply
267. Gary says:

     September 9, 2013 at 11:56 am

     Glad to know that. I saw that Scotia was listed on the BOA website, but had never tried using the card at one of their banks.

     Reply
268. justin says:

     September 9, 2013 at 12:34 pm

     Hi Steve

     Thanks for the information. I have been to both Banamex and Banomer, both said I need the resident card to open a bank account, should I try more branches?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 9, 2013 at 4:29 pm

       Hmmmm….

       That does not sound good. These 2 banks made presentations 2 years ago for our Men’s club, and they may have discontinued them in the meantime. I will check with out local branches and ask if they still offer them.
       steve

       Reply
       • justin says:

         September 9, 2013 at 5:28 pm

         The banks said It is not because they don’t want to open an account for me. It is because when opening an account, they need the resident card information to fill into the compute system, if that leaves blank, the account cannot be open from the computer system and they cannot override the computer
269. Kaye says:

     September 12, 2013 at 2:48 pm

     Went to the Progreso office to see if I could use my fideicomiso/property ownership to help reduce my income qualification for Residente Permanente and was told that they are NOT allowing property ownership to reduce financial requirements there. Just FYI. If anyone else has been successful doing this there recently, please let me know. I would just rather get the permanente now, if possible. But, unless someone has actually succeeded in getting this, guess I will just do the other 3 years. Seems owning a home and paying taxes should be worth something. 😦

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 12, 2013 at 7:37 pm

       Hi Kaye,
       Do you have other past years on an FM2 or FM3 that aggregate (count) together to equal 4 continuous unbroken (no penalty) years of prior Mexican residency? The property ownership issue is up to the INM office to accept or not, as a credit towards meeting the personal fiscal solvency requirement.
       steve

       Reply
270. Dave says:

     September 12, 2013 at 6:56 pm

     with a fedeicomisio, doesn’t the bank actually own the property and lease it back to you.
     Maybe that’s why Progreso migracion doesn’t consider your situation to be actual property ownership.
     If that’s the case why not try forming a Mexican corporation and dump the fedeicomisio.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 12, 2013 at 7:40 pm

       Hi Dave,
       A Fideicomiso is a trust. The trust owns the property. The bank does not own the trust, Kaye owns the trust.** The bank is only the administrator – agent that sets up and administers the trust.
       steve

       **This is why the US IRS considered Fideicomisos as foreign trusts, and that American owners of a Fideicomiso must report to them, prior to July, 2013. Since July 2013, the IRS decided that Fideicomiso real estate trusts that do not earn income do not have to be reported by their American owners.

       Reply
271. Kaye says:

     September 12, 2013 at 9:42 pm

     Only one year with an FM3…would have had two years in, but…due to the change and then change back thing they did regarding penalties for renewing late issue back when the changes first started happening. So, I will be doing the 3 year temporal now, and hopefully they will not change the law again so that I should be able to complete my 3 years and then move on into permanente without proof of income. I was just hoping to be done with renewals and the more hefty fee for 3 year temporal. 🙂

     Reply
272. Christine says:

     September 13, 2013 at 11:23 am

     Hi, I’m confused (maybe everyone who comes to your site comes because they are confused?). I’m on my way through the process for an RT…should be done soon. Then I got word that my truck (1994) can be nationalized for $2400 US…I suspect this is as a classic car. This led me to the question: if I nationalize my truck right after I get my one year RT, should I go for a Permenente at renewal time rather than the other 3 years on the RT. I was told that if I did that I would need to show $3000/monthly income from retirement sources. So, does this mean that after I get through with the 4 years of RT I have no where to go but back to ??? Tourist…and start over for another 4 on RT if I can’t qualify with the $3000 then? I was under the impression that once you got the RT, you could move on to the Permanente…but, maybe not? Or if you serve the full 4 years of RT, are you exempt from showing the Permenente income requirement at that time?

     Thanks,
     Christine
     Christine

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 13, 2013 at 1:54 pm

       Hi Christine,
       Yes, you can permanently import any NAFTA manufactured non-dually pickup truck that is more than 5 years old. You can read the rules about car imports at: Importing & Driving a Car in Mexico https://yucalandia.com/driving-in-mexico-issues-fun/importing-driving-a-car-in-mexico/

       Classic vehicles must be over 29 years old.

       Re your financial qualifications, read these sections of the article above: Proof of Financial Independence for Residency Applicants https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Proof%20of%20Financial%20Independence%20for%20Residency%20Applicants

       In theory, INM offices can approve you for Residente Permanente after completing 4 years of Temporary Residency, without any financial requirements. Some INM offices do not require fiscal statements. Unfortunately, many INM offices exercise their local discretion/latitude to ask to see proof of personal fiscal solvency. None of us can say what your INM office will be doing in several years.

       Currently, at the end of 4 years of Residente Temporal, you can either ~ go on to Permanent, ~ leave the country and come back as a 6 month Visitante , ~ leave the country and reapply for another Residente Temporal at a Mexican Consulate, ~ OR stay in Mexico allowing your current Residente Temporal to expire and pay a modest fine/penalty and apply for a new Residente Temporal from inside Mexico.

       Hope that helps clear things up,
       steve

       Reply
273. Christine says:

     September 13, 2013 at 2:34 pm

     Thanks Steve. Guess I should nationalize the truck once I’m on the RT visa, then just wait and see what happens at the end of the 4 year period. They either will give me a Permanente with my income as it is, or not…..nothing to do about it.
     Christine

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 13, 2013 at 4:09 pm

       Hi Christine,
       Stay positive. Be happy.

       ~ Your office may not require financials for you.
       ~ Your office may be using a point system by then – where owning property may cut your $$ requirements in half, or may take other abilities of yours into account.
       ~ or … ?
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
274. justin says:

     September 18, 2013 at 3:57 pm

     After more then 3 weeks I submitted my application for exchanging the permanent residency visa to the resident card with no news, I went back to the INM office today and I find out the reason. The INM officer told me that the reason of the delay of my application is that the immigration officer at the airport put the incorrect information in my FMM when I entered Mexico from the airport.. Now they have sent my FMM back to the airport and waiting for the correction and they have no control how long it will take. This indeed make my life difficult. I cannot open a bank account. cannot do things I have planed to do and cannot make plan what should I do in the near future except just keep waiting with no time limited. The most I afraid of is that as far as I know the immigration officer in the airport has the authority for immigration matter at the entry point and by law what they wrote in the FMM cannot be simply overridden even there might be a mistake. This may in fact render my whole application invalid?
     Has anybody have similar experience to my case?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 18, 2013 at 4:13 pm

       Hi justin,
       Unfortunately, this does occasionally happen. Did you see our article on the importance of both passengers and INM agents filling out the FMMs correctly? https://yucalandia.com/2013/08/18/temporary-and-permanent-residents-entering-mexico-as-tourists-dont/

       Lic. McMullen describes some of the problems that can arise if we enter Mexico as a visitante/tourist, and if INM fills out their part incorrectly. Do you know how they filled out your FMM? Were you listed as a visitante – creating 2 separate visas for you?

       Unfortunately, Lawyer McMullen has seen this, and warns us to check our FMMs carefully, to make sure that both our parts and the INM parts are filled out appropriately.

       Without further details of the specific nature of the problem, there’s not much any of us can tell you. Short of hiring an attorney to help unravel things, we have no other advice other than to wait.
       steve

       Reply
       • justin says:

         September 18, 2013 at 4:57 pm

         Hi Steve

         Thanks Steve. I had no idea about this thing when entered Mexico and I wish I knew this back then. The iNM officer in Guadalajara told me that in my FMM, one part is written correctly the 30 days part (as I can still remember the word “30 days” is written in the FMM form. and the immigration officer at the airport clearly told me to get register in the local INM office within 30 days) But she also told me the the other part of FMM is written incorrectly, she mentioned about something like vistante, which the airport immigration officer at the airport ticked wrongly.

         When I was in the airport immigration counter, I showed the permanent visa page and tell the officer I want to live and stay in mexico permanently. How you can expect a foreigner to know how to do the job of a Mexican immigration officer (I mean to know whether he/she fills the FMM correctly)
275. justin says:

     September 18, 2013 at 5:28 pm

     Also I remembered, when I filled the FMM form. it asked you to tick the purpose of the trip, such as tourist, business, student, others. I remembered I ticked others, I did not tick tourist

     Reply
     • markemmer says:

       September 18, 2013 at 6:09 pm

       I see our posts crossed. It’s good that you ticked “other” not “tourist”. Since it sounds like you don’t have a copy and are relying on memory, if it would help to see an actual FMM, I have one that’s used for a different purpose (exiting Mexico) at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12631920/Visas/Exit%20FMM%202013-July-12.pdf

       I see they no longer have a place to write the number of days as numerals. They just check a box that’s either in the 180 day or 30 day section. Yours should have been CANJE.

       I really do wish you luck getting this resolved, particularly since the error is through no fault of yours.

       — Mark E.

       Reply
276. markemmer says:

     September 18, 2013 at 5:41 pm

     Hi Justin,
     I completely sympathize with your comment about expecting foreigners to do the job of a Mexican [fill-in-the-blank — aduana, immigration, etc.] officer. In my few years here, it’s taught me to research things thoroughly before submitting an application, so I know how it should be processed. It shouldn’t be necessary, but like a lot of things in Mexico, it just is. Overwork, boredom, poor training, whatever the reason, things happen differently at different offices, or sometimes at different times in the same office. It doesn’t help when one is moving to a new country and overwhelmed by everything that is taking place.

     We drove into Mexico in 2011 with Residente Temporal visas in our passports. This wasn’t widely discussed on the net then, so we had no clue what procedure the immigration official should follow. We knew we had 30 days to get to INM, but naively accepted the FMM’s we were handed marked “tourist” and “180 days.” I was even happy that it allowed me to get a 180-day TIP for my car.

     The problem was at INM Morelia, where they were VERY unhappy to see the FMM marked tourist instead of “Visa for exchange for FM3” (this was an older version of the form — now it just says “CANJE” — exchange). They were going to make us go back to the border and re-enter the country and get the correct version of the FMM. Fortunately, one brave young lady behind the counter put an end to the nonsense by taking the card, crossing out “tourist” and ticking the correct box. On the back, she crossed out “180” and wrote “30”. And that was that, and the application for our residency cards proceeded normally.

     Maybe with the increased computerization since then bold actions like that aren’t possible. For your sake I hope sanity prevails and they can correct your problem.

     For others, it’s good to have all of Steve’s work assembling this information on Yucalandia so others can learn and be prepared.

     — Mark E.

     Reply
     • justin says:

       September 18, 2013 at 8:37 pm

       Hi Mark

       Thanks for the information. From what you talk above and the INM officer in Guadalajara told me today, it is most likely the immigration officer in the airport wrongly marked “tourist” instead of “Canje” even though she correctly put 30 days next. Even the INM officer in Guadalajra who accepted my application at the time I submitted it did not spot that error, how is possible I could find it out at the time when I entered Mexico?
       So I Just here to remind all the readers, when you holding either a permanent or temporary visa entering mexico, make sure at the airport counter, you FMM ls marked “Canje” and 30 days to avoid all the troubles.

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 19, 2013 at 7:07 am

       Hi Mark,
       What a dandy thing she did. Good points on learning about how things should work here before starting the process.
       steve

       Reply
277. markemmer says:

     September 18, 2013 at 9:04 pm

     I’m puzzled too. The way I read the form, there aren’t two separate operations — marking tourist and then entering some number of days. If you look at the FMM example I posted, under USO OFICIAL, the left block says ESTANCIA MAXIMA HASTA 180 DIAS and there’s a checkbox for Visitante Actividad NO Remunerada. To the right is another block labeled ESTANCIA MAXIMA 30 DIAS and a checkbox for CANJE. They can check one or the other — it’s one operation, so there can’t be a number-of-days/type-of-FMM mismatch.
     But my posted PDF is only one-half of the form, right? I only scanned the half they gave me. Maybe in your case the half they kept had a different box checked?
     — Mark E>

     Reply
     • justin says:

       September 18, 2013 at 9:18 pm

       Hi Mark
       The one you post is for the entry part, and the one I submitted for exchange is the departure part. On the departure part of the FMM, at the bottom there is a square with the word “dias” inside, I clearly remember the number “30” is hand written by the airport officer just next to dias. And most likely instead of marking the “CANJE” column, she marked the other column.

       Reply
278. markemmer says:

     September 18, 2013 at 10:54 pm

     My apologies then for possibly adding to the confusion. I thought all FMMs were the same. The one I posted from mid-July did seem to be a brand new version, because the border official said it was a new form and he had to retreat to the back room multiple times to ask how to fill it out. Maybe they’re in the process of changing over and the airlines hadn’t gotten the new ones yet? In any event, it doesn’t help you since it’s not the version you used.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 19, 2013 at 7:17 am

       Hi mark,
       You suspected correctly, there are at least 2 versions of the FMM out in usage right now. bleah
       steve

       Reply
279. justin says:

     September 18, 2013 at 11:08 pm

     My version is exactly the same version as yours. The FMM form has two part, the top half (entry part) and the bottom half (departure part), the one you post is the top half. The top half of my FMM is exactly the same as the one in your post, and was kept by the INM officer at the airport immigration counter when I arrived, the bottom half was given to me for exchanging the resident card.

     Reply
280. Nigel says:

     September 23, 2013 at 10:34 am

     Hello, I know it is necessary to go to a consulate outside of Mexico to apply for the residente temporal. Is it possible to go go to a country other than your home country? In other words how about the consulate in Belize, as it is the nearest?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 23, 2013 at 11:03 am

       Hi Nigel,
       In theory, no, partly because the Consulate is supposed to (or can?) use criminal background records checks from your home country (a report from the local Sherrif – that you supply if they ask for it).

       In reality, there is one seemingly reliable internet report of an American going to the Mexican Consulate in Belize, and successfully starting their Residency Temporal process there. ???
       steve

       Reply
281. Audrey says:

     October 1, 2013 at 2:48 pm

     I have been married for 13 yrs and then divorced now for 5 yrs in Cancun with a Mexican in Registro Civil. I have a Carta de Resedencia saying that I have been a resident since 1992 and now work on cruise ships. This means that I work out of Mexico for 6 mos. and I am off for 2-3 mos and go back to my home in Cancun. I gave up my FM3 when I started to work on cruise ships in 2008. I enter Mexico now on a tourist visa but need to get my Tarjeta de Resedencia. Am I eligible for Resedencia Permanente? Where do I start my process from outside or inside Mexico?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 1, 2013 at 3:02 pm

       Hi Audrey,
       What is a Carta de Resedencia ? This has not been listed in any of the immigration laws since 2006.

       Does the INM officially recognize a Carta de Resedencia ?

       You say you have a tourist visa, but tourist visas have not existed since Nov. 2012. You probably have a Visitante visa. With no valid INM residency visa, the May 2011 INM law clearly says that visitors/tourists in Mexico on Visitante visas cannot change to any other visa categories from inside Mexico. You have to go to a Mexican consulate to apply. Do any of your ports of call have a Mexican Consulate?

       You ask if you qualify for Residente Permanente. Have you read the requirements for Residente Permanente?
       They are listed above. If you meet the requirements, then you can become a Residente Permanente.

       Reply
282. Maggie says:

     October 23, 2013 at 1:47 pm

     Hi there,
     I have a question re Residente Permanente please.
     My husband & I are here in Mexico almost 2 years & in that time we have had a FM2 (the first year) and then a Residente Temporale which is due to expire in the end of November.
     In the past year we have completed the adoption of our Mexican daughter.
     When we renew our visa’s we want to apply for Residente Permanente & as we are now related to our Mexican daughter through her adoption we understand we can do so.
     My question is…do we still have to meet the financial requirements for Residente Permanente?? Or is our applications solely on the basis of our relationship with our daughter?
     ie is the application based on one or the other…or both combined??
     Thank you for your help.
     Maggie

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 24, 2013 at 10:22 am

       Hi Maggie,
       Congratulations on the adoption of your daughter. Yes, under the vinculo familiar category, you qualify for Permanent Residency. Friends here in Merida with a Mexican grandchild were approved for PR 4 months ago, with no financial qualifications required. You can check if you local INM office has added their own special requirements/stipulations.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
283. Frank says:

     October 24, 2013 at 12:26 pm

     Hi Steve, I wonder if you can answer this question. I have Permanent Residency here in Mexico and last month married my Mexican sweetheart. We live in Cancun and my wife has 2 daughters from a previous marriage. She has worked at the same job for over a year. My question: How hard would it be for us to visit the U.S. and for her to meet my family? What kind of a visa do I file for her? Thanks in advance for your reply.Frank

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 24, 2013 at 2:37 pm

       Hi Frank,
       Since she is a Mexican citizen residing in Mexico, click here for more information from the Tijuana consulate. http://tijuana.usconsulate.gov/tijuana/tourist_business/how-to-applya.html

       My wife has a 10 year tourist visa. Short term tourist visas have been generally easy to qualify for for my mother-in-law, sisters, and their Mexicana friends, ~ unless your wife’s name matches some other Mexicana who has had legal problems. Also check out: http://mexico.usembassy.gov/visas/non-immigrant-visas.html and http://mexico.usembassy.gov/visas/non-immigrant-visas/how-to-apply.html

       “Most visa applicants over the age of 7 will be interviewed in person by a U.S. Consular Officer. Although you may apply at any U.S. consular office abroad, it may be more difficult to qualify for a visa outside your country of residence. Thus, applicants for visas should generally apply at the American Embassy or Consulate with jurisdiction over their place of permanent residence. For example, those applying for visitor visas at a U.S. Consulate should be Mexican citizens or hold legal Mexican residency and be able to demonstrate strong economic, familial, and/or social ties to Mexico.”

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • Maggie says:

         October 24, 2013 at 2:45 pm

         Thanks Steve, that is very helpful.
         Maggie
284. Daniel says:

     November 27, 2013 at 10:18 am

     i have lived in Merida for over 4 years and had an FM3 since early 2010(just changed recently to a Visa Temporal) I recently married a Mexicana and in March come up again for Visa renewal. My former Immigration advisor was late in filing the change of marital status and I was fined for that. I now need to change my address which I think I have done online. Does INM contact me to come in with the paperwork or do I just go in oin my own with it? Also, when renewing in March do I switch to the Visa Permenante? As I understand the articles and questions /answers above I would have slightly more than 1 year of married life under the Visa Temperal and would automtaically be given the Visa Permenante for what, 1 year before applying to become naturalized? Or is it 2 more years after the Visa Permenanate? Very confusing?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 27, 2013 at 5:36 pm

       Hi Daniel,
       You wrote:
       “I now need to change my address which I think I have done online. Does INM contact me to come in with the paperwork or do I just go in oin my own with it? ” You take your pieza number from the on-line application, write a letter to INM describing your address change, and go file the change in address at the INM office.

       Residente Permanente is granted to spouses of Mexican citizens, after 2 years of (Mexican-registered) marriage. You can also qualify for naturalized citizenship after 2 years of living here with a registered marriage to a Mexican citizen as EITHER Residente Temporal or Residente Pemanenete.
       steve

       Reply
       • Daniel says:

         December 18, 2013 at 10:29 am

         Thanks Steve. In Merida the local INM office provides you with the letter – all you do is complete and sign it and return along with the printed copy of the on-line form. A follow-up question to the Residente Permanente Visa. I thought I had read somewhere that INM automatically converted the old FM3/Resident Temporal Visa to the new Permanente Visa if you had the older visas for a total of 4 years. If that is the case then I qualify early this spring for the Permanante Visa and would thus have only 2 years remaining as of this coming spring (because of my marriage to a Mexican citizen) before I could apply for naturalization. Have I got this riht or am I missing something?
       • yucalandia says:

         December 18, 2013 at 12:10 pm

         Hi Daniel,
         All correct, steve
285. Frank says:

     November 27, 2013 at 5:47 pm

     Hi Daniel,I married a Mexicana in September and in Cancun you have 90 days to change your estado civil (Marital status) and 90 days to go for your cambio domocilio .(Change of address)
     You have to go yourself to INM to change.You should have a typed letter requesting the change and your forma básico from online.Also bring copies of your residence card and passport.I’m almost sure you have to be married 2 years to switch from temporary to permanent. Good luck.

     Reply
     • tropical21 says:

       March 5, 2015 at 12:13 am

       hi frank, i am applying for temporary residency via vinculo familiar. my wife is mexican citizen. I wanted to know your experience at the cancun INM office. I went about a week and a half ago and it was interesting to say the least. it seemed very busy and unorderly, compared to what I have read on some other cities. how do you like cancun overall? i have family here who are RP’s and they like it, but my wife and I are deciding between Cancun, Baja/Sonora, and guadalajara. How long did you wait after fingerprinting to get your card? Is it possible to have a family member pick up my card with a carta de poder?

       Reply
286. sherri siegel says:

     December 15, 2013 at 12:30 pm

     with lots of good advice from you I have been very successful applying for my first time Residente Temporal. Now I’m wondering about the required time line for renewing my 1 yr. visa. Will it begin on the day I submitted my app. in Mex. or the date on my card (when I get it). How long do I have to be in country before it expires to renew?
     Thanks,
     Sherri

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 15, 2013 at 3:21 pm

       Hi Sherri,
       I believe that the date, is the date that INM approves your application to proceed. For my residency card, the date is about 2 weeks after I got my NUT, which is also before the date that I paid for the card, and before when I submitted pictures & fingerprints.

       You can apply to renew your RT card 30 days before it expires. You can have your legal representative start the process, but you must return to the INM office for fingerprinting and signing the forms.
       steve

       Reply
       • sherri siegel says:

         December 16, 2013 at 2:57 pm

         Thanks for the info. One follow up question: do you have to be in the country a full 30 days before your visa expires to begin the renewal process or is it 30 days – 1 day before it expires.
         You have been so helpful with your quick responses.
         Thanks,
         Sherri
       • yucalandia says:

         December 16, 2013 at 4:04 pm

         Hi sherri,
         You can apply to renew as late as the expiration date. If the expiration date occurs on a weekend or holiday, then you apply on the last business day before the expiration date. Since INM offices are reported to close this year for the holidays between Dec 20 2013 – Jan 2 2014, don’t try to start the process during the holidays, or your permit will expire.
         steve
287. Nancy Thorpe says:

     January 12, 2014 at 9:16 pm

     Hi Steve,
     In November, my husband applied for his two-yr. Residente Temporal Visa. It was not processed prior to our departing Mexico and were told he could request a permit for exit and reentering Mexico which he also did. The temporary permit is for only 60 days and we are now unable to return to Mexico (due to illness) until after the temporary permit expires. Your website suggested having a friend in Mexico pick up the now processed Residente Temporal Visa and sending it to us in the U.S. (As entering on a Tourist Permit would negate his Mx. Visa.) However, when we asked a Visa “expeditor” we have used in the past for her assistance in picking it up, she indicated that the temporary permit had to be stamped by INM prior to its expiration date and then returned within 10 days to the IMN office prior to getting the Residente Temporal Visa issued. In other words, one could not have two permits at the same time. Is this indeed the case? If so, any other suggestions? Hate to lose the Residente Temporal Visa since it is needed for an extension on our TIP for our U.S. plated vehicle.
     Thanks,
     Nancy

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 13, 2014 at 7:20 am

       Hi Nancy,
       Clearly, you NEVER re-enter on a Tourist visa when you have a Residente Temporal. I am not familiar with a rule about some 10 day rule for returning the temporary letter.

       Did you get fingerprinted, sign the forms (creating the signature that goes onto the new card), and turn in fotos for this year’s renewal?

       I know people have successfully had representatives pick up their permit and send it to the, in the USA – without them returning. Let me check on the details and get back to you. When does the 60 day period expire?
       steve

       Reply
       • Nancy Thorpe says:

         January 13, 2014 at 9:51 am

         Hi Steve,

         Yes, this year’s renewal included the photos, fngerprints, signatures and payment. And we have received via e-mail the message that the permit was ready for pickup at the Nueva Vallarta INM office.

         The 60 day period expires on Jan. 27. Our facilitator is a former INM employee who seems to know the rules and regulations. Thanks for any further light you might shed on this situation.

         Nancy
       • yucalandia says:

         January 15, 2014 at 10:37 am

         Hi Nancy,
         I just double checked with our INM office here in Merida, and they say you have just 2 options now:
         ~ Return to Mexico before the Jan 27 expiration date and finish your Res. Permanente process by getting the cards.
         ~ Stay in the USA past the Jan. 27 expiration date, lose your current cards & $$, and then start over. *sigh*

         Wish I had better news for you,
         steve
     • yucalandia says:

       January 13, 2014 at 4:37 pm

       Isabel Replies:
       I was required in PV to provide the 60 day authorization to leave and return. I failed to get the outgoing signature so had to pay extra to get it signed for the departure and return after my return. Hope that helps.
       Isabel
       http://www.RanchoSolyMar.com

       Reply
288. thaer nasief says:

     January 23, 2014 at 1:35 am

     I lova mexico and I want live in mexico

     Reply
289. Jeff F says:

     January 29, 2014 at 10:17 am

     Fantastic website, thank you. I am a US citizen recently married to a Mexican citizen and planning on living in Mexico (already here in country on a tourist visa). I will be applying this week for the Visa Residente Temporal, and I had one question – If I will be switching from a Residente Temporal to a Residente Permanente after the required two years, should I pay for a 2-year Temporal visa or a 3-year Temporal visa? I am afraid that if I wait the full two years, my Temporal will expire and then I will have issues with getting the Permanente (i.e., how does the overlap work – can I apply for the change in visa type a few days before the 2 years are up? Or should I pay for 3 years so there is overlap?)

     Thank you in advance

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 29, 2014 at 1:28 pm

       Hi Jeff,
       Congrats on the wedding. Did you have it here? Officially approved by a Mexican Registro Civil office?

       If you have all the requirements met, then get 2 years on a Temporal, and then when 30 days are left before that expiration date, apply for the Residente Permanente.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • Jeff F says:

         January 29, 2014 at 9:47 pm

         Thanks Steve, very helpful. Yes we had the official civil wedding as well, judge and all, so I think everything is in order.

         Cheers
290. David says:

     January 29, 2014 at 3:12 pm

     On a slightly different aspect of the immigration rules/procedures.
     Due to our particular lifestyle and situation, we plan on surrendering our FM-3 ( Residente Temporal ) status and from here on out just buying 6 months at a time visitors visas.
     My question is, to complete the process of surrendering you Residente Temporal status , what is actually required ?
     Is it just a matter of turning in our cards at the border as we leave the country ( with time still left on the card so we are not technically late ) or alternately , if we just don’t renew our Residente Temporal status when the cards expire, are we just then automatically removed from the system and can just physically throw the cards away, OR do we have to write some kind of letter or fill in a form to renounce our Residente Temporal status …. sort of like a denuncia /
     We don’t want to try to re-enter the country 6 months later and find we cant buy visitors permits because we are still in the system as Residente Temporal.
     Has anyone done something similar so we knopw what to do ?
     Thanks

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 29, 2014 at 5:50 pm

       Hi David,
       You can simply allow the Residente Temporal to expire.

       Just be sure that you do NOT try to enter Mexico using a visitor visa while your Residente Temporal is still valid. If you want to enter Mexico on a visitor visa, before the Residente Temporal card has expired, then you must first surrender the Residente Temporal (to avoid having 2 visas simultaneously).
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
291. David says:

     January 30, 2014 at 12:16 am

     thanks for the info ….. so by extrapolation, when we exit Mexico, we should return the TIP for the car ( that was tied chronologically to the FM-3 ) and ask to have the deposit refunded.
     Then the next time we enter Mexico on a visitors permit we would again make a new deposit for the car …… claim it back after six months when we leave again and just keep doing this each six months ?

     Reply
292. David says:

     February 2, 2014 at 11:22 am

     Nobody answered the question about returning the TIP ????
     Anyway, here’s another question on a similar vein.
     If you enter Mexico on a 180 day visitors permit and you make the required deposit for a TIP , then you decide that during that 180 days you want to visit Belize with your car for say a month.
     Is your visitors permit good for multiple entries during the 180 days ….. AND ……. is your TIP also good for multiple entries ? ….. OR would you have to surrender the TIP and claim a refund of your deposit and buy another TIP ( deposit ) when you re-entered Mexico from Belize to finish up your 180 day visitors permit. ?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 2, 2014 at 12:24 pm

       Hi David,
       The rules for visitors permits say you must turn in the permit when you leave Mexico. As described in a reply above, the INM authorities have been fining people who drive out of Mexico without surrendering their visitors permit. If you had a Residente Temporal, you could get a multiple exit and re-entry letter for your TIP permit on your car. As a visitor, you must surrender the TIP when you surrender your visitor’s permit. You then get fresh visitor’s permits and TIP when you re-enter.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
293. Betty says:

     February 5, 2014 at 7:34 am

     We just started the process to change from temporal to permanente….We were horrified this week to find there are only 2 certified translators available to translate financial statements and one wanted $5500 pesos for 12 pages…(12months) even though every page was the same except the numbers . No one is going to want to pay this on top of the other fees…even the $200 per page I was initially told seemed high…plus apparently they are still wanting retirement letters reflecting that the applicant has a pension which is not the case with self employed persons. Your statements from your SEP ARE your retirement. Clearly, they are not following the law as we have read it here! Any suggestions??

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 5, 2014 at 7:51 am

       Hi Betty,
       Where are you located? The $200 pesos a page is ridiculously high, especially for repeated pages.
       steve

       Reply
       • Betty says:

         February 5, 2014 at 1:15 pm

         Santa Ana….and this person wanted almost $500 per page because he said the typeface was small but basically just bank jiberish that’s included in the body of the page…Any ideas? And why do we need to “prove” that we are retired if we have the 12 months of funds? Very frustrated!
294. Betty says:

     February 6, 2014 at 4:01 pm

     We are in Merida…so does anyone here know why they want a retirement letter in addition to the 12months of bank statements when the law does not list that as a requirement?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 6, 2014 at 5:17 pm

       Hi Betty,
       There are several factors at work here:
       1. Local INM offices are given broad discretion and wide latitude in how they apply the law and the Nov 2012 Lineamientos. (so they have the legal right to do this)
       and
       2. The Nov 2012 Lineamientos section on INMs requisitos for proving personal fiscal independence (so you don’t become a fiscal burden on the Mexican govt. in the future), are written to describe the requirements for people who are either pensionados (pensioners) o jubilados (retirees).

       e.g. You say the law does not require it, but the section of the law you are trying to use to qualify, say that the requirements you want to meet are for pensioners or retirees:
       ” Artículo 44. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, de residente temporal a residente permanente:
       …
       Requisitos:
       …
       5. En el caso de pensionados o jubilados deberán presentar:

       a) Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinticinco mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos doce meses, o …”

       So, I suspect that you simply misunderstood the law – or that someone gave you partial advice. As written above, some Consulates and some INM offices accept normal monthly income deposits while others stipulate only pension income.

       In the past, Merida INM had accepted any source of monthly income. Your news says that they have changed their policies to more closely follow the law.
       bummer,
       steve

       Reply
295. Betty says:

     February 6, 2014 at 5:24 pm

     Sorry, my understanding was if an applicant had savings of at least $130,000 US in their account consistently during the past year that replaced the monthly income requirement. We chose not to take social security early so have uneven monthly withdrawals while maintaining the required balances in other savings……so this is incorrect?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 7, 2014 at 7:46 am

       Hi Betty,
       If you have sufficient savings balance for 12 months ($1,619,000 pesos), for one person, then you qualify.

       The requirement is in pesos – so, the amount of USD needed fluctuates with the exchange rate.
       steve

       Reply
296. Betty says:

     February 6, 2014 at 5:33 pm

     Just to clarify…we are retired but simply not receiving a regular pension because we were self employed…so that seem do be the issue! Even a letter saying we qualify for social security seems unsatisfactory as well as the bank statements with over required dollars

     Reply
     • scott says:

       March 6, 2014 at 3:52 pm

       I’m having the same problem with the Consulate in Calexico Ca. Last November I brought them 12 mos. worth of money market statements with over $125,000.00. They refused to accept them. Last week I brought them 12 mos. of my checking account statements showing $4 to 5,000.00/ mo. of deposits. They wouldn’t accept them either and are now saying that I should show them investments of $125,00.00/ year. HELLO!!! They don’t like the fact that I’m not on SS or a pension and that I work for myself. I own a house in San Felipe Baja Ca. and feel that I need a permanent resident card in case I have any legal problems and have to go to court. If someone can prove to me that a 180 day tourist card provides the same level of legitimacy as a permanent resident card, I would just do that and stop wasting my time at the Consulate…

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         March 6, 2014 at 7:12 pm

         Hi Scott,
         Since the Residente Permanente statute describes the income requirement for “retirees” – some Mexican Consulates ONLY accept retirement savings and retirement income. You need to make them understand that your $125,000 average savings balance is for retirement. Show them a copy of Lineamientos Article 44 ‘s Requisitos.

         Fortunately, some Mexican Consulates (like Phoenix, Chicago, Laredo, Austin TX et al) accept savings and income statements – without trying to prove that they are “retirement” values. Unfortunately, other Mexican Consulates look at younger applicants (clearly not near retirement age), and they get picky.
         ???

         I don’t know the state laws or regs of Baja CA, so I can’t say what differences would occur if you faced some legal challenge. Having said that, we do not know of any finite legal disadvantages from having a visitors visa you would face if there was some legal problem – except for the possibility that the Notaria at the time of selling the property might give you a Homeowners Exemption to Capital Gains taxes on the net gains from selling the home. You have to prove that the Mexican home is your primary residence for 5 continuous years and is also your principal place of fiscal activity for the previous 5 continuous years…. Which means there may not be much gained by getting Permanent Residency?
         steve
297. Pamela Moore de Gamboa says:

     February 6, 2014 at 10:50 pm

     I have a question for Steve: I’m a US Citizen married to a Mexican Citizen in AZ in 2005. He is now also a US citizen. We never got our US marriage officially approved by the Registro Civil. We recently retired and moved back to his home town in Mexico (Obregon). My 6-month FMM expired in January. We haven’t been back to the US since November 2013 and plan to make one more trip probably in March to get the rest of our stuff from storage. I was planning to get a new 6-month FMM when we come back from that upcoming trip. Then we plan to start the process to get me permission to work. From your site, I understand we must get remarried in Mexico, and then apply for my Residente Temporal – or can I apply for my Residente Permanente right away? Will my social security retirement income be a problem? I get only $1,420 per month, and he is unemployed with no pension. Then it looks like we have to wait for 2 years and then apply either for my Residente Permanente or for naturalization to Mexican citizenship. Could you clear this up for me? I greatly appreciate your expertise.

     Sincerely,
     Pamela Moore de Gamboa

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 7, 2014 at 7:41 am

       Hi Pamela,
       You can go to your Registro Civil and apply to have them approve your US marriage. If they will not approve the US marriage, then you can get married here. Get some sort of comprabante from the Registro Civil that shows they are considering your application, and your INM office MIGHT allow you to apply for Residente Temporal – or they may tell you to leave Mexico immediately (or within 20 days)? (We have seen both happen.) As the spouse of a Mexican, you would not have to use financials to qualify for Residente Temporal.

       If they send you back to the USA, then you would take your US wedding license and go apply for Residente Temporal at your Mexican Consulate as the spouse of a Mexican.
       Best of luck,
       steve

       Reply
298. Sarah says:

     February 8, 2014 at 10:49 pm

     HI I am going to Mexico with a temporary visa for an inversionsita. I have a Mexican company and some land in Mexico. Just so I can get myself organised , what will be the documents I will need to provide to the INM office before I have been in the country for 30 days?
     Thanks, Sarah

     Reply
299. David says:

     February 9, 2014 at 8:07 pm

     Hi Steve …. thanks for the info regarding movement into Belize on an FMM
     Can we pursue the question a little further ?
     In order to avoid the hassle of surrendering both your FMM and your TIP ( and applying for a refund of the TIP deposit ) and then re-applying for both all over again when you re-enter Mexico. is there a way around this ?

     For example : Is there such a thing as an ” In Transit FMM ” good for say 30 days,( for a fee ) that when purchased at a northern border, does NOT require that you pay the +/- $400 deposit for your car, as long as both you and the vehicle cross over into Belize or Guatemala within the 30 day validity of the In Transit FMM ?

     Then to continue with that logic, …. after you have spent some time in Belize, could you then re-enter Mexico on a regular 180 day FMM and buy a matching TIP ( and now pay the deposit )?

     In order to claim back your TIP deposit are you required to leave the country at the same border through which you entered ?
     If not, then you could in theory buy your TIP ( and get your FMM ) at the Belize/Mexico border and surrender both within 180 days at the northern US/Mexico border and still get your TIP deposit back.

     Yes … it’s a little convoluted but it beats having to buy two TIPS and play the make and reclaim the TIP deposit / refund game twice.
     Paying for the FMM twice ( if required ) is not a big deal, but doing the deposit thing twice seems somewhat silly and unnecessary.
     Appreciate your thoughts.

     Reply
300. David says:

     February 13, 2014 at 2:41 pm

     Hi Steve…. when you get a chance could you post an answer to my question about a possible way around paying a double TIP fee as posted above4

     Reply
301. Bruce McGovern says:

     February 14, 2014 at 10:32 pm

     >>If they send you back to the USA, then you would take your US wedding license and go apply for Residente Temporal at your Mexican Consulate as the spouse of a Mexican.
     Best of luck,
     steve

     Are you sure? I am working on Temporary residence as husband of a Mexican woman, married in the US 37+ years ago. I went to the Consulate in McAllen as most instructed, and was told, no, for that status I must apply only here in Mexico. Come in on a 180 day tourist permit, and go to INM which for me is in Puebla. It is not do-able at the Consulate.

     I was told to get an Act of Marriage in Mexico. We applied at our local marriage registrar and they do this by adding a note of marriage to my wife’s original birth certificate, and giving us a certified copy. Next week we are going to INM to see if that is enough.

     I know about the note of matrimony on the original birth certificate because of local genealogy work using original document images from Salt Lake City. That is how marriages were recorded in the 1800’s after the government started recording marriages.

     Banjercita at Anzalduas told me to take my new residency papers, when completed, to the Aduanas and get my car permit extended. But, just in case, I expect to go to Aduanas before INM.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 14, 2014 at 10:39 pm

       Hi Bruce,
       If you read the old October 1 Comment/question, the person asking was only an ordinary visitor – having no legal relationship to a Mexican citizen – which is not like your situation:

       “I have been married for 13 yrs and then divorced now for 5 yrs in Cancun with a Mexican in Registro Civil. “

       This means that the advice we gave to this person does not fit your situation. If you read our article above – your situation is covered:
       Other Categories/Qualifications that Permit a Foreigner to Become a Residente Temporal https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Other%20Categories/Qualifications%20that%20Permit%20a%20Foreigner%20to%20Become%20a%20Residente%20Temporal

       “Vinculo Familiar
       Vinculo Familiar por Unidad de Familia applications for Residente Temporal

       are done here in Mexico

       – under visitors visas for family members when the head of the family gets Residente Temporal, and then their family members qualify for RT without financial requirements, as described here: http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/Tramites_LM/Estancia_LM/Cambio_de_Condicion_de_Estancia/Cambio_de_condicion_de_residente_permanente_por_unidad_familiar.pdf
       and
       http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/Tramites_2013/permanecer_mexico/regularizacion/POR_VINCULO_FAMILIAR.pdf for the actual instructions.”

       You are correct on entering Mexico with a FMM/Visitor’s visa and then applying for Temporary residence as a husband of a Mexicana, but you took a quote out of context from an old comment to a person with a very different from your situation. As described in our article: Use the Vinculo Familiar route for your situation.

       * * * *
       Re your approach to getting your marriage approved: When we tried to get our US marriage approved here in Mexico, they told us our only option was to apply at the State Registro Civil. After 2 years of waiting the Registro Civil rejected our US marriage, and we had to get married here in Mexico.

       Maybe things are done differently where you are.
       steve

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         April 23, 2014 at 10:15 am

         They were indeed different. We went to the local Palace, Registro Civil, and the official took copies of the marriage certificate, and apostille, and official translation, and eventuallly pasted a note in the birth certificate book from 1942. (Doing genealogy work, I have learned they did this for marriage 150 years ago.) Then, she made a copy, signed it, had the president sign it, and INM in Puebla accepted it all.

         And, no questions on income were asked at all. Tomorrow we go back and get the card itself. I will go to your linked article. thanks.
       • yucalandia says:

         April 24, 2014 at 12:24 am

         HOORAY!
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         April 23, 2014 at 11:08 am

         Okay, I read through it all. I got our 1975 US marriage recorded here in the village registro civil, as a marriage “act” and thence have qualified for my temporal residente for being married to a Mexican citizen.

         We had at one time called the state registro civil, and they very pointedly told us we had to register it at the municipio registro civil. Voila, it worked.

         OH, WAIT. HERE IS THE PROBLEM. I was not at all responding as you thought to an October comment about an ordinary visitor. That would have made no sense at all.

         I was responding to the February 6 comment about the person married to a Mexican citizen and who was having problems getting their valid US marriage converted to a Mexican act of matrimony. Exactly the identical issue.

         My guess is we went to my wife’s local registro civil and they accepted it, because that is what they are supposed to do with a foreign marriage of a local native. AS I said we tried the state registro civil, and they correctly instructed us to her home town.

         This may well be a difference of state law, but in Puebla, there is absolutely no need to get married again if you have the correct legal documents.

         While I am not at all qualified to give advice on these issues, if I did, I would suggest such couples return to his/her home town/municipio and not bother with a state registro civil. If there are problems in his/her home municipio look for a local immigration attorney for help.

         I do think the person in the McAllen consulate who told us what to do (incredibly, the guard at the door who has done the same thing himself) did say state registro civil, but so far it seems no one has managed to get the act recorded via that route. That would agree with our success, wouldn’t it?
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         April 23, 2014 at 11:19 am

         Okay, sigh! I did refer to the Oct. 1 comment, but that comment did indeed say one cannot change status inside Mexico. And, my point was in family unity, you can. Sorry.
302. Bruce McGovern says:

     February 14, 2014 at 10:33 pm

     Sorry, forgot to ask for follow-up notes.

     Reply
303. Bruce McGovern says:

     February 14, 2014 at 10:50 pm

     On October 1, you said a visitante cannot be changed to another status inside Mexico. But, that is what I was told I must do by the McAllen consulate, and this then explained what the man in INM in Puebla told me last June when my FM-3 or whatever it had been called, expired. He said come in on a 180 day visa and I will get you your Temporary Residence. I didn’t understand him, and because of unanswered questions about out car, we came in on the 180 day visa, but went back to McAllen in October to get the temporary residence, and found out we could not do so.

     Reply
304. Dora the Explorer says:

     February 28, 2014 at 7:56 am

     Hi. My husband and I have decided to move to Mexico with our two-year-old daughter indefinitely. I was wondering since my husband is a Mexican, can my daughter apply for permanent residence or be registered as a Mexicana despite being a minor? Can I also apply for the same if my daughter is granted permanent residence?
     Thank you!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 28, 2014 at 6:37 pm

       Hi Dora,
       You and your daughter enter Mexico as visitors as family members of Mexican citizen. When in Mexico, you start your residency processes for you and your daughter (at your local INM office) under the reuniting families rules under Vinculo Familiar. Read about Vinculo Familiar above as:
       Other Categories/Qualifications that Permit a Foreigner to Become a Residente Temporal https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Other%20Categories/Qualifications%20that%20Permit%20a%20Foreigner%20to%20Become%20a%20Residente%20Temporal

       “Vinculo Familiar
       Vinculo Familiar por Unidad de Familia applications for Residente Temporal … are done here in Mexico

       as described here: http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/Tramites_LM/Estancia_LM/Cambio_de_Condicion_de_Estancia/Cambio_de_condicion_de_residente_permanente_por_unidad_familiar.pdf
       and
       http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/Tramites_2013/permanecer_mexico/regularizacion/POR_VINCULO_FAMILIAR.pdf for the actual instructions.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • Dora the Explorer says:

         March 1, 2014 at 10:28 am

         Thank you! I guess I was confused. I thought if my daughter was registered as a Mexicana that I could apply for permanent residence through her instead of going through the process of temporary residence first. Oh well.
       • yucalandia says:

         March 1, 2014 at 12:33 pm

         Hi Dora,
         I think I misunderstand. Is your daughter registered as a Mexican citizen, with a Mexican passport? Was her birth officially registered in Mexico with the Mexican Government? (Your prior post did not say if she was born in USA or Mexico).

         If she is fully registered as a Mexican citizen, then yes, you can apply for residente permanente under Vinculo Familiar – same areas of INM rules for Vinculo Familiar por Unidad Familiar.

         For details, see above: Special Rights of Foreigners who are Family Members of Mexican Citizens: https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Special%20Rights%20of%20Foreigners%20who%20are%20Family%20Members%20of%20Mexican%20Citizens

         Here is the SEGOB / INM official page for Residente Temporal or Resident Permanente for “Vinculo Familiar por Unidad Familiar”:

         Click to access Visa_unidad_familiar.pdf

         Here also is the SRE page with the rules and requirements: http://embamex.sre.gob.mx/espana/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=407
         steve
305. Gary says:

     March 4, 2014 at 11:20 am

     A friend is dealing with the Consulate in Miami to apply for Residency. Once in Merida, will they once again have to provide all bank statements to INM here, or is verification by the Miami Consulate final?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 4, 2014 at 1:55 pm

       Great question. I have not heard what the Merida INM office is currently doing on this. In the past, some applicants-approved-by-Consulates have had to bring statements, others not. I’ll stop by and ask, steve

       Reply
     • 1947jbbarker says:

       March 21, 2014 at 11:25 pm

       We were required to provide bank statements in San Antonio, Texas and again at Queretaro INM.

       Reply
306. scott says:

     March 6, 2014 at 7:29 pm

     Thanks for your reply Steve, maybe I should find out if a resident card has any benefits over a tourist card. My house is only 3 hours below the border, so getting a tourist card twice a year is not an issue. Can you recommend a place or someone who can give me a solid answer to the permanent vs tourist visa??? Thanks Scott

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 6, 2014 at 9:08 pm

       Hi Scott,
       You could check Rollybrook.com.

       Really, his site and this site are the 2 top spots to find this information.

       Did you read the advantages and disadvantages listed above for Residente Permanente visas? https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Advantages%20and%20Disadvantages%20of%20Residente%20Permanente%20vs.%20Residente%20Temporal

       In addition to the items listed above (like TIP cars for Visitors versus Residente Permanente’s ability to either buy a car in Mexico or leave a car in Mexico), Residente Permanente offers the opportunity for working in Mexico and for naturalized citizenship in the future – where citizenship offers the fullest protections.
       Enjoy,
       steve

       Reply
307. scott says:

     March 7, 2014 at 10:54 am

     Thanks Steve, I read the whole article and in my case it’s starting to look like the advantages of an RP are not that great. I’m still going to make another attempt with the Consulate however, just to see if I can beat the bureaucracy. I will keep you informed of my progress… Scott

     Reply
308. David says:

     March 7, 2014 at 1:17 pm

     Hi Scott,
     Just saying…. unless you intend to become a Mexican citizen down the road, going through the various steps and time frame to that end can be a tedious and expensive proposition. We have done this for 8 years now as Residente Temporal and at this juncture, we ” have ” to convert to Residente Permanente or else leave the country and start over again as R.T. by re-applying at a consulate.
     We have decided that 180 days at a time FMM’s ( tourist visas ) are more economical in the long run and the new laws now allow tourists or non-residents to own property anyway so there does not seem to be any advantage to citizenship, except the ability to vote, if that is something you feel important to you.
     In either scenario ( FMM , R.T. or R.P. ) you will still have to make a ” refundable ” deposit to get your TIP for your car. …… until such time as you elect to import your car permanently ( be prepared to part with some serious cash to do this and note that you cannot import non-Nafta cars )
     One disadvantage to the FMM ( tourist route ) seems to be that your TIP is coded to your FMM and in theory you cannot leave the country without the car going with you …… for example, you want to run back to the U.S. quickly by plane or take a trip by plane to say Guatemala for whatever reason… this would involve surrendering your FMM and buying a new one upon re-entry.
     It is unclear whether you would be even allowed to leave unless the car were with you, or whether if you were allowed to leave and then tried to re-enter and buy a new FMM, … would they allow this, because it would show up on the computer that you had a car tied to your previous FMM and you did not surrender your TIP when you left the country.
     Likewise if you ” drove ” up to the border and crossed into the U.S. without surrendering either your FMM or your TIP, would you be allowed to re-enter ( assuming that both your FMM and TIP were still valid timewise ) …. or would you be fined and have to buy both all over again?
     In the past if you had an FM-3 or FM-2 and a valid TIP ( tied to those documents ) you could in theory come and go as you pleased ( although you were ” supposed ” to stop when leaving and get a re-entry permit …… very few people did and the vast majority never had any problem )
     However with the newer computer system, things may change. We just made a quick to the U.S. last month and had no problem. We re-entered with just a cursory look at Matamoros border and then at the 50 km checkpoint they looked at both the car papers and the FM-3 ( residente temporal card ) and passed us through with no questions. …. just lucky ?
     Maybe Steve or someone else can shed some light on the whole coming and going with a car thing on either an FMM + TIP or an R.T./R.P + TIP ???????

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 7, 2014 at 3:23 pm

       Hi David,
       You wrote:
       “Likewise if you ” drove ” up to the border and crossed into the U.S. without surrendering either your FMM or your TIP, would you be allowed to re-enter ( assuming that both your FMM and TIP were still valid timewise ) …. or would you be fined and have to buy both all over again?

       This is a peculiar issue, because the result depends on the Aduana and INM agents at the border crossing you use – and may also depend on how you handle it. Formally, the law requires you to turn in your FMM every time you leave Mexico, which means you also have to surrender the TIP. In reality, some people are stopped and fined when they return to Mexico, when INM sees that they have an existing FMM visitor visa that was not surrendered, and especially if it is still not expired. Alternately, some people, especially those who stop at INM on their way when driving out, and notify INM personnel that they are leaving Mexico (temporarily) and that they plan to re-enter (say in “2 or 3 days”), many INM crossings wave them through – and approve them for re-entry without surrendering either the FMM or the TIP. (See playaboy’s multiple experiences with this at Mexconnect: http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=197632;page=2;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

       So, it’s up to you. If you drive out of Mexico without turning in your FMM, and do not stop and get those local INM agent’s approval to leave and come back on the same FMM, you may do it with no problems, or ~ you may get a fine of $1,000 to $3,000 pesos for leaving without turning in your FMM. Also note that if you do get a new FMM visitors visa without surrendering an associated TIP, then that TIP becomes automatically and immediately invalid – and the police can permanently confiscate your car.

       It’s the difference between the letter of the law versus how the law is sometimes enforced (or not) ???
       steve

       Reply
309. scott says:

     March 7, 2014 at 2:30 pm

     I am not required to obtain a T.I.P. for my car in north or south Baja at this time. But they just made it mandatory for trailer boats over 16′, so who knows what’s next. I have a lease agreement for the lot where my house is (on the beach), but own the house itself, which is very common in Baja (no Fidiecomiso). At this point the only other thing that having RP status would do for me is allow me to fish the Coronado Islands off Tijuana without having to get a “Fishing FMM” which is another new condition the Mexican government has decided to create in the last few months. I still would like a “definitive” answer (if that’s possible) as to what document or permit I should have as a property owner in case I ever need it. Scott

     Reply
310. David says:

     March 7, 2014 at 6:09 pm

     Not quite sure what your status is ? Maybe Baja is different, but I’m not sure how you could own the house but only be leasing the land ? What will happen to your house ” ownership ” if/when your lease on the land expires or the landowner just decided to kick you out ?
     This sounds like a very dicy situation.
     I have NEVER been asked to show proof of ownership on my house/land except initially to obtain my ” sociadad anonimo ” which years ago allowed you buy land on the coast as a foreigner ” without ” having a ” fiedecomisio.”
     Nowadays the law has been changed and anyone can buy/own land on the coast regardless of you immigration status, so back to your question ….. I suppose the only proof of ownership would be your annual receipt for your ” predial ” (taxes ) , though what you would need it for I don’t know.
     Maybe in order to sell your house/land somewhere down the line ?

     Reply
311. scott says:

     March 7, 2014 at 7:00 pm

     My place is a “Campo” and we have leased several places from the family that owns the land over the past 30 years. I’m taking over my Dad’s house and he was the one with the FM3. You are right that I could be asked to leave and not have my lease renewed, but back in the day there was no way to “own” the land, so people agreed to the terms and were allowed to improve their lots from trailers to real structures which belong to them and not the landlord. There are renters laws that would make it difficult for the owners to just evict everyone without compensation and the yearly rents are a main source of their income. If that did happen however, we wouldn’t be hurt too badly and are prepared for it. Baja is definitely different from the Mainland in many ways… Scott

     Reply
312. David says:

     March 8, 2014 at 9:18 am

     If you are happy with your arrangement as it stands, then no problem. If it were me I would rather buy the land from the owner and set up a sociadad anonimo or have a lawyer find out how to just own the land outright as a foreigner under the new laws. That way there is never any lingering doubt …. a family falling out / the heirs don’t agree with the current owner / whatever.
     You are right though that Baja is different but then again so is all of Mexico. Each state has different rules or interprets national rules differently and are laws unto themselves. There is no consistency … e.g. aduana and immigration are the worst offenders.and some of their rules and interpretation just defy logic ( at least from a gringos view )
     If you live to be 100 you will never understand how a Mexican’s mind works.
     Good luck.

     Reply
313. scott says:

     March 8, 2014 at 12:48 pm

     Well, there’s no chance of buying the land as the “Campo” was never sub divided or surveyed. I’m sure many people think they can buy and some camp owners would probably accommodate them, but we have always understood what it is that we have. I agree with you that as a foreigner, the process seldom makes sense. However, I would hate to become involved in a legal dispute and be immediately dismissed by the court for not having the correct status. I guess I could consult an immigration attorney, but I doubt that I would get the same answer from one to another… Scott

     Reply
314. stevecinq says:

     March 10, 2014 at 6:50 am

     Hi Steve,

     We have a bit of a messy situation which I’ll try to summarise briefly.

     My partner and I are both Australian and are Residentes Temporales. We exited Mexico on Feb 27 knowing our visas would expire on March 12 but expected to be able to get back within 55 days (ie, by April 27) to renew.

     On arrival, it turns out that my elderly parents will require a fair bit of care as one of then receives medical treatment and they prepare to sell their house and move closer to my siblings. Consequently, I would like to stay on for a few months (less than 180 days in total) and assist with that. My partner is intending to return as scheduled, around the end of March.

     Having extensively perused your sections on visa renewal whilst outside of Mexico when a visa expires and the possibility of providing and Carte Poder to complete the renewals, our lawyer has instead advised me that I must be in the country to complete the renewal. So we’re confused.

     Our ideal result is that my partner return to Mexico within the 55 days window and renew both of our visas, possibly with our lawyer’s assistance, sending me my new card for use when I re-enter Mexico around the end of July. Failing that, I have the (expensive and time-consuming) option of flying back to Mexico by the end of the 55 day window and applying for renewal in person, but I would hope to leave Mexico virtually immediately and return to Australia until late July. Failing that, I guess I could just relinquish my residency but I’m am very reluctant to do that.

     Any ideas? Is our lawyer correct? Or is he missing something that could result in a better solution for us? (As I said, a messy situation.) Thanks for any input.

     Saludos, Steve

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 10, 2014 at 8:18 am

       Hi Steve,
       Your partner or your lawyer would normally be able to start the process for you, but there may be some special circumstance/requirement that comes up by being late – having an expired visa. ??

       If that is true: Since your visas are now expired, you may either have to come back to Mexico to renew – or you could apply for a new residente temporal in your home country (Australia).

       …or if you are married to your partner and the marriage is recognized in Mexico, you could allow your visa to expire – return to Mexico as a visitor visa, and use the Vinculo Familiar por Unidad Familiar option for you to be united with your spouse to apply for a Residente Temporal as a spouse of a Residente Temporal. (Though that route has several hurdles to clear – like having your marriage recognized by Mexico.)
       steve

       Reply
       • stevecinq says:

         March 11, 2014 at 6:15 pm

         Thanks Steve. We’re not formally married so that route probably won’t fly. I’m guessing that the impediment to having my partner apply for me is either an issue with the visa being expired, as you say, or quite possibly that our lawyer is mistaken and is just as bamboozled by the rules as we are. I’ll ask him to double check with IMN as returning to Mexico for, literally, a week is a pain and at a very bad time. Cheers again.
       • yucalandia says:

         March 12, 2014 at 1:48 pm

         Hi steve,
         I have previously read all 400+ pages of the INM law, the INM Reglamentos and both versions of the INM Lineamientos, and there is nothing in them prohibiting you from using a representative to start the renewal process for you.

         I went to our INM regional office this morning, and the information agents were not sure, so, they checked with a supervisor, who checked the INM manual, and they all agreed that you could start the renewal process on-line, use a Carta de Poder to authorize a representative to submit your documents at the INM office, but that you have to be back here for fingerprinting and signing.

         They did however make a big deal about you needing to submit “original documents”, not copies…. ???

         This all makes me think that either your attorney does not know the rules, or your local INM office could be being difficult (individual INM offices do have leeway / discretion in deciding how to enforce some policies). ???
         steve
315. rubygeorgina says:

     March 10, 2014 at 7:55 pm

     I seem to recall that you had a sample Cover Letter for Permanente visa application. I’ve checked through your site but can’t find it. Would you be able to direct me to that link please?

     Thanks kindly.
     Georgina

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 10, 2014 at 8:49 pm

       ~ Current Rules and Procedures for Immigration ~ Immigrating to, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico

       Reply
       • rubygeorgina says:

         March 11, 2014 at 8:02 am

         Thanks so much.. spent a lot of time on that page yesterday but must have been too late… found it quite easily with your assistance this morning.

         Have a great day!
316. Mike Cimmongs says:

     March 21, 2014 at 9:34 am

     Steve,
     My wife and I are Temporary residents living in Chelem. We are driving back to Canada at the end of April until the end of August. Our visas expire on the 28th July so we have to be back within the 55 day grace period. I understand that we need to stop at INM on the way back. Do we need exit paperwork from our local INM office and fill out a FMM card at the border? What do we do at Customs as far as the car is concerned? What paperwork do we hand them. We applied for and still have not received the extension but have the official application that we were told to keep in the car at all times to show the Authorities if we were ever stopped.

     Thanks for your help
     Mike

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 21, 2014 at 9:52 am

       Hi Mike,
       Yes, stop at the border and check-out of Mexico (filling out an FMM).

       Yes, surrender your car’s TIP. If you let your INM visa expire without surrendering the TIP, you definitely lose the $300 TIP deposit.

       When you return, get a new TIP.

       To avoid the hassles of an expiring visa, you could check out having a trusted representative start your INM renewal process on July 28’th? Write up a Carta de Poder (Power of Attorney) letter giving them full rights / full authority to act on your behalf as your legal representative to start the renewal process – but I would check with a good immigration attorney on if this is possible, because I believe you have to turn in your INM Resident Temporal cards – which makes re-entry at the border non-routine – unclear on how it would work best(?)

       I spoke with INM Merida about this last week, and they said “yes” they could have a legal rep start the process for a guy who is in Australia – but it’s not clear how re-entry into Mexico works using that route…
       steve

       Reply
317. Maggie says:

     March 21, 2014 at 3:13 pm

     Hi Steve,
     I am looking for some guidance again please….
     My husband & I got FM2’s in 2011, renewed these in 2012 & got Residente Temporal’s (due to change in law). By the time renewal came around again in 2013 we had adopted a Mexican child so applied for Residente Permanente…which we have an automatic entitlement to now that we are related to a Mexican Citizen.
     We applied for & received a Temporary Exit Permission letter in December 2013 as our visa’s were not yet completed & left Mexico.
     Due to unforseen circumstances we were not in a position to return to Mexico within the 60 day window which this letter allowed.
     We are now without visa’s but are very anxious to secure the Residente Permanente.
     Will we need to start all over again??
     As we are applying based on our relationship with our Mexican daughter, does the break in visa’s matter?
     Will we need to apply for a visitors visa to get into Mexico & then go to INM office to apply for the visas again?
     Your help is appreciated as always.
     Maggie

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 21, 2014 at 4:10 pm

       Hi Maggie,
       By exceeding the 60 day limit, you lose the $$, and have to start over again.

       Yes, you can come in as visitors, and then use the “Vinculo Familiar por Unidad de Familia” route to RP described above – starting over.
       steve

       Reply
       • Maggie says:

         April 14, 2014 at 10:08 pm

         Hi Steve,
         I have a question in relation to the following on information on your website…..
         “If you have already successfully turning in your ID fotos, been fingerprinted, and paid for your Residente Permanente or Residente Temporal, you can give a Carta de Poder letter to a trusted friend or family member, granting them permission to pick up your new Tarjeta de Residencia when it is ready. They then send you your new Residency by DHL or UPS, while you are still in Canada or the USA – and you then turn in your INM letter when you renter Mexico using your new Residency Card”

         Is this state specific??
         This would be a great benefit to us but our lawyer tells us we need to be there in person to sign for the Cards.
         We do not have enough spanish to ask the question ourselves.
         Any help appreciated.
         Maggie
       • yucalandia says:

         April 15, 2014 at 7:33 am

         Hi Maggie,
         Yes, you need to be there to for the fingerprint step and document signing (the signature that gets printed onto your card), but a representative can then pick up the cards when ready (which can take from 3 days to 2 weeks typically – but at a few wretched offices they take a month or more to get the cards). Your representative then Fed Ex’s your new cards to you, and you use them to re-enter Mexico.

         Again, check with your local office and lawyer for details, (and possible stumbling blocks) and if they are willing to do this. This works if you are driving out of Mexico or are driving around Mexico, but if you have to fly out, I understand that INM does not issue the cards to a representative while we are using that 60 day travel permission letter – and the airlines and INM require you to have Mexican INM ID or permission-to-travel documents when you fly out.
         steve
318. Dianne says:

     March 22, 2014 at 11:47 pm

     I recently moved to Ajijic, Mexico after starting the ball rolling for a residente temporal. In Houston, the consul wasn’t too interested in my bank statements, but wanted paycheck stubs proving up an adequate income.
     I had visited the consul in February, after leaving my job in January. It seemed wise to apply right after I left my job so that I would not have to explain a gap in income, as I cannot yet collect social security. I was approved for a residente temporal, and drove to Ajijic in early March. At the INM office in Chapala, I was NOT asked to provide anything but filled-out forms from the government’s website. It took perseverance, but I did the paperwork myself and didn’t hire a lawyer. I also applied online for a letter giving me permission to leave Mexico while my application is pending. (I am only waiting to be asked in a few months to provide fingerprints.) The request was granted, and I hope to be able to finish my Houston business and hurry home to Ajijic.
     I’ve been in Mexico only two and a half weeks total.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 23, 2014 at 9:59 am

       Hi Dianne,
       Well done !
       Enjoy your new life in Mexico,
       steve

       Reply
319. Alex Double says:

     April 14, 2014 at 5:24 pm

     Help! WE have permanent residents’ visas issued at the Mexican embassy in London. We own land in La Paz BCS. We have sold our home here and are leaving on 30th April. to retire permanently there. We have just been told that we must have a NUT to import our possessions into Mexico. This has never been mentioned and the Embassy says we do not need one but the agent in Mexico says we must have one. Can anyone clarify this for us as we are absolutely at our wits end not knowing where we stand.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 15, 2014 at 7:41 am

       Hi Alex,
       I don’t know the specific rules, but it would make sense that your agent in Mexico could want to see a NUT, because the NUT proves that you have officially started the Residente Permanente process. We have only dealt with getting NUTs from inside Mexico – easy to get, by logging the application into the INM website and going down to our local INM office to formally/officially start the application process – so, I don’t know when you get your NUT while applying at a Consulate or Embassy.

       Are you sure that you do not already have a NUT?

       Do you have a Menaje de Casa list of your household goods approved by the Mexican Embassy?

       The Menaje de Casa list approval ONLY happens when you have formal approval from the Consulate/Embassy to come to Mexico to complete your Residente Permanente process – which should be sufficient proof that you are officially approved to come here… and that you have officially started the INM RP process. (The NUT is proof that you have officially started the Residente Permanente application process).
       ???
       steve

       Reply
       • Alex Double says:

         April 15, 2014 at 3:29 pm

         Dear Steve

         Thanks for the info. We do not have a NUT but have permanent residence visas. We do not yet have our Menaje de Casa yet as we will only get this when we have packed our container but it is in hand and we have an appointment at the embassy to get it signed. Do you know how long it will be to get the green card? the embassy thinks a couple of days. What is your opinion?
       • yucalandia says:

         April 16, 2014 at 11:08 am

         Hi Alex,
         The processing times for completing a Residente Permanente tarjeta application vary widely with the INM office you use.

         Some INM offices are processing cards within a week, while others are taking over a month. 2-3 weeks is typical from your first trip to your INM office.
         steve
320. Maggie says:

     April 15, 2014 at 11:14 am

     Thank you Steve, I am checking it out with local Immigration Office.
     Again, thanks for your help
     Maggie

     Reply
321. Alex Double says:

     April 16, 2014 at 3:50 pm

     Dear Steve

     Many thanks for your very helpful information. It is greatly appreciated. I have registered the visa online won a INM (SEGOB) form and have been given a Pieza number was this the right thing to do t start the process before we arrive? I also could not read Spanish well enough to find out how to pay the fee or should that be paid directly to the INM when I go there in person? Sorry about all the questions but i am working a little bit in the dark right now.

     Many thanks
     Alex

     Reply
322. aboomerabroad says:

     April 21, 2014 at 10:26 pm

     Hi Steve, has there ever been a clear outline of how the point system works so you can asses if you qualify? I have been working under a temp visa from a uni. I don’t want to go back next year to the uni but want to keep the door open to business activities later and not be on just a retiree visa. I would like to jump to permanent professional one based on net worth and points. Thanks

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 22, 2014 at 12:28 am

       Hey Boomer,
       What a great question.

       There has been no official word describing the points system, since 2010, which is a bummer. It’s clear that some Consulates and some INM offices totally ignore the possibility/opportunities, and exclusively follow the personal fiscal responsibility requisitos or vinculo familiar requisitos.

       Only a few Consulates (like Miami) and a few INM offices have been using their own (informal?) “points systems” – by awarding residency based on contributions to Mexico (other than $$), and there have been no descriptions of the details of how they weight things.

       I think you have to ask your office/Consulate, and make a case (a little presentation) to a supervisor or manager showing how you make a strong candidate for using the mythical “Points System”.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
323. aboomerabroad says:

     April 22, 2014 at 10:19 am

     Steve, thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on my luck) that is what I was expecting. It seems like the easiest route to go would be getting to an office that only uses the net worth requirements then or there is a chance the person is having a bad day and just doesn’t like me. Now I have to figure out what office is what.

     Reply
324. Bruce McGovern says:

     April 23, 2014 at 10:17 am

     Paying fees, in our experience, one goes to the Derechos page on the Internet, and print out the correct derechos form. You take this to a qualified Mexican bank, and pay, you get multiple receipts and INM accepts that. Can’t say that is universal, but it is universal on INM pages.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 24, 2014 at 12:23 am

       Hi Bruce,
       Good point.
       Our Merida INM office prints out a special page you take to the bank, and then, with that page from INM, INM allows you back into their offices that same day, (even after the formal 1:00 pm closing time). They know that you have their paper, and will return with a proof-of-payment receipt from a bank, so, the guard unlocks the gate and lets you in, to drop off your proof-of-payment paper – to keep your application process flowing along smoothly and quickly.
       Thanks!
       steve

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         April 25, 2014 at 5:47 pm

         All those forms are available on line, in a page called Derechos which includes those forms for any INM activity with a fee. For my second trip, they had instructed me to bring the 3 copies of receipts with me. But, she expected me to find and print it and have it paid for the second visit.

         Derechos should be listed on the INM page in the links section. During that second visit, they asked for the bank receipts, very first thing.

         After I got the card, we went to Aduanas, which in Puebla is close to the big soccer stadium on that boulevard. I had pre-typed a petition for extension of the importation of my car, after INM I went to a Cyber cafe, and changed the dates to the correct ones. I had the file on my flash memory.

         I SHOULD HAVE HAD A COMPROBANTE, a documentation of my address.I have tried to get one and have been rejected, told me I needed documentation, such as a utility bill. But, utilities won’t change my address without a comprobante, sigh.

         They took it anyway, and said they’d sent it to Mexico City. But, they did give me a legally stamped copy for showing to transitos. They said the permission will not be received for at least a month, maybe two. And, not to even call them for one full month.

         So, I am able to continue driving my car until Aduanas either accepts or rejects me.

         The wording on that extension application is modified from Rollyb, and if someone needs it, I can certainly supply it, in anonymized format.

         I assume I will have to buy a Mexican vehicle within two years when i must change to permanent resident status. The woman at the front desk insisted I could nationalize my 2002 Sienna, up to 2007. That does not seem to agree with how i read the Internet rules.

         But, a cousin says the man from whom I buy my five gallons of honey each year works for that legal group so he is going to ask.

         The most important thing I have learned, and I am not sure it is correct in all states, is I think anyone married in the US should go to the birthplace of the Mexican spouse where the birth is registered, instead of first going to the State registro civil, to get the marriage act. I would be interested in hearing how that works for others.
       • yucalandia says:

         April 26, 2014 at 5:42 am

         Hi Bruce,
         Good updates!

         When you talk about “internet rules” on importing cars, there are at least 4 different versions – all legal:
         ~ The current Aduana rule on permanently importing cars at the border is 6 years old – 29 years old.
         ~ It is only 8-9 years old for imports at seaports.
         ~ There are other temporarily special rules if you only get a UCD permit (from the campesinos union) using Sonia Diaz.
         ~ There are also special (temporary) amparos in place that customs brokers at Nuevo Laredo, Nogales, etc are using.

         This means that depending on where you try to import the car, and whom you use, the “internet rules” may or may not fit your situation.

         Re Marriage Registration: Yes, we need current valid copies of our Mexican spouse’s birth certificates to start the process, but the marriage registration process definitely begins at your state’s Registro Civil office. Been there, did it in Merida. Same for other friends with esposas Mexicanas, here and around Mexico.

         Finally, Aduana and INM both accept original power bills as comprabantes, even when they are not in your name… ??? On your application for RP in November, realize that your lawyer (abogado) may or may not know the current policy – because the policies at local offices have been changing – and some lawyers work hard to keep current, while others just go with their old knowledge.

         Best of luck,
         steve
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         April 26, 2014 at 8:34 am

         Really good stuff, Yucalandia. Especially the 6 to 29 year on car importation. Clearly that is what the receptionist in Aduanas de Mexico Puebla meant when she said as late as 2007. Since that contradicted what I have long read, it confused me. So, that is absolutely great news.

         My 2002 Sienna has 205,000 miles, still a good car, driving outside the snow zone, doesn’t burn oil, and transmission is solid. Only worth maybe $3000 in the US, but with repairs should go to 500,000 if not wrecked. And, the new ones or even good uses ones cost so much! This is major good news.

         The problem on comprobante is that when the house was built, petty offcials at CFE and Telmex both insisted we MUST have a street address, even though our village did not yet have them. So, a clever niece made up street addresses. When we finally got street addresses, the originals were naturally wrong. When we tried to correct the addresses with the utilities, they said we needed a comprobante. When we tried to get a comprobante, they said we needed utility bills.

         I can get a comprobante. We have connections, heh, heh. But, I didn’t have it when I went to Aduanas de Mexico Puebla, because attempts to get one had failed and I didn’t see an immediate need for one.

         >> but the marriage registration process definitely begins at your state’s Registro Civil office. Been there, did it in Merida.

         Let me fix that. “But the marriage registration process definitely begins at your state’s Registro Civil office, EXCEPT IN PUEBLA STATE.”

         We were told by the guard in McAllen consulate (being married to a Mexican citizen he was the consulate expert on family unity, as funny as that seems) that we must go to the State Registro Civil. So we duly called the state Registro Civil in Puebla, and they immediately told us we MUST go to the local registro civil which had her birth certificate.

         We did and in a few weeks we had our valid act of matrimony in hand. It only took that long because the municipio presidente was busy and it had to wait for his signature.

         Someone here posted that they applied with the State Registro Civil, and waited two years to be rejected, forcing them to re-marry in Mexico. That’s why I suggest FIRST contacting the registro civil in spouses place of birth. Of course this depends upon the registrar knowing the laws and rules. But, if your local registrar is able to do it, a fast completion. If not, yes, you might end up marrying again. Such is life in Mexico.
       • yucalandia says:

         April 26, 2014 at 8:57 am

         Hey Bruce:
         I LOVE it!

         Your info on how it is done in Puebla is perfect.

         It shows how we all have to check out the quirks of our local scenes – and adjust the “internet advice” to fit how things actually work in our own town.

         Your comprabante story is another gem. I had island property in the time before titles (ejido land), with no formal address – but I had forgotten the arcane things that happen here…
         All the best,
         steve
325. aboomerabroad says:

     April 23, 2014 at 10:21 am

     Steve, communicated with a woman who heads visa section at a consulate in the US who I dealt with before. She said that they don’t use points and only focus on the net income or worth for the permanent professional visa. You can’t be working at that time and if you have a temporary one it has to be expired. Once you get the professional one you can work but first have to contact local immigration office for their OK. She wrote that the points are only (although from your note seems like this isn’t the case) used in the offices in Mexico. She made the point system seem like it was mainly used for people that don’t qualify financially but offer something to Mexico instead of being a integral part of the decision process for everyone.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 24, 2014 at 12:17 am

       Hi Boomer,
       Can you tell us which Consulate uses these somewhat non-standard rules?

       The Consulates only have modest uniformity between what rules they pick, and which ones they make up from whole cloth.

       Your Consulate has made a rule on “not working at that time” for Residente Permanente that does NOT exist anywhere in over 400+ pages of INM Law, Reglas, nor in the Lineamientos.

       Your Consulate is also wrong about the Points System being used only inside Mexico, (yet another local quirk). We know of multiple people who clearly did not even come close to qualifying for either RP or RT based on financials, but their Mexican Consulates approved them based on meeting Points System principles.

       Your Consular visa person is correct that the Points System is intended to open up immigration to foreigners who may not meet the financial requisitos.

       Please tell us which Mexican Consulate uses these unusual policies, and…
       Thanks for the very good updates! **
       steve

       **These kinds of updates are very helpful to others – and are exactly what keeps the information here on Yucalandia both more current and more detailed and more in-depth than any other website on Mexico. … Mexico Mike has as much information, (and possibly more) , but his format is to sell pre-packaged pre-prepared special information packets with letters and really good information.

       Reply

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327. aboomerabroad says:

     April 24, 2014 at 10:05 am

     Hi Steve, it was the Portland office. I didn’t realize that others don’t require your temp residency to have expired and you not to be working. I’m glad to hear that isn’t the rule because I didn’t want to have to wait that long. I find this all very confusing because the answers differ so much.

     1. How about her claim that once I receive the permanent professional, I have to go to the local office to get their approval of whatever type of work I want to start doing? Is that the norm?

     2. Have you found other people being able to transition from the temp to the perm inside of Mexico (without going through the whole 4 year temp process) instead of leaving the country and visiting a consulate in the US?

     3. Besides Miami, what consulates have you found that approve people on points? I have a friend who is looking into it. He has an annuity and isn’t sure if that counts for net worth (he seems to feel it isn’t enough for the net income requirements) and has 10 years of English teaching and isn’t sure if that counts for points. Figure I might as well ask you about him while I’m at it.

     Thanks again

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 25, 2014 at 9:14 am

       Hi Boomer,
       Good questions. Here are some related facts:
       1. The local INM office does NOT approve you to work, they simply document what your new work is and whom/what is paying you. They do give a letter at the end of their inquiry/documentation process describing that you have the government’s acknowledgement/permission to work there.

       This may seem like some subtle hair-splitting, but words have power, so the reality is important: You can start working (as I did), and report the change to them. I had worked officially, for almost a month, with my new RFC, when I notified INM.

       INM was not troubled by this, in fact, they asked how long I had already been working – and they smiled and nodded about me becoming a productive member of Mexican society.

       Reality #2: It is the SAT/Hacienda that effectively gives you permission to work, by recording your request to work, get paid, and pay taxes. You get that SAT/Hacienda approval officially by getting an RFC that is linked to your (new ~ first-time) employment / work. Still, this is also not formally a government “work permit”.

       2. Yes, I know many people who have made the change from RT status to RP status at their local INM office while living in Mexico. This is the most common way Americans and Canadians become RPs.

       3. Both Miami and Phoenix Mexican Consulates have approved gringos who clearly did not meet the other personal fiscal responsibility requisitos – and they were given Mexican residency (RTs) based on the exact characteristics described in the “Points System” – even though there is no formal points system. Since the “Points System” requisitos are nebulous – not precisely defined -, it is up to the Consular person who evaluates the application. One fellow was just incredibly pleasant, and spoke superb Spanish, and expressed a great attitude towards working in Mexico and supporting his local community in Mexico, and the Miami Consulate official decided that he would be a great asset to Mexico…

       Imagine if that were the test that all Consular officials and INM officials applied:
       “Sorry, we are denying your application because:”
       ….. a. you have not learned even basic Spanish.

       ….. b. Mexico is a polite and civilized country: You have been too rude to qualify as a resident of Mexico.

       ….. c. You are far too grumpy to be of benefit to our society and culture.

       ….. d. Your loud and pushy behaviors are not welcome in Mexico.

       ….. e. Your selfish, self-centered attitudes have been found to be non-beneficial to Mexico.

       ….. f. We have carefully studied your writings and verbal opinions on Mexico, and at this time, we believe you would not be an asset to Mexico.

       … ??? …
       steve

       Reply

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330. aboomerabroad says:

     May 21, 2014 at 10:20 am

     FYI. well went to Puebla immigration office this fair morning. they will not under any circumstances let you switch from temp to perm until you’ve been on the temp for 4 years even with the net worth option.

     I’ve heard that it is about impossible to go to other offices because your paperwork has to be transferred by your original office and that is a bureaucratic nightmare. True?

     Maybe this is why the Portland office requires the temp to expire before switching you to perm. then they can start anew.

     Reply
331. markemmer says:

     May 21, 2014 at 11:41 am

     Boomer — I can’t comment on moving to a different INM office, but can reaffirm that transitioning from RT to RP in less than four years based on net worth is quite doable elsewhere. My wife did it in Morelia last November. She submitted a letter outlining the requirements listed in Articulo 44 5(a) of the Lineamientos and then submitted that information — 12 months of account statements. Everyone smiled and eventually they shook her hand and congratulated her when she eventually picked up her RP card. No drama whatsoever.

     BTW, you are a pensionado or jubilado, right? That’s a basic requirement of 44-5, something that people sometimes overlook. My wife had her social security statement with her to prove she was a pensionada, but they didn’t ask for it. If you don’t meet that test, then the entire net worth or monthly income sections don’t apply for RP, and you have to do the full four years as an RT.

     Here’s a generalized version of her solicitation letter if it will help you or anyone else: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12631920/Visas/RT2RP_Generic.doc

     If in fact you’re a pensionado or jubilado and Puebla INM refused to comply with the lineamientos, perhaps you could do an online consulta with INM in D.F. and get a response that you could take to Puebla? The consulta is free and available here: http://www.inm.gob.mx/consultas/

     Good luck.
     Mark

     Reply
     • markemmer says:

       May 21, 2014 at 11:48 am

       Steve, I replied to Boomer before I noticed your new posts on the top of the page that indeed, INM may require proof of jubilado status. It doesn’t contradict what I wrote above, but if doing it now, we would have explicitly included the Social Security statement in the list of items we were submitting.

       Cheers,
       Mark

       Reply
     • aboomerabroad says:

       May 21, 2014 at 12:48 pm

       Hi, I’m not sure what a jubilado is. but I was working at a private uni as a professor. I’m going for the perm professional residency. Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out.

       Reply
       • markemmer says:

         May 21, 2014 at 1:17 pm

         Boomer, I think we’re getting to the crux of your problem — it sounds like you’re not retired (jubilado) or a pensioner (pensionado). Being one or the other (don’t ask me the distinction, I haven’t a clue) is a requirement for permanent residency without waiting four years as residente temporal. It’s in the lineamientos both for applying at a consulate and at INM within Mexico:
         http://www.dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5276966&fecha=08/11/2012
         and
         http://www.dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5276967&fecha=08/11/2012

         There’s a handy-dandy translate-to-English button partway down the right side of each page. The first one is for consulates — read Tramite 7, Requisito IV. See where (a) says you have to be retired or on a pension? (b) is keeping families together, and (c) is the elusive system of points.

         In the second link, look at Articulo 44 and at how it differs from the previous one. Requisito 2 says you must have a residente temporal. Requisito 5 is for retirees or pensioners doing it in less than four years. Requisito 6 let’s you in after 4 years as a temporal, whether you’re retired or not.

         Them’s the choices, at least as I read it. If you’re not a pensioner or retired, you have to come in as residente temporal, unless you can convince someone that you’re worthy under the undescribed point system.

         I’m sure Steve will correct me if I’ve got this wrong.

         Mark
       • yucalandia says:

         May 21, 2014 at 5:40 pm

         Boomer,
         Jubilado is a retired person.

         I apologize for BOLDING parts of Mark’s post, but these statements simply do not fit how things are done in most places – where reality is a patchwork-quilt of policies…..

         Mark observed: “Being one or the other (don’t ask me the distinction, I haven’t a clue) is a requirement for permanent residency without waiting four years as residente temporal.

         This is only partly correct. There are a large group of Mexican Consulates who award Residente Permanente to Americans and Canadians, who are NOT retired, and who have NO pension income – but who do have enough savings $$ to meet the INM law’s savings requirements for RP – with NO prior residency in Mexico.

         These liberal Consulates are listed in various parts of this article, and in the comments – include: Portland (OR), Phoenix, Laredo, Dallas, Chicago, Detroit(?), Miami, and others. San Antonio, Boston and the California consulates (SD, LA, & SF) are the ones who have made up their own local policies that fit Mark’s understandings/experiences.

         I have spoken with 3 different INM supervisors and managers about this, and they all agree that savings $$ are solely sufficient to qualify for Residente Permanente – with no prior residency and NO retirement and no pension income.

         Most INM offices currently allow Residente Temporales to use JUST savings $$ to qualify for Residente Permanente. The notable exceptions are the Guadalajara INM office, the Chapala office, and the Puebla office.

         Unfortunately, there is a patchwork of policies, and sometimes the individual offices change policies on the whim of their official in charge: e.g. Guadalajare & Chapala INM offices and the San Antonio Mexican Consulate accepted just saving $$ for over a year, then abruptly, 2 & 3 weeks ago, those 3 locations each changed to the restrictive policies with no warning.
         ???
         steve
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       May 21, 2014 at 5:45 pm

       That online consult sounds worth pursuing. Just to give my perspective, I have always done my papers with Puebla, and have found them to be the most polite; most professional; best mannered of any government office of any type I ever experienced.

       However, until this year, there was an older man there, and he was fantastic. He doesn’t seem to be there any more.

       Things are different for Family Unity. Puebla told me I could have Temporary resident for two years, then had to change to Permanent resident. I had worried about my car, but found out on this blog that I can import a car between 6 and 26 years old. So, I will eventually do just that, unless my 2002 Sienna gets wiped out first.

       Also, for family unity, there was no discussion of retirement status, nor income. None at all. Unless that changes, that is a big plus for me. Who knows what will happen to Social Security or pension income in the time I have left to live?

       Reply
332. aboomerabroad says:

     May 21, 2014 at 12:04 pm

     Mark, I can’t find your email reply. What social security statement are you referring to?

     Also, I’ve been told by Rolly Brook and others that you have to go to your local office where you got your original temp residency. Anyone know of a work around for this since Puebla won’t cooperate?

     Reply
     • markemmer says:

       May 21, 2014 at 12:23 pm

       Boomer, there was no separate reply by e-mail, just what I posted above.

       The social security statement I was referring to is the annual letter my wife receives from the US Social Security Administration indicating the monthly amount she will receive for the coming year. That should be adequate proof to INM that she was a jubilada. They didn’t ask for it last November, but they might now.

       I suppose you could spend a month in Morelia or Pátzcuaro and file a change of address letter with INM Pueblo. Maybe then you could use the Morelia INM office.

       BTW, it took four visits to INM to accomplish her RT to RP change:
       1. submit application and $1,000 peso fee.
       2. One week later — application accepted, pay $3,815 peso RP fee
       3. One week later — get fingerprinted
       4. One week later — pick up card

       Clearly they could combine steps 2 and 3, but that isn’t how they do it.

       Mark

       Reply
333. markemmer says:

     May 21, 2014 at 6:37 pm

     Steve, I’m happy to be corrected. I’ve just being following the lineamientos to the letter and observing that our Morelia office seems to do the same. You however have a country-wide perspective on how things vary, and can track these differences. Very useful for someone whose situation doesn’t conform to the published rules.

     “In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.”
     — attributed to Jan L. A. van de Snepscheut (and others)

     ¡Viva México!

     Reply
334. aboomerabroad says:

     May 21, 2014 at 6:44 pm

     thanks all for the comments. I guess if I want to go straight to perm, I will have to do the portland route in late Aug after my temp has expired. that assumes there isn’t a catch with that one but I don’t think so because I went back and forth with her so many times by email confirming it.

     Reply
335. aboomerabroad says:

     May 21, 2014 at 6:55 pm

     just confirmed with a lawyer in PV. He said that what I was told by Portland is correct. If you let it expire and are not employed you can go from temp to perm after one year.

     However, (this is really an ever changing story), he said that you can’t switch to a perm retiree as did Mark’s wife and he said that with a retiree you can still work because you get an automatic work permit with any perm residency? Huh? Mark’s wife’s exp seems to contradict the first part and what I’ve read about retiree residency seems to contract the second part. Am I missing something?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 22, 2014 at 5:47 am

       Hi Mark,
       Yes, you are missing that the Consulates really are not trained in INM law, and Consulate employees regularly misquote and confuse INM law rules.

       Consulates are part of a different branch of government: They are part of SRE (Exterior Ministry = State Department), while INM is part of SEGOB (Internal Ministry). Just like US State Department employees really don’t know the details of Homeland Security/Customs & Border Patrol rules and policies (like the US car export rules), SRE Consular employees don’t know SEGOB/INM rules very well.

       Still, these Consular employees are in charge of reviewing and approving foreign applications for Mexican residency – so we have to live with these gate-keepers misunderstandings,
       steve

       Reply
336. Bruce McGovern says:

     May 23, 2014 at 4:38 pm

     Yes, I realize this also belongs over on the car thread. But, thought I’d put it here in case people come here first.

     When I got my Temporary Residency Family Unity on 24 April, I took a taxi directly to Aduanas Puebla out by the big soccer stadium, and applied to extend my car importation. I had written up the form, bases on modifications of the form on Rolly’s URL.

     They took it, gave me a copy, and said they would send it to Mexico City, and that I needed to call up eventually to see what progress there was, and it would either come to the puebla office or to my house.

     We were going to call on Monday. Today, we walked down the hill up (If you don’t live in a mountain town that phrase won’t mean much, heh, heh) to buy eggs and talk to an uncle.

     On the way back walking up the hill down, a big pickup pulled alongside and a woman in uniform asked if I were Bruce McGovern They had been driving up and down looking for my house.

     This man, the driver, and the woman work every day, covering the entire state of Puebla and Tlaxcala, delivering documents for the Aduanas. They had just been to Tehuacan and then came here, then would go back to Puebla for the night. They cover a different region every day. Considering the size of the state, that is a lot of miles every week.

     They had me make a photocopy of my resident card, then had me sign many pages, mostly to certify they had deliverd my documents.

     The documents are basically only a letter which states they have received my application for extension of car import papers and it is in process. It was dated 25 April.

     We gave them something to drink, and my wife gave them each an apple with napkin. I chatted with the driver, and he said, yes, they drive all day every day, and one just has to (my translation, chill out and keep driving.)

     I asked if I had to do this all over again next year, and the woman said she did not think so. We will see.

     They were fascinated when I told them there are 53 topes between my house and Sam’s Club in Tehuacan, and it is 52 miles. They just drove that route, but probably did not count topes.

     So, more of the import papers saga, in Puebla you apply at the local office, they forward the documents to Mexico City, not far from our house there, and eventually two employees seek you out and appear at your door to let you know application received. I will update when something else happens. Now to copy this posting where it really belongs, on the car thread.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 23, 2014 at 4:51 pm

       Good report. Thanks!

       Reply
337. KLM says:

     May 29, 2014 at 4:47 pm

     A question regarding savings required when applying for perm residency. I have some of my retirement savings in annuities as well as 401k’s, SS, and pension. Will the annuity statements be allowed? I already have a house and land in Mexico, and stay there 2-3 months every year for the past 15 years. I plan on a perm move and stating that I am retired in the fall of 2015, so I am just trying to stay ahead of the game. I would of never guessed that so many would have so many hassles!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 30, 2014 at 12:43 pm

       Hi KLM,
       Fortunately, there are not many hassles at most Consulates or at most INM offices for getting Residente Permanente.

       As noted above: It all depends on the local policies of your Mexican Consulate or your INM office. e.g. The Mexican Consulate in Laredo has been just super to work with – tolerant, accepting any legitimate documents proving sufficient savings, not requiring police background checks. Phoenix, Chicago, Miami, Dallas, Portland OR, et al Consulates are similarly GOOD to work with.

       San Antonio, Boston, and the California Consulates have been difficult, ignoring the official laws.

       NOTE that if you have had a temporary residency visa continuously (no fines or penalties) the last 4 years, (in legal theory) you don’t need to show any proof of savings at INM offices to apply for Residente Permanente. As always, local offices have the latitude to ask for more documentation than required by the INM law.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • KLM says:

         June 2, 2014 at 8:14 am

         Thank for reply. I do not have any visa yet. Just used the visitor visas over the years. I plan on applying for perm from the start. From what I understand and have researched, I should be able to prove or state that I am retired and be able to prove it. I plan on getting a meeting at the Phoenix consulate to double check everything before I apply.
         Kirk
       • yucalandia says:

         June 2, 2014 at 8:39 am

         Hi Kirk,
         The Phoenix consulate has not been requiring proof of being retired for Resident Permanente, just documentation of sufficient savings. Fortunately, the Phoenix consulate has been one of the best to work with, so things should go well for you.
         Happy Trails,
         steve
       • Cascabel says:

         December 14, 2014 at 1:41 pm

         My wife and I just obtained our Residente Permanente Visas from the Boston consulate in early December, and I would like to relate our experience there. We had called the week before to make appointments, and had explained that we were both retired and wanted to apply for RP status. The office staff was very friendly and got us two appointments at 10am and 11am (they only do two per day!) the following Tuesday.

         Even though we have a house near Progreso, we had never had more than a visitor’s permit before. With valuable guidance from this site, we took along the required photos, passport and copy, filled-out application form, and 12 months of financials showing we each had the required minimum average balance. On a hunch, we each had also brought along a bank statement showing a deposit from Social Security.

         My wife breezed through this process with just the items I have enumerated, but the consul herself called me to the window to explain that my otherwise perfect set of documents lacked anything that showed that I was retired. I then pulled out the bank statement showing the Social Security deposit, which I had kept in reserve, and she took a long look at it. She speaks near-perfect English, and had no trouble reading the statement, but she still seemed unhappy. “I can understand this,” she said, “but the folks at INM in Mexico probably won’t.” She went on to say that she could deny my application then and there, but she was going to make an exception for me and grant my application.

         The staff then took our photos and prints of both index fingers, and we sat down to wait some more. Eventually we were called into the Consul’s office, together, to have our interview. She didn’t really ask us any questions, but explained that she was trying to prevent us from coming to grief at the INM office in Mexico by making sure we weren’t lacking any documents. She said we should both get letters from our respective banks indicating that we had been receiving Social Security checks for a number of years, and that we should please send her copies of those letters (I did this 2 days later). She also said it was very important that we get a certified copy of our marriage certificate and have it apostilled by our state’s secretary of state (I am waiting for this to come back) and have it translated.

         And oh, I forgot to mention, we left the office at 1:30 the same day with our visas glued in our passports.

         It was very clear to me that the Consul was highly professional and knowledgeable, and that she was not arbitrarily throwing up obstacles in our path. At one point she made an oblique comment to the effect that some officials were requiring things they had no right to ask for. Perhaps she had had angry Americans come back for a second time after being denied in Mexico for lack of one of the documents she insisted we get. This leads me to wonder if some of the other consulates with a reputation for being strict may also be trying to protect applicant’s from rejection by INM.
       • yucalandia says:

         December 14, 2014 at 8:52 pm

         Hi Cascabel,
         Thank you for the good good report on Boston’s Mexican Consulate.

         Your updates are very helpful, and they confirm the previous 2 years of reports about how the Mexican Consulate in Boston can be one of the worst – most rigid – least understanding of the Mexican Consulates in the USA.

         For people considering applying for Residente Permanente: Cascabel did things VERY WELL.

         Cascabel’s documentation showing the SSI deposits was fully appropriate. Most INM offices generally do NOT require a letter from Social Security verifying the retired person’s status – but a few very-rigid – conservative INM offices have occasionally asked for the letter.

         Fortunately, the Boston consulate ultimately did the right thing this time, and approved the temporary visa for Cascabel and spouse to come to Mexico and get their Residente Permanente visas here at their local INM office.

         It’s ironic that the Mexican Consulate in Boston is accusing other Mexican Consulates of asking for extra requirements – when the past 2 years of reality have shown that it’s actually that Boston consulate who has a habit of adding extra non-legal requirements – and it’s Boston’s Mexican Consulate that has had the second worst reputation in the USA for approving the temporary visas. ~ almost as bad as the Mexican Embassy in Washington ~ … Too funny ! …

         In comparison: The Mexican Consulates in Laredo, San Antonio, Chicago, Portland, and Miami have 2 years of far better reputations for knowing the law, and for working helpfully with Americans to come to Mexico, than the Boston Consulate. ???

         We are really really glad that Cascabel had an overall good experience in Boston!

         And no, it does not hurt to have the certification letter from Social Security.
         steve
338. Scot says:

     May 30, 2014 at 1:23 am

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     Reply
339. aboomerabroad says:

     May 30, 2014 at 12:48 pm

     Steve, I thought that you still have to show proof of net worth or income after 4 years to go from temp to perm?

     Also, is the temp travel restriction free like the perm?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 30, 2014 at 1:07 pm

       Hi Boomer,
       Nope, it is not a federal nor a nationwide requirement – 4 continuous successful years of temporary residency is sufficient. There are some INM offices that have been adding their own local requirements – so, check with your local INM office for their local eccentricities…
       steve

       Reply
340. aboomerabroad says:

     May 30, 2014 at 1:19 pm

     Steve, thanks. How about travel restrictions on temp during years 2 through 4?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       June 2, 2014 at 8:42 am

       There are none. Travel at will

       This may be difficult for US residents to believe, because Mexico’s policy is so very very different than the USA’s rules, where even US’s Permanent Residents have strict travel restrictions.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • aboomerabroad says:

         June 2, 2014 at 9:41 am

         I was told by a Mexican immigration lawyer that travel is limited to 6 months a year during temp.
       • yucalandia says:

         June 2, 2014 at 12:05 pm

         Fortunately, he’s wrong or there’s confusion in the communications. No restrictions – but you do have to be in Mexico for the RT card renewals.
341. aboomerabroad says:

     June 2, 2014 at 9:43 am

     Steve, how long has the Phoenix consulate been taking to process changes from temp to perm after less than the 4? Any idea? Portland and Miami state they need 10 business days.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       June 2, 2014 at 12:04 pm

       Last word I heard (3 months ago) was 3-4 days. Check with them though… stuff changes.

       Reply
342. Mac says:

     June 8, 2014 at 9:10 am

     In 2015 my Residente Temporal (was FM3) expires. I have a non NAFTA car, was imported into the US from Germany. I understand that if go to Residente Permanente I would have to return the car to the US as it can not be plated here in Mexico.
     As I read above it appears that I can apply for a new Residente Temporal which would allow me to keep the car in Mexico? Return to the border every 6 months to renew my temporary vehicle permit?
     Thanks for comments.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       June 8, 2014 at 3:18 pm

       Hi Mac,
       Your understandings are close to being correct.

       How many total years will you have completed in 2015, when your RT visa expires in 2015? If it is less than 4 total years of this current temporary residence permit (see the back of your RT card), then you renew your RT for up to a total of 4 years, and notify Aduana of your RT’s new expiration date – to extend your TIP expiration date to match/

       If your current visa completes 4 years next year, then you’ll likely have to leave Mexico to apply for a new RT by applying at a Mexican Consulate. When you leave Mexico to get a new RT, turn in your TIP and get a new 6 month one – return to Mexico to complete the RT process at your local INM office, and then notify Aduana to extend your TIP to match the new RT visa expiration date.
       steve

       Reply
       • markemmer says:

         June 8, 2014 at 3:45 pm

         Steve — how does he get a new 6 month TIP with a new RT from a consulate? The folks I know who got RT at a consulate were given a 30-day TIP at the border to match the 30-days they have on their FMM to perform the CANJE.
         Mark
       • yucalandia says:

         June 8, 2014 at 5:01 pm

         Hi Mark,
         You are correct about past Aduana policies, where for about a year and a half, Aduana only gave 30 day TIPs to RT applicants returning to Mexico to complete the RT process. They have recognized that “issue”, and changed to give out 6 month TIPs to RT’s coming into Mexico (under the CANJE process) to finish their INM visa process – especially to those who apply online for their TIP.

         This is one of those cases where the previous CANJE experiences don’t fit current reality. It also show how messy and confusing the inconsistent policies have been.

         Every 6 months we get beyond that Nov. 2012 INM regulatory changes, policies shift to generally improve things.
         An exception to this tendency/trend is that some INM offices and some Consulates are now requiring RP applicants to have previously completed 4 years of a temporary permit. *bleah*
         steve
343. markemmer says:

     June 8, 2014 at 5:38 pm

     Steve, a friend here in Michoacán came in about 10 days ago (I think at Nogales) with his fresh consulate RT in hand. They would only give him a 30 day TIP on his RV, so he’s now sweating whether he can get the Canja completed and make the trip over to aduana in Querétaro before the TIP expires and he loses his $400 deposit. It seems, unsurprisingly, that getting a 6 month TIP hasn’t yet propagated to the far corners of the empire. From what you describe, he probably should have gotten the TIP online. I’ll recommend that to others I know who are entering the consulate RT pipeline and plan to drive.
     Thanks for the heads up.
     Mark

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       June 9, 2014 at 6:34 am

       Hi Mark,
       Good good report.
       Some things are still messy and inconsistent within the INM and Aduana loops for us.
       The person we know who got the 6 month TIP (to complete their Canje) came through Nuevo Laredo and applied for the TIP online.
       steve

       Reply

344. Pingback: Alternate Way of Getting a New Residente Temporal Permit after 4 Years | Surviving Yucatan

345. civillawny.com says:

     July 10, 2014 at 8:43 am

     I like the valuable info you provide in your articles. I’ll bookmark your weblog and check again here frequently.
     I’ve learned lots of valuable stuff here.
     Best of luck.

     Reply
346. Joe says:

     July 14, 2014 at 3:17 pm

     Steve, I wonder if you’ve heard what remedy may exist in this situation- Canadian enters Mexico as a tourist, visa free, and a stay of 14 days is noted on their FMM at passport control, even though it was their intention to stay approximately five months, and their return ticket showed that. They didn’t notice the 14 day notation at the time and don’t know even now why this was done (not having 180 days noted on the FMM by immigration upon entry. They have been here more than three months, at this point, and just noticed this oddity when the subject was brought up by another traveler. What if any thing can they do, or should they do, at this point?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 15, 2014 at 10:27 am

       Hi Joe,
       Go to your INM office and get it cleared-up. They can issue/extend the visitante visa to 6 months total, but they may (or may not) charge a small penalty. It should be fine,
       steve

       Reply
347. alex says:

     August 5, 2014 at 12:54 am

     Good morning. I have a question. Please help me with advice.
     i’m Residente Temporal and is my first year, (Familiar) so i’m in civil union with Mexican Citizen.
     We are in union almost a year and he wants to divorce. What will INM do if i will divorce? Can i divorce and make another civil union within 3 month by Mexican law without getting any issue?

     Once again thank you very much

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 5, 2014 at 9:46 am

       Alex,
       Excellent question. We’re not familiar with the state laws on this. Your renewal of the RT is theoretically based on maintaining your Familiar status, so INM could choose to require you to re-qualify using your own personal fiscal solvency documents – but INM does have local discretion, so, your local office has the right to renew your current RT with or without proof of financial solvency.

       Divorce and civil unions are state matters, and we have no idea what your state’s rules are on this. e.g. Yucatan has very different rules than D.F.: Ask at your state’s Registro Civil office,
       steve

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         August 5, 2014 at 11:15 am

         That will be an interesting thing to find out. Please let us know.

         A few years ago, I considered getting rights as husband of a Mexican citizen. I obtained a copy of Mexican laws for Extranjeros. At that time, the law was very explicit. If your marriage broke up by any means, your status was lost. You either had to leave, or as you say qualify by another means. The law (or rules, I forget) very explicitly said so.

         This is relevant to me because my wife and I are 72, and I do have Temporary Resident by Family Unity. For that, I had no financial evidence required, though I would have qualified anyway.

         I am still young. (Heh, heh.) So, if I had to, in the worst possible case, I could make border runs. But, let us hope my wife outlives me.
       • yucalandia says:

         August 5, 2014 at 2:54 pm

         amen…
348. natjack says:

     August 12, 2014 at 9:43 am

     I just went to the Mexican consulate office in NY to ask about getting a temporary resident visa for lucrative purposes. They told me I need to get prior authorization from INM and get a NUT number and then come back within 10-15 days once I get the authorization from INM. Can I apply for the prior authorization myself with INM or does the company have to do it? They seem to be taking too long and I see there is an solicitud for individuals with offers of employment: http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php/page/Solicitud_de_Autorizacion_Visas
     I know I need an invitation letter – I already am getting that.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 12, 2014 at 11:03 am

       Hi natjack,
       Unfortunately, Consulates are NOT part of INM and as such, many Consulate clerks do NOT know INM law. What they have told you is incorrect. Since you are not currently a Mexican Resident, you start the process at a Mexican Consulate.

       You can have your Mexican employer attempt to start the process for you (from Mexico), but some INM offices do not allow this. Have your Mexican employer find out your local INM office’s rules on this, and follow them.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
349. Pitt says:

     August 14, 2014 at 6:31 pm

     Temporary residency is granted to concubinos and they need the constancia de concubinato. Where does the two years of living together rule fit in? Is it that the constancia de concubinato proves the relationship has been continuous a minimum of two years and then the INM application can be lodged? Thanks

     Reply
350. Helen says:

     August 16, 2014 at 10:54 am

     Hi Steve

     I have my Permanent Resident Card, and left Mexico with all the appropriate paperwork for re-entry. During the time I have been in Canada, I needed to renew my passport – so now I have a new passport, though I also kept my expired passport that I used when I exited. From your experience what do you think I need to do?

     Thanks for all your help (we got our permanent residency with your guidance!)

     Helen

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 17, 2014 at 8:21 am

       Hi Helen,
       GREAT that you got your permanent residency “on your own”!

       You may need to travel with both passports (as my wife does). Once here in Mexico, you could ask your local INM office how they would like to register your new passport number – or if you drive in, they could possibly do it at the border. I would not try to do it at the limited service INM offices at airports.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
351. KLM says:

     August 19, 2014 at 4:16 pm

     Steve, A question regarding importing personal effects, household goods, etc.
     I have read that some say you must use a broker to import personal property when moving to Mexico. And I have read just the opposite too. I know that upon getting the consulate approval for a PR visa you can also get a form to allow a 1 time import of household goods. Can you clear that up for me? My intent is to load my truck and a small trailer and make the 1 way trip to my house in Nayarit. Once there I’ll go to the local INM office and start the PR visa hassle. After getting everything done and have received my card I’ll take my vehicle and trailer back to the U.S. and be rid of them. I already have a vehicle that is MX plated and just don’t want to deal with the time and expense of getting MX plates on my U.S. truck and trailer.
     Thanks for any info you can supply!
     Kirk

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 19, 2014 at 8:27 pm

       Hi Kirk,
       The answer to your question is in our article on moving to Mexico: What Can I Bring into Mexico: Mexican Customs Rules – The Article at https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/what-can-i-bring-into-mexico-mexican-customs-rules-the-article/ focus on the Menaje de Casa subsection.

       The path you are proposing (modest truck and trailerload of personal items driven in by yourself) could be free or have only small taxes or be free. As described in our customs rules for moving to Mexico article, Residents of Mexico (Residente Temporal y Residente Permanente) are allowed to bring in a “load of household goods” for personal use, duty-free and tax-free. 100’s of internet reports from the past 5 years say that many many many times Aduana looks at your Menaje de Casa style list and waves you through with no $$ and no hassles.** Often, Aduana will first look in the back of your load – ask you to open a (numbered) box or 2, and they check the contents of the #’d box versus the Menaje de Casa listed items for that box#. If your box contents match the Menaje de Casa listed contents for that box – BINGO – you’re golden. Many times, Aduana just looks at our personal trailers, inspects the list – keeps a copy of the list for their files, and waves us through.

       **A few caveats to people’s experiences of being waved through duty free: Note that if people who have commercial quantities of things, Aduana has held them up and charged duties on the apparently-commercial items. If people have lots of tools (enough to open a small shop), Aduana has wanted duties (like $300 – $500 USD). When people have had lots of electronics or multiple computers, they may want duties.

       Based on hundreds of people’s personal internet reports from the past 5 years, if you have a good accurate Menaje-de-Casa style list of what’s in your load, and you don’t trigger any of the **caveats, people go through the Nothing to Declare lane, and they often sail through customs with no problems – without having a formal Consulate approved Menaje de Casa list. We do not give advice on what you should do, but simply note the written experiences of many people driving in pickup loads or trailer loads (or like us: a pickup load and trailer load) of personal stuff who report easy, pleasant crossings.
       Enjoy the drive,
       steve

       Reply
       • Paul Carlton says:

         January 27, 2016 at 11:41 am

         Thanks for all the great info you share here. Very much appreciated!!

         Do you know if we’re coming in to an airport (Querétaro) with a bunch of suitcases and a couple boxes if we’ll need to hire a customs broker with that? Or just show the menaje de casa?

         Thanks!
       • yucalandia says:

         January 27, 2016 at 9:00 pm

         Hi Paul,
         If asked: Show the list, smile, and hope for the best.

         If you have electronics … lots of tools … commercial quantities of anything … toys … computer gear, then you may expect to pay some duties.

         steve
352. google says:

     August 21, 2014 at 6:46 am

     May I just say what a relief to uncover somebody who really understands what they are discussing online.
     You certainly realize how to bring a problem to light and make it important.

     More and more people need to look at this and understand this
     side of the story. It’s surprising you aren’t more popular given that you
     most certainly possess the gift.

     Reply
353. Sherri says:

     August 25, 2014 at 8:19 pm

     Thanks for all the info. I will be renewing my RT (from yr. 1 to yr. 2) then need to leave Mex. before the renewal is complete. I know I need to apply for a paper to re-enter Mex. within 60 days. Do you have a link to the paperwork that needs to be completed to apply for this, a sample letter perhaps? I want to be well prepared when I go to apply for this.
     Thank you,
     Sherri

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 25, 2014 at 10:02 pm

       Hi Sherri,
       There is no special format. Just list your name, passport ID number, the NUT and Pieza numbers for your current application, the NUE of your last RT card. Explain when you are traveling and why. Request permission to leave Mexico. Promise that everything you have written is the truth (as shown in letters above).

       When you leave Mexico and when you return, be sure to have INM agents stamp your letter to document both exiting and entering. Your application renewal often goes “on hold” while you are traveling.
       steve

       Reply
354. Sherri says:

     August 25, 2014 at 10:31 pm

     Thanks for the quick reply but where are the letters you write are shown above.
     Sherri

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 26, 2014 at 7:16 am

       Hi Sherri,
       Near the top of the article is a block of BLUE text that is a table of contents for all the basic topics in the article. Click on the one that says: “~ An Example Letter for applying for renewing a Residente Temporal”

       It will take you to an example letter at: https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Here%20is%20an%20Example%20Letter%20for%20applying%20for%20renewing%20a%20Residente%20Temporal

       This example gives you a general format, where you substitute your own statement of purpose,
       steve

       Reply
355. thaer nasief says:

     September 3, 2014 at 10:24 am

     Hello
     My name is Thaer Elias nasief is married and I have two sons
     I am a Christian from Syria Msa iddah I hope to get a visa to live in Mexico
     Thank you

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 3, 2014 at 1:32 pm

       Hello Thaer,
       Good Luck,
       steve

       Reply
356. D. Frank says:

     September 12, 2014 at 1:19 pm

     First of all, I want to thank you for your wonderful site filled with the nitty gritty of bureaucracy in Mexico. My question has to do with the temporary residency visa. If a Mexican company fills out the employment form, is it difficult to get the visa allowing you to work in Mexico? All the best, Dawn

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 12, 2014 at 5:37 pm

       Hi Dawn,
       I can only speak to our experiences here in Merida, and some stories told by about 5-10 other people from around Mexico.

       Here in Merida, they have been both helpful and easy to work with, giving us clear detailed instructions on what documents are needed.

       The other reports from the internet I’ve read over the past years, say that other offices similarly treat Residente Temporals well when applying for permission to work. Some INM offices insist that you have your RFC first, while their associated SAT offices say you need INM approval first. (a Catch 22)
       steve

       Reply
357. Lashawn says:

     September 19, 2014 at 12:16 pm

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     Reply
358. Angela says:

     September 27, 2014 at 9:17 am

     My partner and I stumbled over here from a different web
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     so now i am following you. Look forward to exploring your web page again.

     Reply

359. Pingback: More Changes to Mexican Immigration Law Coming October 17, 2014 | Surviving Yucatan

360. Susan says:

     October 10, 2014 at 1:49 pm

     Hi Steve. Do you know if I can apply for a “cambio de condición de estancia – residente temporal a residente permanente” at anytime during the year if I meet the income/asset requirements or do I have to wait until them temporary resident is near the expiration (30 days prior)? Do you know if it matters if it is the first year of temporary resident?

     Thanks.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 13, 2014 at 4:35 pm

       Hi Susan,
       As I wrote earlier, this can depend on your local INM offices policies.

       I double checked at our Merida office this morning, and they said that we can apply for the change in estancia during the 30 days before the expiration of the current RT visa.
       steve

       Reply

361. Pingback: Mexican Immigration Changes « Ensenada Gringo

362. Cate Poe says:

     October 15, 2014 at 1:06 pm

     I just went through the process of going straight from tourist to permanente and posted a link to your site, which was part of my research. Sharing my story here: http://50.87.144.90/~catepoe/going-permanente-mexico/ 

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 15, 2014 at 5:19 pm

       Congrats!

       Well done, steve

       Reply
363. Paamul Sue says:

     November 4, 2014 at 4:04 am

     Our 4 year Residente temporal expires in a couple of days. We are in Mexico and have decided NOT to go to Permanente as we will never be here longer than 180 days in a year. We are also heading home for a couple of weeks at Xmas in 6 wks. a) if we just let it expire will we be assessed a fine when we leave Dec 15? b) should we go into our local Playa del Carmen INM office and try to change to an FMM or c) should we take a quick trip to Chetemul and re enter on an FMM?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 4, 2014 at 11:27 am

       Hi Sue,
       Yes, expired Residente Temporal permit holders are given a fine when they fly out – and the size of the fine depends on the mood of the INM agent. In theory, they can charge us $50 pesos a day for expired permits. Sometimes the assess the whole amount ( 6 weeks x $350 pesos per person per week = $2,100 pesos per person), while other times they pick some seemingly arbitrary amount like $400 – $600 pesos to airline travelers. People driving out are not assessed any fine – as they do not have to “check-out” when driving out of Mexico.

       The best and legal way is to go to Chetumal, and turn in your INM permit at the INM kiosk (little office) – and get new FMMs without even leaving Mexico. They can also process your TIP (auto permit) there (at Banjercito) if you need it done there – just across the street from the INM window.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
364. Paamul Sue says:

     November 4, 2014 at 11:36 am

     Thank you so much. We have a mexican plated car so don’t need to worry about a TIP. We will go to Chetumal tomorrow. Thanks again.

     Reply
365. Paamul Sue says:

     November 5, 2014 at 7:36 pm

     A follow up. We drove to Chetumal today. Even though our Residental Temporal expired 05 Nov my husband and I argued that we shouldn’t have to pay a fine as it didn’t expired until midnight tonight. So no, we didn’t have to pay anything. They issued us our FMM’s. However our friends that were with us who had expired RT permits –one paid 2000 pesos, the other couple 1000 each. We all got 180 day FMM’s. No receipts were given for those that paid a ‘fine’. So if you can get to the border BEFORE that permit expires.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 6, 2014 at 10:03 am

       Excellent updates.
       steve

       Reply

366. Pingback: Turn in Your Mexican Residente Temporal Visa by the Expiration Date | Surviving Yucatan

367. Susan says:

     November 9, 2014 at 5:48 pm

     Regarding the expired RT, did they come back in within the 55-day grace period?
     I left Mexico by air in July. My RT was going to expire in August. I told the INM official and she told me I had a 55-day grace period because I had planned to turn in my RT. I reapplied at the MX Consulate in the USA for RT a few days after my RT expired. The Mexican Consulate also told me there was a 55-day grace period and did not process my paperwork since I was planning to return to Mexico within the 55 days. I was in my 4th year of RT and a few days later was told by an individual in Mexico who processes INM papers that there is no grace period when you are going from temporary to permanent. With this news, I went back to the MX Consulate and told the representative what I was told. She contacted an individual/friend in INM who confirmed that so she processed me and I came back in with those documents and processed my new RT within 30 days. However, I am still under the impression that if you are renewing a RT that there is a 55-day grace period.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 10, 2014 at 8:03 am

       Hi Susan,
       Excellent point about the 55 day grace period.

       The grace period is for people who want to renew their RT. These people with the INM problems wanted to surrender their RTs and switch to Visitors visas.

       Further, these people also had their problems at border INM offices. When we want to renew, border INM offices are not allowed to process renewals – as renewals are done at your local INM office.

       Hope that explains things,
       steve

       Reply
368. Paamul Sue says:

     November 10, 2014 at 8:21 am

     Those that went to the Belize border were in Mexico when their permits expired and were WITHIN the 55 day grace period. (only expired a week or two). I don’t believe the grace period applies IF you are already in Mexico but not sure.

     Reply
     • Susan says:

       November 18, 2014 at 6:59 pm

       Yes, the 55-day grace period for a RT renewal is only for those out of the country.

       Reply

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371. Tom says:

     November 16, 2014 at 9:54 pm

     Hi, I am from the UK and have lost my 1 year visa to be in Mexico. I arrived in January and am leaving in just over 3 weeks. I have been advised to go to the agencia del turista to get a constancia del hechos and all I need to take along is my passport a week before I am due to leave. I am just a little concerned as I do not have a photocopy or anything of the original Visa and whether this is going to cause me problems leaving the country and whether it is going to cost me any money??

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 17, 2014 at 9:56 am

       Hi Tom,
       The local INM offices have broad latitude/discretion in how they handle these issues.

       Here in Merida, our INM office previously required that you go to the Fiscalia Publica office for the State of Yucatan, and have them certify that you are the person shown in your passport – and you would take the State of Yucatan’s identity certification document back to INM, and they charged $800 pesos or so for a replacement copy of your visa.

       Other INM offices had different requirements – and smaller or no fees. Your tourist office may be correct, but they are not the final arbitrator/judge of your situation – so, I would check with your INM office. (because you really would not want to get to the airport to fly out, and find out you can’t get onto the plane – and have to reschedule all your travel plans)

       All the best,
       steve

       Reply
372. playaright says:

     November 25, 2014 at 8:36 am

     FIRST INM OFFICE TRIP – for CANJE process Residente PERMANENTE issued at a Consulate:

     Hello Steve, We are now going to make our first appearance at the INM office with our new ‘residente permanante’ visas issued in Canada. I can not seem to find a concise explanation of what is needed. I have looked back and no one mentions the ‘online application step’, though I just checked and it seems that our FMM (30 days) should be ‘canjear reponer’ online first, get the NUE etc and then present ourselves at INM with pictures, money etc. Other sites say just show up with money and pictures, does anyone know the procedure for the “canje process” when going from a NEW residente PERMANENTE issued outside of Mexico?

     Reply
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       November 26, 2014 at 10:03 am

       My limited experience over several years and different statuses is that when you get your paperwork done on-line, it will tell you what you need. But, this is Mexico so don’t count on it, jijiji.

       Reply
373. Bruce McGovern says:

     November 26, 2014 at 10:04 am

     Forgot, the first time you go to the office, for sure they will tell you what to bring next time, at least in Puebla.

     Reply

374. Pingback: The visa process for Mexico changed dramatically in 2013! | The Peripatetic Retiree

375. esposa de cascabel says:

     December 16, 2014 at 9:21 am

     RE Steven Fry’s comments on the Boston Consulate posted Dec.14, 2014:

     I am the spouse of Cascabel and wanted to comment further on Steve’s response to his post. First, I’d like to thank Steve and the other bloggers who have provided us with essential information as we seek permanent resident status in Mexico.

     I have some additional information and clarifications which I hope will help others going through this process:

     1. We didn’t consider the Boston consul rigid but rather trying to help us avoid problems once we take the next steps in Mexico. After all, we have only 30 days to complete the application process once there, and it will be very frustrating if we lack any needed documents that we could have brought with us. Even if we take far more than we need, we think it’s best to be hyper-prepared.

     2. My documentation of assets was more compelling to the officer than my husband’s because my accounts were listed as retirement accounts, verifying that I am indeed retired, whereas his were not. Since we were entering under the provision for retirees, this was important.

     3. Steve mentions getting a verification letter from Social Security that we are receiving benefits. This is not what the Boston consul asked us for, but rather a letter from our bank that SS deposits were being made regularly to our bank accounts. Each of us wrote up a simple draft and requested a letter from our separate banks verifying that the deposits were being made. This took only a few minutes.

     4. The Boston consul didn’t refer to other consulates in the US at all. Her comments about assembling further documentation applied only to the next steps in the procedure once we are in Mexico. It seemed that she had received differing reports about what might be required and wanted us to be fully prepared wherever we might be completing the process.

     Good luck to all those applying for visa status in Mexico. We will supply further information about our future experience in the Mexican office.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 16, 2014 at 6:01 pm

       WONDERFUL!

       Happy Holidays,
       steve

       Reply
       • cascabel says:

         February 28, 2015 at 10:13 am

         Update on tramites for Residente Permanente card:

         When we arrived Jan 1 at the Cancun Airport, the immigration agent who handled us appeared to be about 25 years old. I made sure to immediately point out the Permanent Resident visas from the Boston Consulate glued into the back of our passports. He stared doubtfully at my visa for a while, then at his computer screen, then returned to staring at the visa. Finally he excused himself and took my passport to the neighboring stall and had a 2-minute conversation with the officer there. That being insufficient, he then took my passport to yet another officer and had another long conversation there. Bingo! He returned to his own stall and got to work. I asked him in Spanish if this was the first time he had seen such a visa, and he sheepishly admitted that no, it was the second.

         He proceeded to do everything correctly, marking our FMM stub “CANJE, 30 days” (We checked then and there to be sure), and helpfully reminded us we needed to begin the rest of the process within 30 days.

         We finished the process in Progreso. The agent there, a very nice woman who spoke excellent English, did not ask for any financial documents, so the extra documents we brought with us from Boston were unnecessary. We did show up with our passports, the FMM stub, a CFE receipt, and the on-line basic application form (formato basico) that we had printed out. She took our data; we paid the $4000+ MXN fee; and she said we would be notified by email when to return.

         About 4 days later came the notfication that the applications had been accepted and we could return to the Progreso office. On this second visit we had our fingerprints taken, delivered the required photos, and had a brief interview about our educational background, work history, etc. At the end she gave us official documents indicating how to follow the progress of our applications online. About 3 weeks later the website indicated the Residente Permanente cards were ready to be picked up.

         The Progreso office of INM was wonderful. The staff were unfailingly friendly and helpful. We had to Wait in line for 30 min. the first visit, but on the subsequent 2 visits we were the only clients and we were immediately attended to.
       • yucalandia says:

         February 28, 2015 at 11:43 am

         cascabel,
         Yeeee Haw !

         Well done !
         steve
376. Lena says:

     December 24, 2014 at 12:42 pm

     Hello Steve,
     I just found your website and am very impressed. You have some great info, thank you. I am planning to do the 180 day visitor trips, returning to the border every 6 months and then back. Since I will be establishing a rented house there, I would like to bring some household articles like cooking utinsils by car. Will they let me bring those in along with my personal items like clothing? Are there fees attached to that at the border?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 24, 2014 at 8:21 pm

       Hi Lena,
       Generally Americans and Canadians driving in are allowed to bring in used household goods without paying duties or taxes to Aduana.

       If you bring in electronics, or lots of tools, or commercial quantities of things (enough to start a small business), then those may be assessed duties.

       This information and other details on importing things into Mexico are covered on our main article on Customs Rules at: https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/what-can-i-bring-into-mexico-mexican-customs-rules-the-article/

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply

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378. Pascal Bruyer says:

     December 30, 2014 at 7:15 pm

     I am Pascal , a Belgian, married already 6.5 years with Mexican woman have a 5 year old son (Mexican and Belgian) , still Residente Permanente familiar done in Mexico City wich knowing I can have option Mexican Citizen. We want to change the Residente Permanente card because we want to move it to Cozumel to live in appartment I bought , I still pay Fidecomisso . Will That make a problem asking the New Residente Permanente Card (New ResidentiCozumel) after more tan 90 days? We have more tan 90 days because when we asked before the Naturalisation in Mexico City , for some reason it did not happened (Family). And also , Have a new Belgian International Pasport and with a new Belgian law they changed a part of my surname like example Pascal Elis Brunk Geldof into Pascal Elis B. Geldof. Is it nessacery to report this to Immigration and Fidecomisso (With a original document of Belgian Ambassy with explanation that I am same person) ? What is the best way ? Does it matter to our Mexican Marriage papera and Birthact of son and Tiltile off property?
     (6,5 years married Mexican woman and son 5 years Mexican and Belgian).

     Thank you very much !

     Pascal.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 31, 2014 at 1:08 am

       Hi Pascal,
       Your story is so involved, with many questions, that I am going to re-post your comments, and insert my best attempts at answers ~ in italics ~ :

       I am Pascal , a Belgian, married already 6.5 years with Mexican woman have a 5 year old son (Mexican and Belgian) , still Residente Permanente familiar done in Mexico City wich knowing I can have option Mexican Citizen. We want to change the Residente Permanente card because we want to move it to Cozumel to live in appartment I bought ,
       ~ There is no legal requirement to change the card because you are moving. ~
       ~ You are required to notify INM that you have changed your address. ~

       I still pay Fidecomisso . Will That make a problem asking the New Residente Permanente Card (New ResidentiCozumel) after more tan 90 days? We have more tan 90 days because when we asked before the Naturalisation in Mexico City , for some reason it did not happened (Family).
       ~ There is no legal requirement to change the card because you are moving. ~
       ~ You are required to notify INM that you have changed your address within 90 days after moving. ~

       And also , Have a new Belgian International Pasport and with a new Belgian law they changed a part of my surname like example Pascal Elis Brunk Geldof into Pascal Elis B. Geldof. Is it nessacery to report this to Immigration and Fidecomisso (With a original document of Belgian Ambassy with explanation that I am same person) ?
       ~ You are required to notify INM that your legal name has changed, ESPECIALLY if/when you attempt to apply for Mexican citizenship.
       ~ Both SRE and INM require that you have a NEW and APOSTILLED birth certificate issued by your home country (Belgium) using your NEW NAME ~
       and …
       ~ that new birth certificate and apostille documents must be translated into Spanish by an approved translator. ~
       and
       ~ You are required to notify INM in writing that you have changed your address, and get them to issue A NEW RESIDENTE PERMANENTE VISA/Card with your NEW NAME . ~ $$$

       What is the best way ? Does it matter to our Mexican Marriage papera and Birthact of son and Tiltile off property?
       (6,5 years married Mexican woman and son 5 years Mexican and Belgian).
       ~ Talk with the bank that holds your Fideicomiso, and ask them what is needed to change in the legal trust documents (Fideicomiso) because of your name change. ~

       Thank you very much !

       Pascal.
       
       Feliz Navidad y Prospero Año Nuevo,
       steve

       Reply

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381. Joshua G says:

     February 12, 2015 at 5:54 pm

     What a great site! I am in search of an example letter for the initial request for Residente Temporal. I searched hard and long on this site and the rest of the web to no avail. I know what the letter should include, just would like a more specific template if possible. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks so much.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 12, 2015 at 9:17 pm

       Mérida, Yucatán a (ENTER DATE HERE)
       Asunto: Solicitud de una visa de Residente Temporal
       Delegado de Merida INM (or enter NAME & ADDRESS OF YOUR INM OFFICIAL)
       Instituto Nacional de Migración Delegación Regional en Yucatán
       Av. Colón Núm 507 por Calle 8
       Mérida, Yucatán, México C.P. 97070

       Distinguido Delegado,
       Por medio de la presente, yo, NAME OF APPLICANT AS SHOWN ON PASSPORT, solicito una visa de Residente Temporal. Adjunto copias de los documentos solicitados para este trámite. Le agradezco por anticipado la atención prestada a la presente solicitud, esperando contar con el otorgamiento del cambio de condición de estancia.

       Bajo protesta de decir verdad.

       Atentamente,
       .
       APPLICANT SIGNATURE – sign here
       .
       Type/enter APPLICANT NAME

       APPLICANT’S ADDRESS

       Calle (ENTER ADDRESS) Col. (ENTER NEIGHBORHOOD)
       Enter City, State, Country

       Tel. domicilio (ENTER HOME PHONE)
       Cel. (ENTER CELL PHONE)
       Coreo Electronico: (ENTER EMAIL ADDRESS)

       Reply
       • Joshua G says:

         February 14, 2015 at 9:19 pm

         wow! You are the bomb! Thanks for such a speedy and precise reply. Very very much appreciated!
382. sadalowe says:

     February 18, 2015 at 9:24 pm

     Hi,

     I’ve done my best to read everything and I can’t see my question answered, but forgive me if I’ve missed something!

     If you’re from a country that can just get the FMM on arrival (eg Australia) and you are travelling to Mex for business purposes paid by a non-Mexican entity, can you get the Visitor permit with permission for remunerated activities at the aiport? I.e. will they either give you an FMM with or without permiso para actividades remuneradas? Or is getting the visitante with permission a separate application that has to occur in a consulate?

     Or, as long as not paid by a Mexican entity, can you conduct basically any work activities as a business visitor on a FMM without permission for remunerated activities?

     Thanks for your help, I can’t find information that addresses working for a foreign company anywhere and have had no help from the local consulate!

     Reply
383. sadalowe says:

     February 18, 2015 at 9:31 pm

     Hi,
     I’ve done my best to read everything and I can’t see my question answered, but forgive me if I’ve missed something!

     If you’re from a country that can just get the FMM on arrival (eg Australia) and you are travelling to Mex for business purposes paid by a non-Mexican overseas entity, can you get the Visitor permit with permission for remunerated activities at the aiport? I.e. will they give you an FMM either with or without permiso para actividades remuneradas depending on your circumstances? Or is getting the visitor permit with permission a separate application that has to occur in a consulate pre-departure?

     Or can you conduct basically any work activities as a business visitor on a FMM without permission for remunerated activities as long as you are not paid by a Mexican entity?

     Thanks for your help, I can’t find information that addresses working for a foreign company anywhere on the net and have had no help from the local consulate!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 19, 2015 at 9:23 am

       Hi Sadalowe,
       There is no straightforward answer to your question, because Mexico has different rules for different countries.

       Since 2010, Mexico did regularize their visa rules for foreign visitors who want to work while in Mexico to create some uniformity … by our understanding: If they HAVE A VALID VISA for the USA:
       ” … all those foreign nationals, regardless of their nationality, visiting Mexico for tourist, business or transit matters won’t need a Mexican visa as long as they have with them a valid and not expired USA visa in the passport. In this context, if you have a valid US visa in the passport you do not need to obtain a Mexican visa. …” ???

       http://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/sanfrancisco/index.php/visas-traveling-to-mexico

       Otherwise, you have to check your country’s visa-treaty/visa-agreement with Mexico,
       steve

       Reply
384. Caroline says:

     February 27, 2015 at 11:00 pm

     I have been told by the LA Mexican Consulate, by email, that proof of solvency for an application for either Temporal or Permanente permits requires foreign, non-Mexican bank statements/investment statements. This is because, they said, applicants for these permits via a Consulate are assumed to never have lived in Mexico except under Tourist status.

     I have been living in Mexico since July 2010, from Feb 2011 with FM3 and then with Temporal Residence as from Feb 2013. My finances have necessarily had to move to Mexico due to not having residence in another country and therefore rights to invest money in that country, also for much greater convenience. Am British national. Lived in California for nearly 10 years. Unfortunately my Temporal expired by one day before I found out that one has no time after expiration in which to apply to obtain a Permanente card. On the suggestion of the local INM office I was directed to seek options at a Consulate, and after informing the LA Consulate that my records pertained to a well known bank in Mexico, I was turned away.

     All the websites I have read, including this one, which refer to proof of solvency, do not mention anything about where the bank/financial institutions may/must be located. Any comments? I would like to see if there is anything written in the law about geographical location of assets to which applications to be either Temporal or Permanente refer or if it is completely ambiguous/non-specific, as all the websites I have read are. If I missed something on this website, my apologies! Thanks!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 28, 2015 at 12:21 am

       Hi Caroline,
       The LA Consulate is just making things up.

       There is NOTHING in the law to support their local (goofy) ideas. If they won’t budge, I would us a different Consulate.

       Other Residente Temporal/Permanente applicants having problems with their local Mexican Consulates making up bogus policies, have had some success by directing their local confused consulate clerks to the Mexican Embassy website in Washington DC. When the local clerks read the Embassy’s official policies (which fit published Mexican law), the local consulate managers have backed-down (so far).

       For the USA: http://embamex.sre.gob.mx/eua/ (though I could not find their specific page of requirements)
       For Canada: http://embamex.sre.gob.mx/canada_eng/index.php?option=com_content&id=5343%3Atemporary-resident-visa&Itemid=29
       steve

       Reply
385. RC says:

     March 3, 2015 at 9:31 pm

     Does anyone have a copy of a Carta de Poder to authorize a family member or friend to pick up my resident card? What else is needed when doing this? thanks

     Reply
386. Tropical21 says:

     March 6, 2015 at 7:21 pm

     I’m using the Cancun office. Thank you for your hard work

     Reply
387. tropical21 says:

     March 12, 2015 at 4:59 pm

     Just wanted to know if anyone has experience with the vincula familiar program being married to a Mexican citizen? I turned in my paperwork about 2 weeks ago, yesterday I received an email from INM asking that I provide them with:1. economic solvency and 2. the original and copy of the receipt when I paid for the FMM (tourist permit). I can understand about the solvency as they are fully within their right for that, but what would be sufficient to show? bank accounts? retirement accounts? I’m in my late 20’s and have a good 401k and a decent amount of savings.

     my main gripe here is the original and copy of receipt for the FMM. wtf?! I went through them 2 days and 3 times. the second time I was told I only messed up one thing on the application and that was all that needed to be fixed. went the next day and the officer looked over everything, never EVER mentioned the receipt. now I DONT have it as I threw it away assuming I didn’t need it? is there anything I can do?! a lawyer said that they might be able to help me or make me “pay again” for a receipt.

     if this doesn’t work my application is canceled if I cant get the documents in 10 days. if I get canceled and end up going to another INM office in my wife’s town as we have been thinking about living with her family instead of on my own, will I have problems if I leave to the US, come back, get a new FMM and reapply?

     any help would be great thanks.

     Reply
388. Bruce McGovern says:

     March 12, 2015 at 5:33 pm

     I am preparing to go to Puebla INM tomorrow, so don’t have time to find the Gob page I closed after having it open for a week. I am family unity temporary resident, just this week renewed the first time. Next year, I change to permanent resident, and have to do something about my car.

     Anyway, I did have the official regulations open in a tab. It said you must show 300 days minimum salary per month. Someone here can help you find the current minimum salary in Mexico City, which is the legal basis for all sorts of fees and fines and income requirements.

     it comes out to more than 1000 dollars, but far less than 2000 dollars.

     And, it said it must be income from something like bank investments. Not amount of savings as I read it but the income from the bank or other financial investment.

     Or, of course pension income or Social Security.

     I can meet those requirements. And I took all the documents with me to Puebla when I applied last year. And I took them with me this year.

     AND THEY NEVER ASKED ME FOR THEM! NOT LAST YEAR. NOT THIS YEAR.

     Next week, if I remember I will dig through my lengthy browser history and see if I can find that. YOu might Google yourself.

     I understand why the income req. for retirees etc. But, in Mexico the family takes care of the family members. It would seem consistent to require the family to show it can take care of the person, rather than have the same income requirement at a lower level than retirees who must care for themselves.

     Well, it’s their nation so it’s their rules, I guess

     You might have to be a 180 day visitor, and every 180 days run to the border. But, what a nuisance!

     Reply
389. Tropical21 says:

     March 12, 2015 at 6:05 pm

     Well what a mess. Glad you got it. It never said anything about showing solvency for family unity… From what I have read on here and other sites is that it is basically waived. I can understand them wanting to see I’m not destitute so im not upset about that but im just curious as to how much I’ll need to show…

     This has definitely been an experience… We will see what they say on Tuesday

     Reply
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       March 12, 2015 at 10:57 pm

       If they follow the rules I saw it will be 67.29 pesos times 300 = 20187 pesos. If the conversion is 15 pesos to one dollar, that will be $1345.80 USD. You need to use the official conversion rate, etc.

       I said 67.29 because that is waht Rolly Brooks says it is. I have seen figures from 66+ to 70. There is an official gob website which gives the official figures but I am running out of time and have to go to sleep for an early start tomorrow.

       I feel for you. Here I waltz in and they don’t even ask. And, you are nervous you might not be able to qualify. Generally, in Mexico the laws usually are what the person on the other side of the desk says they are, with minimal possibility of appeal.

       But, try anything. If your spouse owns a house, try that on them. If your spouse has income, present that. What do you have to lose now?

       Yes, your 401K, even if they imply that doesn’t count. Try it.

       And/or look for a good immigration attorney. Sometimes they can figure out solutions we foreigners cannot.

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         March 13, 2015 at 7:21 am

         Hi Guys,
         Readers should know that Rolly Brook had been sick for a while, and has died – meaning the data in his website has not been updated for last fall’s Mex. Gob. rule changes.

         Our article has the current information above in the subsection on income or savings requirements for RT ($70.1 pesos per day):

         ~ Current Rules and Procedures for Immigration ~ Immigrating to, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico

         Using Savings/investments: “Provide 12 months of original bank or investment account statements (plus copies) as proof savings/investments, to show minimum Average Monthly Balance amounts equivalent to 5,000 days of the general minimum wage in the District Federal for the previous twelve months (70.10 pesos for 2015) => $350,500 pesos or $25,500 US”
         or
         Using Monthly Income: “~ Have minimum pension or salary deposits/income that is the equivalent of Monthly income of 300 days minimum wage of the current minimum wage in the Federal District (70.10 pesos) $21,030 pesos or about $1,530 US, per the 10/10/2014 Lineamientos for Mexican Consulates (reduced from the previous “four hundred days worth” listed in the previous INM Lineamientos) , reported for each of the previous six months – with original and copies of original bank statement for one Residente Temporal.”

         The final USD figures are based on a conservative $13.75 pesos per USD – and the local offices have the right to choose the exchange rate of their choice. If they allow the current $15.5 peso per USD rate, the amounts are loweer.

         The website links for the official daily minimum salary are also listed in that same section of the article (above).
         steve
390. Bruce McGovern says:

     March 12, 2015 at 11:10 pm

     Quick final note. I do not know if you are husband or wife, though perhaps you said so. But, don’t just tell them what income your spouse has, if any. Get a letter from her/his boss, with the carta bajo protesta stating the salary, if any.

     Reply
     • tropical21 says:

       March 13, 2015 at 12:03 am

       thanks bruce, i will see how this pans out. i guess my question is, how would i have income if i am leaving my country and job to go live with my wife? i have plenty of money in terms of savings and retirement and even get some other side income, but just curious . cancun seems like a mess of an office. every time i go in there i have to play musical chairs just to get to someone. and yes the rules are whatever the person on the other side of the desk says they are.

       Reply
391. Tropical21 says:

     March 13, 2015 at 8:23 am

     So would these amounts apply to me also being the spouse of a mexican citizen? Also my father is a permanent resident. My salary from the U.S. was over $75k but now going to mexico I wont have a job for a year or so, so just investment and savings. Well I’ll see what happens and keep you all updated

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 13, 2015 at 8:48 am

       Hi Tropical21,
       The personal fiscal solvency requirements do not officially apply to being the spouse of a Mexican citizen.

       Still, local INM offices have the right to ask for additional documentation not required in the law. In my case and in the cases of 4 other friends with Mexican spouses, INM only asked for a letter from our spouses certifying that we were married and that the spouse would be fiscally responsible for us.

       If you can also show substantial investments/savings, along with the letter from your spouse (assuming that you have a State Registro Civil office approved marriage), then it should all be fine.

       Looking forward to hearing how it worked out,
       steve

       Reply
       • Tropical21 says:

         March 13, 2015 at 4:27 pm

         Yes this sounds reasonable and that shouldn’t be a problem. I’m more concerned about the fact that I don’t have the stupid fmm receipt from the bank! We will see how it works out…
       • yucalandia says:

         March 13, 2015 at 5:02 pm

         Tropical,
         If there is any issue with having INM recognize your legal marriage to your spouse, you could also use the Vinculo Familiar route through your father’s Residente Permanente to qualify.
         steve
392. Bruce McGovern says:

     March 13, 2015 at 9:03 pm

     I am going to tell something that happened in a totally different environment, only as an example in case someone has a problem related to this income situation.

     I worked for 31 years as a union employee for a large international corporation. Note we did not get big money like the automotive unions sometimes did nor big retirement payouts. I retired in the 90’s. The retirement rules had changed. If a spouse did not waiver his/her part of the pension the retiree was by law forced to accept joint survivor retirement, which meant lower monthly payments.

     In some cases, that meant too little income for a family to survive whereas sole survivor would be that much more.

     Of course, a spouse would not want to be penniless if the retiree died. And naturally would not sign off on survivor benefits. Which meant in some cases a man simply could not retire if his wife had no separate pension.

     So, one of the money wise members studied and came up with a plan. The person who wanted to retire would contact an annuity company and buy with cash an annuity which upon the death of the retiree would pay the same amount for the life of the surviving spouse.

     In this case, few spouses would refuse to sign off on survivor’s benefits.

     At one time it looked to me as if the new higher income requirements in Mexico would exceed my combined Soc. Sec. and small pension check. I considered buying an annuity just big enough to get me past the requirements, But as I have noted here that no longer seems to be a problem for me. Just be aware of it as one more option available to you.

     Of course you should not tell all your details online. But something you said implied you have plenty of retirement benefits, yet cannot collect for a short period of years until you reach retirement age, Our retiirement program had the same option but few left before reaching the retirement age.

     For my first 8 years after retiring, I came in on a tourist permit by bus a couple times a year. It really wasn’t that bad as it sounds, with a sleeper bus running all night, except for having to carry several thousand dollars in pesos in my Bean bag. But after retiring we lived in McAllen near the border so that eased the trip. If one has to take a long plane trip, it will be much different.

     The idea is consider all options. Life in Mexico is worth some hassle, at least to me. And, if you are accepted by your spouse’s family as a family member, as I have been, that is about as close to paradise as you can find.

     Like anything, things are hard when you do something new. As time passes you will learn new techniques to make your life in Mexico less hassle.

     Reply
     • tropical21 says:

       April 2, 2015 at 1:10 am

       Well, I figure i should update. I submitted my economic solvency and had to “repay” the fee for the FMM. about a week or two later I was told to show up for fingerprinting. I ended up getting a lawyer that helped another family member of mine, but i think it was worth the money. Anyways, long story short I was told my residente temporal was approved for 2 years, which was apparently very rare in cancun. I am beginning to think this was the reason for them asking for the economic solvency. Anyways, I showed up to get fingerprinted, my lawyer seemed to have everything set up and ready to go. I was in and out of the office within 10 minutes. the immigration official told me that I would be notified in about two weeks or less that my card was ready to pick up. When I have the card in my hand I will raise my glass for a “Salud” with all who have come before me in the process. what a mess, but so far so good. Mexico, and especially Quintana Roo is an amazing place to live.

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         April 2, 2015 at 8:05 pm

         Good job. And, thanks for the update. I think we need all the information we can get.
393. Bruce McGovern says:

     April 2, 2015 at 9:02 pm

     When I got my Family Unity temporary residency card renewed again in Puebla, I asked about being able to apply for nationality after two years as a Temporary Resident Family Unity.

     I was told that would be a different office. Specifically Secretaria de Relaciones Exteriores. And, that that office is located in the CIS across from the Mega Comercial in Angelopolis. I will probably go there after getting permanent residency.

     My current fear is I have to be able to read and speak Spanish. Well, when my wife goes away on vacation for a month or two in the summer, I get by fine with talkng to family and neighbors and on shopping expeditions. I have a hearing problem. At times a cousin has to listen to what a government employee says and then repeats it in my ear in Spanish.

     I consider myself as reading functionally.

     But my grammar will never be perfect. And, with government employees, the topics are such that there will be words I don’t know. So, I am not sure I will be viewed as speaking Spanish or not.

     Age is negatively correlated with learning a language, and in my 70’s, I don’t think my Spanish will dramatically improve in the future.

     My first Spanish class was when I was in my 40’s. You may not believe this, but the adult ed. teacher, a Mr. Schreiber, was in 1936 official translator for Jesse Owens in the Berlin Olympics. He showed us a photo of himself with Jesse Owens. He told me that for my age I learned very fast.

     There is a requirement to pass a test on Mexican history, but the page said it was waivered for those over 70 years old.

     This may sound hokey but when I die, I want to be Mexican. And, I know myself well enough to know if I do become Mexican, the minute they tell me I am Mexican I am going to embarass myself and cry like a baby right in front of God and everybody.. I hope not, but I think so. And, I m not a crier. In 54 years as an adult, I have only cried twice. But, becoming Mexican is going to be too much. I don’t know if any of you can understand that or not.

     Another reason I want to become Mexican ASAP is I am assuming if my wife dies, my family unity grinds to a halt. Not that I have any reason to know she is going to die soon, but we are in our 70’s.

     I do not want to be back to border runs!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 2, 2015 at 10:29 pm

       Hi Bruce,
       The page should say that the requirement to pass a Mexican History/Culture test is waived for applicants over age 60.

       Thanks for the wonderful stories.

       Re speaking Spanish: A friend just went through this process at SRE, and his Spanish test basically involved being able to carry on a basic conversation with several SRE employees. They did ask him to identify the woman on the $200 peso note:

       “Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz”

       Best of luck with your plans to apply for naturalized citizenship with SRE!
       steve

       Reply
394. Bruce McGovern says:

     April 3, 2015 at 8:52 pm

     I can carry on a basic conversation, with only minor hearing problems. In my experience, when Mexicans realize you have a problem hearing they move closer and speak louder which is all I need.

     But, a question. Did he get to look at the bill or did he have to know by memory?

     My other house in Mexico City is one block away from a street by the name Sor Juana de la Cruz.

     Thanks for correcting that age waiver on history test. I was going by memory as you could probably tell, jijiji.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 3, 2015 at 10:05 pm

       “Did he get to look at the bill or did he have to know by memory?”

       Know by memory. His lawyer had prepped/warned him.
       Is this common, or just a Yucatecan thing? Lo no se…

       I know I will study the common bills, and know the full names, as they expected him to know more than just “Juana de la Cruz“. He initially said that, and they prompted him for more, and he added the title “Sor” => success.
       steve

       Reply
395. Marcie says:

     May 5, 2015 at 12:15 pm

     I have a new car (2014) and can not nationalize it under the Mexican law. I am in my 4th year of a Temporal visa. My question is, can I let my temporal visa expire, get a new one and register my car again for another 4 years till I reach the magical 6-8 year old car before nationalizing it?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 6, 2015 at 7:12 am

       Hi Marcie,
       Yes, but some INM offices do not allow us to get a new RT visa without leaving the country. In that case, we can surrender the old TIP when we exit Mexico to get the new RT visa – and get a new TIP when re-entering Mexico to complete the INM RT visa process.

       Alternately: Some INM offices like Guadalajara and Chapala allow RT visa holders to let their RT visa expire, and then go to your INM office the first business day after expiration, pay a small fine, and apply for a new 4 year RT visa (never leaving Mexico). Other INM offices force the RT to leave the country and apply for a new RT at a Mexican Consulate.

       Contact your INM office and find out what they allow.

       You likely have to get a new TIP permit for your car, to fit with the new RT visa – which depending on your Aduana office’s policies may require a drive to a border. Also: Contact your Aduana office to find out if they will accept extending your current TIP if you get a new RT visa (allowing the old one to expire by a day). Some Aduana offices are allowing foreigners to submit official confirmation of their new INM RT permit application by rush mail delivery to Aduana along with the request to extend the Audana TIP permit’s expiration date.
       steve

       Reply
396. tropical21 says:

     May 9, 2015 at 12:26 am

     Well I just wanted to give an update about my status. I am now a RESIDENTE TEMPORAL! I went to pick up my card last thursday. My timeline was about 7 weeks start to finish (9 weeks since I waited an extra 2 weeks to pick up the card since i was traveling). I must say that it has been somewhat of a pain to get this card, but I am very happy I went through this process. It is definitely worth it and humbling. I think I will just enjoy Mexico the next two years and then probably apply for my citizenship and I guess my RESIDENTE PERMANENTE since citizenship can take a while to process. If anyone needs help or a referral for Cancun let me know.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 9, 2015 at 7:24 am

       Congrats!

       Did you get just 1 year? (1 year is typical for first time applicants)

       IF you only got 1 year, you could apply for a 3 year renewal next year – saving some future time in the INM office.
       steve

       Reply
397. Tropical21 says:

     May 9, 2015 at 11:51 am

     I got it for 2 years. I am married to a mexican citizen. I actually got two years by mistake. I went to the office and we misunderstood the immigration officer and we paid for two years of residency and the “study” to change status. Well we were only suppose to pay the “study”. Anyways the one who accepted our paperwork said it was ok and maybe they would refund me the money of the difference between 1 and 2 years. I was asked for economic solvency as an “additional hurdle” but submitted bank statements translated into Spanish. About a week after that I was approved for the two years. My lawyer said it was almost unheard of to be given two years.

     Anyways, I have read that after two years of marriage I can apply for permanent residency, which I intend to do, but also that after two years of residency and being married to a mexican and living in Mexico one can apply for citizenship. My lawyer confirmed this as does the SRE naturalization webpage.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 9, 2015 at 12:01 pm

       Hi Tropical,
       Correct on all points.

       Was your marriage to a Mexican conducted (or approved) by your Quintan Roo State Registro Civil office?

       (or were you married outside Mexico?)

       We had to add and extra 4 years to the process because our Yucatan State Registro Civil office would not accept our US-Colorado marriage from 7 years earlier.
       steve

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         May 10, 2015 at 10:06 am

         The Puebla state office simply told us to take our US 1975 marriage documents with apostille and official translation back to her home village where she was born and where we were going to live. Here, they add your marriage information to the original birth certificate, in our case it was 1942. And, so it was duly registered not in the state office but back at her home town and in the same book and on the same page as her birth was registered. I had noticed this in genealogy work from over 100 years ago.
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         May 10, 2015 at 10:08 am

         Let me add a note here that so far I haven’t seen anyone who got their marriage registered at their state office. But, we did get ours registered in her home town on the first try. Hint. Hint.
       • yucalandia says:

         May 10, 2015 at 3:24 pm

         YAY !
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         May 10, 2015 at 3:55 pm

         But, let me give more detail. Our municipio had several mothers bring back children who were US citizens by birth, and a friend works on such things. So, he knew the routine. We didn’t actually need him to go with us, but he talked to the marriage registrar and told her we’d be in. We of course don’t know if that made it a difference.

         So, they had experience in such things.

         Also, it was done on the first try, but that took quite a few days. The President was busy and didn’t get around to having a meeting with the registrar for some days. She had to explain to him what he was going to sign and why.

         So, it was just a case of apply with all the documents you would predict, and pay a fee, I don’t remember but it wasn’t very large, and then “hurry up and wait.”

         Then, when the 1942 birth registry was completed with the marriage information, they copied that page into a document and put their legal oaths and stamps on it. We paid for several certified copies, and our marriage was registered for all purposes as if we were originally married in Mexico. Of course, it didn’t say that. it was noted we were married in Iowa on the correct date.

         But, for all legal purposes Mexico views us as legally married. Such things as property rights. Since we do not have separate property rights documented, which is an option when you marry in Mexico, we automatically have joint property rights here in Mexico. That seems fair since Texas was community property anyway. So, there is no way for us to have any separate property. And, if after 40 years I can’t trust my wife, that would be pretty bad. Heh, heh.

         I am not an attorney, but I did legal research for many years. I suspect after nearly thirty years with community property it might well be impossible to create separate property situation, even with mutual agreement.

         Oscar also made up documents which showed her US married name and her original Mexican name, which does not change after birth even when they marry. it was the name changes in the courts because she never used in her life voluntarily her birth name, which caused the most paperwork for Oscar.

         I added this detail because in Mexico you don’t always know why you are rejected for something you should be able to do, and also sometimes you don’t know why you achieved something when maybe you should not have. But, I do believe our foreign marriage registration was completely correct and legal.
398. Tropical21 says:

     May 9, 2015 at 12:28 pm

     We were married in Sonora through the civil registry. We had no problem with the marriage certificate at immigration, they hardly even looked at it. Wow an extra 4 years is a bummer.

     On a side note, how long is one allowed to be outside of Mexico without losing their temporary/permanent residency?

     When applying for citizenship, I heard that one can not leave the country for the previous 2 years or something like that?

     How long did the citizenship process take? Or have you gotten to that step yet?

     Thanks!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 9, 2015 at 2:51 pm

       Hi Tropical,
       It’s easier and less bulky to ask you to read the subsection above (in the article) about the qualifying requirements for citizenship at: https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Immigration%20Requirements%20that%20Relate%20to%20Becoming%20a%20Naturalized%20Citizen

       excerpt of one item from the list of requirements (above):
       “~ A letter certifying that you have not been outside Mexico more than the allowed amount, (not out of Mexico for more than 180 days out of the last 2 years), additionally sometimes including clear and legible exit/entry dates and stamps in our passport. ”

       I just started my citizenship application, but a close friend just went through the process 3 months ago. It takes between 9 to 12 months using the Merida SRE office (if you have a clean application, clean history, and can speak Spanish passably).

       We are allowed to be outside Mexico as much as we want as RTs or RPs. RTs do have to renew their RT visa at their INM office, though.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
399. Tropical21 says:

     May 10, 2015 at 8:23 pm

     Wow! Great info Bruce. Thanks for sharing your story. Well we have been married about 9 months. When we got married she asked me that question about separate or combined property. I tried to do some research before hand but there isn’t much info on mancomuncado?* I think that is the term*.

     Well I only ask, what about property and stuff before marriage? For example my parents have me listed on some property in the U.S. and in another Central American country and bank accounts mostly for inheritance purposes. I don’t see a problem with my wife but it’s in the back of my head if anything were to happen I would hate to have those places in jeopardy since they are my parents. I believe divorce law is based on where you get divorced but from what I saw in community states, I believe what you brought in BEFORE marriage or even inherited is yours and not your spouses. Obviously after 10,15,20 years of marriage I’m sure a judge or court would see that differently but such little time?

     Reply
400. Bruce McGovern says:

     May 10, 2015 at 10:28 pm

     My wife says mancomunado or mancomunal. But, there are also other names.

     You got married in Mexico? I think you said above, Sonora? i have been told by more than one Mexican attorney that the civil marriage ceremony actually consists of signing the marriage contracts. (My sister-in-law’s husband taught law at UNAM for years, and now administers the law department in another university which he helped found.) Plus I know other lawyers in Mexico.

     I have seen several Mexican civil marriages, and that is what happened. The couple sat at a table with a couple witnesses, and the registrar, and the registrar swore them in, or whatever you call it, explained the contracts and they both signed under oath that they had received legal advice, and that they agreed to separate or joint ownership. And, their witnesses declared and signed they both knew what they were doing.

     And, I have seen them in more than one state.

     So, when you say you married in Mexico (Sonora) but don’t know about those marriage contracts, it concerns me greatly. For more than one reason. First, why don’t you know about the contracts you were supposed to sign? Second, I believe you are supposed to completely and honestly sign that you have listed all properties. If I am right on that, failure to do so can cause problems.

     On the other hand, though divorce rate depends in part upon your ages (as people get older the divorce rate in both US and Mexico drops sharply, and also goes down as education levels go up) do not assume that divorce in Mexico can be obtained for boredom as it is in the US, essentially no-fault divorce we call it. Except in Mexico City, run by the M*****t party. There I believe they have what we call no-fault divorce. Not in other parts of the nation, last time I checked.

     If your wife is a mature person your odds of divorce in Mexico mostly depend upon your own behavior, heh, heh. And, if you live near her family and she has daily contact with mother; aunt; sisters; and others, odd of divorce need en electron microscope to see.

     Of course, as many as half of marriages are private marriages, without the government involved. If they end up splitting there is usually no court issues anyway.

     I consider myself somewhat of an expert on divorce. For ten years, I supplied no-fee counseling to men involved in divorce, including suicide counseling and doing considerable legal research because frankly most lawyers were not that extremely knowledgeable about men’s issues in divorce, but of course that was in the USA.

     And, strictly out of curiosity I checked out divorce laws when I moved to Mexico, like the old saw about the retired fire horse when the fire alarm goes off..

     Mexico City changed its divorce laws not too many years ago. It is a Catholic nation, and I have noticed no great movement to ease up on divorce elsewhere.

     But, it does sound scary to me that you married 9 months ago, and never thought of this as an issue.

     Reply
401. Bruce McGovern says:

     May 10, 2015 at 10:32 pm

     I did not not make it clear, that the contract marriage papers are made up in advance. All negotiated out and all issues resolved. The ceremony is basically the swearing and signing of that is prepared in advance.

     I can not rule out the possibility that Sonora has a different system of course.

     Reply
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       May 11, 2015 at 9:05 am

       Oops! I did a boo-boo and am here to fix it. When i said there was no no-fault divorce, I meant a spouse cannot get a divorce without the consent of the other spouse without proving fault. in fact, Mexico does have no-fault divorce by mutual agreement, if there are no children and a doctor certifies she is not pregnant. I was just looking up the divorce laws for another forum, and saw that. I knew it but had forgotten.

       In Puebla, it is Art. 436 to 441 of the Civil Code of Puebla.

       Again, I agree your odds of divorce are not high. Don’t worry; be happy!

       Reply
402. Tropical21 says:

     May 10, 2015 at 11:40 pm

     Yes, that is exactly how we did it. We had our fingerprints taken and everything. Yes I wish I looked into this a little more, but I feel good about our relationship. We both have good education levels, and although we aren’t close to her family they talk every day, my father is here in Cancun and her family really likes me and vice versa for my family and her.

     I will probably contact you if it ever becomes and issue (hopefully not). It had just always been something at the back of my mind. As you know, “it’s Mexico” so it seems some stuff just flows and happens without reason. Although Mexico is making serious progress in modernization, in some smaller towns they are still 60 years in the past.

     Overall we are happy in Mexico and enjoy it here. We were in DF last weekend to visit friends and one of her cousins. We really liked it there, but Cancun is a lot less stressful!

     Reply
403. Alex says:

     May 11, 2015 at 11:35 pm

     A little typo in financial requirements in savings for Permanente: it’s 1,402,000 pesos, not 1,040,200.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 12, 2015 at 7:05 am

       Thanks!

       The most recent update to the DOF Linemientos for INM and SRE requirements for Residente Permanente say … => Exactly what Alex described:

       “Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos doce meses”

       The current salario minimo de DF is: $70.10 pesos per day for 2015.

       20,000 days x $70.10 pesos/day = $1,402,000 …

       THANKS for finding my typo,
       steve

       Reply
404. Niclas says:

     May 12, 2015 at 1:49 pm

     Hi there, I have a quick question regarding my 4th year residente temporal renewl (rentista), which I made this morning. I let a imigration lawyer handle it, same as I have done the first 2 times. Only this time I found somethig strange. I went with him to the INM office because I needed my passport back imediately. Anyway, he had all my papers prepared with my bank statements and utility bill copy ….! The only thing what I found strange was that usually there is the “derecho” of 3500 something pesos to pay for 1 year renewl and he didn’t make it to the bank anymore, so he told me “it’s OK, they are pretty flexible here and we can pay the 3500 in a few weeks”? Isn’t it always that you have to pay this in advance? However all my papers were handed in and I have the piece of paper with my “pieza number” and I already checked on the Internet and allis registered there at the INM site.
     My question is does that make sense that he says we pay in a few weeks or does that sound like there is something fishy? Would be great if you could let me know your opinion.
     Thanks a lot
     Niclas

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 12, 2015 at 5:15 pm

       Hi Niclas,
       Each INM office has broad latitude in how they do some things. Ours here in Merida, Yucatan, will definitely give you the pieza number, NUT, and password without having paid, but they either do not process or seem to drag-their-feet in processing applications that have not been paid in full.

       Your abogado likely knows how things work at that office, so, as long as you make a documented payment by the time to submit fotos, get fingerprinted, etc, it may all work out fine.

       If the whole process takes more than 7 weeks, I’d wonder if the added delays in finally issuing the residency card were aggravated by delaying $$ payments…?

       If you are under a tight deadline to complete the process, you might ask if paying promptly gives a faster result.

       If you have no deadlines, then it should all be fine.
       steve

       Reply
       • Niclas says:

         May 12, 2015 at 6:59 pm

         Hi Steve,
         Thanks a lot for your quick answer. I always thought that witout the payment you couldn’t even get your papers in, in order to get the process started. But now since you are telling that the guys from the INM in Merida do that as well, it must be correct what my avocado tells me.
         By the way, I already have submited my fotos, as well, along with my utility bill copy and my bank statements. Does that sound about right? I noticed you wrote “by the time to submit fotos, get fingerprinted, etc”?
         However I am on no tight deadline, so I don’t mind if it takes 7 weeks.

         Cheers
         Niclas
       • yucalandia says:

         May 14, 2015 at 12:06 pm

         Hi Niclas,
         It can be important to realize that there are 2 distinct types of payments that INM can collect.

         When we apply to change status, change visa type, there are change fees that must be paid up-front for INM to process just the change application. This payment happens early in the process (up front). (no visa approved yet)

         The second general type of payment is paying for the visa, which is charged when/after INM has checked our applications, checked our documents, and has decided that we qualify and are approved for the visa or visa renewal. That payment happens late in the process, after INM has approved us for the visa or renewal.

         Does that help explain your situation?
         steve
405. Niclas says:

     May 15, 2015 at 10:20 am

     Hi steve, Ok thanks so much, I am getting there. Always thought I had to pay the renewl fee basically upfront, wasn’t aware that this can be done later in the process as well. So basically my avocado handed in all my papers the other day and I got the pieza number, nut and password. Does that mean I already got approved or not yet? Also I thought as soon as thet review the documents and give the pieza number I am basically approved. Am I wrong?

     Thanks

     Niclas

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 15, 2015 at 12:43 pm

       Hi Niclas,
       Getting a pieza number & password only means that INM has logged your application into the computer, and assigned you a “case” number.

       You can use your numbers to check the status of your application – and sometimes they post messages onto your INM online account telling you to come into the office, or to submit more documents.

       Your approval comes later,
       steve

       Reply
406. Niclas says:

     May 16, 2015 at 11:07 am

     Thanks so much Steve, I appreaciate it.

     Best regards

     Niclas

     Reply
407. justin says:

     May 24, 2015 at 1:49 am

     Hi Steve.
     For permanent resident, in order to keep the permanent resident status, do I have to be in Mexico for at least one day every two years? This seems to apply for permanent resident in Panama. So for permanent residents of Mexico, if they have not returned back to mexico for many years, Is their permanent status still valid?

     Also what are the penalties if you fail to inform INM office for changing address within 90 days?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 24, 2015 at 9:07 am

       Hi Justin:
       No.
       Mexico allows us to be outside of Mexico for unspecified/unlimited amounts of time.

       Penalties are often up to the discretion of the local INM office.

       They could cancel your residency card, and make you start over (in the most extreme case) … or they could charge you for some cuota/fee/surcharge to refile things … or they could let you off with a scolding.
       steve

       Reply
408. justin says:

     May 24, 2015 at 9:14 am

     Hi Steve:

     “They could cancel your residency card” for just failing to change the address? Has it been happened to anyone before? Sounds very scary.

     Reply
409. Tom Bailey says:

     May 26, 2015 at 2:02 pm

     I have been following the Yucalandia Web Page for a few years now and have found the information to be much more reliable than other web pages; for that I’m extremely grateful. This being my initial posting I’ll try to be brief and direct with my question. I am a 63 year old retired resident of the USA. I visited Mexico for each of 23 years before moving to Quintanna Roo 4 years ago, renewing my FMM prior to the 180 day limit by either returning to the USA or making a . I am now in the beginning stages of obtaining my Residencia temporal / Permanente. Because My USA home was in the state of Vermont, I will most likely be starting the process at the office of the Mexican Consulate in Boston. Many thanks to Cascabel for sharing your experiences wit the Boston Consulate. Maybe this office is not as difficult as I previously thought. My question at this time is about the proof of solvency. Although I am eligible, I am not currently collecting either Social Security or my small company pension. I also have money from a 401K currently residing in a retirement account (Money Market). Is it necessary for me to be able to show monthly deposits from Social Security and my company pension into my USA bank account? Or will it be acceptable to show computer printout statements of each, showing the amounts I am eligible to collect. I have been reluctant to begin collecting both because the longer I can hold off the greater the monthly disbursements will be.
     I look forward to reading replies from knowledgeable responders and I’m sure I will have many more questions.
     Tom

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 27, 2015 at 7:16 am

       Hi Tom,
       Glad we’re able to offer some help. One big point? Our good readers continue to contribute news of their experiences, giving us first-person sources of information of how things are working. … subtly implying that we hope you return to tell us exactly what Boston’s Mexican Consulate is doing/requiring now. … *grin*

       In legal theory, you can qualify by showing/proving either sufficiently large monthly deposits or a sufficiently large monthly average balance. (See current amounts above – which changed last fall, 2014.)

       Some Consulates have added their own requirement that the monthly deposits be retirement income from a pension. At one point 2 years ago, Boston was one of those Consulates with the extra requirement. We have heard no reports in the meantime if Boston has continued their practice of requiring retirement.

       In either case a sufficiently large average running 401K balance is legally be enough proof to meet INM’s personal fiscal solvency.

       The rules for Consulates changed last fall, reducing the amounts, as listed above. With the Mexican peso weakening to $15 pesos per dollar, the US dollar valued amounts are further lower than they were 2 years ago.

       If a Boston Consulate clerks gives you a bad time, you could refer them to the official SRE regs from the D.O.F., and gently ask where in the regs it requires monthly pension income… see http://www.dof.gob.mx/nota_to_doc.php?codnota=5363602

       Refer them to “Tramite 5” for Residente Temporal page 20 for “Invesionista” fiscal requirements
       or
       “Tramite 7” for Residente Permanente page 24 for “IV. Presentar los Documentos… a. Jubilados o Pensionados”

       No mentions of any requirements for monthly pension deposit…

       It should go well, especially if the clerk balks, and you ask for a supervisor/manager, and ask the manager to show you where in the SRE official DOF published rules there is a monthly pension deposit.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
410. Cascabel says:

     May 27, 2015 at 8:48 am

     The chief officer at the Mexican Consulate in Boston (the Cónsul) required us to show proof of retirement. In our case the proof consisted of letters from our bank indicating that we had been receiving monthly retirement checks from Social Security. She, the Cónsul, was definitely a stickler about proof of retirement. Without retirement income coming in from somewhere, I am not sure how you would go about proving your retirement status. The financial resources qualification is, in principal, a completely separate issue.
     I would suggest you call the consulate. They were very helpful and friendly on the phone, and they may suggest a painless way to prove your status.
     I would point out, parenthetically, that the Cónsul is not going beyond the rules in demanding proof of retirement–that is part of the law. She did strongly suggest (but not demand) that we take a copy of our marriage certificate with Apostille with us on going to Mexico, and that we take copies of all our financial stuff and proof of retirement as well, none of which turned out to be necessary. But in terms of what we had to supply to get the visa at Boston, it was strictly by the book.
     Good luck, Tom, and keep us posted.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 27, 2015 at 12:14 pm

       Cacabel,
       If you read the D.O.F. published law for SRE, the Boston Mexican Consul is ADDING requirements that are not present in the law.

       As you found with their peculiar – raro – incorrect advice that you needed to take an Apostilled marriage certificate to your INM office, the Boston Mexican Consul folks are similarly wrong with their insistence of proof of retirement pension income.

       1,000’s of Americans enjoy far better service from the Mexican Consulates in Laredo, San Antonio, Phoenix, Chicago, Portland and others who follow the current Mexican SRE law as published in the DOF versus dealing with the whims of one Consul, like Boston’s.

       Oh well, when low level Government bureaucrats flex their muscles by over-extending their power, we can have limited options in that moment…

       Happy Trails,
       and GOOD LUCK to Tom,
       steve

       Reply
411. markemmer says:

     May 27, 2015 at 11:37 am

     Tom, I disagree with your statement “that the Cónsul is not going beyond the rules in demanding proof of retirement.” That requirement for “Jubilados o pensionados” ONLY appears in the trámite for Residente Permanente applicants. It is entirely absent from the trámite for Residente Temporal applicants, which I think was Steve’s point about gently but firmly asking them to show you the regulation.

     They won’t be able to.

     It’s been that way ever since the 2011 revision of the immigration regulations, and that portion was continued unchanged in the October 2014 revision, except for the amount of pesos required for proof, which was reduced.

     I will also note that making the automatic transition to Permanente after four years of Temporal provides a way to become Permanente without being retired or having a pension. Articulo 44 of the Lineamientos retains the “pensionados o jubilados” requirement in Requisito 5 if you want to do make the transition in less than four years. However, if you wait out the full four years, you can make the transition under Requisto 6, which has no such requirement.

     — Mark

     Reply
412. K Mason says:

     May 27, 2015 at 1:39 pm

     Wow. What a difference in consulates!

     I went to the Phoenix consulate last Friday to apply for my RT. Got there at 8 AM and got the number 1 ticket. Was called up a few min later. Had all my required docs ready. After I was asked a few basic questions she asked for my financials. Offered her several but she only took 1 and that was an annuity statement I printed off from my computer. She said that only the 1 was needed. Never asked about retirement, monthly income, pension, bank statements, etc. I did ask about marriage and birth certificates, but was told there is no need for them.
     After using highlighter on several lines on my papers, she took my picture, took my passport, and gave me a paper to pay the cashier the required fees. I was told to come back to get my visa in 45 min.

     I returned about an hour later and everything was ready. Only then she asked me about when I was going to retire. The question was more like a conversational opener. No notes were taken, no further entries on the consulate’s computer, it was like I could of even said I never intend to retire! (I am actually retiring in Oct.)

     Everything went much better than what I was expecting and was prepared for. I was in and out by 10 AM with my visa in my passport. After reading, studying, and preparing for the worst… it was one of the easiest things to do. I am glad the Phoenix consulate was the closest one to me!

     Now only if my visit ti IMN goes as easy!

     Kirk

     Reply
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       May 27, 2015 at 8:57 pm

       It can work that way. Some years ago, when Mexico first started giving dual nationality to children of Mexican immigrants living in the US, my son wanted his. He and my wife went into Chicago with what they were told they needed. My wife got the impression not many had done this before them.

       A woman was assigned as “personal guide” to help them through the process of applying. A couple times someone on the Consulate staff complained some trivial thing wasn’t exactly correct. The “guide” would get in their face and tell them, “This woman came all the way from Texas for this. I want the application done today.” And, it was.

       They went back a week later to get his Mexican passport; birth certificate, and military papers.

       Reply
413. Cascabel says:

     May 27, 2015 at 3:06 pm

     I think I left some ambiguity in my remarks. As I thought Tom was looking for Residente Permanente status, my comments referred to that. My wife and I had never had more than tourist status, so for us it was a requirement that we prove we were retired. I cannot comment on what the Boston Cónsul may have required of other applicants, but in our case she demanded nothing that was not in the law.
     Certainly I have to agree that her advice that we take all those extra documents with us to the local INM office was just extra work that gained us nothing. I also doubt that she cuts anyone any slack as to the regulations. But she was very clear with us, and I believed her, that she did not want an application that she approved to be denied at the local INM office because THEY demanded documents they had no business asking for. This makes her a severe gate-keeper for sure, but I have read enough (here!!) about the whimsical nature of the local INM agents to think her advice is probably well founded.

     Reply
414. Tom Bailey says:

     May 27, 2015 at 6:16 pm

     Many thanks for all your replies and information. I will certainly keep you all updated on my experiences in Boston. One thing seems quite clear to me and is consistent with my previous experiences dealing with government bureaucrats everywhere (most significantly the EPA during my former employment) — have everything they could possibly ask for ready.and immediately accessible. I just want to make sure I understand what the Mexican Consulate might ask for so i can be prepared. I do have a friend in San Antonio, so if I fail in my attempt in Boston I will seriously consider stopping there on my way back to Q’Roo.
     Saludos
     Tom

     Reply
415. Niclas says:

     June 11, 2015 at 8:41 pm

     Hi Steve, It’s Niclas again, quick other question, how long does it usually take to get fingerprinted from the day I hand my papers in? Does 3-4 weeks sound about right?
     Would be great if you could let me know?

     Thanks
     Niclas

     Reply
     • therumjournal says:

       June 11, 2015 at 10:27 pm

       That sounds about right… It took me about that time frame. Sit back and wait for the email.

       -tropical21 (now Therumjournal.com)

       Reply
       • Niclas says:

         June 12, 2015 at 9:40 am

         Thanks so much.

         Best

         Niclas
     • yucalandia says:

       June 12, 2015 at 6:37 am

       Hi Niclas,
       2 – 4 weeks is typical.

       A few offices do it within a week,
       steve

       Reply
       • Niclas says:

         June 12, 2015 at 9:39 am

         Thanks so much Steve.

         Have a great weekend.

         Niclas
     • sdibaja says:

       June 12, 2015 at 7:02 am

       why wait for the email? just go back to the office and check.
       I went thru the process of getting a picture ID card in exchange for my ancient FM booklet and Inmigrado letter a month or two ago.
       at each step I returned to the office to check and was able to move it forward without waiting for the email. my total time was about 2 weeks but I hear of others taking 2 or 3 months.
       Just go back in and ask.

       Reply
416. therumjournal says:

     June 12, 2015 at 7:46 am

     What office did you apply at? There is no way that would work in Cancun…its a tiny office and very busy all day long with people frequently waiting outside. Unless you want to waste your day playing musical chairs I wouldn’t recommend it at that office. They tell you that you will be contacted.

     However, as in your case, I have heard of this happening at other offices. I don’t think all offices are like Cancun…either way I’m glad that worked for you, and wish it worked for me!

     Reply
     • sdibaja says:

       June 12, 2015 at 8:41 am

       I am in Ensenada, BC.
       It is also a small office with a wait list, but shorter. Sometimes there were about 5 or 6 people in front of me.
       The guards at the entry door do a very good job of triage and move things along quickly.
       Actually I would just normally wait to be contacted. But in this case it needed to be expedited a bit.
       I needed the modern photo ID to:
       1. get a Mx. drivers license
       2. get my car imported in my name
       3. get Mx. license plates.
       I need to travel deep into the US next week and my US plates and my US drivers license had both expired. None of those faults are an issue here in Baja, but the LEOs in the US like to use handcuffs and mace.

       Reply
417. John says:

     June 25, 2015 at 10:37 am

     Hi,

     This is a fantastic resource, thank you!

     I’m a British citizen living in Mexico only with the ‘tourist’ card for the last three months. I have recently received a job offer from a Mexican company, so I’m trying to thoroughly understand the process to obtain the RT visa with lucrative activities. They have told me that first they need to acquire the right to hire foreigners, and then they will be able to present me with an official offer letter. I’m thinking of going to the INM office tomorrow to ask what the process will be like, but if you could answer any of these questions I would be very grateful!

     1. Do I definitely have to leave the country to obtain the Residente Temporal visa? This website seems to state that explicitly, but a 2015 Immigration guide I have seen says:
     “The only visas that can be processed at the Immigration Institute in Mexico when a
     foreigner is in the country as a VISITOR/TOURIST are:…
     • Visitor with permission to engage in lucrative activities by job offer…”

     2. If I have to visit a consulate, do I have to visit one in the UK? It would be much cheaper, of course, to fly to the States for a few days than all the way back home.

     3. Is it necessary / advised to hire a lawyer for this process?

     Many thanks for any help you can give me!
     John

     Reply
418. John says:

     June 25, 2015 at 10:47 am

     Hi,

     This is a fantastic resource, thank you!

     I’m a British citizen living in Mexico only with the ‘tourist’ card for the last three months. I have recently received a job offer from a Mexican company, so I’m trying to thoroughly understand the process to obtain the RT visa with lucrative activities. They have told me that first they need to acquire the right to hire foreigners, and then they will be able to present me with an official offer letter. I’m thinking of going to the INM office tomorrow to ask what the process will be like, but if you could answer any of these questions I would be very grateful!

     1. Do I definitely have to leave the country to obtain the Residente Temporal visa? This website seems to state that explicitly, but a 2015 Immigration guide I have seen says:
     “The only visas that can be processed at the Immigration Institute in Mexico when a
     foreigner is in the country as a VISITOR/TOURIST are:…
     • Visitor with permission to engage in lucrative activities by job offer…”

     2. If I have to visit a consulate, do I have to visit one in the UK? It would be much cheaper, of course, to fly to the States for a few days than all the way back home.

     3. Is it necessary / advised to hire a lawyer for this process?

     Many thanks for any help you can give me!
     John

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       June 25, 2015 at 1:16 pm

       Hi John,
       1. There are instances where some INM offices have allowed visitors in Mexico on NO-Lucrativo FMM visitante visas to change status to be allowed to work.

       Since this is a specialized area where the general policy is that you must leave the country, and apply at a Mexican Consulate, it sounds like it’s time to contact a good immigration attorney who knows how things work at your INM office, to help you find out if your local office has a work-around to the general rule. This means you may or may not be successful at changing status at your local INM office …

       2. You can go to any country where you have a valid visa to go to a Mexican Consulate. Currently, Belize is requiring 3 days inside Belize …

       3. Not necessary, but it could make the difference between having to leave Mexico vs. getting the approval to work in Mexico without going abroad.
       steve

       Reply
419. Tom Bailey says:

     July 4, 2015 at 7:56 pm

     As promised, I will give a brief description of my experience at the Mexican Consulate’s office in Boston. In a word, it was GREAT! Both on the telephone and in person, all the consular staff I met were very polite, respectful, helpful and accomodating. I actually had more questions for them than they had for me. I arrived a bit early ( 9:40 for a 10:00 AM appointment). My name was called at 9:50 (early) and I presented the staff member with my completed Visa request form and supporting financial documents (company pension, Social Security, retirement investments and many many pages of bank account statements). I then waited about 15 minutes to see the Consulate. She looked at the papers I brought with me and told me that not only did I meet with the requirements for Residencia Temporal but she also suggested that I apply for Residencia Permanente because I met those requirements as well; She told me that if I could get letters from the company i worked for and the investment company stating briefly in English, what the value of my benefits are, (this, she explained would be a great benefit for the INM officials who probably would not want to read through all the copies I brought with me) she would process the Visa for Permanente. Because I was not certain if I would be able to get the letters before my return to Mexico, and then return to tghe Consulate, I decided to continue with my plan for temporal (bird – in hand mentality I guess). After a brief wait, I then had my picture and index finger prints taken. I did explain to the the consulate that the Boston Consulate office had a comparatively poor reputation for their welcomeness towards Americans wishing to emigrate to Mexico. She explained that it was their policy to effectively screen potential expats so it would be extremely unlikely they would have any problems with the INM, regardless of which INM office they would use to complete the process. When I asked, she also explained that they do not publish the financial requirements because the INM laws AND exchange rates change so frequently that there is a reasonable risk that anything published on their website would be misleading. All-in-all, it was a pleasant experience (except for the train and subway rides into Boston, jajaja). Now I will procede by completing the process at the Playa del Carmen INM office with the assistance of Mirna Lopez a migration management specialist. I hope I can give another positive report in another month or two.
     Saludos
     Tom

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 5, 2015 at 12:00 pm

       What a good report.

       For people concerned about the rumor of supposed “frequently changing” fiscal requirements, the INM has had the same fiscal requirements – published in the “new” INM Law – published without changes – on the internet – since Nov. 8, 2012.

       The SRE published their fiscal requirements last fall.

       Since the 2012 requirements were not changes, (as they were part of a completely new law and new visa system), there have been only one set of changes in the past 3 years, changes made by SRE last fall – which does not seem to be a reason/excuse to not post the requirements on their local Boston website?

       Ironically, the SRE’s changes were widely published on the internet both here on Yucalandia, on Mexconnect, on Chapalalaw.com, Chapala.com AND as a part of the Diario Oficial de la Federacion – so the Boston’s Consul’s excuse does not seem to fit any realities of the past 3 years ???

       GLAD to hear it worked out so well!
       steve,

       Reply
420. L.B. says:

     July 5, 2015 at 4:30 pm

     Hi Steve,

     I have a temporal but I want to change it to a permanente. I am currently in the States and plan to be here until July 27th. My temporal expires on July 20th. I know about the 55 day extension if I were going to renew the temporal, but I believe you said previously that that would not cover the situation where I wanted to change from the temporal to the permanente. My question is: Can I allow my temporal to expire while I’m in the States and go to the consulate here in N.Y. and apply for a Permanente, as if I did not have a temporal? Will the 55 day grace period somehow interfere with my ability to do this? I really want the permanente and I think it won’t cost me much more to get the permanente as a new applicant than it would to change from the temporal to the permanente.

     thanks for your help

     Lou

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 6, 2015 at 6:30 am

       Hi L.B.,
       Good preparations on your part, to learn so much.

       If you were trying to go from RT to RP, using 4 years of successfully completed RT to qualify for RP, then you would not want to let the RT expire.

       Since you are proposing to use your own income/savings to qualify for RP, it may be no problem to allow the RT to expire for 7 – 8 days as you approve, but we have not heard anything official on this.

       You are welcome to apply at the Consulate for the RP, which can have an additional benefit of LOWER required personal fiscal solvency $$ amounts. The INM law and Mexican offices use a 25,000 day $$ standard, while the SRE law and Consulates use a 20,000 day $$ standard, so the Consulates require 20% less of a monthly average savings balance.

       Make sense?

       Best of Luck,
       steve

       Reply

421. Pingback: INM Rule Changes for Working Residente Temporal Visa Holders | Surviving Yucatan

422. Raj says:

     July 13, 2015 at 10:17 am

     I am an Indian citizen planning to marry my Mexican girlfriend soon. So I was checking about the process and everything.
     As per my research, I can travel to Mexico in visitor’s visa and get married. After marriage i will be eligible for Residente Temporal. But i would like to know if it includes the work permit. If no what is the procedure to obtain the work permit.
     Thanks

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 13, 2015 at 8:32 pm

       Hi Raj,
       The RT visa can be ordered with permission to work, but it takes extra effort and extra requirements.

       Typically you need a formal job offer letter from a Mexican employer, on their letterhead, describing the job, period of employment, the title of the person offering the job, etc. You would also have to get an RFC (tax ID numbr) from Hacienda/SAT.

       Talk with your local INM office about their exact requirements,
       steve

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         July 14, 2015 at 7:52 pm

         I didn’t know this. Under the old law for foreigners, once you got your status as spouse of a Mexican citizen, you were simply allowed to work, as long as you informed the government of your work and employer. I know the old law because I bought the book laws for foreigners a few years ago and studied it at length.

         That is one of the big losses in the new law to offset the many gains.
       • therumjournal says:

         July 22, 2015 at 1:34 am

         Raj, the whole process depends on your local office. I applied in Cancun and it took about 8 weeks start to finish. It could have been a little less but I believe the national policy states 30 days, however this varies. Not sure how long a work visa takes. But RT based on marriage to a mexican is pretty straight forward. I was asked for economic solvency and that slowed things dow by at least a week.

         From what I know, there is no permission for a foreigner to marry a mexican citizen now. I was worried about that but that is no longer necessary.
       • yucalandia says:

         July 23, 2015 at 6:07 am

         Correct:
         the OLD INM requirement for INM approval prior to marrying a Mexican was eliminated back in at least 2010. The foreigner who already has an INM visa MUST notify INM of their change in status (after marrying, notify INM of the marriage).
         Happy Trails,
         steve
     • therumjournal says:

       July 13, 2015 at 8:39 pm

       hi raj, yes you can travel to Mexico as a visitor. once you are married inside (or even outside of Mexico) you can apply for the Residente Temporal INSIDE of Mexico at your local INM office. You can see the requirements on the INM webpage, but basically you need your passport, your wife’s proof of citizenship (INE/IFE Card, Mexican passport, birth cert. etc), the solicitud, and at least in Cancun they asked for a letter requesting the change of status from visitor to residente temporal. Of course you will have to pay the fees as well.

       getting a work visa is similar to what yucalandia stated and most often the Mexican company needs to prove that they can’t find a capable Mexican to do the job. Mexico is pretty protective of it’s workforce.

       Just be prepared and everything will go fine. Good luck and welcome to Mexico!

       Reply
       • Raj says:

         July 22, 2015 at 12:56 am

         Hi All,
         Thanks for the details. I need few more info on the below.
         1) How long will it take to get the Residente Temporal after marriage.
         2) I have seen in some forum that a permission is required from “Secretaria de Gobernacion – Oficina de Migracion” to marry a Mexican citizen. Can you please provide the details about it and how long will it take to obtain it.

         Note : We are planning to get married on Querétaro.
423. sdibaja says:

     July 27, 2015 at 8:51 am

     Off topic a bit, but maybe someone here has been thru the process and knows the answer to this.
     Background:
     My wife is a Mexican native. I am a US Citizen. She has a tourist permit visa for the US to go shopping in the border zone of the US. To go farther she gets a 6 month pass at the border.
     We were married in the US a couple years ago.
     She would like to get US Citizenship.
     to apply she must first have a Permanent Resident Card (formerly called Alien Registration Card).

     OK, we have the form for that, but question #18: “Address in the United States where your relative intends to live.”
     How do we answer that?

     We live in Mexico.
     We do Not plan to move to the US, now or ever.
     We can use the address for a friend or relative that lives in the US, but in truth we do Not want to live in the US, we just want for it to be easier for her to enter and travel over there.

     Thanks for any insight or advice…

     Reply
     • therumjournal says:

       July 27, 2015 at 10:50 am

       SDIBAJA,

       I want to help you out with your question. If your wife do NOT plan on living in the United States, it will be very difficult to obtain and qualify for permanent residence and citizenship.

       You can apply for an immigrant visa from a consulate abroad and when it is granted, she arrives to the US border or a US airport and is admitted as a permanent resident.

       The other way to do it is when you are in the United States, you can file for adjustment of status for her, but she will not be allowed to leave the US for about 3 months until she gets advanced parole.

       If you are not going to live in the United States she legally does not qualify for permanent residency and/or citizenship. permanent residency is for people who will actually LIVE IN THE USA, not use the card as a visa… That is the legality of it. If you have been married more than 2 years USCIS will grant her immediate permanent residency. If you have been married less than 2 years you will be granted temporary permanent residency. After the 2 years of temporary residency, you need to apply (AND PAY) to remove conditions to make her a permanent resident. As the spouse of a US Citizen and LIVINIG IN THE US, she qualifies for citizenship.

       US CBP has the ability to track people inbound and outbound so actually proving that you have been in the US will be fairly difficult if you are not actually living there. Once she has her resident card, it will be a little easier to come and go without any issues. Legally she can be out of the US for up to 1 year without having to apply for a reentry visa or permit to continue residency. If she is out for more than 1 year, upon her return, she could be set up for a hearing with an immigration judge that may take away her residency. After 6 months of being out of the US she is technically applying for admission again, but its not a big deal. The one year mark is the important one.

       overall, i would say save your money and time if you both do NOT plan to live in the US. Its a hassle you probably don’t want to deal with if she is just going to use the resident card like a visa she currently has…

       to answer question #18 you should tell the truth, any information that you put down could potentially be crosschecked, verified and even have immigration show up at your home if they think there may be fraudulent activity with the immigration petition. This is unlikely but the paperwork you and her are signing are important papers, so it is best not to lie. I would not apply for the resident card until you are both in the US, maybe if you are there for a few months stay that would be the time to do it.

       good luck

       Reply
       • sdibaja says:

         July 27, 2015 at 11:32 am

         Thanks. I appreciate your thoughtful reply, and the effort of writing it all down.
         It looks like a catch 22 for us.
         I will not ask a family member or friend to use their address for this purpose, and we will never be in the US for more than 2 or 3 weeks at a time.
         We are much more comfortable living here, we are both fearful when we are over there… she just wants to avoid the constant fear of having her crossing visa jerked on a whim.
         The DHS does have a phone line, perhaps I will try to make a call.
         Thanks, Peter
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       July 27, 2015 at 4:42 pm

       I am not an expert on this. But, for the 40 years I have been married to a Mexican citizen, many people in the same circumstances were not even able to take their wives in for a one-time visit to visit family and see where he was born and raised. There was a lot of traffic on Mexican forums (fora?) about that issue.

       I always thought that was a bit cruel. Just one time?

       The argument given (in past years) was a person cannot have more than one immigration status, whatever that was supposed to mean.

       In McAllen, they, the citizens, call that permit for shopping a border crossing permit, or at least did in the past. I wonder if they know she is married to a U.S. citizen? I sure wouldn’t rock the boat.

       Some years ago, when my daughter got married in McAllen, the family from Mexico City came to the wedding. All but one had visas already. The other one did not, and they turned her back, My SIL, the groom at the wedding, called a friend in the border service and he told her what time to come when he was on duty, and he gave her a short term pass. I have no idea if that is still possible, because that was clear back in 1997.

       She was also turned down when she applied for a visitor’s pass of some sort, though all her siblings had one. She didn’t have enough assets, etc. Beautiful middle class women in Mexico do not normally have enough assets. That is simply is not how it works.

       Later, as assistant to a presidential candidate she got some sort of government document easily. She joked if her boss had won the election, she was going to ask to be the Mexican ambassador to the USA. And, yes, she could handle it.

       Reply
       • sdibaja says:

         July 28, 2015 at 8:45 am

         Thanks for your input.
         We are newly weds, only 2 years. Her shopping permit was issued a few years before we were married.
         what I am calling a “shopping permit” is titled “B1/B2 Visa/Border Crossing Card”, it expires 10 years after it was issued.
         We do not know if she is supposed to report change in status, and the actual physical limits of her permitted travel zone are nebulous.
         Thanks for cautioning us about doing anything to trigger a revocation. Family members have gotten their cards pulled by a border agent without cause, and no recourse.
         We have made an appointment to speak with a immigration counselor at Catholic Charities next month. I doubt we will find a favorable answer, but we will continue trying.

         PS: The modern system does much to separate families. Many can not pass the “test” to get such a crossing permit. If the Americanized family members (with passports) do not come over here to visit all contact is lost. Tragic.
       • therumjournal says:

         July 28, 2015 at 11:13 am

         SDIBAJA,

         It is not a “shopping permit”. The BCC card that she has is a “Border Crossing Card” (yes most people in the border zone use to to go to the USA for shopping). However, this BCC card functions just like any other B1/B2 visa in a passport. A mexican citizen can travel 25 miles into the US with NO I-94 (white permit or permiso). The limit is 75 miles in Arizona. They can stay within the 25 or 75 mile limit for 30 days without a permit. If they want to go further or stay longer they need to get a white I-94. There really is no “test” as you speak of. Most CBP Officers just stamp the passport or permiso and send them on their way. It does depend on the port, but national policy is that as long as the person can prove residence in Mexico they can’t really be denied unless there are other circumstances such as past history or national security issues, which is almost never the case for Mexicans… The white I-94 is the exact same “permit” that visitors by air (minus visa waiver countries) get when they come to the United States. Its really not that hard. I think people don’t realize that probably 98% of people (including Mexicans) enter and exit this country with no problems and without breaking any laws.

         I would not say the system tries to separate families. If you and you wife want to live in the USA she (and if she has children) is virtually guaranteed a resident card. It has like a 97% success rate. Now, talking about family of family, well they have to qualify on their own for a tourist visa. They can however apply for resident visa based on family ties to the US, but yes, that can take a while.

         If all your wife is going to do is come to the US to visit your family, go shopping, vacation, etc then she doesn’t really need a permanent resident card. There are just too many responsibilities (i.e taxes,reporting requirements, etc) to go with it. If you will live in the USA then yes apply for the resident card. i would be very careful how you do things as to not incriminate yourself or her in what COULD be considered visa fraud by consular officers, uscis officers, or CBP Officers/Border Patrol Agents.

         Be careful with some of those charities, especially in Mexico, they might not tell you what the actual law is. if everything is legit and you are going to live in the US, you do NOT need a lawyer, save your money. getting the paperwork isn’t too difficult.

         Another thing you can do (if you have lived abroad, in this case Mexico) is do what is called DIRECT CONSULAR FILING. It is very very fast compared to an Immigrant Visa, K-3 non-immigrant visa, or even adjusting status within the US. However, just like applying for an immigrant visa in Mexico, this will involve a trip to Ciudad Juarez.
       • yucalandia says:

         July 28, 2015 at 3:44 pm

         therumjournal (TRJ) and sdibaja,
         TRJ has given you answers that fit what we have read in the past, with practical advice on how the US systems work.

         Similar to TRJ’s advice, we have successfully gotten all of my wifes visas into the USA and her prior permanent resident card without using a lawyer, but we recognize that some people are intimidated by govt. forms and need help with them.

         Best of luck resolving your visa permit issues,
         steve
       • sdibaja says:

         August 26, 2015 at 9:18 am

         Update: had our consult with the counselor at Catholic Charities in Chula Vista yesterday (8/25/2015). It was a waste of the $30 fee. It is clearly a commercial enterprise that you pay to fill out forms. The consoler was arrogant, rude, and abrasive.
         She did confirm a few things I already knew from visiting the Consulate and Immigration websites, but that was the limit. I total waste of our time.
         She did he very best to scare the hell out of my wife saying it was urgent to enlist her help or she could loose he existing permit, forever. It worked, my wife was very shaken. We stopped in San Ysidro and went into a Legal Office. We were quickly schooled in the real world issues for her, she relaxed and we went home.
         We will make an appointment in a Consulate and begin the process by ourselves.

         To be fair, Catholic Charities in Chula Vista probably deals only with illegals that already reside in the US, crossed over without permission, and speak no English. That is completely different, and they have no clue.

         My best, Peter
       • Therumjournal says:

         August 26, 2015 at 10:12 am

         Yes, like I said before, most of those places are kind of a waste of time and money. The process is very simple if you follow the directions and aren’t trying to “beat” the system. In your case, your wife is eligible for a LPR card through marriage, but by HER not living in the USA she is technically breaking the law and potentially commuting visa fraud. However, if you can find a place to “live” for a few months, you can adjust her status and it is a lot faster than going through the consulate… Trying to get the visa to enter the U.S. And then adjust status is an extra step and. A waste of time and money…
       • yucalandia says:

         August 26, 2015 at 1:49 pm

         Thanks for the good update…
       • sdibaja says:

         August 26, 2015 at 2:30 pm

         Thanks Therumjournal and Steve.
         We will follow the proper process using the “Get a Green Card While Outside the United States” as described on http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-through-family/green-card-immediate-relative-us-citizen (however I do get nervous when I see “Last Reviewed/Updated: 03/30/2011” at the bottom of the page…)
         I am too old and forgetful to be telling fibs (as I was advised yesterday). I could get confused and say some crap that conflicts. I do remember the truth and can repeat it every darn time.
         I will report back on our success/failure 🙂

424. Pingback: INM Issues New 2015 Residency Application Forms | Surviving Yucatan

425. Elizabeth says:

     August 7, 2015 at 9:36 am

     Hi Steve, If I am applying for a visa to work? (Due to job offer). Is it called a RESIDENTE TEMPORAL Lucrativa with PERMISSION TO WORK. What is the oficial name.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 7, 2015 at 11:36 am

       Yes, some INM offices and some Consulates refer to it as a visa de Residente Temporal Lucrativa … while others use the terminology visa or permiso or tarjeta … de Residente Temporal para realizar actividades lucrativas or

       “Residente Temporal con permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas“.

       and sometimes: Residente Temporal con permisión de trabajo

       All of these terms have been used in INM, SRE (consular), and Aduana/SAT websites in the past 3 years
       … to describe a “working” Residente Temporal permit/visa.

       Helpful?
       steve

       Reply
426. Dave says:

     August 31, 2015 at 4:48 pm

     Hi Steve,

     I am applying for a permit to leave Mexico while my temporary residency card is being processed. To pay the fees at the bank: do I pay them first and get a receipt, or stand in line and get some payment voucher to take to the bank? Thanks!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 31, 2015 at 6:15 pm

       Hi Dave,
       INM will give you a document (payment voucher) to take to the bank.
       steve

       Reply
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       August 31, 2015 at 8:21 pm

       I have seen somewhere buried in the mass of documents on the Web the voucher form for that.

       Reply
427. Catherine Glashier says:

     September 25, 2015 at 12:02 pm

     My Mexican partner is going to be starting a business in La Paz and would like to hire me (British) to work for him. In your opinion what is the best the of visa to apply for? Would it be better to apply for a Visitor Visa with Permission to Engage in Lucrative Activities or would we be better to apply through a Temporary Residence Visa? Also can this all be done once we are in Mexico or will I need to return to the UK to be issued a visa. We both currently live in BC, Canada. Thanks in advance for any assistance pointing us in the right direction.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 25, 2015 at 6:05 pm

       Hi Catherine,
       As long as you have a visa to be in Canada, you can go to a Mexican Consulate in Canada.

       As described above in the compare and contrast Residente Permanente and Residente Temporal section, you may be better off applying for a Residente Permanente visa … or Residente Temporal con permiso de trabajo can also work.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
428. stanley cummings says:

     September 27, 2015 at 11:47 am

     i am in mexico on a 180 day visa….am us citizen…wife is mexican citizen with a green card i90 for the us…my 180 day expires soon…is there anything i can to het the 180 day visa extended…thanks

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 27, 2015 at 8:12 pm

       Hi Stanley,
       Go to a border … or … Have a verified medical emergency …

       Reply
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       September 27, 2015 at 9:56 pm

       If your visit is short and one time, yeah, better go to the border. Over the years many people have wanted to extend what they were told when they got it was for 180 days, and not extendible. As far as I know, no one has succeeded, though under the new laws many report there is only a fine for each day you go over.

       If you are with a car on a Temporary Import Permit, then things get really hairy and scary, and some cars have been confiscated. Don’t whine as much as you might feel that way, get to the border ASAP. The TIP ceases automatically the instant your FMM is canceled, though there is a five day permit to take your car out if it becomes illegal. Yucalandia has another page like this one, just on cars.

       If you are thinking of staying a long time or forever, I have a Family Unity residency based on my wiife’s Mexican citizenship. For this, you must go to the closest INM, Mexican immigration office, in your state, and apply. You didn’t say how much time you have left on the FMM. You do not go to the consulate in the USA.

       I have never been asked to show income for Family Unity, though I cannot say it will not happen when I apply for permanent residence. And, such things do seem to vary slightly by state. When I had the old FM-3 I did have to show my bank and income information.

       You renew once, as I have done, then you apply for Permanent residency, or bail by leaving and starting over, but I am not sure about that approach.

       After the second year, you are routed into Permanent residency, and at that time you can apply for Mexican nationality.

       If you have a US car, when you change to permanent residence, you must either import it (must be done at the border) or take it out and leave it out. I will be trying to go to McAllen to import my car the coming month. See Yucalandia’s car page.

       Remember I am talking about Family Unity here. If you chose to do that, we need to chat, heh, heh. You need to register your US marriage. Many have reported being unable to do it, but they tried to do it at their state office, sometimes waiting a very long time before being rejected. And, then choosing to re-marry.

       We called the state office as most said we needed to do, and were told to go to her native village, and with the usual certified translations, the local marriage registrar registered it by writing it on her 1942 birth certificate and making us up a marriage
       certificate signed by the president of our county.

       The only reason that took any time at all was because the president was very busy and the registrar had to make an appointment with the president to explain what she was doing before the president would sign it.

       I have more info if you need it, post here, I get notified fi there are now postings.

       But, as I said if this is a one time visit and you have no intention of a long term stay, just hit the border. some offices make you wait three days for a new FMM.

       Reply
429. Therumjournal says:

     September 27, 2015 at 6:53 pm

     You could ask for an extension of your tourist visa… Why not file for residency? That would be the easiest and most logical…

     Reply
430. Steve says:

     October 6, 2015 at 6:12 pm

     Hi,

     This website is an incredible resource for those with an interest in Mexico.

     I’m an American with legal residency in El Salvador and have been living here for 10 years.

     I’m giving some thought to moving to Mexico. If I made the move, my girlfriend, a Salvadoran by birth, would need to receive permission to live in Mexico, too. That’s the issue that I have.

     I, myself, can easily meet the requirements for the Temporary or Permanent Resident visa in Mexico.

     But how would I go about receiving permission for my girlfriend? For a wife or family member, I can see the options available on this website. But a girlfriend?

     Tourist visas for Americans, generally, are for six months. If one lived in Mazatlan, it wouldn’t be much of an inconvenience to have to drive to Nogales every six months.

     But are Salvadorans eligible for six month tourist visas? If one were to live in southern Mexico, travelling to the Guatemala border every six months would be an inconvenience, but could be done – if that was the only type of Visa available to her.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 7, 2015 at 6:59 am

       Wikipedia says your girlfriend needs a visa.

       Once in Mexico, you two may apply as concubinatos – which would allow her to get the same visa status as you, using the Vinculo Familiar process described above.
       Happy Trails, steve

       Reply
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       October 7, 2015 at 2:17 pm

       I try to discourage people from thinking the FMM is good for six months. It is only good for 180 days. In case you think I am nit-picking, those three fewer days have caused people some grief and/or fines over the years.

       It gets worse for those who have their cars with them on a TIP.

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         October 8, 2015 at 6:59 am

         good point!
431. Peggy says:

     October 13, 2015 at 2:04 pm

     Hi,

     First, thank you for the wealth of information on this website! We appreciate it.

     We are US citizens applying to get our initial Mexican Residente Temporal status. We have already taken all our paperwork to the local Mexican Consulate office in the US, paid the fee, and received the one-time use Mexico visas. I understand we have 30 days after entering Mexico to continue the process at an INM office. So far, so good……… but I have a few quick questions:

     1. The Consulate gave us a list of items to take to the INM office, but this blog has several additional documents listed. Do we need to take copies of bank statements again even though these were reviewed and copies kept at the Consulate office in the US? Are we going to have to prove financial income requirements again?

     2. The Consulate also did not mention the INM online application, but I realize it might be a new requirement. Should we complete this now or wait until we travel to Mexico in a few days?

     Thanks for any help!
     Peggy

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 13, 2015 at 3:33 pm

       Hi Peggy,
       Some INM offices are asking for bank statements, while most do not. Check with them.

       We have not used the Consulate/canje route – but there is a canjear option in the section of “What are you applying to do?”. In the past, friends said they had to fill this out, to enter your personal information into the INM database – saving time at the INM office … but we have not heard any recent reports from INM offices.

       Could you check with your INM office, and come back and tell us exactly what they wanted – to offer the most current information for other readers?
       Thanks,
       steve
       Current first

       Reply
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       October 14, 2015 at 12:37 pm

       When dealing with any government office in any nation, those with experience will tell you that too much documentation in your hands is better than not enough. If you can, take the bank statements, is my recommendation. If for some reason you cannot, then play it by ear if they ask.

       Reply

432. Pingback: Moving to Mexico: FMM, FM2, FM3, or Inmigrado? | Surviving Yucatan

433. Elizabeth says:

     October 16, 2015 at 2:05 pm

     We are making our move to Mexico on Sunday. I wanted to say two things. First, thank you for the tremendous service you provide through this website. It has been invaluable. And second, a lady named Monica at the Mexican Consulate in New Orleans is one of the kindest, most helpful people I have EVER met in all my life. She went waaaaay above the call of duty in helping us solve some problems. I cannot recommend using the Mexican Consulate in New Orleans highly enough to get your Visas. They provide spectacular service..

     Cheers!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 16, 2015 at 3:41 pm

       Hooray !

       Safe travels,
       steve

       Reply
434. jonathan webb says:

     October 19, 2015 at 5:19 pm

     I went to the Mexican consulate got the visa sticker in the passport (qualify for permanent resident) went into mexico did the INM fingerprints/ CURP was told to wait 2 weeks and check online to pick up the permanent resident card in 2 weeks. it has now been 40 days (after I was told to wait 2 weeks to check online for the card) and all I see is:

     10/09/2015 El trámite ha sido registrado Delegación Federal en Baja California
     10/09/2015 Ha sido asignado el tipo de trámite Delegación Federal en Baja California
     10/09/2015 Un pago ha sido registrado Delegación Federal en Baja California
     10/09/2015 Se emitió oficio Delegación Federal en Baja California
     10/09/2015 Registre los datos para la expedición de su documento migratorio Delegación Federal en Baja California
     I paid someone to process and communicate with the INM (he says that the INM “might” have a backlog from moving their offices 2 or 3x within the las 8 months from combining 2 locations in Tijuana..
     I feel missled whe the agent with a smile on her fave said “just 2 weeks” to pick up the card.. anyone have any ideas before I decide to surrender and start tolook for a country that will honor what they say (within reason) I feel “stuck” here and cant leave to cross the border to go shopping… check on my USA mail…eat at black angus steak house with friends… and when my rep checks it (1x a week) he says that “they are printing new cards the next day” but cant even get them to give him a “status” check (I ask did they lose my file? what is the average time for other people to be processed??) all I get is vague non descriptive answers. any ideas would be appreciated thanx

     Reply
435. jonathan says:

     October 19, 2015 at 7:23 pm

     sorry I messread your last reply and am just tired of waiting for INM to print the card after 40 days after approval I am almost ready to give up and just enter and leave mexico like I did over the last 10+ years on a “tourist” visa and renew it every 6 months Is there anything I can do to help EXPEDIATE their printing of the resident card??? I keep checking on the internet and sending a rep there 1x a week and I am in LIMBO maybe they are deporting too many south americans and not enuf people are assigned to print resident cards for americans that have been approved for permanent status?? I am trying to live legally within the laws and am seriously thinking about just looking at other countries that will not have a problem with me spending my money there if this keeps on not progressively not going forward

     Reply
436. Raj says:

     October 19, 2015 at 8:44 pm

     Hi Friends,
     I’m an Indian getting married to a Mexican citizen. Going through the website I understood that I can get temporary residency visa for 2 years after marriage. I would like to know if I can able to work with this visa, if yes how hard is to get a job without knowing Spanish.

     Thanks

     Reply
437. Marcie Cavanagh says:

     October 20, 2015 at 7:00 am

     Morning Steve,
     I find ALL your responses to be VERY helpful, quick and right to the point. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
     Marcie

     Reply
438. playaright says:

     October 20, 2015 at 7:40 am

     Now that is sound advice Steve!! Choosing happiness is hard for some. Just so you know, we so appreciate everything you do. We would not have made it here without the help of Yucalandia and yourself. Cheers to you all!!

     Reply
439. Terri says:

     October 20, 2015 at 11:05 am

     Should I be worried out our tramites and go to the immigration office and ask them what is going on? It has been 35 days since we applied. Having applied for permanent residency status (from residente temporal) on September 15, when I check the status online, my husband’s tramite progress has not moved forward – only the first step shows (which is that the tramite has been recorded). I have a couple more steps added to mine. So far my steps are:

     5/09/2015 El trámite ha sido registrado Delegación Federal en Yucatán
     29/09/2015 Ha sido asignado el tipo de trámite Delegación Federal en Yucatán
     06/10/2015 Un pago ha sido registrado Delegación Federal en Yucatán

     I am more worried about my husband’s tramite. Should I wait a couple more weeks? I have been thinking of requesting permission to leave the country to return for Thanksgiving since I haven’t received a decision on my application, but I’m wondering if I should give it a little more time. What do you think?

     Reply
     • playaright says:

       October 20, 2015 at 11:50 am

       Hi there Terri, we had the exact same issue with our application. There was a mistake on my husbands application, but not mine. We did not find out about it until we WENT IN and asked why the discrepancy between mine and my husbands. (the mistake was we put the wrong city in “where he was born”, we misunderstood and thought it was city we lived in)

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         October 21, 2015 at 6:15 am

         Hi playa,
         Good story, helpful to the rest of us, excellent sleuthing about the cause.

         In our experience, if any step is taking more than 2 weeks, then it’s worth a visit to the INM office to prod the process and check what may be causing the hang-up/delay.

         It would be very cool if INM used the email addresses we give them and sent us email notifications … even simple generic emails just telling us to come in to the office … but that hasn’t happened for us since 2013.
         Thanks again,
         steve
     • yucalandia says:

       October 21, 2015 at 6:11 am

       Hi Terri,
       Yes, go in and check (soon). Ask what documentation or changes may be needed.
       steve

       Reply
       • Yahoo says:

         October 21, 2015 at 6:58 am

         Steve, my 180 days began on May 1. I had a hip replacement one week ago and will not have my surgeons permission to travel until Nov 16 or so. What trouble am I in for? Will I not be allowed back home to Mexico?

         Scared, Dianne

         >
       • yucalandia says:

         October 22, 2015 at 7:39 am

         Hi Dianne,
         INM does sometimes allow medical exemptions for missing dates. Take in a note from your doctor to your Mexican Consulate, explaining the medical problem.

         They may make you start-over at a Consulate, applying at the Consulate for a new residency visa.
         steve
       • Terri says:

         October 21, 2015 at 3:13 pm

         Thanks for your advice Steve. We’ll visit the immigration office tomorrow.
440. hollyalanataylor says:

     October 21, 2015 at 7:23 am

     Hello!
     Firstly, thanks for this website – it really assisted in my transition to Mexico!
     I just want to know what happens if I change employer. I currently work as a teacher for a large firm which processed my visa.
     How do I know that I can work for another company (or school, I’m a teacher) legally? Is my residente temporal with permission to work tied to the job I currently have, or do I have freedom to change? I know that I need to notify INM of a change if it happens but I want to know if I need to be certain the business can hire foreigners first, I don’t want to get into any trouble.
     I hope this makes sense!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 22, 2015 at 7:40 am

       Hi Holly,
       You can freely change jobs – notifying INM of the change.
       steve

       Reply
       • hollyalanataylor says:

         October 22, 2015 at 9:36 am

         Hi Steve, that’s great to hear, thank you!
         Do you know if the new company needs any sort of permission to hire me? Since my current company were the ones who ‘invited’ me and were obligated to start the process with the INM, do the new company need to do anything?
         Holly
441. Steve C. says:

     October 26, 2015 at 4:54 pm

     using a new keyboard, so accidently lost what I’d previously written.
     ————
     Looking at the website for Chevrolet in Mexico, I see that the lowest price for a 2016 Chevrolet Equinox is about 350,000 pesos (about $56,000 USD). I can buy that same vehicle in Tucson for about $24,000 USD. Maybe this is the reason that Americans drive American-plated vehicles with a TIP sticker (Tempoorary Importation Permit) in Mexico!

     I currently have residency in El Salvador. The category of residency that I have allows for the importation of a vehicle every five years, duty-free. Does such a benefit exist in Mexico?

     How do new residents from the U.S. deal with this differential in pricing? I don’t think this price is due to the fact that the vehicle is manufactured in Canada. Even if it was made in Mexico, they would still charge that price, Capitalism being what it is. Not to mention Corruption being what it is, as there IS a NAFTA free trade agreement in effect! Yes?

     There is a free trade agreement in effect in Central America, too (CAFTA). It costs me an arm and a log to import things from trhe United States.

     So to quote Trump, the Mexicans ARE “cunning”. And to quote Trump again, the U.S. government’s free trade negotiators are “incompetent”. His words, not mine.

     http://www.chevrolet.com.mx/equinox.html

     Reply
442. Therumjournal says:

     October 27, 2015 at 8:28 am

     Sir, 350,000 mexican pesos is actually about $21,200 give or take. Your math is a little off. And to the contrary, my father bought a new Crv decked out and it cost him about $26,000 including the 16% sales tax. A similar model in the USA is about $31,000 plus tax, title, license… I’m not sure about all cars, but there are definitely some better deals with the exchange rate… Granted, the Crv is made in Mexico, not sure about the Chevy. Also I have priced a Toyota Tacoma trd at about 4K less than the us price.

     Reply
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       October 27, 2015 at 9:34 am

       Good catch, Rum. Peso has been running about 17 to the dollar, not 6.25.

       Is the tenencia still in effect? Back in 1968, the Federal government of Mexico implemented a tax on new cars to fund the Olympics. 10% the first year; 9% the second year; 8% the third year, for a total of 55% of the original purchase price.

       Governments being what governments are, they somehow absent-mindedly forgot to cancel it once the Olympics were paid for. In recent years, the car people have been petitioning to have it repealed, because it obviously harms car sales.

       But, I do not know its current status. It matters to me because I need to buy a used car before spring. And, if it is less than ten years old, or tenencia was not paid, I will get clobbered for it. I do know if the old tenencia was not paid on an older car, they do not forget.

       I am sure of this because last year a neighbor borrowed money to pay it on an old early 90’s pickup. It had been parked and not driven for many years, and when he got money to fix it up, discovered there was some unpaid tenencia due on it, plus I think a modest fine.

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         October 28, 2015 at 10:29 am

         Hey Bruce,
         The tenencias are totally up to each state.

         e.g. Our state (Yucatan) only assesses them on vehicles over … $300,000 pesos.

         So, we’ve not had to pay tenencias since 2007 (mas o menos),
         steve
     • Steve C. says:

       October 27, 2015 at 3:27 pm

       I checked currency dot com yesterday and was certain the conversion came to that $50,000+ number. My bad. Thanks for correcting my error!

       Reply
443. Therumjournal says:

     October 27, 2015 at 10:15 am

     Bruce, I am not 100% but I recall my wife mentioning this and she was paying it in Sonora a few years ago when I met. She said it was so bad people were going to chihuahua and Sinaloa I think to register their cars. I think she said in Sonora it has been repealed, but talk about robbery. She had a small crappy car and was paying about $300-400/yr.

     My father has bought two cars in QR… The first time I know he paid the tenencia. We had no idea until we went to buy the new Crv. My wife was with us and mentioned it so we asked the dealer. He said with a permanent resident card they could go down to the tax office and “work a deal”. He was pretty emphatic my dad wouldn’t pay it. Sure enough he didn’t have to pay it as citizens in QR were exempt I think but showing his RP card they allowed him to not pay it??!! The whole thing was weird so it might vary by state. As I think about it my dad bought two other cars from a different dealer and probably paid it, then this different dealer helped us. Saved hundred of dollars!

     I remember when we lived in AZ registration his first year on a Mercedes e 350 was $1000us!!!! The second year was like $820. I had a Honda Accord and was paying about $350.

     Reply
444. Alejandra Liora Adler says:

     October 30, 2015 at 10:13 am

     My husband and I have Tarjetas de Residente Temporal which expire on Feb 23, 2016. We have been out of Mexico since December of 2014 due to a brain surgery that was needed and the follow-up with the doctors in the US. We want to return to Mexico to renew our Residente Temporal visas though we cannot still stay too long due to recurrent seizures due to the surgery and the need to be in physical touch with my doctors in the US who are monitoring my health. My questions are: Is there a problem for us with being out of Mexico for more than one year if we re-enter in February, 2016 before our temporary resident cards expire? How long will it take to get a renewal of the resident cards? If we need to leave before the cards are received can we arrange for someone else to pick up the cards and send them to us in the US? Are there special requirements for that person (ie carta de poder?) We have had the temporary resident cards since Feb 23, 2013. What papers do we need to bring along for the renewal of our temporary resident cards? What are the rules for allowance of being out of the country considering my health situation? I am 69 years and my husband is 66 years old. We should be able to meet any financial requirements and we own a house in Mexico though it is in my son’s name. Any advice would be much appreciated.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 30, 2015 at 3:40 pm

       Hi Alejandra,
       Everything you are proposing is possible depending on your local INM offices policies.
       ~ You must file online and go into your INM office before your Residente Temporal (RT) visa(s) expire.
       ~ Contact your local INM office (or go on a local expat forum) to find out exactly what your local INM office requires for RT visa renewals.

       ~ You must be present for the INM second or third visit, when they fingerprint you and get your official signature for the RT visa card.

       ~ Some INM offices allow your formal official legal representative to pick up your INM cards when finished … others do not. Talk with a good local lawyer or facilitator who knows if/how this can be done at your office.

       ~ Some INM offices are processing renewal applications quickly, producing visa cards in just 2 weeks, while others take 4 weeks, and there are recent reports of some offices taking 6 weeks. CHECK WITH YOUR LOCAL OFFICE.

       (If you leave, Your representative would have to send you the finished cards back in the USA for you to use when you re-enter Mexico.)

       ~ If your INM office takes longer than you can tolerate medically … you could file for the special INM exit/re-entry letter for traveling abroad while your visa application is being processed. That special letter is free, and allows up to 6 months of international travel without losing your visa status.

       All the best,
       steve

       Reply
445. Steve C. says:

     November 4, 2015 at 3:35 pm

     I have a question about a vehicle manufactured in Celaya, Mexico. It is a new Honda CR-V sold in Central America (Mexico, too?), which I presume would have a Mexican VIN number. The torque and horsepower of the motor is slightly less than trhe CR-V sold in the U.S. Would that vehicle be able to be registered in the U.S.?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 4, 2015 at 9:11 pm

       Hi Steve,
       NAFTA specifies that the USA is supposed to allow the importation of Mexican or Canadian manufactured vehicles … BUT …

       Each of the 3 countries are allowed to set their own safety and environmental emissions standards.

       To our understanding, the vehicles manufactured in Mexico for the Mexico & Central American markets are generally NOT designed to meet either US safety nor US emissions standards.

       The vehicle (with Mexican plates) can be taken into the USA for up to a year … but … to permanently import it, you would need to check with the USA (generally using a specific VIN number) to see if that Mexican-sold or Central American-sold vehicle was manufactured to meet US DOT and EPA standards.
       steve

       Reply
       • Steve C. says:

         November 4, 2015 at 9:57 pm

         I was informed by the local dealership here, that had contacted American Honda, that all CR-V’s are manufactured in Mexico and that the one’s sold in Central America WOULD NOT meet U.S. emission standards. So I’m curious what it would cost to bring it up to that standard. Are we talking thousands of dollars just for the emissions issue? Also, is there an issue with safety by way of airbags and what would that cost to bring it up to standard?

         I told the dealership here that I was considering moving to Mexico, but was interested in knowing what their vehicles were priced at. My preference is a GMC Terrain. That make is not sold in Central America, though.
       • yucalandia says:

         November 5, 2015 at 6:59 am

         Hi Steve,
         Good questions. … but out of our wheelhouse.
         steve
     • sdibaja says:

       November 5, 2015 at 7:24 am

       Steve C.
       it is very complex, and very expensive.
       read thru this article to get a flavor of just some of the issues you are up against: http://www.expedition-imports.com/CARB-Changes-the-Policy-Again_b_39.html

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         November 5, 2015 at 5:23 pm

         I worked in a contract defense plant for over 30 years. I can tell you any time you are dealing with government certification, you have a mess of documentation to deal with. The automotive certification is really hard to write about, because they do add in exemptions that apply to few people. So, I am going to tell about water heaters certified for mobile home installation.

         In 1997, we bought an old mobile home in McAllen, Texas. The water heater was bad, so we called an installer. He told me he could not legally install a water heater that was not certified or he would be put out of business.

         He said he and other installers had compared the certified WH and non-certified and did not find one tiny screw nor valve that was different. Not one.

         I understood, not sure if I can make sense out of it. If a company wants to sell mobile home certified water heaters, they need to start the certification process with documents, similar if not identical to our documents in the defense plant. They need to describe in great detail how many of what type they are going to produce.

         In these days, the factory must pass some sort of inspection, such as ISO, to make sure the product is built perfectly per documentation.

         Then, they need to run a variety of tests, as described in the government certification documents. Examples: how much heat is transferred to adjacent house materials. How much flash, if any comes out when the burner turns on. And, a lot more.

         Need I say every piece of equipment used in the tests must be also equally documented and calibrated? Any errors are treated harshly.

         And, the tests must be run exactly as specified. A few years ago, during the Mad Cow scare, one meat packer said they had bought excellent lab equipment and were going to test each cow slaughtered. The Feds said if you do, we will bankrupt you with fines. Our regulations specify a complex sampling method and 100% testing is not in compliance. I wish I were making this up.

         Then, they must specify serial numbers to be assigned to the WH. And, only those serial numbers can be certified. Period.

         It matters not if they make all their water heaters exactly the same. Only those listed as certified are legal. And, there may also be a requirement from time to time, to pull a sample out of production and repeat some of the tests.

         When a new car model is produced, they do a lot of tests to certify the model. Smog and crash testing are the best known, but there may be others. Cars to be sold in the USA must be certified to meet US standards. If there are Mexican standards, (I am sure there are because Mexico City has a terrible smog problem) cars exported directly to Mexico must be certified to meet the Mexican standards.

         Even if you had a bunch of cars certified for Mexico and made exactly the same as the US certified cars, because the testing and documentation is different, you can’t simply ship a Mexican certified car into the USA. Or vice-versa.

         On the Cartalk forums, we are often reminded that putting all the correct safety and smog items on a foreign car does not get it admitted to the US. When there are specific provisions in Federal Law for the special testing described here, then you can do it. Otherwise, don’t even try. If it’s not certified, you can’t bring it in except as specifically provided in the regulations.

         Who is going to pay $40,000 or more for a used car to get it past the harsh paperwork requirements?

         In the defense plant where I worked, there were identical products that we sold to commercial aircraft, and also to the government. The government products cost 30% more, solely due to documentation and certification costs. Not that commercial stuff was slam dunk.

         Let me say in all seriousness, if you understand what I wrote here, I probably didn’t explain it correct. It takes a long time to grasp government documentation systems. Their rules generally are not totally rational.
446. Terri says:

     November 21, 2015 at 12:09 pm

     Steve, it is the INM office at 8th and Colon in Merida.

     Reply
447. Mark Emmer says:

     November 21, 2015 at 1:34 pm

     Wow. You folks are really having problems in other parts of the country. At INM in Morelia, Michoacan, you go initially to make the application and are told to come back one week later for fingerprinting and to pay the final fee. The card is ready the following day, although they may tell you to come back a week later. In several cases, folks who came in for their fingerprint appointment just when the office opened at 9 a.m. were told to come back just before 1 p.m. when it closes to pick up their card the same day. It’s been this efficient for several years. The office is not overloaded, and I’ve always found the officials to be knowledgeable and polite. Sometimes you get an e-mail telling you to come in, sometimes not, and sometimes your status is not updated on the web page until after you come in, but otherwise, it’s a very smooth operation.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 22, 2015 at 9:00 am

       Hi Mark,
       This problem just started within the last 3 months.

       Are your experiences with the Morelia, Michoacan office that recent, or are they from earlier in the year?
       steve

       Reply
448. Therumjournal says:

     November 21, 2015 at 2:55 pm

     It took me about 2 months to get my temporary card at the Cancun office. It was a fiasco there. A lot of Cubans and Central Americans getting residency or the amnesty… I wonder what other offices are easy going and less hassle

     Reply
449. Mark Emmer says:

     November 22, 2015 at 10:29 am

     Steve, my experience is quite recent. Applied for RP (based on four years at RT) on 28-Oct-2015, paying application fee of $1,124. Gave them photos and Formato Basico at the same time. Came back on 4-Nov-2015 for fingerprints and to pay fee of $4,289. Received an e-mail from INM on 5-Nov saying my RP card was ready to be picked up.

     Since this Residente Permanente was based on time, not income or assets, I did not have to supply bank statements or even a comprobante.

     All of my friends have been reporting similar interactions for several years, and I’ve never heard of an endless delay at this office.

     Lic. Vanessa Castillo Sahagun who is the subdirector of the Morelia INM office is a jewel — efficient and knows the regulations. Sometimes she’s even downstairs at one of the front-line desks, working with applicants.

     Mark

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 22, 2015 at 6:06 pm

       Thank you so much for the excellent update.
       steve

       Reply
450. vallewineblog says:

     November 22, 2015 at 10:46 am

     My papers were sent to Hermosillo for approval which only took a few days. The lengthy wait time here has been waiting for the card since submitting photos and fingerprints. My understanding from the INM staff is that the information is submitted to Mexico City electronically and that the cards are printed in Mexico City. I don’t know how it would be possible to get a PR card in one day under this procedure. Could you possibly have one of the older forms of the card where they were made at the local INM office? I have to guess there are few countries where you can become a permanent resident and accomplish all of the paperwork in a few months so I will wait patiently for my card to arrive at my local office here in Sonora.

     Reply
     • David says:

       December 1, 2015 at 9:33 am

       I received my permanent resident card yesterday here in Puerto Penasco. It took six weeks from the date of submitting fingerprints and photos. What I learned from INM staff is that cards are no longer being printed in Mexico City but are printed by the INM Federal Delegation where you submitted your papers. That explains why some areas are much faster than others. In the end, I can’t complaint about any process where you can become a permanent resident of a foreign country for under $400.00 and a few months wait time.

       Reply
       • Barry says:

         December 8, 2015 at 5:48 pm

         In Puerto Vallarta made Permenante application from Temporary 3 weeks ago – just received email notifying application approved and to go to INM Office to pay the 2nd fee and get fingerprinted. Will let U know when we receive final card

451. Pingback: Latin America | A Bird with Wings

452. Therumjournal says:

     December 1, 2015 at 1:44 pm

     Did you apply directly for permanent residency or did you convert from temporary to permanent?

     Reply
     • vallewineblog says:

       December 1, 2015 at 2:03 pm

       I applied within Mexico for a change of status from a 180 day FMM tourist permission and my application was based on family unity (I have a Mexican son).

       Reply
453. Therumjournal says:

     December 1, 2015 at 2:23 pm

     Ok great. Was your child born there or through your mexican spouse or both? I wonder if there is any time difference based on if both parents are foreigners or if one is mexican?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 1, 2015 at 2:37 pm

       Mexican family member is sufficient.

       Parentage of that family member does not matter to the Mex. Gob.
       steve

       Reply
     • vallewineblog says:

       December 1, 2015 at 3:06 pm

       I previously held a temporary resident card some years back based on my marriage to a Mexican national. My wife and I were divorced this year here in Mexico. During the divorce process my wife went to immigration (among other agencies) trying to have me deported as our marriage was ending. The kind people at INM listened to her nonsense and subsequently delivered a letter to me directing me to come into the local office. Instead of the ambush that I had prepared for, the local director told me that my being a father to a Mexican son qualified me for Permanent Resident status and that my wife made a big mistake by trying to bring INM into our divorce. They bent over backwards to assist me with the process. My son is a Mexican by birth (he was born here in Mexico) and is also a U.S. Citizen as he had one U.S. Citizen parent (me) who lived in the U.S. for a minimum of 5 years after the age of 18.

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         December 1, 2015 at 3:21 pm

         Epic! Congratulations! And, people ask why I love Mexico and the Mexican people!
       • yucalandia says:

         December 1, 2015 at 4:18 pm

         Yay !
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         December 1, 2015 at 9:10 pm

         Just an additional tip. I make no secret that i want to die as a Mexican. I was told by our INM in Puebla that as soon as I get Permanent Residence Family Unity, I can go to a different office and apply for whatever you call it: nationality or citizenship. I am not sure of the name. If this interests you, ask when you pick up your PR card.

         There are some requirements. Must be able to speak Spanish. must know Mexican history, though allegedly exempted those over 70 which I am. Someone told me recently that I need to learn the words to the Mexican national hymn. But, nothing unreasonable.

         I understand you may not be interested, since we are all different. But, I thought I’d mention it in case INM did not.
       • yucalandia says:

         December 2, 2015 at 9:12 am

         Good good points.

         After age 59, the test requirements change for Mex. naturalized citizenship applicants … where the SRE offices can still request/require basic conversational Spanish competency, but no written test is required.

         Still, individual SRE office Delegados can and DO establish their own requirements for ALL applicants at their SRE office. e.g. The new Delegado at the Merida SRE office has raised the exam bar for BOTH under-60 and over-60 applicants: Both are now required (by Merida SRE) to speak decent conversational Spanish, as in a conversation you might have on the street. Both are now required (by Merida SRE) to describe and explain the elements of Escudo, the elements of the Bandera … and under-60’s are expected to sing or recite the Coro, Verse 1, Verse 2, and Verse 10 of the Himno … plus under-60’s are required (by Merida SRE) to describe in detail the official Mexican history from pre-Columbian times through the expropriation of petroleum … including precise fechas y nombres .

         Detailed descriptions are in assorted posts here:
         http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=196392;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;page=last;#last

         I’m finishing the process just now … notifying INM … getting my IFE/INE card … and will write up a detailed narrative article when I’ve finished the whole Naturalization process.

         Happy Trails,
         steve
       • vallewineblog says:

         December 2, 2015 at 9:30 am

         Thanks to you both for the information regarding citizenship. I will spend some time over the holidays to consider if this is something that would benefit me. The information is very much appreciated!
       • sdibaja says:

         December 2, 2015 at 10:47 am

         thanks for that Steve, especially the link.
         I too wish to become naturalized, but have feared the Spanish competency part.
         Perhaps I will make a run for it early next year.
         Anybody gone thru the process recently in Ensenada?
         thanks, Peter
454. Therumjournal says:

     December 1, 2015 at 5:08 pm

     @vallewine,

     Would you mind emailing me or sharing your email with me? I would like to ask a few questions if you don’t mind. You are in Sonora and have relating to that state as my wife is from there. I would really appreciate it.

     Reply
     • vallewineblog says:

       December 1, 2015 at 5:24 pm

       David@desertshoresrentals.com

       Reply
455. Terry says:

     December 3, 2015 at 7:50 pm

     Hi there, I am here from South Africa, on a tourist visa. My dad has permanent residence in Mexico. What is the process of changing from a tourist visa here? I am still a tourist, but would like to live here going forward. What is the process?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 3, 2015 at 8:09 pm

       Hi Terry,
       Good for you.
       Read the section above on Vinculo Familiar for details,
       steve

       Reply
456. goattail says:

     December 18, 2015 at 5:30 pm

     Just an update from Puerto Vallarta Jalisco switching to Permanante from Temporal. First application 3 weeks to process – issuing of card after fingerprinting – 10 days.
     One question Steve is that covering letter states “…..accesso a los servicios educativos, medicos y a la procuracion e imparticion de justica.” Previously I applied to IMSS and was turned down by them suggesting that due to my age – late 60’s that I could have issues in the future – does my new status help me?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 18, 2015 at 5:38 pm

       Doubtful. They do have age restrictions and restrictions on pre-existing conditions.
       steve

       Reply
457. Dan says:

     January 4, 2016 at 4:26 pm

     Hi Thanks for the information on this site.
     I am here on a “residente temporal estudiante ” document and I have completed my University degree. I would like to continue living here for a few more years before going back to my country.
     Is it possible to change to temporal resident only from being a student? If yes, what are the requirements? I have a girlfriend here who has her workers permit.
     Can you tell me what options I have?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 4, 2016 at 5:32 pm

       Hi Dan,
       Check with your local INM office.

       Hopefully they have some route for you that doesn’t force you to go to a Mexican Consulate (like Laredo). If you must leave Mexico to apply at a Consulate, find one that currently processes applications in one day, or plan to stay for 3 or for days.
       steve

       Reply
     • Kristi Draper says:

       January 6, 2016 at 4:56 pm

       In 2014 we went to the Orlando MX consulate and received our RP visa sticker in one day.

       Reply
458. Tony Major says:

     January 5, 2016 at 7:13 pm

     Hello,
     Are there translations for the choices to select on the online form needed to be sent in for the permanent residency application?
     Thank you,
     Tony
     tzmajor@yahoo.com

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 5, 2016 at 8:01 pm

       Hi Tony,
       Did you read the section above titled: ” Instructions for the INM Webpage for Visiting Mexico or Moving to Mexico”

       click: https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#INM%20Webpage%20for%20Visiting%20Mexico%20or%20Moving%20to%20Mexico
       

       I believe all the fields you are asking for have English translations listed in this section,
       steve

       Reply
459. Marcie Cavanagh says:

     January 6, 2016 at 11:22 am

     My question is if I live in the state of Nayarit can I go to the offices in either Chapala or Guadalajara to renew my Temporary Residency without having to leave the country? I have reached my 4 year limit and wish to continue being a Temporary resident for purposes of keeping my car in Mexico.
     * * * * * *
     What do You do When You Have Completed 4 Years of Temporary Residency?
     If one wants to continue with another 4 years on a fresh Residente Temporal, then when that foreigner is completing 4 years on a single FM2/FM3 or Residente Temporal permit, the formal rules say they must leave Mexico and return to their home country to file for a new RT permit at a Mexican Consulate in their home country… or switch to 6 month Visitante permits and go to the border every 6 months to renew.

     ALTERNATELY: SOME local INM offices do now process new Residente Temporal permits for previous RT’s who have just completed 4 years of temporary residency (aggregate RT, FM2/FM3, No Inmigrante/Inmigrante years) – issuing a NEW Residente Temporal permit without leaving Mexico. For the INM offices that allow this (like Chapala and Guadalajara and … ?), the foreigner intentionally allows the final year’s RT to expire, and then they go into their INM office immediately after expiration. They pay a modest $1,600 peso “late penalty” fine – and the $1,036 “Regularization” fee, submit bank statements and translations, and pay the normal RT fees. This is all done at your INM office, without going to a Mexican Consulate. Lic. Spencer McMullen’s law firm does this in Chapala without ever going to a Mexican consulate, but realize that INM will will not give us a travel letters during this special process, so, plan to stay in Mexico until your new RT is approved.

     Reply
460. Kristi Draper says:

     January 6, 2016 at 5:00 pm

     How do I check the status of my permanent resident visa application on the new INM website?

     I helped my mom get her PR visa last year and the link (http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php/page/seguimiento_de_tramite) took me to a page where I could log in a username and password to check my status. The INM website has been completely revamped and now that link — the one INM in Playa del Carmen gave me today — goes to a gob.mx beta site. I’ve searched and searched under the Tramites > Migración, visa y pasaporte section and have found nothing that lets me check the status of my application.

     Does anyone know the correct URL for this?? Thanks!!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 6, 2016 at 7:01 pm

       https://www.inm.gob.mx/tramites/publico/seguimiento-tramite.html

       Reply
461. MIsty Quezada says:

     January 10, 2016 at 1:20 am

     My question is.. My husband of 15 years and I are considering moving to Mexico. He has lived in the USA for the past 25 years. We are planning on living on his families land that his other siblings live on in Ixmiquilpan Hildago.

     1. How do we go about me getting residency in Mexico?
     2. Would he need to go to Mexico first to get work established?

     I have an income that will follow me to Mexico but it is just short of the amount I would need to sponsor myself. We are not making this move without a lot of thought and prayer first. Also he is a permanent resident here…Does that affect anything for him in Mexico??

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 10, 2016 at 4:22 pm

       Hi Misty,
       Read the sections above about Vinculo Familiar.
       https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Other Categories/Qualifications that Permit a Foreigner to Become a Residente Permanente

       As the spouse of a Mexican Citizen, you qualify automatically for Residente Permanente visa (or also Residente Temporal). The only reason I could see that you would want a Residente Temporal visa, is if you want to bring a US-plated vehicle, registered in your name, and get that US-vehicle allowed into Mexico using a Permiso de Importación Temporal de vehículos from Aduana/Banjercito.

       Why? Residente Temporal visa holders can bring in ONE US-plated Temporary Import Permit (TIP) vehicle, that is allowed to stay in Mexico as long as your Residente Temporal or Visitante visa does not expire. (up to 4 years for renewing the Residente Temporal visa)

       If you came in as Residente Permanente, you could not bring in a US plated vehicle. Your Mexican citizen husband could bring in one US-plated vehicle under his name using a Permiso de Importación Temporal de vehículos for just 6 MONTHS – and then take it out of Mexico.

       Re you and him coming to Mexico:
       You can both enter together. You get a 6 month visitante visa, and then you go to INM and apply to change to either Residente Permanente or Residente Temporal – using the Vinculo Familiar route.

       Your husband’s US-permanent residency status does not affect Mexico, but he does have to return to the US periodically to keep US-CIS from cancelling his permanent residency.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • RC says:

         January 10, 2016 at 5:37 pm

         Misty,

         Just to follow up with what Steve said about USCIS. He is basically correct. Here is a further breakdown and insight.

         1. In order to be a permanent resident of the US your husband SHOULD be living in the United States. However, there is a way to ask USCIS to allow commuter status under a code C2 so that he may live in Mexico. I don’t think it would be granted since you won’t be living close to the border. But most “permanent residents” who live in Mexico, don’t even bother to get this. They just cross the border daily, and multiple times of day sometimes with no issues, maybe a little hassle by a CBP Officer, but otherwise no real problems.

         2. After 6 months outside of the US, a permanent resident is technically seeking admission (which really doesn’t mean much unless they have been convicted of crimes of moral turpitude).

         3. Your husband can technically be outside of the US for up to ONE YEAR without losing his residency as long as he “seeks to make the US his home”. After one year, CBP or USCIS COULD set him up for a Notice To Appear (NTA) before an immigration judge. Chances are, this will not happen, especially at a land border crossing. Even then, if he “intends” to reside in the US then it probably will not happen. Just make sure the card is not expired! He does not automatically lose his residency, nor does the card automatically become invalid…

         4. Your husband could also ask for an SB-1 visa i believe it is at a US consulate that would allow him to re enter the US without any problems if he has been out of the US over a year. There is also a permission besides C2, I believe, that USCIS could grant him prior to departing the US. You would have to look that up as I forgot what it is exactly.

         In all of my experience, unless your husband has any criminal convictions that are of moral turpitude (and even then, more like a violent felon) he will probably not have any problems, especially at a land border. At an airport, they are a little more strict immigration wise, but there is so much crap going on that they likely will not really care.I have personally seen someone be out of the US for YEARS and be allowed in because they “intended” to reside in the US again. In reality the person was just coming back to renew their residency card.

         He should not have a problem, especially with the current administration. Obviously things change and laws are reactionary, but I wouldn’t worry too much. If you are “returning home” to the US several times a year shouldn’t be an issue. The only person that can legally take away that green card and strip him of his residency is an Immigration Judge (in which case he would have to be set up with an NTA prior to seeing the judge).

         Just a question, why doesn’t he become a US citizen? As a US citizen you can live and be out of the country as much as you want with no problems. It can’t really be a tax issue because as a US resident (green card holder), he is required to report his worldwide income just like a US citizen (although I’m not a tax expert). The green card is easier and cheaper (almost, if not free) to give up whereas to renounce US citizenship is a complicated and expensive process.
462. Bruce McGovern says:

     January 11, 2016 at 11:41 pm

     I have done what you are hoping to do. I will give you as much detail as I can, with the warning that what I write is correct for the State of Puebla. You will have to check everything for yourself in Hidalgo. I hope anyone who sees a mistake or absence of something important, speaks up.

     Soon, get official copies of your own birth certificate and your marriage certificate. In Iowa one gets them from a state office in Des Moines, the capitol of the state.

     Get an apostille for the birth certificate and the marriage certificate. This is normally obtained from the Secretary of the State of the state where the documents are held/created.An apostille is an official seal document accepted per the Hague Convention, and I believe Mexico requires that apostille.

     I am assuming you have or know to get an official US passport that is not close to expiring so am not going to comment further on that.

     At the time we started this, the new law was new. We actually wasted a trip back to the US because we were told we had to initiate it at a Mexican Consulate. They sent us back to INM (immigration office) in our state.

     But, before going to INM you must first do two things.

     1. Get those two documents and their apostilles translated by an official certified translator. That translated makes out the printed copies of the translation and puts his/her official stamp and affidavit on each page of it.

     2. You might need to obtain a constancy document. This is usually made up in the municipal office, and is a legal document which lists all your legal names. The name on your birth certificate may not be the same name on your passport, if you took your husband’s surname in the USA. So, it can help a lot if you get a constancy form with all your names listed on it. In a municipio where they have few foreign spouses you might need legal help. The official translator is a personal friend, and he walked things through for us. In Mexico, a woman’s name does not ever change, so the different surnames on different documents may well be an obstacle.

     3. Register your U.S. marriage in Mexico. We were told as most folks are told to go to the State Registrar’s office. We called them and they told us to go to the village where she was born. So far many folks have reported failure, in some cases after waiting up to two years, with the state registrar.

     The only reason it took us two weeks to register our marriage in the village is the President must sign it, and the marriage registrar had to make an appointment to explain what he was signing and why, and he was busy with elections.

     IF your husband was born in Ixmiquilpan, that is where you probably should ask first. The marriage registrar is usually located in the palace of the Municipio. One problem might be you need to do it in Ixmiquilpan but the registrar does not know how to do it. In cases like that, seek legal help.

     The reason they want you to go there, AT LEAST IN PUEBLA, is because the marriage is registered in the same book on the same page as the citizen’s birth certificate. Our marriage certificate is a small paper with the dates and names and president’s signature, pasted on the same page as my wife’s 1942 birth certificate.

     Our official marriage certificate is a photo copy of that page of birth certificate with the marriage data added, and then the official marriage registrar’s seal on it.

     Before the Mormon’s got Mexico indexed, I could see the original images of all the marriage and birth and death documents. And, that is exactly what the old documents were like. Marriage noted on the birth certificate page.

     WARNING– IF YOU REGISTER YOUR US MARRIAGE, AT LEAST IN PUEBLA, BY DEFAULT, YOU WILL HAVE JOINT OWNERSHIP OF ALL PROPERTY. THE ONLY WAY TO HAVE SEPARATE PROPERTY IS TO FILL OUT THE PAPERS AT TIME OF MARRIAGE. I AM MAKING A TOTALLY WILD GUESS THAT IF YOU WANT SEPARATE PROPERTY YOU WILL NEED TO GET MARRIED AGAIN IN MEXICO, WITH ALL THE CONTRACT DOCUMENTS FOR SEPARATE PROPERTY. I DO KNOW THAT THOSE WHO APPLY TO THE STATE REGISTER END UP MARRYING AGAIN. MY WIFE AND I HAD JOINT PROPERTY IN TEXAS SO THERE WAS NO NEED TO CHANGE ANYTHING. IF THAT LAND IN Ixmiquilpan IS SOMEHOW TIED UP, YOU MIGHT NEED TO TALK TO AN ATTORNEY.

     4. Once we had the documents listed, we got on-line and filled out a tramite, I think it’s called, to pre-apply for the papers. You are given a number which you take to INM, which in Hidalgo is located over in Pachuca. Hours are 9 am to 1 pm. They don’t throw you out at 1 pm. They don’t let anyone else come in later so they have time to complete your transaction. You give them your copy of the tramite which then lets them pull up your papers.

     If you cannot pay in advance, also a form on line you take to several banks and get it stamped ahead of time, you might need to run down the street from INM and find a bank. The reason not to do it ahead of time is it is possible not to get the correct fee numbers and thus not get the job done.

     Oh, rats, I forgot the photos. In Puebla you can get them a couple blocks away. Infantile, certain pose only. You will need that when you apply or need to run out and get them quickly so you are back before 1 pm.

     5. Others have reported being required to show a minimum income. Though I met the requirements, I was not required to show that income, though I did for FM-3. I think it’s a little less for Family Unity, but I am not sure because we didn’t need to do it. In March, I will find out if I have to show it for Family Unity Permanent Residence.

     In Puebla, I was not given a choice on Temporary or Permanent Residence. I had to take the two years of Temporary, then on to Permanent, and as soon as I get Permanent Residence they told me I can apply for nationality. Others in other states were given Permanent Residence at the first application.

     6. There should be no requirement for your husband to establish work. He is apparently a Mexican citizen. Be sure he has his Mexican passport and his military papers and Mexican birth certificate.

     7. Warning: Life for women in Mexico can be harder. Other women expect you to do the domestic chores, even if you were an important career woman in the USA. And, there is seldom a full supply of prepared foods in Mexico. So, you may have to buy the ingredients and cook from scratch. A lot of women eventually bail and go back to the USA.

     You can always find someone to help with house work, but they may not be used to the same standards you are, so that opens new problems for you. And, in Mexico, Federal law puts strict requirements on an employer as to pay, time off work, severance pay at termination whether voluntary or forced. Gifts of food or clothes does not count towards pay minimums.

     One horrible chore unless you can get a suitable wash machine and have water to run it, is washing clothes by hand. I did it, too, for months, so I know what it is like. My wife had a lot of work and I did not have much. So, every morning first thing while my wife cooked, I washed the day’s clothes by hand, rinsed them, and hung them to dry so I did not accumulate a lot at one time. It is really nice to have the automatic washer!

     In most places, you can call a tanker truck (pipa) when you need more water than is supplied by a local system, if one exists. A load of water should not be exorbitant unless there is a very long trip to water sources.

     We have barrels by our Whirlpool machine so we can recycle water for the stools and for cleaning floors and washing cars. You learn ways to save water.

     I forgot. If you want a Mexican driver’s license or bank account, or want certain receipts, you will need a CURP. You get that at the CURP office which is in INM somewhere (for foreigners, your husband should be able to get it at his local palace) but again I am talking about Puebla. If you have time, get it right away after you get your residency card. It doesn’t change once you get it. You print copies of it on the Web once INM inputs it.

     Once you get your CURP number, to get a bank account, you will need an RFC. You can get it online and print it out by inputting your CURP number. It is a take-off of your CURP number with a change of format. This is a taxpayers i.d. but they insist if your income is in the US, you will not need to pay taxes nor file tax forms.

     For bank account or driver’s license you also need to show a current household bill at that address. Telephone or electric bill. It need not be your own but your husband’s name will also do. This is one of those unexplainable quirks that every culture seems to have and may have to be manipulated. I am waiting on my next light bill now so I can open a bank account so I can get money to buy a car for when I get Permanent Residence and my imported car has to be moved back to the States.

     There is an address constancy form to go with the name constancy, but the banks will not accept it, though it is an official government document. At the time we had electricity and phone installed, our town did not have street numbers, but they insisted we must have one. So our builder faked it and we ended up with bad addresses. When they got street numbers, both Electricity and phone insisted we supply a bill with our valid address. We finally got it done with the address Constancy form for electricity and will use it to update our phone address.

     Reply
463. Terri says:

     January 14, 2016 at 10:44 am

     I just received notification by email, which was dated yesterday, Wednesday January 13, that I am supposed to go to the immigration office within three days of having received the email. The last step in my visa status on the INM website says: Registre los datos para la expedición de su documento migratorio (that is the fifth step in my process after having applied for a permanent residency visa). I am currently in the United States, having received a 60-day temporary visa to leave and re-enter Mexico. I still have about 30 days to go on the visa and was going to extend my stay because my father is very sick. Seriously, do I have to appear in three days? Have they finally issued my visa? Actually the email basically says “for CLARIFICATION of this email go to the office where you applied for the visa.”

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 14, 2016 at 2:03 pm

       Hi Terri,
       I would send them an email reply explaining the situation with your father. Ask what information (datos) they need.

       Have you been through fingerprints and submitting fotos?
       steve

       Reply
464. Terri says:

     January 14, 2016 at 2:32 pm

     Hi Steve, since I wrote that a few hours ago I already decided to return to Merida anyway, leaving tomorrow. I have not been through the photo or fingerprinting process yet. If all goes well and I get my visa issued soon, then when I have to return to the U.S. it should be much easier to come and go.

     Reply
465. Disgruntled says:

     January 22, 2016 at 1:47 pm

     Just thought I’d write about my experience about obtaining a permanent residency visa – or what I thought was going to be a permanent residency visa. If I had to do it all over again, I think I would not do it, and just come in on a tourist visa. We applied at the Mexican consulate office in the U.S. last spring and received a temporary resident visa to enter Mexico, and it was my understanding then that we should proceed directly to the immigration office in Merida wherein we could then apply for our permanent residency visa. We had to provide all the financial solvency documentation to the Mexican consulate office in the U.S. I finally have my visa after four months, but it’s another temporary residence visa that is good for only another six months.

     I do not see the point of going through all the rigmarole of going to the Mexican consulate office in the U.S. when one could just as well enter on a tourist visa. I do not see any advantage of a temporary residency visa when a tourist visa also is good for six months. It is also my understanding that we can get a manaje de casa only on a permanent residency visa…so now I have to wait for four years to bring the rest of my stuff down, when I am finally eligible for a permanent residency visa? Whereas if I’m a tourist, I can just bring stuff with me on the airplane. Why does one need to provide proof of financial solvency when they’re only going to be here six months as a temporary resident? If anyone can provide a sound explanation otherwise, I would advise other people going through the same thing to skip the temporary residency visa process.

     Signed,

     Disgruntled

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 22, 2016 at 2:19 pm

       Hi Disgruntled,
       We really appreciate your post!
       It seems you got a series of bad advice ~ which makes your stories a perfect example of how NOT to do things ~ .

       Fortunately, with a little pre-preparatioms: There is lots of good advice on the internet on how to do things smoothly with the Consulates & INM … like the details described in the article above.
       Hint:
       We do not “proceed directly to the immigration office in Merida wherein we could then apply for our permanent residency visa“.

       If you read about how things work (above), we FIRST go to a Mexican Consulate in the USA to apply for either:
       ~ a Residente Permanente visa
       OR
       ~ a Residente Temporal visa

       If you choose the Mexican Consulate carefully, (as described in our article above), most Americans planning to come to Mexico can qualify for a Residente Permanente visa …

       The fact that “Disgruntled” says he:
       “received a temporary resident visa to enter Mexico (from the Mexican Consulate)” … shows that Disgruntled did not understand the process for getting a Residente Permanente visa.

       We write this because THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS “a temporary resident visa to enter Mexico“. It simply does not exist.

       We start the application process for either a Residente Temporal or Permanente visa at a Mexican Consulate. The Consulate then approves our application, and sends us on to the next step of going to Mexico to our local INM office, to complete the process.

       When we leave the Consulate, we do NOT have any kind of “residency visa”, we only get a stamp affixed in our US passport that gives us permission to enter Mexico for 30 days, to complete the residency visa process at our local INM.

       ===================
       While ignoring Disgruntled’s mistaken impressions and mistaken advice … Readers should also ignore Disgruntled’s advice to try to live in Mexico with a series of 6 month tourist/visitante visas.

       It has been widely reported on the internet, across Mexico, that INM agents have been cracking-down on serial tourist-visa users for the past 2 years.

       All it takes is for one INM agent to pull up the serial-tourist visa user’s records, and they see that he/she should have applied for a Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente visa … and they then DENY the serial-tourist visa user entrance into Mexico, and flag their computer record.

       Sure, people have successfully used serial-tourist visas in the past, but the last 2 years of reports of problems, delays, and fines for this, simple lead us at Yucalandia to advise readers to NOT attempt this. It is simply not a reliable way to stay in Mexico.

       Finally, at least 15 years of consistent reports from the border crossings is that we can continue to bring in trailer-loads of personal household goods … basically duty free … as long as we document the contents of every box and the load contents with a Menaje de Casa style list.

       Yes, electronics, large quantities of tools, and enough of any material to start a business do get tabbed for duties, but 1,000’s of personal internet reports confirm that almost all Americans and Canadians are cheerfully waved through Customs (Aduana) with no problems … with occasional minor inspections of our trailer loads.

       If you choose to use a professional mover, or if you enter by sea, then yes, you must have a Consulate approved Menaje de Casa to qualify for no duties.

       1 What Can I Bring into Mexico: Mexican Customs Rules – The Article

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
466. Disgruntled but happy to be here says:

     January 22, 2016 at 2:34 pm

     I appreciate your advice, and I appreciate this forum. A temporary residency visa to enter Mexico indeed does exist, and I can prove it – I have it pasted inside the back of my passport! That is what it says, and it was pointed out to me by the immigration office in Merida that that is what is says, and they said that is why they issued another temporary residency visa. Oh well, I’m not going to worry about it too much. At least I have another six months to live here and the immigration office said that I can apply for permanent residency – I just have to provide all the financial documentation again.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 24, 2016 at 7:40 pm

       Hi Disgruntled,
       I understood which stamp you had in your passport. That stamp is NOT a “Residente Temporal visa“.

       It is a special single-use, 30 day visa, valid only for a limited time n(expires in 60 days) only to enter Mexico once, and valid only for being in Mexico for just 30 days.

       Residente Temporal visas are valid for at least a year.

       GLAD THAT IT IS WORKING OUT FOR YOU !

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
467. Wendy Horn says:

     January 23, 2016 at 9:00 am

     Thank you for all of the assistance I have gleaned over the years by reading this website. Hope there is someone who can advise me on my situation. I have had Residente Temporal status for four years (2012 – 2016) living in Playa del Carmen. My goal has been to get Residente Permanente status/ Unfortunately, I had to be in the US when my RT expired – January 21, 2016. I went online that day to the immigration website and filed a request to change my RT to a RP, thinking that having filed online that day might somehow help me. Now I am wondering what to do next. Should I go to a friendly Mexican consulate in the US and ask to have my RT changed to a RP (I know about the paper work requirements) or go back to Playa, pay a fine for an expired RT (is this possible??) and see if I can change to a RP? I intend to travel back to Playa within the next ten days.

     Thank you for any advice you can provide!!

     Wendy H.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 24, 2016 at 7:36 pm

       Hi Wendy,
       At this point, the renewal issue is partly up to your INM office in PDC.*

       They have the option to charge you a modest fine for being late, and to allow you to apply for RP there.
       or
       They do have the authority to decide to be difficult, and send you back to a Mexican Consulate to start the RP process from scratch.

       We haven’t had any experience with the PDC office, nor have we had reports on how customer-friendly they are.

       *Your current problem may be when you re-enter Mexico (flying into Cancun?), on whether Cancun airport INM agents will allow you to enter with an expired RT visa, to allow you to go to PDC INM to apply for the RP visa.

       We have heard past reports from reliable posters saying that they were scolded by INM Cancun, but allowed to enter.
       steve

       Reply
468. Derek Larson says:

     January 23, 2016 at 3:17 pm

     Steve,

     Last week, I traveled to Queretaro from Jalpan de Serra to initiate my application for temporary residency. I was told that I would receive an e-mail detailing when I can return for fingerprinting. In the meantime, the TIP on my car expires on 29 Jan. What must I do to extend the permit? Do I have to return all the way to the border to do so? My (mexican) wife called the main Aduana help line, and was told by the representative that I must return my vehicle to the US before the expiration date and that it would have to remain in the US for a period of 1 year. I’m a bit confused and frustrated at the moment.

     Derek

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 24, 2016 at 7:31 pm

       Hi Derek,
       Talk with your local Aduana office in Queretaro to find out their current requirements for extending the expiration date on your TIP (esp. without losing the $$ deposit with Banjercito).

       At times, they have accepted formal official copies of our INM documents that prove we have a valid Residente Temporal application in process: e.g. The one that documents our pieza number, NUT number, and contraseña.

       When you are called in to do fingerprinting, you have officially been given Residente Temporal, and formally qualify to extend the expiration date of your Temporary Import Permit.

       It is possible that due to unfortunate timing, you may have to drive to the border to avoid losing the $$ deposit with Banjercito.
       steve

       We have more details on this at our main article on driving a vehicle in Mexico at: https://yucalandia.com/driving-in-mexico-issues-fun/importing-driving-a-car-in-mexico/

       Reply
469. Derek Larson says:

     January 23, 2016 at 3:22 pm

     Steve,

     Last week, I traveled to Queretaro from Jalpan de Serra to initiate my application for temporary residency. I was told that I would receive an e-mail detailing when I can return for fingerprinting. In the meantime, the TIP on my car expires on 29 Jan. What must I do to extend the permit? Do I have to return all the way to the border to do so? My (mexican) wife called the main Aduana help line, and was told by the representative that I must return my vehicle to the US before the expiration date and that it would have to remain in the US for a period of 1 year. I’m a bit confused and frustrated at the moment.

     Derek

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 24, 2016 at 7:29 pm

       Hi Derek,
       Talk with your local Aduana office in Queretaro to find out their current requirements for extending the expiration date on your TIP (esp. without losing the $$ deposit with Banjercito).

       At times, they have accepted formal official copies of our INM documents that prove we have a valid Residente Temporal application in process: e.g. The one that documents our pieza number, NUT number, and contraseña.

       When you are called in to do fingerprinting, you have officially been given Residente Temporal, and formally qualify to extend the expiration date of your Temporary Import Permit.

       It is possible that due to unfortunate timing, you may have to drive to the border to avoid losing the $$ deposit with Banjercito.
       steve

       *We have more details on this at our main article on driving a vehicle in Mexico at: https://yucalandia.com/driving-in-mexico-issues-fun/importing-driving-a-car-in-mexico/

       Reply
470. Dave says:

     January 25, 2016 at 2:22 pm

     Question: Never had to do this before so need an answer as to procedure.
     Wife and I have tourist permit good for 180 days ( the canje/reposicion boxes are NOT checked )
     The permits are good until May19th, 2016
     Entered by land with a car ( TIP good for same period of time )
     Wife has to return to the U.S. for family funeral.
     1) When boarding the plane to the U.S. is she ” required to or will she be asked ” to turn in her 180 permit or does she just say nothing and keep the permit and present her U.S. passport to board the plane
     2) If she keeps the permit , then when she returns by air, will Immigration accept her still valid 180 permit or is she going to have to buy another one.
     Seems like there should be no problem but one can never understand the Mexican rationale

     Reply
471. Bruce McGovern says:

     January 25, 2016 at 2:29 pm

     I am not Yucalandia, but am going to tell what I know Yes, she must turn in her 180 day paper when she leaves, and buy a new one when she returns.

     Beware of the TIP on the car. It is in one of your names, most likely. If it is her name when she turns in the 180 day permit, the TIP instantly expires, which means your car is illegally in Mexico.

     I hope the TIP is in your name. If it is, no problem, it will also expire at the end of 180 days OR when you leave, too.

     Reply
     • cidrni2002David says:

       February 21, 2016 at 10:06 pm

       O.K. here’s an up-date. We drove to Brownsville and did NOT surrender our 6 months visitors permits which are still good until May. Neither did I turn in the corresponding TIP for the car ( also good until May ).
       She flew to visit her Mom and I returned by car and crossed back into Mexico without any question. They looked at the TIP, my passport and 180 day permit and said no problem … on your way. We’ve been doing this for many years now.and have NEVER been asked why didn’t you turn in your permit or your TIP. They seem to understand that both are good for 6 months and a short shopping trip to Brownsville is fine
       However when the wife returned to Mexico by air, Migracion said her 180 day permit was no good but made no fuss whatsoever that she had not turned it in on exiting Mexico.
       She had filled in the visitors form on the plane and they gave her another 180 permit for free.
       Apparently the $22 fee charged by the airline covered the cost of the permit.

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         February 22, 2016 at 10:38 am

         cool…
472. jamesmacmahonHank says:

     January 30, 2016 at 6:34 pm

     Hello,

     Huge thanks for all your wonderful information. You can’t imagine how much good you’re doing and how much you’re improving lives by helping all us people who are trying to get to Mexico. 🙂

     I had a question about the Residente Permanente visa. Do you know if we have to show the financial documentation TWICE? Once when we get our visas in our home country, and again when we get the card within 30 days in Mexico? You were talking about the requirements of places like Chapala and so forth, so that’s what I read into that.

     Thanks!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 30, 2016 at 7:20 pm

       Hi James,
       In legal theory, no, once you prove ‘personal fiscal solvency’ to the Consulate, and the Consulate approves you to come to Mexico to complete the process, that is supposed to be sufficient.

       Are there local INM offices that still require Consulate-approved Residente Visa applicants to show their solvency proofs again at their local INM office?

       The last we heard from INM Merida was: ‘No’.

       Other INM offices?

       It’s likely best to check on a local web-forum to get the latest answer/advice.

       steve

       Reply
       • jamesmacmahon says:

         January 30, 2016 at 7:53 pm

         Thanks!!
       • Kristi Draper says:

         January 30, 2016 at 10:42 pm

         We didn’t have to prove personal fiscal solvency here in Quintana Roo (Playa Del Carmen) once we received our passport permanent resident sticker from the Mexican consulate in the States. We became PR in 2014 and neither did my mother in 2015 when she came to live with us.
473. Paul Carlton says:

     January 31, 2016 at 6:36 am

     Thanks for all the great info!!

     For a RP application, Is it possible to bring in ones goods with a Menaje de Casa having just the temporary visa from the consulate? Or do you have to wait till the actual card issues, then go back and get everything?

     We’ll be flying in just bringing a couple boxes and like 6 suitcases (and 2 cats lol)

     Thanks!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 31, 2016 at 11:09 pm

       Hi Paul,
       Read our main article on Aduana & Moving to Mexico at:
       ~ Are you planning on driving into Mexico with your household goods? ~ Menaje de Casa Rules (English) ~

       1 What Can I Bring into Mexico: Mexican Customs Rules – The Article

       When we drive in with our personal trailerloads of household goods, they generally do only light minimal inspections, and wave us through.

       If your load has a lot of toys, or lots of tools, electronics, computers … or if you have commercial quantities of things, then you may be charged duties.

       Even if you do not formally qualify for the Menaje de Casa (from the Consulate), most of us find that giving Aduana an ersatz ‘Menaje de Casa’ style list – describing the contents of every numbered box – with $$ values and items named in Spanish – is sufficient for them to approve you to enter without paying duties on personal household items … or paying only small duties.

       If you use a professional mover … then you must either have the formal Consulate-approved Menaje de Casa list … or pay significant (16.5%) duties.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
474. John111 says:

     January 31, 2016 at 8:52 pm

     I have read several articles on financial requirements for temporal visa. I have seen conflicting information and I am confused. Can anyone tell me how much proven recurring monthly income or minimum savings account balances are required for my wife and I to qualify for temporal visas?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 31, 2016 at 11:03 pm

       Hi John,
       The requirements are very clear, simple, and straightforward, as described in the law … which matches what we published above.

       If you are applying at a Consulate:
       See ~ Financial Independence (Savings or Income) Requirements for Temporary Residency / Residente Temporal Applicants:
       at: https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Various%20Types%20of%20Proof%20of%20Financial%20Independence%20for%20Temporary%20Residency

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • John111 says:

         February 1, 2016 at 6:25 am

         What is unclear to me are the requirements for a married couple. What you have referenced appears to be for an individual. For a married couple is it 2x these amounts?
       • yucalandia says:

         February 1, 2016 at 9:55 am

         Hi John,
         One route you can pick gives the same amount for each person – with each person supplying their own documentation in their name => sort-of 2X. (as 2 individual applications)

         The other route is to have a primary applicant who applies first, then the spouse (who enters Mexico using a simple 6 month visitors visa) then qualifies automatically as … their spouse (or immediate family member).

         Please read the whole section under Fiscal Requirements for Temporary Residents (including Permanent Residents) at:
         ~ Financial Independence (Savings or Income) Requirements for Temporary Residency / Residente Temporal Applicants:
         at: https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Various%20Types%20of%20Proof%20of%20Financial%20Independence%20for%20Temporary%20Residency

         Then read about Vinculo Familiar procedures under:
         ~ Other Categories/Qualifications that Permit a Foreigner to Become a Residente Temporal, including OFFERS of EMPLOYMENT and Family Members & Spouses (Vinculo Familiar)
         and
         ~ Other Categories/Qualifications that Permit a Foreigner to Become a Residente Permanente, including Vinculo Familiar for Family Members and Spouses

         ~ Current Rules and Procedures for Immigration ~ Immigrating to, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico

         Happy Trails,
         steve

         It describes that the main way is for the
475. Paul G. says:

     February 5, 2016 at 12:55 pm

     I have been reading this blog from time to time over the last few months. I do want to say “Thank you” Steve for putting this all together. Truly a monumental task. And truly valuable for those of us following in your footsteps.

     Having recently received my initial single-entry Residencia Permanente visa from the Mexican Consulate here in Tucson, I just wanted to pass on my experience for the benefit of anybody thinking about heading down that road.

     The Tucson Consulate’s website has a link to download a page listing documents to bring with you when making the initial application: http://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/tucson/index.php/visas However, I also first went in and simply inquired what I needed to bring. I was handed a copy of that page, to which the woman I spoke with added “retirement letter from your former employer”. I’m a retired former public employee. I am not currently receiving any Social Security. I also mentioned that I also receive several hundred dollars monthly based upon my deceased wife’s employment as a teacher. She then added to the form “letter from California State.”

     I went home and ordered the “letters”. The letter I got from my public retirement system had the system’s letterhead at the top, but was simply signed by a low-level clerk. The letter from the California Teachers Retirement System was unsigned and, by all appearances, looked like a xerox copy.

     The Tucson Consulate’s website provides phone numbers to call to set up an appointment and a contact email address. But, attempting to call never worked and I never got a reply to the one email I sent. So I just wandered in and took a number. When my number was called, I handed the woman the filled out application, only the letter from my public retirement system, and xerox copies of 12 months bank statements showing (only) my retirement deposits of $2600-2700/mo. That was it. I had a bunch of other bank statements with me showing other financial information, but did not want to complicate things if not necessary.

     All conversations with me were in English. Three young women handled my application at various points, and appeared, upon several occasions, to be conversing among themselves as to how to handle this or that. After 20-30 minutes, I noticed one of the women talking to the woman with whom I had spoken upon my initial contact. I was then told to come back at 11:00 the next day. My impression is that that was the woman who was able to give final approval–and it was then close to noon and she was then conversing with two other people also seeking permanent residence.

     I returned the next day. There was a little flurry in the beginning when I had to convince the “final say” woman that I had left my application and supporting documents with them the previous day. Ultimately she understood and within a short while it all was found. Conversation was brief and the decision appeared to be based entirely upon the documents I presented. 45 minutes later, I walked out with a single-entry residencia permanente visa affixed in my passport. All in all, it was pretty simple.

     Notes: (1) Upon several occasions, I was simply told to have a seat (without any explanation whatever). But eventually the process resumed and we continued with the next step. (2) The application has boxes to enter both the date you intend to enter Mexico and the intended port of entry. What you fill in those boxes appears to be irrelevant to the process. I was then uncertain as to exactly where or when I would be entering Mexico, and was told to just put in “whatever”. Nothing on the resulting visa in my passport anywhere indicates when or where I need to enter–but it must be in the next 6 months.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 5, 2016 at 11:50 pm

       very cool.

       Thanks for coming back with the good report!
       steve

       Reply
476. Paul G. says:

     February 6, 2016 at 11:16 am

     In getting ready to cross the border with my consulate-issued “residencia permanente” visa, I have read everything above. But I’m wondering if I might request a brief explanation of the difference between a NUT, a NUE, a pieza number, and a CURP. What is each one, when should one first expect to receive one, and when would one expect to need to use them? And for the acronyms, the full name en español? Such information would certainly assist in this newbie’s understanding of the sequence of the process.

     Also, I see the word “comprobante” used at various places in the blog. Is a “comprobante” a specific type of form or document, or does “comprobante” simply used to mean whatever “supporting document” might be available or appropriate under the circumstances, as my dictionary would lead me to believe?

     Thanks so much. This blog is just fantastic.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 6, 2016 at 3:44 pm

       Hi Paul,
       You get your pieza number when you successfully enter your information online into the INM application website.

       You use that pieza number when you check-in at INM for your first office visit.

       When INM has successfully logged in your application, they issue you a NUT (tramite number) for you to use – online – to track the status/progress of your INM application.

       The NUE is the number on the front of your INM Residency Visa card.

       There is a fourth number on the back of your INM Residency Visa card. THAT is INM’s official ID number for you and your visa. That’s the number you give when banks, SRE or other officials ask for your INM number (after you have the visa)

       Finally, comprabante is simply an official copy, on letter-head, of a document that proves something … like your address. A CFE bill from the last 3 months is the most typically used comprabante for proof of address across Mexico. We can also use our official water bills (from JAPAY in Yucatan). Some areas accept Cable TV bills or bank statements, but the CFE bill is the most common form of comprabante.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
477. Bruce McGovern says:

     February 6, 2016 at 2:15 pm

     Curp is a permanent number based on personal data including your name and where you were born. Do not lose that thing, though you can find it on-line. I can’t say it’s like our Social Security number but it identifies you as a specific individual as your SS does.

     From it you can get your RFC or taxpayer id number online solely by inputting your CURP number.

     I don’t want to make myself look stupid, but I think those other numbers are strictly for INM the immigration office.

     You may need those numbers, CURP and RFC, for certain financial transactions in Mexico.

     Comprobante may be the paper you get showing you paid to their account the amount required for your documents. Not sure but I think so. Steve will tell you if I am wrong.

     Reply
     • Kristi Draper says:

       February 6, 2016 at 10:33 pm

       Could someone point me to the right URL for getting a RFC if one already has a CURP? Many thanks.

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         February 7, 2016 at 9:54 am

         Hi Kristi,
         Check our web-page with lots of useful website links for people living in Mexico:
         https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/useful-mexican-websites/ … “Useful Mexican Websites”

         The 4’th, 5’th, & 6’th links posted there take you to official sites on getting your RFC.

         Happy Trails,
         steve
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         February 7, 2016 at 4:06 pm

         I’m not sure, but I think this is the one. And it is a government page which would agree.

         https://rfc.siat.sat.gob.mx/PTSC/RFC/menu/index.jsp?opcion=2

         it does ask for your address, etc. And, gives you a nice printout with all your relevant data on it.

         The RFC is a direct derivation from your curp number. There may be a couple digits reserved to eliminate rare duplications, I am not sure on that.

         A reminder for those who do not yet have CURP that under new regs in the last few years, you must get it from INM the immigration people.They are justified on this. First time I asked in my municipio offices, the woman insisted I had to first register my birth in Mexico, which is not true. I assume she had had some kids born in the USA whose mother brought them home, and that might well be correct for them.

         So, my guess is to eliminate major errors like that, they simply decreed foreigners must go to INM.
       • yucalandia says:

         February 8, 2016 at 8:24 am

         Hi Bruce,
         Re RF being a derivation of CURP:
         Not really: They have shared elements … but in different orders, and in different locations of the overall number:
         Both numbers contain the first letters of our First & Last names, and our birthday as 4 digits (0407 for April 7) – so these 6 shared characters makes some elements of the CURP & RFC the same.

         Happy Trails,
         steve
478. Bruce McGovern says:

     February 6, 2016 at 4:07 pm

     Thanks, Steve, for correction on comprobante.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 6, 2016 at 9:04 pm

       No, Thank YOU ! Bruce.

       You’re so very good with useful details & accurate answers,
       steve

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         February 6, 2016 at 11:03 pm

         Thank you for the kind words. I can only report what is happening to me, and only in Puebla. I don’t think you have had many who got it via Family Unity, but I have seen more talking about it recently.

         My wife and I drove in a week or so ago and asked INM what I needed to change to Permanent residence family unity next month after two years as Temporary resident. There was nothing new on the lists that I did not need for Temporary resident, and still no income proof. Though I will take it with me when I go just in case.

         The basic birth and marriage documents with Apostilles and translation. No, actually we got our Mexican papers by registering in her native village, so we probably don’t need apostilles on them, but I will take the original US documents in case.

         My passport and copies. My temporary resident card. My wife’s Mexican documents (credencial or pasaporte). Cartas bajo protesta from my wife and from me that we indeed live together in her chosen home.

         Since I have them already, I will be taking my CURP and RFC numbers. And, just in case, I will take the electric bill, heh, heh.

         But, that’s pretty much it. Well, the bank receipt for 1149 pesos for applying and over 4,000 (4383)when I pick up the card later. That receipt is what I mistakenly thought was called comprobante, hee, hee.

         I still have a lot of things I don’t know. Like do i still have to go in every year to renew or not? They did tell me as soon as I get permanent I can apply with a different office for citizenship. And, I will.

         We have obtained a Mexican car, if the US bank sends the money as promised. A 2009 Sienna LE. Odometer says around 52,000 miles, not that I am confident in those numbers. But the one we have has 220,000 miles on it and runs out perfectly. So, even if the used one has 100,000 miles on it, to me it’s as good as new.

         It was a Toyota certified como-nuevo and we are paying (number deleted but only a fraction of the price of a new one) pesos. Quite a bit and I will not be sure it was a good deal until I have had it for a while. They also had a 2009 XLE, the fully loaded one for a lot more money but more goodies are more things to fail.

         The back row of seats fold into the floor. The mid row he said do not remove, just tumble, but on the seats are REMOVE instructions in English. So, I can carry refrigerators or such large things. But, that is why mini-vans are so popular to those not turned off by styling issues.

         It looks like a nice car. Of course they did paint the tires… But, I guess that is standard, no?

         Next, to get the old one to the border before applying for permanent status. We will drive then come back by bus and hopefully have the car waiting..
       • yucalandia says:

         February 7, 2016 at 10:09 am

         Hi Bruce,
         Yes, If you have completed 5 continuous years with no problems on residency visas, and not been outside of Mexico too much during those past 5 years, (especially no more than 180 total days in the past 2 years) … then you may potentially qualify for citizenship …

         Apply with SRE:

         ~ Current Rules and Procedures for Immigration ~ Immigrating to, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico

         
         ~ Immigration Requirements that Relate to Becoming a Naturalized Citizen

         For people wanting to study what sorts of questions that SRE delegados ask (e.g. when testing Spanish language competency):

         Mexican Citizenship Test … No Longer with Answers

         Happy Trails,
         steve
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         February 7, 2016 at 4:13 pm

         Just so you know, Steve, they specifically told me for family unity it only takes 2 years as temporary resident, then get permanent, then immediately after I get my permanent status I can go to the office and apply for citizenship. I cannot personally vouch for it, because I will not try until after I get permanent, but that is what they have verbally told me several times.

         In any case Family Unity is a totally different ball-game.
       • Rc says:

         February 7, 2016 at 6:02 pm

         This is correct per my lawyer and the SRE website itself under naturalization.

         Technically you do not even need to be a permanent resident I don’t think. You just need to prove 2 years of residency in Mexico with your spouse. To my knowledge it does not specify temporary or permanent. My lawyer told me after two years of temporary I could apply and I checked this on the SRE website. I got my RT card through the family unit program. I DID have to show solvency though in Cancun…
       • yucalandia says:

         February 8, 2016 at 8:58 am

         Hi Rc,
         The SRE’s Merida office has jurisdiction over SRE in Q. Roo/Cancun … and the Merida office definitely requires 5 years of continuous aggregate FM2/Inmigrante/Inmigrado/Residente Permanente status to qualify for naturalized citizenship

         OR
         Applicants who are officially married to a Mexican citizen (marriage registered at the state Registro Civil) qualify for citizenship after just 2 years:
         For Details See:
         http://sre.gob.mx/carta-de-naturalizacion-por-haber-contraido-matrimonio-con-varon-o-mujer-mexicanos

         A friend just tried to do it with 4 aggregate years (2 months ago) and was immediately denied due to not having 5 years – even though he is married to a Mexicana (Mexican service at our state Registro Civil office) … but he was only married to a Mexican for less than 2 years.

         Interesting that you did have to show personal solvency, because the law says it is NOT required … but many local INM offices still add that requirements.

         Happy Trails,
         steve
       • yucalandia says:

         February 8, 2016 at 8:54 am

         Hi Bruce,
         Did you complete any previous years as an “Inmigrante” status?
         If you had at least 1 year as “Inmigrante”, that year (or any continuous prior FM2/Inmigrante years) counts towards the 5 years needed for SRE.

         And yes, Family Unity (Vinculo Familiar) makes huge differences in the INM approvals,
         steve
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         February 7, 2016 at 4:20 pm

         I have also been told that older applicants have a much easier test, with less history and law. You can be sure when I get to that stage, I will post what I learn. My concern is with spoken Spanish. My wife goes north for up to two months at a time, and I function alone very well. But, I don’t hear well even in English. So, that test worries me..
       • Rc says:

         February 7, 2016 at 6:53 pm

         How long until you complete your 2 years of marriage (or residency) and go from temporary to permanent or to apply for citizenship?
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         February 7, 2016 at 8:21 pm

         RC, our two years are up around April 3rd or so and we were told to apply 30 days ahead of time. They explicitly told me as soon as I got Permanent residence I could apply for citizenship, so my guess is in Puebla that is correct, though it may well be different elsewhere.

         The way they said it implied to me that you must have an immigration status and to do that after two years, you need to apply for the next level. That is my guess. The citizen ship people are different agencies.

         I don’t know how long before I apply for citizenship. I don’t want to stall too long. We are in our 70’s, and it would be tragic if something happened to my wife and they tossed me out of Family Unity — unless there are widows rights or something.

         And, of course, though technically it may not matter, I do want to die as a Mexican. So, even if I am the one who dies I want to get my citizenship papers first.

         I warn people that I am a somewhat traditional man. Traditional men seldom ever cry. But, I am sure the minute someone tells me I am Mexican I am going to cry like a baby. I have wanted it so long. I love Mexico and I love the Mexican people and I love my little village. And, I especially love my English students, past and present, and probably future. Jijiji.

         My English students say they expect a party when I become a citizen.
       • yucalandia says:

         February 8, 2016 at 9:18 am

         Bruce,
         Wonderful …

         When I got my citizenship last October (starting the preliminary check processes in May … signing forms in mid June … taking tests in June + early July), our SRE office that does passports bounced my passport application around in a messy messy way, potentially to cause me to miss my only-daughter’s wedding (in the USA) … as the passport office started requiring citas … and there were no citas available until after my US flight departed.

         My Notario grinned, laughed and said: “Welcome to Mexico !“…

         everybody in his office laughed and laughed … that I was having problems in just the first week of having Citizenship – as they said it was “mi bautizo” (my baptism) as a “welcome to being a real Mexican”

         One phone call got it all resolved, putting me in the first group of citas on the passport office’s next business day …

         Details on my citizenship process experiences at:
         http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=196392;page=5;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

         Scroll about half-way down the page to see a report of the general timeline. (plus details on Merida’s SRE office’s special test requirements on the previous Mexconnect page).

         Happy Trails,
         steve
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         February 8, 2016 at 2:52 pm

         I cannot emphasize too much all comments on citizenship since I got Family Unity have said TWO YEARS. No mention of five years. No notes on past residency which was FM-3. None whatsoever. No boxes to check or fill in in regards to past residency.
479. aboomerabroad says:

     February 6, 2016 at 9:44 pm

     Hi Steve,

     Thanks for answering my questions in the past. Since things are always changing and I’m still trying to time my move back to Mexico, thought I would pester you again.

     1. What is the current view of the Mexican government on using a combination of US social security and savings to qualify for permanent residency? I remember that you wrote that Phoenix and Miami tended to use a non-standard points system. Do others let you blend the two or is it one or the other. My social security is under by around $300 the income requirement.

     2. Before, if I remember right, you wrote that switching from Temp to Perm residency after 4 years was fairly automatic or do you now have to go through the standard qualifications for Perm?

     3. During Temp is the time requirement to be in country at least 180 days?

     Thanks again

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 7, 2016 at 10:02 am

       Hi boomer abroad,
       1. Phoenix, Portland, Miami, Chicago and Laredo (and some others) have been more liberal in accepting proofs of personal fiscal solvency.

       San Francisco, San Diego, Boston (and some others) have been excessively difficult on this issue, DEMANDING only retirement income as regular retirement pension income deposits, with requirements that the person be retired … which makes a whole lot of sense (not)

       … because one of the Residente Permanente’s key benefits is … the right to work in Mexico. *grin*

       but … since Consulates are in a different branch of government (SRE) than INM (SEGOB), they march to their own drummer.

       2. In theory, you should not have to show proof of personal fiscal solvency, but some INM offices still use their own local discretion and require financial documents.

       3. No time requirement.
       Since the USA has incredibly restrictive (punitive) rules on their new Permanent Residents… many Americans imagine the same things of other countries => false rumors.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • aboomerabroad says:

         February 11, 2016 at 3:29 am

         Steve, thanks as usual. It is funny trying to stay on top of this because the answer usually comes down to what someone told once about law in Mexico – the law is what the person on the other side of the desk says it is.

         So I take it the more easy going ones like Laredo will let you use a combination of ss check and savings?
       • yucalandia says:

         February 11, 2016 at 8:40 am

         Hi boomer,
         Exactly… SF, Boston, and a few other Mexican Consulate offices take very-restrictive views of the law (because the section header of the law you are applying under for Residente Permanente actually is called: for “Jubilados” … “for Retired People”)… but there is nothing in the law actually defining retirement nor specifying that the applicant must be retired … and nothing in the law requiring proof that the $$ come exclusively from pension income…

         Chicago, Portland, Laredo, San Antonio(?), and Phoenix (and others) all have been accepting non-retirement $$ proofs from any American adult.

         Note that almost all Consulates require making an appointment before you arrive on their doorstep.

         ???
         steve
480. Rc says:

     February 7, 2016 at 8:41 pm

     @Bruce,

     I suspect that is correct and sounds logical that you would go from temporary to permanent and then to citizen as soon as you have permanent. That is the way I plan to do it although my lawyer said it can be done after two years of temporary, so theoretically I guess it’s possible.

     I am a lot younger than you by far, but you are correct in not wanting to waste time. I tell my father this who is in his mid 60s. He has been permanent 3 years, temporary 1 and qualified on his pension. He plans to apply for citizenship as soon as possible.

     And I haven’t spent as much time as you in Mexico but I have spent a lot of time there and have enjoyed my experiences in different parts of Mexico. I married a Mexican girl, studied abroad twice, once in Merida and once in GDL. Its a fantastic country and at my age I want to make sure I am a part of Mexico’s future. Unfortunately I see dwindling opportunity in the US and I believe Mexico and Panama are the future for me. So I look forward to the day I can become a citizen and help shape Mexico into a 21st century global power.

     Reply
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       February 7, 2016 at 11:02 pm

       Economists have been saying for some time now that in another generation Mexico, not the USA, will be the economic power house of the Western Hemisphere. My best friend and I have a strong disagreement. In my visits since 1983, and the years I have lived here, I have seen great improvements in Mexico. And, the potential for more in the future.

       My wife once asked me why all my English students were girls. I made the hand motions of a saint, rolling my eyes to Heaven, and putting my hands together in prayer, and said, Purely coincidence!

       But, then I added I do not discriminate as to sex at all. I have had probably 30 women/girls, and 5 boys/men. The girls simply have more ambition.

       My classes are free. I cannot see taking money from poor, ambitious students for something that costs me almost nothing, and is extremely enjoyable.

       I have learned it is a waste of time to teach them to SPEAK English. They forget it almost immediately when practice stops. I teach them to read English and give them books when they finish them. Right now, I have two students who are reading RUNAWAY HOME, a sixth grade reader from the 40’s. When they finish it, they get a copy. I buy them on the Internet, Amazon used books.

       My best student is a 12 year old girl who lives in the woods. They have a large family, and the older ones are all very ambitious. That 12 year old is probably my best student. She even shows up at times 10 minutes early!

       I taught her and her sister some programming in C++ and Java before hitting the reader. The older girl is studying programming, but had not studied what I taught them. She said when they did study arrays and standard deviations, they were very easy. The 12 year old understood it all.

       I am not going to patronize RC by lecturing him on the Mexican culture. But, for others new to the game, foreigners who attempt the White Savior routine are quickly pushed away. “Speaking Down” to Mexicans is very

       Reply
481. Rc says:

     February 7, 2016 at 8:44 pm

     @Bruce,

     Oh yea! Let me know how it goes. September is my 2 year date on marriage but residency was acquired in March. Should I attempt to apply for permanent right after our 2 year marriage date? I will ask my lawyer but just curious. I ask for and was granted 2 year temporary visa.

     Reply
482. Bruce McGovern says:

     February 7, 2016 at 9:36 pm

     The only things I can say with any confidence at all is something I have personally done. But, my guess is you will have to wait until that 2 year visa is near expiration. No where have I seen any reference to how long you have been married, but how long you legally reside in Mexico. For goodness’ sakes if you find different let us know ASAP.

     I previously had an FM-3 for 4 years and it did me no good under the new laws. When I asked, they were aware I had had the FM-3 for 4 years, too. I simply had to comply with the new laws.

     Also we were married already for well over 30 years, and that too made no difference.

     Reply
483. RC says:

     February 8, 2016 at 11:30 am

     @Yucalandia. Wow, well that is bad news. But how can they do that when on their own webpage it clearly states 2 years of residency if married to a Mexican citizen?

     http://sre.gob.mx/carta-de-naturalizacion-por-haber-contraido-matrimonio-con-varon-o-mujer-mexicanos

     My wife has suggested that we apply for Residente Permanente in her state of Sonora or in Tijuana (we have family in both places and we spend a lot of time in both places as well). She was very disappointed and appalled at the Cancun office. It was a complete mess. My lawyer says it is better now, but my guess is there are a lot less residency applications in Sonora as opposed to Quintana Roo. Anyone have experience with the INM Hermosillo or Tijuana offices? what about with SRE? Really I’m just interested in RP right now, but if i can become Mexican I’d rather go for it sooner than later.

     @Bruce

     You are right, I grew up in Socal and visited Mexico every now and then. Over the last 10 years living in AZ and CA I have visited Mexico many times and spent a significant amount of time, as well as my father moving there. I am always surprised by the improvements that Mexico has made. Yes there is a lot of corruption, but same in the US. Even when I was working on the border, I was surprised at the number of middle class and upper class people driving from Hermosillo to Tucson or Phoenix for shopping spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars on shopping sprees. There is a lot of money in Mexico. And it just amazes me and makes me so angry when I hear people even Mexicans speak so negatively about “how bad” and “how poor” Mexico is. The country and the world is changing and Mexico has the chance to be the economic powerhouse in Latin America, if not even North America too. There is so much opportunity there and just seeing the amount of immigrants coming to Mexico from all over the world is pretty interesting. Anyone ever take the MEX-TIJ-PVG flight?! Filled with Chinese immigrants at both MEX and more waiting to get on in TIJ! The future is bright, so I am happy to get in sooner rather than later before it gets harder to come to Mexico.

     Reply
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       February 8, 2016 at 1:59 pm

       I keep trying to understand your concern about the two years. I wonder if it is because you have to be infinitesimally more than 2 years. First year, get temporary (I think you said you got two in one trip) At the end of the first year, you must apply for the second year, except the lucky ones who got two in one.

       Then at the end of the second year, you have to apply for SOMETHING. In most cases, permanent residency. That is, you must have an immigration status AFTER the two years, even if only for a short time.

       You must complete a full two years, but they do ask you to apply 30 days in advance. so, you already have your new status BEFORE the two years are up.

       So, you can’t apply until the two years are up, and you must have a current immigration status to apply. That means you will have applied three times, not two times, for two full years.

       I do not want to presume knowing what you are thinking, once in a while I’m not even sure what I am thinking, heh, heh, but it almost seems you are over-thinking this to some extent.

       I suppose they could say, “Must have completed two years residency and also must have current residency status for next year.” That would be perhaps a bit more technically correct, but most people understand the way it is worded now. Finish your two years temporary residence, get permanent residence for year 3, then apply for citizenship at your convenience.

       Citizenship is apparently more complicated than residence, so I am told. So, no one can get through year 2 and instantly get citizenship, so you must have a valid immigration status while you work at it

       If this doesn’t help, I am clearly not the person to explain it.

       Reply
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       February 8, 2016 at 2:15 pm

       I do like very much your optimistic comments about seeing improvements in Mexico over the years. That is exactly what I see.

       My village has shown continuous improvements over the years I have first visited, then dwelled here. Public water to most houses. Streets paved or bricked. Internet (mine is faster here than my Earthlink in McAllen.) Telephone service, if only cell phone.

       A number of neighbor kids without Internet sit on my retaining wall and connect via my wireless router. I love the opportunity to help the poor kids learn modern technology. I just tell them: NO PORN and DO NOT BOTHER MY NEIGHBOR WOMEN WHO HAVE TO WALK ON MY PRIVATE ROAD TO THEIR HOMES!!!!

       It isn’t just the cost of telephone service and Internet that stops them. Some of these cute kids live well within the woods, and the phone company has shown no interest in running lines out that far. They come and sit on my wall and when they are done, they go home. I see my modem traffic light going sometimes until nearly midnight.

       Facebook seems to be the communication center of this village. I get friend me requests from unknown people in the US. They have obviously been told to get on my Face and they will have the whole village, their own kinfolk and all.

       Last year, the woman president motivated the wives to put in real bathrooms for almost any family which would accept them, even the isolated ones in the woods. Nice concrete buildings; water tank on top; flush stool with a genuine septic tank bed, not just a hole to fill up, and a shower system. I have no idea where some of them get water, but the attempt alone has made our village much more modern and healthy.

       The dump trucks ran up and down my private road for weeks.

       My own family in the US did not get indoor plumbing until around 1980. A disgusting toilet, foul smelling. So un-necessary because my uncle had a toilet and he kept a bag of bran lime and after every use one sprinkled lime down the hole.

       Sorry, Steve, for going so far off-topic.

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         February 8, 2016 at 2:18 pm

         I forgot the other rule for my wireless users If I hear any voices after 10 pm, I turn off the router It only happened once, so I assume they whisper.
       • yucalandia says:

         February 8, 2016 at 5:50 pm

         Good stories…

         Keep ’em coming.
     • yucalandia says:

       February 8, 2016 at 5:54 pm

       RC,
       I clearly wrote an incorrect/partial answer (earlier). The SRE website is the BEST source on this.

       The friend I described had NOT completed 2 years of being married to a Mexican, and he had not completed 5 years of combined Inmigrante/Inmigrado/FM2/Residente permanente.

       So, this policy of 2 years of formally being married to a Mexican (approved by a Registro Civil office), is clearly the official SRE policy.

       I’m going away now to go edit/correct the earlier post, because I don’t like spreading mistaken information to future readers.

       THANKS
       steve

       Reply
484. Paul G. says:

     February 10, 2016 at 11:02 am

     In getting ready to cross the border with my consulate-issued “residencia permanente” visa, I’m wondering if a couple of editing changes to the above “Instructions for the INM Webpage for Visiting Mexico or Moving to Mexico” section (explaining how to fill out the online INM form/Solicitud_de_Estancia) might be in order.

     With respect to the data choices, at one point above is stated “~ Passport or other documents: mostly obvious”. When it comes to the word “expedición”, I would have to disagree. After having reviewed the online form, and given the context of that “Passport” section, my thinking was that the word “expedición”, when used in that context, probably means “issuance”. But consulting a number of English/Spanish sources, all I got was that it meant (in English) “expedition”–until I cross-referenced the English word “issue” in my 3-inch thick, hardbound English/Spanish dictionary, confirming that, when used with respect to a document, the word “expedición” means “issue” (based upon the verb “expedir”–which means “to issue” when used with pasaporte, billete, orden, decreto, etc.). Thus,
     “País de expedición” means “Country of issue”
     “Fecha de expedición” means “Date of issue”, and
     “Fecha de vencimiento” means “Expiration date”.
     I would think adding those lines would be of significant help to those not having the benefit of a 3-inch thick, hardbound English/Spanish dictionary.

     Also, would I be correct in concluding that it’s the text under that first sub-heading (in the “Instructions” above) that sets out the initial choices that I (the first-timer seeking a resident card) should select when filling in the online form–despite the sub-heading itself (“Change from Visitante to Residente Temporal”)? Based upon everything I’ve read herein, if immigration somehow mistakenly stamps “visitante” on one’s FMM, they’re going to be in a world of hurt when they try to process their 30-day FMM and canje it into a resident card.

     Also, with respect to which characters will work in the various boxes/blanks, the online form has a link (“Instructivo de llenado”) by which one can download a 5-page .pdf set of instructions, one entire page of which is devoted to which special characters work in which box/blank.

     Please let me know if I’m “out in left field”, so to speak, on any of this. Thanks much. Couldn’t do it without you. You have made the process sooooooo much easier.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 10, 2016 at 10:08 pm

       Hi Paul,
       First of all, you do NOT have a Residente Permanente visa.

       You are only part way through the application process … so what you have is just a temporary 1-use special stamp that allows you to enter Mexico for just 30 days … to go to your INM office to finish applying for your Residente Permanente visa.

       You want the canje step in applying on-line at the INM website … and take your pieza number from that online application process (as described above) in to your local INM office in Mexico.

       Happy trails,
       steve

       Reply
485. Isabel says:

     February 10, 2016 at 10:25 pm

     Hi! Such a great resource you have put up here. Tried to read everything including all comments but could not find an answer to a question I have. Hope you could give some light on this:

     We are from Asia (Philippines) and my husband is hired by a Mexican company ( as an engineer). The company assured us that they would arrange everything for us, my husband’s RT and ours (his family of 3) and that we could get to travel at the same time. But the company (employer) has now issued a request letter for my husband only (RT) and advised that if we want to travel with him at the same time that we have to enter Mexico as Tourist (and we have to arrange for the tourist visa by ourselves – no further help from the employer with this regard). Once we have entered Mexico (us family having the Tourist Visa) only then can the company assist in our visa application (I don’t know what visa they plan to give us there as they are not really that helpful in giving out specific details). His company’s vague reply to us is that he must wait for his RT visa to be issued in Mexico first (when he arrives there within 30 days) then only can the company apply for us. Waiting time is between 6 months to 1 year before we (his family) can finally go in Mexico. Is this information correct?

     My question: is there any other workaround for my husband and us to travel together? He already has a RT visa request that is pending approval by the Mexican embassy in our country of origin. As per the new immigration law, can he apply a 10-year tourist visa for us (his’ dependent), at the same time of his RT visa application? Or any other applicable visa for us just for the sole purpose of travelling together.

     Thank you so much. Appreciate very much a response.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 11, 2016 at 8:33 am

       Hi Isabel,
       You read most of this article OK, but you seem to have missed the “Vinculo Familiar” section: The part that applies to your situation.
       See details here: https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Other%20Categories/Qualifications%20that%20Permit%20a%20Foreigner%20to%20Become%20a%20Residente%20Temporal
       ~ Other Categories/Qualifications that Permit a Foreigner to Become a Residente Temporal (RT), including OFFERS of EMPLOYMENT and Family Members & Spouses (Vinculo Familiar)

       As described in the Vinculo Familiar section above, once your husband has his RT visa, you (the spouse & your kids) automatically qualify for RT visas.

       Re your travel to Mexico w/the Kids:
       If you want to enter Mexico with your husband… using the typical 6 month Visitors Visas: You need to make a personal visit to a Mexican Consular office or Mexican Embassy.
       Here’s the official website with the requirements for your Visitor’s visa(s):
       http://embamex.sre.gob.mx/filipinas/index.php/en/touristvis

       Mexico Embassy
       G.C. Corporate Plaza 2nd Floor
       150 Legaspi Street
       Legaspi Village
       Makati City
       Manila 1229
       Philippines
       Telephone: (+632) 812-2211
       Fax: (+632) 892-7635
       Email: embmxfil@info.com.ph
       Website: http://portal.sre.gob.mx/filipinaseng/index.php?Itemid=1

       Mexico Consulate
       Unit #5, Regency Crest Condominiums
       Ma. Luisa Road, Banilad
       Cebu City, 6000
       Philippines
       Telephone: (+63-32) 343-3357
       Fax: (+63-32) 343-3409 / 343-3410 / 343-3442

       If you choose to try for RT visas for your whole family before coming to Mexico (more difficult than the Vinculo Familiar route), then you have to show sufficient income to meet the RT Personal Fiscal Solvency requirements for all => difficult, since INM wants the financial documents to show each/every applicant’s name on the Bank Statement’s printed header info.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
486. Mark Lambert says:

     February 16, 2016 at 2:24 pm

     Can my wife & I drive out of Cancun to the U.S. in Brownsville TX on an expired Temporary Tourist Visa & Tip for our car without being stopped & fined along the way; or when trying to cross into Texas? We understand that the 200.00 Tip deposit return will have been cancelled for not returning the car within 180 days, but will we be stopped – detained, and or fined outside of the expired Tip?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 16, 2016 at 3:56 pm

       Hi Mark,
       … ‘can‘ => it’s possible.

       OK to do? … Nope, totally illegal.

       Should you do it?
       Depends on your tolerance for risks:
       ~ If you get in an accident, and someone is killed, and your insurance company .. or your insurance adjustor … or the police .. or the other party’s insurance company or adjustor notices your illegal vehicle and your illegal INM visa status … Then:

       You can be liable for up to $4 million pesos (IN CASH) for every accidental death – as insurance companies and police can decide your fiscal protections and your insurance protections are null & void…

       Also, even if you get in a minor fender-bender, etc: If any of the parties recognize your illegal status and your vehicle’s illegal status … then, the police have the right to put you in jail (detention) … without food or water (just what your friends or family bring in specially for you) … and you stay in jail until you prove you can personally pay for ANY damages that the other parties or police can imagine. …

       This last item actually happened to a friend – who was fully legal – but the police kept him in jail for 4 nights, until the $$ disputes were resolved and until his insurance company came up with proof of $$ to cover those potential liabilities. …

       Why mention all this? Insurance agents (who are salesmen … not lawyers) sometimes tell gringos that ‘they are covered’, while buried deep in the fine fine print standard Mexican policies can say that your coverage is null/void in case of being illegal.

       Finally, police and military guys at any point along the trip have the right to detain your vehicle, and formally permanently confiscate it through Aduana processes … leaving you stranded(?)

       So…

       It’s up to you.

       Do you feel any hard feelings when foreigners (Muslims, Mexicans, Hondurans) who are in America illegally … intentionally break US laws ?

       ???

       Me?
       I would not take those chances.
       I would make the simple 4 hr trip down to the Belize-Chetumal border: get both your visa and your car permit legal for another 180 days … and then drive across the bottom of the Yucatan peninsula – directly over to Villahermosa … and up to Brownsville.

       Because of the easy direct drive east from Chetumal to Villahermosa … it may not take that much more driving time to make your return drive all safe, legal, and hassle-free.

       Between Chetumal & Villahermosa: Stop and see Calakmul … a world heritage site … with fabulous ruins, jaguars, troops of howler monkeys, and beautiful birds.

       Enjoy a SAFE trip back!
       steve

       Reply
487. Don says:

     February 20, 2016 at 9:52 pm

     Hi Steve

     Exited Mexico by land and had the FMM process handled flawlessly by INM at km21 South of Nogales. Presented by Residente Permanente card and passport and the official filled out the FMM. I doubled checked to ensure correct box was checked, signed same, passport stamped, obtained by portion of the FMM and off we went! Just like you said….always seems strange the first time….thanks for your help!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 22, 2016 at 10:36 am

       Glad that it worked out smoothly,
       steve

       Reply
488. KLM says:

     February 23, 2016 at 6:40 pm

     I have a question about visitor visas. While I am a RP holder, my wife has a visitor visa. It expires next month. My question is that my wife flew into Mexico but we are driving out thru Nogales in a couple of weeks. Does she need to stop and turn in her visa bottom half? I asked a lady at the INM counter at the airport. She said no need to. That was 5 months ago and now I am starting to wonder if I got good info. I have read that the visa visitors receive is simply the way we prove that we paid the exit tax Mexico imposes.
     In the past (6 years ago, the last time I drove) I do not remember ever stopping at the boarder except to have my TIP removed.
     We are flying back the following week and do not want her to get in any hassle with INM over this. After we get back we are going to take our paper work in and get her a RP under the family plan.

     After that, who knows when we will head back!!

     Anyone know about this?
     Thanks. Kirk

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 24, 2016 at 8:12 am

       Hi KLM,
       Bruce is right on all counts: Turn it in.

       It is not about collecting taxes.

       It is about attempting to control & monitor who enters & exits Mexico.

       Many people do not follow this rule, and sometimes the INM officials do not spot the mistake when looking at our computer records, while other times they do.

       If they spot the old visitor’s visa that was not surrendered/cancelled, you can be liable for $300 USD fines (more or less).

       Congrats on using the Vinculo Familiar program to get her RP.

       Happy Trails

       Reply
489. Bruce McGovern says:

     February 23, 2016 at 7:11 pm

     Turn it in. Six years ago, the computer system was not well established. Now it seems to be.

     Everything I have read and personally seen indicates you need to turn that paper in. Why take a chance if she is applying for RP?

     Steve is the expert here. If he tells you differently, believe him.

     Reply
     • KLM says:

       February 27, 2016 at 1:19 pm

       Thanks for yours and Steve’s replies. We will turn in her visa at the border area.

       Is there an INM office on the north bound side of the road into Nogales, where we have the TIP sticker removed? Or make a couple of u-turns to go to the km20 office on highway 15?

       Thanks. Kirk

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         February 28, 2016 at 4:40 pm

         I understand that you do it at the km20 office.
         steve
       • KLM says:

         March 26, 2016 at 1:16 pm

         A follow up… we followed Steve’s and Bruce’s advice and all went well. Got my deposit refund within 4 days.
         Next week we will be going to INM and start the process of getting my wife’s RP via the family plan.

         I also want to point out that since we decided to move to Mexico several years back, I found that educating myself of the requirements and other annoying items Mexico required to do so made the move basically problem / surprise free. This site has the most accurate and informative info available on the internet! Even my attorney in PV was not aware of some of the recent changes in the immigration laws. Glad I did it myself including the move.

         FYI, getting a Menaje de Casa approved at the consulate for the import of household goods duty free is a joke. You are required to have your RT or RP card ‘before’ the consulate can issue the wavier. I found that just hauling your goods and just pay the duty was cheaper and easier. I did not want to make a second trip to the states just to get the consulate stamp. Of course, if you are using a moving company you need that list with the consulate stamp if you want to avoid the duty.
         But you have to ask yourself… is all your goods worth the hassle and expense? We only brought items that we found personal or favorite items. The rest we sold or donated to charity.

         Again, great web site. Steve, you have done an amazing job! I have recommended this site to several who are considering moving here as well. And Bruce, I find your comments both informative and accurate.
       • yucalandia says:

         April 2, 2016 at 8:02 am

         nice….
490. Bruce McGovern says:

     February 26, 2016 at 8:27 pm

     I am not exactly a neophyte on the immigration issues. Four years as FM-3, now two as Family Unity RT, and ready to go for Permanent Residence. And, I went in some time ago, and got the correct list of things I need for PR.

     But, I do have a new question. Sorry, no energy or time to read again over 1000 comments.

     We are told to apply for next document 30 days before expiration, which will be on April 3. I have a problem, partly temporary serious but curable health issues, and an imported car that has to be gone before I go to permanent residence. I would need to apply shortly after March 6 or so, and I simply am not recuperated sufficiently yet.

     There are two choices. Apply for renewal on the expected date than ask for the letter to leave, not totally sure if that keeps my imported car legal until I get it over the border.

     Or, apply like 15 days before expiration without the letter. For sure the car will be legal until 3 April if I do nothing.

     As a back-up I have looked at hiding the car somewhere and after I get my Permanent Residence, and feel up to it, apply for the five day permit.

     Also, simply turn the car over to the cops. It is 2002 with 220,000 miles, but I hate to do it. It still runs out nicely

     Any feelings on risks and punishment for applying 15 days in advance instead of 30???

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 27, 2016 at 10:58 am

       Hi Bruce,
       I think there’s good news on all fronts:
       ~ If you notified Aduana of your last renewal of your Family Unity RT, then your Aduana-TIP permit has the expiration date of April 3.

       ~ Sidelight: Your current RT permit is in force until you sign the RP’s ‘signature’ form – which may take 3 – 4 weeks.

       ~ Practical Aspects: We have heard of zero people having cars confiscated for when they first get their Permanent Residency card. (The only cases we know of came from a few difficult Federal police officers at the Cancun airport => Federal Property)

       ~ We really can’t say much about the ’15 day’ vs ’30 day’ application date issue, because there are at least 4 different policies used at various INM offices around the country => The federal INM law gives no instructions on this, so individual offices are making up their own policies, so we each have to check with our local office to find out how that handle RP applications submitted 15 days vs 30 days before the RT expires.

       ~ Background: There is a general INM policy (not including extremes) to accept letters from doctors who certify that the person was unable to come in on the expected date due to medical reasons. (??)

       Can your wife stop by your INM office and ask that 15 day v 30 day question?

       All the best,
       steve

       Reply
491. Steve says:

     February 28, 2016 at 9:39 pm

     This website needs a directory of Mexican immigration lawyers. Though the website is very helpful and chock-full of information, some people like the reassurance that comes with dealing with a professional. Though, that comes at a price. If one were moving to Merida, Steve would probably be available to personally lend a helping hand – for that region. But Mexico is a big country. One knowledgeable lawyer in Lake Chapala has been mentioned on this blog. He could probably assist those headed for Guadalajara, too, as it’s not that far away. But how about Chiapas, Oaxaca, Veracruz, Durango. A directory would be helpful.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 1, 2016 at 12:18 am

       Excellent idea.

       I’ll work on it when we get back from travels.
       Thanks,
       steve

       Reply
492. Steve C. says:

     March 2, 2016 at 10:50 pm

     Can anyone comment on the taxability of the U.S.-sourced income of a permanent resident in Mexico? From what I’ve read, the following sorts of U.S. income would be taxed in Mexico:

     a) Interest Income from a bank account in the U.S.

     b) a Social Security pension from the U.S. Federal Government

     c) a pension from a private company in the U.S.

     d) a capital gain from the sale of real estate in the U.S.

     e) rental income from property in the U.S.

     In the United States, a personal tax return doesn’t even need to be filed, or tax paid, if personal gross income is less than $10,000.

     For (North) Americans now residing in Mexico, where do they stand, with reference to the Mexican government, regarding filing requirements and gross income thresholds for income generated in the U.S.?

     Reply
     • Esscritora (@Esscritora) says:

       March 3, 2016 at 6:13 pm

       Steve, I’m not an accountant but I am a green card holder (Residente Permanente) in Mexico, and your query made me curious. Here’s what I found:

       At the following website, https://en.santandertrade.com/establish-overseas/mexico/tax-system

       • “Residents must pay taxes for their worldwide income, non-residents must pay only for income earned from Mexican sources.”

       • Tax Rate imposed on an individual’s income varies from 1.92% to 30%.
       from MXN 1 to 5,953 1.92%
       from MXN 5,954 to 50,525 6.40%
       from MXN 50,526 to 88,793 10.88%
       from MXN 88,794 to 103,218 16%
       from MXN 103,219 to 123,580 17.92%
       from MXN 123,581 to 249,243 21.36%
       from MXN 249,244 to 342,842 23.52%
       Over MXN 342,843 30%

       Allowable Deductions and Tax Credits
       There are several types of deductions attributed to taxpayers in Mexico. You can find out the nature of all the deductions by contacting Mexican Federal Tax Administration (http://www.sat.gob.mx and it says you can get the site in English, but nothing changed when I selected English).

       Special Expatriate Tax Regime
       If a foreigner resides in Mexico for business purposes for more than 183 days per year, he can obtain a special tax rate, however there are no special deductions for expatriates.

       Reply
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       March 3, 2016 at 9:13 pm

       I cannot give a professional answer to that question. I will say if any of those things are taxable to expats, we are all going to jail. Just saying. I await a professional answer to your question, because soon I will be a permanent resident then hopefully a Mexican. If I am going to have to pay taxes on my pension and SS income, I need to know ASAP.

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 6, 2016 at 9:09 am

       Hi Steve,
       Sorry for the delaying replying – as we are travelling and super-busy with grandkids (inc. a newborn), wills, buying a condo, and helping moving our kids into their new home.

       For details … See our main article on taxes at:

       IRS Tax Issues for Americans Living and Working Abroad in Mexico – Master Article

       and then at the bottom of that Master Article on Taxes, see the other links to other tax-matter articles.

       Quickly: The Mexican ISR concept/definitions of of “principle place of fiscal activity”, and IRS’s definition of “tax home” determine the answers to your Items a, d, and e.

       Items b and c are addressed by Article 19 of the tax treaty (as describe in our Master Tax Article) => US pensions are not taxable in Mexico.

       steve

       Reply
493. Esscritora (@Esscritora) says:

     March 3, 2016 at 6:41 pm

     I also found this PDF from Deloitte entitled “Mexico Taxation and Investment 2014”:
     http://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/global/Documents/Tax/dttl-tax-mexicoguide-2014.pdf?lien_externe_oui=Continue

     It says: “Taxable income includes remuneration for personal services (including salary, bonuses and special allowances, such as housing), interest, corporate dividends paid out of gross income, capital gains, rental income, etc. Pension benefits are tax-exempt up to nine times the legal minimum salary for the region. Severance payment benefits are exempt up to 90 times the daily base salary of the region multiplied by the number of years employed.”

     and

     “The following expenses are deductible in computing personal income tax:
     • Medical and dental fees and hospital expenses incurred by the taxpayer and the taxpayer’s spouse or other dependents with income no higher than the annual minimum salary;
     • Health insurance premiums and charitable donations;
     • Mortgage interest payments (real interest) when mortgage credit is up to 750,000 investment units or UDIS;
     • Personal pension account contributions up to five minimum annual salaries; and
     • School transportation expenses of direct descendants, when such transportation is mandatory under domestic law.

     Rates
     All personal deductions are limited to the lowest amount between the amount of four annual minimum salaries or 10% of the total income (taxable and nontaxable).
     Taxpayers whose income consists of professional fees may deduct normal and documented expenses, similar to those deductible by businesses. A simplified tax system for individual taxpayers that engage in business activities is available.”

     and finally,

     “The tax year for resident individuals is the calendar year. … Married individuals may not file a joint tax return; each spouse must file a separate return if both spouses have taxable income.”

     Reply
494. Bruce McGovern says:

     March 3, 2016 at 9:27 pm

     But I will be surprised if any nation on the planet except the USA makes you pay taxes on income in another nation. This comment has been made many times on expat boards.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 6, 2016 at 9:15 am

       Hi Bruce,
       In broad general legal theory, Mexican citizens worldwide income is taxable.

       Fortunately, the 1993 Mexico-USA Tax Convention (treaty) offers lots of exemptions, and fairly easily understandable guidelines.

       e.g.
       “ARTICLE 1
       General Scope
       1. This Convention shall apply to persons who are residents of one or both of the Contracting
       States, except as otherwise provided in the Convention.
       2. The Convention shall not restrict in any manner any exclusion, exemption, deduction, credit, or
       other allowance now or hereafter accorded:
       a) by the laws of either Contracting State; or
       b) by any other agreement between the Contracting States. ”

       In other words, payments made to the IRS are credited against any taxes owed to Mexico, and vice versa => No Double Taxation …
       and
       each government MUST honor the exemptions and credits and deductions allowed by the other.

       So, if gains on a Mexican property sale are exempt in Mexico, the US IRS must honor that exemption … or so says one legal expert.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
495. Steve C. says:

     March 3, 2016 at 10:36 pm

     Bruce, the reality is that the MAJORITY of countries in the world tax foreign-sourced income, both for their native-born citizens and for their foreign nationals. If you look at the following chart, you’ll see that from the standpoint of taxation, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Panama are preferable to Mexico. I’m not advocating that you move to Central America, just noting that those countries WILL NOT tax your foreign income, and that Mexico will.
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_taxation#Individuals

     Reply
496. Bruce McGovern says:

     March 3, 2016 at 11:27 pm

     Yucalandia has a separate page on the tax issues, which is probably where this should be linked, though that is not my decision.

     Tax Issues for Americans and Other Expats Living in Mexico

     Note that on that page Steve seems to be a little unsure of what expats should be doing on taxes for foreign income. AT east that is how it reads to me.

     There are two issues in this topic. One is the law itself. What does the law actually say? The other issue is what is actually enforced. I really doubt those millions of illegals in the USA pay one cent of taxes to Mexico, and I really doubt Mexico bothers to, er, bother them about it. I am willing to be corrected, but not by Wikipedia.

     I know for many years the law in Iowa said one had to pay Iowa income tax on pensions paid by Iowa companies, even if they lived in another state after retirement. The state tax people nailed a few folks who left the state and did not even know they were supposed to pay that tax, then later returned to Iowa. But, finally the tax agency requested the law be repealed because it was for all practical purposes unenforceable and cost more than it took in.

     Your original posting seemed to be asking a question. But, in the end, your postings seem to be other than a question in nature, and it is apparent you posted with full knowledge of the answer. Right?

     i will say, though that your point is well made. Most expats probably have no idea they are supposed to file tax forms in Mexico. I did not. In all my readings over 30 years of various sources this is the first hint that I may have to file forms when I become Mexican. I will be checking it out.

     Everything I read over the years said it was not a problem. But, of course, the things I read were of Wikipedia quality and not professional.

     Thinking further, my wife is a Mexican citizen, who returned after over 40 years legally in the US. Her income sources are the same as mine, and no one has ever told her to file Mexican tax forms.

     Yes, I will be checking this out further.but professionally.

     Reply
497. Bruce McGovern says:

     March 3, 2016 at 11:43 pm

     I stand corrected. Yucalandia has several pages on taxes. https://yucalandia.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/tax-issues-for-americans-living-and-working-in-mexico-a-redux-for-2012/ specifically says pension and Social Security income is taxable only in the nation which pays it. Reference supplied. So, that is why I know of no one who has been filing Mexican income taxes. They are not required to do so.

     Reply
498. Steve C. says:

     March 3, 2016 at 11:58 pm

     I’ll take a look at the link that you posted from yucalandia, but it appears to be about tax obligations that U.S. citizens may have in the U.S. if they move to Mexico. There is also a U.S.-Mexico treaty to avoid double taxation. That may supply some good information on the subject.

     The Wikipedia link that I posted references a 2011 Ernst & Young PDF, a reputable tax accountancy firm I’m sure you’ve heard of.

     Click to access GE_2011_Global_Executive.pdf

     Like yourself, I’d like to see a professional tax advisor in Mexico address this issue in this forum.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 6, 2016 at 8:36 am

       Read our articles on taxes, especially the main article at:

       IRS Tax Issues for Americans Living and Working Abroad in Mexico – Master Article

       Gotta run … urgent Grandpa duty is calling,
       steve

       Reply
499. Bruce McGovern says:

     March 4, 2016 at 5:58 pm

     Professionals normally expect to be paid for writing opinions.

     The link I posted specifically said pension and social security payments are taxed ONLY In the nation which pays them. Which is why I don’t know any expats who pay taxes in Mexico. I suggest that specifically means they do not have any tax obligation in Mexico if their only income is pension and Social Security. Though you seem to try to evade that issue in this posting, I would say that very specifically answers a couple of your “questions.”

     Reply
500. Bruce McGovern says:

     March 4, 2016 at 6:15 pm

     The EY document is hopelessly obsolete. An obsolete document is like an expired passport. Interesting but of no value.

     1. FM2 and FM3 no longer exist.

     2. The temporary permits are NOT for six months. They are for 180 days.

     3. USA and Mexico do have reciprocity driver’s license agreement. Canada may, too, but I am not going to say for sure because I am not. I have driven well over 100,000 km in Mexico on a US driver’s license, and several weeks ago asked a state police official in my state’s capitol, and he assured me my US d/l was valid.

     4. D/L for foreigners does not require a work permit. I have just been looking recently at getting a Mexican d/l for the cops who don’t know the US d/l is valid in Mexico.

     Reply
501. Steve C. says:

     March 4, 2016 at 7:16 pm

     Steve, the owner of the Yucalandia website, can you address this issue? Anyone that can put up a website with such detailed information on migrating to Mexico surely knows the answer. Steve, you live in Mexico. Merida, right? I don’t believe that you are a retiree from the U.S. You MUST HAVE confronted this issue in the recent past. Additionally, there is a practicing attorney that has an office in Chapala, and that has commented in this forum a number of times. This lawyer has many clients in Chapala, a haven for retirees from the U.S. He definitely would know the answer! If neither give a response, everyone on this website should conclude that’s an affirmative answer, that U.S. retirees have a tax obligation to the Mexican government on their foreign-sourced income.

     Regarding some country stating that there is no tax obligation ANYWHERE in the world on the pensions that they give out is laughable. Hell, the U.S. taxes the social security payments that they hand out! Why would you think Mexico wouldn’t want a piece of that action.

     As for the driver’s license thing, that caught my eye to. I agree, it’s an error. By the way, I’ve driven 400,000 MILES between Canada, the U.S., Mexico and Central America! I live in Central America.

     That Wikipedia website should have a few more footnotes. In particular, one for the Dominican Republic. It DOES tax the foreign-source income of foreign nationals, but they have a special law for retirees that exempts their foreign -source income. Google it. Mexico, to my knowledge, DOES NOT have such as special law on its books.

     You can conveniently claim ignorance regarding this taxation in Mexico, and never have a problem. If push comes to shove, though, it’s another source of revenue for a government whose main income, the sale of its petroleum, has dried up, for the most part. Particularly, if Trump builds his wall!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 6, 2016 at 8:34 am

       Hi,
       I’m on personal travel now – having fun caring for our 3 yr old grandson & his new-born baby brother, so our current schedules are full of childcare + moving + purchasing a property to live in in the USA part of the year.

       Note that “Article 19” of the US-Mexico Tax Convention says that pension income and Social Security benefits are exempt.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
502. Bruce McGovern says:

     March 4, 2016 at 7:52 pm

     “The link I posted specifically said pension and social security payments are taxed ONLY In the nation which pays them. ” is what the linked page said, a page produced by Steve with citation. It did refer to Mexico and the USA. I am not going to argue with you any more.

     I did say I appreciate your bringing this to our attention. Due to Social Security and Pension paid in the US not being taxable in Mexico, I had no contact with the tax system.

     Reply
503. Bruce McGovern says:

     March 4, 2016 at 7:53 pm

     “If neither give a response, everyone on this website should conclude that’s an affirmative answer, that U.S. retirees have a tax obligation to the Mexican government on their foreign-sourced income.”

     Do you really think so?

     Reply
504. Steve C. says:

     March 4, 2016 at 8:51 pm

     It would have been nice, and saved a lot of back and forth, if you just c/c/p’ed this specific bit of information from that URL: From the 1993 U.S.-Mexico Tax Convention:

     “Pension income and Social Security benefits are exempt. (Article 19)
     “…a) pensions and other similar remuneration derived and beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment by that individual or another individual resident of the same Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State;”

     The last clause means that pension and Social Security benefits are basically taxable only in the “State” (country) that is paying them => Meaning that in typical expat retiree cases, (see Article 20 Government Service exceptions), US pension benefits can only be taxed in the USA, and Mexican pension benefits can only be taxed in Mexico.

     We report this last item, because the internet currently has a number of seemingly reliable reports from impressive sounding authors like Deloitte and US News and World Report, who just got these two… wrong, in their most recent reports. (And yes, this Tax Treaty has been around since 1993, so, one would think that the “experts” would be able to get something so important to 10,000’s of expats retired in Mexico… not to mention the upcoming 40 million retirees who will have about $1 million of net assets as they retire between 2014 – 2030. )”

     Thanks for the information, Bruce, it’s what I was looking for.

     Reply

505. Pingback: Adventure Financing | woman43

506. Allen says:

     March 7, 2016 at 4:08 pm

     my Mexican wife and I retired in the USA in April 2015, and planned to live in Sisal. INM disallowed our 2006 Mexican marriage license because it contains my mother’s maiden name, which I never used. In 2006, Nuevo Laredo office of Regoistro Civil got my mother’s maiden name from her death certificate. Nobody ever questioned our marriage license before for my old FM3, or my wife’s permanent residency in USA. We do not know what to do.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 8, 2016 at 8:38 am

       Hi Allen,
       Where are you living now?

       Have you spoken with a good Notario or abogado in the city of your INM office – one with good connections with the INM office? Lawyers/Notarios with good relations with the INM office can appeal the prior rejection with the local delegado – and possibly get the prior rejection overturned.

       Really, your case is an SUPERB EXAMPLE of how crucially important it is to check every detail of official government documents before signing them.

       In my wife and my case, Yucatan’s Registro Civil office rejected our US marriage license because they said it was fake, because it was not fancy enough – no deer, no pheasants, no illumination.

       After exhausting our legal appeal options: I pointed out that we were not married in the eyes of the law, so they agreed to (re) marry us in Yucatan that month (after 2 years of wrangling).

       One possible solution: I would go to the Yucatan (oversight over Sisal) Registro Civil and ask if they agree with INM’s assessment. Some state Registro Offices can issue a ‘constancia’ document that that formally resolves naming issues related to marriage documents, passports, etc.

       If the Yucatan State Civil Registro will not legally recognize your earlier marriage and not issue a constancia carta resolving your naming issue on the Nuevo Laredo mistaken document, then Yucatan should be willing to marry you. …

       Short of going back to Nuevo Laredo’s Registro Civil office to have the marriage certificate re-issued with correct names, or working through things with the Yucatan – you may be left with changing your legal name in the USA to match the marriage license, getting your passport reissued with the new name, hassle hassle hassle.

       Since property ownership, inheritances, arranging death benefits/arrangements, and a host of other things can hinge on having a valid marriage certificate, it’s worth resolving the problem.

       Best of Luck!

       Please come back and tell us how it works out,
       steve

       Reply
       • Steve C. says:

         March 8, 2016 at 12:28 pm

         I would think that a Constancia would be all that is needed. I live in Central America and had an issue where the tax ID card that was given to me, and that I had signed off on, had the wrong date of birth. I got a Constancia letter that could be shown, if necessary, noting the error. I thought it was stupid at the time. I thought, why don’t they just enter their computer system, update the data and give me a new card. I think it has to do with the particular legal systems that each country has adopted historically. In the United States, it’s Common Law. They follow the notion of “precedent” in legal proceedings. Lawyers and judges look to how cases were decided years ago – and follow those “footsteps” in their decisions. [I don’t think that’s exactly optimum either. People, cultures, societies evolve.]

         Mexico follows Civil Law, a completely different ballgame. If I’m not mistaken, the American state of Louisiana does, as well – from when they were a French colony. I’ve heard that system described as being one where you are guilty until proven innocent. Just the opposite of common law jurisdictions where you are, supposedly, innocent until proven otherwise.
       • yucalandia says:

         March 9, 2016 at 9:18 am

         Great!

         You understand the concept of a “constancia” document that identifies, explains & expiates the error in the marriage certificate.

         We’ve read internet accounts from across Mexico on the relative success/failure of this approach across Mexico, and it appears to be about 60:40 … when being used to explain why a US woman’s birth certificate says one name (maiden name) versus passports, IDs, drivers licenses, INM cards. …

         Happy Trails,
         steve
       • Allen says:

         March 9, 2016 at 8:40 am

         thanks for the rapid reply, we are soliciting a travel letter tomorrow. INM refused to parilizar the tramite for 90 days, even though I entered proof that I need surgery pronto. Soooo the travel letter. thanks again.
507. goatwrangler says:

     March 8, 2016 at 11:34 am

     Congratulations Steve on spending time with your grand babies, I know mine are the joy of my life.
     And on that note, I am trying to help my daughter (one without dependents). Hillary entered Mexico in Oct. ’15 on a tourist visa with a TIP for her car. She was under a deadline to get here at that time and so did not get the necessary documents to apply for an RT. She also had no idea if she would want to stay or would be able to find work. So here we are, she wants to live and work here and be able to drive her ’03 Nissan. From studying your site it appears she could apply for her RT under my RP and avoid the income/asset requirements (Vinculo Familiar poor Unidad de Familia) by changing her status on the IMM website, (cambia de condition de estancia a resident permanent poor vinculo familiar).
     Here are my questions: Can her application for RT be done in Mexico without leaving?
     What about the TIP? Can she update the expiration of the TIP to match her RT?
     I understand she cannot have an RT Lucrativa and have a TIP vehicle, which would mean working without the Lucrative or taking the car back to the border to nationalize it. Yes, she has a job offer as a sub contractor, not as an employee. She could actually qualify for RT with her shares of our family corporation or possibly asset statements, but it seems using my RP is much easier.
     In all of this muddle, she flew out last week to TX for 5 days, so my understanding is her TIP is no longer valid, the car is here illegally and her insurance will no longer be valid either.
     I would appreciate your thoughts and advice.
     Thanks,
     Holly

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 9, 2016 at 9:32 am

       Hi GW,
       You understand correctly about the Vinculo Familiar: She does not have to leave Mexico to apply under the Unidad de Familia plan/program … but they do sometimes ask to see financial documentation of income/deposits/savings … depending on the local their policies.

       Re car, TIP, valid insurance & flying-out on a visitante visa:
       Your understandings are pretty complete.
       ~ Her TIP vehicle is now in Mexico illegally, as it expired automatically when she surrendered the visitante visa at the airport when flying out.

       ~ She’s in the same boat with a likely-20,000 to 50,000 other expats who have expired-TIPs, invalid TIPs, etc. I mention this because there seem to have been NO crack-downs on this violation in the past 4 years.

       ~ Her insurance may … or may not … still be valid.
       Some Mexican insurers do invalidate coverage for operating an illegal vehicle, while others have no restrictions on this. We have not tracked which ones do cancel nor which ones accept it – as they could change their policies at any moment, and we don’t want that liability

       ~ In the past it was easy to get a Retorno Seguro permit (valid for 5 business days) to take vehicles out of Mexico … but that changed to applications w/Mexico City Aduana about months ago.

       See our article on vehicles in Mexico for details at: https://yucalandia.com/driving-in-mexico-issues-fun/importing-driving-a-car-in-mexico/

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • goatwrangler says:

         March 15, 2016 at 12:30 pm

         The plan now is to make application for the RT using my RP this Friday. I can imagine with the Semana Santa holiday that the amount of time to process will double. In the meantime, Hillary will drive her car to the border prior to the April 13th TIP expiration. She understands that the permit was voided when she left Mexico by plane last month, turning in her tourist visa that was attached to the permit. She does feel that it is safer driving the car to the border with a TIP that has a current date printed on it in the event she is pulled over by the Police. She will not have her RT prior to crossing into the USA, at least not by my understanding of a month or more for processing. She will then have to get a new TIP attached to a new tourist visa and then drive back down to Puerto Vallarta. My question is, can she transfer the TIP that will be attached to her tourist visa to the new RT that she will eventually receive in PV?
         It has also been suggested that she look into an agricultural license plate once she receives her RT, eliminating the need for a TIP.
         Your advice as always is greatly appreciated.
         Holly
       • yucalandia says:

         March 15, 2016 at 4:39 pm

         Hi GW,
         I think you’ve got a little hiccup in your plan.

         If she wants to leave Mexico while her RT visa application is in processing, then she must submit a letter to INM asking permission to leave Mexico, explaining the reason for travel abroad.

         INM then takes about 2-3 business days to process a permit letter for her to use to exit Mexico, and use to re-enter Mexico. If she stops and gets a visitors visa when re-entering Mexico, INM often considers this visa fraud due to trying to have 2 visas simultaneously (as detected by their nationwide computer database).

         So, if she takes the vehicle to the border, she would need to convince Aduana at the border to use the Exit~Re-Entry Permit letter from INM as documentation of her upcoming RT visa. We have never heard of Aduana doing this, though …

         She may need to wait until she has the RT visa approved, fotos’s delivered, and signature card signed to get a document from INM that Aduana might accept. Some Aduana offices have accepted that intermediate INM document that shows that the RT visa has been approved but not issued yet. … other Aduana offices have said “no” to this…

         Otherwise she may need to wait until she has her RT visa card in hand, before re-registering the vehicle with Aduana at the border.

         Best of Luck,
         steve
       • goatwrangler says:

         March 15, 2016 at 5:06 pm

         I am thinking she needs to hold off applying for her RT until she returns from the border with her new TIP and Tourist Visa, any problem with this?
         1. Is her TIP void and will she lose her deposit even if she drives back before the expiration date on the permit?
         2. Should she wait to apply for her Residente Temporal after she renews her tourist visa and TIP next month?
         3. Can she change the status of her tourist visa in country and then transfer the TIP to the new RT visa?
         Thanks as always, we keep your link on our website as so many folks have found it helpful.
         Holly de Rancho Sol y Mar, Mayto, Jalsico, Mexico
       • Holly says:

         March 24, 2016 at 8:35 am

         I completed a search of the forums and have not found any information on requirements to obtaining an agriculture license plate. Would you please PM me if you have any experience with this? I would also be interested if anyone has come to Mexico with a tourist visa + TIP and then acquired their Residente Temporal in Mexico and managed to transfer their TIP to their new visa.
         Thanks in advance.
       • yucalandia says:

         April 2, 2016 at 8:05 am

         Are you referring to the UCD plates or ONAPPAFA plates ?

         Note that Federal police have threatened to confiscate GTO UCD-plated vehicles driven outside of Guanajuato. (NOT LEGAL for use across Mexico – only in a few states)

         We have info on these semi-legal plates at:

         UCD Plated Vehicle Owners Advised to Drive ONLY Within Their Own States

         steve
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         April 2, 2016 at 4:45 pm

         Holly says:
         March 24, 2016 at 8:35 am

         I don’t know where this will appear. But, in 2014 I entered Mexico on a 180 day permit for the purpose of getting Temporary Resident Family Unity. Yes, my car had the TIP. I took a scouting trip before applying for my residency. I knew where the Puebla Aduanas was, and talked to them.

         They gave me a page to type up, which was application to change TIP for FMM to TIP for TR. When I got my TR from INM I took a taxi to Aduanas with that page typed up and ready to go. They stamped it and it did pass a State or Federal Police reten, i forgot which one.

         They sent the application to Mexico City. It took several months to be processed. My car was legal, but as a result of the delay, I did lose the bond. Eventually, one day I was walking up the hill to my house and a white government pickup stopped and asked me if my name was Bruce McGovern. All day these two people drive around the state of Puebla taking the extension documents to the persons. They check I.d. and sign a number of legal documents. it must cost them a fortune.

         The second year, same woman, different driver, but this time they knew where to find me.

         This year, with the change to permanent resident, I took the car across the border and it is parked at our mobile home. I bought a 2009 Sienna from the Toyota dealer. No, I cannot recommend them due to shenanigans.

         I don’t know if this is what you wanted or not. But, I did change TIP to the correct status for TR.

508. Pingback: Good question | EMS Artifact

509. Amy Rogers says:

     March 8, 2016 at 7:52 pm

     Thanks for all the great information!

     I’m a new Permanent Resident, have the card. I’m applying to a job and they’ve asked me for my FMM. I can’t locate it. Would Immigration have taken that when I got my Permanent Resident card? Do they require it as part of the canje process?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 9, 2016 at 8:14 am

       Hi Amy,
       You assume correctly: INM took your “Exiting Mexico” (half of the) FMM form when they issued you your RP card.

       Show your RP card to your prospective employer, and say that it is your only official immigration document.

       Further, note that RP’s only use and only get an FMM form when they LEAVE Mexico. As you leave Mexico, you stop by the INM office every time to log-out from Mexico, where you fill out both halves of the FMM, – with you writing RESIDENTE PERMANENTE boldly across the white spots on the top of each half.

       INM keeps the ‘Exiting Mexico’ half, and gives you the “Entering Mexico” half for you to use when re-entering Mexico on your return.

       Happy Trails & Good Luck w/ the job,
       steve

       **A final thought: Do you have a tax ID number from SAT/Hacienda ?

       Reply
       • Amy Rogers says:

         March 10, 2016 at 9:24 pm

         Thanks very much! No, I don’t have a tax ID number. Just a CURP.
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         March 11, 2016 at 4:37 pm

         RFC can be obtained on-line if you have your CURP. Been there, did that.
       • yucalandia says:

         March 11, 2016 at 8:42 pm

         Yep.

         For details, see our website of useful Mexican web-links, web-addresses at:
         https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/useful-mexican-websites/

         steve
       • Amy Rogers says:

         March 12, 2016 at 7:47 am

         Thanks Bruce and Steve!
510. ranchosolymar says:

     March 9, 2016 at 9:55 am

     Great! I will help her make application for a RT using my RP. What happens to the now non-valid TIP?
     Thanks so much for your clear and non-judge mental replies, it is greatly appreciated.
     Holly aka Isabel the goat wrangler.🐐

     Reply
511. yucalandia says:

     March 10, 2016 at 12:07 am

     Hi Isabel,
     You are one good egg.

     It’s probably best to get your daughter the RT visa,
     and
     ~ then have her take the car to a border,

     ~ have her surrender the old TIP to Banjercito … which is no problem as they have already confiscated the $$ deposit … be sure to give them the paper document that came with the TIP windshield sticker to avoid hassles.

     ~ have her get a new TIP with her new RT …

     ~ Keep the RT renewed/valid, and promptly notify Aduana in writing of the new expiration, every time she renews the RT visa.

     Happy Trails,
     steve

     Reply
     • ranchosolymar says:

       March 10, 2016 at 8:13 am

       Ok we will make application pronto for Hillar’s RT. Am I correct that it doesn’t matter when we take the car out after that since her TIP is invalid already and her deposit has been forfeited?
       Gracias por todo!

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         March 10, 2016 at 4:59 pm

         Correct…

         except for the (tiny? small?) random possibility that when you cross a state border (like Yucatan-Q.Roo) they decide to check your TIP… as happened with one friend.

         There are very few other reports the past 3 years (though there are some) about the police confiscating vehicles with expired TIPs. …
         steve
512. ranchosolymar says:

     March 10, 2016 at 8:25 pm

     sirry to belabor this point. When Hillary turned in her tourist visa at the airport, how was/is that communicated to Banjercito? Her TIP expiration is April 13,2016. If she drove to the border prior to that and turned in her TIP, would she potentially receive her deposit back? I know the TIP booth is separate from Immigration when driving out through Nogales & Columbia. (Should she in hindsight not give up her tourist visa & paid a fine for it being “lost”?) I ask because this is opposite of advice given on another forum.
     Thanks again,
     Holly

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 11, 2016 at 7:45 am

       Hi Isabel,
       When she got the TIP, it was issued as directly linked to her visitante visa #.

       The papers she signed says that she agreed to take the vehicle out of Mexico & surrender the Tip, before the visitante visa expires or is surrendered.

       The INM database computers logged her exit from Mexico & her cancellation of her visitante visa. The INM databases are linked to the Aduana computer databases which are linked to the Banjercito databases.

       When the visitante visa is … lost … surrendered … expired … or cancelled: Both the Aduana & Banjercito databases are updated to show that the visa associated with the TIP is no longer valid … then the Banjercito database computer AUTOMATICALLY confiscates the $$ TIP deposit.

       Wish I had better news.

       Wish you had gotten better quality advice on these things – as there’s a lot of mistaken non-factual advice offered on the internet.

       Hope it all works out OK,
       steve

       E

       Reply
513. Bruce McGovern says:

     April 1, 2016 at 11:26 pm

     I got my Permanent Residence Family Unity today. What a happy day for me!

     It wasn{t easy. I started with FM-3 for I think four years, just as they changed the laws. I thought I had to apply for FU at the consulate so went to the border, and was told, no, get an FMM and go to Puebla for FU. So, I had to start the two more years as Temporary Resident.

     In 2014, I was told I had to register our foreign marriage in the State Capitol office. I called them, and they told me, no, you MUST do it in her native village. It took a while but we got it done.

     In 2014, INM accepted the village document as marriage certificate. Lilkewise in 2015. In 2016, suddenly they changed and said we MUST get it in the Capitol office and CANNOT use the village documents (even though they were based on the US marriage license with apostille and official translation, and included the legal name change for my wife.

     I ‘cried’ really well, telling how sick I had been (which was true, SIBO), Finally, she supervisor said if I would scan and send her the documents, (certificate; apostille; translation) by e-mail she would forward it to the marriage office and get the certificate made up.

     I included the name change documents and said please be sure you can do this on a Mexican marriage certificate form.

     I heard nothing and some days passed. I finally got my notification two days ago. Today, we went in. No mention was made of the marriage certificate or anything connected to it. I watched carefully and there was no new marriage certificate visible in the package, though the village certificate was visible because it was legal aize.

     I thought, you know, I don’t think they made the certificate at all. My wife said, “I am going to ask how to get a copy of the marriage certificate.”

     I told her, “SHHHH! Don’t you even whisper about that certificate until I have my card!”

     I will never know for sure, but I think when they realized they didn’t know how to make a Mexican certificate from a US one, while incorporating a legal Mexican name change, someone in higher position discovered what they were doing, and said, “what on earth are you doing? Does anyone here believe they have not been married for 40 years? In 2014, you believed they were married, ditto for 2015. If not, I suggest you just give him his Permanent Residency and that will be the last time he ever comes to this office.”

     I realize that is a wild conjecture, but it is what limited evidence would indicate to me in absence of further information.

     While we were waiting, we did go to the village marriage registrar. she agreed, yes, this is not a real marriage certificate.” She made the standard stupid suggestion that we marry again.

     .I told her, “NO! That is an insult to my wife and to me that we were not married the last 40 years. it is also an insult to the Mexican people that a Mexican citizen married 40 years ago in another country cannot get a marriage certificate here. The Mexican people are smarter than that.”

     I vowed not to re-marry no matter what. if I have to start over as retiree, I am not going to pretend we were not married and do it again, just because government officials are stupid.

     I would have contacted my nieces to talk to their bosses of many years, Federal legislators, to see if they can pass a law which would force the government agencies to develop provisions for providing marriage certificates for citizens married in other countries.

     Fortunately things worked out.

     I did ask the question My wife and I are in our 70’s. If she dies, do I have to leave? I was told, no, your permanent residence is permanent, and as a viudo you do not need to leave.

     There are more weird details, but that is enough this late at night. I am elated!

     Reply
     • RC says:

       April 1, 2016 at 11:49 pm

       Congratulations! I know it has been a long ride for you. I hope you can savor the moment and now maybe take on the citizenship fun?!

       I was also told by INM consult that once you have your permanent card, you are permanent. Even if you were to divorce after, you are permanent and will always have it.

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         April 2, 2016 at 9:27 am

         I have every intention of trying for citizenship. That was my thought back in the late 80’s, when I first realized my country did not like me very much.
       • RC says:

         April 2, 2016 at 10:43 am

         Please keep me updated on the citizenship steps. Are you going to start right away or take a break from buearaucracy for a while?
       • yucalandia says:

         April 3, 2016 at 1:32 am

         There’s a good discussion/description of how the citizenship process works, both in Merida and in other places on Mexconnect.

         John Shrall and myself wrote detailed accounts of what worked, and how it worked … at:
         http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=196392;page=5;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

         and

         http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=193339;search_string=citizenship;#193339

         and

         http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=196392;page=4;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
       • goatwrangler says:

         April 3, 2016 at 6:11 am

         I will be applying for citizenship here in Jalisco state and will keep you posted. I’m actually in language school at the moment in San Cristobal de las Casas studying. Thankfully now that I have passed the 6th decade I won’t be required to remember or test for history.
       • yucalandia says:

         April 3, 2016 at 7:58 am

         Much obliged for the future updates!

         Each regional SRE office can set some of their own standards, especially when it comes to the Spanish proficiency testing – so, it’s useful to hear each office’s standards on naturalized citizenship applications/testing.

         Best of Luck!
         steve
       • goatwrangler says:

         April 17, 2016 at 8:44 pm

         Hola Steve, Our accountant/lawyer says a Vinculo Familiar is only possible for family members under 18 years old. Does this jive with your info? Thanks, Holly

         http://www.ranchosolymar.com

         >
       • yucalandia says:

         April 18, 2016 at 6:45 am

         Hi Isabel,
         Nope, clearly not.

         Fortunately, it’s not just ‘my info’.
         Since 2012, the INM Law clearly includes parents … (over 18)

         Other evidence: A 75 yr old friend was easily qualified under Vinculo Familiar back in 2013.

         Happy Trails, steve
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         April 18, 2016 at 12:32 pm

         i got my permanent residence family unity a couple days before my 74th birthday. I am perhaps harsh, but would not recommend any confidence in that person on any topic.
       • yucalandia says:

         April 18, 2016 at 2:44 pm

         Hey Bruce!
         *grin*

         “Man hears what he wants to hear…
         and disregards the rest …”

         For some people:
         Decision making looks an awful lot like poll-taking.

         … for other people:
         Decision making includes both consulting sources that/who are rooted in facts …

         and digging out facts from verified official legal sources.

         Really … don’t we rely on Accountants …
         and Lawyers
         … to give us specialized …
         ~ highly accurate ~ advice … every time ~ **

         because we’re paying them to be the expert?

         … When we pay an ‘expert’ … to give us very wrong answers,

         how are we to know which of their past answers were correct?

         and How are we to know which of their current and future answers are correct?**

         It really is no good to rely on a lawyer
         … nor accountant
         … nor physician
         … nor politician …

         who is completely wrong part of the time.

         Just like auto mechanics …
         maybe 1 in 5 of those ‘expert’ ‘professionals
         is good at what they do.

         One is a rat…
         Three (3) are partly-competent, some of the time, on limited things.

         … and one is worth relying on.
         *grin*
         steve
       • yucalandia says:

         April 18, 2016 at 2:49 pm

         **Trying to guess when your expert is wrong on key advice … is like going to a casino to earn more money …

         Hmmmm… red .. or black ?

         Hit … or stay ?

         Re-raise … or fold ?

         Relying on mediocre lawyers, mediocre physicians, mediocre politicians, and mediocre accountants …

         really can be far worse than doing it yourself.

         *groan*
         steve
       • ranchosolymar says:

         April 18, 2016 at 6:14 pm

         I agree with your comments, I’ve never been a lawyer lover. I think his information is incorrect because in reality he has a woman in his office doing the immigration work. Thanks as always! Holly

         http://www.ranchosolymar.com

         >
     • yucalandia says:

       April 2, 2016 at 7:50 am

       WONDERFUL !

       Congrats Bruce!

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         April 2, 2016 at 9:07 am

         Thanks. Though I love my life here in this little village, there are few days like yesterday!
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       April 2, 2016 at 9:03 am

       Let me add a note I forgot. At no time, did I have to show income papers. I cannot say that will be the case in other states, but it was true in Puebla. There is always the possibility that they have the previous data, I cannot say, but they never mentioned it.

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         April 2, 2016 at 9:09 am

         Rats! I mean I did not have to show income during the Family Unity sequence. Clearly, I did on FM-3. Sorry about the mistake.
     • sdibaja says:

       April 3, 2016 at 9:02 am

       Steve aka Yucalandia:
       you said “Each regional SRE office can set some of their own standards, especially when it comes to the Spanish proficiency testing” I have bad days, so the Spanish proficiency testing is important to me.
       I will be applying in Ensenada, BC.
       Is there any current feedback about testing of us that are over 60?
       Thanks, Peter

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         April 5, 2016 at 7:20 am

         Good Morning Peter,
         Check with expats who’ve used that office lately, or check with a good immigration Notario (or attorney) who has connections with that office.

         Our SRE office has been expecting decent conversational Spanish abilities from over 60 applicants – sending some back home to practice their Spanish for a month or 2 before allowing them to pass. …

         The Guadalajara office used to have one Spanish language examiner who spoke Spanish horribly – making him difficult to understand for even native Spanish speakers … *sigh*

         … ? …
         steve
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         April 5, 2016 at 9:33 am

         That language requirement worries me. I did not start learning Spanish until I was well into my 40’s. At my age, 74, a few months or a few years, will not dramatically improve my Spanish. So, the language test could be a killer. It is not helped by the fact I don’t hear well, even in English. It is the problem mentioned in Scientific American some years ago. Older men sometimes lose their capacity to decode sounds they hear, rather than reduced hearing capability. It is at its worst when there are conflicting noises, such as TV or radio. The man may be able to hear okay in a totally quiet room.You can tell this right away when some smart-alecky son or daughter comments, “He can hear when he wants to.” The hearing aid companies sell a lot of high priced junk because of this decoding problem.

         I function very well with no one to translate when my wife visits her grandson for a month. But, a test in a government office is a different matter.
       • yucalandia says:

         April 5, 2016 at 12:52 pm

         Hi Bruce,
         Unfortunately, I’ve only mentioned 2 of the more difficult SRE regional office’s policies. Other SRE offices can have only minimal Spanish language competency requirements – but without specific first-person reports about specific offices, we can’t say which ones are easy & which are hard.
         steve
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         April 5, 2016 at 6:01 pm

         I describe myself as an optimistic dooms-dayer. Regularly, I prepare for the worst thing that can possibly happen, thus am almost never surprised. That sounds pessimistic, but no, I almost always come out rather well, since the worst thing that can possibly happen seldom happens. And dealing with anything less is a slam-dunk.

         Years ago, a friend told me he used to be very angry because I was always preparing for horrible things that never happen to anyone. Then, over time he noticed that horrible things that never happen to anyone, happened to me all the time, and I was ready, and triumphed. Then, he said he was proud to know the only man he ever met who had a contingency plan in case an asteroid hit the earth.

         If I cannot pass the language test, I still get to live here until I die, and that is great!

         Still, I’d sure like to be Mexican.
       • yucalandia says:

         April 6, 2016 at 6:48 am

         *grin*
514. RC says:

     April 1, 2016 at 11:52 pm

     What I find a little strange is that if a foreigner marries or is married to a Mexican citizen they start off with Temporary Residency, whereas if a foreign marries or is married to a Permanent Resident, they automatically qualify for Permanent Residency? Is that a little odd to anyone else?

     Reply
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       April 2, 2016 at 4:49 pm

       Yes, I noticed that and it is strange to me. It took me two long years to get Permanent resident, and that was after 4 years of FM-3, because of the major law change. I was beginning to think I was going to drop dead of old age before I get PR.

       Reply
     • markemmer says:

       April 3, 2016 at 8:23 pm

       RC & Bruce, do you have a citation in the lineamientos for saying that a foreigner married to a Residente Permanente can get Permanente status immediately? I’ve never seen that. What I read in the new 2014 lineamientos that were issued for consulates and in the older 2012 lineamientos that apply at INM in-country is that marriage to a Residente Permanente is treated exactly like marriage to a Mexican national (two year waiting period as Residente Temporal). The only difference is not having to show a Mexican marriage certificate, just the one from the country where the marriage took place.

       Consular rules are at http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5363603&fecha=10/10/2014 . Trámite 5, requisito IV.e.4 lays out getting Residente Temporal based on marriage to Residente Permanente. There is no equivalent section in Trámite 7 for a spouse obtaining Residente Permanente. Sections IV.b.2 or 3 apply to children or parents of the Residente Permanente, or the children of the spouse of a Residente Permanente. I don’t see any of the “Si” clauses applying to the spouse directly.

       The in-country INM rules are at http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5276967&fecha=08/11/2012 . Artículo 38, requisito 5.g says that the spouse of a Residente Permanente gets Residente Permanente after being Residente Temporal for two years. None of the other requisito 5 clauses apply to a spouse.

       Where is this instant spousal Residente Permanente you mention? It makes no sense to me, since we’ve always known that husband and wife applying for Residente Permanente have to financially qualify independently. If it was otherwise, one could qualify, and then as soon as the canje was completed, the other could immediately skate in without having to show financial capability.

       The no waiting period makes sense for children and parents, but the two-year waiting period for spouses is done (in my opinion) to prevent immigration fraud based upon marriages of convenience (or for hire).

       — Mark

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         April 5, 2016 at 9:24 am

         The only place anyone mentioned no waiting period when married to a PR person was a posting above. I know nothing about it other than that. I do know I had to wait two years, after already waiting 4 years as an FM-3 to no gain.

         There was a man a while back who was divorced, I think, not clear in my mind right now, and his -ex went to great pains to keep him from residency, It alienated the INM staff and they gave him his residency immediately.

         What you say makes sense. I knew nothing about it except what someone just posted. If I made it sound like I knew something, it was carelessness on my part.
515. marcie cavanagh says:

     April 3, 2016 at 7:24 pm

     Hi Steve,
     I am sending Aduana notification that I have a new TIP and would like it to be tied to my new Residente Temporal. Can you give me the address for Aduana?
     Also is it prudent to notify them BEFORE INM gives me any notification before being approved or should I wait till I get my approval? I am in a time constraint and want to make sure I have everything in order.
     Tomorrow I go to the INM office after getting a caneja at the Mexican consulate in Phoenix Arizona. Can you tell me what to do next with Aduana?
     Thanks,
     Marcie

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 5, 2016 at 7:15 am

       Hi Marcie,
       That information is in our main article on Importing/Using Foreign Cars in Mexico:

       Importing & Driving a Car in Mexico

       Administración General de Aduanas
       Administración Central de Operación Aduanera
       Administración de Operación Aduanera “3”
       Av. Hidalgo No. 77, Módulo IV, 1° piso, Del. Cuauhtémoc
       Col. Guerrero, C.P. 06300, México D.F.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
516. marcie cavanagh says:

     April 7, 2016 at 9:26 am

     Thank you Steve,
     Another question, when I passed through the border and Banjercito removed my TIP sticker they gave me a phone number to follow up on my retorno seguro. I have tried that number constantly and only get a busy signal. Any suggestions on how I can follow up on this return?
     Thanks again Steve for all the valuable information.
     Marcie

     Reply
517. Rahul says:

     April 11, 2016 at 3:36 am

     Hello ,
     I’m a 28 year old from New Delhi, India i met a Mexican girl online last year, we have decided to get married but first we have to meet. so i want to apply for mexico tourist visa.

     I am self-employed animation and game designer since 2011 so I will be mentioning my occupation as ‘self-employed’ for tourist visa . I have a registered company but i was not getting more projects and i haven’t earned more so i just work under, my clients as a freelancer and they pay me on a project-by-project basis i dont use my company records for my work . currently i dont have any Personal income tax slip . Would it help if I get a letter from one or more of my clients mentioning that they have commissioned me regularly for my services?

     So what should I do to apply for visa if I don’t have income tax return slip for a year or more ? or first i need to file my income tax return? Please help.
     Regards,
     Rahul

     Reply
518. Rc says:

     April 11, 2016 at 9:30 am

     I’m assuming you do not have a US visa? If you hold a valid US visa you don’t need a visa to Mexico for tourism.

     This is a tough one since most of us on here deal from Canada/USA…? I would say call the Mexican embassy/consulate in India and ask them directly what is required for a tourist visa… They “should” know. If you can show money in savings account that meet the limits you don’t need to worry about income I don’t think. But call the consulate is your best bet since they are the ones who are going to do your visa.

     We are around the same age, probably the few in our age group. If you make it send me an email!

     Reply
519. Rahul says:

     April 11, 2016 at 11:40 am

     Hello, thank you for your reply. yes i dont hold a valid USA visa. i have money in my savings account and i think that would be sufficient . but i just need to find out about income tax return whether they will need one or three year income tax return proof .but as per my search i found it is one year http://embamex.sre.gob.mx/india/index.php/en/consular-section/visas
     But anyway thank you for your suggestion i should call embassy directly to know about visa requirement .

     Reply
520. Tori Brown says:

     May 3, 2016 at 1:08 pm

     Hello! I read so much online and all the comments to make sure my question(s) have not been answered. My story is that I started on a FM3, when the laws changed, I got the Temporary Resident card (permission to work). I have held a job since arriving in 2010. In 2014, on my last year before Permanant Residency, IMN fudged up dates after the winder break and I (and others) was under 24 late submitting my renewal. Long and sad story short I had to start allllll the way back to day 1… 4 more years of Temp Res. 😦 I am into my 2nd renewal and can qualify for Perm Res in 2018, BUT the person I I just married has Perm Residency and we are looking to move out of Mexico, but I MUST have Prem Residency first. So, my question is, when you get married to a National, or a RP card holder, and I notify Immigration, what are the restrictions of a Temp Res holder like I am now (for work), and a Temp card holder (vínculo familiar)? Do I have to maintain a job for the 2 years leading up to me qualifying for Perm Residency? Like I mentioned, we are looking to leave Mexico, preferably before the 2 years I have left and I can not find any guidelines/restrictions on a Temp Residency vínculo familiar.

     I sure hope all that made sense. It does in my head. Thank you so much in advance for your help.
     Tori

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 4, 2016 at 9:00 am

       Hi Tori,
       First, You wrote:
       “IMN fudged up dates after the winder break and I (and others) was under 24 late submitting my renewal. Long and sad story short I had to start allllll the way back to day 1… 4 more years of Temp Res. ”

       That has actually been the law since 2008 … where the govt. changed the rules to only allow 4 years maximum on any Temporary visa … and then the applicant/foreigner had to apply for a new one.

       So, regardless, everyone completing 4 years on a Temporary visa (FM3, FM2, Inmigrante, No Inmigrante, or Residente Temporal) has had to surrender the old one, and apply to get a new Temporary Resident visa … every 4 years.

       If you had sufficient income… or had sufficient savings, etc… and qualified as being personally fiscally solvent… then you can qualify for Residente Permanente any time… (as described above).

       If you choose the Vinculo Familiar route, then as the spouse of an RP… you qualify for their same RP status…

       You should be able to do this on your own… (without an attorney) by taking the Vinculo Familiar route. Take the Vinculo Familiar route. *grin*

       Sorry that you seem to have gotten very poor advice in the past, to not have known the law or the rules, and to have gotten swept into a corner (unnecessarily) in the past. … *sigh*

       but it can be all resolved nicely & quickly now that you are married to an RP … as long as the marriage was registered with your State’s Registro Civil office.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Once you have Residente Permanente, there are no issues of needing to maintain a job … and you can leave Mexico whenever it works for you.

       Reply
521. Tori Brown says:

     May 4, 2016 at 11:45 am

     Hello.. I am not arguing the law about losing my time earned, just wanted to give the specifics since the moment I arrived in 2010. I will never have enough income to have any Residency based on a savings. So I have to work, and I don’t mind it as I love my job. I am not married, but have been in a relationship with someone who has a RP and we are talking about marriage. We want to leave Mexico sooner than later, and my actual question I am looking to have answered is, if we get married, and I change my details with Immigration from single to married to someone with Prem Residency, what does the following 2 years as a Vinculo Familiar on a Temp Residency differ than the one I have now? What are the benefits of those two years…do I have to maintain a job under Vinculo Familiar Temp Residency? Are their restrictions on leaving Mexico for an extended period of time? OR should I just hold out until March 2018 when I am up for Prem Residency under my own accord (not get married).

     Thank you for taking the time to help me. It’s greatly appreciated
     Tori

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 4, 2016 at 12:35 pm

       Oh, I misread the earlier email, as I thought you had already gotten married.

       Yes, married to an RP, registered at the State Registro Civil office … qualifies you immediately for RP.

       Alternately, you could hire a solid immigration attorney, who knows your INM office well, and get them to have the Delegado approve your past years as a temporary resident … immediately qualifying you now … as the INM local Delegado’s and supervisors have the discetion & latitude to accept those past completed years…

       Read the sections in the article above about Vinculo Familiar (no job needed, etc)

       Once you are an RP or RT, no restrictions on being outside of Mexico, etc.

       All the best,
       steve

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 5, 2016 at 7:04 am

       Hi Tori,
       If you can get INM to accept your prior RT years, then you could get Permanente immediately through Vinculo Familiar.

       Vinculo Familiar also wipes out the need to qualify financially … and no employment needed (though the spouse may have to submit a letter promising to be fiscally responsible for you)…

       Again, no restrictions on leaving Mexico… that’s a US CIS thing.

       steve

       Reply
522. markemmer says:

     May 4, 2016 at 1:03 pm

     Uhhh, Steve, didn’t we just have this discussion with Bruce? See my comment above from April 3, 2016 at 8:23 pm. Artículo 38, requisito 5.g of the lineamientos says that the spouse of a Residente Permanente can apply for Residente Permanente after two years of marriage. I didn’t state it properly in my early post, where I said after two years of Residente Temporal, which Tori already has. But the language in 5.g is “… su cónyuge o concubina o concubinario, en el que señalen su domicilio conyugal y la subsistencia de dicho vínculo durante los dos años anteriores a la solicitud;” Hard to see how marriage now does anything for Tori before 2018, at which time she would have four years anyway and could get RP on that alone. Either way she’s going to be RT for the next two years, and might as well keep going with her present RT.
     Saludos, Mark

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 5, 2016 at 7:02 am

       It keeps her from having to qualify financially…

       and… We have had our INM office award Residente Permanente to family members (even US grandparents) who had already completed 2 prior years of temporary residency …

       but, I’ve been down with stomach crud + Merida has literally won the crown for hottest city on the planet these past days … certainly leaving me with misunderstanding some people’s problems (esp when the narratives are long & winding).

       THANKS!
       steve

       Reply
523. Tori Brown says:

     May 5, 2016 at 9:35 am

     I wish Cancun was as forgiving. My Immigration Lawyer (since I work, the paper work is a bit much to handle on my own) is a past Delgado of the office here and things are run horrifically. They are such P.O.S’s that I none of my past years qualify me. In 2018, I can qualify for RP either by my own accord of 4 years of RT with permission to work, OR based off two years of the RT Vinculo Familiar (2016-2018). We are still looking to get married this year, but I can’t find anywhere what the stipulations/restrictions of a RT Vinculo Familiar are, to see if it benefits me any to record this marriage with Immigration and change my status. We want to get the the US before 2018 if possible, and was hoping that with a RT Vinculo Familiar, I wouldn’t have to show proof of job in Mexico or my own financial stability. Not even the INM website gives these details that I have found. I could ask the lawyer, but I hate paying if there are people willing to kindly help me out with answers 🙂

     Again, thanks a million.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 5, 2016 at 11:29 am

       Hi Tori,
       Superb superb insights…

       Individual INM offices have so much latitude & discretion, especially like the special Cancun office in the special state of Q.Roo.

       So, even when the law has said that I (and others across Mexico) were NOT required to show financial proofs… some INM offices have required them => local discretion.

       BEST OF LUCK,
       steve

       (and paying the lawyer/former-Delegado may be your best route?? especially if that’s the only way to a clean low-cost resolution … ???)

       Reply
     • Rc says:

       May 5, 2016 at 11:32 am

       What exactly is your question? I have experience with Cancun. It is a fiasco of an office… If you are married to a Mexican citizen you qualify for RT. After two years you can convert to RP… Make sure all your stuff is correct, they are real sticklers in there. I had to go 3 times just to get things started. My wife was appalled with the office. In the end it worked out though… They hooked me up, but I was asked for solvency…

       Reply
       • Tori Brown says:

         May 6, 2016 at 1:45 pm

         My question is about what does the RT through marriage benefit you (me) over me just staying on my current RT until I quality for RP in March 2018. If in the two years I have to stay on RT after notifying INM of said marriage (has not happened yet); could I quit my job right away and not have to show any proof of income by job/savings and be safe in the eyes of INM and I would still get RP when the 2 years is up? Do I have to renew the Vinculo Familiar RT after the first year? or is it a 2 year card?

         Just an Example: In June we get married, we go to INM in July with marriage Certificate, his RP card and my current RT card and notify them of the change and they process me as a Vinculo Familiar RT for the next two years. I quit my job here in Cancun and we move to the US by October. Would this be allowed? Do I have to prove finances or would my husband have to show he can support me?

         I really wish the Mexican Immigration website was as informative as the US one.

         Thanks you all again for your great help.
         Tori
524. Rc says:

     May 6, 2016 at 2:36 pm

     The only benefit that I know of would be that after two years you qualify for RP and can apply for citizenship based on marriage to a Mexican. I got the RT for two years but from what I found out, I messed up, paid for two years first, got yelled at by my wife, the origiNal officer said whatever and wait and see what happens. The lawyer told me she has never seen them give 2 years before, so who knows. I was asked for solvency though… I think overall the benefit would be not waiting an extra 1 year. Isn’t naturalization after 5 years? Or 2 if you have a Mexican spouse or child? I don’t know enough to recommend one over the other but in my personal opinion I would rather be on the family unity visa since it would be harder for them to take it from you, though by no means does it mean you are safe or aren’t at the whims of the officer!

     Reply
525. Randy (Dim) says:

     May 13, 2016 at 4:37 pm

     Hi there, great site by the way with lot’s of awesome information.

     I have a quick question, had filed my paperwork for change from temporary to permanent a little while ago and now on the INM site on the Internet with the “pieza numero and contrasegna” it says: “se emitio oficio” and then it says”registre los datos para la expedicion de su documento migratorio”!
     Question, does that mean that I got accepted and I have to make an appointment for fingerprinting in order for them to issue my residence card?

     Would be great if you could let me know. It was the first time that I handed in my paperwork myself.

     Thanks so much & all the best

     Dim

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 13, 2016 at 10:09 pm

       Hi Randy,
       They have accepted your application, and they are registering/entering your data into their systems.

       It is not yet a notice to return to the INM office,
       steve

       Reply
526. Roger says:

     May 14, 2016 at 7:48 am

     it says: “official letter issued” And then it says “record data for the issuance of immigration document”! This is the notice INM sends out for you that they have sent you an official letter. Check your email. Also there should be a link to update your background information. Either way you need to complete those steps and return to INM. To either confirm or continue in the process.

     Reply
527. Dean says:

     May 20, 2016 at 12:57 pm

     Hi Steve –

     I hope you know how appreciated you are. You’re invaluable to so many. Many thanks in advance.

     I am still employed full time and I started collecting Social Security this month, May 2016. I have movers scheduled to load household goods on October 15th and I plan to fly (move) to Mexico the 1st of November. I need to apply for my visa temporal in September 2016 to insure I have it and am able to give a copy to the moving company. I will be retiring Nov. 1st, 2016 (the same date I plan to go to Mexico) and will receive my last paycheck two weeks after I retire, and start collecting my pension in December 2016. My question is – given I will only have collected four months of Social Security when I apply for my visa and my bank statements won’t yet reflect my pension, will the consulate accept my bank statements that reflect my salary and just four months social security in lieu of retirement income? I’m doubtful I could get a bank letter attesting to my retirement income given I’d not yet be receiving it. I’m confused as to the order of things re proving retirement income, yet do not want/plan to remain in the U.S. any time once retired. In fact as long as I remain in the U.S. I would need to keep working.

     Thank you so much for any light you can shed on this process.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 20, 2016 at 4:27 pm

       Hi Dean,
       Mark has described things pretty well … alluding to the INM law’s and SRE law’s section headers that include direct references to “pension and retirement” income.

       That allusion is interpreted by SOME Consulates to mean that they should ONLY include ‘pension’ or ‘retirement’ income & savings…

       Other (MOST) Consulates simply look at either savings or income (deposits).

       A few Consulates set the bar really high, and require the applicants to get an official letter from the US Social Security administration certifying the future monthly deposits…

       So… IT ALL COMES DOWN TO WHICH CONSULATE you choose to apply at… Boston & San Fran & the Embassy in Washington DC used to have the WORST reputations for setting the highest standards/requirements…

       Chicago, Portland, Phoenix, Laredo, and San Antonio had reputations for setting the lowest (most lenient) standards…

       Note than many Consulates do NOT answer questions in advance of coming to the Consulate… and most (if not all) Mexican Consulates in the USA are requiring people to make appointments before coming…

       *sigh*
       steve

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 20, 2016 at 4:33 pm

       As a result… some people plan to use the Center of Mexico driving route (Nuevo Laredo – south to Queretaro etc) … and then get their Residente approval at the San Antonio or Laredo Consulates as they drive to exit Texas to enter Mexico…

       Note that if you use a moving company… it means you MUST get your Residency visa first to be able to pay no duties (using an official Consulate issued Menaje de Casa list), which means a trip to Mexico first to complete the INM process at your local INM office… then go back and get the official Menaje de Casa from your local Consulate… and then move your DUTY FREE household personal goods by professional movers…

       This is why many people just move themselves, towing a trailer … where most Americans & Canadians with only personal household goods are just waved through at the border… when using that 30 day special transit visa issued by the Consulate… (and NO formal official Menaje de Casa list… just your own personally created Menaje de Casa STYLE list)… See our article on Customs / Aduana for details.

       Best of Luck,
       steve

       Reply
       • Kristi Draper says:

         May 20, 2016 at 10:58 pm

         Steve said: “Note that if you use a moving company… it means you MUST get your Residency visa first to be able to pay no duties (using an official Consulate issued Menaje de Casa list), which means a trip to Mexico first to complete the INM process at your local INM office… then go back and get the official Menaje de Casa from your local Consulate… and then move your DUTY FREE household personal goods by professional movers…”
         This was not my experience 2 yrs ago when I moved to Mexico permanently. My husband and I went straight to Residente Permanente, getting the RP (1st part) stickers in our passports from the Mexican consulate in Orlando FL. We then hired AtlasMex to move our household goods from the States to Mexico. No problem getting the goods across the border duty-free because we had the RP stickers in our passports. We didn’t get our RP green cards until after we got to our home in Mexico. The important thing is: We did not need our RP cards to ship a moving truck full of household goods duty-free to Mexico.
         Thanks for all you do, Steve!
       • yucalandia says:

         May 21, 2016 at 6:33 am

         VERY COOL….

         The Mexican government has their official rules, and official ways the rules say to do things… (1. get Residency visa card… 2. return to the USA and get a Consulate to approve your Menaje de Casa list. etc etc) … AND THEN there’s how it works in real life…

         It’s great that AtlasMex found a way to do it… without you having your Residency visas!

         They may have a *special relationship* with the Aduana agents at one crossing… *grin*

         ~ That *special relationship* may include *special charges* that they pay to Aduana, charges that are already factored-in with what they bill you.

         Can you write back here, and report the contact information for AtlasMex ?

         GLAD that it worked out for you,
         steve
528. markemmer says:

     May 20, 2016 at 1:36 pm

     I’ll leave it to Steve for a definitive comment, but as I read the law, there’s no requirement for pension income or that you must be retired to qualify for Residente Temporal. For that, all you need is either 12 months of bank or investment balances of about $21,000 or six months of employment OR pension income of about $1,250/month.

     The heading that precedes the financial solvency section (by assets or monthly income) specifying that one must be a pensionado or jubleado only appears in the Residente Permanente requirements section, not in the Residente Temporal section of the regulations.

     Compare the language in Requisto IV(a)1&2 in Tramite 5 for Temporal with Tramite 7 for Permanente at http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5363603&fecha=10%2F10%2F2014. Notice how they slipped in the “Jubilados o pensionados” heading in Tramite 7 that’s absent in Tramite 5?

     There’s no reason for you to wait until September to apply. You have six months to enter the country after being issued the Residente Temporal, so you could do it right now based on salary or assets and still be in the six-month window on November 1.

     — Mark

     Reply
529. Dean says:

     May 21, 2016 at 5:15 am

     Wow. Such great information. Thanks to all. I will be applying at the Seattle Consulate. Hmmmm…my mover (who’s based in Mexico) has done this for 26 years. He visited my home when nearby on another move to assess what I have to be moved, and has checked in several times since then. He knows my timeline and retirement date/arrival in Mexico date and has never said anything about having to go to Mexico once first re my visa. He’s only said he’ll need a copy of my passport and a copy of my visa, and the movers take care of doing the Menaje de Casa as they pack. I will relay your information, Steve, and see what he says. We won’t be able to stay on course if I have to go to Mexico first – nor can I retire when planned if that’s the case. I’d have to take a vacation to get the visa rolling, come back and plan to move in the spring and would be in the same situation as I’d have to keep working until then. Oy vey.

     I’ve read several years worth of Q&A’s here (a wealth of information!) and debated moving myself. In the end I decided for me there would be much, much less stress to pay to have things moved.

     Re the retirement/pension income vs. just showing income (salary) – as I said earlier that’s a Catch-22 as I can’t retire until I can leave as I can’t afford to stay once I’m retired and would have to give up my apartment the same day I retired. Huh.

     Mark I read that the same way you did however don’t trust it completely given how different Consulates, as Steve says, want different things. Yes I have a six month window so it may be prudent to start sooner rather than later. It’s going to be an all day (and overnight if my appointment should be in the afternoon) ordeal traveling to the Consulate so back-and-forth trips will be somewhat difficult.

     Okay let me ask you this – I’m a Washington resident – but Portland is just two hours down the road. If I go to the Seattle Consulate and they require pension income (that’ll leave me out of moving indefinitely!) would I be able to go try at the Consulate in Portland (though I’m not an Oregon resident)?

     Still confused, and still (always) very grateful for everyone’s help!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 21, 2016 at 6:28 am

       Your plan seems very good.

       Your mover can move your stuff… but you pay duties on the goods using a professional mover, unless he takes them in as his personal items…

       … or unless you have your Residency card in hand, and go back to a Consulate with it to get your Menaje de Casa list approved. ??

       As we have heard nothing/read nothing about the Seattle Consulate, can you please come back and report their pecadillos (their requirements) ?

       Safe Travels.
       steve

       Reply
       • Dean says:

         May 21, 2016 at 7:41 am

         Steve – Yes – I’ll let you know how it all plays out. Too, my sister and brother-in-law are moving (with the same moving company) from Kansas City so I will let you know the particulars there as well. Best case scenario we’ll all three go around the same time, early winter (November 2016).

         I’ll keep you posted as well on what the movers need re border crossing, Duty Free, etc.

         Saludos!
       • Dean says:

         May 28, 2016 at 8:48 am

         Hi Steve –

         Here with a bit of an update: This information is from Strom-White Movers in Ajijic, who are well respected and have been in business a number of years. A friend who is moving recently spoke with one of the owners directly and learned the following:

         “We only need what the Mexican Consulate issues you. Your visa does not need to be finalized in Mexico before we can ship your goods. They will issue a page in your passport and that is what we use to cross your household goods. Once you arrive in Mexico you have 30 days to get the card finalized. If you are moving with a RT visa as long as that visa is current you are allowed to move goods in (though sometimes you read that you must move them within six months). With a RP visa you do have to move them in within six months and may only move household goods across one time.“

         So one does not need to travel to Mexico to get the ball rolling on a RT or RP visa, or before they move and/or move their household goods duty free. The Mexican Consulate in the U.S. issues what is needed. If applying for a RT you do not need a Menaje de Casa approved by the U.S. Mexican Consulate. Your moving co. needs one, but it is not necessary to have it for/take it to the consulate for approval. However if you are applying for a RP you DO need to have the Mexican Consulate approve your Menaje de Casa. You will see under the requirements on the websites that a Menaje de Casa is listed under RP and is not under RT applications.

         Also, I have information from sources who are applying for visas that both the Mexican Consulate in Seattle as well as the one in Kansas City have invited them to email the consulate all of the required documents and they will pre approve that everything is complete and ready to go. They will then make an appointment for you to visit the Consulate and complete the first step in getting your visa. Not sure I’d be okay with emailing all of that personal banking, etc. information unless the email was encrypted. However wanted folks to know it may be an option with their consulate – just email (the address on their website) and ask.

         Will share more as I continue the process.
     • goatwrangler says:

       May 21, 2016 at 6:46 am

       We were able to receive services from the Mass. Consulate as former Maine residents.

       http://www.ranchosolymar.com

       >

       Reply
530. Dean says:

     May 21, 2016 at 8:20 am

     Steve one more request if I may – can you link/lead me to the sample letter (in English and Spanish) necessary for the Consulate re one seeking permission to immigrate and why (wish to retire there)? I know I’ve seen it – thought here on your site, have also searched Rolly Brook’s, but of course now that I need it I can’t lay my hands on it.

     Again, mil gracias!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 22, 2016 at 6:45 am

       Hi Dean,

       ==============

       Date

       Mexican Consulate in ______________
       (enter the city name, state, country… e.g. Chicago, IL, USA )
       Address of the Consulate

       Asunto: Solicitud de Visa de Residencia

       Distinguido Consulado,
       Por medio de la presente, yo, NAME OF APPLICANT as SHOWN on PASSPORT, solicito para aplicando para una visa de … (insert either: Residente Temporal … or Residente Permamente ). Subsisten las mismas condiciónes que cuando me fue otorgado mi documento migratorio. Adjunto copias de los documentos solicitados para este trámite. Le agradezco por anticipado la atención prestada a la presente solicitud.

       Bajo protesta de decir verdad.

       Atentamente,

       APPLICANT SIGNATURE – sign here

       Type/enter APPLICANT NAME

       APPLICANT’S ADDRESS

       Tel. domicilio (ENTER HOME PHONE)
       Cel. (ENTER CELL PHONE)

       ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
531. Dean says:

     May 22, 2016 at 7:14 pm

     You, sir, are beyond awesome.

     I appreciate you beyond measure.

     Reply
532. markemmer says:

     May 28, 2016 at 10:34 am

     Dean, your information matches our experience in 2011. We moved with Golden Bear Movers (Mario Ortiz) from San Miguel de Allende (though we were not moving to SMdA). He used L&L Freight Forwarders in Laredo as his custom broker to accompany the load across the border. We obtained our menaje de casa solely with the visa (then called No Inmigrante, the predecessor of RT) affixed to our passport. We did not have to first enter the country to obtain the green card.

     We were very diligent in completing a spreadsheet of boxes and unboxed items, their weights and contents which we sent to Mario so he could estimate weight and volume and had the list of contents for the menaje de casa. For electronics, we followed the rules and listed the make, model and serial number when it was available on a separate spreadsheet page.

     Per the law, all items must be six months or older. Brand new items may cause your broker heartburn.

     Good luck with the move. Living in Mexico is worth the hassles.

     Mark

     Reply
533. Dean says:

     May 28, 2016 at 10:52 am

     Hola Mark –

     I will be using Golden Bear as well. I’m going to have Mario’s crew pack my goods and they create the menaje de casa. It’s not inexpensive although my motto is we’re lucky when all something costs is money. For me it is worth the cost to have such a big piece taken care of by professionals with many years of experience. I have only heard good things about Mario Ortiz as a person and businessman and Golden Bear as a company. The Ortiz family is very well respected and has established a well-deserved very good reputation. Given I’m moving to San Miguel and all I’ve heard (some from friends) I would not consider anyone else to move me.

     Reply
534. Aditya says:

     May 31, 2016 at 11:33 am

     Hi Team ,
     I switched to a new organization and it has been 4 months in my new organization.They asked me to initiate business visa for Mexico.The consulate told me that i am not eligible for Visa since i have not completed one year in my organization but there is one workaround if i submit my organization’s(mexico) bank statement for past 12 months which is very unlikely that my organization will provide given that its confidentiality.Therefore , i need some assistance in this case.

     Reply
535. Nancy Rigg says:

     June 7, 2016 at 12:29 pm

     Hi Guys, my TR id up for renewal in August. This will be my first time renewing, can you please give me a high level overview of the process, is it the same as the original application? What documents do I need to take with me? Do i need financial statements again? I would also like to get a 3 year card is this possible?
     Thanks so much
     Nancy

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       June 7, 2016 at 5:11 pm

       Hi Nancy,
       Yes, yes, yes. Same, same, yes, 3 years is possible if they approve.
       steve

       Reply

536. Pingback: INM 2016 Visa Fees for Mexico | Surviving Yucatan

537. Sneh Mani Tripathi says:

     June 30, 2016 at 7:32 pm

     Hi,

     Can I come to Mexico from USA with 30 day one time visa (Temporary Resident) and my wife and child can come with valid dependent L2 US visa. I also have valid L1 US visa.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 1, 2016 at 5:46 am

       Sneh,
       Contact a Mexican Consulate there in the USA – or back in your home country.
       Since you are not Canadian, British, US, or German, we don’t know the details of your country’s immigration treaties/agreements with Mexico.

       Sidelight: Mexican law had said that foreigners with visas to the USA have permission to use the Mexican Consulates in the USA to apply for Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente visas (without having to return to the Mexican Consulate in their home country).

       Still, even that caveat does not over-rule the details of theimmigration treaty between your home country & Mexico.

       Go to a Mexican Consulate, and inquire about the requirements.

       Re your wife & child: Ask the Consulate about whether you can get a Residente Temporal visa, with your wife and child entering Mexico on 180 day visitors visas. Ask about the Vinculo Familiar program (read for details above). Under Vinculo Familiar, you would start your application process at a Mexican Consulate, then, all 3 of you would enter Mexico, for you to complete your Residente Temporal visa process (with them on Visitante visas).

       Once you have your RT visa, then your wife & child qualify to apply for their own RT visas as your family members.

       Happy Trails,
       stevve

       Reply
     • therumjournal says:

       July 1, 2016 at 7:53 am

       If you have a valid passport and valid USA visa you do not need a visa to enter Mexico as a tourist. With an L1/L2 in the US that would qualify to go to Mexico without a visa. It says on their website SRE.gob or just google it. I’m on my phone and can’t get the link but it is there.

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         July 1, 2016 at 4:37 pm

         Hi guy,
         Even with an L1 or L2 visa, he would have to get a visitors visa to travel in Mexico, unless they only stayed within 25 km of the border or just in the free zones like Baja.

         Also note that from his name, and his limited English skills, he may be Pakistani, Indian, or Afghani. Citizens from countries without immigration treaties may have restrictions for entering Mexico.

         He specifically mentions trying to enter on as a Tenporary Resident (Residente Temporal) visa… which means his L2 would not be enough. ??

         Happy Trails,
         steve
       • Ryan Collins says:

         July 1, 2016 at 4:51 pm

         Well depending where he is trying to get temporary residency. By his comment it is a little unclear. A L1/2 is essentially a company transfer visa meaning he “should” be living in the US temporarily for about 1-3 years. It can lead to a US green card.

         If he is just trying to visit Mexico it clearly states on their webpage with a valid visa to the U.S. They can visit Mexico as a tourist.

         Applying for residency in Mexico, different thing completely. If he is trying to do that, I have no idea why he is coming to the USA on an L1 unless his time is coming to an end. The “visa” you talk about is the immigration card. Maybe they do call it a visa, but it’s more of a permit. If he goes further into Mexico he just shows the US visa and should be allowed to enter unless INM says otherwise. Again, residency in Mexico would be totally different for him I’m assuming.

         Ryan Sent from my iPhone

         >
538. Sneh Mani Tripathi says:

     July 2, 2016 at 1:41 pm

     Thanks all for the reply. I am an Indian national. I already visited Mexico on my L1 visa and at the port of entry they gave me a card (no visa) to stay for 180 days as visitor/tourist (not sure about difference). My family is in USA on L2 visa.

     Now I need a temporary resident visa as I have to pay my taxes here but my wages goes to US bank as I am a employee of a US company and working here as a contractor for a Mexican company and duration of project will be more than 180 days.

     As I understand I have to go to a Mexican Consulate in USA and apply for temporary residence visa without work permit (not paid in Mexico) and they will give me a one time visa for 30 days to enter Mexico. Once in Mexico I will have to go to INM office and complete the process (canje). After few days I will get the card with CURP number and that number will be used to get the tax id or something to pay the taxes here.

     Please correct me and also can I bring my family without any visa other than US L2 visa as they are also eligible to enter as tourist/visitor for 180 days.

     One more thing about work permit , do I need to apply for work permit also if yes then when and how?

     Thanks!

     Sneh

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 3, 2016 at 6:06 am

       Your understandings are correct.

       You do NOT apply for a work permit, because there is NO such thing.

       You instead apply for Temporary Residency with permission to work, when you apply at the Consulate …

       Residente Temporal con permiso de trabajo … (it’s a sub-type of Residente Temporal),
       steve

       Reply
539. ismail says:

     July 2, 2016 at 2:13 pm

     i would like to enquire about the possibility of entering Mexico on a tourist visa ,marrying my Mexican partner and changing the tourist visa to either temporary or preeminent residicny ?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 3, 2016 at 6:04 am

       Yes.
       Read the section of the article above on “Vinculo Familiar”,
       steve

       Reply
540. Sneh Mani Tripathi says:

     July 3, 2016 at 10:32 am

     Thanks Steve. I could not find any option in the type of visa section of application form such as Residente Temporal con permiso de trabajo. On the form It is just Residente Temporal. Is it to be applied during the change of status at INM, Mexico City or once the TR card is printed then It can be applied?

     Do I need to go to a local immigration office and get something like CURP or Nue or any other form, documents before going to Mexican consulate in US?

     Sneh

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 4, 2016 at 7:08 am

       You tell the Consulate that you want permission to work, as a part of applying for Residency.

       INM issues you the CURP when they approve your application in Mexico.

       INM issues you the NUE when you apply in Mexico..
       steve

       Reply
541. Sneh Mani Tripathi says:

     July 3, 2016 at 10:51 am

     Do I need to select Residencia Temporal or Visitante sin permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas in the visa form while applying at consulate outside Mexico?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 4, 2016 at 7:06 am

       Are you planning to work while in Mexico?

       If so, then NO to Visitante sine permiso para realizar axtividades remuneradas.

       Are your planning on applying for residency?
       If so, then NO to Visitante.

       steve

       Reply
542. Sneh Mani Tripathi says:

     July 4, 2016 at 12:22 pm

     Thank you. can someone please confirm the INM office, Mexico City address and working hours for visa?

     Instituto Nacional de Migración
     Address: Calle Homero 1832, Miguel Hidalgo, Polanco, 11550 Ciudad de México, D.F., Mexico

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 4, 2016 at 7:11 pm

       Table of Contents List of INM offices & Hours
       http://www.inm.gob.mx/gobmx/word/index.php/horarios-y-oficinas/

       Ciudad de México
       Delegado Federal
       Victor Manuel Vargas Ramírez
       (55) 5387-2400
       informesdf@inami.gob.mx
       Av. Ejército Nacional 862, Col. Los Morales Sección Palmas, Delegación Miguel Hidalgo, C.P. 11540, México Ciudad de México.
       Horario de Atención al Público: Lunes a Viernes de 09:00 a 13:00 hrs.
       http://www.inm.gob.mx/gobmx/word/index.php/cdmx/

       For Estado de Mexico:
       http://www.inm.gob.mx/gobmx/word/index.php/estado-de-mexico/

       Happy Trails, steve

       Reply
543. Sneh Mani Tripathi says:

     July 5, 2016 at 7:58 am

     Thanks a lot so I can not go to the following address?

     Instituto Nacional de Migración
     Address: Calle Homero 1832, Miguel Hidalgo, Polanco, 11550 Ciudad de México, D.F., Mexico

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 5, 2016 at 12:03 pm

       ?? We don’t know ??

       Reply
544. Sneh Mani Tripathi says:

     July 6, 2016 at 8:44 am

     All rights. How much time it takes there at INM Office to complete the canje of visa status including online application form filling, documentation, fee payment at bank, photo, fingerprint etc Is it going to take one working day or two?

     I know that card print will take 1- 2 weeks after the above process completed(approved).

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 7, 2016 at 4:50 pm

       2 weeks to 4 weeks is typical.

       Reply
545. KLM says:

     July 12, 2016 at 5:03 pm

     Looking for some advice / help / magic…
     I have been trying to get my wife’s resident card thru the ‘Vinculo Familiar’ at INM. Have everything that they wanted; translated, apostatized, etc. But now they want my wife to prove that she is the same person that she was when we got married 7 years ago, because her last name on our marriage certificate is different than her last name now. We have provided INM with her old passport and military ID card that both have her old last name. Plus we provided the current same ID’s with her married name now. We even went to see a local judge in our village who knew her before and after we were married and he drew up a document stating that fact.
     Even the local U.S. consulate can’t help convince these people that my wife is the same person now as then.
     Today they said that we could hire a lawyer, make an appointment with another judge, gather witnesses, wait 2-3 months, just to get another almost identical copy of what our local judge wrote for her. Then, as most things seem to go in Mexico, they will probably change the rules again. Even our lawyer we asked about this seemed surprised about all this. But then we were not using a lawyer, since going thru all the INM procedures really isn’t that hard or confusing… until now. I had gotten my RT then RP doing everything myself. Never any problem. (And all without paying a lawyer.)

     Is there anyone else who has had to go thru this? Any advice?

     We are almost to the point of just flying back to the states and go to the consulate just so she can get a 30 day RP visa (and just do the RP routine) and say the hell with the Vinculo Familiar red tape. After all, the Vinculo Familiar will only issue a RT for 2 years before issuing a RP. It’s just that we do not want to have to go NOB just to get that consulate stamp, plus the added cost of plane tickets and etc.
     Nowhere that I can find in or on the INM website anything about this issue.

     Comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

     Reply
     • sdibaja says:

       July 12, 2016 at 5:47 pm

       you say “because her last name on our marriage certificate is different than her last name now.”
       the marriage certificate did not incorporate the name change? (ours from California has that option)
       in what manner was her last name changed? that is your key document

       (I have no personal experience with this)

       Reply
       • KLM says:

         July 14, 2016 at 10:36 am

         Arizona did not give us an option or at least we were not aware of it.

         Currently have our lawyer working on it. Hopefully she can pull off some magic…? Anyway we are already looking for flights to the states to visit the consulate and just go straight to RP for my wife. It will probably turn out to be cheaper in the long run and without a doubt faster.
         Now unless they change the rules again….!!??!!

         I guess I expected it to go as easy as my RP went and I did not use a lawyer. I just used the info on this site which turned out to be exactly on the money.

         On another note… I have a neighbor who is RP. He’s been here for years. Earlier this week he went to INM to get a Mexican passport.
         He said that it is possible for RP’s to obtain one. I saw him at the INM office applying and they told him to return in a couple of weeks.
         I always thought that you had to be a citizen to get one Anybody know anything about that??

         Thanks for listening to my rattling on!
         Kirk
       • Panamarayan says:

         July 14, 2016 at 11:07 am

         If anyone gets some info on this I would really like to know about it!

         RC

         >
       • yucalandia says:

         July 14, 2016 at 12:54 pm

         Hi Kirk,
         Wow, it’s hard to imagine how SRE could legally justify giving a passport through INM (SEGOB) processes => it would be not-legal, and it would expect one govt. agency (like Scotland Yard) to do the key responsibility of a completely different agency (Foreign Services ministry).

         In a US metaphor: That would be like going to the US Customs & Border Patrol (Homeland Security), to ask them to issue you a passport… because US passports are issued only by Secretary of State…

         This would be like going the the IRS to ask to open a personal checking account … or applying with the IRS to issue you a business license or sales tax license…

         ???
         steve
       • Panamarayan says:

         July 14, 2016 at 1:07 pm

         Well could this be like a “travel document”? Not a passport, and annotated as such. I know Panama does this, Brazil (but for very specific cases, like refugees and Panama for special investors). US DHS does issue a travel document to refugees that are good for a year or two. I find it hard pressed that Mexico would, but if they do, I want to know!

         Ryan Sent from my iPhone

         >
     • KLM says:

       July 25, 2016 at 8:27 am

       Update…

       We booked tickets back to the U.S.
       The whole stupid process of proving my wife’s name… hassle, lawyers, pesos, time, etc., is just not worth it. It is almost a break-even $-wise to fly back to the consulate in San Diego and get her the RP consulate stamp.
       Hoping to get this done and completed in 1 visit like I did in Phoenix (whole process took less than 2 hours).

       Anybody deal with the San Diego consulate? Time it took?

       Maybe someday the local INM office will enter the 21st century!

       Thanks for any comments.
       Kirk

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         July 25, 2016 at 12:07 pm

         Hi KLM,
         Some people have reported that the San Diego Mexican Consulate office has required some people to be retired… with either:
         – only pension income (including Social Security) (not work/salary deposits) to qualify for monthly-deposit requirements
         or
         – retirement savings only as the avg monthly balance.

         That report was roughly a year ago (similar to the San Fran Consulate), while Phoenix, Chicago, Portland, and Laredo’s Consulates accept any documented monthly deposits.

         steve
       • Earl Lee says:

         October 25, 2017 at 3:42 pm

         Just to update you on my situation applying for a Permanent Residency Visa (Retiree). It took me about 1.5 months to get an appointment online – https://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/sandiego/index.php/visas

         I followed all of the documentation on the website of what to bring. I brought 6 months of bank statements showing rental income deposited into my account every month. I made the mistake of only bringing 6 months worth of bank statements showing that I had over $80,000 each month in my account. (The requirement was for 12 months worth of statements).

         I mistakenly thought that it was and/or above. Either showing 6 months worth of income each month OR investments over $80,000. But they required BOTH and I only had 6 months of bank statements showing my balances and they required 12 months.

         The lady there (Lourdes) was very nice. She seemed a bit unsure I was applying for the correct Permanent Residency (Retiree) visa. I’m in my early 40’s so she was a bit puzzled at first. But then I explained I owned several rental properties and showed her on my bank statements the monthly deposits each month from AirBnb, HomeAway, Flipkey, as well as my management company. The monthly deposits were far in excess of what they required for monthly income.

         At first, she told me they couldn’t accept my bank statements for income as I had my Post Office address instead of my home address. She said that in Mexico they don’t recognize PO Boxes. But then she asked her manager and her manager said it was ok.

         When she was reviewing my investments/savings accounts she saw I only had 6 statements. She said that I needed 12 statements. So she said to bring 6 more statements and it should be ok. I told her it took over 1.5 months to get an appointment online. She said that I could come back 2 days later and come directly to her and she would take care of me.

         Sure enough, I went today with 6 more months statements and she said it was fine. And in fact, since my bank statements where I was getting the monthly deposits had a monthly balance of more than $150,000+ she said I didn’t need any other statements. She said those statements would be good enough.

         She took my photo, gave me a paper to go pay $36 and then when I came back she processed the paperwork. I waited 1 hour and she called my name and gave me back my passport with the Visa in it to finish in Mexico. It gave me 6 months to enter Mexico.

         It was surprisingly very very easy. HOWEVER, the big error I made is that I forgot that we’re taking a family vacation to Cabo next month (I planned on going to Mexico in February 2018 to complete my paperwork). So now I need to see what I need to do. No one ever picks up the phone at the San Diego consulate office. So I could use some advice from you if I should go back to the Consulate and explain to them my error.

         I heard you couldn’t have 2 visas at once and I’m not sure if I go to Cabo on vacation next month if that messes everything up. From the sound of things, it does and I may have to go back to the Consulate office to start again?

         I’d appreciate any/all advice. Thanks.
546. Bruce McGovern says:

     July 12, 2016 at 6:25 pm

     I got my Family Unity RT two years ago and we used a constancia from our municipio for all the name changes. We also went to the municipio and had her marriage recorded in the manner which in the past was deemed correct.

     When we went in, to Puebla, in April, for my RP, there was a nasty fiend there who tried everything to reject it. She even said the marriage certificate supplied by the municipal offices as not a true marriage certificate, only a note.

     An official said she would send it to the state marriage bureau to have a certificate made up. In a couple weeks I was notified to show up for my RP card They had some paper work laying around, but there was no official and new marriage certificate. My wife wanted to ask for a copy of our marriage certificate. I told her, “Shhhh!! Dont say a word until I have my RP in hand. I am convinced they made no new marriage certificate, that someone in power with a brain said, ‘Why were they married for two years and now they aren’t? Give him his RP and he won’t be back. don’t make us look stupid.;”

     She also tried to reject my application because the passport computer put my name as Mc Govern with a space, which is really wrong, and on the application I left no space, which is correct.

     Finally one of the officials said to let it go.

     All of this problem was very apparently the new employee.

     My wife asked her why they didn’t cause this problem in past years She snippily said, “That is why they don’t work here any more.”

     The new system was supposed to eliminate this sort of random behavior in those offices. And, it actually did. But, after a couple years, it’s back to normal.

     I don’t think they have the capacity to make a valid Mexican marriage certificate based on a valid US marriage certificate. Then, they wonder why the world scoffs at them.

     I told the one official finally that this sort of thing is why people in other countries mock Mexico, that the Mexican people are good, but this sort of nonsense shows the people deserve better government employees, who can figure out how to produce a valid Mexico marriage certificate from a valid US marriage certificate. that it was insulting to Mexican citizens to reject as unmarried a woman who has been married for over 40 years in another country.

     The municipal official suggested we get married again. I told her it was an insult to my wife to be told by a Mexican official that she had not been married for 40 years and to marry again. But, over the years on boards many couples have done so. the Mexican people deserve better from their government officials.

     Anyway, my guess is you have one very nasty employee who tries to invent reasons to reject things.

     Reply
     • therumjournal says:

       July 12, 2016 at 6:59 pm

       Bruce, did you wee get your citizenship?

       RC Sent from my iPhone

       >

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 13, 2016 at 5:32 pm

       Bruce,
       *grin*
       or
       *sigh* … ???

       The same kinds of things happened here in Yucatan, to me and 6 other long-married gringo couples (others were in their 60’s & 80’s).

       The other 6 gave up.

       My wife and I persisted with a lawyer, but finally ‘lost’ after 2½ years.

       I caved-in… and agreed to a quickee-Registro Civil Mexican marriage by the same Registro Civil official who denied our application to have our US marriage approved.

       (Their official reason for rejecting our application was that our Colorado marriage license was supposedly ‘a fake‘, because the CO document did not have illumination, nor decorations on the borders… no pheasants, no deer, no scroll work like Yucatecan documents)

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         July 14, 2016 at 10:18 am

         I may talk to my niece. I think she no longer works for the government, but at one time was an executive assistant to high ranking legislators, even AMLO. This is not only an insult to the long married couples, but is a disgrace to the wonderful Mexican people to be connected with such nonsense and stupidity.
547. Bruce McGovern says:

     July 12, 2016 at 10:36 pm

     No, I got Permanent Residence Family Unity. I will be contemplating applying for Citizenship in future months. My concern is speaking Spanish. Moderator tells us states differ in levels required. I can stay here by myself, and socialize with neighbors in Spanish. But, my conjugations are pretty much non-existent. I don’t know what my local office in Puebla demands.

     Reply
     • Panamarayan says:

       July 12, 2016 at 10:45 pm

       Cool, was the process pretty smooth for the change to RP?

       I think you will be ok. Is the money wasted if they don’t pass you on the Spanish? From what I hear, Yucatan is hard, does anyone have info regarding BAJA, SONORA, CHIHUAHUA or QUINTANA ROO?

       Reply
     • Panamarayan says:

       July 12, 2016 at 10:57 pm

       Cool. Was it a pretty smooth process. Other than a passport and voting are there any benefits or differences in RP vs citizen?

       I’m sure you will be fine in the process.

       Anyone know how baja, Sonora, chihuahua, or Quintana Roo are? I heard on here that yucatan is very strict.

       RC

       >

       Reply
548. Bruce McGovern says:

     July 14, 2016 at 8:57 am

     >>Cool, was the process pretty smooth for the change to RP?

     No, for the first time the office staff turned into jerks, mostly because of one sour looking new employee. She even complained that my name on the application was Bruce McGovern and on the passport it said Bruce Mc Govern. I am guessing the passport computer puts in a space when there is a capitol. To her it wasn’t the same name. Grrr!!

     When my wife pointed out they had accepted it all the other years, she said sarcastically, “That is why those employees no longer work here.”

     Other than a passport and voting are there any benefits or differences in RP vs citizen?

     For me, it is emotional at a minimum. I want to die as a Mexican. I am not sure that makes sense to anyone else but to me it does. I told friends I am a traditional male, which means I don’t cry. but, I suspect the minute they tell me I am Mexican, I am going to cry like a baby.

     Reply
549. KLM says:

     July 14, 2016 at 2:15 pm

     yucalandia says:
     July 14, 2016 at 12:54 pm
     Hi Kirk,
     Wow, it’s hard to imagine how SRE could legally justify giving a passport through INM (SEGOB) processes => it would be not-legal, and it would expect one govt. agency (like Scotland Yard) to do the key responsibility of a completely different agency (Foreign Services ministry).

     In a US metaphor: That would be like going to the US Customs & Border Patrol (Homeland Security), to ask them to issue you a passport… because US passports are issued only by Secretary of State…

     This would be like going the the IRS to ask to open a personal checking account … or applying with the IRS to issue you a business license or sales tax license…

     ???
     steve
     Panamarayan says:
     July 14, 2016 at 1:07 pm
     Well could this be like a “travel document”? Not a passport, and annotated as such. I know Panama does this, Brazil (but for very specific cases, like refugees and Panama for special investors). US DHS does issue a travel document to refugees that are good for a year or two. I find it hard pressed that Mexico would, but if they do, I want to know!

     (Sorry about format, couldn’t find the reply button)

     I don’t know. Perhaps. They kept talking about a passport. My friend is a natural born U.S. citizen and has a U.S. passport plus the RP. Perhaps it is a travel document of some sort. Not sure why he needs something else. He often goes NOB anyway. If he gets one or whatever it is I will update here.

     If it is truly a Mexican passport I too really want to know how!

     PS. Steve, What’s the difference in asking the IRS to open a bank account? They already steal money from us anyway. That way they could just help themselves, …oh yeah, they already do!

     Reply
     • Ryan Collins says:

       July 14, 2016 at 2:26 pm

       https://www.gob.mx/tramites/ficha/documento-de-identidad-y-viaje-para-extranjeros-mayores-de-edad/SRE120

       I found this on their site but it’s mostly for stateless persons? I read some of it but not all but I’m not sure this would apply to your friend. But it does say for adults also so who knows!

       Ryan Sent from my iPhone

       >

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 15, 2016 at 8:45 am

       good insights!

       Yes, INM does issue temporary transit documents for crossing Mexico or leaving Mexico… so your friend’s less-than-perfect Spanish may have led him to misinterpret things, thinking he can get a Mexican passport with just Residente Permanente status.

       Looking forward to the updates,

       Happy Trails, steve

       Reply
       • KLM says:

         July 25, 2016 at 8:17 am

         OK, I think I finally understand… partly anyway. My friend is getting a passport, but after he gets his Mexican citizenship, which he has started the process. The INM office is getting his records of how long / how many times he has left the country over the past several years.
         I think it is more of my misinterpreting Spanish while listening to the conversation!
       • yucalandia says:

         July 25, 2016 at 5:17 pm

         No, that’s correct.

         INM has to confirm that he will be completing 5 years of temporary residency… with no substantive violations… and that he has not been outside of Mexico too much (see Citizenship descriptions and link in the article above if you want to know more)

         Happy Trails,
         steve
550. Bob says:

     July 17, 2016 at 11:08 am

     Hello, I am looking for some advice….I am currently living in Cozumel with a residencia temporal card I received in April. After being here, I am very interested in starting a company as a sole proprietorship. My understanding is that I cannot open a company as a sole proprietorship unless I am a Permanent Resident. I can open a corporation as a RT but the rules and the requirements are much more involved to do this. I have to have a Mexican National on the corporate papers, must hire a Mexican worker and I can only act as administrator of the corporation and cannot “work” independently within the corporation and perform daily work duties other than administration.
     My question is, first…Is everything above correct?
     And secondly, what are the requirements to convert my temporary residency to permanent residency? After researching this, it appears that you need $104,000 in a financial institute for the last 12 months OR have a monthly income of over $2588.00 over the last 6 months. I do not have either of these requirements, however, my wife does. She is currently working in the USA and will not be pursuing any residency here like I wish to do. She assisted me with both our incomes back in April to get my Temporary Residency however she did not come here and get her RT. She did get the visa along with me in her passport but did not come here and finalize her temporary residency which the consulate said was fine.
     Can I essentially do the same thing that we did together to get my Temporary Residency in the pursuit of Permanent Residency??
     I want to do everything legally and within the laws of the Mexican immigration office, however, I do not want to start down a process only to find weeks or months later that I am unable to accomplish my goal of Permanent Residency.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 19, 2016 at 9:35 am

       Hi Bob,
       Your descriptions do not fit my experiences with our Mexican accountant.

       Our accountant said I could open a consulting, services, and repairs/construction business – and hire zero Mexicans.

       Re the ‘Personal Fiscal Solvency’ requirements, read the section for Residente Permanentes (above).
       https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Proof of Financial Independence for Permanent Residency Applicants

       The proof of meeting ‘Personal Fiscal Solvency’ requirements is made by providing fiscal statements, on letterhead, with your name listed as the account holder. Those are the same rules for both RT & RP (regardless of what the Consulate did).

       The details for what is possible are listed as answers to your other 2 posts (below).

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
551. Bob says:

     July 18, 2016 at 3:27 pm

     I need some advice… I am currently holding temporary residency in Mexico since April 2016. I wish to convert it to permanent residency. In April, I had to use my wifes income to satisfy financial solvency to get my temporary residency. My wifes income is substantial and should cover any necessary monthly income requirements for permanent residency, however, my wife has no intentions of actually coming to Mexico and completing the process. I am though. Will this work as it did in April where we both got visas in our passport and I came to Mexico and got my temporary residency while my wife did not?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 19, 2016 at 9:26 am

       Hello Bob,
       You need to check with your local INM office. Make the application to change from RT to RP.

       If you had completed 4 years of RT, then you could qualify automatically(?) for RP, without supplying proof of ‘Personal Fiscal Solvency’.

       In your case it could go any one of 3 ways, depending on the INM clerk/supervisor/delegado’s decisions.

       1. They have the authorization (leeway) to grant you RP without showing proof of ‘Personal Fiscal Solvency’.

       2. They have authorization (leeway) to require you to show a combination of your’s and your wife’s financial statements proving your ‘Personal Fiscal Solvency’.
       or
       3. They have full authorization to follow ‘the letter of the law‘ and require you to supply ONLY financial statements of ONLY your accounts (statements with your name as the principal account holder) to prove ‘Personal Fiscal Solvency’ that meets RP requirements.

       Either talk with your local INM, (your best option)…
       or
       file the RP application, they charge you a nominal fee (‘regularizacion’ – fee listed above) for evaluating whether you qualify, and if you & your fiscal statements qualify, then they have you come back in to pay for the RP fees, submit ID fotos, etc.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
552. Kenly Musch says:

     July 18, 2016 at 3:47 pm

     Hello, I need some advice….I currently hold temporary residency here in Mexico since April, 2016.
     I needed my wife to apply with me to satisfy financial solvency requirements in April. I now wish to convert to permanent residency. My wife’s income is substantial and should satisfy any financial requirements needed for permanent residency, however, my wife does not intend on coming to Mexico and actually becoming a permanent resident. I will be though. Will this work as it did in April when we both received the visa in our passports but only I came down and actually completed the process? Also, can you tell me the requirements needed to get permanent residency as a married couple? Thank you for any and all advice on this matter.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 19, 2016 at 9:27 am

       Hello Kenly,
       Hello Bob,
       You need to check with your local INM office. Make the application to change from RT to RP.

       If you had completed 4 years of RT, then you could qualify automatically(?) for RP, without supplying proof of ‘Personal Fiscal Solvency’.

       In your case it could go any one of 3 ways, depending on the INM clerk/supervisor/delegado’s decisions.

       1. They have the authorization (leeway) to grant you RP without showing proof of ‘Personal Fiscal Solvency’.

       2. They have authorization (leeway) to require you to show a combination of your’s and your wife’s financial statements proving your ‘Personal Fiscal Solvency’.
       or
       3. They have full authorization to follow ‘the letter of the law‘ and require you to supply ONLY financial statements of ONLY your accounts (statements with your name as the principal account holder) to prove ‘Personal Fiscal Solvency’ that meets RP requirements.

       Either talk with your local INM, (your best option)…
       or
       file the RP application, they charge you a nominal fee (‘regularizacion’ – fee listed above) for evaluating whether you qualify, and if you & your fiscal statements qualify, then they have you come back in to pay for the RP fees, submit ID fotos, etc.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply

553. Pingback: Articulo 142 Del Codigo Penal Del Estado De Jalisco | Stunner1

554. Brian says:

     July 29, 2016 at 7:44 pm

     Hi I need some advice. I’m retired and will be applying at a Mexican Consular office for Permanent Residency. This I believe results in a visa stamp in my passport and when I get to Mexico I use this to go through the process of getting the actual resident card. My problem is this intial visit I would like to drive my foreign plated vehicle into Mexico and stay for two months then drive it out. Is this possible? Would I get a TIP for it as I have the permanent resident visa in my passport. I understand permanent residents cannot drive foreign plated vehicles or is there some initial grace period that allows this.
     Brian

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 30, 2016 at 8:43 am

       Hi Brian,
       Yes, sort of.

       For sure you can get a 30day TIP for the car.

       Some people have applied for the TIP online in the past, getting a permit that is valid up to 1 year – before getting to the border, once they have the Consular approval, but Aduana has been tightening up their systems, especially their computer-links to the TIP website, so you now may ONLY be able to get a 30 day TIP.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 31, 2016 at 11:30 am

       Brian,
       Do you have a wife or partner?

       If they entered Mexico with you, on either a 6 month visitors visa, then they could register the TIP on their visa… easily covering your 2 month plan.
       steve

       Reply
555. Liz Holland says:

     August 7, 2016 at 8:57 am

     Thank you for such a great website! I have a few questions I hope you can help me with.My family is planning a relocation to Mexico. My husband and I plan to drive in and will be applying for his temporary residency at the Laredo consulate. I will be entering on a tourist visa and will apply with my children at a later date since we won’t have the kids with us on the road trip. We will be residing in the Tulum area. Our issue is that my husband has a conference in the USA he must attend about a month after we arrive. I understand he can get a letter to allow him to leave even though his residency is still in process. Our concern is the car and TIP. Will that letter also allow the car to stay even though he must leave or will the vehicle then become illegal? We plan to attach the TIP to him because I will also need to fly out to go and pick up our kids, so having it on my tourist visa is not an option. (correct?) I also believe I read on here that Quintana Roo is a free zone, so would that allow us to leave the country and still keep the car there legally, either on a tourist visa or when my husband leaves? Thanks for any help!!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 7, 2016 at 11:19 am

       Hi Liz,
       What an excellent question:
       “Will that letter also allow the car to stay even though he must leave or will the vehicle then become illegal? ”

       I can see 2 potentially viable options:
       1. Try and get a 6 month TIP online under your husband’s name, before you get to the border (IF POSSIBLE). That way, the TIP has a 6 month expiration date, and your husband would then notify Aduana of his RT visa’s new expiration date (one year from his approval date at INM).
       or
       if Aduana will not let him get the 6 month permit online (and he would be stuck with a 30 day TIP in his name – issued at the border) :
       then
       2. You register the TIP in your name – 6 month expiration date.
       (2.a) He gets his RT visa from INM… typically 2 weeks to 4 weeks…
       and
       (2.b) You then immediately apply for an RT visa under the Unidad de Familia ~Vinculo Familiar~ process, which gets you an RT visa within 4 – 6 weeks, and you then notify Aduana of your new RT visa expiration date… which then resets the TIP expiration date to a year out from your RT visa date… => setting the TIP’s new expiration date to roughly 14 months from when you entered Mexico.

       Option 2 also protects your TIP $$ deposit with Banjercito, which can sometimes be lost if he gets the TIP (with just a 30 day expiration date) ….

       because INM does not always issue the RT visa within ‘HIS’ 30 day TIP expiration date.

       Make sense?
       steve

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 7, 2016 at 11:24 am

       Option 3:
       Alternately, you could put the TIP in either name… and drive to Chetumal to surrender the TIP (before the TIP expires, or before flying out)… collect your cash deposit at the Banjercito office at the border (- Santa Helena/Subtinente Lopez) … and drive back into Quintana Roo… keeping the foreign-plated car ONLY in Quintana Roo…

       until one of you has the RT visa… and re-register the car with Banjercito/Aduana Belize border office with a NEW TIP under that new RT visa.

       Make sense??
       steve

       Reply
556. Liz Holland says:

     August 7, 2016 at 9:59 am

     My reply has not appeared. Just testing this to see if any go through immediately or if it needs approval to post.

     Reply
557. Liz Holland says:

     August 7, 2016 at 2:28 pm

     Thanks for the reply. Regarding option 1, even if we were to get a 6 month Tip, once he leaves Mexico to attend the conference in the USA, wouldn’t it still be cancelled? Really, it’s not the length of time on the Tip that matters but rather the fact that he will need to leave Mexico within a month of arriving and thus the tip will become invalid. That is my understanding.. unless somehow the travel letter will allow the car to stay in the country legally while he is on the trip. Won’t he get a new FMM number when he returns? And that number must match the number on the Tip?
     Option 2B: I can not get anything in my name, since I also need to leave Mexico shortly after arriving to fly to Florida to pick up our kids and dogs and fly them in.

     Option 3 seems like it would work, although it may be more of a hassle. We won’t have any problems driving a car without a tip in Quintana Roo? Will we have any issue crossing getting a new tip in Chetumal? Do we need to cross the border into Belize to do this? I have read that people are being asked to stay in Belize for a week to do a visa renewal, so I wonder if we would have that issue. Thanks!!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 7, 2016 at 10:48 pm

       For people with Visitors visas, flying out of the country cancels their visitor’s visa, but if he has an RT, the TIP’s expiration date gets set to the RT visa expiration date (no cancellation when an RT flies out).

       As long as he has his RT application in process (not denied), then the TIP keeps its original expiration date.

       Re FMM: The FMM is NOT a visa.

       The FMM is a Forma Migratoria Multiple … used by RTs, RPs, estudiantes, and visitantes for registering their exits and entrances into Mexico. Unfortunately, too many Gringos & too many gringo websites & webboards talk about the FMM form as if it were a visa.

       e.g. When your husband has his RT, then when he flies out of Mexico, he fills out both Exiting Mexico and Entering Mexico halves of an FMM.

       INM keeps the ‘Exiting Mexico’ half of the FMM, and he uses the remaining ‘Entering Mexico’ half of the FMM form to return into Mexico on his next return.

       Re Option 3:
       Foreigners (as described above) can drive their foreign plated cars freely all around the Free Zones of Baja California, Q. Roo, and parts of Sonora. ~NO TIP REQUIRED~ … They are required to keep current license & registration on their foreign-plated cars (which is a hassle for US states that require annual emissions testing to be able to register the car) …

       People who want to alleviate that problem, simply get South Dakota plates & registration – which is done through the mail … or over the internet…

       The last times we surrendered TIPs, we are NOT required to leave Mexico.

       … The requirement to leave Mexico is for the goofy gringos who try to use a series of 6 month visitors visas … as a way to try to skirt the Residente Temporal requirements.

       … which becomes more & more risky, as Aduana agents who check the national database… now detect those serial visitor visa holders… and sometimes tell them: “Sorry, no more entries for you for a while…” … “Go back to your home country, and apply at a Mexican Consulate for a Residente Temporal visa.” …

       other foreign residents of Mexico who try to game the systems with lots of visitors visas… are told to go into Belize for 3 days….

       Makes sense…?

       Happy Trails

       Reply
558. Barbara says:

     August 11, 2016 at 9:03 pm

     Hi Steve –

     Time is getting short for when I’ll need my RT visa to move to MX and the Seattle consulate is very (VERY) slow in responding re setting up an initial appointment to turn in documents. I believe once that happens I will need to return for an interview. You cannot get through to a live person on the phone and to date they’ve not responded to voice mails. They did once respond to an email requesting an appointment. They asked me to email the deed to any property I own in Mexico, whether or not I intended to work there, and to email the last three months of bank statements so they could see if I qualify. I replied stating I don’t own property, do not plan to work, and did not have a means to scan and email documents. Even if I did I’d not be comfortable sending banking information with all account numbers, etc. via unsecured email.

     However I did include figures for the three months of deposits in both checking and savings, and ending balances for the months they wanted. The figures are well above what’s required for a RT visa. I stated I would bring all original documents necessary to my appointment and asked them to please confirm a time and date. Have not heard anything back.

     I live in Washington about halfway between Portland and Seattle – and one would think Seattle would be the closest consulate. It is as the crow flies – however given traffic, etc. it takes less time to get to the consulate in Portland, OR, and the drive is much less stressful. Too, the Seattle consulate is only open Mon-Thursday from 8:00 – 1:00 and requires an appointment. The Portland consulate is open Mon- Friday 8:00 – 5:00 and does not require an appointment to give them your visa paperwork and application. They say to drop in Mon, Wed, or Fri, between 12:00 and 1:30, they will review it, and give you an appointment time for your interview. My question is: would it matter (to them) to go to another state to apply? If not I’ll go to Portland next week and get it underway rather than be so stressed thinking Seattle is not going to get back to me in time to have my visa in place before I need to leave.

     Thanks so much – and I’ll report back either way I go on how the process goes.

     Barbara

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 12, 2016 at 7:01 am

       Hi Barbara,
       Good update on how un-responsive the Seattle Mexican Consulate is… and on how they are creating extra requirements not listed in Mexican law.

       The reports on Portland’s Mexican Consulate have all been good, good, good.

       Thanks, steve

       Reply
559. john bradley says:

     August 12, 2016 at 9:50 am

     The Consulates up here are just giving you some practice in getting the run around and being patient so you feel at home in Mexico… 😀

     Reply
560. meenee says:

     August 13, 2016 at 7:03 am

     I’m applying for temporary residency and wondering how long, realistically, it will take to get the card after presenting myself to the INM office in Mexico. I’ll be going to the one in Mazatlan. From what I’ve read, it seems like that part of the process normally takes about 4 weeks. Is that correct? Can anyone share their experience? How long did it take for you to get your card, after your first visit to the INM office?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 13, 2016 at 8:53 am

       A few offices are processing the requests in 2 weeks… others 4 weeks … a few are taking 6 weeks…

       Check with a local Mazatlan board for CURRENT realities.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
561. meenee says:

     August 14, 2016 at 7:01 am

     thank you

     Reply
562. Finian Taylor says:

     August 26, 2016 at 7:38 pm

     I have a question re: RT. I recently obtained in Atlanta the visa sheet pasted into my passport, after being photographed, finger-printed, submitting a 2×2 photo, and being interviewed.
     When I go to the INM office in San Miguel, will they want any of these items again? And, what other items do I bring? Thanx loads.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 27, 2016 at 11:54 pm

       Hi Finian,
       In THEORY: You should only need to continue your RT process at your San Miguel INM office, be fingerprinted, sign forms, pay the fees, etc.

       SOME INM offices add their own local twists, but we are unaware of how the SMA INM office currently handles these.

       Current information on local INM office practices are best inquired about on local expat internet forums, to get the latest details on what’s needed, and how long things are taking.

       Happy Trails & Safe Travels,
       steve

       Reply
563. Bruce McGovern says:

     August 28, 2016 at 7:51 am

     I am far less knowledgeable than Steve, But, my cynical view is, take everything with you that you have, JUST IN CASE. What you don’t have is what they want. [cynicaloff]

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 29, 2016 at 8:58 am

       Bruce’s view does have roots in reality.

       There are some INM clerks, and a few INM offices that occassionally require the Consulate-approved applicants to re-document everything…

       unlikely… but possible.
       *sigh*

       steve

       Reply
564. Rahul says:

     August 29, 2016 at 11:37 pm

     Hello, I have 513838 Peso as savings , i want to know is this amount is enough to apply for four year Temporary Residency ?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 30, 2016 at 8:46 am

       Above… see:
       https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Various Types of Proof of Financial Independence for Temporary Residency

       “Documentation of Proof of Financial Independence by Average Annual Bank Balance:
       Provide 12 months of original bank or investment account statements (plus copies) as proof savings/investments, to show minimum Average Monthly Balance amounts equivalent to 5,000 days of the general minimum wage in the District Federal for the previous twelve months (73.04 pesos per day for 2016) => $365,200 pesos or about $20,900 US at an exchange rate $17.5:1 …”

       Happy Trails.
       steve

       Reply
       • Rahul says:

         August 30, 2016 at 11:24 pm

         thanks for reply . just for clarification
         for one year Temporary Residency visa $365200 pesos ?
         so to get four year Temporary Residency visa i need to show minimum $1460800 pesos as savings ?
       • yucalandia says:

         August 31, 2016 at 9:12 am

         You need that original amount (adjusted for wage inflation) every year. If you do not spend any of the original amount from the original account, that same account w/same amount qualifies each of the subsequent years.
565. Barbara Lane says:

     August 30, 2016 at 2:52 pm

     Hi Steve – A quick question if I may – I have an appointment this Thursday, Sept. 1st at the Mexican Consulate in Seattle to apply for RT. I have found the fees for 1, 2, 3, and 4 years of RT, and know one must pay “Consular Fees” when applying. Do I need to be prepared to pay the Visa fee in Seattle, or do I pay at the INM office when I get to Mexico and follow up? The website doesn’t say how much the “Consular Fee” is so no idea how much money to have on hand. I want to take cash as I don’t know what they accept, and want to be prepared.

     Thank you so much (for all you do) and I’ll report back in a few days and let you know how things went!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 31, 2016 at 9:25 am

       Hi Barbara,
       The visa fee is paid at INM in Mexico.

       Consular fees had been reported at $30 … to $60.
       steve

       Reply
566. Barbara says:

     August 31, 2016 at 5:39 pm

     Thank you so much. I will report back!

     Reply
567. Barbara Lane says:

     September 2, 2016 at 4:32 am

     Hi Steve –

     As promised I’m reporting back re the Seattle Consulate. Had my appointment yesterday with them for a RT. I will retire Nov. 1st so this report is for someone who is presenting required documents while still working, thus not having retirement income to show. Having said that I’m sure much of it applies to the application process regardless of what type of visa you are applying for.

     About two months prior I called to set up an appointment. They do not answer the phone but you are able to leave a message. I never got a call back. I then emailed (the first time using the “Contact” form on their website) and got an email back two days later. They are open for business Monday-Thursday 8:00-1:00. However I’ve learned from their emails they work on Fridays as well, just do not see people then. I was asked to email them 3 mo. of bank statements (checking or savings account), a copy of the deed if I own property in Mexico (I do not), and a letter from my employer if I am going to work in Mexico (I am not). They stated once I had scanned/emailed them those documents they would give me an appointment for an interview. I replied I do not own property, do not plan to work in MX, and have no way to scan. In my email I told them what the last three months of deposits and ending balances were in my checking and savings accounts, told them I would bring all original documents to my appointment, and asked for an interview appointment on a certain day/time that worked for me to travel to Seattle. I received an email four days later thanking me and confirming my appointment on the day/time I requested, and reminding me to bring all required documents on that day. I replied thanking them and assuring them I would bring everything as requested, and confirmed each document needed as stated on their website. Too, I asked if there was anything else I needed to bring that was not on that list. Three days later I got a very nice email saying, “Don’t worry all the documents I need you already put it on the list! So, the only thing missing is your kind presence in this consulate!”

     The list of documents for a RT visa on the Seattle website are: original passport and one photocopy, application for Residente Temporal (form can be printed from website), one photo passport size no glasses, original bank statements in US dollars for the last 3 months, the last 12 months of pay stubs, an employment letter specifying position and salary, the last twelve months of international credit card statements, yearly award letter from Social security and one copy, Consular fee (website does not give fee but I paid $36.00 USD).

     The Consulate was very busy. Two entry doors are locked and a very nice gentleman asks your purpose and lets you in with instructions of where to go. I arrived early for my appointment and checked in at the counter where I was asked for my passport and then told to take a seat. I was called to the counter promptly at appointment time and a very nice young woman shook my hand, introduced herself (as the one who had responded to my emails) and told me she would give me my visa at the end of the appointment. She then asked if I had my bank statements and I gave them to her and she asked if she could keep them. Then asked if I had proof of where I would be living in Mexico. I did – I gave her a copy of my lease and she looked it over carefully and asked if she could keep it. I then gave her my application (she didn’t ask but I gave it to her) and she looked it over carefully. I then asked if she wanted my employment letter and she said yes, if I had one. I did and gave it to her. She asked to see nothing else and said to take a seat and in about 20 minutes she would come out to take my photo and fingerprints. She didn’t ask for them but I gave her the passport photo I’d had taken, and gave her the fingerprint card (I’d had them taken at WA State Patrol) I had with notarized and apostilled background check but she didn’t want it. I sat down and promptly in 20 minutes she called me back to the counter. She took two photos and let me choose one, then had me put my index fingers on a box that transferred my fingerprints to her computer screen, gave me a ticket of sorts to take downstairs to the cashier and said it would be another 20 or so minutes and she would give me my visa.

     I went downstairs and paid the Consular fee of $36.00 USD, took the receipts back upstairs and gave her one copy and took a seat. About 15 minutes later she called me to the counter, smiling, and had my passport in her hand. She opened it to show me my RT visa, and explained to me it’s for one entry into MX which I must make within six months, and that I must go to an IMM office there within 30 days of arrival to complete my application and in turn will receive a lamented RT visa card. She continued with how I must reapply for a RT visa and how/when I could apply for a RP visa later if I choose. I knew all of that but of course let her speak. She was very, very nice, and I left very, very happy!

     All told it took about 1 hour and 45 minutes from walking in to walking out with my visa. To sum it up – I was asked for one thing not on the list of required documents (proof of where I’d be living in Mexico), and only asked for three things that were on the list (application, 3 bank statements, employment letter). Of course I had everything on the list and then some (thankfully I’d thought to take a copy of my lease for the house I’ve rented for my first months there). Of course I would never go without everything listed as required – but this was my experience yesterday. I had many documents they did not list as I’d rather be over-prepared than have to return because I hadn’t taken something initially.

     All in all it was a very easy process, the Seattle Consulate was very helpful, very nice, and as I said I am very happy to see the visa in my passport! Hope this helps someone. Thank you for all the help you have been and continue to be to me! “We get by with a little help from our friends” is gospel if ever it was written.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 3, 2016 at 9:44 am

       Great report.
       THANKS!
       steve

       Reply
568. Finian Taylor says:

     September 4, 2016 at 7:44 pm

     By the way, what are the acceptable modes of payment at INM offices?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 4, 2016 at 9:04 pm

       There are no acceptable modes of payment at INM offices.

       Instead, INM personnel print out a special receipt for any amounts owed. You take that receipt to any bank, and pay the bank teller.

       The bank gives you a receipt to show to INM as proof of payment,
       steve

       Reply
569. Rahul says:

     September 6, 2016 at 6:57 am

     Hello,
     i am and Indian and i am going to marry with a Mexican girl next year ,i have sufficient savings which can help me to get temporary resident visa. but i want to know if married to a Mexican citizen do i still need to show my financial condition to qualify for temporary or permanent resident visa ?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 6, 2016 at 2:17 pm

       Hi Rahul,
       As an Indian citizen, India does not have an immigration treaty with Mexico, so, you must get approval from the Mexican Consulate to travel to Mexico.

       Will you be married before you travel to Mexico?

       Foreigners who are married to Mexicans can enter Mexico on Visitante Visas (as a tourist) and then apply for a Residente Temporal visa at your local INM office inside Mexico under the Vinculo Familiar program (described above).

       If you are not married before travel, you would have to get married in Mexico well before your 6 month Visitante Visa expired – to then apply for RT under Vinculo Familiar (no financial proofs needed) before the Visitante Visa expires.

       Good Luck,
       steve

       Reply
       • Rahul says:

         September 7, 2016 at 2:03 am

         Hello Steve,
         Thank you for reply. Yes we are planning to get married in India before we move to mexico. As per my search and information provided in Mexico embassy website New Delhi, India, they only give 30 days tourist visa (number of days allowed in mexico).

         So before we get married we may need to get NOC from Mexican embassy New Delhi for marriage and then we are thinking to apply for RT visa here in New Delhi on basis of our marriage.
         Thanks.
       • yucalandia says:

         September 7, 2016 at 8:22 am

         That can work.
       • yucalandia says:

         September 7, 2016 at 3:29 pm

         Be sure to have your key documents apostilled, to be able to have them accepted by the Mex. Gob.
       • Rahul says:

         September 8, 2016 at 3:37 am

         Yes of course we will do that too for all our required documents .
         thank you
570. HEATHER ROBLES says:

     September 21, 2016 at 7:17 pm

     I have already went to the INM and applied for my residente permanente. I opened the email 3 weeks ago that stated it was accepted. I have had a financial haed ship, was sick in the hospital and have not made it to the INM to complete the process. I have paid the inital fee and need to go back and be finger prnted and photo and pay the last fee. My question is my temporal has exspired since then which they took on the day of my inital visit. what is going to happen? it has been about one month since the INM visit. Will they send me back to the border to start all over again?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 21, 2016 at 7:37 pm

       Hi Heather,
       Did you apply for the RP at a Consulate, or at an INM office?

       People applying directly at INM offices are already in Mexico on a long term visa. People coming in on the special 30 day Consular stamp may be treated differently.

       In theory, you should be fine, particularly if you can document why you did not go in to INM when they notified you.

       Contact your INM office ASAP, and tell them you are now available and ready to return to finish the process.

       You should be fine,
       steve

       Reply
       • HEATHER ROBLES says:

         September 21, 2016 at 7:46 pm

         Hi Steve i applied at the INM office directly. Im just so worried that i will have to make that long trip back and start all over again. so as long as i had applied before the temp res. card exspired i should be ok? i have tried to call and they were not helpful and refused to give any information over the phone. i was still sick and didnt want to make anyone else there sick as well as the office is always so full.
571. HEATHER ROBLES says:

     September 21, 2016 at 7:42 pm

     Hi i have a question im hoping someone can answer. I have been living in Mexico for over 4 years now and i had my apt, with the INM about a month ago and started the paper work for perm. Residente. I paid the inital fee and was sent home to wait for an email of acceptance. I recieved it a few weeks ago and fell ill. I have not yet been back to finish the process. Since then my residente temporal has exspired which they took from me when i started the process. My question is how long do you have before the process has to be finished? Are they going to send me back to the border to start all over again? I am legally married to Mexican national and am under V. familiar.thanks in advance.

     Reply
     • HEATHER ROBLES says:

       September 21, 2016 at 7:47 pm

       so sorry i posted it twice opps

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 22, 2016 at 7:51 am

       Hi Heather,
       Have they notified you that you have been approved for RP status?
       The initial fee was just to change from RT to RP. You will also have to pay the RP fee when they approve you for RP.

       We have never seen a published time for how long we ‘have before the process is finished’. Some applicants report their local INM offices taking between 2 months – 3 months to process the application.

       If you start the process before the RT visa expires (which you did), then your prior visa expiration date is suspended.

       Go back to INM to complete the process. Explain that you have been sick.

       Glad you’re feeling better,
       steve

       Reply
       • HEATHER ROBLES says:

         September 22, 2016 at 9:05 am

         Hi Steve, yes i recieved an email a week or so later stating that i was approved. I just have not made the trip back to the INM office to finish the process. I will be going this next week but the time period would be about almost a month and a half since the email was sent. with all i had to pay at the hospital i didnt have the 4,300 to yet finish the process. Ill let them know i have been sich and hope for the best. The ladies in my office are far from understanding to say the least but ill give it my best. thanks so much for your help. Heather
572. Terri says:

     September 22, 2016 at 8:12 am

     Last month when we renewed our temporary residency status, we did all the paperwork and paid the fees. They also said to wait for an email, but also to return in about a week. We were waiting for emails, but never received them, so after about ten days we went to the office. Actually, we went to the office because the online status of my application did not show that the fees had been paid, so I was concerned about that and that’s the reason we went to the office, although they had said to return in about a week anyway. At the office they then made appointments for us to return in about five days to complete the process (after assuring me that they did have proof of me paying my fee and that there was no problem with that). So anyway, what I’m saying is that when we returned to the office it prompted them to complete the process of our RT renewal applications and we got our new Residente Temporal cards two weeks after having applied. Of course, that is for RT status and not RP status.

     Reply
     • sdibaja says:

       September 22, 2016 at 8:54 am

       I had a kinda similar experience in Ensenada, Baja.
       I had applied for the new RP plastic card to replace my old FM booklet and Inmigrado Letter. (Notaries were having no issues with the old style, but I was getting grief when I was renewing my driver’s license)
       After waiting for the email my wife insisted that we go back to the office and ask. Sure enough, they put things in motion and I got my cute little wallet card withing a few days…

       SO: I advise making a trip back just to keep things moving. They will not be annoyed.
       Peter

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 22, 2016 at 9:51 am

       Hi Terri,
       Great report.
       There are such wide variations between INM local office’s abilities to process applications quickly or slowly, we have to rely on current reports of how our local office is performing.

       What INM office did you use?
       steve

       Reply
       • Terri says:

         September 22, 2016 at 10:21 am

         Steve – it was the INM office in Merida.
573. Mark says:

     September 22, 2016 at 2:57 pm

     Hello Steve
     My wife and I came to Cancun via Brownsville in Sept. 2015, getting 180 day Temp (Tourist) Visas. At the same time, we got the 180 day TIP & paid the 200. deposit; which would now have been lost after the 180 day period expired March 1st 2016; because we did not drive the car out of Cancun and surrender the TIP when we had our 2nd 180 day Temp (Tourist) Visas renewed. We have just received our 3rd Temp/Tourist Visa’s today.
     We may need to drive our car out through Brownsville, (Oct./Nov). while our new (3rd) Temp Visa'(s) are still valid. We will have been here without leaving for approx: 14 months when we attempt to leave with the car. We’re worried about a possible confiscation, or fines for the past due TIP date of March 2016.
     In going through the info on your web site, which included reading all of artical 106; I can’t locate the verbage that would tell Police that our expired TIP (March 2016) is still valid to drive back to the border on.
     Tip’s are registered to the original Temp Visa number issued. I have just received my 3rd Temp Visa; so does this mean that my expired (Past 180 days) TIP is registered to the 1st Visa I got coming into Mexico in Sept.2015? If I make it to the border and turn in my expired TIP to get it recorded that I removed the vehicle; should I be expecting a fine or worse?
     TIPs remain valid as long as there are no breaks (no expirations or cancellations/surrenders) and no penalties. Being well past the 180 days, does that mean it would be considered expired?
     Also, I read that if you go back by Plane your TIP permit expires as soon as your FMM is turned in (surrendered at airport). I’ve read people fined 390 pesos for having an open TIP they didn’t turn in; before being allowed to fly out.
     With all the new rules of going through Mexico City, along with the time frames involved to possibly get a Retorno Seguro permit; that would be out of the question in our current situation.
     Police across Mexico do hassle some TIP car drivers, and sometimes they have even confiscated cars, but 100% of the internet reports you’ve tracked over the last 12 years show that drivers with copies of Article 106 in the car have had the police back away when shown the law.
     I’m told that while my immigration status (Temp/Tourist) remains in place, including extensions, extensions or endorsements; my vehicle is legal in the country
     Question asked on your blog by another;
     When I drive the car back to the USA in late 2016 and I ask them to remove the TIP that is dated: Expires March 1st .2016 upon exit what am I up to?
     Your reply to another was: As long as you don’t have an accident or get stopped by police… then you surrender the paper document for the TIP & Aduana/Banjercito just removes the sticker and cancels the TIP. I am approximating the TIP will be 14 to 15 months old from the issue date, which was intended for 180 days; would they be looking to fine me in any way?
     In Q. Roo foreign-license plate registrations MUST be kept current – as it is a“Free Zone”. Why have I heard that foreign plated cars with TIPS do Not need to have current plate registrations? Would a car with a TIP expiration date that is past require current registration or not? It’s my understanding you can drive in Q.Roo for many years on expired foreign plates
     Thank you
     Mark & Laurie Lambert

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 22, 2016 at 4:21 pm

       Hi Mark & Laurie,
       “In going through the info on your web site, which included reading all of artical 106; I can’t locate the verbage that would tell Police that our expired TIP (March 2016) is still valid to drive back to the border on.”

       *grin*
       You can’t find ‘it’, because ‘it’ doesn’t exist.

       The law says you cannot legally drive the TIP car after :
       ~ the related-associated visa has expired
       or
       ~ the TIP has expired.
       .
       .
       Basic TIP & Visa facts:
       ~ A TIP issued using a Visitors visa has the expiration date of the Visitors visa => A maximum of 180 days.

       ~ A Visitors visa CANNOT be renewed.

       ~ The only way to legally drive a vehicle with an expired TIP is to get a 5 business day Retorno Seguro permit from Aduana/Hacienda/SAT.
       .
       .
       When your first Visitor’s visa expired (180 days after entering Mexico):
       ~ the TIP expired
       ~ You drove the car illegally
       and
       ~ Your insurance company can deny covering any accidents & assc. liabilities & damages (up to $4 million pesos of cash owed per accidental death) if they find out you were driving on an expired TIP**
       and
       ~ The police could confiscate your car (permanently) at any point.
       .
       .
       **Fortunate realities:
       ~ The Police rarely check our TIPs, except when entering Yucatan State from Campeche…

       ~ A few insurance companies do not care if your TIP is expired, while others care very much.

       ~ Our insurance agents generally do not know the fine fine print of their policies, and the agents (sales people) tell the gringos “Sure, you are covered, even if you drive the vehicle illegally.”… while the insurance adjustors are the ones who actually know the fine print in the policies.

       ~ You can get a free Retorno Seguro permit (good for 5 business days) when you want to drive out of Mexico… or
       …you can go to the Chetumal border NOW, surrender the old TIP & cancel it out (no fines, no penalties),
       … and when you cancel the old TIP, you can get a fresh shiny NEW TIP using your current INM visa…

       and … then motor around Mexico happily and safely.
       😉

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • DGO says:

         April 2, 2021 at 10:06 pm

         Hello!
         Mexico Mike pointed us in your direction to see if we could get some help. This post was helpful. I think we did all the steps. We were approved for a temp res in Texas. At the border they gave us 30-day tip to match the tr sticker to complete the process. We went to immigration and completed the process, got temp res cards. Asked them about our car and they told us to go to SAT. SAT scrabbled to figure out what to do but shortly afterward, emailed us a form to mail to aduana in Mexico City. We are in Xalapa area. We did that and tracked it to confirm receipt. Never heard anything, mailed them the doc again (NUT on it and copies of tr card), 7 months and haven’t heard anything. Are we supposed to get something back or hear something? No one we’ve asked so far has been able to tell us. Furthermore, aduana near Palenque tried to take our car telling us our car was illegal but if we “tipped” them they would let us go as long as we went to border and took care of it. We persisted that our car was not illegal, eventually found our banjercito form showing we paid to bring the car in and showed them the temp res card again and they said fine go, no “tip” paid. But I’m really trying to be sure that our car is not under threat of being confiscated. Any insight would be so greatly appreciated!! Thank you for your time too.
     • yucalandia says:

       September 22, 2016 at 4:21 pm

       Hi Mark & Laurie,
       “In going through the info on your web site, which included reading all of artical 106; I can’t locate the verbage that would tell Police that our expired TIP (March 2016) is still valid to drive back to the border on.”

       *grin*
       You can’t find ‘it’, because ‘it’ doesn’t exist.

       The law says you cannot legally drive the TIP car after :
       ~ the related-associated visa has expired
       or
       ~ the TIP has expired.
       .
       .
       Basic TIP & Visa facts:
       ~ A TIP issued using a Visitors visa has the expiration date of the Visitors visa => A maximum of 180 days.

       ~ A Visitors visa CANNOT be renewed.

       ~ The only way to legally drive a vehicle with an expired TIP is to get a 5 business day Retorno Seguro permit from Aduana/Hacienda/SAT.
       .
       .
       When your first Visitor’s visa expired (180 days after entering Mexico):
       ~ the TIP expired
       ~ You drove the car illegally
       and
       ~ Your insurance company can deny covering any accidents & assc. liabilities & damages (up to $4 million pesos of cash owed per accidental death) if they find out you were driving on an expired TIP**
       and
       ~ The police could confiscate your car (permanently) at any point.

       ~ Finally, you did not ‘renew’ your Visitante visa… INM only issues you NEW Visitante visas when the old ones expire.

       Only Residente Temporal visas can be renewed.
       .
       .
       **Fortunate realities:
       ~ The Police rarely check our TIPs, except when entering Yucatan State from Campeche…

       ~ A few insurance companies do not care if your TIP is expired, while others care very much.

       ~ Our insurance agents generally do not know the fine fine print of their policies, and the agents (sales people) tell the gringos “Sure, you are covered, even if you drive the vehicle illegally.”… while the insurance adjustors are the ones who actually know the fine print in the policies.

       ~ You can get a free Retorno Seguro permit (good for 5 business days) when you want to drive out of Mexico… or
       …you can go to the Chetumal border NOW, surrender the old TIP & cancel it out (no fines, no penalties),
       … and when you cancel the old TIP, you can get a fresh shiny NEW TIP using your current INM visa…

       and … then motor around Mexico happily and safely.
       😉

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 22, 2016 at 4:26 pm

       The issue of driving in Q. Roo with expired foreign registration / expired plates with no TIP all depends on the police officer you encounter.

       If that police officer knows the rules, then you can be fined (and possibly have the vehicle impounded) for driving on expired foreign registration.

       Many police have only 2-3 days training … and do not know the laws, so relying on gringo’s past experiences does not guarantee that you will never meet a police officer who knows the rules.

       It’s all up to your level of comfort with the risks & consequences of driving an illegal vehicle. …
       ???

       Sidelights:
       Many USA-nians are hyper-critical of Mexicans who go to the USA and break US laws…

       Fortunately, Mexicans are not as critical of law-breakers (aka criminals) as USA-nians.
       *grin*

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • Mark says:

         September 23, 2016 at 6:03 pm

         Hello Steve
         Please allow me to restate my previous questions regarding expired foreign registration/plates;
         …you stated **we can go to the Chetumal border NOW, surrender the old TIP & cancel it out (no fines, no penalties); then we can get a fresh shiny NEW TIP using our current INM visa…… then motor around Mexico happily and safely.
         you replied to me: **The issue of driving in Q. Roo with expired foreign registration / expired plates all depends on the police officer you encounter, and their actual knowledge of the laws.
         Can we drive OUTSIDE Q.Roo, like going all the way back to Brownsville; on a Current Valid TIP with expired foreign registration / expired plates?
         If we have a new (current) TIP and STAY INSIDE Q.Roo; can we drive (the 180 days) with expired foreign registration / expired plates as I have read about on your website? I also read that your plates/registration must be current in Q.Roo if you have an “Expired TIP (or “No TIP).
         Lastly, is a point my wife brought to my attention about our current plates being expired this past Nov. 2015. Will they require current registration proof from me when getting the New TIP, even though I have the original title? If they do require current registration/plates, then I suppose my above two questions are mute?
         Thanks again
         Mark & Laurie
       • yucalandia says:

         September 25, 2016 at 7:34 am

         Hi Mark,
         “Can we drive OUTSIDE Q.Roo, like going all the way back to Brownsville; on a Current Valid TIP with expired foreign registration / expired plates?”

         Yes, as long as you don’t drive in either of the Californias (not Baja nor Baja Sur).
         .
         .
         “If we have a new (current) TIP and STAY INSIDE Q.Roo; can we drive (the 180 days) with expired foreign registration / expired plates as I have read about on your website?”

         Practically, yes, you can – as many people do. … We have heard of zero cases of this happening in 14 years of tracking this, as the rule on keeping registrations current is only stipulated for foreign-plated cars with no TIP.
         .
         .
         “Will they require current registration proof from me when getting the New TIP, even though I have the original title?”

         No, they have approved TIPs for many many foreign-plated vehicles with expired plates.

         Happy Trails,
         steve
574. Terri says:

     September 22, 2016 at 5:09 pm

     I’m going to put my two cents worth in again, in case it helps anyone, including the current poster. We also drove into Mexico arriving in Merida on September 6, 2015, and our TIP was good for only 30 days. We did not have a tourist visa, though…we had the six-month visa that required us to report to immigration in order to get a valid residente temporal card. Not only that, but since we applied for temporary residency status, which I think invalidated the TIP anyway. The TIP of course, expired after 30 days, and I had signed an agreement to remove the car from Mexico before the 30 days was up (the car was in my name only). We didn’t do that though, because I wasn’t looking forward to driving all the way back to Texas, and a week after we arrived I came down with Chikungunya, and there were so many other things going on…Anyway, I did drive the car around town now and then so it wouldn’t freeze up, even though it was illegal. When it finally came time to get rid of the car…because we HAD to do something about it… I also had read on Steve’s website all about the different ways to dispose of the car. Taking it to try to sell in Belize seemed really iffy to me, and to tell you the truth, I did check out about donating the car to Hacienda (they said no), and trying to part it out (I checked that with Banjercito and they said no). So, we had to remove the car from Mexico.

     In about April of this year (2016) I went to Hacienda to apply for a Retorno Seguro, but by then the rules had changed, which I had read on this website, Steve…and I didn’t get much help there. In fact, the form that was supposed to be filled out online they couldn’t locate on the computers where they have the common computer room that people can use there. I left Hacienda without getting anything done. I had gone to Hacienda months before to ask about it, and there was a different area to apply for the Retorno Seguro, but when I returned, it was now in a different part of the building where you had to apply. We decided to go back to Plan A, which was shipping it out of Progreso to Florida. We had to return to Colorado anyway for personal reasons, and we had previously thought about driving back to Texas and selling the car there, or driving it all the way back to Colorado – and I did not want to do that long drive again. So we ended up shipping it out of Progreso to Florida, driving the car to Colorado, and eventually selling the car in Colorado. If you ship it out of Progreso, you can get the TIP cancelled at Banjercito there in Progreso by Angie – she is a very nice. Make sure you keep the cancellation paperwork FOREVER she said!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 23, 2016 at 4:55 pm

       Excellent report!
       Thanks!

       steve

       Reply
575. RL Gerber says:

     October 29, 2016 at 8:30 am

     Hi Steve, I am flying out of PDX tomorrow for a 10 day visit.

     1) My wife (Mexican citizen) and girls (dual USA/MEX citizens) are living in AGS and the girls are in primaria there.

     2) We have purchased (in her name as I am in ORE for a year while we transition) a home in a coto, and have another renta11thl.

     3) I have a Permanente Residente visa in my passport from the PDX MEX Consular.

     4. I imported a non-nafta TIP vehicle (Volvo) in July in my name. My wife will make a shopping trip to Texas in January. That is a whole other issue.

     I am confused on what my steps through Aduanas should be, given I have my visa. Do I have time on a 10 day visit to complete necessary paperwork, appointment, etc. Can I wait on the paperwork until I move FT. Yes, I plan on working once I move, I hope for Nissan. You may remember me from Mexconnect.

     Thanks, Guero

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 29, 2016 at 7:44 pm

       Hi RL,
       You wrote:
       …
       “3) I have a Permanente Residente visa in my passport from the PDX MEX Consular.”

       Please know that this is not possible (no existe) because Consulates cannot and do not issue Residency visas. Consulates only START the residency visa process, including putting a special 1 time stamp in your passport that authorizes you to enter Mexico for just 30 days under a special CANJE process – where you MUST go to your local INM office to complete the application process for a Residente visa.

       Consulates only do pre-approvals, as a first step in the Residency visa process.

       Because of this, when you left Mexico last time, IF you had a visitors visa, then you were supposed to take the TIP car out of Mexico when you left.

       As things stand, by applying for a Permanent Residency visa, your old prior visa associated with the TIP has been CANCELLED … which means the TIP Volvo is in Mexico illegally. ….

       Hopefully, your Mexican insurance company allows you to drive illegal vehicles. … because some Mexican insurance companies invalidate the policies – denying coverage if you get in an accident, when they find out the vehicle is illegal. Your salesperson insurance agent may not know this, as it may be buried deep in tons of fine print of your insurance contract.

       The legal thing to do is to park the TIP vehicle, and when you get your RP visa from INM, then contact Aduana, order a free Retorno Seguro permit that gives you 5 business days to legally drive the vehicle out of the country. At a border you can cancel the old TIP (forfeiting the prior cash bond you paid – as you broke the contract with Aduana/Banjercito)…. 😦

       see our main webpage on Importing and Driving Cars in Mexico and find RETORNO SEGURO permits in the Table of Contents at:

       Importing & Driving a Car in Mexico

       At the border, YOU cannot get another TIP… and because the Volvo is not NAFTA made, you cannot bring it back into Mexico as a Residente Permanente. 😦

       If your wife drives the Volvo to Texas, (with the expired/cancelled TIP), she may not be able to re-enter Mexico with it, if Aduana or Banjercito checks the TIP in their records.
       😦

       Maybe she plans to drive it to the Texas border, cancels the TIP to clean up your computer database record with Aduana & Banjercito (to avoid future problems) … avoid all accidents in the meantime … and when in Texas, find a buyer … or hand it over to a dealer to sell … or trade it in for a good NAFTA-made vehicle (8 – 9 years old by Nov 1) that your wife can permanently import into Mexico. The customs brokers (a necessity) are charging $2,000 – $3,000 for import fees….
       😦

       Going back to your RP visa process requirements:
       The special stamp that the Mex. Consulate put in your passport is good for only 180 days … so you must enter Mexico within that time… and once in Mexico you have 30 days to go to your local INM office to continue the RP visa application process.

       I sure wish I had better news for you…
       steve

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         October 29, 2016 at 7:49 pm

         RL,
         There was another visa option open to you as the registered spouse of a Mexican, also available because you have Mexican citizen children.

         That other fast easy option was/is the Vinculo Familiar option (see article above).

         As a family member of a Mexican, you could apply for a Residency visa (Temporal for 2 years) from INSIDE Mexico at your local INM. That RT visa also would allow you to keep the TIP Volvo in Mexico (by making a simple quick trip to the Belize border at Chetumal to cancel the old TIP and pay for a new TIP – good for the 2 years of the RT visa from the Vinculo Familiar process.

         If your current plans don’t work out… you could consider this option.
         ??
         steve
576. Don Saigle says:

     November 4, 2016 at 2:05 pm

     Hi Steve

     Well, onto part two of the process to complete the ‘Residencia Temporal’. We’ve arrived in MX Nov. 01, online form filled out with the Instituto Nacional de Migracion and will be off to our local INM office on Monday. We also have a 30 day TIP for the vehicle, but can’t seem to locate an address to send paper work to extend expiry date once INM issues the NUT. Can you provide an address and contact name for Aduana? Thanks – we’re in the Puerto Vallarta area.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 5, 2016 at 7:34 am

       Hi Don,
       Does PV have an Aduana office?

       For people who don’t have a local Aduana office …. who use the mail: It’s a Mexico City address… listed over in our main article on bringing cars into Mexico at:

       Importing & Driving a Car in Mexico

       Here is a pdf form from Aduana/SAT – on page 41 – to officially inform them of the change in your INM permit’s expiration date – note that it loads very slowly.
       ftp://ftp2.sat.gob.mx/aduanas/2012/vehiculos/Manual_importacion_temporal_vehiculos.pdf

       Administración General de Aduanas
       Administración Central de Operación Aduanera
       Administración de Operación Aduanera “3”
       Av. Hidalgo No. 77, Módulo IV, 1° piso, Del. Cuauhtémoc
       Col. Guerrero, C.P. 06300, México D.F.

       Be sure to have your extension request ARRIVE at an Aduana office before 15 days after you receive your INM permit renewal, which also needs to be 15 days BEFORE your TIP permit expires (to give Aduana time to notify Banjercito to NOT confiscate your $$ deposit)

       If your TIP extension request does not arrive at Aduana 15 days before the TIPs expiration, Banjercito may confiscate your deposit (because Aduana can be slow in notifying Banjercito)…

       Good Luck!
       steve

       Reply

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580. Rocky Barba says:

     December 15, 2016 at 6:30 pm

     Hello Steve!!!!!!! THIS BLOG IS MARVELOUS!
     Im an a US Citizen living in Oklahoma, I recently got the 1 time stamp to continue the process in Mexico to get Residencia Temporal
     I will be living in Tijuana with my mexican fiancé. I already got a job on San Diego and They are waiting for me to start working on Jan 16th 2017, the problem is that I will be arriving to Tijuana on January the 2nd, and I MUST leave the country to start my job (they will not hold that job for me if I dont show up on that day and start working) I know about the permit that allows me to exit and re entry the country but I wanted to ask you about it:

     1) If I start the CANJE process and I leave by the 15th of January (with the permit granted to do so), the processing of my RT will still continue while I am gone? or it will be paused while I’m in the USA? Can my fianceé pick up my card or attend notifications from TIJUANAS INM WHILE I AM GONE?

     To sumarize; I can only be in Tijuana, Mexico from Jan 2nd 2017 to Jan 15th 2017 because I need to start working in San Diego ( when I get my TR card I will be pedestrian crossing every day ) I will turn in all the paper work while I am in Tijuana and get the permit to exit and re entry the country…. I need to know if it’s possible that while I am working in San diego, my processing will continue….so I can get back to my fiance in Tijuana when the card is ready to be picked up.
     thats the only way I see to keep both : my job and the chance to get my RT.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 15, 2016 at 9:17 pm

       Hello Rocky,
       Yes, your plan seems fine.

       Note that the INM offices are likely closed until Jan 1 for the Holidays, so there may be a bit of an unusual backlog of work/applicants at the INM office on their first day back at work.

       Clearly, you will need to go in to sign the form for when they approve your visa. That signature you sign after the visa is approved, then is transferred to your new RT card, and that approval & signing can take anywhere from 1 week to 2 months depending on the particular INM office. Ours has been doing them in about 2 weeks here in Merida.

       Ask your Tijuana office for details.

       Happy Holidays,
       steve
       We understand that you need to be the one who g

       Reply
     • RC says:

       December 16, 2016 at 9:35 am

       Rocky, you should be ok without it, but of course it makes sense and you should have it. There generally is no exit migration at either crossing in SD (meaning you have to make the effort to go in an get your exit stamp). Depending when/where you cross coming back in to Mexico you will not encounter immigration. Again you have to physically go in yourself. I have heard that they are now checking pedestrians, but vehicles only pass through customs and you are highly unlikely to encounter an INM agent. Ive talked to two when I went in to get my stamps and they both said it wasn’t necessary if I was coming back and forth at “this crossing”. I explained my situation and they agreed and gave me the stamp but said basically if you are crossing just locally, don’t worry about it. I know that is not “official law” but just make a judgement call. you will see. Ive crossed at some more remote spots and the INM agent seemed like he had never even seemed a RT/RP card… My lawyer said that the entry/exit permit takes about 5 work days to get…

       Reply
581. Rocky Barba says:

     December 16, 2016 at 9:29 am

     Thanks Steve!
     one more thing!!! Could you please explain me a little more about the “canje” process?

     I understand that first step is to turn in the paperwork (show stamp, passport, pictures, electronic form etc) ….. then will they give me another appointment to get my fingerprints, right? and also I should go to sign the approval? ….

     ok…. do you think that me going back to the USA because of job is enough reason to get the exit/re-entry permit?…

     Thanks again!

     happy hollidays for you too.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 17, 2016 at 7:25 am

       Hi Rocky,
       You enter Mexico & have 30 days to log-in at the INM website (use the Canje options) and fill out the fields of your information in their website. Then you take the information from completing your INM web-application with you to your INM office.

       The INM logs you in, checks your documents … they give you a document to take to a bank to pay for your Residente Visa, and then it’s a 1 week to 2 month wait until they notify you to return to the INM office to sign papers & get your card. Each INM office is doing things slightly differently, so we hesitate to tell you exactly how your local INM office is doing things.

       Pretty much ANY reason is justification to go back to the USA while they are processing your application.

       Happy Trails …
       and Happy Holidays to you,
       steve

       Reply
582. Teo says:

     January 4, 2017 at 10:22 pm

     Hi Steve,

     Thanks for all the information you’ve been so generously sharing. I’m hoping you can help me with a couple questions that I couldn’t find the answers to in your articles.

     My wife and I moved to San Miguel de Allende with Temporary Resident Canje stamps last week, and we will be starting the Canje process within the next few days. In February, we’re planning a multi-leg trip to spend a week in Texas, then a week in Tulum, then a weekend in Texas before returning to San Miguel.

     It’s my understanding that we should be able to apply for an exit/re-entry permit as soon as we start the local INM part of the process, and that permit should be ready for us before our trip in February. Can that permit be used to exit and re-enter Mexico multiple times? Do you think we would have any issues exiting and re-entering Mexico after the Tulum portion of our trip? Also, will flying in and out of the country like this affect the TIP for the vehicle we drove down?

     In the spirit of information sharing, you may find it interesting that we were able to get a 180 day TIP by applying online (https://www.banjercito.com.mx/registro-vehiculos/) ahead of time using electronic pre-authorization (https://www.inm.gob.mx/sae/publico/en/pre-autorizacion.html). That might help some of your readers get around the 30 day limitation when entering Mexico via a Canje stamp.

     Cheers!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 5, 2017 at 7:36 am

       Hi Teo,
       Yes, you should apply for the exit/re-entry permit at least 3 – 5 business days before you plan to travel.

       Note that they may have your visa ready in 3 – 4 weeks (?)

       Thanks for the good updates!
       steve

       Reply
583. Linda Leonrd says:

     January 5, 2017 at 2:56 pm

     For Canadians who have permanent residency in Mexico, we have so far had to fill out the same tourist form as everyone else, and report to get it stamped at the immigration office in the airport when we want to leave Mexico, and use the same form, to fill out on the plane, when we return to Mexico. Does the new regulation from May 2016 say that we don’t need to do this anymore? or am I mis-reading it?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 5, 2017 at 8:08 pm

       What new INM regulation is there?

       I flew just 2 months ago & friends flew 1 month ago, and we were all required to follow the Nov. 2012 INM rules.

       When a foreigner with a Mexican residency leaves Mexico, since 2012, we fill out both halves of the FMM just before we leave.

       INM inspects both halves, and keeps the ‘Salida’ ~ Exit half, and they hand you the ‘Entrada’~entry half to use when you return/re-enter Mexico.

       We have seen no changes to the Ley de Migracion…

       Can you cite a referencee for your proposed change?
       ??
       steve

       Reply
584. Linda Leonrd says:

     January 5, 2017 at 8:20 pm

     Drat- I can’t find the right website at the moment, but here is a quote: With the purpose of facilitating and promoting travel to Mexico, effective May 2016 all those foreign nationals, regardless of their nationality, visiting Mexico for tourism, business or transit are NOT required to obtain a Mexican visa IF they hold a valid (non-expired) Visa or Permanent Residence of any of this countries: United States of America, Canada, Japan, United Kingdom or Schengen area (European Union).

     Evidently this became effective in May, 2016. This info resulted in several people wondering if we no longer need the tourist card and “checking out” with immigration before we leave Mexico. But I think this is referring to people with perm res in the US. Which is the correct interpretation.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 6, 2017 at 7:49 am

       Hey Linda,
       Sure… That’s correct … you do not need a “PRE-APPROVED” visa ….

       You simply continue to follow the Nov 2012 INM law…

       because an FMM form is NOT a visa…
       Never has been, never will be …

       Next: There is NO SUCH THING as a “tourist card“**…

       There have been no ‘tourist cards’ since May 2010. Instead we have FMMs.

       Yes, many mistaken websites & many mistaken expat blogs & forums call the Forma Migracion Multiple (FMM) a ‘visa’ … or they call it a ‘tourist visa’ (no tourist visas since 2012) … because the FMM is NOT a visa… it is just a form.

       and yes, All resident visa holders (like RPs) have to fill out both parts (Exit and Entrance) of the FMM when you exit Mexico, and you have to keep & use the other “Entry” half .. when re-entering Mexico.

       Thanks for clearing up the confusion.

       There has been NO change to INM policies nor to 2012 INM law.
       *grin*

       steve

       Reply
       • sdibaja says:

         January 6, 2017 at 8:35 am

         Steve…. please clarify a little bit:
         ” All resident visa holders (like RPs) have to fill out both parts (Exit and Entrance) of the FMM when you exit Mexico, and you have to keep & use the other “Entry” half .. when re-entering Mexico.”
         I am RP.
         We only cross by land. I have never purchased a FMM, ever.
         I got my first FM in 1996, “graduated” to Inmigrado in 8 years, then a couple years ago purchased the new RP card. I am a true Resident (not a tourist playing a paper game).
         Am I in jeopardy for violating this?
         thanks, Peter in Baja

         PS: my 2017 resolution is to get Citizenship (I have met the qualifications for a long time but never bothered)
585. Linda Leonrd says:

     January 6, 2017 at 7:55 am

     Thanks.

     Reply
586. Rc says:

     January 6, 2017 at 10:09 am

     I was told in TJ by INM that if I am crossing at the land borders only “not to worry” about filling out the forms and stuff. A few times they just said, “I was good”. Only when I insisted on the stamp saying that I was going to fly back in to Mexico they stamped me.

     Also has anyone recently gone through the citizenship process? Can you share your experiences? In particular if you got it based on marriage to a Mexican national?

     Reply
587. lumieretoo says:

     January 7, 2017 at 10:24 am

     Hi Steve, I have had my Permanent Residency for 3 years but just recently got a new Canadian 10 Year Passport. Do I need to inform INM about the new passport number? Thanks.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 7, 2017 at 5:21 pm

       Hi Lumiere,
       We are to notify them of changes in address, jobs, etc, so, yes, it makes sense to notify them of your new passport, so when you go to enter/exit, you don’t have any fuss or feathers over your new passport having a different # than your records in their computer.

       If you choose not to notify them before entering/exiting Mexico, I would carry both the old & new copies of your passport.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
588. Joe says:

     January 7, 2017 at 2:25 pm

     Last time I looked at the immigration laws I could find no reference to how long a person with permanent residency must actually be in and remain in Mexico to keep the status and concluded that, under the present law there was no requirement to spend time in Mexico. Have you heard anything to the contrary, Steve? Recently a friend said you must be here at least six months of each year or lose it. I didn’t think that was true and would like to hear your take on it. Thanks!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 7, 2017 at 5:23 pm

       Hi Joe,
       Your understandings are completely correct: There are no requirements for annual stays.

       These sorts of questions … reveal who knows facts … versus those who just make stuff up, ’cause it sounds good.
       *grin*

       You now know not to trust what your friend says.

       steve

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         January 7, 2017 at 7:43 pm

         That is why April 3, 2016 was such a happy day for me. I never again have to go to the INM office, which means no angry employees can change the rules and make me miserable. Also, I can come and go from Mexico as much as I want, or I can stay the rest of my life with no hassle ever again. Yippeeeee!!!
       • yucalandia says:

         January 8, 2017 at 7:41 am

         YAY !
       • Joe says:

         January 8, 2017 at 4:46 am

         Thanks, Steve!
589. Alan says:

     January 8, 2017 at 11:48 am

     I have entered twice and exited once with a new passport without any comment from the INM people (in Cancun). Apparently they don’t care.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 8, 2017 at 1:42 pm

       Thanks for the good update,
       steve

       Reply
590. David says:

     January 14, 2017 at 1:30 pm

     Wow! You have done an incredible job of providing useful information! I just finished reading through all of the comments…I can’t believe how much time you’ve put into this. Thanks a lot! Some questions if you don’t mind.

     I intend to apply directly for a Residente Permanente by showing adequate retired income or bank balance (I can do both). I am 62. My wife also intends to obtain Residente Permanente but does not have adequate pension income…but, she can show adequate investment balance. She is 57. We do not currently have any Mexican visas/cards. We currently reside in the U.S. and will be applying through the Washington DC consulate and San Miguel de Allende IMM.

     Although we apply for Residente Permanente under the ‘retired/pensioner clause’’, would we be able to work in Mexico for a Mexican employer? Does it make a difference in work privileges if we use the a) income method, or b) investment/bank balance method?

     It seems that showing an adequate investment balance for 12 months has less potential problems that showing an adequate income stream for 12 months. Am I reading that correctly? Does it seem to be acceptable to use statements from an investment company (e.g. Fidelity) for showing the ‘bank’ balance?

     I think the answers are (but appreciate confirmation): Once you have a Residente Permanente card, you can be employed in Mexico no matter what path you take to getting that card. You just need to go online and use your CURP to get your RFC. Using an adequate investment balance has the potential for fewer roadblocks than income stream particularly since one of us is under 60. I’m not sure about the practical acceptance of using statements from an investment company to show an adequate bank balance…

     Best regards and again, thanks for all the excellent work!
     David

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 14, 2017 at 2:58 pm

       Hi David,
       I would go in a slightly different direction for your wife, a route specifically designed for your situation: => “Vinculo Familiar”

       1. You start the RP application process at some Mexican Consulate.

       2. The Consulate approves their step of the process, (preapproval of your RP visa) and the Consulate issues you a one-use special temporary 30 day visa stamp in your US passport (the stamp expires in 6 months from issuance date) to get into Mexico one time.

       3. Go to Mexico within 6 months, (with or without wife), and Mexican INM issues you a special 30 day visa~permit to enter Mexico, for you to go to your local INM office (log into INM online – ‘canje’ options) to continue & complete your RP visa process.

       4. Your wife enters & exits Mexico anytime in the meantime using 180 day Visitante Visas (what other people mistakenly call ‘tourist visas’… there is NO such thing as a tourist visa for Mexico)….

       5. When you get your RP visa card, you then can file at any time for your wife to AUTOMATICALLY qualify for RP visa status, as an immediate family member of a current RP visa holder, using INM’s ‘Unidad de Familia‘ principle, filing under the ‘Vinculo Familiar’ program, described above (see Table of Contents).

       6. When you & wifey have your RP’s, you are given CURP numbers… With an RP and a CURP, you easily get an RFC number from the Mexican Tax authorities: SAT/Hacienda. With your RFC in hand, you notify INM (in writing) that … your life has changed:
       ~ you have a job
       ~ you have a business
       ~ you have a new address
       ~ you have some major life event~change.

       INM records the change, records the RFC number, updates their computer records, and wishes you a nice life.

       Both adequate investment balance and/or monthly income are equally viable proofs of ‘Proof of Personal Fiscal Solvency’…

       I used official statements on investment company letterhead (from the last 3 months => the generic Mexican Gob standard for accepting documents from CFE, JAPAY, banks, etc)…

       All good,
       steve

       Reply
       • D Harding says:

         January 15, 2017 at 7:06 am

         Thanks! That makes sense. David
591. Roger says:

     February 9, 2017 at 4:46 pm

     I am trying to assist a friend to get an appointment at the Orlando Consulate. She has not had any response to her emails and phone messages etc. Anyone in the Orlando area that has contacts to get an appointment for her before she flies there. Also anyone with general information about how long it usually takes to get the visa in her passport.
     Thanks in advance for your kind assistance.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 10, 2017 at 7:04 am

       Hi Roger,
       We have had no prior reports on the Orlando Consulate.

       Some Consulates (poor) systems force the applicant to go in person to the Consulate to start the process ~make appointments.

       Some Consulates do same-day processing, while others take 3-5 days.

       Happy Trials,
       steve

       Reply
592. Roger says:

     February 19, 2017 at 8:04 am

     FYI The Orlando Consulate finally responded by email and gave her an appointment for the following week. She went in late morning and had her Residencia Permanente stamp in her passport by early afternoon.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 19, 2017 at 1:44 pm

       Hi Roger,
       Good Update.

       Sidelight: You know that it is NOT a Residente Permanente stamp in the passport, right?

       It is just a 1-time-use … short~term** … visa stamp, that lets her into Mexico for 30 days for the purpose of going to her local INM office to actually do (and complete) the process of getting a Residente Permanente visa. The Consulate part is just a pre-approval step.

       Also note that:
       **The 1-time stamp is also only valid for 6 months – and that it only gets you 30 days in Mexico, for the purpose of applying for the RP visa at your local INM office.

       Thanks for the report!
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
593. Steve C says:

     February 20, 2017 at 12:28 pm

     Broken link at the top of this page: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByzIMoBRTFBua1FxaXdoWG50QVU/view

     Reply
594. Laurie K. says:

     February 22, 2017 at 12:16 pm

     I own a home in Mexico which I am selling. Fedicomiso in place. I moved back to the USA in 2013 and have not returned to Mexico. My Residente Temporal, issued in 2013 expired in 2014. What is the best way to re-enter Mexico in order to sign the final sale documents? May I enter as a tourist now that the Residente Temporal has expired? I intend to return to the USA after the sale of the home. Thank you profusely in advance

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 22, 2017 at 12:59 pm

       Hi Laurie,
       Yes, you can return as a ‘tourist’, on a 180 day Visitante Visa.

       You have to talk with the Notario handling the sale of your home. You likely have an RFC, to pay taxes on the profits~gains from selling the home.

       Check with your Notario to see if there are complications with trying to sell the home & pay taxes, as a simple visitante visa – with no rights to make money.

       We are not experts on this, but you may have to enter as a Visitante with permission to earn money (lucrative??) ..???

       If the Notario handling the sale is content with your current RFC, CURP, and you having just a ‘tourist’ visitante visa … then GO FOR IT…

       Good luck, and please tell us what your Notario says,
       steve

       Reply
       • Laurie K. says:

         February 22, 2017 at 2:32 pm

         Thank you for your prompt rely. Yes, this is what I had planned to try. Of course I’m aware of the capital gains implications and intend to fully comply. That indeed is another matter entirely, but I am aware of the methods to reduce those capital gains legally. I do have a very good connection in Mexico with a Notario’s former assistant and I plan to use that source to ‘expedite’ the transaction. I’m sure you know exactly what I mean.
         Thank you again for your knowledgeable response. I will update after the transaction.
595. Lindsay says:

     February 24, 2017 at 12:51 pm

     Hi Steve –
     The more research I do, the more uncertain I become about my plan, which is this:

     I am a US citizen. I freelance with US companies on jobs that take place in the US, so I am not concerned at this point with a Mexican work visa.

     I want to move to Mexico with a 180 tourist/visitor’s permit, and renew the permit each time I leave Mexico for the US to work. Ideally I won’t do this more then every few months, but my question is: how many times can I leave and re-enter Mexico via the US and keep getting new 180 day tourist/visitor’s permit before I raise eyebrows or am rejected? I think I’d probably like to apply for the Residente Temporal Visa after a year or so (I want to see how living there goes before going through what sounds like a long and complicated bureaucratic process) – but am wondering if I should do it now to be on the safe side? My biggest fear is that I try to re-enter Mexico after working on a job in the US and they don’t let me back in, thereby separating me from my dog who I am moving to Mexico with me (a whole other complicated process, but it’s all clear enough from my research).

     To be clear, if I cross back into the US, I’d stay for a few days at least, I wouldn’t try to re-enter Mexico on the same day.

     My plan was to go to the Mexican Consulate here in NYC to ask them about this, but from what I’ve read online, it’s not likely they will be helpful. And I can’t find advice about my specific situation (living FT in Mexico and thereby doing most of my spending there, but earning all of my money in the US, and just crossing back and forth as needed).

     Thanks for this blog, it’s an incredible resource.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 25, 2017 at 8:44 am

       Hi,
       Will you be flying or driving?

       If driving, there are procedures for using the same 180d Visitante visa for multiple re-entries, without cancelling the visa and getting a new one each time. Talk with the INM agents at your crossing to find out their preferred method.

       Re multiple uses of serial Visitante Visa:
       There have been a modest number of internet reports (about one a month) from across Mexico of USA (& Canadian) citizens being told by INM agents that they should stop using serial Visitante visas, and instead told to get a Residente Temporal … especially for Permission to WORK.

       Most people are given a warning~caution to get an RT visa, and allowed to continue on their way.

       Working in Mexico is a whole other can of worms. We have had INM agents tell us that working over the internet for a foreign employer, while being paid in a foreign country, is OK.

       Actually doing non-internet work in Mexico does have some minor complications. Read about
       “Business visitor visa: The duration of a business visitor visa can be up to one year and for multiple entries.”

       “Work permit for Mexico

       According to Mexican Immigration Law which came into force on 9 November 2012, foreign nationals who are going to undertake “Lucrative Activities” the Mexican company/Institution must request the work permit at the National Migration Institute in Mexico http://www.inm.gob.mx.

       Visitor to perform lucrative activities in Mexico

       “In the case of visitors entering Mexico to perform lucrative activities, the application for the entry permit is made directly before the National Institute of Immigration by the Mexican party interested in the visit of the foreign national. Foreign artists hired to perform presentations in Mexico as well as foreign nationals hired to work in Mexico request an entry permit from the INM”. (I understand that the process in Mexico it takes approximately 30 days).

       This authority will send you a notification confirming that you have 15 days to come to the Consulate in order to issue the visa. Useful information about requirements and offices addresses of the INM can be found on http://www.inm.gob.mx

       From:.. https://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/reinounido/index.php/es/visas/75

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • cidrni2002 says:

         February 25, 2017 at 2:55 pm

         All good advice from Steve but regards your dog. We have crossed in and out of Mexico multiple times over the past 10 years and have NEVER been questioned at the border regards our dogs and cats by the Mexican Immigration or other entities. Our dogs and cats have been coming back and forth with us for 10 years.However : In theory you are maybe supposed to have valid certificates of vaccination for each animal when you cross back into the U.S. ….. although again, we have NEVER been asked to produce said documents. ( even when on occasion when we are asked to exit the vehicle for the drug dog to sniff, we take our pets out and hold them during this process, nobody says a word or asks for documentation ) Now try to cross with a little bird ( a parakeet a finch or a canary ) and the U.S, side comes unglued and you would think we were trying to bring a nuclear missile into the country …. talk about paranoid. The excuse is they may have avian flu virus, which is just a crock, because that one time scare expired back in 2010. I mean like big parrots. yes that may be an issue, but little birds who never leave their cages. That is just total beaurocratic b.s. Just stuff your little bird in your shirt or purse and say nothing.An amusing anecdote: one time on a shopping trip to the border, I was speeding and a Federale going the other way turned around and chased me down. He had me dead to rights and I was expecting to pay a fine but he was not interested in speed. He just checked all our papers and then inspected the car for any little minor infraction that he could maybe fine us for ( a multa ) and when he found nothing he was kind of disgusted and then he saw our cat in her carrier and got all excited and demanded to see papers for the cat. I told him in Spanish he was crazy ( c’mon give a break, papers for a cat ? ) but he insisted, ” Oh yeah you have to have papers for a cat “Well it so happened that we DID have papers with all up to date shots etc. Boy was that Federale surprised and embarrassed. He got all huffy and told me to get the hell out of there and drove off …. he was pissed because he never got any multa.So there you go …. don’t worry about your dog  Always question authority. It drives those who think they have it insane
       • Lindsay says:

         February 26, 2017 at 9:44 am

         I’ll be flying every time most likely, as I’ll be staying in Southern Mexico and working mostly in NYC and LA. It’s good to hear so far people are just getting warned about multiple re-entries with a visitor’s permit. I’d of course like to apply for the Residente Temporal assuming all goes well, but knowing I can likely wait 6-12 months to do so is a little piece of mind. Thanks again for the help, Steve.
596. Laurie K. says:

     February 25, 2017 at 3:12 pm

     I personally think that kind of attitude towards flaunting the law (it is the law to have updated shot records, etc. for pets) can only lead to a very unfortunate encounter with the authorities. I also do not think it wise to attempt to smuggle ANYTHING into the USA which violates regulations. I hope it doesn’t take an experience with incarceration, or a hefty fine (especially in Mexico) to change that attitude.

     Reply
     • cidrni2002 says:

       February 25, 2017 at 3:37 pm

       Oh give it up already and stop moralising. Did I not say that in you are supposed to have valid certificates but that in actuality nobody ever asks for them ?
       The U.S. yes but show me the law that says pets need vaccination certs. to enter Mexico

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         February 26, 2017 at 8:12 am

         I think the problem is the comment.
         “ Just stuff your little bird in your shirt or purse and say nothing. ”

         As you found with your cat, it’s best to follow rules when crossing borders.
         steve
       • goatwrangler says:

         February 26, 2017 at 9:31 am

         We have been asked when arriving by plane for our proof of rabies vaccine for our cocker spaniel. We have never been asked when driving into Mexico.

         http://www.ranchosolar.com

         >
       • cidrni2002 says:

         February 26, 2017 at 1:35 pm

         With the cat, it wasn’t crossing the border, it was while traveling in Mexico and it wasn’t because the cop knew anything about the law. He was just looking for any excuse to get a few pesosAlso just like rancho solar commented, crossing the border by land is totally different than coming in by air. They never ask when coming in by land and even though they ask when arriving by air, I don’t really think there is a specific law requiring it. Always question authority. It drives those who think they have it insane
597. goatwrangler says:

     March 14, 2017 at 11:32 pm

     The Puerto Vallarta immigration office told my 35 year old daughter that she is to old to apply for permanent residence using Vinculo Familiar.
     So, we can try another office or attempt to educate the PV office. What would you do?

     Reply
     • Panamarayan says:

       March 14, 2017 at 11:48 pm

       Well if she is applying through you being a RP, then yes she is too old to apply. I believe the limit is like 21. Any older you have to prove that they are incapacitated and you care for them. It sounds like she may need to qualify on her own. If she happens to have a mexican child or spouse it should work fine though…

       >

       Reply
       • goatwrangler says:

         March 15, 2017 at 7:46 am

         Hola Steve, I thought you had examples of a 70 year old that was able to get his PR through Vinculo familiar using his wife’s PR status? I have emails from you last year, have the rules changed since then? Thanks, Holly

         http://www.ranchosolar.com

         >
       • Ryan Collins says:

         March 15, 2017 at 8:11 am

         That is possible, but I do not believe that your adult children can derive RP status through your parents if you are over 21.

         For example if your wife is a RP you can derive status from them, I believe RT first then eventually RP.

         >
       • yucalandia says:

         March 17, 2017 at 11:34 pm

         Yes, good friends with a Mexican son in law, and Mexican grandkids were granted RP immediately as family members.
         steve
       • yucalandia says:

         March 17, 2017 at 11:34 pm

         no
     • yucalandia says:

       March 17, 2017 at 11:36 pm

       hmmm… maybe appeal to the delegado of the office.

       Local INM offices are allowed to make up their own local (odd) policies.
       sigh

       Reply
       • goatwrangler says:

         April 9, 2017 at 2:23 pm

         Maybe someone knows the answer to the bizarre question?
         My 35 yr old daughter is headed back to the US. She has been here on an FMM which she has renewed 3 times by flying out of Mexico. She originally arrived in her car 18 months ago and had a TIP. About a year ago she purchased the local license plate good only in Jalisco and Nayarit. She is concerned that once she leaves Mexico, because she allowed her TIP to expire by flying out and not taking the car out, that she will never be allowed to bring the car back in. Is this true? I thought if she puts her CA plates back on the front and back and drives out, they will remove theTIP from her windshield and she may lose the deposit, but I’m not sure about never allowing the car back in.
         Thank you,
       • yucalandia says:

         April 9, 2017 at 3:01 pm

         Hi Isabel,
         If she surrenders the TIP at the border, then “all is forgiven”. … and forgotten.

         Other than losing the deposit, we’ve never heard of Aduana or Banjercito making any negative comments when someone surrenders an expired TIP when exiting Mexico.

         All good,
         steve
598. Bruce McGovern says:

     March 15, 2017 at 1:24 pm

     I got family status several years ago, because my wife is a Mexican citizen. I am now a permanent resident. I was 73, April 3, 2016. 2 days short of 74 when I got RP. But, this was based on my wife’s Mexican citizenship.

     Reply
599. David H says:

     March 19, 2017 at 2:11 pm

     It’s been mentioned briefly, but I was hoping to get some clarification… When you are renting a place to stay in Mexico and then go to INM for your RP (after going through the Consulate step, of course), what sort of letter is needed from the landlord? Is there a format or details of information required? Is the letter AND a copy of the landlord’s utility bill required? Thanks!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 1, 2017 at 12:13 am

       Hi David,
       there is no standard letter.

       Just write a letter in Spanish, listing your name, your visa number, your passport, the landlord’s name, their IFE card number, copies of both sides of their IFE card, the address of the rental, documentation of the lease, and a comprabante (like a CFE bill).

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
600. David says:

     March 31, 2017 at 12:55 pm

     The Mexican Consular Section in Washington, DC issued a Permanent Resident (retiree) visa to me today. The Consulate Visa office and staff were friendly, professional, and efficient. It took one visit of 20 minutes duration. I had complied with all of the requirements found on their web page, had pre-filled out the Application Form, and had made an appointment using their appointment web page. The very nice, bilingual lady who processed the application and gave me my completed passport back also gave me 1) a sheet showing what I need to bring to INM in Mexico to finish the process, 2) the blank form Formato Básico I will need to complete for INM in Mexico, 3) an example copy of the Forma Migratoria Multiple (FMM) form that I will complete when entering Mexico with highlights and arrows making sure that I very clearly understand to mark the “CANJE” option in two places on the form, and 4) a booklet in Spanish with a variety of traveling information including the addresses and phone numbers for the INM offices. She was very emphatic about marking CANJE on the FMM form; that suggests that they have had problems with that in the past. I’d say they really have their act together at the Washington Mexico Consular Section. The next step is to go to Mexico and finish the process and get my Permanent Resident permit.

     Here are web pages for the items I mentioned.

     Washington DC Mexico Consular Section requirements: https://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/washington/index.php/visas/15-informacion/187-visas-aviso-nov2012-sp-478025424

     Application Form: https://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/washington/images/stories/DOC/visas/solicitudingles2.pdf

     Washington DC Mexico Consular Section appointment page: https://seccionconsularwashington.youcanbook.me/

     Sheet showing what is needed at INM Mexico when applying for PR: http://www.gob.mx/tramites/ficha/expedicion-de-documento-migratorio-por-canje/INM811

     Form to be used at INM Mexico when applying for PR: http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/pdf/Formato_Basico.pdf

     Copy of information booklet: http://www.gob.mx/cms/uploads/attachment/file/203610/Guia_Paisano_SS_2017.pdf

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 31, 2017 at 11:48 pm

       wow…

       Great Updaten !

       Reply
601. Sharon Hilliard says:

     April 3, 2017 at 11:10 am

     So much great info. We will be driving back to the US soon and have a few questions since this
     will be the first return to the US after getting our RP and RT visas. Do we get the FMM forms at
     the INM office here in PV before leaving or do we get them at the border? Do they remove the
     sticker from our car at the border or leave it on since we will be driving back down in a few months
     to renew my husband’s RT, which the car is tied to? What is needed for our dog and cat? I understand that it is just a certficate from their vet here in Mexico confirming their rabies
     vaccinations. If we want to drive a different vehicle on our next trip down, what is the process?
     Thank you.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 6, 2017 at 3:21 pm

       Here’s a link to some background information on bringing pets into Mexico:

       Updated Antiparasitic Treatment Rules for Pets Entering Mexico

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • Sharon Hilliard says:

         April 10, 2017 at 8:08 am

         Our pets are already here in Mexico. My question was in regard to returning to the US.
         Also, on returning to the US , do we get the FMM forms at the border? And, is the
         sticker on our vehicle removed at the border or do they leave it in place since we will
         be returning to Mexico in a couple of months to renew my husband’s RT visa?
         Thanks, Sharon
602. Jeff says:

     April 6, 2017 at 10:09 pm

     I have a residente permanente card, but no CURP. How do I get a CURP?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       April 7, 2017 at 5:39 am

       Hi Jeff,
       INM issues a CURP to everyone who has either a Residente Permanente or Residente Temporal visa.

       The CURP is generally listed below your DOB on the RP visa card.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • sdibaja says:

         April 7, 2017 at 8:32 am

         to print a card go here https://consultas.curp.gob.mx/CurpSP/inicio2_2.jsp
       • yucalandia says:

         April 7, 2017 at 9:56 pm

         yep

         That’s a dandy link …

         one that is already included on our list of about 50 useful Mexican websites, here:
         https://wordpress.com/page/yucalandia.com/5755

         Happy Trails,
         steve
603. Roger says:

     April 21, 2017 at 11:45 am

     Has anyone gone to the CURP site to print a CURP card and found a PDF file that looks more like a full page document? https://www.consultas.curp.gob.mx/CurpSP/inicio2_2.jsp rather than the usual green CURP cards that were printing last month.

     Reply
604. David Harding says:

     May 26, 2017 at 3:50 pm

     It took 12 calendar days to get a permanent resident card at INM Querétaro in May 2017. I started the process at the Washington, DC Embassy…see my earlier entry for that. My application was based on retiree status. I did not have any earlier residence status. If you are using any other approach, you may have different timelines/experience. However, I talked to a U.S. expat who recently got a temporary resident permit for work purposes in about the same amount of time at Queretaro INM.

     Day 1: At 9am, stopped at a photographer at around the corner from INM and spent 15 minutes getting photos for 100 pesos. Then to a facilitator who was about 50 yards from INM. She corrected errors in my forms (retyped) and made some forms/copies that were missing. She printed the form for paying the fee at a bank. Then to INM and take a number from the receptionist. The number counter on the wall shows when it’s your turn. My number comes up, I go to the open window and the clerk and I quickly realize I speak little Spanish and she doesn’t speak English. She turns to the young male clerk at the window next to her, and he says he’ll take me next. He speaks excellent English. He was the only young man working behind the counters whenever I was there. He goes through my paperwork and tells me what is missing from my letter and other things. Then to the bank to pay the fee. Then back to the facilitator. She retypes the letter with the additional information, updates another form, and makes copies. Total for both visits is 210 pesos. I go back to INM, again get a number, sit near the front, and the young man sees me and calls me as soon as he is free. Everything was OK this time. He gives me a form to bring back the next time and tells me to watch my email for instructions to return for fingerprints. The email will also have a link to an online form to fill out before returning. I finished about 1pm. They close the doors at 1pm but they service everyone who is inside. You can’t enter after 1pm. By the way, they have a bathroom available to customers. I would have had my coffee before going if I had known that in advance!
     Later the same day I received an email from INM saying I had been registered and a web link, user number, and password for checking status and nest-step instructions. The web site also gives your NUT and NUE. I checked the website and at that time it basically just says I’ve been registered with INM.

     Day 2: At 5pm I receive the next email from INM. It basically just says “go check the website”. The website had a link to a form and a link to a formal letter with a lot of legalese. I forwarded the letter to the facilitator and she told me it meant I could now go in for fingerprints. The email/website/letter doesn’t specifically say ‘return for fingerprints’ that I can tell! Next I completed the online form which was fairly simple. It asks for a lot of the data I gave at the embassy and at the first day at INM, so I presume it’s important to be consistent in your answers.

     Day 3: I go back to INM with the form they asked me to return with, and my passport, take a number again, wait for the young man to call me, sign a few forms, and get fingerprinted. He says that my card will be ready to pick up in 5 business days! It was ready the next business day!

     I highly recommend using a facilitator that is close by. I used Silvia Legorreta. She has an office a short distance down the street from INM. She is a one-person shop, so it would be good idea to contact her the day before to arrange a meeting time. Phone: +(52)55-5682-0076, +(52)55-5682-7876, or +52(442)212-7646. SLEGORRETA@migracionglobal.com.

     Here is a list of items that were required, however, it could change. Have original and two B&W copies of each item:
     -A letter in Spanish addressed to the INM requesting resident permanente
     -Formato Basico
     -Formato para solicitar tramite migratorio de estancia
     -Forma Migratoria Multiple (FMM) that you get when you entered the country
     -Passport
     -Bank receipt for fee payment
     -2 front photographs and one side photograph
     -B&W copy of permanent resident visa in your passport

     Here is the verbiage of the letter that finally worked for me. Insert your details at the blanks.
     ———————————————————————————————————————————
     Querétaro, Qro. a _(date)_ de ____(month)____ de 20__

     SECRETARIA DE GOBIERNO
     INSTITUTO NACIONAL DE MIGRACION
     DELEGACION FEDERAL EN QUERETARO
     PRESENTE

     Distinguido Delegado,

     Por medio de la presente yo, ___(your name in CAPS in full like: JOHN PAUL JONES)____, solicito una tarjeta de Residente Permanente ya que vine a México porque estoy jubilado y solicité una VISA de RESIDENTE PERMANENTE en la Embajada de Washington, D.C. y me la otorgaron.

     Adjunto copia de los documentos solicitados para éste trámite y le agradezco de antemano la atención prestada a la presente, esperando contar con el otorgamiento del cambio de condición de estancia.

     Bajo protesta de decir verdad.

     Atentamente,

     (Sign your full name)

     ___(YOUR FULL NAME IN CAPS)____
     (Address in México)
     (Telephone number)
     Correo Electrónico: ____(youremail) _____
     ———————————————————————————————————————————-

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       May 26, 2017 at 3:57 pm

       THANKS for the superb update, with all the pertinent details.

       Well Done !
       steve

       Reply
605. David Harding says:

     May 26, 2017 at 5:42 pm

     Oh, one other comment about INM Queretaro. They did not issue a CURP to me with the RP card. It is not on the RP card nor on any paperwork I received. I don’t think I’ll need one for a while, but wanted to mention it. I’ll go back and get it when I need it.

     Reply
     • markemmer says:

       May 26, 2017 at 6:09 pm

       I’ve only needed the CURP twice. Once when obtaining a Michoacán driver’s license, and once when applying for an RFC (tax number). I needed the RFC to open a bank account and to obtain facturas from various famacias and medical providers for an insurance reimbursement. No RFC –> no factura. No factura –> no reimbursement (simple cash registers receipts are not acceptable to my medical insurance company). I also see the RFC on my auto and home insurance policies, so if you’re setting up a life in Mexico, an RFC is a good thing to have.

       Looking at the website to get your RFC, it now appears that you can do it without a CURP. Give it a try here, using the NUE and the number on the back of your newly minted green card. https://www.siat.sat.gob.mx/PTSC/

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         May 27, 2017 at 6:58 am

         Nice
       • David Harding says:

         May 30, 2017 at 4:00 pm

         Check out this page about RFC: http://satgobmx.com/rfc/
         Part of it says that, if you don’t have a CURP, you start the process for getting a RFC online, but you have to finish the process by going to a SAT office and present your birth certificate and immigration document.
         I did try to go through the online process but got bogged down in some selections where none of the selections applied to me and I cancelled out of it. I’m not too worried. I will just get my CURP from INM and then use the online process to get a RFC is supposedly easier with the CURP. Thanks anyway!
       • markemmer says:

         May 30, 2017 at 4:23 pm

         Thanks for clarifying that the process cannot be completed entirely online without a CURP. With a CURP, I found the page easy to complete and have it generate a PDF that I could save and print out with the RFC card on it. I cut out the card and wrote my address, phone number and e-mail on the back before having it put in plastic to carry in my wallet. The info on the back is handy when dealing with a receptionist who wants it for their files or for a factura they will produce and e-mail you. Much easier than dictating it each time.

         Having INM assign a CURP seems to be hit and miss in different offices. Most get it automatically, but I’ve known others where like you, they neglected to do it, requiring an additional trip back.

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608. work from home says:

     July 18, 2017 at 2:25 am

     I am really thankful to the owner of this website who has shared this great article
     at here.

     Reply
609. James Haselwood says:

     August 18, 2017 at 1:39 pm

     We plan on starting the Residante Pemanante process at the Detroit Consulate this fall. Our plan is to drive to Mexico in November for a few weeks, fly home for the holidays, and then fly back, staying until April.
     My question is If I start the RP process in October, can I enter Mexico in November on a Tourist visa and finish the Mexican part of the RP process in January when I return? Or will they see the visa that the Consulate will put in my passport and thus only give me a 30 day visa? In which case, should I wait and start the process in December when I’m home for the holidays? And is 3 weeks sufficient to complete the Consulate process in the U.S.?
     Jim

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 18, 2017 at 7:30 pm

       No.
       As written above:
       “Once your passport has the special visa stamp (shown here), you have 180 days to enter Mexico before the stamp expires.  As you enter Mexico,  be sure to check that INM ONLY gives you a 30 day visa.   If they give you a 180 day visa,  THAT IS A BIG MISTAKE.  Do NOT enter with a 180 day tourist-visitante visa, as that cancels your Residency process … and forces you to go back to the Consulate in the USA and start all over.”

       If you want to come to Mexico after starting either the RT or RP process at a Consulate, then you must enter Mexico within 6 months, and continue the visa application process at your local INM office within 30 days of entering Mexico. … As also described above, if you have to leave Mexico while INM is processing your visa application, then you go to your INM office with a formal letter requesting permission to leave Mexico. INM will have you come back to the office (typically in 3 -5 business days) to pick up an INM permission letter that allows you to leave Mexico temporarily and return, using the letter as a temporary visa.

       Does that make sense?
       steve

       Reply
610. Hilal says:

     August 23, 2017 at 2:11 pm

     Hi everyone,

     Im from Turkey and currently living in Mexico City with a tourist visa. I’m 26 and I’m an industrial engineer. I want to work here so if the companies are not willing to pay for me to get work permit, what do I have to do to get it by myself? How much should I pay for it? What kind of documents I need to prepare? totally how long does it take to get work permit? And what kind of problems could be during this process?( hopefully not)
     If anyone can help me with my questions I’ll be really appreciated.

     Thanks
     Hilal

     Reply
611. yucalandia says:

     August 24, 2017 at 8:00 am

     Hi Hillal,
     There is no such thing as a work permit that you can buy here.

     As described in the article above you can work if you get a Residente Permanente visa, or you can get a Residente Temporal Visa with permission to work. (There is a 6 mo. Visitor’s visa with permission to work, but that visa is very limited & unusual).

     Read the sections on how to get these visas to know the requirements – as the visa applicant pays for their visa fees. Only rarely does an employer pay for an employee’s visa to live in Mexico.

     If you choose to get a Residente Temporal visa, then you apply at a Mexican Consulate (outside of Mexico), and to get a Residente Temporal visa with permission to work, you either prove that you are starting a business that meets the Consulates requirements, or you supply a letter from a Mexican employer that says they will hire you to do some job ______, that they will pay you some amount ______, and that your title & work responsibilities will be _________.

     Good Luck,
     steve

     Reply
     • Bruce McGovern says:

       August 24, 2017 at 9:42 am

       I do not wish to comment on the legal issues. I live in a small mountain village in the Central HIghlands. Part of my thanks to the community for accepting me is teach free English classes.

       A year ago, I had six young adult students come to weekly English classes, something to do with their licensing requirements. That was six Industrial Engineering students in a technology school in a small town in the mountains. I do not believe there is any shortage of I.E.’s in Mexico that would encourage companies to hire foreigners. I have been wrong before and expect to be wrong again, but I did want to share this observation at this time.

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         August 24, 2017 at 11:24 am

         Big Thumbs up, Bruce !

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614. Louisa Rogers says:

     September 26, 2017 at 10:15 am

     Hi Steve,
     I really appreciate this info! Thanks!
     I live in rural California and in Guanajuato. I’m hoping to apply for my residencia permanente in Philadelphia in October, when I visit my elderly dad (assuming the PA consulate lets me–I have a call into them). (Because of where I live, it’s easier to do it there than here).
     My problem: I am planning to go to Mexico in late Nov. Because of the Christmas holiday, I’m almost certain I won’t get the final visa by Christmas. Since I will again be visiting my dad around New Year’s, I’ll have to get one of those formal letters allowing me to leave the country. I’d love to bypass all this, so my question is this:
     –Could I enter Mexico in late Nov on a tourist visa (don’t show Immigration the docs from Philly)
     –NOT apply for my permanent visa during the month of December
     –Leave Mexico in late Dec using that same tourist visa
     –Return to Mexico in early January, THEN show my Philly docs at Immigration & get the 30-day visa
     –Go to my local Migracion office in January after the holiday and embark on Phase 2 then?
     Your thoughts?

     Thanks!
     Louisa Rogers

     Thanks

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 26, 2017 at 7:08 pm

       Hi Louisa,
       No, once you start the RP process with any Mexican Consulate, you must use only that special 30 day Visa stamp to enter Mexico to go finish your RP visa process at your local INM office.

       The normal way of handling this would be to start the RP visa process at a Consulate that is willing to give you a Residente Permanente visa. … Some Mex. Consulates are very friendly and helpful allowing anyone who has large enough monthly deposits to apply for RP status, like the Laredo, San Antonio, Phoenix, and Portland Consulates … Houston, Dallas, and all the California Mexican Consulates are real pricks about only allowing retired people with only pension income to qualify. Philidelphia?? … We don’t know…

       If Philly’s Mex. Consulate says “NO” … then you’d come into Mexico anyway with a normal Visitante Visa that you get at the border or airport.

       If the Philly Mex. Consulate says “Yes” … then they put a special visa stamp in your passport that allows you to enter Mexico for 30 days to continue the RP process at your local INM office. … In that case, if you need to travel outside Mexico while your INM office is processing your RP visa, then it’s easy peasy…

       You simply give the INM office a polite letter in Spanish, explaining that you need to travel outside Mexico … state the reason … list your travel dates (along with your name, passport number, the NUT number for your RP visa process, etc) … 3-5 business days later, INM offices then issue you a letter allowing you to travel. You use that INM letter as your visa to exit and re-enter Mexico while they are processing your RP visa card.

       When you return to Mexico, Your local INM office then gives you your RP visa card … and it’s all good.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • Louisa Rogers says:

         September 27, 2017 at 7:01 am

         Hi Steve,
         Thanks for your input. Your message raises another question. Being self-employed, I continue to do contract work from time to time, and I am not 100% retired (don’t know if I ever will be, I like earning!). I am 66, and not planning to collect Social Security til age 70. But I have more than enough in my combined IRA, SEP and other accounts to show that I’m well above the monthly minimum required. I had hoped that would suffice, but it sounds like that may not work, depending on which consulate I go to. (My nearest, San Francisco, is still 6 hours away, which is why I was hoping to apply through Philly). Is this your understanding?
         Louisa
       • yucalandia says:

         September 27, 2017 at 2:40 pm

         From the applicable subsection above:

         Permanent Residency / Residente Permanente Applicants

         Residente Permanente Income or Deposits or Bank Balance Requirements:
         2014 SEGOB/SRE Lineamientos … “Trámite 7 … Visa de Residencia Permanente” … ” Requisitos:” Item IV a, 1 & 2) … http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5363603&fecha=10%2F10%2F2014

         (The INM values for applying from INSIDE Mexico are at Manual/Lineamientos Article 44)

         ~ Documentation of Proof of Financial Independence by Average Bank Balance: Provide the 12 months of original bank statements (plus copies) as proof of income or savings/investments, to show equivalent to 20,000 days minimum wage (73.04 pesos per day for 2016) $1,460,800 pesos or about $84,000 US – according to the 10/10/2014 Lineamientos for Mexican Consulates – where the previous INM Lineamientos listed twenty five thousand days of the general minimum wage in the District Federal for the previous twelve months…
         … Average Monthly Balance of about $84,000 USD (exactly $1,460,800 pesos) at $17.5:1 MXN:USD for Residente Permanente … per 10/10/14 DOF Lineamientos for Mexican Consulates. ”

         “Using Method of Regular Deposits of Income or Pension Receipts: (Residente Permanente)
         ~ Have minimum monthly (investment account or work?) income deposits or pension deposits that are the equivalent of five hundred days worth of the current minimum wage (73.04 for 2016) in the Federal District, for each of the previous six months – with original and copies of original bank statement. This translates to:
         … about $2,100 USD (exactly $36,520 pesos) a month of regular deposits for one Residente Permanente.

         Note 1: Many INM offices are requiring applicant spouses to have bank statements and/or property listed in the spouse’s name. One work-around for this: Have the primary applicant (the person whose name is on the accounts and real estate) get approved first, then have the spouse/dependent file a subsequent application as a family member of the primary Residente Permanente.”
       • Louisa says:

         July 12, 2018 at 10:25 am

         Hi Steve,
         Back again with another question! I didn’t end up applying last year but am now applying for permanent residency, with the Mexican consulate in San Francisco. i own a home in Mexico. Should I mention that (as supporting evidence of financial viability), or avoid mentioning it because all my documentation (title etc.) is in Mexico and I can’t show proof of ownership in the US?
         Thanks! Louisa
       • yucalandia says:

         July 14, 2018 at 12:40 pm

         Hi Louisa,
         Good question.
         Some Consulates like Miami’s, take home ownership & Spanish skills into account, to regularly qualify applicants who do not meet the Residente personal fiscal ‘requirements’ => using their local discretion to approve people who don’t meet the written $$ requirements.

         Do you meet the formal $$ Residente Permanente requirements?

         San Franciso’s Mexican Consulate has had a reputation of being some of the most difficult to work with … They have been one of the Consulates who do not accept just any income or deposits => requiring only retirement pension income.

         Because the San Franciscans have been so narrow & rigid in their previous applications of the law, they likely do not care that you have property, with or without a deed to show them
         steve
615. Don Saigle says:

     October 7, 2017 at 11:22 am

     Hi Steve

     This link doesn’t work for me …. ~ An Example Letter for applying for renewing a Residente Temporal …. can you assist with another, or a copy in your reply? Thanks!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 9, 2017 at 6:32 am

       Hi,
       It’s not a link. It’s designed for a simple cut & paste effort.
       Happy Trails, steve

       Reply
       • Don Saigle says:

         October 9, 2017 at 9:33 am

         Sorry for the confusion …. there is no example letter for renewing a Residente Temporal …. I’ve found examples of other letters for other purposes, but none for the renewal process. Looking for a copy.
       • yucalandia says:

         October 16, 2017 at 7:52 pm

         Here’s a slightly rough version … but if you print it out DOUBLE SPACED in the body of the letter, then your local INM office has room to cross out whatever they don’t like, and then they can add their handwritten changes in between the lines.

         * * * * * * * *

         YOUR CITY and State (e.g. Mérida, Yucatán )
         Fecha:  (ENTER DATE HERE)

         Asunto: Re  Extender la estancia por Expedición de Tarjeta de Residente por Renovación

         Delegado de Merida INM ( enter NAME & ADDRESS OF YOUR INM OFFICIAL)
         Instituto Nacional de Migración Delegación (… Regional en Yucatán for Merida)
         Address of your INM office

         Distinguido Delegado,

         “Por medio de la presente, yo, NAME OF APPLICANT AS SHOWN ON PASSPORT , con pasaporte numero: INSERT PASSPORT ID NUMBER, solicito Extender la estancia por Expedición de Tarjeta de Residente por Renovación, para mi INM tarjeta de Residente Temporal Permanente, Numero: INSERT INM CARD ID NUMBER FROM BACK OF CARD. Adjunto copias de mis comprabantes solicitados para este trámite.

         Bajo protesta de decir verdad.

         Atentamente,
         APPLICANT SIGNATURE – sign here

         Type/enter APPLICANT NAME

         APPLICANT’S ADDRESS

         Tel. domicilio (ENTER HOME PHONE)
         Cel. (ENTER CELL PHONE)

         ================================  

         Happy Trails,
         steve
       • Meshel says:

         October 15, 2017 at 11:32 am

         I am also not finding the sample letter for renewing the residency. Would you mind posting it in the reply? Thanks!
       • yucalandia says:

         October 16, 2017 at 7:51 pm

         Here’s a slightly rough version … but if you print it out DOUBLE SPACED in the body of the letter, then your local INM office has room to cross out whatever they don’t like, and then they can add their handwritten changes in between the lines.

         * * * * * * * *

         YOUR CITY and State (e.g. Mérida, Yucatán )
         Fecha:  (ENTER DATE HERE)

         Asunto: Re  Extender la estancia por Expedición de Tarjeta de Residente por Renovación

         Delegado de Merida INM ( enter NAME & ADDRESS OF YOUR INM OFFICIAL)
         Instituto Nacional de Migración Delegación (… Regional en Yucatán for Merida)
         Address of your INM office

         Distinguido Delegado,

         “Por medio de la presente, yo, NAME OF APPLICANT AS SHOWN ON PASSPORT , con pasaporte numero: INSERT PASSPORT ID NUMBER, solicito Extender la estancia por Expedición de Tarjeta de Residente por Renovación, para mi INM tarjeta de Residente Temporal Permanente, Numero: INSERT INM CARD ID NUMBER FROM BACK OF CARD. Adjunto copias de mis comprabantes solicitados para este trámite.

         Bajo protesta de decir verdad.

         Atentamente,
         APPLICANT SIGNATURE – sign here

         Type/enter APPLICANT NAME

         APPLICANT’S ADDRESS

         Tel. domicilio (ENTER HOME PHONE)
         Cel. (ENTER CELL PHONE)

         ================================  

         Happy Trails,
         steve
616. Don Saigle says:

     October 7, 2017 at 12:25 pm

     and … one other point for clarification. Will I create any problems by starting the on-line renewal process for the Residente Temporal while outside of MX? Trying to get ahead of the curve by doing the on-line step before arriving in country…everything will be within 30 days prior to expiry of the RT

     Reply
     • Don Saigle says:

       October 28, 2017 at 7:41 pm

       gonna answer my own question …. ONLY start the online renewal process if you can attend an INM office within 20 days. Otherwise, back to square one.

       Reply

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618. Earl Lee says:

     October 25, 2017 at 12:15 pm

     GREAT Blog. Thanks for taking the time to post all of this valuable information. I have a question. I applied for a Permanent Resident Visa here in San Diego (Retiree). I had to take in all my bank statements verifying I had investments and monthly income. They granted a Visa as you outlined in your blog.

     The problem is that I forgot that we’re going to Cabo next month on vacation for only a few days and as I understand it, once I enter the country, I have to enter on this Visa that they granted. Am I screwed and basically have to start over again at the Consulate Office here in San Diego and pay the $36 fee again after the trip?

     Is there anyway around this? I’d greatly appreciate any/all information any of you experts would have on this or recommendations on the best course of action I should take.

     Thanks in advance.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 27, 2017 at 6:52 am

       Bummer bummer bummer.

       With their nationwide computer system, INM tracks entrances & exits by passport number – and they have been really sticky about visa fraud (having 2 visas at the same time) for the last 3 years.

       The San Diego put a special 30 day 1 use visa in your passport – plus it’s recorded in the INM database.

       When & where do you plan to go to an INM office to finish your Residente Permanente visa process?

       After starting the INM part of the visa process, INM does allow us to travel outside Mexico for up to 60 days. (It takes about 3 days for INM to issue that exit~re-entry permit letter). Can you include a loop over to your INM office during the Cabo trip?

       That’s the only option I see. … other than to make a quick trip to your INM office to start the INM part of the process, getting the exit-reentry permit, before going to Cabo. You can use the letter to go to Cabo, and then again to return to finish your INM leg of the Residente Permanente Process.

       *sigh*
       steve

       Reply
619. Don Saigle says:

     October 28, 2017 at 7:39 pm

     Hi Steve – just completed the INM renewal for Residente Temporal at the Nuevo Vallarta office ( extended for 3 years ) and the SAT ( Customs ) paperwork – Puerto Vallarta Airport, advising of the extension and requesting that the TIP also be extended for the same time frame. All without a hitch! Thanks for your help and that of all contributors!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 30, 2017 at 7:18 am

       Congrats!

       Well Done,
       steve

       Reply

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621. Mary says:

     November 22, 2017 at 6:20 pm

     Need some clarification on how my spouse can qualify for a Residente Temporal. Sorry if this has been covered before. First of all, I qualify based on SSA income for a PR which is what I want. He wants a TR but doesn’t qualify based on his SSA income. We have joint investment accounts which, if reduced to 50% for his “share”, would easily qualify him for a TR. Does that generally work? Thanks for help!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 23, 2017 at 3:24 pm

       Hi,
       See the sections on this above. It’s called Vinculo Familiar. One applicant qualifies for RP, applies for RP, (or RT) and gets a Residente Permanente visa. The spouse (or immediate family member) enters on a Visitante visa, and once the RP applicant has their visa card, then they use the Vinculo Familiar program to get basic automatic acceptance without an fiscal qualifiers.

       See these sections above for details:
       ~ Other Categories/Qualifications that Permit a Foreigner to Become a Residente Temporal, including OFFERS of EMPLOYMENT and Family Members & Spouses (Vinculo Familiar)

       ~ Other Categories/Qualifications that Permit a Foreigner to Become a Residente Permanente, including Vinculo Familiar for Family Members and Spouses

       https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Other Categories/Qualifications that Permit a Foreigner to Become a Residente Temporal

       Happy Holidays,
       steve

       Reply
622. Mary Brewer says:

     November 22, 2017 at 9:45 pm

     Great information. Thanks. I would like to have information on how to attain citizenship as an American married to a Mexican citizen. Thanks.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 23, 2017 at 3:13 pm

       Hi Mary,
       We have a section on that above …

       Immigration Requirements that Relate to Becoming a Naturalized Citizen
       https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Immigration Requirements that Relate to Becoming a Naturalized Citizen

       Happy Holidays,
       steve

       Reply
623. Beaches Port Douglas Apartments says:

     November 28, 2017 at 4:14 pm

     I read this article completely concerning the resemblance of newest and
     preceding technologies, it’s amazing article.

     Reply

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625. Jennie Sulemana says:

     December 27, 2017 at 11:35 pm

     My husband is from Ghana West Africa and will arrive by plane but I am us citizen and plan to meet him in Tijuana. What does he need to have when he arrives at the airport. We want to go to look at home to live in temporary until residents.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 28, 2017 at 2:12 pm

       To the best of our knowledge, Mexico has no (zero 0) visa agreements with any African nations. That means that Africans must get a visa approved at a Mexican Consulate before traveling.

       That means that your husband needs to apply for either a Visitante, Residente Temporal, or Residente Permanente visa. What visa would he qualify for?

       What is your visa status in Mexico? … If you have a Residente Temporal, or Residente Permanente visa, or … if you are a Mexican citizen … then your husband could enter on a Visitante visa, and then apply for a Residente Temporal while here in Mexico under the Vinculo Familiar program (see details in article above).
       https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Other Categories/Qualifications that Permit a Foreigner to Become a Residente Temporal

       Happy trails
       steve

       Reply
626. scenesfromabook says:

     February 21, 2018 at 12:14 pm

     Steve,

     Any advice for dealing with delays at the INM. I have a Res Temp based on savings and am trying add permission to work (I have an offer). My trámite is in the system but I have been waiting for 7 months. This Is in CDMX. When I go to the office they don’t know how to help and tell me to come back. Nothing is happening.

     Plus, I had to submit my visa as part of the trámite. So for 7 months I’ve been without an official Mexican ID. This has been problematic.

     Thoughts?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 22, 2018 at 7:59 pm

       Wow… 7 months is a record.

       Have you contacted the Delegado?
       steve

       Reply
       • scenesfromabook says:

         February 26, 2018 at 10:12 am

         No– who or what is a Delegado? Is there only one for CDMX? I googled it but am still unclear…. Thank you.
       • yucalandia says:

         February 26, 2018 at 8:50 pm

         A Delegado is the head of the office.

         Just like INM offices, every major SRE office has a delegado.

         Basically, you’re bringing in the boss, to help with your unusual situation,
         steve
627. Connie Tang says:

     March 2, 2018 at 1:18 am

     I am a permanent resident of Mexico. Can I apply for my son for a temporary resident visa.
     He is 32 years old and currently works in the US. I went to the Mexico Consulate in San Jose, CA and they told me he has to have $82,000 USD in the bank. They said I cannot apply for him due to he is not a minor. Please let me know is there other ways to do this.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 2, 2018 at 1:53 pm

       The Mexican Consulates in California are known for being … un-knowlegeable.
       😉

       Read the section of the article above called:
       Vinculo Familiar – para Unidad de Familia program.

       Immediate family members qualify automatically for Residente Temporal visas, with NO personal fiscal requirements.

       You basically certify that you will be fiscally responsible for your son.

       Your son (or other family member) enters Mexico on a normal 6 mo. Visitante Visa (FMM-“Tourist” visa) and then you~he makes that Vinculo Familiar application at your local INM office.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • ranchosolymar says:

         March 2, 2018 at 3:06 pm

         I was told the same regarding Vinculo Familiar for my daughter who 36. This was in Puerto Vallarta.

         >
628. Daria says:

     March 19, 2018 at 6:03 am

     Steve,

     If i meet the permanent visa requirements but am issued a temporary resident visa (im from a country similar to Californian ones where embassy thinks you should be 60 to be eligible to receive permanent visa even though i have the finances for pr – im 32 in age) can I apply for the permanent residence visa once I arrive in Mexico (pay any extra fees if need be) or will I be stuck with a temporary resident visa for 4 years and be ineligible to apply for permanent residence visa as soon as I arrive in Mexico?

     The reason I ask is I have a 2 year residence visa in Canada and if I will be stuck with a temporary residence visa I am thinking it might be better to visit Mexico as a tourist for now and wait to apply for PR once I am in Canada again.

     Appreciate all your help and thanks for this awesome information,
     Daria

     Reply
     • markemmer says:

       March 20, 2018 at 12:33 pm

       This recently happened to a friend of mine. In October she applied at the Seattle consulate, and even though they said she met the requirements for Permanente, they issued her a Temporal visa. I went with her to INM in Morelia to ask if she could just present proof of financial capability at the Permanente level and proceed with an RP application. Nope. They said they had to carry out the permit as it was approved in Seattle. However, they said that after receiving her RT green card, should could wait a month or two and then apply at their office for Permanente.

       She elected not to proceed with the RT because she was going back to Seattle in a month anyway, which they understood. Back in Seattle she went through the process again, this time insisting on a Permanente visa, which they gave her.

       People with RT status have always been able to apply for RP anytime during the 4 year period. My wife did it after two years. However at your age, you may get extra scrutiny because RP is for pensionados o jubliados. You will have to show that you have a pension or are retired. If you are qualifying on the basis of monthly income, rather than net assets, the proportion of your income that must be from a pension seems to vary by consulate. Steve has some information on this page about which consulates are flexible, requiring less than 100%, and which are sticklers. In Morelia I watched another friend transition to Permanente based on income, where about 60% of her income was from Social Security (“pension”), and 40% from a trust (“non pension”).

       Mark

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         March 20, 2018 at 12:55 pm

         RP is also for Family Unity. That is how I got mine. That was one of the best days of my life! And, there was no talk of income at all. Of course, it only works for those with Mexican family of some sort.
       • Daria says:

         March 21, 2018 at 12:11 am

         Hi Mark,

         Thanks for your reply – I am applying on the basis of my net assets so I will try at another consulate to apply for the RP. If I am not successful I will default back to RT and then try my luck once I am in Mexico with completing the RT card obtainment and tranistion to the RP.

         Thanks for all your help.

         Daria

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631. Neal says:

     June 26, 2018 at 11:11 am

     I have a question or two. I understand that in changing from a temporal to a permanente statues I need to first apply online. Does that application fall in the 30 day before my temp expires or can I do it before then? Do I need to print something or will the information be on line for the INM officer to use.. How long does the online application take to process? Thanks Neal

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 2, 2018 at 8:45 pm

       Hi Neal,
       INM’s on-line form that you fill out is not quite an application on its own. It’s more of just a log-in form, that formally logs-in your request to change visa types, issuing you a NUT number to take into your INM office (saving INM techs from typing in your personal data). You’ll note that at the end of filling out the INM website form(s), it gives you the option to to print out a copy.

       The real application process formally starts when you show up at the INM office with your NUT number, and register your request in person. In the first years of the new INM law (2012 – 2014) INM only generally accepted applications for RP visas, when the RT visa was expiring (30 days before the RT visa’s Fecha de Caducidad), especially when you are using the “4 years of successfully completed on an RT visa” approach for qualifying for RP visas.

       In the meantime, some Mexican Consulates have accepted some RP applications, where the applicant does not wait until completing 4 RT years , but instead uses their personal financial documents (bank statements, retirement account statements, Social Security Admin letters documenting monthly income, to meet the RP’s Personal Fiscal Solvency requirements

       Check with your local INM to find out their current local policy on when you can make the change from RT to RP, & to know the requirements. Each local INM office was given some discretion on when & how to do this, so there had been policy variations between INM offices. We definitely know multiple people who have surrendered their RT visa (months before it expired), and were allowed to apply for an RP visa.

       Can you also please return here and tell us their current local policy, and tell us which Consulate or which INM office you checked with?

       Thanks!
       steve

       Reply
       • Neal says:

         July 2, 2018 at 9:03 pm

         Steve I plan to go through the Melaque, Jalisco office. My RT expires in November after what will be 4 years. I was planning to return in October to make sure I had plenty of time to get it done. Maybe I’ll go down in September if there is a chance they will start the process a little early. I’ll let you know how it goes.
       • Neal says:

         November 6, 2018 at 11:00 am

         Ok here is my updated situation. I went to the Melaque office, officially the Barra Sub station, 5 and a half weeks before my temp expired. No go, had to wait for the 30 day period to start. We are now at 4 weeks with no apparent progress.
         This is a two person office, el jefe and a nice young assistsnt with whom I have been talking about my statues. I have not seen the boss at all.
         I need to return to the states next week, I have already canceled one return flight.
         I spoke with the young assistant about a letter to permit me to leave and return. She identified the paper work I need to make the application
         BUT she told me she is not authorized to sign such a letter and the boss is in Chiapas dealing with “the gautamalan caravan”.
         Do you know if she could pass me on to either the Manzanillo or Puerto Vallarta INM office to get the needed signature? P.V. Is better as that’s where I fly from. I’m sort of running out of time.
       • yucalandia says:

         November 6, 2018 at 7:47 pm

         Wow … That’s tough.

         To our understanding, only the INM office that’s processing your Residente visa application can approve the travel abroad.

         Chiapas’ INM office is definitely bearing the HUGE brunt of Peña Nieto’s choice to offer 1,000’s of Honduaran-Guatemalan visas for Mexico, but ONLY if they stay in Chiapas.

         Maybe find a local attorney who has some “juice” with the local INM Delegado ??

         Best of luck, steve
       • Neal Donaldson says:

         November 14, 2018 at 7:32 am

         Well El Jefe returned to the Melaque office Monday to a huge pile of paperwork. Anyway I have my transit letter. Apparently the Guadalajara office is over loaded with paper work and it is taking much more than a month to just get to the fingerprint stage.

         Sent from my iPad

         >
       • yucalandia says:

         November 15, 2018 at 4:55 pm

         Hooray!
       • Neal Donaldson says:

         January 31, 2019 at 2:06 pm

         As noted I was able to leave Mexico for six weeks returning the beginning of January. I returned to the INM office January 6 where there was some confusion about my curp number. Apparently one had been assigned last April but I didn’t have any information on it. Lucky for me a lawyer I know happened to be in the office with someone else and was able to help me with the needed paperwork. I eventually was finger printed in mid January and told to return in one week for my card. Of course the card was not ready in one week, you know with the gas situation and all. But on January 24 I actually finally received my brand new spiffy permanent residency card. One last question. I will have to renew my US passport soon giving me a new passport number. How do I deal with that with relation to my permanent status? Thanks Neal

         Sent from my iPad

         >
       • yucalandia says:

         January 31, 2019 at 5:01 pm

         When you get the new passport, simply make a copy, and give INM a letter describing that you have a new passport, with a copy attached.

         They may ask to see the new passport … or they may just smile and thank you.

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633. Louisa says:

     July 14, 2018 at 12:56 pm

     Steve,

     Louisa here. To answer your question in the earlier thread, yes, I more than meet minimum financial requirements for residencia permanente, in my IRA and SEP accounts, along with joint brokerage acct shared with my husband. However, having worked for myself throughout my career, and since I have not yet begun taking Soc Security (and don’t want to yet), I don’t have monthly pension checks. Sounds like the San Francisco Consulate may see this as an obstacle. I’ll just have to take all my financial statements, show them that I do qualify, and cross my fingers. Any other suggestions?

     Reply
     • Neal says:

       July 14, 2018 at 1:45 pm

       Louisa 4 years ago I went to the Sacramento consulate and used my IRA account balance to qualify for temporary residence, no problem. Neal

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 14, 2018 at 5:19 pm

       Hi Louisa,
       I referred to the monthly pension deposits only as an topic~area~issue where San Fran’s Mex. Consulate puts in additional requirements not in Mexican law … extra requirements that other Mex. Consulates do not use.

       Your retirement savings definitely can be used to prove personal fiscal solvency.

       Good Luck!
       steve

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 19, 2018 at 4:37 pm

       Louisa,
       Other suggestions?

       Drive to Las Vegas, NV and go to the Mexican Consulate there.

       No appts. needed … No requirements for pension income … In and out in just 1 day, if you have all your documents + copies.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • Louisa says:

         July 31, 2018 at 11:05 am

         Hi Steve & others,

         Back from San Francisco and my easy-peasy meeting with the consulate staffer. It was a breeze. I initialed a form, he took another photo of me (not sure why they require the first photo), and I was out of there in 20 minutes. Picked up my passport 3 hours later, and I’m done with Phase 1. Phase 2 in Mexico looks more complicated, but maybe not–I’ll take another look before I get there. Thanks for all your help, Steve! I’m one happy camper!

         –Louisa
634. D. Davis says:

     July 14, 2018 at 2:09 pm

     If you must prove social security disbursals for purposes of permanente qualification, I believe the SSA will allow you to “change your mind” so long as you pay back your disbursements. But do confirm!

     Reply
635. L Alexander says:

     August 2, 2018 at 12:41 pm

     Great article and soo very helpful! Can’t thank you enough!

     When you bring in Bank Statements, will they ever accept .pdf file, or must they all be printed? Also, do they need all pages (my Schwab statements are around 10 pages each) of just the 1st summary page? Asking cuz it will take 2 accounts each to demonstrate financial solvency & that’s a big ol’ load of paper.

     We were going to try the Little Rock, AR consulate–does anyone out there have any experience with them?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 3, 2018 at 10:19 am

       Hi L,
       Bank statements, printed on company letterhead. First summary pages are almost always sufficient. It’s also best to circle key information:
       ~ Statement beginning & ending dates, and
       ~ Statement beginning & ending balances

       The Mexican Consulate in Little Rock has had a good reputation.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • Linda Alexander says:

         August 3, 2018 at 12:07 pm

         Thanks so much! I’ve been doing a little research and think we’re going to try New Orleans instead–they have lower savings/income requirements. Plus it’s right on the way to Mexico for us. Good info about the statements. If i had it to do again, I wouldn’t have gone paperless!
       • yucalandia says:

         August 4, 2018 at 8:52 am

         Hi Linda,
         Some more liberal Mexican Consulates accept our copies that we print from the electronic statements – especially if they have the bank’s logo.

         Unfortunately, a few cities’ Mexican Consulates only accept statements on original letterhead.

         Good Luck,
         steve
636. Linda Alexander says:

     August 4, 2018 at 3:28 pm

     We’re paperless, so no originals available. Would you reveal which are the more liberal locations? Thanks!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       August 8, 2018 at 6:49 am

       Hi,
       Phoenix, Portland, Chicago, Miami, Laredo, and Little Rock, (off the top of my head).

       Boston, ALL CALIFORNIA Mexican Consulates, Houston, and Washington DC have been challenging for non-retired people, adding additional requirements not specified in INM law.

       steve

       Reply
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         August 8, 2018 at 7:43 am

         Yes, it changes. I remember in the late 90’s, when I first investigated immigration to Mexico, I lived near Chicago, so I contacted them. The income levels required by the Mexican government were very plain. but, I got a letter from Chicago stating nearly double. When I posted this on Mexconnect, I got called many names for trolling.
       • yucalandia says:

         August 8, 2018 at 6:48 pm

         
       • yucalandia says:

         August 8, 2018 at 6:50 pm

         Hey Bruce,
         As usual, your insights are spot-on with reality:

         The SRE’s law on immigration rules give the local Consulate offices a lot of discretion & leeway in what local standards~requirements they set.
         steve
     • yucalandia says:

       August 8, 2018 at 12:05 pm

       Hi Linda,
       “We’re paperless, so no originals available”

       Then print off clean copies that show the bank-company letterhead – logos – etc.
       steve

       Reply

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638. Don Saigle says:

     September 23, 2018 at 7:08 pm

     Has anyone worked with the INM office in Nuevo Vallarta to complete this renewal process?

     “A few special local INM offices do now process new Residente Temporal permits for previous RT’s who have just completed 4 years of temporary residency – issuing a NEW Residente Temporal permit without leaving Mexico. For the INM offices that allow this (like Chapala and Guadalajara and … ?), the foreigner intentionally allows the final year’s RT to expire, and then they go into their INM office immediately after expiration. They pay a modest $1,600 peso “late penalty” fine – and the $1,036 “Regularization” fee, submit bank statements and translations, and pay the normal RT fees. This is all done at your INM office, without going to a Mexican Consulate.”

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 26, 2018 at 9:00 am

       That option was described by Lic. Spencer McMullin about 4 years ago, describing INM in Jalisco. To the best of our knowledge, this program is no longer offered by INM offices. … Ask your Nuevo Vallarta INM personnel, and come back and tell us their current policy.
       ssteve

       Reply
639. Don Saigle says:

     September 26, 2018 at 9:11 am

     Thanks! Will do!

     Reply
640. Susan Carnes says:

     September 26, 2018 at 7:13 pm

     Dear Friends:
     We are and have been Residente Permanente for several years and drove a car that we had nationalized. But this spring as we drove in the USA, the car lost its transmission and we sold it to be junked, keeping the plates which will be good until March for that car. then, we bought another car in Canada and brought it into the US for free as it met specs. But, to nationalize (legalize) this car would cast the total value of the car. Is it possible to purchase a tourist visa without giving up the Permanente status?
     SusieQ

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 1, 2018 at 9:35 pm

       ” Is it possible to purchase a tourist visa without giving up the Permanente status?”
       No.
       sorry.

       Reply
       • Linda Alexander says:

         October 2, 2018 at 8:39 am

         I tried to read this because it’s of interest to my situation, but I can’t find it on you site. Can you provide a direct link to this article?

         On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 10:35 PM Surviving Yucatan wrote:

         > yucalandia commented: “No. sorry” >
       • yucalandia says:

         October 3, 2018 at 2:41 pm

         Link to what~which article?

         I can’t understand your question. … If your on this page, you are reading the comments at the end of our Immigration~Visas~Living in Mexico article.

         What’s your question ~ issue?
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         October 2, 2018 at 4:28 pm

         Yucalandia clearly is the expert here. But, it looks like you want two different immigration statuses at the same time. And, Mexican law specifically prohibits such a thing. My personal advice, which is worth every cent you pay for it, heh, heh, is to bite the bullet and buy a Mexican car. That is what I did when I got permanent residence and it isn’t a real big problem.
       • yucalandia says:

         October 3, 2018 at 2:33 pm

         Amen!
641. VL Tucker says:

     September 28, 2018 at 10:32 am

     My mom had a Mexican permanent resident card but went to the US and died there. How do I cancel her card? I only see stuff on the internet for when a US citizen dies in Mexico which is not the case here.
     Is there anything I have to do or can I just cut up the card?
     VL Tucker

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 1, 2018 at 9:36 pm

       Why not keep her Residente Permanente card … in case she (her estate) has some tax liabilities, property ownership, etc problems?
       steve

       Reply
642. Louisa says:

     October 30, 2018 at 8:52 am

     Hi Steve, Thanks to your help I’ve completed Stage 1 of becoming a residente permanente (the US part). Am embarking on Stage 2. So far I’ve only had a tourist visa, but am now jumping straight to permanente, skipping the residente temporal. I don’t see instructions mentioned on your site. Do I just apply using the instructions of residente temporal?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 2, 2018 at 12:32 pm

       Hi Louisa,
       We complete the process (at INM) the same way for Residente Permanente as for Residente Temporal.

       Complete the online application at the INM website that gives you a NUT number…. take that to your local INM office ~check in~ . Your local INM office will then give you instructions of what they want next … which hopefully only includes getting a form to take to a bank to pay for your approved Residente visa, along with returning in about 2 – 4 weeks to give them your fingerprints & sign a signature card.

       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • Holly says:

         November 2, 2018 at 2:09 pm

         Immigration is requiring photos of front and profile in addition to the receipt for payment 4,800, so far for RP. Will keep you posted.
         Oh and we had to find he little visa slip that the officer provided when Mother flew in.
643. Louisa says:

     November 10, 2018 at 6:10 pm

     Hi Steve,
     I’m flying to Mexico on Nov 23 but wanted to go ahead & fill out the online INM form while I’m in the U.S. so I’m all ready to go to my local INM office when I arrive. Also, I’m mystified about the “canje” thing and want to have plenty of time to figure it out. There’s no rule saying I have to fill it out right before I go to the office, is there?
     Thanks…Louisa

     Reply
     • Louisa says:

       November 11, 2018 at 8:37 am

       I forgot to say, if I fill it out in the States I’ll do it on one computer but be on a different computer in Guanajuato. Can I capture the pdf from Guanajuato?

       Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 15, 2018 at 5:00 pm

       Hi Louisa,
       We have seen no specific published rules on your issue.

       If you choose that way, it may be good to get to your INM office fairly soon after doing the on-line filing (under 30 days?).
       Steve

       *Edited

       Reply
       • Louisa says:

         November 15, 2018 at 8:17 pm

         Sounds like it was a mistake to fill it out yesterday, Nov 14. Earliest I can go to INM office is Nov. 26. Will that disqualify me?
       • markemmer says:

         November 16, 2018 at 11:24 am

         Louisa, you can file as many of those forms as you like. Each will generate a unique NUT to track it. Only the one that you hand in to immigration will be used. The rest will quietly expire in the computer after some period (Steve says under 30 days, I remember reading 90 days years ago). And if INM flags something wrong on the form, like an address, just go to a nearby internet cafe with a printer and do another one. The requirements of what to bring are here (except it doesn’t mention that you should also write a letter in Spanish saying what you want to do):
         https://www.gob.mx/tramites/ficha/expedicion-de-documento-migratorio-por-canje/INM811
         and the online form is here:
         https://www.inm.gob.mx/tramites/publico/estancia.html
         Use “Canjear o reponer documento migratorio” for what you want to do, and “Canje de FMM por Tarjeta de Visatante o de Residente” for the specific action. Use an address that matches the comprobante (light, telephone or cable bill) that you will present.
         Oh, and make sure the official approving your FMM form when you arrive marks “Canje, 30 days” not “Visitante, 180 days” otherwise you’ll be in a world of hurt. You want to exchange (canje) your FMM for your permanent resident card when you go to immigration.
         I recognize that the process can appear confusing, especially to those with limited Spanish, but it actually is quite logical. I’ve walked many people through it.
         Mark
       • yucalandia says:

         November 16, 2018 at 2:51 pm

         Superb insights & updates !

         THANKS!
         Steve
644. Joseph says:

     November 23, 2018 at 5:28 pm

     Hi, Steve. We are getting ready to have my spouse’s 2 year temporary resident card changed to permanent resident (I have a permanent resident card.) The vinculo requirements seem pretty straightforward,except I’m not quite sure about this: ” En caso de que la persona extranjera haya obtenido la condición de estancia de residente temporal por matrimonio o concubinato con mexicano o persona extranjera residente permanente, deberá presentar original y copia del acta de matrimonio o del documento que acredite concubinato de acuerdo a la legislación civil o del documento que acredite figura equivalente al concubinato otorgado por autoridad competente del país de origen o de residencia de la persona extranjera, y escrito bajo protesta de decir verdad firmado por el solicitante y su cónyuge o concubina o concubinario, en el que señalen su domicilio conyugal y la subsistencia de dicho vínculo durante los dos años anteriores a la solicitud;” Does the last part of this mean we need some kind of signed document proving 2 years of marriage? Or is the apostilled and translated marriage certificate enough? Thank you for lots of good advice over the years! Joseph

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 26, 2018 at 3:24 pm

       Generally, an apostilled official copy of your marriage certificate + official translation is sufficient.

       They also required a recent comprabante proving our local address… and they required that my (Mexican citizen) spouse write a letter certifying that she would be fiscally responsible for me … but I understand that may not be a current requirement.

       Go in and ask for a list of what your local INM office requires, as each office sometimes has their own addtl. rqumts.
       Steve

       Reply
645. Joseph says:

     November 26, 2018 at 2:35 pm

     I’ve come up with something I’m gonna use, thanks to your other sample letters and Google Translate: Mérida, Yucatán a 7 de Enero de 2019
     Delegado de Mérida INM
     Instituto Nacional de Migración, Delegación Federal en Yucatán
     Calle 35 No. 510B entre 62 y 62A, Col. Centro
     Mérida, Yucatán 97000

     Distinguido Delegado,

     Por la presente certificamos que hemos mantenido nuestro domicilio

     conyugal y nuestro vínculo matrimonial durante los dos años anteriores a esta

     solicitud.

     Bajo protesta de decir verdad,

     Atentamente,

     (our signatures and address and phone #)

     Reply
     • Joseph says:

       January 8, 2019 at 1:00 pm

       OK, forget this letter. I’ve been to the INM office and they do not need this. They have a fill-in-the-blank letter they give you for this purpose.

       Reply
646. famadewa olufemi says:

     December 2, 2018 at 7:55 pm

     i love an updates am seeing here,

     Reply
647. Raj says:

     December 10, 2018 at 1:25 pm

     Hi,
     I am currently working in mexico for a MNC, who sponsored my RT visa. Now i got an offer from a mexican company. I want to know if the new company needs any sort of permission to hire foreigners. Since they never hired a foreigner before.
     Also what are all the documents i need from the new company to update my employer changes at INM.
     Thanks

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       December 10, 2018 at 5:43 pm

       Hi Raj,
       Did your original RT visa for an MNC include formal permission to work in Mexico => “Residente Temporal con permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas”. If so, then you have a formal RFC issued by SAT~Hacienda.

       If you have that RT visa with permission to work in Mexico, then generally they want a letter from you and a letter from your new employer.

       Your letter describes your name, visa number, passport, local address, and includes a request to change employers, to the new one, plus a copy of a comprabante for you.

       In general, the letter from the prospective employer is on their letterhead, describing their official company name, address, etc +plus the letter describes~identifies who you will be reporting to (at the new company) (signed by that person) … and it describes both your new job title and your new responsibilities. Sometimes they ask for the employer to describe the anticipated term (duration)of employment.

       Either prepare these letters and take them to your INM office, and hope they do not ask for more~additional information in the letter(s) … or … Go to your INM office and ask them what their local requirements are.

       Happy Trails,
       Steve

       Reply
648. Terri says:

     January 10, 2019 at 9:51 am

     Hi Steve, we are on the three-year track of temporary residency, and in 2019 we will be elligible to apply for Peremanent Residency. Since we already provided proof of our income/savings, etc., when we applied for the temporary residency permits, do we have to show those documents again, or does immigration go off what we have already provided?

     Reply
649. tennal says:

     March 12, 2019 at 7:34 am

     I have lived here for 7 years.

     i got my temp residency in 2012, perm in 2016.

     due to circumstances, i might be in need of returning to the states for for an unknown amount of time.

     what are the current time limits?
     i will return at least once a year at minimum for a week or 2. how does this effect the time limit?

     thanks

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 12, 2019 at 7:57 am

       There are no time limits for Residente Permanente’s be outside of Mexico.

       That’s a USA thing.

       Reply
       • Tennal says:

         March 12, 2019 at 10:20 am

         I’m an American citizen… I’ve never looked at it from this angle…

         If you happen to know, does the us care about where I reside?

         I mean, if I hold perm res in mexico and move to states to do some things that might take more than a year, am I establishing residency in the states , and does either country care.

         At end of my reason for moving to states, I plan on moving back
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         March 13, 2019 at 9:36 pm

         I asked this exact question in Puebla when I got my permanent residence card, and was told the key word was PERMANENT. That I could come and go whenever and wherever and however long I wanted. That was one of the best days of my life! After several years as RP, I still feel all goose-bumpy when I think about it.

         The US mostly cares about how much in taxes you pay. [sarcasm.}
650. Anon says:

     March 12, 2019 at 4:57 pm

     I’m in Atlanta. I’m going to Miami since it seems some have had a good experience there with applying for permanent residency. The woman at the Atlanta office straight up told me the income has to be from a pension.

     I’m trying to schedule an appointment at the Miami consulate here :

     https://mexitel.sre.gob.mx/citas.webportal/pages/public/login/login.jsf

     but there’s there’s no option for scheduling an appointment for Visas. I ONLY see “Power of attorney” and “Passport/Consular ID Card” ….which should i select?…. after selecting the consular ID card one these options show up:
     Pasaporte
     Matrícula Consular
     Solicitud INE
     Pasaporte y Matrícula Consular
     Matrícula Consular y Solicitud INE
     Pasaporte, Matrícula Consular y Solicitud INE
     Pasaporte, Solicitud INE

     nothing about Visas

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 14, 2019 at 3:08 pm

       Here’s the Miami Consulate’s webpage for visas – I got is from their regular homepage:
       https://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/miami/index.php/consular-services/visas

       Happy Trails, Steve

       Reply
       • Anon says:

         March 15, 2019 at 2:24 pm

         thanks. i sent the email. in case i don’t hear back from them, can i just do a walk in once i get to Miami?
651. Anon says:

     April 8, 2019 at 9:45 am

     DONT go to Miami if you’re trying to get permanent residency immediately and 1) aren’t retired or 2) don’t have a pension. they are not a flexible consulate…. doesn’t matter if you have a high income. it HAS to be retirement of pension income. I kept insisting (nicely of course) but he said he knows for sure i would be rejected. he told me “you’re young so you don’t qualify..it has to be pension or retirement income”. They do not care about anything else but the fact that you’re receiving retirement of pension income. I also spoke Spanish as much as possible. just to show that you know- i’m serious about this and i’ve learned the language since i’ve lived in Mexico for extended periods of time as a tourist (20 months total). he thought it was cool and all but it didn’t matter.

     The “points system” also does NOT exist in Miami, even though many people say it is used at some consulates. the guy had no clue what i was talking about. Just a warning to anyone who is planning to fly all the way to miami just to apply for a permanent resident visa. I’m going to take a 3 week break and try again at Phoenix Arizona.

     Reply
     • markemmer says:

       April 8, 2019 at 9:58 am

       @Anon, you seem very irate that the Miami consulate is doing exactly what is written in the immigration law. It says, Tramite 7, Aplicable a personas extranjeras que pretendan internarse en la condición de estancia de residente permanente:
       Presentar los documentos que acrediten alguno de los siguientes supuestos:
       a. Jubilados o pensionados:
       1. Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos doce meses, o
       2. Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes mayores al equivalente de quinientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.

       You can use any source of income for Residente Temporal, maintain Temporal status for four years, and then transition to Permanente automatically, without being retired. That’s the normal method that was established and how the government wants it to work.Yes, they did set up a special bypass for retired people, but that’s their prerogative to do so, not yours to complain about. Follow the damn rules and you’ll be a better and happier resident of México.

       Reply
       • Anon says:

         April 8, 2019 at 10:58 am

         I’m not irate a all. I’m just letting people know that this consulate is not flexible as has been suggested several times in this thread so they don’t waste money going there just to get this visa.

         I actually called the Phoenix, Arizona office after my interview and they told me the exact opposite of what Miami told me. That you do not need to be retired to qualify for permanent residency. How exactly does one “follow the damn rules” when the rules are different from consulate to consulate and none of them seem to be following the ‘official’ immigration law? even the minimum income required is different from one consulate to another.
       • yucalandia says:

         April 9, 2019 at 1:44 pm

         How do you do it well … “Anon”

         You read …
         Read good sources.

         We’ve been reporting this stuff, and since 2008 … and updating it in 2012 (with the Nov 2012 DOF Reglamentos de Migracion publication)…

         It’s been common knowledge, regularly shared since 2012 on the 5 expat websites we read.

         ??
         and YES… IF YOU READ THE ARTICLE above, you will find that it is ALL LEGAL … The Ley de Exterior clearly gives EACH and EVERY Consulate the freedom to interpret the law, and add LOCAL restrictions, at the discretion of the local Consular agent.

         It’s been that way since the 1990’s … so …

         Maybe? … You’ve now found some accurate – reliable ~ useful~ practical~ resources to read ??
         (like this report above).

         Tell your friends? … 😉
         Steve
       • ranchosolymar says:

         April 11, 2019 at 6:03 am

         A women went to the Orlando, FL office and was able to qualify with investments only this week.

         >
       • yucalandia says:

         April 11, 2019 at 7:46 am

         YAY! …. Thanks for the GOOD update.
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         April 11, 2019 at 12:22 pm

         I can vouch on the differences between consulates. I retired in 1997, and when I wrote to the Chicago consulate about moving to Mexico, they listed income amounts about double what others on Mexconnect had reported. The regulars on Mexconnect really trashed me for trolling, though all I did was report what Chicago told me. Which is why I left Mexconnect for many years. I tried again a few years ago, and it was the same attitude. I do now understand why expat boards are so nasty, though. Which is why I now simply write on a proboard forum as a blog about Mexico life. Yucalandia provides a very civilized place for posting questions and answers. Thanks, Steve.
652. markemmer says:

     April 9, 2019 at 5:11 pm

     Steve, have you heard of anyone being approved by a consulate with relaxed rules and then being rejected by a local immigration office? Even though my wife and I were approved by the Denver consulate, we still had to show all the bank statements to the local INM office when doing the initial canje. If you have heard of INM accepting a canje approved by a consulate with qualifications less than the law mandates, then I will stand down on my comment that it’s simplest to just comply with the terms written in the law. Certainly there are cases of consulates requiring MORE than the law mandates, which is tough luck for the applicant, but requiring LESS?

     Doing Residente Temporal for four years is more costly and requires more trips to immigration, But at least the eventual transition to Residente Permanente sidesteps the Are You Retired or a Pensioner? issue. (And you get to drive your foreign plated car in México for four years.)

     The only wiggle room that I’m aware of for persons I’ve assisted with early Residente Permanente is what percentage of their income needs to be pension income. Clause (a)(2) above implies that it should be 100%, but I’ve known people with some of their income from a pension like Social Security and the rest from rental, trust or investment income. They were approved by INM to transition from RT to RP in less than four years. I don’t know what would happen here if someone came in with NO proof of ANY pension whatsoever and still wanted to qualify under the heading “a. Jubilados o pensionados”.

     Maybe Anon will prove that RP without any pension income is possible if you pick the right consulate and local immigration office. More power to him or her if the attempt is successful. I’m always willing to learn.

     Reply
     • ranchosolymar says:

       April 9, 2019 at 9:28 pm

       My husband and I received PR before we had pension income, actually he still doesn’t have it.

       >

       Reply
       • markemmer says:

         April 9, 2019 at 10:01 pm

         Do you mind revealing what consulate and immigration office you were able to do that without pension income? Or are you referring to the automatic transition from RT to RP after four years?
         Thanks!
       • ranchosolymar says:

         April 9, 2019 at 10:04 pm

         It was probably 10 Years ago, before one had to apply in their home country. I was just able to get immediate PR for Mother at the Boston Consulate, they were very accommodating.

         >
     • yucalandia says:

       April 11, 2019 at 8:08 am

       Mark,
       Thanks for yet another superb, detailed update!

       Yes, we have heard of some local INM offices requiring re-documentation of assets/income/etc. – but it is UNCOMMON.

       Remember the old principle: Every single local INM office’s Delegado has a LOT OF DISCRETION .. as the Ley de Migracion gives them broad leeway to ADD local additional requirements, not specifically in the law. … The same principle applies for the local Mexican Consular officials, where they to can capriciously add extra-legal local-Consulate requirements, not present in their DOF published law. 😦

       and As you noted, the local INM & local Consular officials also have broad discretion to waive published requirements.

       When faced with local offices adding extra requirements … Saavy foreigners can cite specific sections of the Law … focusing on appealing to a Supervisor …. (ask to go above the INM clerk’s head)

       But if the Delegado (or their employees) stand their ground on the suspect, extra-legal requirement, then, short of hiring an Immigration attorney, there’s not much you can do …. 😦

       And yes… Foreign applicants for Mexican visas can go Consulate shopping … including going to Belize or Guatemala. …

       but, I don’t see how one could go INM office shopping …. (e.g. For the last 4 years, Our Progreso beach INM office has been turning away Merida-address applicants)

       Good to hear from you,
       Steve

       Reply
653. markemmer says:

     April 9, 2019 at 11:15 pm

     @ranchosolymar: Curious. I’m trying to parse what you did.

     The second part, recently getting your Mother an immediate RP, is no surprise. Family members related to a person with Residente Permante can get RP status immediately without being retired or pensioners (except for spouses, who have to go through a two-year RT waiting period.) So that’s not an indication of any laxity on the part of the Boston Consulate. They were just following the law that allows such actions.

     The first part, doing it before you had to apply at a consulate, must have been something else besides RP initially.

     The immigration law was different back then, with different categories: FM2, FM3, Inmigrante, no-Inmigrante. I’m looking at the 2010 law and neither the word jubilado or pensionado appears.

     The terms RP and RT and their requirements for applying at a consulate became effective in late November of 2011 if I recall correctly. We got in under the old system by a few days, which got us No Inmigrante cards (modalidad Rentista – No Lucrativa). At the first year, November 2012, renewal, they switched to the new name, Residente Temporal. But there was no need to re-apply and prove up income or sources — they just transitioned to the new names automatically — No Inmigrante became Residente Temporal, and Inmigrante became Residente Permanente.

     In 2013, when my wife started collecting Social Security and was officially a pensionada, she applied for and received Residente Permanente at the next renewal at an INM office. That was after two years in country by showing the required financial resources and the annual SSA pension statement. Or maybe it was the bank statements that showed monthly social security deposits. She brought both to the interview.

     So if you did this ten years ago, without applying at a consulate, you gradually evolved to Residente Permanente without having to provide anything beyond what was needed originally. The same thing happened to me.

     I’m still hoping to hear from someone who wasn’t retired or a pensioner and who got RP immediately, post-2011, without relying on a family link or the mysterious, unimplemented point system. And without having to wait four years as Residente Temporal.

     Reply
     • ranchosolymar says:

       April 10, 2019 at 6:40 am

       We did not use vínculo familiar for Mother. It’s likely we had our fm3 that evolved to RP. My daughter and her boyfriend were offered either RP or RT in AZ about four years ago, neither had pensions. There are hundreds of Expat Mexico forums on Facebook and I would think that that’s a good place to post about consulates that are more lax.

       >

       Reply

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655. Nancy Rigg says:

     June 22, 2019 at 10:30 am

     Our 4 years of temporary residency is up in August and we would like to switch to permanent status now. Do you know what the process is for the Merida office? Do we need to take financial records?
     Thanks
     Nancy

     Reply
656. Roger Dale Hardesty says:

     June 23, 2019 at 8:20 am

     June 11, 2019 Update:
     Merida’s INM office is moving on June 17, 2019.

     INM-Merida’s New Address:
     Calle 31 * #94 x C16 y C20, Colonia México
     Merida, Yucatan

     *Note that this section of Calle 31 also corresponds to Circuito Colonias.

     Reply
657. Raj says:

     July 1, 2019 at 9:58 am

     Hi Friend,
     My RT is expiring on 23rd July, But i need to travel to US next week and will be back in Mexico on 15th July to process my RT to RP. I just wanted to make sure there is no problem in travelling since its closed to my expire date.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 2, 2019 at 3:24 pm

       You should be fine.

       Reply
658. Raj says:

     July 18, 2019 at 1:00 pm

     Hi Friends,

     I am going to INM tomorrow to start the process of my RT to RP. I have all the documents stated on INM web page. Please let me know if anything else is required.

     1. Passport (Original & Copy)
     2. FM3 card(Original & Copy)
     3. My Wife’s Passport & INE (Original & Copy)
     4. Marriage Certificate (Original & Copy)
     4. Online Form Signed
     5. Payment proof of cambio de condition

     Thanks in advance.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       July 19, 2019 at 7:39 am

       Sounds good.

       Know that ” FM3’s ” have NOT existed since late 2012… Take your current RT visa card instead.

       Since you appear to be applying for the RT to RP change under the Vinculo Familiar program … check out the information in the article above on Vinculo Familiar:
       https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Special Rights of Foreigners who are Family Members of Mexican Citizens

       Also read the INM’s Vinculo Familiar program form (link listed above in the sections on ” Vinculo Familiar” )

       Click to access Visa_unidad_familiar.pdf

       We also had to provide a letter from my wife, certifying that she would be personally fiscally responsible for me … along with copies of her INE card (front & back) …

       I think that with these items, you have touched all the bases,

       Come back and tell us how it worked out, 😉
       Steve

       Reply
       • Raj says:

         July 20, 2019 at 4:38 pm

         Unfortunately things didn’t go well. Since i came to Mexico with RT (Employer Sponsored) and got married here in mexico. Even though i spent 2 years in mexico as RT after marriage since it is not through vincular familiar, INM said i cant do RP. So i need to renew my RT one more year and then process my RP through my employer. The whole thing doesn’t make sense to me. But i am going to INM again on monday to process my RT enewal through my employer.

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660. Mortgages says:

     August 29, 2019 at 11:00 am

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     Reply
661. Helen Myers says:

     September 6, 2019 at 10:56 am

     My husband and I are Permanent Residents; we have been in Canada since April, and now have health issues that preclude us returning within the 6 month period. Is there a process to extend your absence, without losing our permanent residency. Thanks for any advice!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 6, 2019 at 7:30 pm

       Since you are both Permanent Residents of Mexico, you can stay out of Mexico as long as you like.

       There is no problem with “extending your absence”.
       Happy Trails, Steve

       Reply
662. Nathan says:

     September 8, 2019 at 4:22 pm

     Thank you for this wonderful resource!

     I’m a bit confused on how the Vinculo Familiar program works for relationships of the second level. I am the grandchild of a Mexico-born citizen. My mother was born in the United States, and was not a Mexican citizen. Am I eligible to apply directly for a Residente Permanente visa, or do I need to apply for a Residente Temporal visa first? It seems that for a direct relation (e.g. parents) you can go straight to Residente Permanente, but I cannot find consistent information for how it works at the next level.

     Unfortunately my mother is deceased, so having her apply for her RP and then applying for my own is not an option.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       September 12, 2019 at 1:07 pm

       Does your Mexican Grandparent have a current Mexican INE~IFE card, or current Mexican passport?

       Vinculo Familiar works for living Mexican relatives who support the claim of Vinculo Familiar by immediate family member-foreigners, and foreigners who are grand-parents~grandchildren Mexican citizens. The Mexican relative supporting the Vinculo Familiar claim by the foreigner, must prove they have current Mexican documentation of Mexican citizenship.

       If your Mexican grandparent is dead, then it becomes very difficult to prove your Vinculo Familiar claim. … If your Mexican grandparent had taken the few simple steps to register your Mom as a Mexican citizen, then it would be easy.

       e.g. All 3 of our grandsons have been born in Colorado, and their Mexican mom (our daughter) easily got each of them Mexican citizenship.

       Otherwise… Just apply as a normal Residente Temporal.
       Best of Luck, Steve

       Reply
663. Grant says:

     October 16, 2019 at 5:17 pm

     Excellent advice given many other articles that I’ve read. Thanks much!

     What is the best (i.e. with the least possible negative ramification(s)) way to (effectively) cancel my recent Temporary Residence Visa approval from my local consulate? Background: Soon after my Temporary Residence Visa pre-approval, I determined that it would have been much better for me to have had waited for a couple years and apply for a Permanent Residence Visa. Granted, I wasted time/effort/money to obtain my Temporary Residence Visa pre-approval but I learned much in the process, so that’s all fine.

     Based on what I’ve read, what is the best way to cancel/nullify the visa pre-approval?: a) enter as a “tourist”;b) enter on my Temporary Visa and then never report to INM; c) exit MX w/in 30d of entry; or d) ???

     Initially, I thought that option “a” was best; however, an article stated: “It is important that a Temporary or Permanent Visa applicant never enters Mexico as a tourist, this may be viewed as deceptive and cause your application to be canceled”. Of course, I would not want to do anything that may be perceived as deceptive, etc. Note: My local consulate mentioned that exiting MX within the 30d period will cancel the visa.

     Thoughts? Thanks in advance. Grant

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 17, 2019 at 10:48 am

       Surrender the single use 30d-Visa (issued by the Consulate) to the Consulate, and re-apply for Residente Permanente at a Consulate who will accept your current bank & retirement account statements … if you are retired.

       Reply
664. Don says:

     November 20, 2019 at 1:14 pm

     Will be transitioning from RT to RP next year. I came across an article on the INM Blog site (dated October 2, 2019) speaking to the issue of expired immigration documents that occur while the holder is out of Mexico. ( https://www.gob.mx/inm ) The article indicates that one can enter Mexico using the expired immigration document as long as the entry is within 55 days of the expiration date. Then, within 5 business days of entry, the holder must submit the renewal application. While an expired RT is not specifically referenced in the document, it appears this policy provides this option. Has anyone any further insight / comments??

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       November 20, 2019 at 3:49 pm

       This info is published in the article above (since March 2013) … and yes, this has been INM policy the last 6 years.

       Thanks for the updated link!

       Happy Trails,
       Steve

       Reply
665. Don says:

     November 20, 2019 at 3:56 pm

     Does it apply when converting to RP after 4 yrs as RT? Have read posts on other sites that this option does NOT apply – can you clarify?

     Reply

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668. Andrew Lockyer says:

     January 21, 2020 at 11:17 am

     Hello Steve,
     First of all, great website. I have 2 issues really:

     1) I currently have my RT and the 4th year runs out at the end of March. I therefore need to complete the process to get my RP. I have a 2 year old Mexican son, so I am not sure if it would be easier/better to do the process based on vinculo familiar?

     2) Also, I didn’t realise I had to inform immigration of any job or address changes so I have spent over a year in a different job and at a different address to the one registered with INM. Should I inform immigration of these changes before I begin the process of my RP or should I make them aware during the process?

     I am worried that my application could get rejected because of not informing them and what could the penalties be?

     Could provide any insight into this. I am in Playa del Carmen if that helps?

     Thanks

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 25, 2020 at 11:11 pm

       Hi Andrew,
       Good questions.

       Vinculo Familiar puts the applicant into Residente Temporal for 2 years … which I don’t think you want or need … go straight to the near-automatic conversion from the expiring RT visa … over to an RP Visa.

       I would file the change of work place now … no apologies … no big explanations … Just inform them that you are notifying them that you are currently working for XYZ employer, at ABCD address, doing Blah-blah-blah job.

       Steve

       Reply
669. marcie cavanagh says:

     February 3, 2020 at 1:35 pm

     I keep trying to book an appointment at a Mexican consulate in Phoenix, Arizona using the link you provided. https://mexitel.sre.gob.mx/citas.webportal/pages/public/login/login.jsf It will not let me fill in the information even after I registered. Any suggestions and DO I need to have an appointment? Also is Albuquerque, New Mexico also a lenient consulate for renewing my Temporal Residency?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 3, 2020 at 6:12 pm

       Hi,
       Are you trying to access the site from a phone. … or a computer?

       There are a bunch of official govt & private corporation websites that do NOT work when accessed by phones.
       Steve

       Reply
       • marcie cavanagh says:

         February 4, 2020 at 1:29 pm

         Can you start the Temporal Registration outside Mexico before your present card expires? If so how much leeway time do you have? Is there an online form I will need to fill out to start the process before visiting a Mexican Consulate in the states?
       • yucalandia says:

         February 12, 2020 at 7:37 pm

         Yes … you can start the Residente Temporal application process outside of Mexico at a Consulate, but at some point you MUST surrender any existing valid Residente Temporal visa – especially when ENTERING Mexico… Having 2 valid visas at the same time is considered Visa fraud.

         INM gets very serious if someone has an existing visa, and then tries to enter Mexico on a second different visa (like the special 30 day visa that the Consulates issue for the Canjear process in Mexico). INM has often charged people with visa fraud & denied them entry to Mexico, for trying to use some new Visa, before the old (still valid) one has been surrendered.

         Surrender the old one (to INM as you enter), when you go to use the new 30day one issued by the Consulate.

         Happy Trails, Steve
670. marcie says:

     February 5, 2020 at 2:17 pm

     Is the Mexican Consulate in Albuquerque New Mexico considered to be alienate consulate when trying to get a temporal residence renewed?

     Reply

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674. marcie cavanagh says:

     March 21, 2020 at 3:49 pm

     My TR expires at the in of March. I am going to apply for PR. I have a TIP on my car. Can I turn in the sticker on my car for a refund from Banjercito without having to go to the border?

     Reply
     • markemmer says:

       March 21, 2020 at 4:11 pm

       No. Deposits are only returned at the border. Besides, the car has to leave Mexico when you become a permanent resident. That’s what the T in TIP means — it’s a TEMPORARY importation. You also can’t sell it here. And if you think you’ll just continue to drive it (illegally), consider your exposure if you have an accident or kill someone. Your insurance company may wash their hands of you because the vehicle isn’t legally licensed to be here. Given all that’s happening at the border right now and the uncertainty of travel, you may not have any good options.

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         March 22, 2020 at 6:50 am

         marcle,
         Mark gives superb answers.

         He’s right on all his points.

         There’s two minor caveats~exceptions for foreigners living in Free Zones, like Quintana Roo, Baja California etc. … A foreigner with RP visa can drive their car freely INSIDE the Free Zone, as long as it has current license plate (back home), registration & insurance.

         … The other caveat is that Aduana sea port offices, w/ Banjercito offices … can accept the surrendered TIP … If marcle lives in Quintana Roo, the port at Cancun & port at Mahaual used to offer this service … and he could continue to drive around Q.Roo…
         😉

         Happy Trails, Steve
       • Bruce McGovern says:

         March 22, 2020 at 9:02 am

         When I got PR a few years ago, it really hurt to dump my 2002 Sienna with 222,000 miles on it. Motor and transmission were like new, and I expected it to be the last car I ever owned. But, I wanted PR more than I wanted that car, so I toughed it out and donated it to a Bible Institute near the US border. I still wish I had it back, but that is harsh reality.
675. sistema de medicos en Uruguay says:

     May 20, 2020 at 6:49 pm

     I appreciate, cause I discovered just what I was looking for.
     You’ve ended my four day long hunt! God Bless you man. Have a great
     day. Bye

     Reply
     • sam says:

       November 12, 2020 at 2:37 am

       NICE

       Reply
676. Sherri Siegel says:

     October 19, 2021 at 11:00 am

     I need to make an apt. at the Mex. Embassy in Phoenix to renew my Temp. Residency (I have a US plated car and my 4 yrs. are up). Pre Covid it was easy to make an apt with them. I’ve tried calling, emailing and using the mexitel.sre.gob.mx website. No luck. I’m trying to schedule for Nov. 15, 2021.
     Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       October 20, 2021 at 6:44 am

       Did you call the national number: 800-8010-773, “where a representative will assist you” .

       Reply
677. Roger Dale Hardesty says:

     October 19, 2021 at 1:18 pm

     The INM office where you live in Mexico will give you another 4 years if you go in when your current Residente Temporal expires or is near expiring.

     Reply
678. Sherri Siegel says:

     October 19, 2021 at 1:24 pm

     I have a US plated car whose TIP is connected to my Res. Temporal so my understanding is that I have to drive the car out of the country and start over at an embassy in the US

     Reply
679. Roger Dale Hardesty says:

     October 19, 2021 at 1:35 pm

     Your TIP expiration can be extended based on your Res Temp expiration at the Aduana at the airport or port authority in your area.

     Reply
680. Sherri Siegel says:

     October 19, 2021 at 1:58 pm

     Also my husband is going to begin his Perm Residency process. Only problem….cannot make the apt.!!

     Reply
681. Roger Dale Hardesty says:

     October 19, 2021 at 2:16 pm

     800-8010-773, where a representative will assist you.

     Reply
682. Sherri Siegel says:

     October 19, 2021 at 2:19 pm

     Yeah, tried that several times, it’s no longer in service. Thanks so much and please if you want keep on trying.

     Reply
     • 3redcandles says:

       October 19, 2021 at 4:20 pm

       Maybe CK with the Mex embassy I. Us

       Reply
683. Nashir says:

     December 13, 2021 at 4:59 am

     I will try to engage. This helps me to promote myself.

     Reply

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685. Sonja K says:

     May 16, 2022 at 9:44 am

     Could you please tell me where you got the information below ? Please provide a link to gob.mx official source site or social media? Also which INMs are actively doing this? I just can’t find any further info at all about this. Muchas Gracias!!! 🙂

     “August 15, 2021
     INM now has a special program that allows some foreigners inside Mexico on the 180 day “Tourist” visas, to now apply for a Residente Temporal visa at your local INM office – without leaving the country. Check with your local INM office for details. “

     Reply
686. Mariana says:

     February 3, 2023 at 12:12 pm

     Hi! I run Mexico Relocation Guide- the site where you posted information from on this page. Can you please link back to the page where you are getting this information from. Or please take down the copied information if you are not going to give credit to the source.
     Here is the link https://mexicorelocationguide.com/visa-requirements-for-mexico/

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 4, 2023 at 4:58 pm

       Done

       Reply
       • marianalimalange says:

         February 6, 2023 at 11:49 am

         Thank you so much!
         Mariana Lange
       • yucalandia says:

         February 6, 2023 at 3:12 pm

         I saved the image of your table from some other ‘Come to Mexico’ post in an expat Facebook group, where it was given no reference, source or citation … so, we’re happy to know who went to all the effort to tracking down all this current information.

         THANKS!
         Steve