~ Current Rules and Procedures for Immigration ~ Immigrating to, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico

1,602 Responses to ~ Current Rules and Procedures for Immigration ~ Immigrating to, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico

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3. Solomon Freimuth says:

   November 12, 2012 at 8:05 am

   Good Morning Steve,
   I think we both had the same idea this morning, publish articles about the new immigration law! We write about the most exciting stuff!

   You have so much more patience than I do for writing down all the details all at once. This article is thorough and VERY detailed.

   Anyway, here is a brief summary of the renewal process. This is definitely a work in progress, because I haven’t had a chance to ask the immigration office how they want me to present renewals yet (I am going this morning), but this is at least what the law says:

   http://www.mymexicanlawyer.com/immigration-questions/changing-or-renewing-fm3fm2-to-temporary-or-permanent-resident-card/

   I am sort of hoping to ease some of the chaos that is going on in some of the online forums in the last week based on the changes in the law. Hopefully, everyone can exhale a little when they read that the RENEWAL process isn’t that hard.

   Saludos!
   Solomon

   Reply
   • yucalandia says:

     November 12, 2012 at 8:36 am

     Good Morning Solomon,
     You are a kind kind man.

     I know how much I appreciated good current information on the internet when we were planning our move to Mexico, 8 years ago. There were few sources of information on immigration or Custom’s rules for Mexico, and most of it was incorrect hear-say – things that people “had heard”, parroted over and over.

     Your insight about the lack of knowledge getting some expats unnecessarily worked-up fits our experience this weekend. There has been a series of vigorous discussions going on at Mexconnect (a very good national forum for expats) and also on our local Yolisto. Fortunately, most of the issues have been minor, except for concerns about the increase in financial independence requirements, aka the difference between typical United States Social Security monthly checks for $1,300 vs the new INM requirement for $1,950 in monthly deposits to qualify for Residente Temporal.

     Ric Hoffman (another talented and helpful guy) has written some good summaries on Mexconnect describing how the new rules and processes really are improvements in a number of areas: http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=182701;page=4;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; and related pages.

     I am off to read your fresh article, and I wish you the best of luck in gleaning more insights and better understandings of the new INM law and rules this morning at your INM office. I am also heading over to our Merida INM office, to get a copy of their official list of things to bring to the INM office when applying for Residente Temporal and Residente Permanente.

     All the best,
     steve

     Reply
   • Nancy dicken says:

     January 16, 2013 at 1:56 am

     Good morning
     My husband and I made it all the way to the fingerprinting and were told to pick up or residence cards yesterday. When we attempted to pick them up, we were told that the applications have gone to Mexico City and will be neither three weeks. Anyone have this?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 16, 2013 at 8:26 am

       Hi Nancy,
       Your latest INM experience makes sense with what we know about the new system. In the normal “new process” steps”
       1. The foreigner makes an application.
       2. The application is accepted for processing at your local/regional INM office and has the foreigner pay.
       3. INM can ask for additional documentation, where they have you return to the INM office. They have you submit fotos.
       4. INM approves the application.
       5. INM notifies the foreigner that their permit is approved, and asks them to return to the office for fingerprinting.
       6. The applicant gets fingerprinted at the office, and they send your fotos, fingerprints, and information to a central office in Mexico City / D.F. for printing and laminating a national standard ID/permit card.
       7. The new laminated card is sent back to the regional office, and the regional office notifies the foreigner that their card is ready.
       8. The foreigner makes their last trip to the INM office, and gets their card.

       I am going to guess that your Spanish skills are like ours (less than perfect), so you were simply mistaken about coming in to get your final card, where you were actually at steps 5 & 6, needing to get fingerprinted. ??

       This means your process is right on track for finishing in about 2 more weeks.
       steve
     • Linda Leonard says:

       January 16, 2013 at 3:32 pm

       The link doesn’t seem to take me to where this is on the forum, as it usually does. How can I get to where this is posted and make a comment?
     • yucalandia says:

       January 16, 2013 at 6:56 pm

       Linda,
       What link is not working the way you expect?
       steve
     • Linda Leonard says:

       January 16, 2013 at 7:34 pm

       I was emailed a post by Nancy dicken, and also received your reply. When I click on reply or comment at the bottom, it takes me to the section on the website called New Rules and Procedures for Immigration, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico but once there I can’t find the posts by Nancy or your reply to her. Usually when I get an email with a post like this, I click on reply and it opens right where the post is on the website and I can add my 2 pesos. How can I find the posts by Nancy & you?
     • yucalandia says:

       January 16, 2013 at 7:49 pm

       Nancy replied to an earlier comment by Atty. Lic. Solomon Freimuth:
       Her reply was submitted on 2013/01/16 at 1:56 am.

       Look in this article, in the comments made by Solomon Freimuth.
       steve
     • Linda Leonard says:

       January 16, 2013 at 8:08 pm

       Aha! Found it. Muchas gracias for taking the time to help me.
4. ranchosolymar says:

   November 12, 2012 at 10:43 am

   I admittedly have not read the changes issued directly regarding the new immigration laws, but it appears there is one new advantage. Previously on an fm2 with a desire to become a nationalized citizen one was limited to 2 months outside of Mexico and I don’t see that this requirement is in the new regs, am I correct? I have asked this several times on Mexconnect with no response.
   Thanks!

   Reply
   • yucalandia says:

     November 12, 2012 at 11:04 am

     Correct.

     Neither us nor Ric Hoffman nor Solomon Freimuth (and others) have seen anything in the 2011 Law, the Reglamento, or the Lineamientos that raise this restriction on time out of the country. Actually, the old limit was 18 months outside of Mexico over the 5 year Inmigrante/FM2 period.

     My head is tired from all the writing, but the final word on this should be checked with SRE’s requirements.

     SRE has a long past record of checking Inmigrante passports to prove that they have been “Residents” in the years before the application for Citizenship. If the passport stamps and dates are illegible, or if the applicant has been out of the country more than SRE likes, then SRE can and does reject applicants who they think have not behaved as good Residents. SRE is a different government agency than INM, so, they have their own policies, rules, and requirements.

     Really, we have found that talented attorneys can both valuable and may be essential for applying for citizenship in Mexico.

     Our best advice: Ask an attorney who specializes in Immigration and Citizenship – since individual SRE offices may not have hard and fast rules on how residency is determined and approved.

     SRE offices have a lot of discretion in what rules are applied and how they are applied. e.g. Our local SRE office has a reputation of rejecting nearly all of the Citizenship applications made when the attorney comes along with the expat to the first meeting with SRE personnel.

     According to recent reliable reports: If the applicant cannot handle the SRE first visit, with conversations and casual Q&A about the application on their own, with no family member or attorney aiding or prompting them, then the applications are rejected because the applicant effectively fails the Spanish competency requirement. Apparently, the SRE lady who receives and enters the applications is also the lady in charge of determining Spanish language comprehension and competency. Have some Mexican friend or relative come with you to help understand the Spanish, and you may be quietly but automatically rejected in our SRE office.

     This sort of good local advice from a knowledgeable attorney can save a lot of hassles and grief, by avoiding unexpected undocumented quirks at the local SRE offices???
     steve

     Reply
5. ranchosolymar says:

   November 12, 2012 at 12:14 pm

   Thank you! We do have a very good accountant who has handled all of our fm3 visa apps the past 7 years and a very good attorney who we will consult as we apply for our new visas this year. We had been on track 5 years fm3 and would have applied for 1st year fm2. It seems we may qualify now to apply for citizenship sooner under exceptions. We own a Sustainability Center and Off Grid Campground in a small village, and will be starting a non profit Woman’s Cooperative Dairy to make Artisanal Cheese. The investment amount and/or technical skills area in addition to employing 5 people or more may help. We do have rental property in Maine, 5 adult children and 2 grand babies to visit NOB, so the out of country allowed time is somewhat of an issue as we have normally taken 5 months a year. Thanks for your posting here and on Mexconnect.
   Holly

   Reply
6. yucalandia says:

   November 12, 2012 at 2:15 pm

   Are $31,165 pesos a month of regular deposits from pension payment sufficient in and of themselves to qualify an applicant for Residente Permanente?

   John Garvin and Ric Hoffman have initiated an interesting and potentially useful dialogue in the comments section on this, in our other original May 2011 article on the new law. See: New Immigration Law Published for Mexico – The Article at https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/new-immigration-law-published-for-mexico-the-article/

   John wrote:
   “Went to Immigration in San Miguel. One officer said time on FM-3 did not count. The Delgado said it did. Here was a huge shocker and a good one… One year on a FM-2 or 3 and $2500 PENSION income and you can apply got Permanent Resident. That income can be proven with bank statements PLUS letters from whom you receive the pension income or income tax statements etc. So I applied for Permanent resident. Final word on approval will be 2 weeks from today. Then one more step required and not sure of all the details.”
   (and later)
   “I did not realize the income was sufficient without “time served” of 4 years. I was told at immigration you need one year of a temporary or permanent visa (applied for at consulate) before the $2500 threshold kicked in.”

   Ric then gave very good details from the Transitorios from the 2011 Law describing how to document such qualifications.
   See Comments in https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/new-immigration-law-published-for-mexico-the-article/

   ********************************************
   Yucalandia’s Perspectives on this:
   Ah, the devil in the details.

   The original 2011 Law does have a clause that says that residents with sufficient pension income from government agencies or international organizations or private companies qualify for Residente Permanente – as we noted in our May 2011 original article on the New Law.

   Sub-category “III” to Article 54 (listed on the same page as Article 52 Sec. IX) reads:
   “Artículo 54. Se otorgará la condición de residente permanente al extranjero que se ubique en cualquiera de los siguientes supuestos: . . .
   …
   III. Que sean jubilados o pensionados que perciban de un gobierno extranjero o de organismos internacionales o de empresas particulares por servicios prestados en el exterior, un ingreso que les permita vivir en el país; ”

   Roughly translated:
   Article 54: Individuals who shall be granted permanent resident status due to any of the following circumstances:
   III: Individuals who are retirees or pensioners, who are entitled to a foreign government or international agencies or private companies for services rendered abroad, an income that allows them to live in the country;

   So, by our previous reading, monthly pension income above the requirement for Residente Permanente, $31,165 pesos a month of regular deposits, qualify for Residente Permanente.

   This could be interpreted as people and retirees who have “pensions”, receiving regular pension income payments, but not all previous “Inmigrante Rentistas” are pensioners under this interpretation.

   We hesitated to highlight this clause from the law in our new Immigration article, because everything we had found relating to it in the Reglamento and in the Lineamientos all pointed to ALSO requiring 4 years of Residente Permanente.

   We decided to wait to publish this interpretation, until there is definitive and consistent(?) confirmation that sufficient pension income is sufficient by itself to qualify a foreigner for Residente Permanente, because the Lineamientos and Reglamento seem to say otherwise.

   As such, we encourage readers to post their experiences with regional office rulings on this issue:
   1. ~ Are they approving Residente Permanente applications based solely on sufficient pension income?
   2. ~ Are they adding a requirement of 1 or 2 years on a Residente Temporal first?
   3. ~ Are they giving “credit” for 1 or 2 prior years on a current FM2 Inmigrante Rentista? (Immigrant Resident, Investment Income category) or
   4. ~ Are they approving Residente Permanente applications only with 4 years of prior Residente Temporal AND sufficient pension income?

   In the absence of direct clear instructions by the Reglamento or Lineamientos, we believe it is within the purview and rights of each Regional INM Delegado to choose to require any of the 4 options described above.

   Please keep sending in your comments and descriptions of your experiences to help the expat community to understand and know what is working, and where there are obstacles.
   steve

   Reply
   • yucalandia says:

     November 12, 2012 at 2:53 pm

     Personally, I would find it difficult to believe that a first time Visitor to Mexico could apply for Residente Permanente at their Mexican Consulate, and go to Mexico for their first time, trot into an INM office, and get Permanent Residency by just showing a passport, proof of a local address, a few ID fotos, and 6 bank statements and a letter from their pension fund documenting the pension… I would hope that one would need to show some evidence that they really do intend to become a Permanent Resident of Mexico, by at least living here…. but … ???

     I suspect INM officials will have the same reaction, and will supplement the income requirement with some previous residency requirement to demonstrate that the Permanent Residency application is credible and has been made in good faith.

     Reply
7. ranchosolymar says:

   November 12, 2012 at 2:26 pm

   My husband Dan would likely be able to pass the exam soon, his Spanish is excellant, but he still needs to hit the books on Mexican history. I will need all of the four years for both requirements to have any prayer of passing. I assume nine of those requirements have changed.

   Reply
   • yucalandia says:

     November 12, 2012 at 2:53 pm

     How old is Dan?
     There is a waiver on the exam for age…

     Reply
8. ranchosolymar says:

   November 12, 2012 at 4:12 pm

   55 years old.

   Reply
   • yucalandia says:

     November 12, 2012 at 4:35 pm

     Nope, not old enough to avoid the exam.

     Have you tracked down the official list of the pool of 100 questions to study?

     The exam is multiple choice, and you only are given a small number of questions by SRE. Back in the day, applicants had to memorize big blocks of Mexican history, and write out answers in decent Spanish – including the full names of key figures: Benito Juarez vs Benito Pablo Juárez García. The old questions also required analysis and critical thinking to write little essays about why things happened.

     In comparison, the current test is pretty straightforward.
     All the best,
     steve

     Reply
     • Barry says:

       November 12, 2012 at 6:15 pm

       Steve – I am 66 do I get an exemption?
     • yucalandia says:

       November 12, 2012 at 6:34 pm

       Barry,
       Yep, most (all?) SRE offices waive the test for geezers over age 60, especially if you speak passable Spanish, and can get through a basic interview with no help from other people.

       …. They mumbled something about “perros viejos” and “no trucos nuevos“, the last time I checked.

       Gringos have a long history of reporting that Regional SRE offices can occasionally seem capricious and possibly arbitrary when accepting or rejecting citizenship applications. I have no idea how much of it is real and how much is due to poor communication. I say this, because after 7 years of hanging out at the INM office for myself and friends, we really can not believe the goofy and gravely mistaken ways that some gringos think they know what INM agents are telling them. These gringos get nervous, mis-ask their questions – asking a different thing than they think they have said, and the dialogues really go down the rabbit hole after that.

       If they do make you take a test, you only have to pass 4 out of 5 straightforward multiple choice questions.

       All the best,
       steve
9. yucalandia says:

   November 12, 2012 at 4:38 pm

   Submitted on 2012/11/12 at 4:19 pm

   Might also want to discuss the info for persons wanting to apply under the condition of “unidad familiar” with family and/or personal connections to Mexicans (or foreigners with temporary or permanent resident status).
   With this the person or persons in Mexico whom you have a family relationship with have to petition the INM directly using one of the new forms on their website. Not sure what happens after that, but it seems that they are committed to reuniting families.
   Also the economic solvency requirements are much less. Either 300 x 62.33 = 18,699p for an average monthly balance for the last six months; or 100 x 62.33 = 6,233 pesitos (or 475 bucks @ 13.1) in a monthly pension or wage each month for six months.

   In my own case I am the father of a Mexican citizen and divorced from a Mexican citizen and am going with this route when I move back to Mexico next spring.

   From Tramite 5: Visa de Residencia Temporal: Requisito IV: section d:
   d. Unidad Familiar: en términos de los artículos 55 y 56 de la Ley y el artículo 113 del Reglamento.

   1. Vínculo con persona extranjera que cuente con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal:

   i. Si el solicitante es cónyuge, concubina o concubinario de persona extranjera con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal, acta de matrimonio o constancia de concubinato o figura equivalente emitida por autoridad competente de conformidad con la legislación aplicable del país del que es originario el solicitante, en original y copia; o

   Si el solicitante tiene hijo extranjero con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal, acta de nacimiento del hijo, en original y copia; o

   Si el solicitante tiene padre o madre extranjero con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal, siempre y cuando sea niña, niño o adolescente y no haya contraído matrimonio o se encuentre en estado de interdicción y esté bajo su representación legal, acta de nacimiento del solicitante, en original y copia; o

   Si el solicitante es hijo del cónyuge; concubinario o concubina o figura equivalente de una persona extranjera con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal, siempre y cuando sea niña, niño o adolescente y no haya contraído matrimonio o se encuentre en estado de interdicción y esté bajo su representación legal:

   – Acta de nacimiento del solicitante, en original y copia, y

   – Acta de matrimonio o constancia de concubinato o figura equivalente emitida por autoridad competente, con la persona extranjera con la condición de residente temporal o titular de una visa de residente temporal, en original y copia.

   ii. Tarjeta de residente temporal o visa de residente temporal, en original y copia, y

   iii. Acreditar solvencia económica para la manutención del familiar durante su estancia en el país, con:

   – Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a trescientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos seis meses; o

   – Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes mayores al equivalente de cien días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.

   2. Matrimonio o concubinato con persona extranjera que cuente con la condición de residente permanente o titular de una visa de residente permanente:

   i. Acta de matrimonio o constancia de concubinato o figura equivalente emitida por autoridad competente de conformidad con la legislación aplicable del país del que es originario el solicitante, en original y copia;

   ii. Tarjeta de residente permanente o visa de residente permanente, válida y vigente, en original y copia, y

   iii. Acreditar solvencia económica para la manutención del familiar durante su estancia en el país, con:

   – Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a trescientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses, o

   – Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes mayores al equivalente de cien días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.

   3. Matrimonio o concubinato con mexicano:

   i. Acta de matrimonio o constancia de concubinato o figura equivalente emitida por autoridad competente, en original y copia; y

   ii. Documento probatorio de la nacionalidad mexicana, conforme al artículo 3o. de la Ley de Nacionalidad, en original y copia.

   iii. Acreditar solvencia económica para la manutención del familiar durante su estancia en el país, con:

   – Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a trescientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos seis meses, o

   – Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes mayores al equivalente de cien días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.

   Reply
10. ranchosolymar says:

    November 12, 2012 at 7:13 pm

    Perfect! By the time I have 4 years on my new visa I’ll be 60.

    Reply
11. LIC. JACQUES-EDOUARD BEAULNE says:

    November 13, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    Good information but not totally correct:

    There are now, not 4 but 5 immigration documents.
    Visa
    FMM
    Residente temporal
    Residente temporal estudiante
    Residente permanente

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 14, 2012 at 8:09 am

      Estimado Lic. Beaulne,
      Thank you for your kind and accurate corrections.

      When I first read your comments, I agreed, but could not find to which item/paragraph you referred. I just found it, and corrected it.

      To help readers understand the context and weight of Lic. Beulne’s comments, when I moved to Mexico 8 years ago, his website and his thorough analyses of Mexican law and regulations affecting foreigners, was the best on the internet in our opinion. Other sites had lots information on Moving to Mexico, but their information was almost universally either: out-of-date, repeating bad hear-say or corrupted repetitions of things they had “been told by” government employees, significantly incorrect, or were missing key details. Instead, Can-Am-Mexico Law firm – Lic Beaulne – offered detailed, thorough, accurate, and USEFUL information, supported by references that surpassed the typical “I heard that …” content on other sites serving expats.

      As such, I was and am grateful for Lic. Beaulne’s ongoing efforts to help foreigners visit and live in Mexico, as his work helped us, and partly inspired us to create this website, Surviving Yucatan.

      Kudos to Lic. Beaulne for years of jobs done well !

      Thanks,
      Dr. Steven M. Fry

      Reply
12. LIC. JACQUES-EDOUARD BEAULNE says:

    November 13, 2012 at 8:57 pm

    You mix things up when you use the word visa instead of the proper terminology:
    A temporary or permanent residente card is legally known as “Tarjeta de residencia” as per article 3.XXVIII. of the Law. which can be translate as RESIDENCE CARD.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 13, 2012 at 9:24 pm

      Agreed, correct. I thought I tracked down and removed any references to visas, except for the actual visa issued by Mexican Consulates when visitors apply at their consulate permitting them to enter Mexico later to apply for residency at their local INM office inside Mexico.

      I am off to make the VERY GOOD corrections you have offered.
      THANKS !
      steve

      Reply
    • Jennifer Hill says:

      March 7, 2013 at 4:01 pm

      Wow this blog is so helpful. I have a question that I can’t seem to find the answer to. Please point me in the right direction. Lic. Beaulne mentions the 5 immigration documents above.

      What is the difference between a Visa de Residente Temporal (o Permanente) and Residente Temporal o Permanente Card. Does it depend upon your country of origin which one you receive? Or are there other reasons you would have one or the other?

      Thanks so much!
      Jennifer

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        March 7, 2013 at 4:17 pm

        Hi Jennifer,
        For Temporary vs Permanent residency card differences, you can read this section (a part of this article): Advantages and Disadvantages of Residente Permanente vs. Residente Temporal

        Your country of origin is only important if they have no immigration treaty with Mexico. If you are from a country with NO treaty, then you have to apply for an entry visa first.

        If your country has an immigration treaty with Mexico, (like the USA, Canada, et al) then you apply at a Mexican Consulate for either a Residente Permanente or Residente Temporal card, and then if the Mexican Consulate approves you, they give you a special one-time visa to use to enter Mexico (within 6 months of their approval), and you then come to Mexico and continue the application process at your local INM office here, to get your residency card.

        Re Temporary vs Permanent: You may qualify for both, which then gives you the choice of getting a series of up to 4 Residente Temporal cards, or apply for the Residente Permanente once.
        steve
13. Michael La Brooy says:

    November 13, 2012 at 11:40 pm

    About 40% of the way through the article + comments, there are TWO sections headed “Other Categories/Qualifications that Permit a Foreigner to Become a Residente Temporal”
    After reading them both, I think the second is actually about PERMANENT resident applicants, but the two identical headings could deceive or baffle a reader looking for the permanent resident details.
    I got a LOT out of reading this. Thank God there are people like you who can plod through and digest all this stuff to help people like me. (30 yrs ago I spent 6 yrs daily reading miles of legislation — I was an investigator for a provincial ombudsman in Canada — but I just can’t stand it now!)
    Michael (Morelia, Mich.)

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 14, 2012 at 7:19 am

      Good Morning Michael,
      Ahhhh, after 6 years of daily drilling into government legislation and regulations, you would certainly know what an effort this has been for folks like Solomon, Ric, Rolly, and me.

      I’m heading off to fix the error in the header. (Cutting and pasting repeated text, to save some typing, can let some minor bogeys creep in.)
      Thanks!
      steve

      Reply
14. Richelle Halverson says:

    November 14, 2012 at 7:03 am

    Has the Point System for requesting Residente Permanente (currently with an FM3 status) been published yet? I would like to review it if I can find it! Thanks

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 14, 2012 at 7:15 am

      Not yet.

      Reply
      • Richelle Halverson says:

        November 14, 2012 at 8:42 am

        Thanks… still waiting then!
      • Rebecca says:

        January 27, 2013 at 5:46 pm

        I was wondering this as well, and hope it’ll be published soon! I’ve been with my Mexican husband for almost a decade (common-law for most of that time) and we have a 7-year old daughter. Unfortunately, I’ve only been living/working in Mexico for 7 months (on an FM3) so I still have quite a while before I’m eligible for permanent residency except by potentially going through this point system.
      • yucalandia says:

        January 27, 2013 at 10:07 pm

        Cool.
        Is your daughter registered officially as a Mexicana? If so, then you qualify for Residente Permanente as the immediate relative of a Mexican, without having to complete 2 years or 4 years of Temporary Residency.
        steve
      • rebyanna says:

        January 27, 2013 at 5:58 pm

        Looking forward to getting this information! I’ve been living and working here for 7 months (FM3) with my Mexican husband and our daughter. I’d LOVE to apply for permanent residency but know I have quite a while to wait unless I can get approved through this point system. Thanks for all the great information you provide here! 🙂
      • yucalandia says:

        January 27, 2013 at 10:05 pm

        If your marriage to a Mexican was approved by a Registro Civil, then you are eligible to become a Residente Permanente after completing just 2 prior (unbroken) years of Mexican residency, on either an FM2, FM3, or Residente Temporal. This could mean that you are almost half-way there right now.
        steve
      • rebyanna says:

        January 27, 2013 at 10:33 pm

        Ah thanks 🙂 Sorry for the double-post, thought my first one didn’t go through since it disappeared after I clicked to comment! And yes, our daughter has a Mexican birth certificate and passport. She’s only 7 years old though…I thought she had to be an adult to qualify me for residency?
      • yucalandia says:

        January 28, 2013 at 7:03 am

        Hi Rebyanna,
        I’m glad that the news is good for you. The 2011 INM law clearly specifies the importance of keeping families together, so, yes, the 2011 law clearly qualifies you for Residente Permanente as the mother of a daughter who is officially recognized as a Mexicana.

        Ironically, a local law firm gave an “Immigration Law Presentation” at our local men’s club breakfast 2 weeks ago to teach us about “the changes”. Their “immigration expert” lawyer was telling people that family members had to wait 2 years (like the rule for spouses) before applying for Residente Permanente. As I had already corrected the lawyer on 2 previous significant errors, I remained quiet. A grandfather stood up to say that he had just been at our INM office last week, and the INM agents told him: “Sir, as the grandfather of a Mexican child, you qualify right now for Residente Permanente, with no prior years on an FM2 or FM3.”

        Even though the law has been out for over 19 months, many lawyers are still unaware of the basic requirements of the law. Lawyers can give advice on many things where they have no training, no certifications, and have not passed any tests. As Mexico changes their Labor and Immigration laws and regulations, it takes substantial efforts to read, learn, and interpret the legal changes, and it takes even more effort to track how local INM offices across Mexico are implementing the changes. This makes reader reports/comments to Yucalandia very important in updating what is actually happening “on the ground” versus the oft-faulty advice of “immigration” lawyers and immigration “facilitators”.

        Just like auto mechanics and Mexican “electricians”, there are
        ~ a few good ones, ~ a bunch of mediocre ones, and
        ~ more than a few incompetents ~ .

        Thanks to everyone for their ongoing comments,
        steve
      • rebyanna says:

        January 28, 2013 at 8:27 pm

        So I talked to someone else at the INM office and got another answer (surprise!)…turns out that you were correct. There is no waiting period “por tener hijos de nacionalidad mexicana por nacimiento”…having children of Mexican nationality through birth. However, because my daughter wasn’t born *IN* Mexico there’s no way to apply through her at ALL. Of course, a bit further down it then says, “Artículo 56. Los mexicanos tendrán el derecho a la preservación de la unidad familiar por lo que podrán ingresar con o solicitar posteriormente el ingreso de las siguientes personas extranjeras: I. Padre o madre;” Of course, they’ll probably say “mexicanos” implies adults, not children, but it won’t hurt to ask. Looking forward to this point system coming out! We should’ve just gotten married earlier when residency was immediate, since this would be a non-issue…20/20 hindsight. Thanks again for your help and for providing this blog! 🙂
      • yucalandia says:

        January 28, 2013 at 10:26 pm

        Dandy update.

        I really enjoy hearing that some INM offices are following the rules, and I feel a bit disappointed when some INM agents give out bad information, or choose their own opinion over the law.
        All the best,
        steve
      • rebyanna says:

        January 28, 2013 at 1:30 pm

        I’m sorry to report that my experience “on the ground” is not the same as that grandfather’s. Went to the local INM office this morning (Santa Cruz in Huatulco, Oaxaca) and they said I have to wait 2 years before being eligible through my daughter, same as if I was applying via my spouse. I’m wondering where they ARE giving permanent residency to parents of Mexican children…or where I can find the relevant information online to bring to the INM office? My FM3 is valid until July and I’d much rather become a permanent resident if I’m eligible instead of paying for a temporal. We’re moving to Mérida in August, so hopefully I’ll get it there if they continue to insist I can’t here.
      • yucalandia says:

        January 28, 2013 at 7:13 pm

        I am also sorry to hear your report.

        Individual INM offices have wide latitude and discretion in how they apply the rules. Unfortunately, your Santa Cruz office is taking a more stringent line than our Merida Office. Since your FM3 expires in July, you would need to apply before the expiration date. Unfortunately, the recent immigration polices between INM offices have not been consistent, and some policies are changing within offices even over the past 3 weeks.

        Fortunately, a 2 year route to Permanent Residency is shorter than the 4 year route you were previously told was necessary. There is still also a chance that when INM announces the particular details of the “Points System”, you may still qualify for Permanent Residency this year under the new upcoming “Points System”? or not ?
        steve

15. Pingback: INM DF Central Hotline Gives Consistent Answers on FM3/FM2 to Permanent Resident Questions | Surviving Yucatan

16. John Garvin says:

    November 15, 2012 at 7:04 am

    The costs for Permanent Resident is 1000 pesos to process and a 3815 peso fee. Final approval will take two weeks.

    Reply
17. Tony says:

    November 15, 2012 at 10:06 am

    Are we actually required to go back to the states and to a consulate, or can we get the documents from calling / emailing them.
    We are right in the middle of getting our temp or perm residency… Dang

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 15, 2012 at 5:44 pm

      Hi Tony,
      If you already started the residency application process with INM, then no, you do not have to go back to the USA.

      You mention something I do not understand: ” can we get the documents from calling / emailing them.”
      If you are already in Mexico, and have already officially started a residency application with INM, then there are no documents to get from the Mexican Government – so the question does not fit what you wrote…??

      Also, INM does not give foreigners any documents for the application process to people inside Mexico. You give them documents.
      steve

      Reply
18. John Garvin says:

    November 15, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    From the Hotline: You can only start the Permanent Resident application 30 days ptiro to your current visa expiration date. And, bank statements may comply with proving income but each Immigration office can seek a higher standard.

    Reply
19. Lisa Davis says:

    November 15, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    if the temporary resident is only valid up to 4 years – at the end can you reapply for another temporary resident permit or at that point must you apply for Permanent resident?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 15, 2012 at 6:03 pm

      Lisa,
      Yes, you can continue to apply for fresh Residente Temporal permits/cards, every 5th year.
      steve

      Reply
20. trishinmexico says:

    November 16, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    My first try at posting a question here… I hope I do it correctly. I am going for my 4th refrendo in March 2013 , so I believe I can apply for permanent resident. I own a home worth way in excess of the required peso value, but I bought it as land only, so the escritura shows very little value. On completion of building the house, the predial/city value was placed at 2,000,000 pesos. Does anyone know what document is required from the Notario, is it something other than the escritura?
    Would asking the city to increase the value for the predial ( above 2,500,000 pesos) help serve as proof of the house value? Thanks for any info. ….Trish.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 18, 2012 at 9:04 am

      Hi Trish,
      My apologies for not seeing and approving your very good questions earlier. We have our first grand-baby in town now, and we have been swept up in a flurry of family events with all our Yucatecan relatives wanting to see the new baby. Welcome Marco!

      Anyway, you ask good questions.
      Many many INM offices around Mexico are allowing foreigners with 4 years completed on their current Inmigrante/FM2 permits to qualify for Residente Permanente. A FEW INM offices are NOT allowing this interpretation. You must check with your local INM office to find out how they are handling this issue.

      Please note that owning real estate in Mexico does not qualify one for Residente Permanente – so, I think your other questions do not apply.

      In any case, people wanting to use the Real Estate Ownership rule to apply for Residente Temporal, are being told to bring in their official Catastral document showing the Government’s valuation of the property. The Lineamientos say that you need supply the original and a copy of your “escritura pública ” aka “deed” to the property. Our readings of the new rules say only certain types of applicants for Residente Temporal permits qualify to use the owning real estate route.

      Can one make a case with sufficient facturas and an official letter from a Notary and “before and after” fotos to prove sufficient increased value to meet the current $2,493,200 pesos valuation of real estate requirement? We are waiting to hear if our readers have successfully made this case with INM, or if it might take an attorney.

      Sorry I did not answer your very good questions sooner – Bad Dog, no biscuit …
      steve

      Reply
21. Maggie says:

    November 17, 2012 at 12:23 am

    Thank you Steve for all of this fantastic info….
    My question relates to existing FM2 holders with expiry very close. We (my husband & I) have adopted a Mexican child & are living in Mexico for one year.
    Our FM2’s are due to expire at end of November & we are unsure if the new law will require us to travel to our home Embassy to renew & if being the parents of our adopted Mexican child will allow us to qualify for the extension of what was the FM2.
    We understand from your very valuable information that we would fall under the new category of “Residente Temporal“ as we have “Inmigrante FM2 Rentistas” (and also, quoting your details,Have a familiar bond with another Permanent Mexican citizen – our daughter), or do you believe we could apply for ”Residente Permanente“?
    Any assistance would be appreciated with regard to the need to travel to home embassy to renew & also which category we would fall under as we need to get moving on a new application but were unable to do so until the new law was introduced & are now close to expiry of our existing FM2’s.
    Thanks again
    Maggie

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 17, 2012 at 10:47 am

      Maggie,
      As long as you have FM2’s, you do NOT have to return to a Consulate in your home country.

      Only visitors here on visitor permits are required to leave Mexico, go home, and file for a different immigration status at their home country’s Mexican Consulate.

      Without knowing your situation, we cannot say whether you qualify for Permanent Residency.
      You can qualify with ANY of the following, if you either:
      ~ have enough monthly income/pension deposits, or
      ~ own enough real estate, or
      ~ own a significant stake in a Mexican business, or employ 5 Mexicans, or
      ~ have enough money in a bank or investment account for the past year,

      then you can qualify for Residente Pemanente .

      Read the sections of the article above about the Requirements for Permanent Residency for lists of the specific details and $$$ needed.
      Happy Trails,
      steve

      Reply
      • Anita Farrar says:

        November 30, 2012 at 5:10 pm

        I live in Kelowna, B.C., Canada and was told my someone at the Mexican Embassy in Vancouver that I must go to Vancouver for a personal interview with the consulate in order to start my Residente Temporal from here. That, at this point (I am leaving Canada for Mexico in less than 2 weeks) impossible. Can it be true that all B.C. residents that wish to apply for RT must go in person to the Mexcian Embassy in Vancouver?
      • yucalandia says:

        December 1, 2012 at 6:45 am

        Anita,
        That is correct: All foreigners wanting to go to Mexico to get a Residency permit must go apply at a Mexican Consulate in a country where they have legal residency. We reported this new requirement in May 2011 when the law was approved. This requirement has been known for 18 months, but the implementation was simply delayed until the Mex. Gob. issued the Reglamento in Sept 2012 and Lineamientos on Nov. 8.

        I mention the history of this issue, to help you choose what sites on Mexico carry current news important to Canadians, Americans, Brits, and European interested in how things actually work in Mexico. Many “advice” sites on Mexico only report after-the-fact about the polices that are in the pipeline. If you know the upcoming changes, then you can shift your plans to best fit your needs.

        This is why we have been the first on the web to publish the immigration rule changes in 2010, and again in 2011, and again in 2012, along with the most up-to-date information on the changes in rules governing importing cars in 2011, and other issues important to foreigners.

        For us: Forewarned is forearmed… which is why we do our best to report the latest news affecting immigration, cars, importation, and labor law – based on tracking the policies at both the national and regional levels of Mexico — heavily supported by updates from our very talented readers’ and contributors’ comments.

        If you choose to not go to a Mexican Consulate, you can simply fly here, and enter Mexico on a 180 day Visitor’s permit, and then leave Mexico after 180 days.
        steve
22. Lisa Friesen says:

    November 17, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    My husband and I have FM3 Lucrativas, which we received in 2009. We live full time in Mexico and at this time do not have any employees. Where will we fit in…or do we?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 18, 2012 at 8:36 am

      Hi Lisa,
      You fit into the Residente Temporal permit category. One bonus of this new category is that you can pay for up to 4 years of this status, and NOT have to do the annual renewal dance any more… *YAY* !
      steve

      Reply
23. Kaye says:

    November 18, 2012 at 9:27 am

    I had to let my previous FM3 expire because I was unable to return to Mexico within the required time frame and did a completely new application and received a new (what is now called Residente Temporal) on Oct 11, 2012 good for only one year. Since the new law is now in effect and offers the option of paying for 4 years at one time, is there any option to go back into the office and pay for the additional 3 years to extend it to the full payment of the newly offered 4 year one time payment? In other words, could I take mine in and request to add the additional years to it? Or, do I just have to return next year and qualify again to extend. Previously, they never asked for income verification for renewals.

    Also, when you mention owning property as an optional condition, does that waive the income requirement.? What is that value based on? The value on the fideicomiso or a current evaluation based on assessments since many properties have been renovated and values change. If it is assessments, I am good. However, my notario/abogado/realtor all did me a great injustice by recording my value lower on the fideicomiso when I first bought my property…expecting they would do everything correctly, but not understanding that they were doing it “the way it’s always been done”. I would gladly have paid the additional amount to record the actual sales price and told them I wanted everything done “correctly”. Needless to say, I didn’t understand the implications of that and now and I am somewhat dismayed that they took it upon themselves to “save me some money” which will now come back to bite me should I sell. That being what it is, returning to my original question, how is the property valued?

    Thank you for any info.

    Kaye

    Reply
    • Kaye says:

      November 18, 2012 at 9:34 am

      One other note. Had I known that they were removing the time outside the country limitation, I would have applied for the Residente Permanente this last time. Always a day late and a dollar short.

      Reply
      • Kaye says:

        November 18, 2012 at 9:43 am

        Well, it appears you were answering the second half of my question as I composed it. ha ha. The home ownership valuation and requirement as the sole qualification. It seems to me, using the fideicomiso is not a very good option when so many properties have been improved far beyond the stated value when first purchased. 😦
      • yucalandia says:

        November 18, 2012 at 1:11 pm

        True, but with the low value listed on the Government’s records, you pay less in annual property taxes, but get zinged for 28% taxes on the difference between your original deed’s price and the new selling price.

        Did your Notario at least have you pay the optional 2% Acquisition Fee (tax) when you bought the property?

        If you paid the 2% Acquisition fee with the purchase, then the 2% fee is deductible when you sell, and you can depreciate the property 3%(?) per year as a tax deduction at the sale time, and if you get and keep facturas for all your improvements, then those remodeling costs are also deductible from those Capital Gains taxes when you sell. If you keep the property for 10 years before selling, you get a 30% deduction, and if you did another $1,000,000 pesos in improvements (documented by facturas), then you could deduct both amounts – taking a lot of sting out of the taxes at sale time.

        All of this stuff was described in our article from 2 years ago when the Mex. Gob. significantly changed the rules for Gains Taxes on Sales of Properties: https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/capital-gains-taxes-on-mexican-properties/

        If you read this article on Capital Gains, you will find that you could qualify for a Homeowners Waiver of all capital gains on the sale of the property, BUT your Notario must agree to sign-off, certifying and approving in writing that your home has been your primary physical residence and financial home (the city you make your income in) for the 5 years before the sale. Since your Notario screwed the pooch on handling the sale documents and $$ amounts, maybe you could get him to agree to give you the Homeowner’s Waiver of taxes on the sale as a resident homeowner???

        Remember that all of our advice is for educational and entertainment purposes only,
        because I am just a schmuck chemist who enjoys slogging through 100-s of pages of Government-speak legalese, in Spanish, to pull out the details and gems that seem interesting or possibly useful.
        You should talk with a talented real attorney or talented Notario to get actual legal or tax advice.
        steve
      • yucalandia says:

        November 18, 2012 at 1:23 pm

        Kaye,
        You did fine…

        NOBODY knew what the actual requirements would be for being allowed out of the country, until INM finally released the 250 page Lineamientos on November 8, 2012. Unless you were psychic, there was NO WAY to know these things when you applied in October, so you really did things OK.
        steve
    • yucalandia says:

      November 18, 2012 at 1:01 pm

      Kaye,
      Could you look carefully at the Immigration card you got in October?

      There were not supposed to be any Residente Temporal cards issued before the Nov. 8 start date. It is really unlikely that you have a Residente Temporal card. You most likely have a No Inmigrante card.

      This means that you will not be able to change over to a Residente Temporal until next October. If it is really urgent/important that you get a Residente Temporal card with a 4 year expiration date NOW, then you will need to abandon your current No Inmigrante status, surrender your current No Inmigrante card, and apply for a new Residente Temporal card by paying for 4 more years. Taking this approach does however cost you one year’s INM fees, because INM will not refund the fee you paid in Oct.

      If you meet the ownership of sufficient property qualifier, then you would not need to meet any income requirement. As written in our article above, you provide a copy of your deed to the property to confirm the value. Some INM offices are asking for a copy of your most recent Catastral document (the one you use to pay your property taxes/Predial).

      Your Notario did the previous owner of the property a big favor. By recording a falsely-low price on the deed, the previous owner owed less taxes on their profits ~ but this shifted the tax burden to you, when you sell the property in the future. Since the INM Lineamientos specifically list the required document as the “escritura publica“, the deed, then you may be stuck.

      Caveat Emptor We really do need to read documents before we sighn, whether we are in Canada, England, the USA, or Mexico. You could consult with a lawyer and see if there is anything that can be done.

      As my Polish grandpa used to say: Education costs money, and many times we do not even go to school for the new lessons.
      steve

      Reply
24. ranchosolymar says:

    November 18, 2012 at 10:43 am

    FM3 never had a limit on time outside of the country, so you can check that “woulda,coulda,shoulda” off your list.

    Reply
25. John Garvin says:

    November 19, 2012 at 4:32 pm

    Explaining Mexico’s new immigration laws. Much of it aimed at refugees.

    Click to access 12460.pdf

    Reply
26. John Garvin says:

    November 19, 2012 at 6:31 pm

    If a person has say 4 years on a FM-3 and 3 years on a FM-2 when they go for their next application for Temporary Resident permit (and do not want Permanent Resident) do they have to start over meaning do they have to prove income or is it considered a renewal based on the total of 7 years?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 19, 2012 at 8:21 pm

      John,
      This is one of those areas where the individual INM offices have each been handling things differently. Our local Merida INM office has been granting Residente Temporal to current FM3 and FM2 holders with no requirements to prove income nor bank statements. Other INM offices are requiring 6 months of bank statements to prove sufficient monthly income. The Manzanas INM office initially only required 3 months of statements, and then a jefe ordered them to change to 6 months (fitting the new rules), forcing the people who applied on Nov 9 – 14 to return with a full 6 months of statements.

      So, the answer to your very good question is that it will likely take several months for INM offices to settle into consistent procedures on items like this. In the meantime, check with your local INM office to find out their current requirements.
      steve

      Reply
27. John Garvin says:

    November 20, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    From a trip to San Miguel Immigration today:
    You can return with an expired FM visa up to 60 days late. You must have your passport stamped when you re-enter Mexico indicating you were out of the country. This is a must. Do not compete what we call a FMM or Visitor Visa. Explain the situation. there is no fine if within 60 days at time of renewal.

    Reply
28. John Garvin says:

    November 20, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    EXCELLENT Immigration news:

    From a meeting at immigration in San Miguel this morning:

    1. If you qualify for a Permanent Resident Visa based on income of ~$2500 / month you can do so at any time. You must again prove income with bank statements and supporting document/s showing source of income such as letters from US SS, Canadian CPP / OAS, employer pension, etc

    2. if you have 4 years on a FM-3 OR 4 years on a FM-2 you can apply for Permanent Resident at the end of the 4 years. You do NOT have to prove income. But it must be 4 years on one of these visas. it can not be 2 years on a FM-3 and 2 years on a FM-2. In this situation you only prove income once and not now.

    3. Proving income is done with both a bank statement for 6 months and supporting documents such as those named above.

    Reply
    • Linda Leonard says:

      November 24, 2012 at 7:43 am

      We went to the migration office here in Zihua yesterday to see what we need to do when we should renew our FM3’s at the beginning of January. We have had our FM3’s for 4 years, so we were told we would be given Permanent Resident status. However, we were also told we need to provide 6 months of bank statements. We weren’t told that they need to show anything in particular. Let’s see what happen on Jan. 3.

      Reply
      • Linda Leonard says:

        December 19, 2012 at 8:18 pm

        We have heard so many different stories, we decided to go back to migracion and check once more what we need to take with us in January. Different story- surprised?? Now they say we will be given temporal residency for 1 year, then we can apply for permanent resident. We were told 3 months of bank statements, but have not been told what those statements need to show. If this comes to be in January, will we need to show proof of income next year for our permanent residency?
29. ranchosolymar says:

    November 20, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Hope PV accepts the same.

    Reply
30. trishinmexico says:

    November 20, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Wow.. If what Jonn Garvin says holds true until March 2013, I’ll be the happiest preson in San Miguel!!!
    I’ve been chasing permanent status/citizenship for 13 years… This year march will be my 4th renewal on my Inmigrante (old FM2)…. So I hope this gets me in the door! I don’t quite qualify on any of the requirements.
    Great hopes… Thanks Jonh…

    Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      November 20, 2012 at 1:59 pm

      Hi Trish Sonia sent the same to you in an email. Best wishes.

      Reply

31. Pingback: INM Regional Office Requirements for Getting Mexican Residency and Immigration Rules | Surviving Yucatan

32. John Garvin says:

    November 22, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Near the top of this page you state:”Later, after they approve all your documents, they will have you return for fingerprinting, and they give you another form to take to the bank and pay $3,185 pesos for one year”. That should be 3815 pesos

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 22, 2012 at 2:24 pm

      Got it. I mistakenly inter-mixed the Temporal and Permanente clauses, creating some really clumsy text.
      THANKS!

      Reply
33. Lisa says:

    November 22, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    So I have someone working in Mexico and on FM3 – however we have noticed that the classification is “rentista” which does not allow him to work. All paperwork submited to our consular office in Candad showed the work he would be performing. All other FM3 provided with the correct classification it just appears the office here in Calgary made an error with this one. We are trying to get the local INM office to change the classification to Cargo Confianza and they agreed…..until today …when they are now asking for the following – any suggestions you can provide on how to expedite this change in the simplest manner possible. Can we bring him back to canada – cancel his current paperwork and have them reissue ?:

    1) Formato para empleadores, llenando de manera electrónica a través de la pagina de internet (www.inm.gob.mx), con firma autógrafa del promovente.

    2) A) Acta constitutiva o el instrumento público en el que se acredite la legal existencia de la persona moral, asi como sus modificaciones;

    B) Instrumento publico en el que conste el tipo de poder mandato y las facultades conferidas a los representantes legales o a los apoderados si el acta constitutiva no los contiene;

    C) Identificación oficial vigente del representante o apoderado legal; (IFE)

    D) Comprobante de domicilio de la persona moral, cuya fecha de expedición no exceda de treinta días;

    E) Constancia de incripcion en el Registro Federal de Contribuyentes (RFC) y constancia emitida por autoridad competente, sobre la presentación de la ultima declaración de impuestos, y

    F) Lista de empleados y su nacionalidad.

    Google translated version:

    1) Format for employers, filling out electronically via the website (www.inm.gob.mx), with the signature of the petitioner.

    2) A) Act constitutive or public instrument which certifies the legal existence of the corporation, and any amendments thereto; –

    B) A public document attesting to the type of mandate and powers conferred on the legal representatives or guardians if the charter does not contain them; .

    C) Identification of current official legal representative or agent (IFE); –

    D) Proof of address of the firm, whose date of issuance not exceeding thirty days; –
    ) Proof of inscription in the Federal Taxpayers Registry (RFC) and certification issued by competent authority on the submission of the last tax return, and –
    F) List of employees and their nationality. – They said that they would like a list of all our employees in Mexico and their nationalities.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 23, 2012 at 6:25 am

      Hi Lisa,
      Yes. Have they issued him a NUT? If so, on what date did they issue the NUT? Having a NUT signifies that they have officially started the application process. If he really does have an official application started with them, then you need to draft a letter in Spanish to abandon his current application.

      Your letter should have a format like the letters listed at the bottom of our old FMM, FM2, or FM3 article (https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/moving-to-mexico-fmm-fm2-or-fm3/) stating his name, his country and passport number, the NUT of his application, the NUE of any old INM ID, the old INM ID number (if he has one), and then state your purpose: Sr. _____ is abandoning his current application for the INM permit ______ (permit type). And BE SURE to add the little paragraph at the end, word-for-word, that certifies that he is being completely truthful- as many INM offices require a statement certifying veracity.

      Once they accept his abandoning the prior application, You can then immediately start another one under the new rules, under a type of Tarjeta de Residencia that better fits his needs. Can he qualify for a Residente Permanente Tarjeta de Residencia ? That category allows the holder to work, unrestricted – simply getting his RFC from Hacienda in Mexico.
      All the best,
      steve

      Reply
34. Lisa says:

    November 23, 2012 at 7:09 am

    it is already complete – we did not notice as all the others were given differently. Is there any way to change it now and void the current? How do we effectively move them from the Old system of FM3 to the Residente Temporal ?

    Reply
35. John Garvin says:

    November 23, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    FYI the Hotline, as of today, is quite adamant that time on previous FM-3/2 does not count towards Permanent Resident. Only the time on your current visa.

    Reply
36. John Garvin says:

    November 23, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    From the Gualajara Reporter:
    Immigration chief opens up on confusing new rules
    Friday, November 23 2012 11:26 Dale Hoyt Palfrey

    The full implementation of Mexico’s Ley de Migracion (immigration law) has caused quite a stir among many of the foreign nationals to whom it pertains. While some are downright furious about modified requirements, the majority seem to be quite befuddled over the personal implications. A precious few are just taking it all in stride and waiting for the dust to settle.

    As promised, Chapala’s National Immigration Institute (INM) office chief Juan Carlos Galvan sat down late last week for a Reporter interview to help clarify key points of confusion.

    “It’s understandable that many people are very disconcerted,” he said for openers. “At the end of the day, it’s basically all about modernizing the law and improving procedures to put Mexico on a par with international immigration standards.”

    Getting down to brass tacks, Galvan honed in on several recommendations that probably won’t do much to soothe those who are most agitated and addled.

    “I want to underscore that every foreigner should read the law and its regulations. It’s an obligation to have knowledge of the content—not interpret it, but be familiar with what it says.”

    (For reference, pertinent website sources are listed below.)

    Additional advice: At this early stage don’t bother asking about what the changes mean for people who have foreign-plated vehicles admitted under temporary import permits. New guidelines from Aduana (Customs) have not yet been defined. Standing rules apply until that happens and no dire consequences should emerge due to the void.

    The same goes for the point system mentioned in the new law as a pathway to permanent residency. It will remain irrelevant until fully spelled out in procedural guidelines.

    Galvan’s final recommendation is to erase obsolete terminology from your vocabulary. This particularly refers to familiar terms for different kinds of Mexican immigration documents.

    He points out that all INM papers issued prior to November 9 that remain valid according to the given expiration are automatically categorized according to the Condiciones de Estancia (conditions of stay) laid out under the new system. It’s a done deal, so there’s no need to consult or deal with INM.

    Comparing new permit labels (in bold face) versus the previous ones, the conversion works out as follows:

    – Residente Temporal (temporary resident): now equivalent to former status Inmigrante, No Inmigrante Visitante, Ministro de Culto and Corresponsal for a stay of one year.

    – Residente Temporal Estudiante (temporary student resident): equivalent to No Inmigrante Estudiante.

    – Residente Permanente (permanent resident): equivalent to Inmigrado and No Inmigrante Refugiado or Asilado.

    – Visitante sin permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas (visitor without permission to engage in paid activities: equivalent to No Inmigrante Turista, Transmigrante, Persona de Negocios, Visitante Distinguido and FMM documents valid for up to 180 days.

    – Visitante con permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas (visitor with permission to engage in paid activities): equivalent to Visitante con actividad lucrativa with FMM documents valid for up to 180 days.

    (Particular nuances for each condition will be covered in a follow-up story in next week’s Reporter.)

    Income requirements

    At this point, the stickiest issue for most expats concerns steep hikes in income requirements that have come into effect for persons wishing to qualify for temporary or permanent residency as retirees or pensioners.

    The rates are based on current minimum wage (SM) figures: average monthly income of 400 times SM (around $1,900 USD) for temporary status and 500 times SM (around $2,400 USD) for permanent status. (Today’s SM is set at 62.33 pesos)

    Alternately, proof of sufficient personal investments calculated over the previous year is acceptable. Doing the math, at the moment it works out to an average worth of around $96,000 USD for temporary status and $120,000 USD for permanent status.

    “There’s logic to this,” Galvan explains. “People who want to live here under either condition need to have the means to do so.”

    The good news is that ownership of real property may be factored into investment holdings. Also, individuals who were square with INM before November 9 as temporary residents won’t have to meet higher income brackets until the four year period they qualified for runs out. Permanent residents are totally off the hook.

    On the down side, he says new guidelines do not specify considerations to lower the bar for spouses or other immediate family members. That aspect might be contemplated as policies evolve.

    For the time being, local attorneys specializing in immigration matters appear to be reserving judgment on how business with INM will eventually pan out. New questions arising day to day will be answered as decisions on individual cases are resolved. Stay tuned.

    INM information on line

    Migration Law, full text:

    http://www.diputados.gob.mx/LeyesBiblio/pdf/LMigra.pdf

    Migration Law Regulations, full text: http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5270615&fecha=28/09/2012

    Condensed overview: http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/marco_juridico/pdf/Ley_de_Migracion_y_Reglamento.pdf

    Procedural guidelines, full text: http://www.dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5276967&fecha=08/11/2012

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 23, 2012 at 6:32 pm

      Good Stuff !

      All of the items sure seem to fit with the current descriptions we have in the article above.
      I’m off to read the pdf of the summaries.
      THANKS !
      steve

      Reply
37. John Garvin says:

    November 24, 2012 at 6:36 am

    Having property in Mexico worth at least $196,000.00 US gets you to Temporary or Permanent Resident?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 24, 2012 at 6:55 am

      Temporary Residency. For now, because we don’t know the rules for the Points System.

      Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 26, 2012 at 10:29 pm

      Having property in Mexico worth at least $196,000.00 US (at 13:1) gets you to Residente Temporal.

      Reply
38. John Garvin says:

    November 24, 2012 at 6:38 am

    Having proof of investments or savings with an average worth over the previous year equivalent to $96,000.00 US gets one to a Temporary Resident?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 24, 2012 at 6:55 am

      Correct: Works for Residente Temporal.

      Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 26, 2012 at 10:26 pm

      Yes.

      Reply
39. John Garvin says:

    November 24, 2012 at 6:39 am

    Having proof of investments or savings with an average worth over the previous year equivalent to $120,000.00 US gets one to a Permanent Resident?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 24, 2012 at 7:23 am

      John,
      You are a gem.

      … and exactly right about my typo (of cutting and pasting “Permanente” mistakenly in 2 spots of the Residente TEMPORAL section of proving fiscal independence… THANKS !

      I have fixed the Residente Temporal required assets section to delete in incorrect references to “Permanente”- so

      Yes, Residente Temporal offers the opportunity to use sufficient Mexican Real Estate, or sufficient monthly income, or sufficient annual average account balances to prove financial independence.

      …. Edited after-the-fact to remove a mistaken comment I made….
      Best to root out the weeds, and not have readers even temporarily adopt my errors…
      
      THANKS,
      steve

      Reply
      • John Garvin says:

        November 24, 2012 at 8:38 am

        Steve I ask also because Rolly and the head of Immigration in Jalisco / Chapalastate 25,000 x Mexico City daily minimum wage averaged of 12 months gets you to Permanent Resident
      • John Garvin says:

        November 24, 2012 at 4:39 pm

        Steve you have the same amount under Temporary Resident as Permanent resident:

        Residente Permanente Income or Deposits or Bank Balance Requirements:
        (Lineamientos Article 44)
        ~ Documentation of Proof of Financial Independence by Average Bank Balance: Provide the 12 months of original bank statements (plus copies) as proof of income or savings/investments, to show equivalent to twenty thousand days of the general minimum wage in the District Federal for the previous twelve months…
        … Average Monthly Balance of about $95,892 USD ($1,246,600 pesos) at $13:1 MXN:USD for Residente Permanente.
      • yucalandia says:

        November 25, 2012 at 9:04 am

        We have Temporary Resident Monthly Deposits listed at $1,918 USD ($24,932 pesos)
        We have Permanent Resident Monthly Deposits listed at $2,397 USD ($31,165 pesos)

        We have Temporary Resident Average Annual Balance listed at $95,892 USD ($1,246,600 pesos)
        We NOW have Permanent Resident Average Annual Balance listed at $119,865 USD ($1,558,250 pesos).

        My math was fine. I stubbed my toe when reading the regs, and accidently read 20 Thousand days for both categories.

        For those who like original source material for John’s very good insight:
        Changing from Visitante to Residente Temporal (Lineamientos Article 41)
        Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos doce meses;

        Changing from Residente Temporal to Residente Permanente (Lineamientos Article 44)
        Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinticinco mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos doce meses,

        Thanks for hanging in there and providing really good advice and help,
        steve
40. John Garvin says:

    November 26, 2012 at 7:41 am

    Something to consider … If you are selling or intend to sell a property I suggest you talk to a Notario. Some Notario’s are reporting if you want to avoid capital gains in Mexico the seller must now be a Permanent Resident. This can have major financial implications.

    What also happened is some buyers (now sellers) recorded a low purchase price to pay less property taxes. This may make capital gains tax burden even greater.

    If you are selling or contemplating selling being a Permanent Resident may be beneficial. This is the area of expertise of a notario and I advise you contact one.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 26, 2012 at 11:02 am

      Amen, John !

      This is exactly why we wrote the article on Capital Gains taxes on Properties in Mexico: https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/capital-gains-taxes-on-mexican-properties/

      and Income Tax Liabilities in Mexico: https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/income-tax-liabilities-in-mexico/

      Good, good advice, because if you Notario will not approve and certify your status as a Resident Homeowner, you can owe up to 28% of the difference between the value listed on your deed (often an artificially low amount entered to save the previous owner tax $$) vs your current selling price… An no, unless you kept facturas for every repair or update, you cannot deduct the remodeling costs.
      steve

      Reply
41. John Garvin says:

    November 26, 2012 at 11:14 am

    We just came from immigration in SMA. They will now consider total time on visas in applying for Permanent Resident. You can not have a break between visas and no fines nor going beyond an expiration date. We are told this is a national change.

    Mexico City will review the request.

    So, if say 3 years on a FM-3 and then 1 on a FM-2 meeting the conditions I noted with no penalties etc, you can apply for Permanent Resident and no need to prove income.

    Sonia Diaz

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 26, 2012 at 12:03 pm

      Sweet…. Really good update !

      Reply
      • John Garvin says:

        November 26, 2012 at 12:30 pm

        Of course helps to have my Mexican wife Sonia who is also a facilitator.
42. John Garvin says:

    November 26, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    The Permanent Resident process is two steps. The first takes 2 weeks, you pay 1000 pesos and requires photos and application forms.

    According to Immigration mine is the first to be approved locally. Staff are very helpful and learning.

    The approval as noted is 2 weeks. Once approved, another form is required, payment of 3815 pesos, 2 more photos and finger prints.

    An additional 2 weeks is required to receive your Permanent Resident visa.

    So allow up to 5 weeks plus any holiday time.

    Reply
43. readingterminal says:

    November 26, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    Hmm… no fines huh, to maintain continuity. So I am on my 3rd refrendo now, but I had to pay a fine prior to get the 2ndo refrendo of the then FM2 as I misunderstood the requirement to be to renew within 30 days after the expiration, rather than the actual requirement to start renewal up to 30 days prior to expiration.
    Ok, so I paid the fine, then got what is stated to be the 2nd refrendo, by the Nov. 26 update language I guess that means I have just 2 continous years under my belt when I get near my current expiration date, right? Well, I am not sure about that. Somehow I do not believe that type of fine for that infraction makes my immigration status discontinuous, or it would not be the second renewal. So my question, fines for what infraction make the periods of immigration status discontinuous, not counting towards the 4 years to apply for permanent resident?
    Oh well, the devil is indeed in the details.

    Reply
44. John Garvin says:

    November 26, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    Every Immigration office has some latitude so I am just quoting what was told this morning here in SMA. Ask at your local office as this practice is a revision based on what I was told. Compared to a Mexican trying to even travel to the US let alone live there such as my wife this is amazing and cheap.

    Reply
45. Barry says:

    November 26, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    Just to update you with the current procedure as we experienced it today in Puerto Vallarta:
    – If renewal no financial documents required you can apply 30 days before and seems that a change now is that it seems you can apply up to 55 days after expiry with no penalty.
    – If like us you had a 1 year FM3 last year you can use that 1 year towards the 4 year permanent resident category. It does not matter how many FM3’s that you had prior.
    – We took out a 3 year temporary visa at a cost of $5,940MP per person. This gives us the option after 3 years of taking out either Temporary or Permanent residency and also let us see more clearly at that time the advantages/disadvantages of both.
    – If you have an FM2 it appears that the length of time on that may be counted towards your 4 year residency requirement
    Procedure
    – Pull up Internet form on http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php/page/Solicitud_de_Estancia
    – Line 1 enter Extender la Estancia
    – Line 2 enter Expedicion de Tarjeta de residente por Renovacion
    – NUE? – tick box and when prompted enter your NUE which you will find top right corner of your current FM3. The form will then auto complete for you
    – You have to confirm that the information is correct then print it off and take to Immigration
    – You also need to take your Passport and FM3 together with a photocopy of the passport information page and a photocopy of both sides of the FM3. I also had a copy of my recent utility bill in case but they did not need it.
    – You need the required photos. Just go to Soriana down the street from Immigration and tell them you want Immigration photos and they will do them while you wait for 30 pesos.
    – Go to Immigration at the Cruise Ship Terminal and line up to see to the English speaking lady seated at a desk on the left and she will check your application and provide a personalised Spanish cover letter for you. She will also provide you with a Form Basico for you to complete and a form for you to take to the Bank to pay your Visa fee.
    – Return to Immigration from the Bank with original and one copy of the payment receipt and sign in the visitor book where you enter your a turn number from the Federal policeman and take a seat.
    – When your number is called take your document package to the clerk who will check it/ stamp it, return your Passport and provide you with a stamped receipt that shows you the website address and NUT reference number. She told us to check on that site in about 2 weeks as they will notify us there when our Visa is ready for pickup.
    In summary the new process is smoother and less complex than before. The Brokers no longer have priority over anyone. They have to line up with the rest of us. The English speaking Immigration lady is a sweetheart – really patient and helpful. If you have everything organised you can do it an about 2/3 hours. The waiting room is clean, air-conditioned and more chairs than before.

    Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      November 26, 2012 at 5:40 pm

      Barry they just changed the rules and they should have counted all past visas allowing you to go to Permanent Resident if you have 4 years of continuous visas.

      Reply
      • Barry says:

        November 26, 2012 at 10:24 pm

        Yes I tried to point out without success that I have had 4 previous Fm3’s – their postion was only the validity of the most recent – 1 year could count towards residency requirements. So as I have now processed as temporary resident I think I will be best to leave it that way and then in 3 years my options of temporary versus permanent will also be clearer.
      • yucalandia says:

        November 26, 2012 at 10:33 pm

        Hi Barry,
        Yes, only the SMA INM office is so far reporting that they will combine years from different permits (including successive FM3s) towards qualifying for Residente Permanente. Unofficial reports out of SMA are saying that INM SMA thinks this interpretations should be adopted nationwide, but who knows…

        Thanks for the good information update. What INM office gave you this ruling?
        steve
46. valene says:

    November 26, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    On Nov 20th, John Garvin wrote about what he learned at a meeting In San Miguel D. In that posting he mentioned that, if you meet the financial requirements, you do not need to wait four years to go Permanente. Has anyone found this not to be true when applying? I was supposed to meet my lawyer to review all of my documentation today, but she is sick. I seem to know more than she does, from what I learned on this site! I would like to hear of at least one success storey!

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 26, 2012 at 9:55 pm

      Hi Valene,
      Because there are over 400 pages of Spanish government-speak legalese to tackle in 4 documents: the Law, the Reglamento, and 2 Lineamientos documents, and because the Lineamientos were released just one day before the INM offered the new program to the public, I suspect most lawyers have struggled to digest all of it. We have a 3 decades of experience digesting and crystallizing legislation publication, along with a 1000 pages or so a week of contracts and SOPs, so, we might have a leg up in this area of understanding the overlapping descriptions of rules from a formal centralized D.F. perspective. In another quirk of irony, hundreds of expats across Mexico have been going into their local INM offices and pushing the information-envelope on the issues most important to expats this past 2 weeks – with special emphasis on the items that are not clearly defined in the Law/Reglamento/Lineamientos combination. By daily surveying expat forum reports from across Mexico, sorting out the good reliable reports from the less-reliable mis-translation related ones, the efforts of hundreds of people have been concentrated into focused multi-location distillations of how things are actually working, so we get to harness the power of the internet – where a lawyer probably cannot formally use this source material. Plus, lawyers have an obligation to get it precisely right, before they advise people – while we can give our insights based on best-available-knowledge at the time, and then change and adjust our insights and descriptions as the knowledge of INM’s new procedures evolve and are resolved.

      We also have a handful of really fine professional contributors, including 2 attorneys, working separately and together to identify and resolve answers to some of the knotty problems, and pushing me to refine and polish our presentation, while individual attorneys are likely working alone. Finally, I have to give credit to our local Merida INM office for giving crystal clear, concise, and accurate answer to our questions posed to their personnel.

      We have read one reliable report from a good expat that they were approved by their Consulate for a visa to come to Mexico and get a Residente Permanente, with no prior residency in Mexico, and they further reported that their INM office in SMA had accepted their application – but no word yet on a Tarjeta de Residencia being issued yet for this case. Finally, we identified and wrote about this option back in May 2011, as a clear part of the new Law, but there is no direct mention of it in the Lineamientos, unless you conclude that it is covered by the “Points System”.

      I mention all this to soften some of the expectations and criticisms about how slowly Mexican lawyers have been to come up to speed on the new regulations.

      Maybe you will be the first documented case?
      All the best,
      steve

      Reply
47. Joe says:

    November 27, 2012 at 4:44 am

    “We have read one reliable report from a good expat that they were approved by their Consulate for a visa to come to Mexico and get a Residente Permanente, with no prior residency in Mexico, and they further reported that their INM office in SMA had accepted their application – but no word yet on a Tarjeta de Residencia being issued yet for this case. Finally, we identified and wrote about this option back in May 2011, as a clear part of the new Law, but there is no direct mention of it in the Lineamientos, unless you conclude that it is covered by the “Points System”.”

    I think when all is said and done it will turn out that the direct to permanent residency based on financial self-sufficiency route will be open. If this proves to be true it will be in part because of the difference between what logic tells people should be so, and what the law simply says is so. There has been discussion of the illogic of allowing someone to apply for permanent residence in Mexico, perhaps without ever having even visited Mexico (as an extreme case) but, so far as I can see, the law lays down no requirement for proof that you know anything at all about Mexico, if you´re qualifying on a financially self-sufficient basis; nor does it require that you actually spend any significant amount of time in Mexico, after having obtained this legal status. Put simply, it has little to do with our common concept of what constitutes residency in a country, which is usually based on physical presence.

    On a related subject, nowhere have I seen in the forums dealing with this topic a discussion of the potential tax implications for a foreigner who takes up the legal status of permanent resident: no longer will he be able to maintain that he is not a resident for tax purposes, thus subjecting himself to the laws of Mexican Taxation. Will this matter? I´ll leave that to those more familiar with Mexican Tax Law.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 27, 2012 at 7:37 am

      Joe,
      Whether you have Permanent Residency or not, foreigners living in Mexico have always had tax liabilities, beyond property taxes or IVA’s.

      Investment income is taxed. Capital Gains are taxed, corporate dividends are taxed, rental income is taxed. etc etc. One basic premise of the Tax Treaty between the US and Mexico: Any income you receive on which you are not already paying taxes back in the USA, is potentially taxable in Mexico for Mexican Residents.

      Deloitte has a decent primer on Mexican taxes in English at http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-Global/Local%20Assets/Documents/Tax/Taxation%20and%20Investment%20Guides/2012/dttl_tax_guide_2012_Mexico.pdf . Personally, the Mexicans we know and work with say that the Mexican tax system is so complex, that it is better to simply hire a good tax attorney, and have them handle things. Consider honarariums for example…

      What insights do you have from the foreigner’s perspective on tax liabilities?

      Reply
      • Linda Leonard says:

        November 27, 2012 at 2:25 pm

        When you said ” Any income you receive on which you are not already paying taxes back in the USA, is taxable in the USA.” did you mean to say “is taxable in Mexico”???
      • yucalandia says:

        November 27, 2012 at 3:31 pm

        Linda,
        Correct. Thanks for reporting the error. I have fixed this typo.
        THANKS, steve
48. Barry says:

    November 27, 2012 at 7:16 am

    My experience was based on the INM office in Puerto Vallarta

    Reply
    • Barry says:

      December 7, 2012 at 1:37 pm

      To update you with our progress – Visa application approved after 9 working days – had to go to Immigration office and line up for our turn and then fingerprints of all fingers both hands taken – Visa package now has to go to Mexico City for issuance of Visa – anticipated that it will be available in 15 working days. Of course we are now entering the holiday season so anticipate it being ready some time later in January. If we need to leave the country while this is being processed we have to get a temporary authority valid for return within 60 days at a cost of $320 MP

      Reply
49. Joe says:

    November 27, 2012 at 8:29 am

    ¨What insights do you have from the foreigner’s perspective on tax liabilities?¨

    Certainly the U.S. wants to tax the income of U.S. persons where ever they may live, and Mexico wants to tax the income derived in Mexico. Where it gets trickier is on the question of taxation of world wide income of foreigners, holding the status of permenent resident in Mexico. There is an exemption for certain of foreigners´ income from abroad which is written into Mexican Tax Law and, if you´re not a citizen of Mexico, you´re clearly a ¨foreigner¨ for the purposes of this exemption, but what is not so clear to me is what happens when you assume the status of permanent resident, as ¨foreigness¨ begins to be a little more muddied, especially when coupled with physical presence in Mexico more than 180 days in 360 (the point at which you become subject to Mexican Tax, and the information provided when you sign up with Hacienda points that out: this harmonizes with the tax law of all the jurisdictions I´ve lived in, thus far, and must be an international standard for establishing residency for taxation purposes).

    Like many countries, Mexico has a provision that says if you do not declare the foreign income on your Mexican Tax return, and claim it as exempt, you lose the exemption. It may just be that no one has ever tested this by declaring their foreign investment income, pension income, or social security income, derived from abroad, on their Mexican Tax return, if they file one.

    Like I said, this is a question for those better versed in Mexican Tax Law than me, and there may be a reason why this is not an issue, as a matter of Mexican Tax Law: I´ll leave it to them.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 27, 2012 at 12:46 pm

      Joe,
      Solid insights, that fit our understandings too.

      Many times the person asking the supposedly “simple question” often happens to know more than the so-called “expert” they are consulting with. I think this is one of those cases, especially when personal experience trumps theoretical or strictly legal evaluations.

      Have you read our older article on Income Tax Liabilities in Mexico for Foreigners? at https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/income-tax-liabilities-in-mexico/ This article focuses on issues faced by expats from the perspectives of the previous INM Inmigrante, No Inmigrante, and Inmigrado permits. but the basic principles still apply… You might also check out our article on Capital Gains taxes for Foreigners, when they buy or sell Mexican properties. e.g. How you handle the purchase can either cost you or save you $60,000 – $100,000 USD later when you try to sell your Mexican home. See our Capital Gains Taxes article atL https://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/capital-gains-taxes-on-mexican-properties/ . In addition to the references in these articles, you might find http://www.taxmeless.com/MEXICO.htm and http://www.taxmeless.com/page4.html helpful?

      For readers who are thinking, Just what are Joe and Steve fussing about?, consider:

      Can you tell us: Just where is your home?….

      Is it your Tax Home?
      Is it the property you call “home”?
      Is it your principal place of Fiscal Activity?
      Is it the locale where you have full voting rights?
      Is it the place where you have been the past 183 days?
      Is it the place where you spent at least 183 days last year?
      Is it the place that you can sell, and then claim a homeowner’s exemption on any Capital Gains taxes?

      If you know the best answers, and why, then read no further. If you hesitated on even one of the 7 questions, then it might be worth reading on…

      It turns out that there are different-but-equally-valid-and-legal answers to each of these questions. Further, your answer should depend who is asking you, and when they are asking.

      e.g. To do things well, you should give different answers if you are responding to
      ~ US-CIS,
      ~ different answers for Hacienda,
      ~ yet different answers to US-CBP,
      ~ other answers for INM’s purposes,
      ~ totally unique answers to US-IRS, and
      ~ different answers for SRE’s question, and
      ~ different answers to US-State Dept/Consular Officials, and
      ~ yet still different answers to your local voting precinct officials…

      Not to be cute, but the answers you give may either:
      ~ get you deported, … or save you from deportation…
      ~ allow you to enter a country… or get your entry denied…
      ~ cost you $10,000’s of dollars in taxes owed, … or save you $10,000’s in taxes avoided,
      ~ cost you $25,000 to $50,000 in IRS penalties, not counting interest and bad-faith penalties, or have you owe nothing.
      ~ trigger a decade of IRS audits going back into time, and continuing forward for another decade, or avoid IRS problems
      ~ allow you to vote, … or have your voting rights suspended
      ~ trigger tax problems with Hacienda, of which I have no ideas of the consequences
      ~ cause you to be detained by ICE officers for hours and hours in the basement of some US airport …
      ~ …???

      In addition to these issues, consider the issues that Joe raised, where your choice of Residente Permanente vs Residente Temporal may dramatically affect the future taxes you may owe or avoid, based on your choice at INM today.

      Anyway, this all provides more grist for our mills, and raises the issue of a need for an updated article on tax liabilities ?
      steve

      Reply
      • Joe says:

        November 27, 2012 at 2:11 pm

        Not cute at all, Steve, very much to the point: knowing how to deal with these questions is important in an increasingly complex world.
50. Joe says:

    November 27, 2012 at 8:48 am

    Just a little note to correct the way I expressed an idea above, I should have said, ¨If you are a citizen, you are clearly not a foreigner….¨ (and where it gets muddied is…).

    Reply
51. John Garvin says:

    November 27, 2012 at 11:39 am

    In San Miguel Immigration staff are saying for Permanent Resident when a couple each must prove $2400 / month. For Temporary Resident each must prove 1900 per month. Any one else with knowledge regarding double income for a couple?

    Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      November 27, 2012 at 3:02 pm

      Hotline says $1900 per single for couple for TR and $2400 for PR. No additional income required for a couple vs a single person.

      Reply
52. John Garvin says:

    November 28, 2012 at 6:44 am

    From Los Angeles Consulate:
    • Valid Passport (original and one copy).
    • Letter addressed to the Consulate General of Mexico, stating that you are rentista or retired, and that you are willing to reside in Mexico. The letter must be typed in or translated into Spanish, and should include:
    • Your request to have a retiring or rentista resident card.
    • Date of travel and port of entry.
    • Address in Mexico.
    • Proof of economic solvency through a letter from a bank institution (last three bank statements), stating that your retirement pension or earnings, is in the uninterrupted amount of $2,000.00 dollars or more a month. Add 25% more for each additional dependent family member.
    • Passport size pictures: 2 front and 1 right profile
    • Payment of consular fee:
    • Consular visa $36.00 Dollars applicable to some nationalities.
    • Applicant must be present in order to submit paperwork.

    • If you are planning on taking your household goods, you have 6 months to apply for a stamp. You need to present an itemized list (4 copies) of your belongings, typed in Spanish, in columns, at single spacing, with the description of each item. Electrical appliances must include name, brand, model, and serial number. For example:
    CANTIDAD ARTICULO MARCA MODELO NO. DE SERIE
    1 refrigerador Kenmore 234234234 A36548
    1 televisión RCA 989251883 X16896
    1 comedor de madera de 5 piezas
    3 cajas de utensilios de cocina
    4 cajas de ropa

    • Payment of consular stamp:
    • $127.00 Dollars

    Applications are accepted Monday through Friday from 7:00 to 10:00 am.

    The payments are: cash, credit or debit card or money order

    Reply
    • ranchosolymar says:

      November 28, 2012 at 9:01 am

      Is this for Temporal?

      Holly Hunter CFP http://www.VistaMagicaVacationRentals.com http://www.RanchoSolYMar.com US Address: P.O. Box 36 Portsmouth, NH 03802

      “Worry is praying for what you don’t want”.

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        November 28, 2012 at 9:33 am

        Yes, this article describes the procedures and requirements for Residente Temporal Tarjeta de Residente applicants.
        steve
      • ranchosolymar says:

        November 28, 2012 at 9:35 am

        I have followed all of your posts here, but have now forgotten the requirement to obtain citizenship? We have 5 yrs FM3 and last year upped our FMs to Lucrativa. Thanks, Holly

        Holly Hunter CFP http://www.VistaMagicaVacationRentals.com http://www.RanchoSolYMar.com US Address: P.O. Box 36 Portsmouth, NH 03802

        “Worry is praying for what you don’t want”.
      • yucalandia says:

        November 28, 2012 at 9:49 am

        Best not to mix the 2 in your mind: SRE (equivalent to the US State Dept) governs naturalization processes, not INM/SEGOB (equivalent to US CIS-CBP/Homeland Security). SSRE’s naturalized citizenship policies are broadly written enough to really not require re-writing to accommodate the new INM changes, in our humble opinion.

        We can describe the basic requirements for citizenship applicants if needed, but I think they are already listed in our articles: 6 months of valid INM visa remaining, Spanish competency, no excessive stays outside of Mexico, detailed knowledge of Mexican History for under 60 year olds, special exemptions for foreign family members and foreign spouses of Mexicans, etc.
        steve
      • ranchosolymar says:

        November 28, 2012 at 10:05 am

        Hmmmm, now I’m worried again! I thought time out of the country (the old fm2 issue) had been eliminated. So,if you can now go from fm3 to Nationalized/Citizen directly without fm2, how or why would there be an out of country penalty? How much time out is excessive, how would it be determined since in the past it was something like 18 months out of 60 mos allowed. This very much impacts us as we have a property in Maine that we do work on pre and post rental season and now 2 grandkids. We also have 2 house for sale in GTO and would love the preferred tax treatment of citizens. Thanks again! Ps referred a Mex lawyer to your site.

        Holly Hunter CFP http://www.VistaMagicaVacationRentals.com http://www.RanchoSolYMar.com US Address: P.O. Box 36 Portsmouth, NH 03802

        “Worry is praying for what you don’t want”.
      • yucalandia says:

        November 28, 2012 at 3:03 pm

        Holly,
        Time out of the country has always mattered to SRE, which is why they check passport pages for legible stamps. e.g. SRE has rejected some past applications, because some of applicant’s passport stamps were illegible. Continuing: If in their opinion you have been outside of Mexico in the years before applying for citizenship, then you likely really are not serious about residing full time in Mexico, and they question your motivations for applying for citizenship(?). So, the 18 months again was an INM requirement, not SRE…

        This is why some people find citizenship almost impossible to get at some SRE offices. e.g. At our office, there is a history of any applicant who comes with a helper/friend/lawyer/family member to start the initial application, and if that helper does even light interpretation, then the SRE agent quietly checks a box that says: Applicant not able to speak and understand commonly spoken Spanish…. and their application is eventually rejected – due to the applicant not managing the spoken Spanish parts of the first visit. I am not trying to scare you, but to get you to see a good local attorney who KNOWS how your SRE office works – and not rely on things “I heard from someone” and not rely on advice from the internet or from forums.

53. Pingback: Precedents for Aduana to Restrict Permanent Residents from Keeping TIP Cars | Surviving Yucatan

54. trishinmexico says:

    November 28, 2012 at 10:04 am

    I think the SRE rules still list 5 years with an FM2 (or less with Meican spouse)? I imagine that they will change that to Residente Permanete?
    Thanks, Trish.

    Reply
55. John Garvin says:

    November 28, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    I talked to the head of Immigration in person today, Lic Villalpando. The amount of income for a Temporary Resident is $1900 for 1 and $3600 for 2! He showed us the manual. There is no break for being a couple.
    The same applies to Permanent Resident $2400 for one and $4800 for a couple.
    Thankfully, those with an existing visa get grandfathered and simply wait to become permanent resident and not prove income.
    This totally contradicts the Hotline and many consulates.

    Reply
    • Linda Leonard says:

      November 28, 2012 at 2:06 pm

      Well it seems that this whole thing is a real mess. We went into the immigration office here in Zihuatanejo to see what we would need when our renewal date for our FM3’s arrives in January. We were told we qualified for permanent residency status & just needed to bring new photos and 6 months of bank statements. They didn’t mention what the bank statements should reflect. I guess we need to go back in and ask that specifically in case we need to take proof of investment money, or proof of owning our condo, because our pensions combined do not amount to 4800/month. Any advice?

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        November 28, 2012 at 3:05 pm

        Hi Linda,
        I would relax, and wait to see how things shake out in your office. Their procedures and internal requirements may change over the next month.
        steve
56. A. Ceniceros says:

    November 28, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    My husband is a Mexican Citizen. If I moved with him to Mexico, would I be required to show proof of income in order to obtain resident status, or could I obtain it as his dependant?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 28, 2012 at 10:00 pm

      Hi A.
      There are too many things we do not know about you to answer your question. For typical spouses of Mexican citizens, you would need to apply for and complete 2 full years of Residente Temporal. Do you have a current FM2 or FM3? How many years have you completed on your current INM permit?
      Hope that gives you a starting point,
      steve

      Reply
      • A. Ceniceros says:

        November 29, 2012 at 8:03 am

        Thank you for replying. I don’t have any type of residency as of yet. We are still residing in the United States. I was just curious as to what the first step would be if we moved there.
    • John Garvin says:

      November 29, 2012 at 5:44 am

      My answer is”no” for Temporary Resident based on: Proof of a any familiar bond with another Temporary or Permanent Resident or a marital (or equivalent) bond with a Mexican;

      Reply
      • Rosie Campos says:

        December 2, 2012 at 7:18 am

        I’m in the same situation as A. Ceniceros and from the research I’ve done, I see that this is the case across the board with the new law. NO requirement for proof of income for spouses of Mexicans. 🙂
      • A. Ceniceros says:

        December 3, 2012 at 9:39 am

        Thanks Rosie Campos. So I could get resident status without proving that I have an income apart from my husband?
57. Bill Phelan says:

    November 28, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    Steve,
    I contacted the Mexican embassy consular office here in Washington DC yesterday and they informed me I would need a “letter of non criminal record” in addition to other items you lsted when applying for residente temporale for the first time. In Maryland when you go to the police for this, they tell you, that you need a full blown, fingerprint, FBI background check. You might want to add this as a possible requirement for first time applicants, so people are aware. We leave Dec 9 for Mx so I will not be getting resident status, as there is not enough time to obtain the criminal background check before leaving.
    Bill Phelan

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 28, 2012 at 10:20 pm

      Hi Bill,
      Long time no hear. How are you?

      Thanks for the very good update. I hesitate to make any broad announcements, because we have not heard of this requirement from any other Mexican Consulates. 4 years ago, back when Consulates used to handle these requests, some Consulates required the statement from your local law enforcement authority while others did NOT. Further, the local law enforcement officials out West, were willing to write letters certifying that you had no criminal record in their jusrisdiction, nor in their State.

      Maybe since Maryland is so close to DC, they are adding the unnecessary requirements of FBI background checks. I personally would contact a Consulate far from DC – like the Orlando Fla Mexican Consulate. Ask them what documents they require for meeting the proof of no criminal activity – and ask how their Florida law enforcement officials handle the issue. If you can find some good precedents from other law enforcement agencies that FBI background checks are unnecessary, maybe, just maybe you could get the Maryland fuzz to reduce their requirements. Who made the ruling of needing FBI checks? a low level clerk/policeman? If an underling told you this, go up the chain?… talk to a supervisor… and then talk to a manager, and then talk to a Chief, and then talk to a Superintendent… going up the chain to try to unknot this unreasonable requirement???

      All the best,
      steve

      Reply
      • Nicole says:

        February 4, 2013 at 5:06 pm

        “Contact a consulate”? I have tried contacting the San Diego Consulate four times via their messaging tool on their web site and twice by phone (leaving voice mail). They never replied, and others I have heard from since then say “forget it – they will not.” All I want is to know just what documents to take to them to apply for a temp. residency visa, before I waste 2 days (traveling there from MX and spending the night, due to their inconvenient early hours) applying. 😦
      • yucalandia says:

        February 4, 2013 at 5:43 pm

        Hi Nicole,
        I do not know what the San Diego Consulate is requiring.

        You could take the items listed by the Mexican Consulate in Los Angeles :
        From Los Angeles Consulate for Retired applicants:
        • Valid Passport (original and one copy).
        • Letter addressed to the Consulate General of Mexico, stating that you are rentista or retired, and that you are willing to reside in Mexico. The letter must be typed in or translated into Spanish, and should include:
        • Your request to have a retiring or rentista resident card.
        • Date of travel and port of entry.
        • Address in Mexico.
        • Proof of economic solvency through a letter from a bank institution (last three bank statements), stating that your retirement pension or earnings, is in the uninterrupted amount of $2,000.00 dollars or more a month. Add 25% more for each additional dependent family member.
        • Passport size pictures: 2 front and 1 right profile
        • Payment of consular fee:
        • Consular visa $36.00 Dollars applicable to some nationalities.
        • Applicant must be present in order to submit paperwork.

        • If you are planning on taking your household goods, you have 6 months to apply for a stamp. You need to present an itemized list (4 copies) of your belongings, typed in Spanish, in columns, at single spacing, with the description of each item. Electrical appliances must include name, brand, model, and serial number. For example:
        CANTIDAD ARTICULO MARCA MODELO NO. DE SERIE
        1 refrigerador Kenmore 234234234 A36548
        1 televisión RCA 989251883 X16896
        1 comedor de madera de 5 piezas
        3 cajas de utensilios de cocina
        4 cajas de ropa

        • Payment of consular stamp: $127.00 Dollars

        Applications are accepted Monday through Friday from 7:00 to 10:00 am.

        The payments are: cash, credit or debit card or money order. ”
        * * * * * * *

        I would note that you should take the documentation listed in our article above, to prove personal fiscal solvency for the type of Residency card that you want: where Permanent Residents need different proofs than Temporary Residents.
        steve
    • John Garvin says:

      November 29, 2012 at 5:47 am

      Miami, Albuquerque, Los Angeles definitely do not require background checks.

      Reply
      • Nicole says:

        February 4, 2013 at 5:07 pm

        Do you happen to know if San Diego does?
      • Nicole says:

        February 4, 2013 at 8:34 pm

        FYI, this email from the Mexican Consulate in Portland, Oregon was posted on another forum. (I only wish that other Consulate offices were so helpful!)

        • There are two kinds of residency visas, temporary residency and permanent residency. Here is the information on how to apply. You do not need an appointment to submit your application, you should just come in during our visa services hours Monday, Wednesday or Friday from 12pm to 1:30pm. (This information is also available in our website http://www.sre.gob.mx/portland, under the visas section).

        Best regards,
        Lilibeth Vinagre
        Visas Department
        •
        Visa for temporary residents without authorization for lucrative activities

        This type of visa is for you if:
        • You are traveling to Mexico for retirement, investments, professional activities, technical activities, artistic activities, scientific activities, and sport activities or as a minister of religion.
        • You will be in Mexico for more than 180 days but less than 4 years.
        • You don’t have a work authorization.
        Requirements:
        • All applicants must come in person to the Consulate’s office (1305 SW 12th Ave, Portland, OR), mailed applications will not be accepted.
        • Fill out the Application form, English or Español.
        • Valid passport and one photocopy of the pages containing personal information, bearer’s photograph and signature and expiration date/extensions.
        • Valid US visa for multiple entries and one photocopy (non US citizens only).
        • Valid I-94 in original and one photocopy (non US citizens only).
        • One recent passport size photo (size 1.5 x 1.3/4 inches), in color, white background, no glasses, no smiling.
        • Original financial records under the applicant’s name and one photocopy of each, such as: Last twelve months of bank statements (checking, savings or investments) in US Dollars with an average monthly balance of at least 95,225.00USD*, or last six months of employment or pension pay stubs with a monthly balance of at least $1905.00USD* after taxes (yearly social security statements are acceptable). You can also submit original deed documents (notarized by Mexican notary public) proving the ownership of a property in Mexico with value of at least $190,450.00USD*.
        • If a company/organization in Mexico is inviting the foreign national, the applicant can submit an original invitation letter** from them (the invitation must have a letterhead, address and signed in ink. Scanned or pdf versions won’t be accepted), accompanied by official documents that prove the applicant is qualified to carry out the activities stated in the letter. Ministers of religion should also submit original letter of “anuencia” (consent) of the Ministry of the Interior (Secretaría de Gobernación) from Mexico.
        • Payment of Consular fee of $36.00USD in cash, debit or credit card, no personal checks accepted.

        IMPORTANT NOTES:

        I. To apply, minors (under 18 years old) must be accompanied by both parents (or legal guardian) and submit original birth certificate and one photocopy or original legal documents of proof of guardianship and one photocopy. If only one of the parents is present at the time of application there must be an original notarized authorization from the absent parent with a copy of both sides of their valid official ID, or original custody documents and one copy of them.
        II. All documents issued outside of Mexico considered public records, such as birth, marriage, death certificates, court documents or school records/degrees must bear the seal of the apostille issued by the corresponding authority.
        *Amounts may change depending on the official Mexican minimum wage and the daily exchange rate
        **Invitation Letter:
        • Original Invitation Letter from the company/organization based in Mexico must be addressed to the Consulate of Mexico in Portland requesting the visa and specifying:
        o The company/organization’s main activities/services/purpose.
        o Applicant’s full name and nationality.
        o Exact purpose of the trip to Mexico (the purpose should be directly related to the company/organization’s activities/services/purpose).
        o Length of the trip to Mexico.
        o How applicant’s expenses will be covered (if the company/organization will cover expenses, must present proof of financial records for past six months).
        o Registration number of the company/organization, plus address, complete name and contact information of the company/organization and its representative.
        o Copy of ID of the person who signed the invitation letter.
        The visa process can take up to 10 working days after the application has been submitted.
        THE VISA SERVICES HOURS ARE: MONDAY, WEDNESDAY OR FRIDAY FROM 12:00PM TO 1:30PM.
        Filing an application does not guarantee the issuance of a visa. All cases must be reviewed by a consular official, who will determine the approval of the visa issuance.
        PLEASE BE AWARE THAT:
        Some cases are required to have an additional review and approval from the Mexican Immigration Authority; this process can take up to 10 additional working days. Unfortunately, the Consulate cannot do anything to expedite this procedure.

        Visa for permanent residents

        This type of visa is for you if:
        • You will be in Mexico indefinitely.
        • You don’t have a work authorization.
        Requirements:
        • All applicants must come in person to the Consulate’s office (1305 SW 12th Ave, Portland, OR), mailed applications will not be accepted.
        • Fill out the Application form, English or Español.
        • Valid passport and one photocopy of the pages containing personal information, bearer’s photograph and signature and expiration date/extensions.
        • Valid US visa for multiple entries and one photocopy (non US citizens only).
        • Valid I-94 in original and one photocopy (non US citizens only).
        • One recent passport size photo (size 1.5 x 1.3/4 inches), in color, white background, no glasses, no smiling.
        • Original financial records and one photocopy of each, such as: Last twelve months of your bank statements (checking, savings or investments) in US Dollars with an average monthly balance of at least 119,032.00USD*, or last six months of pension pay stubs with a monthly balance of at least $2381.00USD* after taxes (yearly social security statements are acceptable).
        • Payment of Consular fee of $36.00USD in cash, debit or credit card, no personal checks accepted.
        IMPORTANT NOTES:

        I. To apply, minors (under 18 years old) must be accompanied by both parents (or legal guardian) and submit original birth certificate and one photocopy or original legal documents of proof of guardianship and one photocopy. If only one of the parents is present at the time of application there must be an original notarized authorization from the absent parent with a copy of both sides of their valid official ID, or original custody documents and one copy of them.
        II. All documents issued outside of Mexico considered public records, such as birth, marriage, death certificates, court documents or school records/degrees must bear the seal of the apostille issued by the corresponding authority.
        *Amounts may change depending on the official Mexican minimum wage and the daily exchange rate
        The visa process can take up to 10 working days after the application has been submitted.
        THE VISA SERVICES HOURS ARE: MONDAY, WEDNESDAY OR FRIDAY FROM 12:00PM TO 1:30PM.
        Filing an application does not guarantee the issuance of a visa. All cases must be reviewed by a consular official, who will determine the approval of the visa issuance.
        PLEASE BE AWARE THAT:
        Some cases are required to have an additional review and approval from the Mexican Immigration Authority; this process can take up to 10 additional working days. Unfortunately, the Consulate cannot do anything to expedite this procedure.
58. William Glenn says:

    November 28, 2012 at 11:22 pm

    Blog with information on Mazatlan Immigration Forum: http://www.vidamaz.com/

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 29, 2012 at 4:47 pm

      Good update on how things are being proposed in Mazatlan. Most of it matches the national rules, with some local twists – quirky enough that it may not apply widely to other expats applying at offices other than Mazatlan.

      Big sections of key information that affect expats are missing from the powerpoint presentations. e.g. It is odd that they have left out any mention of other INM approved ~ really common ~ methods of qualifying for residency, like the Average Annual Balances, or investing or owning shares in a Mexican company, or owning a qualifying business, nor do they mention the options available for spouses and family of Mexicans (which fits a lot of folks who have married Mexicans).

      People using the Mazatlan Immigration Forum information should definitely check other sources to cover all the missing sections and missing areas.
      steve

      Reply
59. John Garvin says:

    November 29, 2012 at 5:52 am

    This is why I believe only one person in a couple needs to have the required income. The second person qualifies for temporary Resident by the words: “Proof of a any familiar bond with another Temporary or Permanent Resident or a marital (or equivalent) bond with a Mexican”. This may apply to Permanent Resident as well. Steve and others, any comment?

    Reply
60. John Garvin says:

    November 29, 2012 at 7:34 am

    Click to access Immigration%20Forum%20Q%26A.pdf

    Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      November 29, 2012 at 11:42 am

      Please note, the above is from a Q and A with INM and slideshow presented by the Governor’s Advisory Council and will feature representatives from Immigration, Aduana and Hacienda in an attempt to clarify a lot of the things we have all read about on various forums on the Internet.

      Reply
      • Linda Leonard says:

        November 29, 2012 at 12:57 pm

        The link does not appear to work.
    • John Garvin says:

      November 29, 2012 at 8:45 pm

      Q and A with INM and slideshow presented by the Governor’s Advisory Council featuring representatives from Immigration, Aduana and Hacienda in an attempt to clarify a lot of the things we have all read about on various forums on the Internet.

      QUESTIONS FOR IMMIGATION FORUM

      FACT CHECK / VERIFICACIÓN DE DATOS

      IS IT TRUE THAT: / ES VERDAD QUÉ:

      1. All current FM2 and FM3 permit holders get full credit for time they have
      completed on their current permit?

      SI

      2. If you want a Residente Permanente card, FM2 and FM3 years count towards
      the 4 years of Residente Temporal requirement?

      SI

      3. FM2 and FM3 holders must submit a cover letter describing that they want a
      “renovacion” of their current permit, changing to either Residente Temporal or
      Residente Permanente.

      SI

      4. Both the Residente Temporal and Residente Permanente have options for 1
      thru 4 years

      No.

      Only the Temporary Resident has this option.

      The Permanent Resident has no time limit

      5. FM2 holders with Famiy or spouse status are eligible to apply for Residente
      Permanente after completing 2 years on their FM2.

      SI

      6. The income requirements for proving fiscal independence are cut in half (1/2)
      for both home-owning Residente Permanente and Residente Temporal
      applicants who already have valid Inmigrante Rentista or No Inmigrante
      Rentista visas

      NO

      7. NEW applicants for Residente Permanente or Temporal (who have no current
      FM2 or FM3) will be required to show proof of sufficient income.

      SI

      8. For Residente Temporal applications for retirees and pensioners

      – NEW applications can only be made at a Mexican consulate in your home country

      Si

      9. NEW applicants for a Residente Temporal will have to provide the following:
      Original and copy of proof of investments or bank
      accounts for the previous 12 months – with an ANNUAL Monthly balance
      equivalent to approx.. $96,000 USD (depending on exchange rate)

      SI

      AND / OR

      Original and copies of documents showing that has employment or pension

      – With non – encumbered monthly income for the last six months of:

      – equivalent to approx.

      $1950 USD pcm (subject to Exchange rate)

      SI

      10. Residente Permanente applications can be made at an INM office in México.

      Yes if you have an FM3 or FM2 for 4 Years

      11. Residente Permanente applicants who qualify for the previous question No. 10 MUST SUBMIT documents proving one of the following:

      AND / OR

      Original and copy of proof of investments or bank accounts with average Monthly
      equivalent to approx. $120,000 USD (depending on exchange rate)

      NO

      AND / OR

      Original and copies of documents showing that monthly income has for the
      previous six months been equivalent to approx. $2500 USD pcm (depending on
      current exchange rate)

      NO

      Questions from the International Community

      1. What is the Actual Real Difference between Residente Temporal and
      Residente Permanente?

      Residente temporal is for a maximum period of 4 years and pay each year for up
      to four years

      The permanent residency allows you to live in Mexico indefinitely with a one
      time fee

      2. Is it true that permit holders with 4 prorrogas on their existing permit must
      allow it to expire and reapply?

      No. Those people who have completed 4 annual extensions have to leave Mexico or change to a permanent resident
      .
      3. How long of a process is this?

      20 Days

      4. Is there any way to start the process early rather than waiting for it to expire?

      NO.

      5. Is travel outside of Mexico allowed while this process is taking place?

      SI

      6. What are the costs for a permit to leave on this basis

      $320.00 PESOS

      7. Will the minimum monthly income requirement be less if you own a home in Mexico as it was in the past?

      NO.

      8. What are the advantages and also disadvantages of someone who is a
      Residente Temporal (formally FM 3 or FM 2) obtaining Residente
      Permanente?

      The Permanent resident does not have to renew whereas the residente temporal can only stay for a maximum of 4 years without becoming a permanent resident

      9. Beyond a copy of a marriage license for married couples, what sort of
      documentation is needed to verify a familiar bond (or equivalent) with
      another Temporary or Permanent Resident?

      Español.- Aparte de una copia del certificado de matrimonio ¿qué tipo de
      documentos necesitas como prueba de lazo familiar con otra persona que tiene
      residencia (permanente o temporal)?

      Only with a marriage certificate verified with the relevant Mexican authority
      AND – For parents a birth Mexican authority

      10. Are the rules any different for someone that is married to a Mexican National?

      NO.

      11. If one applies for an Inmigrante Permanente – what is the maximum time one is allowed to remain in that status before being required to change to Inmigrado status?

      The Permanent Resident is equivalent to inmigrado status.
      .
      12. Are the minimum monthly income requirements the same for
      all of Mexico or does it vary by region as it did in the past?

      It’s the same in all of Mexico

      13. Are the new rules the same for Foreign Business Owners?

      SI

      14. Will an Inmigrado be able to own real estate without the need of
      a fideicomiso?

      No you still require a fidei comiso

      15. If I have been living in Mexico for more than 4 years on a Temporary
      Resident Visa – must I convert it to a Permanent Resident Visa?

      or can I continue indefinitely as a Temporary Resident should I wish to do so?

      YOU MUST CHANGE TO A RESIDENTE PERMANENTE

      16. If I pay for a 4 year Temporary Visa with a working visa and cease to work during that period – how does that change my status?

      If you are no longer working you have to inform immigration and you will not automatically qualify for a residente permanente

      17. If that WERE TO HAPPEN – Do I need to go through the entire process of application again?

      Yes at your home country’s Mexican Embassy
      .
      18. Will the money I have paid be applied to the change in status?

      NO

      19. If one is already inmigrado and a permanent resident do you have to obtain another card?

      No only if you are under 18 years old

      20. Would an individual with a documented retirement income of $1500 USD
      Canadian, who owns a notarized home valued at $100,000 US/Canadian, has a
      college degree, and owns a US-plated new automobile be allowed to obtain
      “permanent” status?

      YES – Once you have completed 4 years you can then apply for permanent residency

      21. Are people that are working here going to have restrictions on time spent out of
      Mexico if they want to apply for permanent residency?

      NO.

      22. What happens to people that cannot meet the minimum income requirements?

      You will have to leave Mexico but you can come back once you have successfully re applied and met the new requirements

      23 . What type of visa is available to a person who wants to move to Mazatlan
      and open a business? And, what are the requirements to obtain this type of
      visa?

      You have to consult with the Mexican consulate in your own country and it will depend on the application

      24. What is the process in changing our lucrativa FM3 from one company to
      another?

      You have to notify us of your change of business location

      25. If I only have a tourist visa will I be able to leave the country at 180 days and
      return the following day with a new 180 day tourist visa?

      SI

      26. Am I still able to rent a private home to live in even if I only have a 180 day
      tourist visa?

      SI

      27. I help out in a not for profit organization – do I need a specific visa to do that

      ONLY if you are applying originally from outside of mexico

      NOT if you are already in Mexico with a residente temporal or residente permanente

      28. Would any income generated by a foreigner here who has a business be
      considered a valid part of their income?

      SI

      29. With the current FM2 there are travel restrictions. I am now told that you
      can’t be out of the country for more than 15 months in 5 years – is that true?

      WHEN YOU CONFORM WITH THE CORRECT IMMIGRATION FORMS – THERE ARE NO TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS

      30. Are the income requirements based upon combined incomes when dealing
      with a husband & wife?

      NO they are on an individual basis
      .
      31. Do any of the changes affect someone currently working in Mexico?

      NO

      32. My husband and I stay in Mazatlan less than 180 days a year and currently
      each have a FM3. We own a condo. What visa is best for us?

      180 day tourist visa

      33. We drove our Motorhome from Canada, a distance over 5000 kms, to our
      home in Mexico.

      Our plan was to apply for either the FM2 or FM3 after we
      arrived.

      Can Immigration forgive those that arrived here during this change and give
      them a short period of time to get their FM2/FM3?

      NO.

      Reply

61. Pingback: Mexican Immigration Questions Answered by San Miguel Allende INM Office | Surviving Yucatan

62. John Garvin says:

    November 29, 2012 at 11:40 am

    Asked this morning… if now have a “lucrative” visa what happens at time of renewal? At your next renewal you will have to move to Permanent Resident. if you do not have 4 years on a visa you will have to prove income.

    Reply
    • wrytr says:

      February 1, 2014 at 5:17 pm

      John, I have a Residente Temporal visa with a “3” on the back, so on the last day I will go to INM (with my application already filled out and the fee already paid at the bank, if possible) and apply for Residente Permanente.
      • At that point, must I do anything at the Hacienda office in Celaya, where I got my lucrative status and RFC originally?
      • Will INM let Hacienda know that I have changed from Residente Temporal to Residente Permanente? Is that my responsibility?
      • If I don’t change jobs, am I okay NOT going to Hacienda?
      • What if I need to change my address–should I first get the Residente Permanente visa in my hands and THEN go to Hacienda? Or will INM notify them of my new address, the one that will be associated with my Permanente visa?
      • Do you have a link for the Residente Permanente application form online?

      Thank you!! Always such a great source of info!

      Anne

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        February 2, 2014 at 9:17 am

        Hi Anne,
        Since John has not answered yet, I will make a stab at replying to your questions.
        ~ We are not experts on SAT rules, but we are not aware of any SAT requirements for foreigners to notify SAT of INM visa changes, as long as SEGOB (INM) continues to award you permission (a visa) that includes the right to work.

        ~ See the prior answer.

        ~ Correct – no need to go to SAT/Hacienda.

        ~ I believe they both have the same 90 day grace period requirement for notification. To the best of my knowledge, INM does not notify SAT of your address change – but we have NO definitive information to back this up. I would notify each of SAT and INM as independent actions.

        ~ You use the INM webpage for starting your application online. See our instructions on this above: Instructions for the INM Webpage for Visiting Mexico or Moving to Mexico https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#INM%20Webpage%20for%20Visiting%20Mexico%20or%20Moving%20to%20Mexico ~ ~ If our INM link stops working (due to INM changes the webpage address), go to their homepage and look for a page called: “Solicitud_de_Estancia” .

        After completing the webpage information, then take your pieza number to your INM office with a letter that describes what you want to do. See “Example Letter #2: For applying for CHANGING from a Residente Temporal to Residente Permanente” https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Example%20Letter%20for%20applying%20for%20CHANGING%20from%20Residente%20Temporal%20to%20Residente%20Permanente if you’d like a template.

        Best of luck for a smooooth process,
        steve
63. yucalandia says:

    November 29, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    Moved from a smaller group of Comments to solicit some answers:

    Lopo wrote:
    Submitted on 2012/11/29 at 4:29 pm

    Are others who are in their home country having any luck (other than the Danes who seem to have a very responsive consulate) making an appt. to apply for their visa so that they can return to Mexico? Although the Orlando consulate has “some” information on their site, I have tried all month to make an appointment but my emails and voice mail messages are not being returned.
    And as I understand it, I cannot go to the Miami or any other consulate to apply. Anyone have word on how long it’s taking for the consulates to be ready for this new responsibility?

    Reply
64. Sue says:

    November 29, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    My husband and I have just completed the Residencia Temporal process at the Mexican Consulate in Chicago. We arrived in Chicago at 11:30 a.m. and picked up our Mexico Visa at 2:00 p.m. This how the process worked:
    I called a couple days in advance and the Visa specialist (a very friendly & knowledgeable woman named Ivette) told me to bring the following to the office:
    Passport
    1 passport photo (no glasses)
    6 months proof of income

    Cost would be $165 USD each. I was also told that we didn’t need an appointment,

    In addition we took copies of our Mexican corporation papers, and copies of our CFE, water and Telmex bills showing our address and names on the bills.

    When we arrived, we were asked to complete a very simple 1-page information form. While we were completing our forms, Ivette gathered all the information and documents that we had brought, reviewed our documents, and asked a few questions, When we had completed our forms, and satisfactorily answered all her questions, she took digital photos and fingerprints (both index fingers) from each of us. That completed the process.

    Payment was the next step of the process. We were informed that there had been a change in policy between the time I called and our arrival. The fee we were required to pay was now only $36 each, the remainder to be collected at Immigration in Mexico. We took payment coupons to the cashier in a different part of the Consulate, paid our $36 each and returned with our receipts.

    Because we were not from the Chicago area, we were told to return in about 2 hours to pick up our new Visas. Arriving back at the Consulate, all our documentation and our US passports were returned to us with a new Mexico Visa affixed to one of the passport pages. The Visa shows the following:
    Place of Issue: Chicago
    Date of Issue: 29 November 2012
    Validity: 29 May 2013 (180 days)
    No. of Entries: Una
    Visa No.: *******165
    Permanent No.: BLANK
    Type/Class Category: Residencia Temporal
    Obtener en iNAMl forma migratoria /Refer to Immigration Office
    My Name, Passport #, Birthdate, Home country
    VISA GRAVADA $36.00
    Ordinario

    The Mexico Visa also contains a large and small version of the photo that was taken during the process. The passport photo we brought was attached to the information form that we completed.

    Ivette instructed us to go to an Immigration Office within 30 days of our entry into Mexico. At that time, we will be able to pay for our “permanent card”. We can pay for 1 to 4 years at one time, with 4 years obviously being the best choice for us, since it will allow us remain for 4 years and to also temporarily import a vehicle for 4 years without the need for annual renewals. The Mexico Visa attached to our passports is good for 180 days, so we can enter Mexico once, on any date before 29 May 2013 (in our case) and when we enter we have 30 days to go to Immigration to get our “permanent card” as Residencia Temporal.

    I hope this is helpful to all of you . . .it was amazingly quick, the service was excellent, we brought what we were told and left with our new Visas, all in less than 3 hours.

    Good Luck to those that will be completing this process . . .may your experiences be as positive as ours.

    Reply
    • Jim Llamas says:

      December 29, 2012 at 6:45 pm

      Thank you so much for your detailed post on the Resident Temporary process in Chicago. I have a friend who is planing to apply in Colorado and your post will give him and his wife the information and procedure to follow. Your story has been every so helpful. Thanks.
      again

      Reply
65. 1947jbbarker says:

    November 30, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Thank you for the very helpful information. There are many web sites with old, out dated or bad information. I have a two part question.
    1.)
    From your site: Re Spouses and Dependents Effects on the Income/Deposit Requirements: (Residente Temporal)
    A good Mexican lawyer has noted in our comments on Surviving Yucatan that dependents or multiple applicants in the same family are factored in by adding: “another 100 SMG ($62.3 x 100 = $6,230 pesos or $500 USD) for (Residente Temporal) based on a bond with another (primary applicant Resident Temporal).“
    This formula comes from the Lineamientos, Tramite 5: Visa de Residencia Temporal: Requisito IV: Section d, Item 1, iii.
    If my wife and I apply together, we would need proof of income 1,920.00 for me with an additional 500.00 for a total of 2,420.00. Her Social Security and mine together is roughly 3,00.00. Can we apply with this?
    2.)
    I have a brother in Mexico with a FM-2. Can I apply under the condition of “unidad familiar”?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 30, 2012 at 11:21 am

      JB,
      Good questions.

      The requisitos for dependents of current FM2 and FM3 holders are not clear. Some INM offices are accepting the principle you quoted, others, like Mazatlan are saying that each individual applicant must have their own assets… Well, this just flat does not work for children – because kid’s don’t generally have their own bank accounts with $100K, so we expect that this issue will be resolved over time. Check with your local INM office, or Mexican Consulate, and explain your exact situation.

      You should qualify – especially if you already have FM2s or FM3s. Further, if you have a home in Mexico, then it may allow them to lower your requisitos by 1/2. You may also qualify based on significant average annual balances in retirement/bank/savings accounts. Bring all your documents, and based on other similar people’s experiences: They may decide on an overall “points” basis, that you qualify, even though NO SINGLE item qualifies you.

      Your brother in Mexico with an FM2 does not help your case.
      All the best,
      steve

      Reply
66. Linda Leonard says:

    November 30, 2012 at 11:28 am

    What documents should we take with us to prove condo ownership? The fidei comiso is HUGE- they can’t possibly want the whole thing….can they?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      November 30, 2012 at 1:20 pm

      Talk with your Notario and your local INM office: The specific item is a public notice from your Notario, officially describing the property and price you paid. The original deed showing the price also generally works. The catastral (property tax Predial notice) is often accepted. Some Notaries are certifying formal real estate appraisals that show higher values than your original deed – but that is up to your Notario.
      All the best,
      steve

      Reply
      • Linda Leonard says:

        December 1, 2012 at 8:08 am

        I will take your advice and check, AGAIN, with INM. I just realized that our catastral does not have our names on it- it shows Scotiabank as the owners…I guess since they have our fidei comiso. Is that normal?
      • yucalandia says:

        December 1, 2012 at 8:15 am

        yes.
67. Anita Farrar says:

    December 1, 2012 at 10:08 am

    Hi Steve, Thanks for your quick reply. The reason I was wanting a FM3 or equivalent is because I sit on the board of directors of the condominium complex that I own a condo in. That is one of their requirements. But as I do not have time to go to Vancouver to the Mex. consulate this year, I will go down with a tourist visa , as before, and go to Van. next year to apply for it. Maybe by then, they will have changed the rules again. I just heard that the rather stringent requirements for travelling with a minor have been withdrawn!

    Reply
68. Barry says:

    December 1, 2012 at 10:39 am

    I applied for an FM3 in Vancouver 4 years ago and one requirement at that time was to get a criminal record check. You might want to check to see if that is still a requirement for the new Visa.
    Barry

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 1, 2012 at 1:40 pm

      Barry,
      Yes, some Mexican Consulates are requiring this, others… NOT. e.g. The Mexican Embassy/Maryland Police combination are requiring FBI background checks (which can take up to a year), while Chicago… nada. Please check with your Consulate and report back to us just what they are currently requiring.
      steve

      Reply
69. Anita Farrar says:

    December 1, 2012 at 10:58 am

    No, apparently not anymore. Just the bank statements with loads of money in them, fotos, etc. How long did it take to get it done? Did you have to have a personal interview with the consulate?

    Reply
70. 1947jbbarker says:

    December 1, 2012 at 11:12 am

    I am posting this question thinking that many other may find themselves in this situation. I hope you are not.

    My Social Security is $1,448.00. There will be 1.7% increase as of January 1, 2013. ($1,463.50)
    I have the document from Social Security Administration to prove this.
    I have no other pension or retirement.
    I do have rental real estate rental property. I have the deed and title to the property. It is paid for.
    I have a separate bank account for that property with Bank of America.
    My personal account is with another bank.
    The rental payment is $700.00 per month. We have a rental contract which I can have notarized if necessary.
    The taxes on the property are $1,651.45 or $139.62 per month. This makes my actual income $560.38
    $1,463.50 SSA and $560.38 rental income is $2,023.88.
    The information person at the consulate seems somewhat confused. He questioned the taxes on the property but is adamant about “pension retirement documentation”.
    My 6 months of bank statements starts today 12/01/2012
    I don’t want to go there June1 and get turned away.
    Based on this data, Do you think I can my Residente Temporal ?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 1, 2012 at 1:46 pm

      JB,
      Do you already have an FM2 or FM3? If so, Yes, you qualify as long as you have no problems with your current INM permit.

      Is your property in Mexico? Then your local INM office may be giving a 1/2 off the income requisitos.
      Is your Mexican property worth more than $195,000 USD? If so, Yes.
      Can you show 12 months of account statements with an aggregate of over $95,000 USD in average monthly balances? Then Yes.
      Do you deposit the rental income into a Mexican account to prove regular income?

      If you meet any of these requirements, then you qualify. There are also people who did not meet any single qualification, but the Consulate and the INM offices both approved them based on aggregate partial qualifications in several areas. Check with your Consulate before hand.
      steve

      Reply
      • jbbarker1947 says:

        December 1, 2012 at 2:21 pm

        I do not have an FM2 or FM3.
        The poroperty is in Texas
        I do not have $95,000 USD in average monthly balances.
        I have stored all of my funiture and rented out my house. With plans to move to Mexico in March which is now looking like June, or never.
      • yucalandia says:

        December 1, 2012 at 5:55 pm

        JB,
        Hopefully, the Consulate will give you enough partial credits/points for partially qualifying on multiple requisitos, to give you enough total “points” to approve your application. They are doing this for others on a case-by-case basis, so you will have to check with them on your particular situation. Write back to tell us how it works out.
        Good Luck.
        steve
71. John Garvin says:

    December 1, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Steve please comment on this…. If one person meets the requirements to become a Temporary or Permanent Resident this clause should allow their spouse / partner to gain the same status: “Proof of a any familiar bond with another Temporary or Permanent Resident or a marital (or equivalent) bond with a Mexican”.
    Where I am coming from is say one proves the $1900 or $2400 but the couple does not have double that to include spouse / partner. Should they not be given same status based on the clause above?
    To me the double income or say triple income some or most INM offices are seeking is ridiculous and I do not believe the intent was for a child to prove a $1900 or $2400 income in a month. Now imagine if one had say children. that is 5 x the income requirements.
    So far only the hotline is saying same income for a couple as for one and no multiple required.

    Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      December 2, 2012 at 7:52 am

      Steve here in SMA they are insisting on each family meIber showing the full income requirement. In Chapala, Lic Juan Carlos Galvan the ehad of Immigration, in an interview with the Guadalajara Reporter stated: “the new law allows anyone whose residency permits are in order to request papers for his or her spouse or common law mate, children and parents without each one of the applicants needing to meet individual income requirements. Foreigners who are spouses or parents of Mexican nationals also enjoy certain privileges, including ability to initiate application for temporary or permanent residency condition inside Mexico’s borders”.

      This is what the Hotline states.

      If true why does ones spouse / partner / child need to prove additional income? How would a child have the required income?

      This is very important to a large number of expats. Otherwise, a couple needs to prove $3800 per month and a couple with two children need to prove $7600 per month of income for Temporary Resident. Similarly a couple needs $4800 and a family with two children $9600 for Permanent Resident. And, all these amounts go up 4-5% when the new minimum wages are implemented.

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        December 2, 2012 at 8:31 am

        Morning John,
        Your insights seem spot-on, which is why we are asking readers to write in with comments about how their local INM offices and local Consulates are handling the requisitos for fiscal solvency (financial independence) for dependents.

        For any readers who are not following this aspect of the discussions:
        ~ Do dependents have to show their own assets or own bank accounts – with them as titulars on the account(s)?
        ~ Do dependents have to show equal $$ amounts as the main Residente Temporal or Permanente permit holders?
        ~ Does you local office accept dependents reporting some smaller monthly $$ amounts, equivalent to the ~$500 USD per dependent mentioned in one of the refugee/asylum articles?
        steve
72. Barry says:

    December 1, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    Anita – Back then applying first time for an FM3 in Vancouver it had to be done personally and we had lots of time so it took 3 weeks. You might get it quicker but I would suggest you call them first

    Reply
73. Slash says:

    December 2, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Interesting comments here
    However i have a queston!
    Has anyone not thought of aquiring a passport or Visa in another fashion ?
    Thats what we did

    Reply
74. Anita Farrar says:

    December 2, 2012 at 6:37 pm

    well that was a provocative statement! How did you do that?

    Reply
75. jbbarker1947 says:

    December 2, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    I too would like to know more about “another fashion.”

    Reply
76. John Garvin says:

    December 3, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    In San Miguel total processing time is a minimum of 6 weeks. Approvals are done locally but after finger printing everything documents are sent electronically to Mexico City where a contracted firm prepares your visa.

    Reply
77. John Garvin says:

    December 3, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Wow finally … huge news…. After a long meeting with the SMA Immigration Delegado a lot was learned.

    Visas are processed and approved locally. Following the finger printing stage in 2 plus weeks, your file is sent electronically to Mexico City where an outside firm has been contracted to process your final visa.

    For 3 weeks I have been pursuing the “family” connection to obtain a visa. In other words, not having to prove prove income. It did not make sense that a family consisting of a husband and wife with say 2 children had to prove 4 x the income. And, it turns out I was correct.

    If the application is made at a consulate, only one person has to prove income. The other family members enter Mexico on a FMM. The one applicant upon arriving in Mexico has to finalize their Temporary or Permanent Resident visa within 30 days by going to their local Immigration office. Once that visa is issued, the remainder of the family applies for the same level of visa ie Temporary or Permanent Resident under the “FAMILY” classification. That application can be done locally.

    If you are already in Mexico and have a Inmigrante (FM-2) or Non-Immigrante (FM-3 visa) and require a simple renewal no income proof is required to become a Temporary Resident.

    If you are already in Mexico and want to become a Permanent Resident you can do so by waiting 4 years as a Temporary Resident including time on past visas, or at any time by meeting the financial requirements. If only one has sufficient income / investments etc.That person applies for Permanent Resident. Immediately upon it being issued the other family members … spouse, children, partner can apply for Permanent Resident under the “Family” classification. This is done locally. I repeat, no proof of income required.You must make sure no person will have an expired visa in the process so timing is important.

    For some this is a huge relief.

    Reply
78. Holly says:

    December 3, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    you are providing a huge service and thank you. I have many years of fm3 and last year changed it to fm3 Lucrativa. I was thinking to go Resident Temporal to keep my foreign plates, but looks like I cannot have more than 4 years then I will have to go Permanente. I also don’t want to bump up against an income requirement down the road. I understood your comment about time out of country for citizenship falling under Mexican version of State Dept., but would you know if the allowed time out of Mex is going to be the same 18 months out of 60?
    thanks!

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 3, 2012 at 3:35 pm

      Hi Holly,
      SRE does not seem to have a published standard for how much time is permitted outside of Mexico for the applicants for Naturalized Citizenship. I would hope that an experienced attorney with specialization in this area would know how your local SRE office handles this. The old 18 months out of 60 was an INM standard, not SRE.
      steve

      Reply
79. John Garvin says:

    December 5, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Aduana and Permanent Residency: After several calls to Aduana regarding Permanent Resident talked with Juan Manuel de la Vega. His phone numbers are: 442-227-0013 and 442-227-0100 and extension 62343 for the second number regulations. Aduana is now writing laws to tie in with the new Immigration laws. Aduana, SAT (Hacienda) and Immigration are tying in their computer data bases but will take time. For now, if you have a foreign plated car and a Permanent Resident visa do not worry. In the future if need be, Aduana will send letters to those they want to remove their foreign plated cars from Mexico. Those details have not been finalized. The time frame to remove will not be limited to a few days but a longer period yet to be finalized.

    Reply
80. John Garvin says:

    December 5, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Based on a meeting this morning, with the Delegado at Immigration if you have a
    3 on the back of your Non-immigrante (FM-3) or Immigrante (FM-2) card you must
    become a Permanent resident when that card expires or leave the country and
    start over. The “3” means 3 renewals totaling 4 years.

    If you have a “4” on the back of your card you are to change now to Permanent
    Resident. If not there may be a fine or you may have to leave the country
    because you will have exceeded the 4 years as a Temporary Resident

    No financial information is needed.

    Note, if you are renewing now with a “1” on the back of your card, you renew and
    pay for 2 more years. If you have a “2” on the back of your card, meaning 2
    renewals, you pay for one more years as a Temporary Resident.

    Any time you may move directly yo Permanent Resident without waiting 4 years by
    submitting financials including bank statements and supporting documents. In
    doing so every page must be translated by a CERTIFIED translator.

    Reply
81. Linda Leonard says:

    December 5, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Excellent info. Now…what to do in our case in Zihua: we have the number 4 on our FM3’s and have been told we will be permanent residents, but we must provide 12 months of bank statements at our renewal time (beginning of Jan.). How do we convince them that we don’t need to provide financial information?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 5, 2012 at 7:56 pm

      Linda,
      The INM reserves the right to require proof of financial solvency from any applicant. Zihua´s INM personnel are fully within the rules and the law in asking for proof of solvency.
      steve

      Reply
      • Linda Leonard says:

        December 6, 2012 at 7:59 am

        Thank you for that clarification. We will be happy to comply. Will report how it goes in January!
82. James K. says:

    December 5, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    I wish I would have found this site months ago! Awesome information and huge thanks to all who have contributed.

    We headed to the San Francisco consulate today, only to realize half way there that they closed at noon for visa applications (8am to noon). We’ll head back tomorrow. In the meantime, I’m going to share our situation/ask a few questions and see if there is any insight on us or if we need to gather up anything else before we head in.

    – We will be applying for Resident Temporal and leaving for Puerto Vallarta on January 3rd, 2013. We have never resided in Mexico before. This will be our first application. I’m James and I’m 36 and Ryan is 35.

    – We are a couple (gay) who have lived together for 3 years. Joint checking for 2.5 years, own a car together, have bought and sold a house etc. Are we “familiar” enough?

    – We don’t have the $96,000 in cash or traditional investment assets. However, I sold a company and have payments being made that, when combined with our assets, exceed that amount for one of us. But, again, that’s not cash or an investment that can be easily liquidated. I’m taking copies of the papers from the sale of the business (all done very formally).

    – I believe we qualify under “Using Method of Monthly Deposits of Income or Pension Receipts” –

    (1) I sold my company in June and receive a monthly payment of $4300/month for the remaining balance on the business (this started in July – so 5 months worth with 19 months remaining). The initial down payment of $95,000 shows on June bank statements, so that should be month 1 plus 5 payments….6 months. (and OUCH on the commissions and taxes I had to pay! Yowza…tax on the full amount up front…but I digress…)

    (2) Ryan, is an actor and makes $4760 gross a month ($3301 net). Obviously, the show he has been in for 12 years is not moving with us. However, he has printed a year’s worth of pay stubs to show them. But, knowing that income isn’t coming with us…to me this doesn’t help us??? He will be performing in Puerto Vallarta, but we don’t have finalized contracts or what his income will be, so we can’t show anything there.

    (3) I now work for the company (online company) I sold and will continue to do so part-time when we get to Puerto Vallarta, but I have only been “back” for 3 months, showing a gross income $2400 a month ($2060 net). I don’t have 6 consecutive months of pay stubs to show (I’m going to take my stubs for all of 2012 since I paid myself at the beginning of the year when i owned the company). I have a letter from the new owner stating that I will be employed at this rate.

    – I have copies of 6 months worth of bank statements that have carried end of month balances in that exceed $3,900 every month (current balance is $18,000 – $26,000 as of January 1st).

    – I have a spreadsheet of our budget and how everything is paid for – with money going in the bank – and that we won’t be a burden to Mexico.

    Based on the income from the payments for the company and bank statement balances of at least 3800 at the end of each month, I believe we qualify…and then also on the salary I will receive from working…(even though none of the income is in Ryan’s name…the bank accounts are, so he should be fine??)

    Yes, I’m anxious and nervous. Is it showing? Should I be as nervous as I am right now? haha 🙂 Any thoughts?

    James
    (PS: I will be absolutely sure to report about our experience in San Francisco tomorrow!)

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 5, 2012 at 7:57 pm

      Sounds like you are doing just fine.
      Happy Trails,
      steve

      Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      December 5, 2012 at 8:14 pm

      Do not mention either of you working in Mexico or doing anything in Mexico that generates income unless applying for Permanent Resident which I would recommend. temps I believe can not work.

      Reply
    • James K. says:

      December 6, 2012 at 2:36 pm

      The system is down in San Francisco (but not in San Jose or Sacramento). We met with the Consulate and his only concern was the joint checking account – he had never had to process one like that before. He doesn’t know how they’ll view that (I didn’t understand why that would be an issue, but will hope the computer decides it’s ok). The “income” from the sale of the business is in my name, but covers the amount we need for both of us…again, the issue of not being legally married. He seemed to think we could head that off with a letter of explanation. Feels like trying to get a mortgage!!!

      If Ryan can’t get a the temporary resident visa and has to go on a tourist 6 month, how long does he have to leave the country before he can come back in on another 6 months? Anyone know? I can’t find a consistent answer online – all I see is “it depends on the agent at the border.”

      Reply
      • John Garvin says:

        December 6, 2012 at 3:06 pm

        To get another tourist visa you have to “leave” for 1 minute.Turn in old one and ask for a new one or come back in a minute.
83. Barry says:

    December 6, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Just wanted to point out one significant difference in interpretation of the rules by INM Puerto Vallarta. Although I have the number 3 on the rear of my expiring FM3 which indicates 3 prior concurrent renewals with no fines, they are interpreting that as my previous visa had a term of 1 year they insisted that I had to apply for a 3 year renewal of Residente temporal. They stated as the previous visa term was for 1 year that only qualified me for 1 year. I took their recommendation of a 3 year renewal as with qualification at the end of that term for Residente Permenante.
    It is now 9 working days and I am awaiting visa – I will post details if anything changes when I receive my visa.

    Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      December 6, 2012 at 3:09 pm

      My wife had a client today in SMA with a total of 7 years over 2 FM-3’s. Her client was pre-approved by the Subdirector for Permanent Resident.

      I do not know anyone who has received a visa in their hands since Nov 9, 2012. I am told mine will come in New year and I applied Nov. 12.

      Reply
      • Corinne Allen says:

        January 5, 2013 at 4:42 pm

        in Cozumel…filed the first week of the new regulations (Nov 11) and as of today Jan 3 I’m still waiting to hear…I was on my second FM3 with two years. Was told I could apply for permanent status.
84. James K. says:

    December 6, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    “To get another tourist visa you have to “leave” for 1 minute.Turn in old one and ask for a new one or come back in a minute.”

    Seriously, why am I even bothering with a temporary! Oy.

    Reply
    • 1947jbbarker says:

      December 6, 2012 at 4:58 pm

      Correct me if I am wrong. We would like our Residente Temporal to take our vehicle loaded with our essential possessions. We would also be eligible for the health insurance. There are there are some perks for being 65. Half price bus fares for one.
      On another note: John Garvin and Steven Fry, Yucalandia are doing a superb job Can’t thank you enough . My wife applies tomorrow in San Antonio, Texas. We will post results.

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        December 7, 2012 at 7:31 am

        Good Updates! (and Yes, your insights seem good… though the health insurance does have limits and restrictions: does not cover all illnesses, has significant restrictions on pre-existing conditions, etc* )

        *One diligent and highly precise reader, Pennsy-Al has thoroughly researched the IMSS options from a retired foreigner’s perspective, and he has strong reservations about relying on this insurance/medical coverage: He can describe the details far better than I… which may be good fodder for a new Yucalandia article? Interested?
        steve
    • yucalandia says:

      December 7, 2012 at 7:30 am

      Good Question.
      Do you want to have a US or Canadian plated car while in Mexico? without paying the $250 -$400 permit deposits?

      You can leave and enter Mexico without the hassles of turning in permits – trying to collect refunds on deposits – and then doing the dance again with every trip.

      Using past years on an FM2 or FM3, or combination of them, to pay a one time fee for Permanent Residency and have no future fees at the border or at INM … appeals to some Canadians and Americans.

      Do you own property in the coastal or free zones of Mexico? Do you enjoy paying $400 – $600 a year in perpetual Fideicomiso fees?

      Do you look forward to paying 28% gains taxes on any property you sell?

      Watching how our pennies are spent, does not necessarily take care of the C-notes…

      These are just a few of the reasons some factor into their calculus.
      steve

      Reply
85. John Garvin says:

    December 7, 2012 at 7:57 am

    Important updates on past FM-3 time counting towards Permanent Resident…….. my wife’s client in San Miguel has the word “PERMANENCIA” on the Immigration computer system when checking her client’s history. This word showed up when client reached 5 years and started over on a FM-3. Thanks to the word “PERMANENCIA” they counted total time on current and past FM-3’s after they met with Mireya the Subdirector. She was immediately pre-approved for Permanent Resident and no financials required. Thank goodness and the client’s income is $1100 / month.

    With another facilitator her client was unable to count past time on previous FM-3’s as she had the word “REGULARIZATION” when she was at the end of her five years on a FM-3 and started over.

    Steve may have more clarification.

    Reply
    • 1947jbbarker says:

      December 7, 2012 at 5:05 pm

      Our experience with the Mexican Consulate today:
      We have no previous FM3 or FM2 permits. We were down town by 11:00. We had the passport pictures produced and two copies of her passport pages. We presented the application form, photos and passport copies and six months bank statements to the application desk. The person in charge of that type of applications soon called our number. She immediately went into $95,000.00 bank balance and a letter from the bank. We asked to use the monthly deposit option. She then wanted twelve months but then had to refer to her documentation for clarification. My wife told her it was our understanding that the six months of statements, over $1,900.00 would be accepted. We had to show her the direct deposits. We showed her the bank statements with each of the direct deposit and the months clearly marked. She said she would check if this could be accepted. After some waiting my wife was called to the desk. They took her picture and only finger printed her index fingers. This was clearly the first temporary residency application this office has done. All they wanted was the application, her passport, the bank statements and $36.00USD. My wife has a lamented MEXICO visa permanently affixed to a page in her US passport. It is the one with the red and black header at the top. Everything was completed by 2:00. It was handled in a very courteous and professional way. She was told she 30 days to go to Queretaro and present this to immigration.

      Reply
      • 1947jbbarker says:

        December 7, 2012 at 5:09 pm

        When we return from Queretaro, we will work on getting mine. Hallelujah! We can now exhale.
86. Anita Farrar says:

    December 7, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    Where did you do this? City, country?

    Reply
    • 1947jbbarker says:

      December 7, 2012 at 5:23 pm

      My apology for not stating this before. San Antonio, Texas USA.

      Reply
87. Dirk VanErp says:

    December 8, 2012 at 9:53 am

    We have went through the process to acquire an FM2 Visa (old name). The process IS very straight forward, and not complex. You must contact THE CLOSEST Mexican Consulate, THAT SERVES your area/state of residence. I would strongly advise you have a COLOR printer and SCANNER! They will email you a simple one page, one sided application. VERY basic questions, you type fill out the app, print it, scan it and email it back UNSIGNED. Prior you MUST have a passport photo and have it attached to the application. When it IS returned you must also include COLOR scans of ALL PASSPORTS of the applicants.
    Now the problem YOU will have. There is no more “SCAMMING” Mexico on the income requirements you all did in the past. YOU MUST SHOW $2,400. USD INCOME PER MONTH, PER PERSON, PERIOD !!! Yes you are reading this correct, NO BS! In other words if a family of three wishes to move to Mexico, say a husband, wife AND 3 month old baby, ALL and I MEAN ALL, MUST SHOW $2,400 USD per month income. Let me do the math, $7,200. On top of this, all 3 must show their OWN income/investments, IN THEIR NAME !!! Secondly you will be required to show 12 months of statements, DEMONSTRATING at least $2,400./mo. Deposits AND furnish a sworn notorized statement from your banker/investment house attesting in separate (not group), that the single named applicant has monthly deposits derived from (name ALL sources here) that equal or exceed $2,400.USD per month. THIS MUST BE INVESTMENT INCOME, SS OR A PENSION (s) NOT A CHECK FROM AUNTY EM ! NO running the same money in a circle. You will have to scan and email these as well with your application.

    The consulate will then perform a security/background check, verify all paperwork submitted, AND GIVE you an appointment, that you must ALL appear in person. At this appointment you will be asked all the questions on your initial application, fingerprinted (electronically) then photographed.

    You will then pay $36.00 USD per applicant. They will then place a “VISA” decal in your passport giving you 6 months, and a ONE TIME right to enter Mexico.

    After entering Mexico you MUST report to the nearest Mexican Immigration Office, to the intended place of residence, WITHIN 30 DAYS and complete the application process. Do NOT forget to bring your passports and all original copies to the meeting at the Consulate in the US, they will want them.

    Now some good news, after 2 years, that’s right 2 years you may apply to become a “Citizen”, AND at that point your “FIDEICOMISO” if you have one goes away. Also I must add anyone who tells you dependents get you a 50% reduction or home ownership get you a reduction ARE WRONG !!! Not under the new law! Once more this applies to new applicants, as I understand it, Mexico is handling old residents MUCH differently, and they are being given MUCH greater latitude! AS someone who has spent HUNDREDS of hours reading ALL blogs, from ALL sources, I must say thank you, you were ALL VERY AUTHORITATIVE, BUT ALL WRONG !

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 8, 2012 at 7:59 pm

      Hey Dick,
      Good updates.

      It would be helpful to hear exactly which Mexican Consulate you worked with, because each Consulate is doing things differently.

      I read the 2 things you wrote about what you think are incorrect in our posted information:
      ~ “YOU MUST SHOW $2,400. USD INCOME PER MONTH, PER PERSON, PERIOD !!!” and
      ~ “Also I must add anyone who tells you dependents get you a 50% reduction or home ownership get you a reduction ARE WRONG !!!”

      Fortunately, your information is incorrect on both items.
      I have personally spoken with an INM manager at our local office, as have other talented facilitators in other cities working with their local INM offices, and there clearly are multiple INM offices that are exercising a 1/2-off policy for some applicants who have homes in Mexico. Further the “per person” item where you think that each dependent must show full assets is also only partially true, as there is only one INM office that has been reported as taking this local policy position. These are both areas where the individual Mexican Consulates and INM regional offices are currently exercising varying and different policies. Further, the Mexican Consulates only start the immigration process, they do not control it. Immigration policies are set by INM, not SRE/Consulates.

      Dick,
      Consider for a moment that you have been dealing with a single Mexican Consulate – and then realize that the Mexican Consulates are not part of the same branch of the Mex. Gob. as INM. As written many times on Yucalandia, the Consulates are a part of SRE (similar to the US Stated Dept.)… SRE and the Consulates have nothing to do with INM. INM is a part of SEGOB (making INM closer to the US CIS and ICE – Homeland Security). Just like the US State Department does not dictate Homeland Security CIS immigration policies: SRE does not dictate policy to INM…

      It is the other way around from what you propose: INM formulates and dictates the policies on these matters, and many INM offices are handling your two claimed items exactly oppositely from your claims. I am confident that your SRE-Consulate office acted in good-faith, but their approaches are NOT the last word on INM immigration Requisitos or INM policies.

      We all hope that sometime in the future, SRE and individual Mexican Consulates will start harmonizing their policies with the hoped-for common consistent harmonized INM policies.

      Right now we clearly have significant variations in how the rules are applied – with differences arising between pretty much each INM office, and also between individual Mexican Consulates.

      Again, thanks for the good updates on visa stickers.
      Re Visa stickers and timing: Also note that at least one local INM office is recently requiring the foreign applicants who enter Mexico with the plastic Visa sticker in the passport are being REQUIRED to come to their INM office within just 5 days of entering Mexico. NOT the 30 you describe that fits for most, but not all INM offices.

      So, please, everyone… Foreigners outside of Mexico: Check with both your local Mexican Consulate and your INM office on their site specific requirements. Foreigners inside Mexico: Check with both your local INM office on their site specific requirements.
      Happy Trails,
      steve

      Reply
    • John Garvin says:

      December 8, 2012 at 9:31 pm

      Each family member does not have to prove income. Only one is required. We have talked at length with the head of Immigration for Guanajuato state and the Delegado for San Miguel. One person applies at a consulate and completes the process as much as possible.The rest of the family obtains a visitor visa what we call a FMM. Once the person who was approved on income enters Mexico and obtains their visa the rest of the family can obtain the same visa under the FAMILY classification. Otherwise, a family of say two children and a couple would have to prove 10,000 income per month as of january will all the numbers go up 4 to 5%.
      And, some consulates do vary as to requirements and the actual responses are all over the map. Miami applicants are reporting $1400 for temp resident. Friends in Albuquerque provided bank statements and have no clue how they got 4 years as temp res. but they certainly do not as a couple show anywhere near $4800 / month and as a matter of fact unable to even pay for their mortgage and walking from the house.
      In summary, do not be put off by the financial requirements as many factors are being considered including home ownership inside and outside Mexico.When you call the Hotline they make it clear each consulate and INM office has discretion and from all reports it is being exercised.

      Reply
88. Dirk VanErp says:

    December 8, 2012 at 10:11 am

    I am sorry, in my haste I forgot to mention ALL the people we dealt with in this process at the Mexican Consulate, were very professional, caring and considerate. If you qualify, they are there to GENUINELY help you move to Mexico, I felt very well treated and no hassle, WHATSOEVER! Considering this is a “NEW” process, Mexico is doing a great job!

    VIVA LA MEXICO!

    Reply
89. 1947jbbarker says:

    December 8, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    Dirk
    Where did you do this? City, country?
    Did you get the visa?
    How many dependents you apply for?

    Reply
90. Bettye says:

    December 11, 2012 at 6:46 pm

    Steve,
    I just had a conversation with the officer at the Mexican consulate in Boston who is in charge of issuing visas. He told me we had to show monthly distributions from our investments in order to get our visa…We are currently working and have adequate savings in our retirement funds but didn’t plan to make withdrawals right away as we’ve saved up a year’s worth of cash for expenses. I understood from your previous posts that one option was to have a minimum bank balance. We also own a home in Merida so no rental expenses. Does anyone have experience transitioning from working in the US to achieving “rentista” status permanent residency other than regular deposits to those bank or investment accounts? The balances are certainly over the stated amounts.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 11, 2012 at 7:46 pm

      Hi Bettye,
      I think you are caught in a temporary bureaucratic snafu, where the person you talked with at the Consulate does not know the law.

      Mexican Consulates generally do NOT know Immigration law, because Consulates are a part of a different branch of the Mex. Gov. and they are NOT part of INM. Consulates are a division of SRE (like our State Department) while INM is a division of SEGOB (like Homeland Security).

      Since the person you talked to at the Mexican Consulate in Boston has not been properly trained, I think you need to gently educate them. I think you need to carefully read the sections of our article on the fiscal solvency requirements to qualify for Residente Permanente. Print out a nice copy of the Requisitos for Lineamientos Article 44, http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5276967&fecha=08/11/2012

      As we describe:
      Residente Permanente Income or Deposits or Bank Balance Requirements:
      (Manual/Lineamientos Article 44)
      ~ Documentation of Proof of Financial Independence by Average Bank Balance: Provide the 12 months of original bank statements (plus copies) as proof of income or savings/investments, to show equivalent to twenty five thousand days of the general minimum wage in the District Federal for the previous twelve months…
      … Average Monthly Balance of about $120,000 USD (exactly $1,558,250 pesos) at $13:1 MXN:USD for Residente Permanente.

      or
      Using Method of Regular Deposits of Income or Pension Receipts: (Residente Permanente)
      ~ Have minimum pension income that is the equivalent of five hundred days worth of the current minimum wage in the Federal District, for each of the previous six months – with original and copies of original bank statement. This translates to:
      … about $2,400 USD (exactly $31,165 pesos) a month of regular deposits for one Residente Permanente.

      Make a copy of the header page of the Lineamientos, then go to Article 44 and copy all the pages covering Article 44. BE SURE to go to the Requisitos section of Article 44, and HIGHLIGHT the sections (in Spanish) that specify the Requisitos for Fiscal Solvency:

      =====================================================================================
      Artículo 44. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, de residente temporal a residente permanente:

      Caso en el que se presenta: Aplicable al titular de la condición de estancia de residente temporal que desea residir en territorio nacional de manera permanente y acredita encontrarse en los supuestos señalados en el apartado de criterios de la presente ficha de trámite.
      Fundamento jurídico: Artículos 3, fracciones VI, XI, XXIX; 43, 52, fracciones V y VII; 53, 61, 77, 79, 126, 128, 130 y 131 de la Ley; 1 y 142 del Reglamento.
      Forma de presentación: Formato para solicitar trámite migratorio de estancia.
      Lugar donde se presenta: Oficinas de atención a trámites del Instituto.
      Monto de los derechos: El previsto en el artículo 9 de la Ley Federal de Derechos.
      Plazo máximo de resolución: 20 días hábiles.
      Vigencia de la autorización: Indefinida.
      1 año en caso de menores de 3 años de edad.
      4 años en caso de mayores de 3 años y menores de 18 años de edad.
      Excepciones al artículo 15-A de la LFPA: Se requiere original de todos los documentos que se señalan a continuación:

      Requisitos:
      1. Original y copia del pasaporte, documento de identidad y viaje o documento oficial que haya exhibido para obtener la condición de estancia de residente temporal;
      2. Tarjeta de residente temporal, válida y vigente;
      3. Comprobante del pago de derechos por la recepción y estudio de la solicitud de cambio de condición, de conformidad con lo establecido en la Ley Federal de Derechos;
      4. En caso de sistema de puntos, deberá presentar los documentos que acrediten los indicadores y puntaje mínimo requeridos conforme al acuerdo que al efecto se publique en el Diario Oficial de la Federación;
      5. En el caso de pensionados o jubilados deberán presentar:
      a) Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinticinco mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos doce meses, o
      b) Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con ingresos o pensión mensual libre de gravámenes equivalente a quinientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses, y
      6. En caso de que hayan transcurrido cuatro años desde que cuenta con permiso de residente temporal, deberá indicar expresamente en su solicitud de trámite que solicita el cambio por esta vía.

      Criterios de resolución:
      I. El titular de la condición de estancia de residente temporal podrá cambiar a la condición de residente permanente por:
      a) Sistema de puntos;
      b) Ser jubilado o pensionado que perciba del exterior recursos suficientes que permitan vivir en territorio nacional, o
      c) Que hayan transcurrido cuatro años desde que cuenta con permiso de residente temporal.
      II. En el caso de solicitudes presentadas por haber transcurrido cuatro años como residente temporal, la autoridad migratoria verificará tal circunstancia.
      III. La autoridad migratoria podrá cancelar la condición de residente temporal por las causas señaladas en los artículos 64 de la Ley y 163 del Reglamento.
      Información importante para el usuario:
      – La persona extranjera en caso de resolución positiva, deberá presentar los requisitos correspondientes, para la expedición de documento migratorio por autorización de condición de estancia en términos del artículo 33 de los presentes Lineamientos.
      – La persona extranjera que cambie de residente temporal a residente permanente, deberá continuar informando cualquier cambio de estado civil, cambio de nacionalidad por una diversa a la cual ingresó, domicilio o lugar de trabajo de acuerdo a lo señalado en el artículo 63 de la Ley.
      En caso de no cumplir con dicha obligación se hará acreedor a las sanciones previstas en el artículo 158 de la Ley.
      ==========================================================================================================

      I bolded the sections you need to pay attention to. Note that they might require you to have ALREADY completed 4 years on a Residente Temporal or FM2 or FM3. This fiscal solvency section of the regs is also for people who are retired or retiring… Since you are not planning to work in Mexico, you officially qualify as a Jubilado – retired person…

      You need to specifically HIGHLIGHT Requisitos, Item 5a, that clearly describes the test of using 12 months of bank or investment account balances to prove a minimum ANNUAL average balance as:
      12 months of original bank statements (plus copies) as proof of income or savings/investments, to show equivalent to twenty five thousand days of the general minimum wage in the District Federal for the previous twelve months…
      … Average Monthly Balance of about $120,000 USD (exactly $1,558,250 pesos) at $13:1 MXN:USD for Residente Permanente.

      Because Consulate personnel really do not know the rules, you do not want to humiliate them for being trained poorly. So, tread gently, realize that they would have to read over 450 pages of government legal-ese to know this, and then give them the applicable sections of the official rules from the DOF, with the key passages highlighted, as I listed in BOLD in this extended comment.
      Happy Trails,
      steve

      Reply
91. Bettye says:

    December 11, 2012 at 9:16 pm

    Thanks Steve,
    That was how I had read it from your earlier posts…The whole change in language is especially confusing when describing the new categories…We want to get the equivalent of the old FM2–so it seems the consulate gives you a visa temporal which we then have 30 days to convert to residente permanente?? if I’m correct. Also, eventually we may want to set up a Mexican corporation to work in Mexico but it seems that can be changed at a later date with a notorio handling the process. The consulate employee also told me he is the one to sign off on the household goods paperwork as well so all approvals are completely up to him apparently—-a bit scary–but did say the process is short (2 days or so).

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 12, 2012 at 6:58 am

      Hi Bettye,
      Yes, you now have a good grasp of things.
      steve

      Reply
92. Josephine Carlson says:

    December 12, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Hi Steve,
    Ive been searching and searching and cannot find an answer – Im a Danish citizen going to Mexico in the beginning of next year and as a tourist I get up to 180 days – before these 180 days are up is it possible for me to exit the country to then enter again for another 180 days?
    Kind regards,

    Josephine

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      December 12, 2012 at 4:42 pm

      Hi Josephine,
      Yes, you definitely can go to a border, and without leaving Mexico, you can turn in your “old” Visitante permit and you can get a fresh “new” Visitante permit within minutes of surrendering your “old” Visitante permit.
      steve

      Reply
      • Dermot Kenny says:

        December 18, 2012 at 2:53 pm

        Correct me if I am wrong but the i80 days only applies to U>S and Canadian citizens. I came in on an Irish passport one time and was only given 90 days as I was told this is what Europeans are eligible for. Another time I also came in on my Canadian passport and only received 90 days. When I questioned this with INM I was told it is at the discretion of the immigration officer who meets you when you land at the airport to grant the amount of days you are allowed to stay in Mexico as a visitor
      • yucalandia says:

        December 18, 2012 at 6:06 pm

        Dermot,
        All visitors in Mexico on Visitante visas are allowed up to 180 days, at the discretion of the INM agent handling the application. Calderon previously requested that INM agents automatically give ALL visitors the max of 180 days, but not all agents follow this guidance.
        steve
93. John Garvin says:

    December 13, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    In talking with the Hotline today it was discovered the investment clause allowing for a visa is only tied in to a point system. They stated the point system should be ready mid-January. Until that time, only 4 years on a visa OR a pension sourced income of $2400 a month will allow you to become a Permanent Resident.

    Reply
    • Joe says:

      December 15, 2012 at 5:55 am

      My application for permanent residence based on points was accepted 23 November: it has now moved to the “ha sido clasificado” stage.

      Whether they will slow the process until the details of the point system are published remains to be seen: if they feel the application is strong, they may go ahead with it anyway, there being analogs to the point system contained in the law detailing the various accelerated paths to citizenship.

      Reply
    • Ric Hoffman says:

      January 29, 2013 at 10:20 am

      Mexconnect post: http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=185244#185244

      Two other applications were accepted today, one based on 500 times daily wage for 6 months and the other based on 25000 times daily wage over 12 months average. As with my application both were submitted prior to their natural expiration date. Their original cards expire sometime in August 2013.

      Reply
    • Nicole says:

      February 4, 2013 at 5:49 pm

      I did not understand your last post. Are you saying that, without a PENSION income, a person w/out having lived here 4 years cannot get a permanent residency visa? Frankly, I thought it had been determined that NOBODY could get a permanent residency visa w/out first living here on a “temporary residency” basis, for at least 4 years. If I am not correct, I wonder why MX would allow pensioners early permanency and would deny, say, multi-millionaires without a pension (or other source of MONTHLY income) the same status. ?

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        February 4, 2013 at 6:03 pm

        Nicole,
        Please re-read the section on Proof of Financial Independence for Residency Applicants. . This section describes the personal fiscal solvency requirements for all types of applicants, including: Retirees, people with pension income, people with substantial savings, people with sufficient monthly income, people with real estate in Mexico, etc etc.

        When re-reading this section, pay attention to the section describing how people with over $125,000 USD in average annual savings can qualify for Residente Permanente – with no prior residency and no pension income. Individual Consulates and some INM offices are adding an extra requirement that the applicant have 1 or 2 years of prior residency, but both the 2011 INM law and the Lineamientos both allow people with no prior residency in Mexico to qualify immediately for Permanent Residency.
        steve
      • Nicole says:

        February 4, 2013 at 6:46 pm

        Thank you. I am familiar with the financial requirements, although I did not know that the exchange rate had changed to the point that, what was once a $96,000 requirement is now up to $125,000. (???) What I did not understand was this post. (Maybe I read it out of context, i.e., without having seen the question to which it responded.)

        “December 13, 2012 at 2:26 pm

        “In talking with the Hotline today it was discovered the investment clause allowing for a visa is only tied in to a point system. They stated the point system should be ready mid-January. Until that time, only 4 years on a visa OR a pension sourced income of $2400 a month will allow you to become a Permanent Resident.”
      • yucalandia says:

        February 4, 2013 at 7:13 pm

        Nicole,
        Based on your comments and your questions, you are not familiar with the financial requirements.

        Please re-read the section on Proof of Financial Independence for Residency Applicants. Click on the link.

        Read how Resident Permanente requires roughly $125,000 in average savings, while Residente Temporal requires $100,000. There is no exchange rate issue.

        You quote a reader’s post/comment as if it must have legitimate information. Please realize that posts by various readers have no requirements for accuracy, precision, or substance (as we do not edit posts to correct their factual or logical errors). The post is overly narrow in its explanation of the INM Law and INM Lineamientos. This poster is describing their personal understanding, which does not actually fit either the Law, nor the Lineamientos, nor reality at many INM offices.
        steve

94. Pingback: Recent Updates to Yucalandia | Surviving Yucatan

95. James K. says:

    December 17, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Update from San Francisco.

    It’s been 2 weeks since first applying for our Temporary Residency permit.

    Reminder: we are a same-sex couple with more than enough assets, they were unsure how to divide a joint checking account between the two of us, even though we met the requirements from pay stubs and a monthly payment from a company sale.

    We have been down there twice. The first visit, the consulate asked us to redo out letter of intent and spell out exactly how we were going to support ourselves and to bring notarized letters from each other as to the division of assets (50/50). We did all this, even had out LOIs notarized. We went back last Monday to turn them in and were told that all of the originals were fine and that we didn’t need these new letters. LOL. We stayed surprisingly light and happy through that. Although, I could have saved $40 in notary fees. It was the same guy, the actual consulate. He showed us an email he sent to Mexico City for clarification of our situation, detailing everything with great accuracy and understanding (he poured through all of our papers and found it all).

    Today. We got our response. He responded to an email and said he got a response and will call us later today to discuss the details and set up a time for our fingerprints. Sounds like an approval to me!

    I saw someone else’s comment above and wanted to reiterate it. At no time did we try to tell him how to do his job or get visibly frustrated with him. He had the massive document open on his screen and kept scrolling. Realizing he was left to interpret this at such a local level, we were cautious in how we approached him. We would make suggestions as though they came from him “Well, if they can’t divide the checking account, do you think they could apply it to one of us and then use the company sale payments for the other?”

    Reply
96. Lisa Friesn says:

    January 4, 2013 at 10:43 am

    My husband and I currently have FM3 No Immigrante Lucrativas. We received them in March 2010. They have a “2” on the back of them. We live in Mexico full time. We own our own home but the purchase price was far less than the $195K US. We own our own business, which is completely legal and we pay taxes but we do not employ any Mexicans. Our long term goal was to be able to provide employment but at this time it is not possible. All our products are sourced from within Mexico so in the long run we are providing employment but obviously not in the way the law requires. We are in our early 40’s and do not have any pension income. We have money in the bank but not $100K. If I am reading between the lines correctly, as we don’t qualify financially we will have to close our business and leave the country. Our only option is to come in on the 180 tourist visas which does not allow us to work. If we can’t work, we can’t stay. Am I correct or is there something I am missing?

    Reply
    • Lisa Friesen says:

      January 9, 2013 at 10:38 am

      Any information would be appreciated.

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        January 9, 2013 at 3:40 pm

        Hi Lisa,
        We have roughly 60 pages of information on immigrating to Mexico and visiting Mexico in just this article.

        What information do you want? Can you ask a specific question, or maybe your entry is robot-spam?
        steve
97. Linda Leonard says:

    January 7, 2013 at 2:36 pm

    I posted in November and December about our experience here in Zihuatanejo, but I will re-cap now so everyone will get the whole story. My husband and I have had our FM3’s since 2009. We were due to renew in January. In November we went to the Migracion here in Zihua to see what they would tell us. We were told we qualified to be Permanent Residents- bring copies of 1st page of passport, photos, and 6 months of bank statements. We began to worry about the bank statements since we do not have the necessary income to qualify. During the next few weeks we heard many different stories from several people’s visits to Migracion. I decided to check again in December, just before they closed for Christmas break. We were told we needed 1 year of temporary resident status. Bring 3 months of bank statements, same passport copy and photos. Very interesting. Our Mexican friends have a friend who works with Migracion. We were taken by our friends to see her. She said we certainly qualify for Permanent Resident status. She didn’t know what we would need to take with us, since that is not the area that she works in.
    Well, today was the day! We went to do whatever they would tell us to do. We took our passport copies and photos. I had a file folder with bank statements for the past year, also bank statements showing investments, many different forms proving ownership of our condo here in Zihua- I felt I had everything anyone might ask for). We were told….congratulations! This is the last time you will have to come here and the last time you will have to pay!! You will be Residentes Permanentes. We signed the forms she printed for each of us, handed over our passport copies and photos. Went to the bank to pay the 1000 pesos/each fee, and the 3815 pesos/each cost for our status, and returned to Migracion. They did not ask for any bank statements at all. Whew! She says our apps go to Acapulco for acceptance. They will call us then, we will return to do fingerprints and provide signatures for our cards, then it will take about a month for our cards to arrive. Very simple. Hopefully all will go very well for us from this point on.

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      January 7, 2013 at 2:45 pm

      Hooray !

      Do you mind telling us if you actually met any of the individual formal financial requirements for Permanent Residence, or did they seem to consider a combination of real estate, some pension/Social Security, and some savings enough in aggregate to qualify you?

      Without revealing too much personal information, it would be good to hear any of the specifics of your typical monthly deposits etc you choose to share.
      THANKS for the very good update !

      I am confident that other readers really appreciate the information you have shared.
      steve

      Reply
      • JRG says:

        January 7, 2013 at 2:55 pm

        This is the process since Nov 9 in SMA. If 4 years no financials are required. Slowly those offices insisting on financials after 4 years are learning the process. Chapala appears to finally to have started this practice and follow the law.
        Until a point system is implemented, which is to be later this month, home ownership, investments education means nothing. Now some offices may have considered this but call the Hotline and they will confirm this. Only pension sourced income with bank statements, letters from pension source and both translated are to be accepted for Permanent Resident until point system implemented..
    • Linda Leonard says:

      February 21, 2013 at 2:04 pm

      Continuing on…. It has been about 7 weeks since I wrote the above account of our experience, and since we submitted our applications for permanent resident. As it says above, they said they would call us to return to do fingerprints. Well no one called, so yesterday we checked regarding our status. They said “we have been waiting for you to come in to do your fingerprints”. ok- so no one is going to call us. They said we should have checked back in about a week later. hmmm So now we have been fingerprinted. They say our application is totally approved, and we should call in about 2 weeks to see if our document (card, I think) is ready for us. Will report again then.

      Reply
      • yucalandia says:

        February 21, 2013 at 4:12 pm

        nice.
      • Linda Leonard says:

        March 12, 2013 at 2:35 pm

        Well we both have our Residente Permanente cards. Just over 2 weeks since we were fingerprinted. I gave it a couple of days beyond the 2 weeks, and both cards were there. So all in all- not a bad process at all.
98. Linda Leonard says:

    January 7, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    I guess I wasn’t very clear. My biggest relief was that they didn’t ask for ANYTHING financial at all. We provided 3 months of bank statements when we applied for our 1st FM3’s. At that time, 2009, we need 12,000 pesos per month each for income, and because we own our condo, that requirement was reduced by 50%. Today, for Permanent Resident, the amount required is much higher, which created our concerns. I had read, here, that proof of finances should not be required for people who already have FM2 or FM3. But both times we went to Migracion, it seemed that they WERE going to required that from us. We were so happy they didn’t require any financial information at all, so I didn’t need any of the documents I was prepared to hand over.

    Reply
99. Brad Johnson says:

    January 7, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    My wife and I went to the consulate in Phoenix on December 21, 2012, to apply for Residencia Temporal, during a holiday visit to relatives and a storage unit raid. We had been unable to schedule an appointment, or to get any response by telephone or email, prior to our return. We were advised when we arrived that they only schedule appointments for visa applications on Wednesdays, and that January 2, 2013, was the next day an appointment was available. We were further advised that the individual handling these applications was very busy, and they were unable to say exactly when our second appointment (the ‘biometric’ one, I assume fingerprints) could be scheduled. It became clear we would have to stay there until mid-January at the earliest, which was not practical (we have to pay rent in Puerto Vallarta January 14), so we returned on new ‘tourist visas’ (FMM’s, I guess).

    Do you think we can avail ourselves of the somewhat more friendly procedures in San Antonio or Chicago, or must we deal with an extremely inconvenient process in Phoenix (our last residence before PV)? We are likely to be permanent tourists rather than budget three or four weeks in Phoenix motels for the privilege of making a significant contribution to the Mexican economy as temporary residents (income requirements are not a problem). And I suspect we are not the only US citizens facing this choice, much as I do not look forward to the three-day drives to AZ each 180 days. Or do you think there might be a little greater consistency and/or convenience in consular procedures June/July?

    Reply
    • yucalandia says:

      January 7, 2013 at 11:33 pm

      Hi Brad,
      Good good information and questions.

      I certainly hope and expect that the Phoenix consulate will get better organized by June or July. Clearly, the Chicago consulate has been handling cases the same day. Is there a cheap Southwest Airlines flight option available for you in and out of Chicago? Maybe using Midway?

      If you have sufficient assets and pension income, you may qualify immediately for Permanent Residency at some Consulates, which would eliminate any future hassles, by having Permanent Residency, after just a single consulate visit in the USA. ??? In effect, go “shopping” for a Mexican consulate in the USA that accepts and processes applications quickly, has an airport with cheap flights, and that is approving Permanent Residency card application for people with no prior INM permits. ???
      steve

      Reply
100. Terri Rasmussen says:

     January 8, 2013 at 12:29 pm

     Wow…this is all very confusing to me. My husband and I have lived in Mexico for more than 5 years. We currently have the status No Immigrante Rentistas and our visas are on the fourth and final renewal. What happens next? Do we have to leave the country and start all over to get new Temporary Resident visas? Can we use our five years as FM3’s to apply for permanent resident status without leaving the country. Would the latter force us to get rid of our US plated vehicle?
     Do we have to wait until 30 days before our visas expire to make the change or can we apply whenever we want to?
     Terri

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 8, 2013 at 6:16 pm

       Hi Terri,
       You need to speak with your local INM office. Some INM offices are welcoming people in your position to apply for Residente Permanente, a few others have not. Our local office is encouraging one group of expats in your situation to apply early for changing to Residente Permanente, abandoning their current No Inmigrante permits before they expire.

       In any case, ONLY expats here on visitor permits must leave Mexico to apply for Temporary or Permanent Residency. As a current No Inmigrante, you would only have to leave Mexico if you allow your INM permit to expire before officially starting your application for a new Residency permit.

       Re foreign plated cars and Permanent Residency: It is becoming clearer (but not finalized) that Aduana is considering a plan where the new Residente Permanentes who have foreign plated cars, will allow the new Permanent Residents to keep their car for a year, and then send them a letter describing how much longer they can keep the car in Mexico. None of this is finalized, and hopefully we will clearly know Aduana’s final plan this month on how to handle this issue.
       steve

       Reply
101. John Calypso says:

     January 9, 2013 at 1:26 pm

     Here in Puerto Escondido, Oaxaca we received our NUT numbers and passwords by submitted proper documents as described here:
     http://www.vivaveracruz.com/blog/

     We now wait about 20 days for our cards – Your information here was helpful.
     Thank You

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 9, 2013 at 5:37 pm

       Great!

       Did you apply for Permanent Residency? Did you have to show financial documents? or was this a simple renewal/extension of an FM3/FM2 over to Residente Temporal? What requirements did they give you, if it is not too personal to describe?

       Now that the INM offices have opened after the Holiday break: There have been a slew of expat reports from across Mexico describing how people are getting both Permanent Residency and Temporary Residency, shifting from FM2s and FM3s, working and Rentista, without having to show financial documents, and without having to meet the specific Personal Fiscal Solvency requirements…. I have made comments on this at the top of this article.

       Give us a shout when you actually get your new Residency Cards!
       steve

       Reply
102. Lisa Friesen says:

     January 11, 2013 at 9:52 am

     My husband and I currently have FM3 No Immigrante Lucrativas. We received them in March 2010. They have a “2″ on the back of them. We live in Mexico full time. We own our own home but the purchase price was far less than the $195K US. We own our own business, which is completely legal and we pay taxes but we do not employ any Mexicans. Our long term goal was to be able to provide employment but at this time it is not possible. All our products are sourced from within Mexico so in the long run we are providing employment but obviously not in the way the law requires. We are in our early 40′s and do not have any pension income. We have money in the bank but not $100K. If I am reading between the lines correctly, as we don’t qualify financially we will have to close our business and leave the country. Our only option is to come in on the 180 tourist visas which does not allow us to work. If we can’t work, we can’t stay. Am I correct or is there something I am missing?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 11, 2013 at 11:02 am

       Hi Lisa,
       You understand the strict legal aspects well. I think you might be missing 2 salient practical aspects of how the INM systems are actually working.

       1. As described in our latest post https://yucalandia.com/2013/01/09/january-2013-updates-to-immigration-requirements-for-getting-residency-in-mexico-or-immigrating-to-mexico/ many many expats across Mexico who are simply renewing/extending their current FM3 as the new Residente Temporal, are not being required to show financial documents. There are already examples of people with working FM3’s in your same position who have been approved and just received their Residente Temporal cards from INM. One gentleman was required to sign a simple letter verifying that his “financial situation had not changed.” I suggest you put this statement into your request letter when you apply to the INM for your new temporary residence permit.

       2. For the people who have FM3’s and FM2’s who are being asked for financial documents, and they meet none of the individual requirements for proving personal Fiscal Solvency, then their INM offices are generally accepting an aggregate of homeownership, savings balances, and income to qualify these people.

       Hopefully, your local office will use their legally mandated discretion/latitude to approve you, just as many others across Mexico are being approved, without meeting the specific requirements. Can you get reliable information about how your office is doing it?

       If recent information on your local INM makes it appear that you will have problems with the local policy enforcemnt: Sometimes if there are problems it can really help to use a local facilitator or local lawyer (individuals that your local INM agents know and trust and who have a TRACK RECORD OF SUCCESSFUL APPLICATIONS under the new law) to make your application – as the local INM agents trust them and will approve things they may not approve for Do It Yourself people ??

       steve

       Reply
103. John Calypso says:

     January 11, 2013 at 1:16 pm

     Steve – Yes we are filing for Residente Permanete. Here in Puerto Escondido they did require financial statements (bank or savings) – and in Spanish. They also advised us that my having only one year with a FM3 was insufficient time. But because we had very good looking financials and my wife has met the 4 year prior possession of the FM3, they were going to process it anyway. I go into some detail at my Blog.

     We originally used your request letter (the one that passed there in Merida) it was rejected. They spent a lot of time writing a letter for us.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 11, 2013 at 3:45 pm

       Hi John,
       Good stuff.

       We appreciate you finding our information and content useful to use on your site. As we note at the bottom of every one of our pages, please cite our website and the specific webpage for each item you have copied from Yucalandia, and posted on your blog.

       Here’s a link you can cut and paste into your site to give proper attributions:
       https://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/
       Thanks,
       steve

       Reply
104. rubygeorgina says:

     January 13, 2013 at 4:28 pm

     Another question: I will renew my visa before my partner. I read somewhere that Mexico recognizes common law partners and so wonder if once I am approved if my partner can tag along with regard to financial requirements. OR does he have to provide independent means of $2500 USd per month. Thank you.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 13, 2013 at 8:44 pm

       ruby,
       “Partner” is a sufficiently generic term that I have no idea what it means in your case. If you want to have your partner qualify as a concubino or concubina, I suggest you contact an immigration attorney for the specifics. The 2011 INM law does approve concubinos for Residency, but I do not know the legal requirements for officially proving a preexisting/ongoing concubino relationship.
       steve

       Reply
105. rubygeorgina says:

     January 13, 2013 at 4:30 pm

     Think my first question didn’t get posted so excuse me while I repost. I have FM2 with 2 proroga and am thinking of moving directly to Permanente.. I believe I can do this with out renewing as Temporal. Correct? But that likely means I cannot keep my foreign plated vehicle. I have been unable to find rulings on this subject. And wonder if it becomes illegal 1) how long before it needs to be removed? and 2) would I be able to insure it in Jalisco should I decide to keep it?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 13, 2013 at 8:44 pm

       previously answered. I did not see your post until just now, and our blog host has things set up so that we approve posts before they appear.

       Reply
106. rubygeorgina says:

     January 14, 2013 at 7:30 am

     Thanks! Going to a seminar at the Lake Chapala Society this coming Friday, January 18th. Information session being presented by the Jefe of the INM office in Chapala to help clear up confusion. Will let you know what I find out as I am sure it will be helpful information to all.

     Reply
107. Merlenna says:

     January 14, 2013 at 4:53 pm

     Question, lets say someone does not qualify for a Residente Temporal and they have a foreign plated vehicle. Can they be allowed to leave the country by driving over the border every 6 months indefinitely or is there a limit ?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 14, 2013 at 9:06 pm

       Hi Merlenna, There is no limit. You would simply stop and cancel the permit every time, and then refile the paperwork for a new permit every time, and give Banjercito a $300 – $400 deposit every time, and file for refunds on the prior deposits every time.

       Reply
108. MrBuzz says:

     January 14, 2013 at 9:56 pm

     I haven’t read all comments. But…I was at the Progreso INM office today, Jan 14, and they are definitely looking at bank statements, requiring 6 months of statements, but only looking for deposits to the account to show income. I have had an FM3 for one year and an FM2 for 2 years…and the only thing I could do was renew to get a Temporary visa. I should have been eligible for a Permanent visa but I don’t have income…I have money….I’m too young for pension or Social Security….my bank statements show well over a couple hundred thousand dollars sustained balance…but no deposits. Even though I pointed out the balances on the statements the girl told me that deposits are all they are looking at and showed me an INM document that states the same. I also own 5 properties in the Yucatan but they told me that owning property does not count towards eligibility. I was previously told that owning property did put you in the line for Permanent status.
     The only good thing…and this remains to be seen…is that she told me that with the new Temporary visa I don’t have to start over….next year I will have over four years here and then nothing will matter. She actually said that…after four years they don’t look at statements at all. So…nothing I did or “learned” today made any sense at all! I’ll have to wait until next year to see where I go with my Temporary visa and how this new process has evolved after the learning curve.
     Lesson for everyone…bank statements need to SHOW DEPOSITS!! Next year I will be transferring money back & forth from my checking to my savings accounts so that my statements show deposits.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 15, 2013 at 7:15 am

       Hi Buzz,
       The clerks in Progreso are definitely confused, but some of it makes sense to us.

       If you read the Proof of Financial Independence for Residency Applicants section above, INM does not currently consider property ownership when determining if you meet the Personal Fiscal Solvency requirement for Residente permanente.

       You might want to us a little caution in moving money “back & forth from my checking to my savings accounts so that my statements show deposits“. When gringos do this, it causes the INM to require official NOTARIZED letters on bank stationary, for all future gringo applicants. from the US banks certifying that the income is coming from pensions or from social security – just to keep a few gringos from cheating. Other INM offices are requiring these Notarized letters from the USA because of gringos doing a money dance between their personal accounts. I would personally not like to see the already slightly confused Progreso clerks start adding even more requirements just to get gringos to follow the rules on pension and SSI income.

       Fortunately, it will be all good for you next year, with 4 years of prior residency completed.
       steve

       Reply
109. Holly says:

     January 15, 2013 at 7:45 am

     Puerto Vallarta. My husband held an fm3 for 4 or 5 years and then last year received an fm3 Lucrativa. He was given a new laminated card with 1 on the back. He has been denied Permanente and we have had to pay over 4800 pesos for a 2 year renewal at which time he can convert to Permanente. I was a year behind getting my fm3 and also have Lucrativa, however, mine has a 3 on the back of my card so I will be given Permanente status as I was told yesterday. the fee for me is 3800 + 1000 for an investigation fee. This is so crazy since he has more time than I do, which they admitted to our facilitator, but said “those are the new rules”. If his fm3 did not expire in 2 days we would try perhaps to apply in Guanajuato as we own a house there also, but alas we are out of time and see no other options. Your thoughts?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 15, 2013 at 12:38 pm

       Holly,
       I think it is in all how you count things. You have 3 years completed on your current permit. Your hubby has only one year completed on his current permit. You have more seniority…

       Whomever advised your husband to change to a new different INM permit last year, while the Residente Permanente was coming in a year, (since the original law was published in May 2011), did not give your husband the advice that would get him to Residente Permanente by the shortest path. Your facilitator simply did not read the 2011 law carefully or did not read it at all. The law was worded in specific ways 19 months ago, that we were advising people that they would not be allowed to sum / aggregate years of INM permits from different INM permits under the new system. The law was clearly worded… Maybe it is time to find a facilitator who studies the law in a timely way, and knows the INM rules?

       Unfortunately, I think that boat sailed for your husband, when he chose to change INM permit types last year.

       We are pleased that they granted your Residente Permanente a year earlier than the period described in the law.
       Did they require either of you to produce financial documents proving personal Fiscal Solvency for each of you?
       steve

       Reply
       • Rancho Sol y Mar says:

         January 17, 2013 at 4:38 pm

         We did not have to provide financials.

         “Worry is praying for what you don’t want”.
       • markemmer says:

         February 17, 2013 at 1:03 pm

         Steve, I just noticed this post of yours, and think it bears correcting — the part about Holly getting her RP a year earlier than the period described in the law. She stated that she had a 3 on the back of her FM3. That is Prorroga 3, which is her third extension. Her first year FM3 had no number at all on the back. Her first year plus three extensions is 4 years total, which is why she was eligible for RP. (My first FM3 had no number on the back, my first renewal had Prorroga 1, etc.)

         That doesn’t completely explain why her husband’s new FM3 had Prorroga 1 on it, unless he had five years on the previous one and they gave him credit for the difference between four and five years. That’s pure speculation that his previous card was Prorroga 4 and that they count in such a manner.

         In any event, her RP seems to be completely by the book.

         Mark
110. yucalandia says:

     January 16, 2013 at 7:52 pm

     Nancy and Linda,
     You have been commenting on a very early post/comment by Lic. Solomon Freimuth, so, your posts are showing up at the beginning of this article’s Comment section under Solomon’s original comment.

     Jump to the top of the Comments on this article to see what you two have been writing.
     steve

     Reply
111. Merlenna says:

     January 17, 2013 at 9:13 am

     We are in the US now and this is what we were emailed from the Embassy as requirements to apply from a tourist visa to a Residente Temporal (Old FM3)

     Mr. Brian Higby,
     Let me inform to you that accordingly the new immigration law, there are not FM3 status any longer, if you apply for Temporary Residency, the requirements are the following:
     REQUIREMENTS TO OBTAIN A MEXICAN VISA
     FOR TEMPORARY RESIDENCY
     (TO STAY IN MEXICO FOR OVER 180 DAYS AND UP TO 4 YEARS)

     I.- VALID PASSPORT, ORIGINAL AND A COPY
     II.- ONE COLOR PHOTO PASSPORT SIZE, FRONT VIEW, NO GLASSES, WHITE BACKGROUND
     III.- IF APPLICANT IS NOT A U.S CITIZEN, NEEDS TO PROVE LEGAL STATUS IN THE UNITED STATES
     IV.- SUBMIT DOCUMENTS, PROVING ANY OF THE FOLLOWING ASSUMPTIONS:
     a.- PROOF OF ECONOMIC SOLVENCY
     1.- ORIGINAL AND A COPY OF INVESTMENTS OR BANK STATEMENTS WITH A MINIMUN BALANCE OF 95,500 DOLLARS IN THE LAST TWELVE MONTHS; OR
     2.- ORIGINAL AND A COPY OF DOCUMENTS SHOWING A MINIMUM MONTHLY INCOME OR RETIREMENT PENSION OF 1,900 DOLLARS AFTER TAXES IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS; OR
     b.- SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH WITHIN MEXICO’S INTERNATIONAL WATERS;
     c.- AN INVITATION LETTER FROM A PRESTIGIOUS MEXICAN ORGANIZATION (PUBLIC OR PRIVATE INSTITUTION);
     d.- BY FAMILY UNIT (b, c, d APPLICANTS MUST CONTACT THE CONSULAR OFFICE TO INQUIRE ABOUT SPECIFIC DOCUMENTS REQUIRED IN EACH CASE)
     e.- OWNERSHIP OF REAL ESTATE IN MEXICO.- ORIGINAL AND A COPY OF PROPERTY TITLE (ESCRITURA PUBLICA OTORGADA ANTE NOTARIO PUBLICO), WITH A MINIMUN VALUE OF 2,500,000 PESOS
     V.- APPLICATION FORM
     IV.- FEE: 36.00 DOLLARS FOR THE CONSULAR VISA
     THE CONSULAR REPRESENTATION WILL ISSUE A ONE-ENTRY VISA GOOD FOR 180 DAYS. BEARER MUST PRESENT IT AT THE PORT OF ENTRY ALONG WITH HIS/HER PASSPORT, AND WILL REQUEST INMIGRATION FORM FMM (FORMA MIGRATORIA MULTIPLE) WICH WILL BE SUBMITTED TO THE INM (INSTITUTO NACIONAL DE MIGRACION) WITHIN 30 DAYS TO OBTAIN THE TEMPORARY RESIDENT CARD.
     THIS STATUS DOES NOT ALLOW TO WORK IN MEXICO WITHOUT THE SPECIFIC AUTHORIZATION FROM THE INSTITUTO NACIONAL DE MIGRACION (INM).

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 17, 2013 at 9:50 am

       Hi Merlenna,
       This is very good information.

       It fits with our previous understandings, but we had not seen the official $30 consular fee, and their information requests for scientific research, etc, fits the reported plan for INM to start using a points system, where an applicant does not have to meet any single requirement, but if the applicant partially meets a variety of requirements, INM can create an aggregate score that qualifies the applicant.
       Which city’s Consulate issued this? or did it come from the Mexican Embassy in Washington DC?

       Thanks!
       steve

       Reply
       • Merlenna says:

         January 23, 2013 at 5:34 pm

         Well we just got word today we do not qualify for a residente temporal. New information we were told is the Income Tax reports are what they look at, not just income in bank statements., even though we had given the last 12 months of statements. So since we do not make enough income/month to qualify, we need to leave the country every 6 months. So this is good information for anyone to know if they want to apply for a Temporary Resident Visa. Hope it helps some not have to go through what we did.
       • yucalandia says:

         January 23, 2013 at 8:14 pm

         Good Update.

         Which Mexican Consulate has added the extra requirement for income tax statements?

         There are reports that INM will publish the details of the new “Points System” this month. The “Points System” will allow some people to qualify using a combination of partially meeting multiple requirements. Some INM offices are already using this system, to consider a combination of: savings, property, whether your professional qualifications could aid Mexico, and monthly income to qualify applicants for residency. You might qualify under the new “Points System”, so stay tuned, and a new window of opportunity may open for you.
         steve
112. Barry says:

     January 17, 2013 at 4:55 pm

     New procedure change:
     In former years we would monitor our Case Number on the internet to see when our new visa was ready. I have been monitoring the file on the internet and there has been no change from the last entry on December 12 when we had to go in and be finger printed.
     However today January 17 we received a bilingual Spanish/English email (see below) to our personal email address to let us know that our Temporary Resident Visa was ready for pickup and to suggest that we did not need to line-up but just to check directly at the window. What great customer service they are providing in Puerto Vallarta!
     FYI – original documentation stamped November 26. Went back for fingerprints December 12 and today is the first news. I will let you know what happens when we go to pick up the new Visa tomorrow.

     Hola, Buenos Días.
     Le informo que ya puede recoger su credencial dentro del horario de atención (LUNES A VIERNES DE 10:00 AM A 1:00 PM).
     *Pasar directamente a la ventanilla de ENTREGA DE DOCUMENTOS. (No necesita tomar turno)
     Saludos.
     ***************************************************************************************
     Hi, Good morning.
     Please be informed that the new forms are ready to pick up (MONDAY TO FRIDAY 10:00 AM TO 1:00 PM).
     * PICK UP WINDOW (Don’t take a number)
     Yazmín Alejandra López Rodríguez
     Coord. de Unidad en Áreas de Servicios Migratorios.
     Subdelegación Federal del INM en Jalisco
     Tel. 322 22 4 76 53, 22 4 79 70
     Red de Voz. 60705
     ylopez@inami.gob.mx
     De conformidad con los artículos 13, 14 y 63 de la Ley Federal de Transparencia y Acceso a la Información Pública Gubernamental y 51 de la Ley de Seguridad Nacional la información contenida en este mensaje electrónico o anexo al mismo podrá ser considerada como reservada o confidencial, por lo que su uso, reproducción, difusión o distribución indebidos ya sea total o parcial estan estrictamente prohibidos si se recibe esta comunicación por error, eliminar de su computadora el mensaje o cualquier documento adjunto, absténgase de efectuar su reproducción, difusión o distribución, notifique esta situación al remitente, en caso de incumplimiento, además de las responsabilidades administrativas puede estar sujeto a sanciones del orden civil o penal que procedan conforme a lo previsto en los artículos 210,211,211 BIS,211 bis 1,211 bis 7,214 fracción 4 del Código Penal Federal y demás relativos y aplicables de la legislación federal, la información de este correo así como la contenida en los documentos que se adjuntan pueden ser objeto de solicitudes de acceso a la información.
     Instituto Nacional de Migración.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 17, 2013 at 6:54 pm

       Very cool !

       Reply
113. Barry says:

     January 18, 2013 at 2:29 pm

     Today we went in to the counter and straight away they located our new visa cards and we signed for them and were out of there in 10 minutes. They are valid until December 2015.

     Reply
114. 1947jbbarker says:

     January 18, 2013 at 6:15 pm

     See our previous post dated December 7, 2012 at 5:09 pm.
     My wife has her temp in her US passport to go to Mexico and get her card. We approached the San Antonio, Texas embassy to add me as a family member. We again had to prove solvency with bank statements (6 months) and marriage license. We both now have the laminated visa our passports. Overall courteous and professional service provided by the consulate. We did make three trips this week to satisfy the requested documentation.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 18, 2013 at 6:38 pm

       Good update. Thanks!
       .,

       Reply
115. rubygeorgina says:

     January 19, 2013 at 10:25 am

     Wondering about having working papers attached to a Permanent Visa. My understanding is that like Inmigrado it is not necessary to have working papers BUT the other day my facilitator’s assistant mentioned to me that when I apply for Permanent status I also need to provide documentation about my existing working papers. What is your take on that?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 19, 2013 at 7:06 pm

       Hi Ruby,
       Good question.

       If you meet the personal Fiscal Solvency requirements for a Residente Permanente permit, then your current working status should not matter. If you are using income from your current work in Mexico to meet the Solvency requirements, maybe that’s why your “facilitator” thinks you may need to show them.

       There have been a growing number of reports from across Mexico (from Cancun & Merida, over to Chapala, San Miguel Allende, to Puerta Vallarta) describing “facilitators” who are making significant mistakes at INM with the immigrants they are trying to help, including lots of bad and uninformed advice. The same issue is happening for a number of so-called “immigration” attorneys, as they also have not learned the specific requirements of the 2011 INM law and the Nov 2012 Lineamientos. Neither “facilitators” nor attorneys are required to study the new Immigration Law before giving advice, nor do they pass any competency tests on the 2011 Law, and there are no qualifications required before they start to offer these services. Many “facilitators” and lawyers clearly have not even read the new law or they have ignored what they read. We have personally seen where these untrained Do-It-Yourself “facilitators” and lawyers have been adding requirements that are neither in the law nor required by their local INM office.

       I would probe a bit by questioning your “facilitator” as to the specific legal citations in the Law or the Lineamientos that describe this unusual requirement. You are correct that just like the old Inmigrado, the Residente Permanente automatically grants the holder the right to work in Mexico. I have read the INM statutes on these areas roughly 20 times, and there is nothing relating to your “facilitator’s” request.

       It is possible that your local INM office asks for this, but there really should be NO HARM in not submitting them… and waiting to see if your INM office actually asks for them. If they require them, then submit the documents.

       Hint: None of the reports we have read from Residente Permanente applicants who currently have Lucrativo status, have mentioned this issue.
       steve

       Reply
116. rubygeorgina says:

     January 20, 2013 at 8:19 am

     Thanks, Steve… that’s pretty much what I thought. Good advice about not submitting anything that is not asked for. And yes… I’ve chatted with several facilitators in our area who really have not yet come up to speed with the new regulations.

     Reply
117. Lynn Z says:

     January 22, 2013 at 12:46 pm

     I went to renew my FM3 January 7, 2013 and was one day late for my expiration. I now have a temporary letter that reads I must return in 60 days to finish the FM3 application. How long after I return to Mexico will the one year card be ready for pick-up? I was told that I had 55 days after expiration date to re new, not with the new laws. Becareful, I had all documents for the permanent card and was not able to get it.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 22, 2013 at 6:35 pm

       Hi Lynn,
       You are exactly correct about not allowing your current INM permit to expire. The opportunity to get Residente Permanente can depend on having 4 unbroken years of prior INM permits, with no fines nor penalties. By allowing your old permit to expire, you surrendered the chance to change to a Permanent Residency card.

       Related Notes for Readers: If your INM permit expires on a weekend or holiday, it is your responsibility to go in early to start the application process before the expiration date. If you also have a foreign plated car with a temporary import permit, then you really should start the process 30 days early (30 days before the expiration date), because Aduana can confiscate any deposit, if you do not notify them of your new INM permit expiration date within 15 days of this year’s expiration date. Since the application process is taking extra time, some folks may lose their TIP deposits. ???

       Typical applications are taking 2 – 3 weeks to process the application, which leads to local INM office approval, after which they call you in to be fingerprinted. The fingerprints and approved application are then sent to Distrito Federal to have a Residency card printed and laminated. There has been a back-log of cards to be produced by the DF office, so that step is taking another 2 weeks to 1 month. This means the whole process might be completed in 4-5 weeks, but can take up to 2 months for people applying now.
       steve

       Reply
       • Lynn Z says:

         January 23, 2013 at 11:54 am

         Because my card had expired I lost ALL rights to a permanent card or just this renewal? What happens at this point if I do not renew the FM3 and let it go? It’s pretty impossible for me to be in Mexico for a month at a time.
       • yucalandia says:

         January 23, 2013 at 1:38 pm

         Hi Lynn,
         Correct, you may have lost your opportunity to be approved for a Permanent Residency card (this year?). Every person with an FM3 or FM2 has a right to apply for Residente Permanente.

         The local INM offices have the right to follow any one of these courses of action:
         ~ If you have either an annual Average Monthly Balance of at least $1,619,000 pesos … or .. exactly $32,380 pesos a month of regular pension deposits for one Residente Permanente, then your local office may approve your Permanent Residency application immediately.
         ~ Your local office can consider less than 4 past unbroken/continuous years of FM2 or FM3 to grant the applicant Permanent Residency.
         ~ Your local office can say that you have enough monthly income and/or a large enough annual average savings account/investment account balance, but STILL require you to do 1 or 2 years on a Residente Temporal.
         ~ If you are completing either 4 years or 5 years on your current FM2 or FM3, your local office can tell you that you must wait until that year’s permit expires and then apply for Residente Permanente within 6 months.
         ***
         ~ By the end of January, the INM is supposed to publish the new rules for the “Points System”, where applicants for Permanent Residency do not have to fully meet any of the requirements listed above, but that the local INM office can approve the applicant for partially meeting a combination of the individual requirements, or if the applicant offers some key service to Mexico (like being a productive scientist), owning property in Mexico, etc. Some INM offices are already using their own in-house version of the “Points System” by approving applicants who own some property, have some monthly income, and have some annual average savings – with no single value meeting the specified criteria.

         Clear as mud? Let’s hope this all sorts out into a single coherent set of rules during the coming year, with minimal variations between offices. There currently are wide variations in the applications being accepted for Permanent Residency by individual INM offices.

         Check with your own office,
         steve
118. Terri says:

     January 23, 2013 at 12:53 pm

     This last post raises questions for me? Why would someone who doesn’t spend most of their time in Mexico want to be a permanent resident? For that matter are there any rules about how much time you must to spend in Mexico in order to qualify for permanent residency?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 23, 2013 at 1:14 pm

       Terri,
       Good Questions.

       ~ Regular visitors to Mexico can save $1,000’s of dollars over the years in various fees, and annual INM permit renewal costs.
       ~ Residente Permanente card holders can work and run businesses, getting income while here.
       ~ Residente Permanente is the path to Naturalized Citizenship, which can save many gringos $10,000’s of dollars in Fideicomiso savings.
       ~ Residente Permanente can allow some gringos to sell their homes using the Homeowner’s Exemption, avoiding paying 25% tax on the whole sale price or avoiding paying 28% tax on the net gain.
       ~ Residente Permanente card holders do not have to leave Mexico every 6 months like Visitor permits.
       ~ Residente Permanente do not have to return to do annual renewals like Residente Temporal card holders.
       ~ Residente Temporal holders must convert over to Residente Permanente anyway,
       after having their temporary permit for 4 years (including prior FM2 or FM3 years). Alternately, to avoid having to go to Residente Permanente, Residente Temporal holders may be able to abandon/surrender their existing cards, leave Mexico, go to a Mexican Consulate in their home country, apply for a new Residente Temporal at the Consulate, wait for that approval , and then go back to Mexico and re-file for a fresh Residente Temporal… which seems like a lot of hassles to just keep a US or Canadian car.

       but… to each his own,
       steve

       Reply
     • Lynn Z says:

       January 23, 2013 at 1:16 pm

       Simple Terri, I am not retired as of yet and still run my business full time, when I can be in Mexico I am, trying to get ahead of all the new laws before they change it and make it impossible to be permanent resident. I would love to be there full time soon!

       Reply
119. Merlenna says:

     January 23, 2013 at 8:56 pm

     We went to Austin, Texas Embassy.
     Thanks for the heads up.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       January 24, 2013 at 8:54 am

       Thanks for the further reply. This makes it clear that, so far, this is an Austin-only requirement. There are no other reports from other Mexican Consulates in the USA, Canada, or Europe who are asking for the additional requirement of copies of tax returns. The INM law and the Lineamientos make it clear that only bank statements, investment account statements, or pension statements are needed.

       Again, we will note that the Consulates are part of SRE (the foreign service), and they are not part of INM. As such, they do not seem to always follow INM / SEGOB’s rules or laws on immigration. This may be a training issue, or it may be due to some local Consul’s pecadillos, or this Austin-only addition may be due to simple misunderstandings / misinterpretations of the rules. If this is important to you, (and if you meet INM’s actual official personal Fiscal Solvency requirements), I would strongly consider printing out the specific Article and Section from the official Lineamientos describing the current official rules on income/savings/deposits/pension distributions/SSI income requirements for Residency ~ and give a copy of the official rules for personal Fiscal Solvency to your Austin Consulate. e.g. There are 2 other Consulates who were previously unaware of the actual rules, who were making up their own rules, and when shown the actual rules, both flipped their policies to fit INM rules.

       The specific Article numbers, Section numbers, and web links to the Lineamientos are listed in the article above.
       steve

       Reply
     • Jerry Barker says:

       January 24, 2013 at 6:36 pm

       San Antonio wants bank statements only.

       Reply
120. Nicole says:

     February 4, 2013 at 7:19 pm

     Sorry. I thought I was quoting one of the experts on this site. The information is very helpful – the best I have seen, and I am grateful for it.

     Reply
121. Nicole says:

     February 4, 2013 at 8:16 pm

     Having reread the opening article (including financial requirements section), I have more questions. As background, I had gotten everything together I needed to apply for a first-time, temporary no-inmigrante visa, months ago, before the regulations changed. However, when I returned to the INM office in Ensenada to apply (having been there 4 times previously with questions, etc.), I was told I had everything I needed – EXCEPT that I lacked a Spanish translation of my financial statements, which were over 100 pages long. I put off the time-consuming task of translating my financial statements until after the regulations had changed (had I only known what would follow!). About a week after the regulations had changed, I returned to INM to ask if I could not possibly just translate the 6 pages that showed one (of a few) accounts containing funds sufficient to qualify me for the visa. She said “yes,” that would suffice. She looked at my documentation and said all I needed to do was to return to INM with it and the 6 translated pages. I was thrilled. I returned to INM 2 days later with what I’d been told I’d need. This time, the representative (another woman) looked over my documents and said, “sorry, we don’t do that here anymore. You need to go to San Diego. And they won’t like your financial documentation.” I believe that was my 6th visit to INM.

     Since then, I have been researching, again, what I will need to apply for a visa – at the Consulate in San Diego. Until I found your site today, I had thought I could ONLY get a temporary residency visa (“TRV”); I’d read that a permanent residency visa (“PRV”) would not be issued until one had resided here legally for four years. So all of my research was related to the TRV.

     Assuming a PRV really can be issued to a first-time applicant, I am eligible to apply for one. I have read your description of “advantages and disadvantages” of TRVs vs. PRVs and did not note ANY disadvantage of applying for a PRV. My question is: IIs that the case; is there any reason NOT to apply for the TRV? (I did note posts expressing concerns about those with PRVs importing/keeping foreign-plated cars here, and possibly some tax issues (?), and I gather that these are open questions, at the moment.)

     Thank you again.

     Nicole

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 4, 2013 at 9:22 pm

       Hi Nicole,
       It’s good that you read things and understand them better.

       First, a minor point: There is NO such thing as a Temporary Residency “Visa”. A visa is a specific legal permission document, as a special sticker placed in the passport, for a foreigner to enter Mexico. Americans are NOT required to have visas to enter Mexico. INM instead issues a permit in the form of a card called a Tarjeta de Residente Temporal (Temporary Resident Card) to allow foreigners to stay in Mexico. I make this point, because you do not want to request a “residency visa” from the Consulate – you want to make an application for “residence”. The TRV and PRV terms are faulty, and generally should not be used when talking with INM, since they cause unnecessary confusion – because people from many non-treaty countries must actually request actual visas before being allowed into Mexico, while US and Canadian citizens can enter Mexico with just their passports.

       Second: The Mexican Consulate in San Diego may or may not approve you to apply for a Permanent Residency card. If they do give you their preliminary approval, then the Consulate will put a special “Visitante Visa” in your passport, (an actual temporary visa), that allows you to enter Mexico for the purpose of applying for residency, and you use that special visa to then go apply at your local INM office for your actual Residency permit (Tarjeta de Residencia = Residency Card).

       Third: Even if the Consulate approves you to enter Mexico to apply for a Permanent Residency card, your local INM office has the discretion to deny your request, as the local INM offices are given wide latitude in what applications they accept – and they can add additional requirements not specified in the law.

       Both the Consulate and your local INM office may approve you for a Residente Permanente permit/card. They have legal right to accept it, but they are not required to. ~ If they do, GREAT ! ~ They may also tell you that you have to complete 1 or 2 years on a Residente Temporal permit first. It may help if you copy the pertinent sections of the Lineamientos in Spanish to show the Consular personnel, describing the actual INM requirements. Since the Consular employees are SRE (foreign service) personnel (not SEGOB nor INM employees), they often do not know the INM Lineamientos.

       Further, since we do not know the particular details of your personal situation, we cannot hazard a guess as to whether you qualify. We also have no reports from readers about how the Mexican Consulate in San Diego is handling things – nor any reports from how Ensenada’s INM office is handling things.

       Re your financial statements: Did you highlight or circle the key items of beginning and ending statement dates, deposits, beginning and ending account balances – ~ identifying each with handwritten Spanish translations of the key terms ~ – ? We have described these terms in our other articles describing what to highlight, i.e.:
       ~ Beginning and Ending Dates on each Statement (Fecha de Inicio, Fecha de Termino, or Periodo de Actividades)
       ~ Beginning and Ending Balances (Saldos)
       ~ Each Individual Deposit (Deposito / Abono) and circle the Column Header Title for Deposits.
       ~ Account Owner (Titular de Cuenta or “Cliente”)
       ~ Account Number (Numero de Cuenta)

       We have found that INM offices accept bank or retirement account statements in English when they have had the key terms translated and highlighted.

       Hopefully, if you ask for the right things, provide the right documentation, then you will get a good outcome.

       Come back and give us a shout about how it all turns out.
       All the Best,
       steve

       Reply
122. Nicole says:

     February 4, 2013 at 9:49 pm

     Thanks, Steve. Well, I DID do much of what you suggested, when preparing to apply in Ensenada. The one thing I HOPE I am right about, now, is that when I provide my financial statements (and I know they must be complete – not just reflect one account) – to the Consulate in San Diego, I will NOT have to include translations of them. (I have communicated with someone who recently applied there, and he said he did not have to provide translations. Come to think of it, he also said (a) he had applied directly for permanent residency, without having lived here, and that was granted to him and his family, and now that I see that it is possible to apply directly, I “get it, and (b) he did not need a police report. He moved to Baja Sur, where I believe he was granted permanent residency, but of course, that is not where I will have to apply.)

     But my main question was meant to be: IF I can apply for/obtain permanent residency, is there any disadvantage in doing this as opposed to applying for temporary residency?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 4, 2013 at 9:58 pm

       Perfect ! Getting the police certification that you have no criminal record can be a pain, so, it is good that San Diego is not requiring it.
       As answered in the other post, other than the possible TIP vehicle issue, there really is no problem with getting a Residente Permanente card. steve

       Reply
123. Nicole says:

     February 4, 2013 at 9:51 pm

     To clarify: Is there any disadvantage to being GRANTED permanent residency, as opposed to being granted temporary residency?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 4, 2013 at 9:55 pm

       Except for the possible hassles with keeping a Temporarily Imported foreign plated car for more than a year here in Mexico, I do not see any problems with getting permanent residency. People who go for Temporary Residency are forced to go to Permanent Residency, anyway, when their total number of current FM2/FM3 years +Residente Temporal years add up to 4.
       All the best, steve

       Reply
124. Maggie says:

     February 4, 2013 at 11:06 pm

     Hi Steve, I posted some questions here late last year when our (my husband & I) FM2’s were about to expire. We applied for renewal prior to expiry & this renewal on November 27th so it came under new rules. We had a FM2 for one year as we were granted that immediately on moving to Mexico in 2011.
     We (possibly foolishly) trusted a local visa “advisor” with our application & were granted a “Residente Temporal”. Our preference was a Permanent residency & we had sufficient joint income for this. On application our “advisor” told us he did not know which vis (Temporary or Permanent) we would get….just apply & we would see…however he told us straight off how much we needed to pay….which I found to be unusual on the day as I was aware that fees were different for both. But of course we trusted him & our application was processed.
     We were granted “Residente Temporal” & went & had our fingerprints taken & completed paperwork as we assumed that this was the Visa we had been granted. We now wonder if in fact our “advisor” knew what she was doing & applied for the Temporary visa straight off.
     We are waiting since mid December for our ID cards…which I understand is not unusual with the backlog.
     We now find ourselves in a position where it is VERY IMPORTANT (due to personal circumstances) that we get Permenant residency & not Temporary.
     My questions are:
     1) Do you know if, with 1 year of residency with a FM2, we may apply for Permanent Residency….as we DO have the stated income levels.
     2) If the answer the the above question is Yes, at this late point..when we are awaiting ID cards for Residente Temporal…can we apply for this to be changed / reassessed as a Permanent visa application??
     3) Can paperwork that was submitted as part of a visa application be requested to be returned…or re-used if we are now applying for permanent residency.

     Your help would be very much appreciated.
     Maggie

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 5, 2013 at 12:28 pm

       Hi Maggie,
       Your situation is unusual, and is not specifically covered by the 2011 INM Law, nor the 2012 Reglamento, nor the 2012 Lineamientos.

       Since any changes are all controlled by your local INM office, you need to go see them and explain your situation. They may allow you to abandon your current application, abandon your current payment, and start over with a fresh application for a Residente Permanente Tarjeta de Residencia . Does your local INM office actually say that you qualify for Residente Permanente? I would not abandon your current Residente Temporal application, unless your local INM office says that you do qualify for Residente Permanente .

       If can prove that you have the required levels of income, then your local INM office does have the option to approve you for a Residente Permanente card. They are not required to approve you, because individual INM offices are given discretion and broad latitude in approving applications.

       If you abandon your current Residente Temporal card application, they may allow you to use the same documentation – but that is up to them.

       Come back and tell us which INM office your are working with, and how it worked out,
       steve

       Reply
125. Iqbal Muktadir says:

     February 4, 2013 at 11:37 pm

     Is there a (any) way to convert my FMM visa to FM3 visa while I am staying rightnow in Mexico with FMM Visitante’ visa.

     Please let me know ASAP.

     MUKTADIR
     C/O, Jaacob Cuivas.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 5, 2013 at 12:19 pm

       Dear Iqbal,
       There is no way for typical foreigners in Mexico to convert from FMM visitor’s permits to Residency permits.

       If you have a family member who is Mexican, then you can apply here in Mexico. If you are legally married to a Mexican, then you can apply here. If you are a political refugee or other refugee, fleeing persecution, then you may be allowed to apply here.

       If you do not fit one of the special categories, then under the INM law, as published in May 2011, then you must leave Mexico to apply for residency at a Mexican Consulate in a country where you have legal residency.
       steve

       Reply
126. Patricia Niles says:

     February 5, 2013 at 11:34 am

     Could anyone give me information on capital gains tax cost for the sale of our house, we currently have FM2’s and are in the process of applying for Permanent Residency

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 5, 2013 at 1:19 pm

       Hi Patricia,
       The rules on determining taxes on the gains on Mexican property are somewhat complex.

       Read our long and detailed article on this at: Capital Gains Taxes on Mexican Properties .

       In short form: If your Notario approves you for the Homeowners Exemption, then you pay no taxes, but you must meet multiple legal requirements to qualify for this exemption. If your Notario will not approve you for the Homeowners Exemption, then you either pay taxes of 25% of the total sale price … or 28% taxes on the adjusted basis (deducting out the original sale price, plus various other deductions/adjustments, and possibly deducting depreciation).

       It really all does come down to how your Notario structured your purchase, and on whether your Notario decides to approve you for the tax exemption.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
127. Iqbal Muktadir says:

     February 5, 2013 at 4:48 pm

     I am a graduate Electrical & Electronics Engineer having around 7 years Overseas experience, If I get any job offer here from Mexican company, then should I be eligible to convert my FMM status to a FM3 visa status, If I go through a Lawer, then is it possible to do tha same? Please let me know ASAP. Thanks for your cooperation.

     Regards,
     Muktadir
     C/O, Jaqoob Cuivas

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 6, 2013 at 12:18 pm

       Iqbal,
       Every thing I read in the 450 pages of the 2011 INM Law, the 2012 Reglamento, and the 2012 Lineamientos had zero options for professionals to convert from a Visitor Permit (FMM) over to a Residency Permit while inside Mexico. Maybe you have a lawyer who can make a “special payment” to get around the law and regulations, or create some special work-around, but I find no legal options, other than those I mentioned in the previous reply. Is it really impossible to follow the rules, and go to a country where you have valid residency to make the application.

       Further, INM regulations describe approval of Residency permits for people who already have jobs or firm job offers, have a letter to prove the job, and have documentation that the company providing the job is a real company. If you do not already have such current proofs of a real job from a real company, then INM will likely not approve you for a Temporary residency permit to work in Mexico, until the INM publishes its Points System.

       As an alternative: If you already qualify for Residente Permanente based on the rules listed in the article above, then apply for Permanent Residency (at a Mexicna Consulate), which allows you to work.
       steve

       Reply
128. Chad says:

     February 7, 2013 at 8:08 am

     Hi Steve,

     I see so much chatter about retirees and pensions to show proof of income. (As I do believe this is the norm.) I am definetely under retiree age and It is my understanding that if I work from Mexico, but receive my financial backing from the U.S. and the deposits are in the U.S. I can still apply for permanent residency, correct (or temporary at that)? Since I am really ‘remunerado’, but not on a Mexican salary is this OK? No work visa complications? Or are they really looking for a guaranteed pension or social security deposit? This may seem like a silly question, but after perusing so much information my head begins to hurt. I truly appreciate your dedication and expertise that you offer on this site. You and your site have been a life saver. Please keep up the good work. We all look up to you!
     Chad

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 7, 2013 at 9:04 am

       Hi Chad,
       First: Proving personal fiscal solvency may or may not routinely require providing financial documents. Consulates definitely require the documents for new applicants. For people with FM2s or FM3, some INM offices routinely require documentation, while many other INM offices do not ask for documentation. At the offices that do not routinely require documentation, if the INM agent thinks the application or applicant looks suspecicious, they do ask for documentation.

       Second: Check out: Financial Independence (Savings or Income) Requirements for Permanent Residency / Residente Permanente Applicants . Article 44 of the Lineamientos clearly identifies monthly income (from either work or pensions) deposits can be sufficient to prove personal financial solvency for Residente Permanente applicants. Article 41 provides the similar income descriptions for Residente Temporal applicants.

       Third: Check out our article on working in Mexico while being paid in another country: https://yucalandia.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/income-tax-liabilities-in-mexico/ Income Tax Liabilities in Mexico . Basically, the last word we got from an INM supervisor is that you do NOT register as a working (lucrativo) status, even for the temporary residents. Also, under the new law, if you get a Residente Permanente card, you are authorized to work here… So, there are no visa / permit issues around you working here, being paid in another country. You might note that Hacienda may believe that you could owe tax in Mexico on such income, but Hacienda credits your US tax payments as a deduction from any taxes owed in Mexico.

       Finally, thank you for the kind words: ~ It has been fun ! ~ Helping people hack through the dense thickets of the changing and very complex regulations fits with my enjoyment of learning and teaching university Chemisty and learning and teaching US EPA Environmental Regulations. I actually enjoy culling-through and distilling-down nearly 500 pages of Spanish legalese and Govt.-speak down to a handful of summaries. And yes, it does take a lot of work to keep the content accurate and current.
       THANKS !
       steve

       Reply
129. Maggie says:

     February 7, 2013 at 2:44 pm

     Hi Steve, thank you (again) for your response to my query.
     We have spoken to another advisor about changing from a FM2 (which we had for one year) to Permanent Visa & she has again said “No, you need to have 4 years with a FM2”
     Therefore……My husband & I are very confused about the “Qualificantions for Permanent Residency”. I have been doing alot of reading of your very helpful website & the attached links.
     If I might please ask for clarification of one point…
     Under your section “Additional information on how the new categories line up with parts of the old categories:” you quote:
     On the issue of “Permanente Residente” / old “Inmigrado”, the new law’s Transitorio section reads:After Article 162: “Transitorios, Sexto: VI. Los extranjeros que hayan obtenido la calidad migratoria de inmigrado, se equipararán al Residente permanente. “
     This translates to:
     ” VI. Foreigners who have obtained the immigration status of “inmigrado”, are deemed equivalent to Permanent Resident status. “
     However on one of your links – by Solomon Freimuth – New Mexican Immigration Law comes into effect in November 2011 he states:
     “People who currently hold FM3′s and FM2′s and who do not fall into any of the categories allowed for Permanent Residency will be eligible at the time of renewal for Temporary Residency.”

     Our previous FM2 was a “Inmigrante – Rentista” & we are applying in Rosarito office

     Is there any way we can get absolute clarification? Or is it on a case by case basis?
     We DO have the income level required but DO NOT meet any of the other requirements for Permanent visa. We had been been advised when we first applied & successfully obtained our FM2 in 2011 that we were “permanent” residents.
     Also….
     If we do not qualify – and need to just accept our new “Temporale Residente” visa – do we then need to wait 3 years before we get Permanent residency?? (i.e 1 year of FM2 & 3 years of Temporary visa”??
     Thanks as always
     Maggie

     .

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 7, 2013 at 3:08 pm

       Hi Maggie,
       You wrote: “We have spoken to another advisor about changing from a FM2 (which we had for one year) to Permanent Visa & she has again said “No, you need to have 4 years with a FM2″

       This is simply not correct on several levels:
       1. You can get a Residente Permanente immediately if a.) you meet one of the fiscal solvency requirements AND b.) your local INM is willing to approve you based on this part of the INM Law and Lineamientos. Some INM offices are granting Residente Permanente with anywhere between 0 – 4 years completed on some combination of FM2/Residente Temporal or FM3/Residente Temporal years. Some offices are requiring just zero or 1 total year, others require 2 total years, etc…

       2. You definitely qualify for Residente Permanente in just 3 more years of Residente Temporal (as 4 years total completed on your current INM permit with no breaks). (So you definitely do NOT have to complete 4 years on an FM2 – Inmigrante permit.)

       Is there any way we can get absolute clarification? Or is it on a case by case basis?
       We DO have the income level required but DO NOT meet any of the other requirements for Permanent visa. We had been been advised when we first applied & successfully obtained our FM2 in 2011 that we were “permanent” residents.

       As described in Item 1, if your local INM office follows the Lineamientos, then you qualify now.
       Your local office also has the latitude to arbitrarily add a requirement you to complete another year, or possibly up to 3 more years on a Temporary Residency card. It is their discretion. I suggest you give them all the details of your situation (including income or pension deposits, savings, and Mexican property ownership) and find out what they decide.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
130. Suzanne says:

     February 7, 2013 at 3:15 pm

     Hi all,

     I am in a sort of specific situation and I hope that someone can help me… I’m a 28 year old medical doctor from the Netherlands with a Mexican partner (however not married etc). I came to Mexico beginning on January on a tourist visa (FMM) to start the revalidation (homologacion) of my diploma’s, and will need to do a ‘servicio social’ to be able to registrar as a physician in Mexico. I have been told though at the Secretaria de Educacion that to revalidate my diploma I need proof of an ‘estancia legal en el pais’ that is not the FMM. Therefore I want to apply for a Residente Temporal visa, based on the Solvencia Economica, as I don’t qualify for any of the other requirements (Unidad Familiar, Inversionista, Investigacion Scientifica, Oferta de Empleo..). The Mexican embassy in the Netherlands however tells my that you can only base your application on the Solvencia Economica if you are a pensioner (rentista), which I’m obviously not! They tell me my only option is to show a Carta de Invitacion, as my plan is to work in Mexico. To me this seems like a catch-22 situation: I will not be able to apply for a job until my diplomas are revalidated, which I need to be able to do a servicio social, which I need for registration as a doctor. But to start the revalidation (and I guess to be allowed to do a servicio social) I need to have a Residente Temporal visa!
     Is it true that the Solvencia Economica in the case of the application for the Residente Temporal visa only applies to pensioners? Is my only option therefore to get married? That seems a bit far-fetched…
     I would very much appreciate your thoughts on the matter!

     Suzanne Veldhuis

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 7, 2013 at 7:46 pm

       Hi Suzanne,
       “. The Mexican embassy in the Netherlands however tells my that you can only base your application on the Solvencia Economica if you are a pensioner (rentista), which I’m obviously not! ”

       This is just incorrect. I would take them a copy in Spanish of the specific article of the Lineamientos applying to the requisitos for qualifying for Residente Temporal. If you look above in this article, read the section on:

       Articulo 41 Requisitos
       2012 INM Lineamientos: http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5276967&fecha=08/11/2012
       Using Method of Monthly Deposits of Income or Pension Receipts: (Resident Temporal)
       ~ Have minimum pension or salary deposits of income that is the equivalent of four hundred days worth of the current minimum wage in the Federal District, for each of the previous six months – with original and copies of original bank statement for one Residente Temporal.

       Current 2013 DF general minimum wages of $64.76 MXN pesos per day, converted at the current exchange rate of 13.00 pesos to US dollars, for 400 days of wages:
       ~ About $2,000 USD (exactly $25,904 pesos) per month of regular Deposits ~ to qualify for Residente Temporal

       Specifically, in Spanish:
       Artículo 41. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, cambio de visitante por razones humanitarias a residente temporal.
       …
       Requisitos:
       1. Original y copia del pasaporte, del documento de identidad y viaje o del documento oficial que haya exhibido para obtener la condición de estancia de visitante por razones humanitarias;
       2. Comprobante del pago de derechos por la recepción y estudio de la solicitud de cambio de condición, de conformidad con lo previsto en la Ley Federal de Derechos;
       3. FMM o tarjeta de visitante, válida y vigente;
       4. Presentar los documentos que acrediten alguno de los siguientes supuestos:
       a) Oferta de empleo:
       i. Oferta en papel membretado emitida por una persona física o moral establecida formalmente en territorio nacional, en la que se indique la ocupación que pretende realizar la persona extranjera, temporalidad requerida, lugar de trabajo y los datos de la constancia de inscripción del empleador emitida por el Instituto.
       b) Solvencia económica:
       i. Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos doce meses; o
       ii. Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes equivalentes a cuatrocientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.”

       If you show them the bolded passage of Requisitos, Item 3, ii. : “ii. Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo… ” clearly states that deposits “con empleo” (from employment) qualify.

       If you copy this section, and show them the exact quote describing employment income FIRST (before pension income), then I think they will understand.
       All the Best,
       steve

       Did you also note?:
       “c) Carta de invitación:
       i. Original de la carta de una organización o de una institución pública o privada de reconocida probidad que invita a la persona extranjera a participar en alguna actividad no remunerada en territorio nacional. La carta deberá contener los siguientes datos:
       – Nombre completo del solicitante o interesado y nacionalidad.
       – Denominación o razón social de la organización.
       – Número de registro y objeto de la organización o institución privada.
       – Domicilio completo y datos de contacto de la organización o institución.
       – Información sobre la actividad que realizará o el proyecto en el que participará el extranjero. La actividad del extranjero deberá estar relacionada con los fines de la organización o institución que invita.
       – Duración estimada o fecha aproximada de terminación de la actividad que realizará.
       – La manifestación de la responsabilidad solidaria para la manutención del extranjero durante su estancia en México y de su retorno a su país de origen o de residencia.
       – Copia de una identificación oficial con firma de quien suscribe la carta invitación.
       ii. La solvencia para asumir responsabilidad solidaria por parte de la institución privada que invita deberá acreditarse mediante copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo vigente para el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos doce meses.
       Las instituciones públicas, instituciones de educativas o de investigación pertenecientes al Sistema Educativo Nacional o empresas que transfieren personal a la matriz, filial o subsidiaria en México, no requieren presentar solvencia económica.”

       Here is the full version
       Artículo 41. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, cambio de visitante por razones humanitarias a residente temporal.

       Caso en el que se presenta:

       Aplicable al titular de la condición de estancia de visitante por razones humanitarias que al término del proceso o de las causas que motivaron la autorización de dicha condición, desee residir en territorio nacional y acredite encontrarse en alguno de los supuestos señalados en el apartado de criterios de la presente ficha de trámite.
       Fundamento jurídico:

       Artículos 3, fracciones VI, XI, XXIX; 43, 52, fracciones V y VII; 53, 61, 77, 79, 126, 128, 130 y 131 de la Ley; 1 y 142 del Reglamento.
       Forma de presentación:

       Formato para solicitar trámite migratorio de estancia.
       Lugar donde se presenta:

       Oficinas de atención a trámites del Instituto.
       Monto de los derechos:

       El previsto en el artículo 9 de la Ley Federal de Derechos.
       Plazo máximo de resolución:

       20 días hábiles.
       Vigencia de la autorización:

       1, 2 o 3 años, de acuerdo con la petición del interesado, o en su caso, de acuerdo con la oferta de empleo.
       Excepciones al artículo 15-A de la LFPA:

       Se requiere original de todos los documentos que se señalan a continuación:

       Requisitos:
       1. Original y copia del pasaporte, del documento de identidad y viaje o del documento oficial que haya exhibido para obtener la condición de estancia de visitante por razones humanitarias;
       2. Comprobante del pago de derechos por la recepción y estudio de la solicitud de cambio de condición, de conformidad con lo previsto en la Ley Federal de Derechos;
       3. FMM o tarjeta de visitante, válida y vigente;
       4. Presentar los documentos que acrediten alguno de los siguientes supuestos:
       a) Oferta de empleo:
       i. Oferta en papel membretado emitida por una persona física o moral establecida formalmente en territorio nacional, en la que se indique la ocupación que pretende realizar la persona extranjera, temporalidad requerida, lugar de trabajo y los datos de la constancia de inscripción del empleador emitida por el Instituto.
       b) Solvencia económica:
       i. Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos doce meses; o
       ii. Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes equivalentes a cuatrocientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.
       c) Carta de invitación:
       i. Original de la carta de una organización o de una institución pública o privada de reconocida probidad que invita a la persona extranjera a participar en alguna actividad no remunerada en territorio nacional. La carta deberá contener los siguientes datos:
       – Nombre completo del solicitante o interesado y nacionalidad.
       – Denominación o razón social de la organización.
       – Número de registro y objeto de la organización o institución privada.
       – Domicilio completo y datos de contacto de la organización o institución.
       – Información sobre la actividad que realizará o el proyecto en el que participará el extranjero. La actividad del extranjero deberá estar relacionada con los fines de la organización o institución que invita.
       – Duración estimada o fecha aproximada de terminación de la actividad que realizará.
       – La manifestación de la responsabilidad solidaria para la manutención del extranjero durante su estancia en México y de su retorno a su país de origen o de residencia.
       – Copia de una identificación oficial con firma de quien suscribe la carta invitación.
       ii. La solvencia para asumir responsabilidad solidaria por parte de la institución privada que invita deberá acreditarse mediante copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo vigente para el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos doce meses.
       Las instituciones públicas, instituciones de educativas o de investigación pertenecientes al Sistema Educativo Nacional o empresas que transfieren personal a la matriz, filial o subsidiaria en México, no requieren presentar solvencia económica.
       iii. En caso de que la institución no asuma responsabilidad solidaria, la persona extranjera deberá presentar copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a diez mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos doce meses; o copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes equivalentes a doscientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos seis meses.
       iv. Los documentos con los que la persona extranjera acredite que cuenta con la experiencia, capacidad, habilidades o conocimientos necesarios para desarrollar la actividad para la cual es invitada.
       d) Bienes inmuebles en territorio nacional:
       i. Escritura pública en la que conste que el extranjero es propietario de bienes inmuebles o que adquiere derechos de fideicomisario, con un valor equivalente a cuarenta mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, original y copia.

       e) Inversionista
       i. Escritura o póliza de la persona moral mexicana otorgada ante fedatario público, o documento debidamente certificado por el órgano de administración o funcionario competente de éste, en el que conste que la persona extranjera participa en el capital social de dicha persona moral mexicana, y que el monto de la inversión efectivamente erogado para la participación de la persona extranjera en la persona moral mexicana sea equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, lo cual podrá acreditarse, enunciativa mas no limitativamente, mediante contrato de compraventa de acciones o partes sociales, contrato de transmisión de bienes o derechos en favor de la persona moral mexicana o documento expedido por esta última que acredite el monto aportado por concepto de la participación en el capital social;
       ii. Documento que acredite la titularidad de bienes muebles en favor de la persona moral extranjera, con valor equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal;
       iii. Documentación que acredite el desarrollo de las actividades económicas o empresariales en territorio nacional, lo cual podrá acreditarse, enunciativa mas no limitativamente, con contratos, órdenes de servicio, facturas, recibos, planes de negocio, licencias o permisos, y constancia expedida por el Instituto Mexicano del Seguro Social que acredite que la persona extranjera es empleador de al menos cinco trabajadores.

       Criterios de resolución:
       I. La autorización por oferta de empleo estará sujeta a las cuotas que establezca la Secretaría mediante acuerdo publicado en el Diario Oficial de la Federación, de conformidad con el Capítulo I del Título Sexto del Reglamento.
       II. El supuesto de inversionista se podrá autorizar a la persona extranjera que se encuentre en alguno de los siguientes casos:
       a) Que tenga participación en el capital social de sociedades mexicanas de conformidad con las leyes y demás disposiciones jurídicas aplicables, y que el valor de la inversión sea equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal;
       b) Que tenga bienes muebles o activos fijos utilizados para fines económicos o empresariales de conformidad con las leyes y demás disposiciones jurídicas aplicables, cuyo valor sea equivalente a veinte mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, o
       c) Que desarrolle actividades económicas o empresariales en territorio nacional de conformidad con las leyes y demás disposiciones jurídicas aplicables, que generen al menos cinco empleos formales.
       Información importante para el usuario:
       – En caso de resolución positiva, la persona extranjera deberá presentar los requisitos correspondientes, para la expedición de documento migratorio por autorización de condición de estancia en términos del artículo 33 de los presentes Lineamientos.
       – La persona extranjera que obtenga autorización de la condición de estancia de residente temporal tiene la obligación de comunicar al Instituto cualquier cambio de estado civil, cambio de nacionalidad por una distinta a la utilizada para ingresar al territorio nacional, o cambio de domicilio o de lugar de trabajo. La comunicación deberá realizarse dentro de los noventa días naturales posteriores a que ocurra dicho cambio.
       En caso de no cumplir con dicha obligación se hará acreedor a las sanciones previstas en el artículo 158 de la Ley.

       Reply
131. Lynn Z says:

     February 7, 2013 at 3:39 pm

     Hi Steve, Now that the holidays are long over and the new laws are up and running, do you know the wait time after finger printing in Nueva Vallarta for the actual card? Thanks for your time.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 7, 2013 at 7:20 pm

       Hi Lynn,
       The current backlog seems to take 2-3 weeks to mail your information, print the card in DF, and mail the new card back to your local INM office.
       steve

       Reply
132. Charles Thomas says:

     February 8, 2013 at 8:23 am

     We’re in the process of moving to Mexico from Belize. Thought your team might find this information useful:
     All visas for Mexico are processed only in Belize City (at the site of the original MX Embassy). Neither the MX Embassy in Belmopan nor the small consulate/MX Aide station in Corozal (near Chetumal border) offer this service.

     The Belize City office is open 9-12AM, first come, first served. Best to come midweek we were told and indeed on Thursday morning we were second in line at 8:30AM. It is located at the corner of Wilson St and Newtown Barracks (near Princess Hotel/Casino). Phone 501.223.0193 or 501.223.0194
     Email: embamexbze@btl.net or consular@embamex.bz

     In Belize City the clerk informed us that if we wished a Residente Temporal visa we had to START the process in MX and then return to Belize. Made no sense whatsoever but she had some documentation that stated same. We didn’t ask details so as not to confuse the issue and, as well, we are looking to make a permanent move.

     As I had requested Residente Permanente, she said that process indeed started at the consulate and so she accepted the application and took my supporting documentation*. Each applicant had to have a complete copy of all the same documents,except for the passport information which is unique to each applicant.

     After a few short minutes we were photographed and fingerprinted. The counsul was unavailable that day so we were advised that we will be informed when to show up for an interview and if any additional documentation is required.

     Ours is the first Residente Permanente case their office has handled so it should prove interesting though hopefully neither complicated nor terribly lengthy.

     Separately we asked about moving household goods. Apparently there is a permit necessary, subsequent to entry approval, that requires the equivalent of a pedimente(sp?), translated in Spanish, with associated fee of $295BZ or about US$150.

     So far, a relatively easy event. On my next trip I will inquire about the Residente Temporal to learn more about the issue of starting the process in MX. I’ll pass along my findings to you at that time.

     *Documentation Requested by MX Consulate in Belize (Note: None of these had to be translated to Spanish)
     Single passport size photo for each applicant
     Proof of Retirement Pension
     1 YR bank statements
     Marriage Certificate
     Color copies of Passport ID page and Permanent Residency Stamp
     Copy of lease agreement (we have a 4 yr lease contract in MX)
     Cheers,
     Charles

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 8, 2013 at 9:14 am

       Thanks for the dandy report,
       steve

       Reply
133. Ayman says:

     February 8, 2013 at 5:06 pm

     How much time & what’s the required procedurs to get the permenant residence for foreigners married to Mexican citizen

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 8, 2013 at 5:46 pm

       Ayman,
       As written above, if your marriage is legally recognized by a Registro Civil in Mexico, then you qualify to apply for a Residente Permanente card after completing 2 years of temporary residency as Residente Temporal or as an FM2, each with no breaks, no penalties, or no fines.

       Reply
134. Linda Leonard says:

     February 12, 2013 at 9:52 am

     We have a fidei comiso for our condo. We recently received our permanent resident status. We plan to apply (next year) to become naturalized citizens. How do we then get rid of our fidei comiso?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 12, 2013 at 11:18 am

       Hi Linda,
       After you receive approval from SRE, and are declared naturalized citiznes, then contact the bank who holds your fideicomiso. Hopefully, a formal letter describing your new situation, along with proof of citizenship can be processed without a Notary.
       steve

       Reply
135. The Boom says:

     February 13, 2013 at 7:11 am

     I am going to be working at a private university. They said to come in on a tourist and not sign my contract till getting in Mexico and then convert to the new version of the lucrativo.

     They said they will be taking me to the INM office and shepherding me through the process.

     However, they think I will probably need to leave Mexico for a “few days” to pick up the visa. The way they describe it is similar to what I had to do in China.

     Any sense if they are correct given the new laws and how long this could take, especially how long I may need to stay outside of the country while dealing with the final visa paperwork?

     Thanks

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 13, 2013 at 9:07 am

       The typical processing time is now about 4 to 6 weeks.

       Reply
       • The Boom says:

         February 14, 2013 at 9:42 pm

         Thanks. Any idea on how many days I would need to be outside of country during that period? The school said it would be just a few to deal with a Mexican Consulate in the US but it seems like everything takes far more time related to Mexico than it should.
       • yucalandia says:

         February 15, 2013 at 8:36 am

         Reports from applicants at various Consulates across the USA are saying 1 to 4 days. The longer periods seem to be triggered by Consular requests for more information / more documentation. Some Consulates are requiring police background checks, others not. Contact the one closest to your home, and find out how long they are taking, and what they documentation they are requiring.
         steve
136. The Boom says:

     February 13, 2013 at 7:13 am

     Addendum to my prior post…the university felt that it would be much easier to do it the way I described rather than start the process outside, especially since I’m in China. Although I have heard there is a way to start the process and enter Mexico with 60 days to wrap it up.

     Reply
137. The Boom says:

     February 15, 2013 at 8:59 pm

     on a side note…one thing I’ve always wondered…lots of retirees in Mexico yet Mexico taxes US social security which is tax free up to a certain level of income in the US. Plus Mexico has higher cap gains tax on 401ks. Do most retirees just grin and bear it because the overall cost of living is so much cheaper?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 16, 2013 at 8:30 am

       Boom,
       Do you have evidence that Mexico taxes US Social Security benefits?
       I know at least 25 couples who live here full time and receive social security benefits, and none/zero of them are charged any Mexican taxes.

       Do you have evidence that Mexico taxes the capital gains Americans realize on their 401K gains?
       Again, I know about 5 people who are clearly getting capital gains from 401Ks, and none of them are charged Mexican taxes.

       What is the source of your understandings on these things? Can you provide official text from the Mex. Gob. / SAT / Hacienda that shows this?

       or maybe we are all seriously confused ???
       steve

       Reply
       • Roger Peterson says:

         February 16, 2013 at 3:06 pm

         try the link below to clarify, fast forward in the text to 6.2 on page 18, although this document was prepared prior to the immigration law changes of May 2012, I would expect Deloitte to post an update for 2013

         Click to access dttl_tax_guide_2012_Mexico.pdf
138. The Boom says:

     February 16, 2013 at 7:25 pm

     I’ve read quite a few places on the web (e.g, http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/On-Retirement/2011/12/05/the-most-tax-friendly-places-to-retire-abroad)
     that Mexico taxes social security and other retirement funds but have never been able to confirm it. It is always good to keep in mind that you can read all kinds of nonsense on the web.

     Unfortunately, the Deloitte section is an example of the vagueness I find related to taxes in Mexico. In the Deloitte section it mentions Pension benefits are exempt up to 9 times the minimum wage for the region. Do pension benefits include social security? If so (I prefer to see things specifically stated), it does seems to cover you for up to 1800 per month USD in pension benefits which would cover most social security payments. However, to make it more complex, Mexico has a different minimum wage per job. The min for a reporter of a print publication is around 2x that of a poultry farm manager. What number do they use?

     Mexico taxes capital gains as the Deloitte doc notes. However, the Deloitte doc doesn’t specifically mention 401k’s. It also says that sales of shares can be tax exempt in some situations but doesn’t say what they are.

     Any clarity would help and I would love to find out conclusively that both are exempt.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 16, 2013 at 8:07 pm

       Interesting.

       I am left with more questions than answers.

       I would note that the Deloitte guidance document gives no precise meaning to the term “Resident”, when they use it. When asked by a government agent, I can point to at least 4 different valid legal definitions of Resident for my own personal position. Mexico does not (yet) legally consider me a “resident” as far as working and other rights. I have residency in one location as a property holder by US voting criteria. US Border Patrol and CIS have told me I am a resident of Mexico because I lived here for 6 months before my last flight back to the USA. The IRS assigns me yet a different form of residency. To qualify for the homeowners exemption from gains taxes: Hacienda/the ISR says I only qualify as a Mexican resident if that location is both my “fiscal residence” & the “main center of your professional activities” under Mexican law.

       The Deloitte document’s 6.2 section may refer to citizens of Mexico who also reside in Mexico vs. those citizens who do not reside in Mexico? and refer to Mexican pensions (not making it clear what pensions they refer to)? i.e. Other Mexican laws differentiate between international pensions and Mexican pensions. Again, I just don’t know enough to give advice, am left with questions.

       Re the Minimum Wage: All of the Mexican laws I have read that base some $$ threshold on what American’s refer to as the “minimum wage”, is actually written specifically as the “salario mínimo general” , a specific daily wage rate for each region, that is published every year. Read Article 123 of the Mexican Constitution for its definition.

       i.e. The current salario minimo general for D.F. is $64.76 pesos per day http://www.conasami.gob.mx/t_sal_mini_prof.html & http://www.conasami.gob.mx/pdf/tabla_salarios_minimos/2013/01_01_2013.pdf .
       steve

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         February 18, 2013 at 12:31 pm

         The 1993 Mexico-USA Tax Treaty has an interesting clause on the residency issue:
         “Article 4 Residence
         …
         2. Where by reason of the provisions of paragraph 1, an individual is a resident of both Contracting
         States, then his residence shall be determined as follows:
         a) he shall be deemed to be a resident of the State in which he has a permanent home
         available to him; if he has a permanent home available to him in both Contracting States, he shall
         be deemed to be a resident of the State with which his personal and economic relations are
         closer (center of vital interests);
         b) if the State in which he has his center of vital interests cannot be determined, or if he
         does not have a permanent home available to him in either State, he shall be deemed to be a
         resident of the State in which he has an habitual abode;
         c) if he has an habitual abode in both States or in neither of them, he shall be deemed to
         be a resident of the State of which he is a national; …”

         Does this give you a deeper understanding of just how legally inappropriate and vague Deloitte’s casual usage of “Resident” is ?

         Does this give you a stronger sense of the importance of my point about how I am assigned differing residency status-es by least 4 different Mexican and US entities, and that Mexico has NO SINGLE definition of residency for me, and that the USA has NO SINGLE definition of residency for me?

         The issue of residency really does depend on what situation you are addressing and what Govt. agency you are dealing with. IRS rules are different from CIS, are different from CBP , are different from State rules. The same thing applies in Mexico.
         steve
       • yucalandia says:

         February 18, 2013 at 1:52 pm

         Hey Boom,
         The non-precise authors at Deloitte and the summarists and editors at US News seem to have missed Article 19 of the 1993 Mexico USA Tax Treaty:
         ARTICLE 19
         Pensions, Annuities, Alimony, and Child Support
         1. Subject to the provisions of Article 20 (Government Service):
         a) pensions and other similar remuneration derived and beneficially owned by a resident
         of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment by that individual or another
         individual resident of the same Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State; and
         b) social security benefits and other public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a
         resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in
         the first-mentioned State.

         … simple….

         Me? I tend to only trust authors who provide proper sources, references, and citations for their broad pronouncements and conclusions.

         My apologies if some of this is rambling or poorly constructed, as I am worn*out from 5 days of not-sleeping ~ coughing/hacking/wheezingg ~ from a wicked cold that migrated into a heavy 2º bacterial lung infection & bronchitis, which has me taking prescription expectorants and broncho-dilators, leaving me ultra-spacey…
         steve
139. The Boom says:

     February 16, 2013 at 8:17 pm

     Do you know if they multiply that by 22 days (normal working days a month)? If so, then that only makes around the first 1K of US social security tax exempt. Even if they multiply it by 30 then it is less than 1400 exempt and that obviously fluctuates based on exchange rate.

     And I agree with you about the Deloitte docs vagueness on resident too. I find it really hard to nail all this down.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 17, 2013 at 8:01 am

       Boom,
       Your observation about Deloitte’s faulty reference to the daily minimum wage is good. Here’s an attempt to try to make sense of their vague advice. I have not read the new Labor Law, but the Constitution describes 6 work day weeks, not exceeding 8 hours per day. That translates to 52 weeks of 6 days (312 days) @ $64.76 per day, so, the annual minimum wage would work out to $20,205 pesos or $1,554 USD per year (at $13 : $1 ) for 2013. . Note that the old Labor Law required statutory 7 paid days off for official holidays, and the labor law also required a payment of an Aguinaldo payment equaling of at least 15 days paid off at Christmas time.**

       If Deloitte’s 9X formula for taxing is correct, that would translate to $13,988 USD a year, or $1,165 a month. If Deloitte’s advice were taken at face value, then more than half of retired US expats who have lived here on FM2s and FM3 would owe taxes… a conclusion that is simply not believable – since basically zero retired US expats pay Mexican income taxes.

       I personally would go with what actually happens on the ground, versus generic somewhat vague insights we can get from the Deloitte document or from the overly broad (not detailed) US News report.
       steve

       **The Aguinaldo represents an extra payment to you (as an employee) of (15/312)*100% = 4.8% . I mention this because you have asked to try to determine the precise payments you might receive as a teacher here. Had you figured in the additional five percent payment you would receive annually by working in Mexico?

       Reply
140. The Boom says:

     February 17, 2013 at 8:25 am

     Steve thank you for your analysis. My guess is this is a case where Mexican inefficiency benefits retirees and people should be paying more. If I’m correct, let’s hope they don’t get their bureaucratic acts together during our lifetimes.

     What have you heard about 401K withdrawals an cap gains? Do you know retirees paying on those or is that included in the zero retirees paying income taxes?

     Whether or not I get hit on my 401K withdrawals and other capital gains plays a huge part in my decision to work in Mexico and if so what the requirements would be for me to work. I also have to sort through whether type of visa plays a role too.

     Thanks

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 17, 2013 at 10:38 am

       Hey Boom,
       You are free to assume that it is Mexican Gob. inefficiency, but over a decade of real world evidence indicates “not”. I think reality says that a generic vague non-legal summary by a foreign accounting firm (Deloitte) is likely misleading on this point. If there were tax obligations for 10,000’s of very chatty gringo retirees that existed for 20 years or more, there would be at least isolated reports of Hacienda enforcing such rules.

       I think the complete absence of at least a decade of gringo internet-comments and zero comments in the gringo organizations I attend, and no press reports of gringos being prosecuted/pursued for the tax payments you propose, says that there is likely nothing in the ISR that requires retired gringos living in Mexico to pay taxes on the pension and 401K income they receive from foreign countries.

       Answering your question: As I wrote in a previous reply to you, I know at least 5 retired US citizens here in Mexico who have made substantial withdrawals from their 401Ks, and their accountants have said nothing about owing taxes in Mexico.
       Enjoy the weekend,
       steve

       Reply
       • yucalandia says:

         February 18, 2013 at 1:37 pm

         Reply UNDER CONSTRUCTION… please pop back later to see the final version

         Check out the 1993 Mexico US Tax Treaty http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/mexico.pdf

         ARTICLE 10
         Dividends
         1. Dividends paid by a company which is a resident of a Contracting State to a resident of the other
         Contracting State may be taxed in that other State.
         2. Such dividends may also be taxed in the Contracting State of which the company paying the
         dividends is a resident, and according to the laws of that State. However, if the beneficial owner of the
         dividends is a resident of the other Contracting State, except as provided in paragraph 3, the tax so
         charged shall not exceed:
         a) 5 percent of the gross amount of the dividend if the beneficial owner is a company
         which owns at least 10 percent of the voting stock of the company paying the dividends;
         b) 10 percent of the gross amount of the dividends in other cases.
         This paragraph shall not affect the taxation of the company in respect of the profits out of which the
         dividends are paid.
         3. For a period of five years from the date on which the provisions of this Article take effect, the
         rate of 15 percent will apply in place of the rate provided in subparagraph (b) of paragraph 2.
         4. The term “dividends” as used in this Article means income from shares or other rights, not being
         debt-claims, participating in profits, as well as income from other corporate rights which is subjected to
         the same taxation treatment as income from shares by the laws of the State of which the company
         making the distribution is a resident.
       • The Boom says:

         February 18, 2013 at 8:32 pm

         Steve, tanks for all the good information. I have to sift through it more closely but I get lost in all the contracting states. At first read social security seems only payable in the US or other nation where the expat is from. However, I have no idea if my 401K being in one state (US) and my residence being in another (Mexico) means I pay in Mexico or not. This provision makes it sound to me like I would owe taxes in Mexico and not the US, since I would be a resident of Mexico, which seems inaccurate. I’m also not clear if a 401k is considered “other similar remuneration”

         “pensions and other similar remuneration derived and beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment by that individual…shall be taxable only in that State;”
       • yucalandia says:

         February 18, 2013 at 10:53 pm

         Hi Boom,
         It would work well if you read our new article on US Taxes – 2012 – for Americans living in Mexico. (rather than this Immigration law article?) Tax Issues for Americans Living and Working in Mexico – A Redux for 2012

         This new article was spurred to document (add references) our answers to your questions, describing how you owe ZERO Mexican taxes on US Social Security or US Pension disbursements – regardless of where you receive the check.

         See the section on all the Articles of the US-Mexico Tax Convention (Treaty), focusing on the one describing how US SSI benefits are taxable only in the USA: Pension income and Social Security benefits .

         Just as in any legal document, you need to know who the defined parties are in the treaty. The opening articles of the treaty define the “States” as the two nations, the United States of Mexico and the USA. So, for US Social Security benefit payments: The “Contracting State” is not some US state that is being eroded by rising ocean levels or global warming, but instead it is the United States of America. For Mexico’s IMSS payments to her retirees, the “Contracting State” is the United States of Mexico. This means: IMSS benefits are taxable only by Mexico, and US SSI benefits are taxable only by the USA.
         Hang in there,
         steve
141. The Boom says:

     February 17, 2013 at 7:10 pm

     That is good to know that retirees aren’t paying in Mexico on their 401IKs. Do you know any expats still working for a Mexican company who have withdrawn on their 401Ks or had other cap gains worthy transactions who have not had to pay?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 17, 2013 at 7:40 pm

       None of them were working for a Mexican company.

       So far, I checked on the accountants we know, and they only speak Spanish.

       You might want to sign-on to Yolisto. Yolisto is almost universally populated by gringos who do not speak Spanish, so they must find professionals who speak English. You could also ask there for referrals to a US accountant who knows the US – Mexican Tax treaty and IRS rules for US citizens residing in Mexico.
       steve

       Reply
142. The Boom says:

     February 23, 2013 at 9:53 pm

     Steve, Have never been able to get in touch with a Mexican accountant, although referred to 4. Have read your information again and really appreciate the thought going into it, especially when you were sick.

     Still struggling with:
     1. not sure whether a 401K fits under dividends or annuities, pension or other similar…that makes the two issues next more confusing to me.

     2. if I read this right that means if I am a resident of Mexico then I am liable for tax on my US retirement accounts paid to be if I am a resident of Mexico. Correct? because of “except insofar as the dividends are paid to a resident of that state.”
     “A Contracting State may not impose any tax on dividends paid by a company which is not a
     resident of that State, except insofar as the dividends are paid to a resident of that State”

     3. still struggle to find any mention of an ira or other type of retirement account. seems to be the focus on pensions and annuities and their definition of annuities doesn’t cover an IRA for example unless that falls under “similar remuneration.”

     This section seems to not pertain also because, if I’m reading it right (and I could easily be reading it wrong), then this just relates to people who earned money in a state and are a resident of that same state so the other state can’t tax it. meaning, I’m guessing, anything a resident of Mexico earned in Mexico can’t be taxed in the US.

     ARTICLE 19
     Pensions, Annuities, Alimony, and Child Support
     1. Subject to the provisions of Article 20 (Government Service):
     a) pensions and other similar remuneration derived and beneficially owned by a resident
     of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment by that individual or another
     individual resident of the same Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State
     +++++++++++++++

     All kind of a mind bender for me I must admit.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 23, 2013 at 10:30 pm

       In my readings of the 1993 Tax Convention, I believe that since the exempted annuities and pensions are described as remuneration “in consideration of past employment” – then: Article 19 exclusions are intended to cover income from investments that are related to past employment (plans set up and operated by past employers). If your 401K was set up as part of compensating workers – in the form of employers matching employee income – then they would qualify. It is difficult for me to see how IRAs fit under Article 19 exemptions.

       Article 1 would seem to cover the IRA income – where Mexico must accept the exemptions, exceptions, credits, etc offered by the USA. Retirement accounts where you had no US tax exemptions or exceptions, and where they were not directly related to your work, would then have dividends or interest that would seem to be taxed as ordinary gains.

       I would be very cautious in describing yourself or characterizing yourself as a “resident of Mexico”. Really, as I said before, there are at least 4 different types of residency under the various US and Mexican laws. As I described in the article I wrote to address your questions, your type and levels of international tax liability HINGE on the issue of residency, as defined by the 1993 Tax Convention and the I.S.R.

       Finally, all of these items are described for education and entertainment purposes only, as we are not tax professionals. Readers should talk with their tax professionals on each and every one of their concerns to find out the real story. Hopefully, our perspectives can give you good starting points for productive discussions with your tax professionals.
       steve

       Reply
143. Mike Nault says:

     February 25, 2013 at 9:27 am

     Finally now have our Permanente cards. Am hearing there is a provision in the new law that a Permanente holder cannot be out of the country for more than 180 days or the status will be cancelled! Anything to this? can anyone quote the section of the law that says this?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 25, 2013 at 12:56 pm

       Hey Mike,
       Congrats on the new Permanente cards!

       There is nothing in the May 2011 INM law, and after 20 or so readings/reviews of the Lineamineto’s sections on Residente Permanente, there are no restrictions on how long you can be out of Mexico.

       Read Article 44 of the Lineamientos:
       Artículo 44. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, de residente temporal a residente permanente:

       ~ Vigencia de la autorización: Indefinida.
       1 año en caso de menores de 3 años de edad.
       4 años en caso de mayores de 3 años y menores de 18 años de edad.

       ~ Información importante para el usuario:
       – La persona extranjera en caso de resolución positiva, deberá presentar los requisitos correspondientes, para la expedición de documento migratorio por autorización de condición de estancia en términos del artículo 33 de los presentes Lineamientos.
       – La persona extranjera que cambie de residente temporal a residente permanente, deberá continuar informando cualquier cambio de estado civil, cambio de nacionalidad por una diversa a la cual ingresó, domicilio o lugar de trabajo de acuerdo a lo señalado en el artículo 63 de la Ley.
       En caso de no cumplir con dicha obligación se hará acreedor a las sanciones previstas en el artículo 158 de la Ley
       

       So, the official INM rules regarding Residente Permanente permits have NO restrictions on how long you can be out of Mexico.

       Maybe someone is flashing back to the old FM2 rules???
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
144. Pam says:

     February 25, 2013 at 2:02 pm

     New Question: We’re partway through the process of being granted our Residencia Permanente cards but they likely won’t be ready before we have to fly home to Canada to work; so we will need the temporary exit permit good for 60 days (at which point we’d have to come back to pick up cards). Is there any way we can have a representative pick up our cards and courier them to us, without our having to return?
     We have been given two answers so far: 1.) No, because we must return to Mexico within 60 days once we fly out with that permit. or 2.) Maybe, if we drive out of Mexico without applying for the exit permit, then it wouldn’t show as an exit and we could do that. If this is true, could we then simply return in six months to pick up our cards/finish the process?

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 25, 2013 at 2:43 pm

       Hi Pam,
       Good good questions.

       I understand that these are specific to your INM office, so you should contact them to see if they would approve you to authorize a POA for a representative to pick up your cards.

       I personally see a no problems with this proposal, as long as the courier gets the cards to you. Because INM cannot guarantee that you receive the cards, they may say “no”, on the chance that you would NOT have the cards in your possession when you re-enter Mexico. If you do not get the cards by courier: You cannot use a visitor’s permit to re-enter, as you would be penalized for having 2 INM permits (easily tracked by INM’s computer systems). You could try to re-enter on your letter, but the letter would be expired.

       Even if the courier works: The INM computer will show that you have have an open letter, but received your new INM Residency cards. Will the INM agent who checks your passports will find the open letter as a problem when they enter your passport #’s into the INM computer?

       I see no problems with the exit process: It is the return to Mexico that gets messy. You really do not want to get stuck when returning into Mexico… e.g. It is no fun paying fines for simultaneously having 2 authorized permits (the letter and the cards).

       If you can get INM to authorize your proposal, and they give you strong assurances of no problems returning, then it sounds like a good plan.

       Happy trails.
       steve

       Reply
       • pambarnsley says:

         February 25, 2013 at 3:04 pm

         Thanks, Steve. We’ll ask our INM agent again. Fingers crossed!
         Pam
145. Iqbal Muhammad Al Muktadir says:

     February 25, 2013 at 5:26 pm

     Hi, I am Engineer Iqbal Muktadir, I am in Mexico under 6 months multiple entries FMM tourist visa. My question is:- Can I become eligible to apply here US embassy for tourist or study or any types of visit visa? Is it possible to get USA visa & can travel & tour there for some days?
     Please let me know ASAP.
     Thank you for your Co-operation.
     Regards,
     Iqbal Muktadir

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 25, 2013 at 5:31 pm

       Hello Iqbal,
       Yes, you can apply at any US Consulate or the US Embassy for a visa to visit the USA.
       steve

       Reply
146. Iqbal Muktadir says:

     February 26, 2013 at 11:57 pm

     Thanks for your Information. But now question is: For how many days or months I can get the USA visa? Please can you tell me? Here in my position of FMM visa status, can I apply for work visa for USA in Mexico US Embassy or US Consulate? Should I be eligible to get work visa for USA in this condition of mine? Please let me know ASAP.
     Thank you again for anticipation of your kind Cooperation.
     Best Regards,
     Iqbal Muktadir

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       February 27, 2013 at 8:01 am

       Hello Iqbal,
       Yes you can apply for a work visa. I understand that the American Consulate in Juarez is the one that has the capabilities to handle these requests – as they also handle the requests for Permanent Residence, but you really should contact them.

       The length and type of your visa depends on their determinations of your personal data/qualifications.
       Contact them:
       http://ciudadjuarez.usconsulate.gov/
       U.S. Consulate General
       Paseo de la Victoria #3650
       Fracc. Partido Senecú
       Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua, Mexico C.P. 32543

       Hours
       Information Window hours: 7:30am – 1pm
       Interview hours 7:30 – 4:15

       Visa Information/Appointments
       For information on how to make or change an appointment to apply for an immigrant (resident) visa or to provide information on your visa case, contact our applicant service center at any of the numbers provided. You may also visit the main applicant service center website.
       Please use these steps for our non-immigrant visa application system.

       General Information & Non-Emergency American Citizen Services: (656) 227-3000
       steve

       Reply
147. ph1tx says:

     March 1, 2013 at 12:08 am

     Steve, I loved the quote Feb. 25 of Article 44 in Espanol . Do you have the part of Article 44 in Spanish for the requirements for Financial independence for Permanante Residente ? Or where can I find it ? Question : If you 12 months of bank statement shows an average balance of $10,000 ++ and usually a deposit of $ 3-5,000 be null as income if in Oct. I only deposited $204. and in Dec .only $1400 ? P. V. immigration is saying I need to show the deposits every MONTH.
     I also have Certificate of Deposit accounts at $95,000 each ( 2 of them ) or $190,000. The statements are trimestre /quarterly and my immigration guy ( my go between) said they would not accept them if they were not MONTHLY . I also, own my condo ,have elect. , fidicomiso, property tax and maint. fee reciepts all paid in full . What do you advise, Steve? THANK YOU!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 1, 2013 at 8:17 am

       Hi ph,
       “ Artículo 44. Ficha del trámite para cambio de condición de estancia en la modalidad, de residente temporal a residente permanente:”
       …
       “ Requisitos:
       1. Original y copia del pasaporte, documento de identidad y viaje o documento oficial que haya exhibido para obtener la condición de estancia de residente temporal;
       2. Tarjeta de residente temporal, válida y vigente;
       3. Comprobante del pago de derechos por la recepción y estudio de la solicitud de cambio de condición, de conformidad con lo establecido en la Ley Federal de Derechos;
       4. En caso de sistema de puntos, deberá presentar los documentos que acrediten los indicadores y puntaje mínimo requeridos conforme al acuerdo que al efecto se publique en el Diario Oficial de la Federación;

       5. En el caso de pensionados o jubilados deberán presentar:
       a) Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinticinco mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal durante los últimos doce meses, o
       b) Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con ingresos o pensión mensual libre de gravámenes equivalente a quinientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses, y

       6. En caso de que hayan transcurrido cuatro años desde que cuenta con permiso de residente temporal, deberá indicar expresamente en su solicitud de trámite que solicita el cambio por esta vía.”

       I highlighted the KEY PHRASE: con saldo promedio mensual … The key word is “promedio” = average. Now, if you can educate a Mexican INM clerk what an AVERAGE is – then you get what you want. Averages are the sum of the individual values, divided by the number of values. Averages are NOT the individual values…. So, in formal legal and mathematical terms, the individual values almost always vary above and below the Average value… Because the Average is the central value, there are almost always values below the Average… (except for the exotic case when all the values are the same…)

       ~ Note that the law does not stipulate either a minimum value nor does it say you must have the same amount every month – especially when looking at an account’s monthly balance. Point out that they are adding requirements that do not exist in the Ley de Immigración.

       These concepts can be difficult to explain to a typical Canadian or American, so, I wish you much luck in explaining it a Mexican clerk who may have almost no statistics education…

       Maybe also quote:
       “Promedio:”
       “Suma de todos los valores numéricos dividida entre el número de valores para obtener un número que pueda representar de la mejor manera a todos los valores del conjunto. El promedio de un grupo de números es el mismo que la media aritmética.

       Por ejemplo, el promedio de 6 números (3, 4, 2, 2, 5, 2) es
       (3 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 5 + 2) ÷ 6 = 3 ”

       Our link to the Lineamientos (to see Article 44) is at the end of this/our article in: Sources and References for the New INM Law and Rules

       Re your IMN agent not accepting your financial documents:
       I think you should make a letter in good Spanish explaining a quote of the law (focusing on the linchpin: “promedio“), explaining Average, and explaining the nature of the documents that are available (quarterly vs monthly), do your best to request and get copies of financial documents that show daily or monthly changes/transactions, translate key terms on each of the financial documents, and then have an INM supervisor review the letter and the documents.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
148. andrew says:

     March 1, 2013 at 1:00 pm

     Hi everyone , hope someone can help me out here?….. I am andrew from australia, married to a mexican for 5 years and we are settling in cancun now. I applied for temporary resident card in Jan 06 2013, and now it is 2nd march and still have’nt got my card. Te INM officials have said that my application has been approved but the card will come from mexico city, so it is out of their hands. but this is taking too long and was wondering if there could be a way to fasten the process or if there coud be any problem in the process which i could identify. all my papers were apostilled and were accepted without problem … I have given my fingerprints and photos already a month ago
     any sort of help regarding this is will be appreciated….
     Thanks…

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 1, 2013 at 4:55 pm

       Hi Andrew,
       Cancun INM office is notorious for being very very slow.

       If they have approved your application, then GREAT. All you have to do is wait.
       steve

       Reply
149. Marilyn Britton says:

     March 2, 2013 at 2:57 pm

     Great information here—wished I had read it in Nov!!! Awaiting tarjeta de Res. Permanente from DF. Initially in Nov. we were told the new tarjeta would allow us to keep our vehicle with US plates. I’m just discovering that that is incorrect.
     We drive from Merida to Indiana in the spring and return in the fall. Should one of us revoke the Tarj. de Res. Perm when we cross the border then just return with the vehicle in the fall and get a Visitante paper good for 180 days? According to IMN yesterday, we would have to do this at the border. Anyone have info on this, suggestions, or an opinion? The other option the IMN official gave me was to revoke Perm Res then apply for Temp when I get home. But, it would seem that I would be in the same position in four years.

     Thanks so much for your incredible work on this site and for your concern for all of us.
     Sincerely, Marilyn Britton

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 2, 2013 at 7:58 pm

       Hi Marilyn,
       Yes, you seem to understand things just fine.

       I can’t tell you what route to choose with your INM and Aduana permits. There really is zero/zip/nada for an official national Aduana policy on Residente Permanente cardholders with TIPs. No one knows what the ultimate disposition will be. Some Aduana offices like Queretaro are approving extensions of their TIP expiration dates for everyone (both Temporary and Permanente Residents), while Progreso Aduana and Puerta Vallarta Aduana are telling everyone with even Residente Temporal permits, that they must take their cars out of Mexico immediately… We just have to wait and see what Aduana DF ultimately decides – over-ruling all the variations of local policies used by local Aduana offices now.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
150. Marilyn Britton says:

     March 3, 2013 at 6:27 am

     Thanks Steve for your response. I wrote to the US Consulate in DF last night, I remember seeing a name and email address for a person connected to Aduana in someone’s blog. Please send any addresses you feel would be helpful to us in this situation. I urge everyone in this situation to write whomever so expediate this decision. We are definitely caught in a nightmare.

     Again, my appreciation for your work. Marilyn

     Reply
151. ph1tx says:

     March 3, 2013 at 12:19 pm

     Steve, Thank you again for ALL of your efforts. I was up until 5 a m the other night Re reading all of your posts and links, and Article 44 and 34 and the Spanish links, too. WOW ! You are terrific! Question: I am leaving on an extended 1/2 world tour for 65 days. I understand that if I don’t get my Residente Permanente card from DF before I leave I can get a letter to be OUT of Mex . for 60 days. What should I do since I will be out 65 and on a SHIP , until the last when I FLY from Singapore to Puerto Vallarta , Mex. Because of air schedules I have 1 overnight in Houston. Sould see my doctor for an ear ache? or what is your best suggestion. I can pick up my card ON that one NIGHT in Houston, because my friends here in PV can pick up the card and bring it to Houston , so it will be there when I get there, just before returning to PV.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 3, 2013 at 6:17 pm

       Hi Ph,
       You have a unique situation.

       Check with your INM office to see if you can authorize a legal representative (via a Power of Attorney) to receive your new Residente Permanente for you. If so, they could bring it to you in Houston. In no case would you use a Visitante permit to return into Mexico (because the computer flags you for having 2 visas, you get fines, and problems).

       If they do not let you authorize a rep to pick up your finished ID card, then find out what the penalty is for returning after 60 days. If you cannot handle the penalties (???), then you could abandon your Permanente Residency application, and start over??
       steve

       Reply
152. Chris says:

     March 5, 2013 at 4:47 pm

     Hi Steve,
     Just been reading through your website. I appreciate the great effort you have put in to help people like me!
     I wondered if you could help shed some light on my situation for me? I am a British Citizen (currently in London) waiting for my residency/work permit to be authorised by the INM. The visa application in Mexico is being handled by my company’s lawyers in Mexico D.F and all the information I have to go on is via El Seguimiento de Trámite. On 4/3/13, the status of my application changed to “presentarse en una oficina del inm”.
     I contacted INM by phone, the speaker advised that when that comes up, the checks have been completed, but then spoke to my company/Lawyer in Mexico this afternoon (5/3/13) who advised that wasn’t the case, and that I need to wait for “Enviado a SRE” for it to be completed.

     I just wanted to ask your thoughts on that, and how long one might be waiting for the application to be completed from this point? (Assuming my company’s Lawyer has passed on the relevant info and answered any questions they have).

     Thanks in advance Steve,

     From a very impatient Chris!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 5, 2013 at 7:22 pm

       Hi Chris,
       “the status of my application changed to “presentarse en una oficina del inm”.”

       This is good. It says that your application has been officially filed and accepted by the INM office.
       The company lawyer is correct, that you need to wait for the message telling you to come into the INM office.

       In the next step, they could ask you to come into the INM office to give them more information or documents. or They could tell you to come in to drop off fotos and get fingerprinted. This next notice should come in a week or 2. After you drop off fotos and get fingerprinted, figure another 2 weeks for them to send your information and papers in to Aduana DF, where they make the ID cards, and then they call you in to pickup the new ID card.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       Reply
       • Chris says:

         March 6, 2013 at 1:02 am

         Thanks Steve,
         This is where it gets a little hazy for me though. As I am not in Mexico, I have been advised that once “Enviado a SRE” appears on the online check, I then need to then make an appointment at the Mexican Consulate in London, from there it will take only 2 days for my permit to be ready/completed?
         I assume its there that I will have to give photos and finger prints maybe, and it seems these processes in the UK consulate are much faster to that of INM.
         I was really just trying to get a better idea of how much longer (approx) I would have to wait for the instruction to go to the UK consulate to complete the remainder of the process.

         Aboomerabroad, I gave my New Mexican employers everything they needed on 31st Jan. as I understand it, they submitted all the documents and application on 8th Feb. However, on the Online check, it appears the application was only officially registered on 15th Feb.
         I have been advised by the Mexican Consulate in London that this process with the INM will take, quote, “No More than 20 days”.
         Today is the 20th day.
     • Holly Alana says:

       May 23, 2015 at 5:21 am

       Hi Chris,

       I am also from the UK, waiting for my visa approval (impatiently – I can’t wait to leave!)

       Are you in Mexico now? If possible, would really appreciate some more info on the procedure and how it all turned out! I’m a bit confused by the out-of-date or Spanish information online (I’m not that good yet!)

       All the best,

       Holly

       Reply
153. aboomerabroad says:

     March 5, 2013 at 7:25 pm

     Chris, how long have you been waiting?

     Steve, how long is it taking these days for the work permits? I can fly into Mexico in early July to start at beginning of August. I’m debating whether it will be faster to deal with it along with the company in country and then fly out to pick it up as the school advises. However, I hate to go to all that extra expense and possibly miss the start of the semester at beginning of August.

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 5, 2013 at 9:43 pm

       People in locations around Mexico report 4 to 6 weeks total for the INM processes, except for Q. Roo, which is taking much longer.
       steve

       Reply
154. Jennifer Hill says:

     March 7, 2013 at 4:25 pm

     Hi Steve, Thanks.
     A clarification since I wasn’t so clear: what is the difference between Visa de Residente Permanente vs. Residente Permanente Card for example. Why is one a card and one a visa? Thanks!

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 7, 2013 at 8:16 pm

       Hi Jennifer,
       Please re-read the previous answer.

       The Residency Card is what you apply for to stay in Mexico. The visa is a one-time usage permit to allow you to enter Mexico for the specific purpose of finishing your Residency Card application process. SRE/Consulates issue visas. SEGOB/INM issues residency cards. Different organizations with different permits, used for different purposes.
       steve

       Reply
155. Marilyn Britton says:

     March 7, 2013 at 4:33 pm

     Hi Jennifer. Hope i give you the right info. have been trying to work through this myself.

     Basically, all permits are called tarjetas or “cards”. None are visas. If you have been here for more than 4 years, you will be placed into “residente permanente” status. If not, you are placed into “residente temporal”: which after 3 or 4 years you will automatically be placed into the other.

     With NONE of the above are you allowed to have a car imported from the US. ONLY with the tourist visa at the border (good for 180 days) OR with a tarjeta temporal ONLY AVAILABLE in the US (or other country) will you be allowed to “import temporarily” a car with foreign license plates.

     Basically, you don’t have much choice. Hope that helps. I’m just going thro this myself—what a headache. best—m

     Reply
     • yucalandia says:

       March 7, 2013 at 8:32 pm

       Hi Marilyn,
       We much appreciate your information, but it really is not quite accurate and is modestly misleading. Please reread our prior reply, and the other latest reply if you want to understand how these things work (or feel free to ignore the whole Consulate visa vs. INM permit issue, and continue with your current successful approach to getting a residency card – since you do not need a visa to do this).

       e.g. Tourist visas are only issued to residents of countries who have no immigration treaty with Mexico (like Belarus).** Residents of these countries must be approved in advance to enter Mexico (by SRE/Consulates), or they are immediately shipped out of Mexico. In contrast: the USA and Canada have immigration treaties with Mexico, so American and Canadian citizens can simply drive or fly to Mexico, and they are automatically granted visitors permits by INM/SEGOB.
       Happy Trails,
       steve

       **Check out http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php/page/Paises_Visa/en.html for a list of countries whose citizens must apply for an entry visa before coming to visit Mexico.

       Reply
156. Mike Nault says:

     March 8, 2013 at 10:35 am

     We arrived in Mexico on January 16,2013 under our FM3 Visas. Those visas were scheduled to expire January 21, at which time we were going to go through the annual renewal process. We were advised that under the new Immigration Law we HAD to apply for Permanente since we were no longer qualified for the “Temporal ” status, due to having had our FM3s for 4 years. So, we now have Permanente cards. Little did we know that we therefore cannot keep our foreign plated vehicle in Mexico with that card, AND THAT WE CANNOT BE OUT OF THE COUNTRY FOR MORE THAN 6 MONTHS!!!! We own a home in Mexico but are only there 8 weeks a year. Can we revert from Permanente back to Residente Temporal so we can keep our foreign plated car in Mexico and avoid the 180 out of country limitation? Mike

     Reply
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